The KJV or King James Bible is The most accurately translated Bible. The NIV and others have changed many words to be "easier understood." They use more common and modern language. One must also understand that, in translation, different languages may not share the same words. Therefore, the most accurate and appropriate words were used during translation.
I urge you to do some research on Google about how the KJV and 1611 came to translation so you will have a better understanding! I did the same and without any doubt prefer the King James over any other.
Thanks Rob - I see where you're coming from. I've tried my hardest to get you to give some explanation to some of these other verses that speak more of Jesus, God's Son, but you have refrained & instead gave me the answer: "There are those that are ever learning but not able to come to the truth." Well, we are ever learning but we do have Truth, & increasing we trust, to hold onto, but it would be awful to be in a position of rejecting other Scriptures so that a particular belief can be supported. I won't bother you again - thank you for your time Rob. Blessings.
That's an interesting explanation you've given: "No matter what other scriptures you may read you can not change this truth or alter it. It's unchangeable just like God is unchangeable. So you use the light of this truth to understand more truth. If you add to the truth it becomes a lie."
So we have Mt 14:33, "Of a truth thou art the Son of God." And Luke 1:32, "be called the Son of the Highest."
According to your understanding, using these verses to the exclusion of any other verse that could add to the understanding that Jesus is the Christ, the One born of God & called the Son of God, we would have to overlook portions such as John 1:1-14 as 'secondary' & unworthy for inclusion into the primary meaning & understanding of Jesus Christ. So if you consider the John 1 portion as changing or altering the Truth about the Son of God, then how do you arrive at that conclusion? And if it indeed does so, & we thereby do disservice to the Word by including it with God's Son, then I ask, what do we actually do with such Scriptures? Could this Word of God, both very God & with God & then becoming flesh to dwell on the Earth, not actually pertain to Jesus? Then to whom & how are we to read this & understand this? I've tried looking at with all the possibilities I can, but still it hits me as I read it. Even if I don't understand how this can happen, do I have to conclude that this portion has some other meaning?
Using your Romans 6:23 example: "For the wages of sin is death" as all we need to know about this Truth. So if I then read Isaiah 59:2, telling me that my iniquities have separated me from God only, but not consigned me to death, I would be perplexed.
Or Mark 9:43-47: for me to escape hell fire for my sins, all I have to do is to remove my hand or eye or foot that consigns me to hell. Rather, to help me understand further that my sins result in death (both physically & spiritually), it helps to know that I'm separated & also to deal with the trigger for my sin.
One explanation for how to read the scriptures is like this .
If you truly hear and understand a truth like ( the wages of sin is death ) for example . Then it's absolutely unchanging. Gods word endures for ever never changes Just like God never changes .
So no matter what other scriptures you may read you can not change this truth or alter it . It's unchangeable just like God is unchangeable .
So you use the light of this truth to understand more truth . If you add to the truth it becomes a lie . That's how Satan works he says hath God said ? And adds more to what God clearly said .
Often I see people changing truth , because they never heard it correctly to begin with .
Jesus said to him that hears shall be given more .
It's all about having ears to hear what God says .
This is child like faith in trusting the word of God because Gods understanding is in searchable and infinite. The spirit of truth is spiritual , and wicked people will never understand.
The real issue today is all the false doctrines and interpretations that have had many years to deceive people
One of my most earnest prayers have been don't let me be deceived, as Jesus said in Matthew 24 , beware lest any man deceive you . I do believe what he said . I'm not deceived ether . He answers my prayers .
Rob, just to accept that "Jesus was Born of God" would be fine for all of us, except for the fact that we still have to deal with the other Scriptures that also expand on this. Are we then interpreting those 'other Scriptures' incorrectly, or maybe they shouldn't even be there, is what we're suggesting? And how do you deal with them? How do you interpret them. If I focus only on Jesus' Birth as a fresh creation of God, albeit from a special, holy Seed, I still have to, as an extensive Bible reader & believer, deal with these other Scriptures. If I choose not to do so, then I would be living in a bubble of my own doing. If I want to understand a teaching from the Word, I endeavour to consider all Scriptures pertaining to it & then establish its meaning (of course, the proper "dividing of the Scriptures" is essential). I don't come the other way: first decide what a doctrine or teaching should mean & then find the Scriptures to support my belief. To me, this leads to error & then often, to multiple errors.
The classic one is on God's election of mankind to salvation. As you know, there are some views on this, all supposedly based on Scripture. The bottom line is, what basis does God use to grant salvation to one person & not another. Should we all then adopt the hyper-Calvinistic approach & leave the matter with God & not preach the Gospel since the one elected to salvation will come to Him regardless of any effort from us? Or is there another answer when we search the Scriptures? There may be nothing conclusive to be found, but a determination is made based on what we learn, & so the Gospel is still preached so that all men (both elected or not) may hear & decide. God does not tell us that in His foreknowledge He makes his determination & we may never conclusively say it is so, except we might use what Peter concludes in 1 Peter 1:2. Now, is that sufficient for us to rest our understanding on, or do we disregard it since it did not come from the "Mouth of God"?
Chris the very simple explanation for the Godliness Of Christ is ; he was Born of God . Yes God is infinite and he comes from God by Birth . So he has qualities that came from God that no
Man ever had . You must except Gods witness. And not add to it . If we do not hear the word of God correctly we are open to a sea of interpretations , yet only one truth is all the there ever will be . Gods .
There is a famine in the land and it's the hearing of the word of God . So many false interpretations is what I see .
Dark days indeed we are in .
I thank God very much the the Word is open to me , we only get it by obeying what we know , or the light starts going out .
Rob, I doubt if any one would disagree with you about the Sonship of Jesus & even how He sometimes referred to Himself, as the Son of man. And you are well aware of where we differ in this matter by the Scriptures we've cited.
The essential point is that, in the volume of Scriptures you quote to support the idea that Jesus was a specially created Being by God & not coming out of the Essence of God to be a man, what do you, as a student of God's Word, do with the other Scriptures as we have given you, to show otherwise?
I knew someone, not a believer but an ardent reader of the Bible. He knew & believed that God was a God of Love but just could not understand why false writings were put into the Bible showing God sending Israel out to the Promised Land to utterly kill every living thing there. He just could not reconcile God 'instigating & encouraging murder'. So he carefully proceeded to rip out those 'erroneous' pages from the Bible so that his further reading of it would be in line to his understanding of the Doctrine of God. I'm certainly not suggesting that you have done as such - I think much better things of you - but your reservation to explain away these Scriptures we bring to you to show the Divinity of Christ, both pre & post incarnation, is notable.
You can certainly keep on writing that Jesus is only God's Son revealed on Earth & nothing before this, but one would have to wonder what you are doing to those other Scriptures that show otherwise. Do you re-interpret them, avoid them, obliterate them, etc.? In love & concern, we long to learn from where you get your ideas from - & I'm assuming that you're not a JW (as I would approach this discussion differently). If your ideas come from reading the Word, the same one we all read from, then what happens to the other Scriptures that also give us an added view of the pre-incarnate existence of Christ? This is unavoidable - we are constrained to deal with them as the Word of God.
Rob, I'm not sure which version of the Bible you use but have a read of John 10:32-38 again, just to clarify what blasphemy is & what Jesus was accused of being.
And when you get to verse 36, consider, "of whom (Jesus) the Father hath sanctified & SENT into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?" So, if one needs to be a stickler on the definition of Son of God as being a Son from birth only & not 'out of God's Being', another can then correctly say that Jesus was SENT into the world; why should Jesus use the word 'sent' as if He came from somewhere to go somewhere? Wouldn't it be more correct then to say, 'The Father hath specially created me to be born at Bethlehem & gave me a special ministry & finally to given my life for the world'?
And while we're examining the Scriptures, what about John 8:56-58? Abraham rejoicing to see "his day"! Are you so mad to say that you've seen Abraham? the Jews retorted. "Even before Abraham existed, I AM". Again, notice Jesus' choice of words to describe Himself.
And Colossians 1:15-17? "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him". That whole passage cited, is speaking of Jesus, not God.
Do even these few portions of Scripture cause us to think that we have here, Someone Who is more than a separate creation born into the world to fulfil God's Plans. Someone who was involved in the creation of all things, visible & invisible, One existing before Abraham & One even sent by God from somewhere to somewhere (the World)? I know that you are well aware of these Scriptures, but I remain perplexed as to how some other interpretation can be given other than understood as read.
Thank you for you reply. To respond to your comments:
You ask where in the Bible does it say Jesus Christ is the name of the Father. The answer is: (directly) Isaiah 9:6 - He (Christ) shall be called the Father /// (indirectly) Acts 2:38 - Jesus Christ said to baptize in the name of the Father; the apostles baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.
You quote 1John5:7. With all due respect, if you look it up, you will find that that verse was not in the Bible originally. The apostle John did not write it. Rather it was an addition by someone else around the year 1500.
You quote John 10:30, John 1:1, John 1:14: The spirit in Jesus is God. So of course Jesus can say that the Father and I are one. When a man says "I know", is it the body that knows? No, it is the spirit in the man that knows. Jesus Christ and God are one Spirit. /// The Word which was with God and became flesh is the Christ (a Spirit). Not the baby born in Bethlehem, but the Spirit inside that body.
You ask if Jesus prayed to Himself: That is absurd. The body called Jesus prayed to His Father whose Spirit was dwelling in Jesus just like it dwells in all sons and daughters of God.
You speak about Christians believing literally what the Bible says: This is NOT true. Think about things like female Christians cutting off their hair. Christians taking the Lord's Supper in the morning. Taking leavened bread instead of unleavened. Using juice instead of wine. Think about Christians not doing footwashing. Think about Christians saying it is okay to be gay. Saying it is okay for a woman to be a preacher. God have mercy upon us all.
Lastly, you ask about my motive: That is probably the hardest of your comments to respond to... To see if someone will be able to accept it.
Jesus said he is the Son OF God and was accused of Blasphemy for saying that .
Jesus never said I AM GOD you people can not enter into just what the Son of God means ! Are you really that blind ?
Jesus was Born OF God . He had unique wisdom , relationship and power from God that no man ever had , John the Baptist the greatest of all prophets stated he was not worthy to loose his shoes .
Many said that the things Jesus did proved that God was with him !
So true how do you miss this ?
They never said oh He is GOD and Jesus never said that either, nor anywhere in the Bible .
Why even God never said this Jesus is me when God spoke at his baptism, So if Jesus really is GOD then the voice from heaven lied .
Do you not see how crazy this claim is that Jesus is part of a Godhead ?
These are just a few examples of so many more that could be said .
I'm not sure what your motive is for coming to a Christian Bible website and calling something that most Christians believe in a 'falsehood'. Where is your proof that what you're saying isn't a falsehood?
The reason people believe that the Father, the Son (the Word, or Jesus), and Holy Spirit are one is that the Bible literally says that in 1 John 5:7. If you hover over the links you'll see it.
So, since the Bible already says that, the real question is why don't you believe the Bible verse 1 John 5:7?
If you're looking for other Bible verses that support that, here they are: John 10:30, John 1:1, John 1:14 (The Word is Jesus Christ)
It shouldn't be too much of a surprise when Christians believe literally what the Bible says, so if you don't that means you must have a different interpretation of it, right? Of course most do not interpret it the way you do.
You wrote: "Jesus Christ is the name of God the father"
I'd like to ask what Bible verses do you believe supports that idea and where does it come from? Jesus is the same God, but a separate being/entity than God the Father. If He was exactly identical then the Bible would not have separated them into 3 entities/personalities or called them separate names, and wouldn't have given the verses it did. Since Jesus prayed to God the Father, is it logical that Jesus was praying to Himself? Matthew 26:39 - He said 'let this cup pass from me... not as I will, but thou wilt." This verse refutes your claim that they are both Jesus Christ. Would any of Jesus's prayers make sense of He was praying to Himself?
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Colossians 2:9
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
The Godhead speaking to each other, in Scripture:
Genesis 1:26, Genesis 3:22, Genesis 11:7
1 John 5:7, Book of John 10:30
Acts 17:27-30
The Godhead represents The Father, The Son of God, the Holy Spirit.
Comment: many people argue on this and this is a case of: Let God be true and every man a liar. Don't twist scriptures to validate your theories.
Jesus left heaven to come to earth and His name was the Son of man: fully God and fully human. He set aside his power to begin life as a baby, child and at age 30 he began his mission: to teach, make disciples, heal the sick, cleanse the leper's, cast out demons, doing good.
He was put on trial for blasphemy: saying he and His Father are ONE. He was judged and ordered to be crucified. He even saved one of the thieves he was crucified next to. Buried 3 days and then He walked out of the tomb! Many people went on record having seen him walking around after resurrection. It's recorded in the Bible and human history books. His ascension back into heaven was eye witnessed. Later, Jesus knocked Paul off his horse, blinded him but other people there HEARD an audible voice speak to Paul. It was Jesus!
Flash back to Pentecost: the Holy Spirit of God appears in the Upper Room as a roaring Wind and everyone receives His Baptism! It spills out into the street and everyone is hearing their own languages spoken! Many people were saved that day. He is spirit, so he is invisible; but unmistakably present in our world. He reveals Jesus to common people every day.
Life is EXCITING! Why would anyone turn down so great a salvation? Copy this down & preach it to family and friends.
Advise to Single Christian MinistersMishael - In Reply on Revelation 12 - 4 years ago
Being Alone and Isolated
Satans best tool against anybody, saved or unsaved, is ISOLATION. You are vulnerable because of it.
The Humility of Jesus is shown in how he cared for people who came to Him for help. It was spiritual and practical.
There are many, many ministries who could use an extra pair of hands, and a friendly smile.
You aren't going to have a husband ring the doorbell. You need to make some calls; call your church for advise. Be VISABLE. Try to break out of solitude, doing one of these following ministries:
Feeding ministries (packing or distributing
Benevolence (Clothing,toys,shoes)
Collecting coats for Kids
Helping with blue or brown Santa
Writing out Holiday greeting cards for shut-in's or elderly
Your local civic organizations (paint scenery for Christmas plays, find costumes, etc
Help Habitat for Humanity
A Christian man may be out in the midst of all that: being his kind and caring self. As long as you're isolated you will not be in range of meeting. (Mission accomplished by Satans crummy helpers.) Conversation in public only.
If your church doesn't do these kind of things; find a church with a big singles ministry. No rule says you can't visit other singles ministries and attend your regular church.
John 10:10
"The thief (satan) cometh not, but for to steal (your joy and peace), and to kill (your faith that God loves you), and to destroy (you! Piece by piece). I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly (Jesus)."
You have to fight back like a warrior, Ephesians 6.
Amos 3:3
Can two walk together, except they be agreed? {Pray to receive a life partner, or spouse.}. This doesn't work unless you feed your faith. Have an inner attitude of praise and worship towards God. Participate in life outside of your house.
Refuse violently when demons of doubt come to shred your faith. Eph.6
You need to print this out or copy. Tape it to the back of your closet door.
Re: Adam's first sinless state. Again, allowing your comment: "Yes, excepting Adam and Eve were created sinless and I had to gain sinless life via repentance to be saved and then later to be sanctified to be rid of the inherited sin passed on from Adam's fallen state." I agree, the corruption that came to you (& me) because of sin has remained with us, but your claim to now be sinless (= no inherited sin) through sanctification, tells me that all corruption has now been removed from you, or else you can't be sinless. However, once corrupt, the flesh remains in that condition (death being its final proof) in spite of a miraculous spiritual renewal by God. If God through His Son's Sacrifice would also remove that corruption, then you would be like Adam pre-fall & never fall ill, be diseased or die - it's impossible, as it would destroy the whole meaning of being incorruptible. Both Adam & Jesus could not die naturally, whether by disease or old age. Adam eventually did die because he was a sinner with a corrupt nature - Jesus did die because He was sinless but chose to surrender His Life: John 10:18, "No man taketh it (My Life) from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father."
The one who is sinless, has no corrupt nature & therefore can never die, as death is the final product of sin, which sin you aren't in possession of, as you believe.
Scriptures of the GodheadFatherSonHoly Spirit - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 4 years ago
Acts 17
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the GODHEAD is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
THE GODHEAD SCRIPTURES
Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7
1 John 5:7.
John 10:30, I and My Father are one.
My favorite is Malachi 3:16-17. God listens when we talk together about Him.
Also, in these following scriptures , we clearly see the Godhead ( Acts 17:27-30) speaking to each other.
NOTE: In the King James Bible, the words , TRINITY and TRIUNE, ARE NOT used. Someone who was unable to teach LET US as a lesson, used these other words to describe, 'Three.'
If we used the Search Box provided on this website you would have seen it come up with No scriptures for Triune and Trinity. In the King James Bible the scriptures are what your search will fetch.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the GODHEAD is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
THE GODHEAD SCRIPTURES
Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7
1 John 5:7.
John 10:30, I and My Father are one.
Also, in these following scriptures , we clearly see the Godhead ( Acts 17:27-30) speaking to each other.
NOTE: In the King James Bible, the words , TRINITY and TRIUNE,
ARE NOT used. Someone who was unable to teach LET US as a lesson, used these other words to describe, 'Three.'
If we used the Search Box provided on this website you would have seen it came up with NOTHING for triune and Trinity.
Father God is spirit
The Holy Spirit is spirit
Jesus is called, Son of Man. He is all God and all man. God in the flesh: so He could be the Lamb of God and save us from our sins.
Note these in your Bible. It comes up quite a lot.
4. INTIMIDATION and MANIPULATION between you and your seat in (person's name)
I now take the Sword of the Spirit and I sever this cord of domination, intimidation and manipulation, in the Almighty name of Jesus! It is written in:
John 10:2-5: "But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. The watchman opens the door for this man, and the sheep listen to his voice and heed it; and he calls his own sheep by name and brings them out. When he has brought his own sheep outside, he walks on before them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice. They will never follow a stranger, but will run away from him because they do not know the voice of strangers or recognize their call."
5. I now address you, Jezebel in the spiritual realm, and I declare that I recognize that cord of FALSE RELIGION between you and your seat in my life or in___________life.
I now take the Sword of the Spirit and I sever this cord of false religion in the Almighty name of Jesus! It is written in:
"God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth." ( John 4:24)
Father, in the name of Jesus Christ Your Son, I now declare:
A divorce with the spirit of Jezebel
A cancellation of all worship she ever received through me, my ancestors or descendants
Nullification of any and every covenant ever made with her
Renunciation of the Ahab spirit
In the authority of the mame of Jesus Christ, I now take this seat in myself and hand it over to the Kingdom of God.
Father, in Jesus name I ask that You will remove the following curses and results due to my ancestors' and my own involvement with this Jezebel spirit's activities:
why do the commentary notes of 1599 Geneva Bible refer to 1 Macc 4:59 in reference to John 10:22, but Macc is not a book available in this Bible or the KJV ?
And the sheep follow him: for they know His voice ( John 10:4).
And other sheep I have, which are not of this folds: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd ( John 10:16).
I urge you to do some research on Google about how the KJV and 1611 came to translation so you will have a better understanding! I did the same and without any doubt prefer the King James over any other.
Hope that helps to answer your question.
which means god with us. isaiah 7-14. isaiah 9-6 for unto you
a child is born unto you a son is given and the government
shall be upon his shoulder;and his name shall be called wonderful
counselor the mighty god the everlasting father the prince of
prince. he is god rob you have been deceived sir, john 20-27-28
doubting thomas reached out and said to jesus my lord and my
god, so i guess thomas was wrong, you have been decived by some
cult. john 10-30 i and my father are one. then they wanted to stone
my lord jesus, please tell me why?i know because he said he was
god equilto the godhead, you have been deceived rob. one more
steven being stoned. knelt down saying lord jesus receive my
spirit acts 7-59 i leave you with this every jnee shall bow and every
tongue will confess jesus christ as lord, or hell will be your ruin
you probably do not even believe in a literal hell but it is real.
i beg you to repent from your error it is a fearful thing to fall
in the hands of an angry god. heb 10-31
There are those that are ever learning but not able to come to the truth .
What is the truth ? Exactly what God said . How simple can it be ? You hear it believe it receive it , keep it . Amen .
So we have Mt 14:33, "Of a truth thou art the Son of God." And Luke 1:32, "be called the Son of the Highest."
According to your understanding, using these verses to the exclusion of any other verse that could add to the understanding that Jesus is the Christ, the One born of God & called the Son of God, we would have to overlook portions such as John 1:1-14 as 'secondary' & unworthy for inclusion into the primary meaning & understanding of Jesus Christ. So if you consider the John 1 portion as changing or altering the Truth about the Son of God, then how do you arrive at that conclusion? And if it indeed does so, & we thereby do disservice to the Word by including it with God's Son, then I ask, what do we actually do with such Scriptures? Could this Word of God, both very God & with God & then becoming flesh to dwell on the Earth, not actually pertain to Jesus? Then to whom & how are we to read this & understand this? I've tried looking at with all the possibilities I can, but still it hits me as I read it. Even if I don't understand how this can happen, do I have to conclude that this portion has some other meaning?
Using your Romans 6:23 example: "For the wages of sin is death" as all we need to know about this Truth. So if I then read Isaiah 59:2, telling me that my iniquities have separated me from God only, but not consigned me to death, I would be perplexed.
Or Mark 9:43-47: for me to escape hell fire for my sins, all I have to do is to remove my hand or eye or foot that consigns me to hell. Rather, to help me understand further that my sins result in death (both physically & spiritually), it helps to know that I'm separated & also to deal with the trigger for my sin.
Read 1 John ch 4 and 5 very carefully and you will learn why I dis agree with you .
1john 4 v 15 is enough in its self but so much more !
If you truly hear and understand a truth like ( the wages of sin is death ) for example . Then it's absolutely unchanging. Gods word endures for ever never changes Just like God never changes .
So no matter what other scriptures you may read you can not change this truth or alter it . It's unchangeable just like God is unchangeable .
So you use the light of this truth to understand more truth . If you add to the truth it becomes a lie . That's how Satan works he says hath God said ? And adds more to what God clearly said .
Often I see people changing truth , because they never heard it correctly to begin with .
Jesus said to him that hears shall be given more .
It's all about having ears to hear what God says .
This is child like faith in trusting the word of God because Gods understanding is in searchable and infinite. The spirit of truth is spiritual , and wicked people will never understand.
The real issue today is all the false doctrines and interpretations that have had many years to deceive people
One of my most earnest prayers have been don't let me be deceived, as Jesus said in Matthew 24 , beware lest any man deceive you . I do believe what he said . I'm not deceived ether . He answers my prayers .
that in him we may have the righteous of god, jesus was conceived
of the holy spirit therefore he did not have a sinners birth , the holy
spirit inpregnated mary to have a sinless untainted blood spotless
lord jesus christ , jesus chrsit was always god maifested justifed
in the spirit preached unto gentiles believed on in the world and received
up into glory. 1st tim3-16. john 1 in the beginning was the word and the word
was with god and the word was god. colossians 2-9 in him dwelleth all the fullness
of the godhead bodily. jesus is god and always was god from the beginning of creation
hell awaits the sinner denying his deity, i can give countless more scriptures the virgin
born son of god. jesus chrsit is lord king of kings and lord of lords.
The classic one is on God's election of mankind to salvation. As you know, there are some views on this, all supposedly based on Scripture. The bottom line is, what basis does God use to grant salvation to one person & not another. Should we all then adopt the hyper-Calvinistic approach & leave the matter with God & not preach the Gospel since the one elected to salvation will come to Him regardless of any effort from us? Or is there another answer when we search the Scriptures? There may be nothing conclusive to be found, but a determination is made based on what we learn, & so the Gospel is still preached so that all men (both elected or not) may hear & decide. God does not tell us that in His foreknowledge He makes his determination & we may never conclusively say it is so, except we might use what Peter concludes in 1 Peter 1:2. Now, is that sufficient for us to rest our understanding on, or do we disregard it since it did not come from the "Mouth of God"?
Man ever had . You must except Gods witness. And not add to it . If we do not hear the word of God correctly we are open to a sea of interpretations , yet only one truth is all the there ever will be . Gods .
There is a famine in the land and it's the hearing of the word of God . So many false interpretations is what I see .
Dark days indeed we are in .
I thank God very much the the Word is open to me , we only get it by obeying what we know , or the light starts going out .
The essential point is that, in the volume of Scriptures you quote to support the idea that Jesus was a specially created Being by God & not coming out of the Essence of God to be a man, what do you, as a student of God's Word, do with the other Scriptures as we have given you, to show otherwise?
I knew someone, not a believer but an ardent reader of the Bible. He knew & believed that God was a God of Love but just could not understand why false writings were put into the Bible showing God sending Israel out to the Promised Land to utterly kill every living thing there. He just could not reconcile God 'instigating & encouraging murder'. So he carefully proceeded to rip out those 'erroneous' pages from the Bible so that his further reading of it would be in line to his understanding of the Doctrine of God. I'm certainly not suggesting that you have done as such - I think much better things of you - but your reservation to explain away these Scriptures we bring to you to show the Divinity of Christ, both pre & post incarnation, is notable.
You can certainly keep on writing that Jesus is only God's Son revealed on Earth & nothing before this, but one would have to wonder what you are doing to those other Scriptures that show otherwise. Do you re-interpret them, avoid them, obliterate them, etc.? In love & concern, we long to learn from where you get your ideas from - & I'm assuming that you're not a JW (as I would approach this discussion differently). If your ideas come from reading the Word, the same one we all read from, then what happens to the other Scriptures that also give us an added view of the pre-incarnate existence of Christ? This is unavoidable - we are constrained to deal with them as the Word of God.
First of His kind ever.
BORN OF GOD . Able do and things and know things that no other man could ever do with such authority.
Why ? Because God was with him .
He never claimed to be or say IAM God . He said that the father whom he prayed to was greater ....
Simple to me but the spirit of error keeps people in the dark , because they can not see the truth of Gods word .
Satan blinds the minds of men and does he ever .
If you seek me with your whole heart then you will find me , God said to those in days gone by , but it still holds true for today .
And when you get to verse 36, consider, "of whom (Jesus) the Father hath sanctified & SENT into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?" So, if one needs to be a stickler on the definition of Son of God as being a Son from birth only & not 'out of God's Being', another can then correctly say that Jesus was SENT into the world; why should Jesus use the word 'sent' as if He came from somewhere to go somewhere? Wouldn't it be more correct then to say, 'The Father hath specially created me to be born at Bethlehem & gave me a special ministry & finally to given my life for the world'?
And while we're examining the Scriptures, what about John 8:56-58? Abraham rejoicing to see "his day"! Are you so mad to say that you've seen Abraham? the Jews retorted. "Even before Abraham existed, I AM". Again, notice Jesus' choice of words to describe Himself.
And Colossians 1:15-17? "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him". That whole passage cited, is speaking of Jesus, not God.
Do even these few portions of Scripture cause us to think that we have here, Someone Who is more than a separate creation born into the world to fulfil God's Plans. Someone who was involved in the creation of all things, visible & invisible, One existing before Abraham & One even sent by God from somewhere to somewhere (the World)? I know that you are well aware of these Scriptures, but I remain perplexed as to how some other interpretation can be given other than understood as read.
Thank you for you reply. To respond to your comments:
You ask where in the Bible does it say Jesus Christ is the name of the Father. The answer is: (directly) Isaiah 9:6 - He (Christ) shall be called the Father /// (indirectly) Acts 2:38 - Jesus Christ said to baptize in the name of the Father; the apostles baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.
You quote 1John5:7. With all due respect, if you look it up, you will find that that verse was not in the Bible originally. The apostle John did not write it. Rather it was an addition by someone else around the year 1500.
You quote John 10:30, John 1:1, John 1:14: The spirit in Jesus is God. So of course Jesus can say that the Father and I are one. When a man says "I know", is it the body that knows? No, it is the spirit in the man that knows. Jesus Christ and God are one Spirit. /// The Word which was with God and became flesh is the Christ (a Spirit). Not the baby born in Bethlehem, but the Spirit inside that body.
You ask if Jesus prayed to Himself: That is absurd. The body called Jesus prayed to His Father whose Spirit was dwelling in Jesus just like it dwells in all sons and daughters of God.
You speak about Christians believing literally what the Bible says: This is NOT true. Think about things like female Christians cutting off their hair. Christians taking the Lord's Supper in the morning. Taking leavened bread instead of unleavened. Using juice instead of wine. Think about Christians not doing footwashing. Think about Christians saying it is okay to be gay. Saying it is okay for a woman to be a preacher. God have mercy upon us all.
Lastly, you ask about my motive: That is probably the hardest of your comments to respond to... To see if someone will be able to accept it.
Peace & Love in Christ
Jesus never said I AM GOD you people can not enter into just what the Son of God means ! Are you really that blind ?
Jesus was Born OF God . He had unique wisdom , relationship and power from God that no man ever had , John the Baptist the greatest of all prophets stated he was not worthy to loose his shoes .
Many said that the things Jesus did proved that God was with him !
So true how do you miss this ?
They never said oh He is GOD and Jesus never said that either, nor anywhere in the Bible .
Why even God never said this Jesus is me when God spoke at his baptism, So if Jesus really is GOD then the voice from heaven lied .
Do you not see how crazy this claim is that Jesus is part of a Godhead ?
These are just a few examples of so many more that could be said .
I'm not sure what your motive is for coming to a Christian Bible website and calling something that most Christians believe in a 'falsehood'. Where is your proof that what you're saying isn't a falsehood?
The reason people believe that the Father, the Son (the Word, or Jesus), and Holy Spirit are one is that the Bible literally says that in 1 John 5:7. If you hover over the links you'll see it.
So, since the Bible already says that, the real question is why don't you believe the Bible verse 1 John 5:7?
If you're looking for other Bible verses that support that, here they are: John 10:30, John 1:1, John 1:14 (The Word is Jesus Christ)
It shouldn't be too much of a surprise when Christians believe literally what the Bible says, so if you don't that means you must have a different interpretation of it, right? Of course most do not interpret it the way you do.
You wrote: "Jesus Christ is the name of God the father"
I'd like to ask what Bible verses do you believe supports that idea and where does it come from? Jesus is the same God, but a separate being/entity than God the Father. If He was exactly identical then the Bible would not have separated them into 3 entities/personalities or called them separate names, and wouldn't have given the verses it did. Since Jesus prayed to God the Father, is it logical that Jesus was praying to Himself? Matthew 26:39 - He said 'let this cup pass from me... not as I will, but thou wilt." This verse refutes your claim that they are both Jesus Christ. Would any of Jesus's prayers make sense of He was praying to Himself?
God bless...
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Colossians 2:9
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
The Godhead speaking to each other, in Scripture:
Genesis 1:26, Genesis 3:22, Genesis 11:7
1 John 5:7, Book of John 10:30
Acts 17:27-30
The Godhead represents The Father, The Son of God, the Holy Spirit.
Comment: many people argue on this and this is a case of: Let God be true and every man a liar. Don't twist scriptures to validate your theories.
Jesus left heaven to come to earth and His name was the Son of man: fully God and fully human. He set aside his power to begin life as a baby, child and at age 30 he began his mission: to teach, make disciples, heal the sick, cleanse the leper's, cast out demons, doing good.
He was put on trial for blasphemy: saying he and His Father are ONE. He was judged and ordered to be crucified. He even saved one of the thieves he was crucified next to. Buried 3 days and then He walked out of the tomb! Many people went on record having seen him walking around after resurrection. It's recorded in the Bible and human history books. His ascension back into heaven was eye witnessed. Later, Jesus knocked Paul off his horse, blinded him but other people there HEARD an audible voice speak to Paul. It was Jesus!
Flash back to Pentecost: the Holy Spirit of God appears in the Upper Room as a roaring Wind and everyone receives His Baptism! It spills out into the street and everyone is hearing their own languages spoken! Many people were saved that day. He is spirit, so he is invisible; but unmistakably present in our world. He reveals Jesus to common people every day.
Life is EXCITING! Why would anyone turn down so great a salvation? Copy this down & preach it to family and friends.
Stop procrastinating!
M.
Satans best tool against anybody, saved or unsaved, is ISOLATION. You are vulnerable because of it.
The Humility of Jesus is shown in how he cared for people who came to Him for help. It was spiritual and practical.
There are many, many ministries who could use an extra pair of hands, and a friendly smile.
You aren't going to have a husband ring the doorbell. You need to make some calls; call your church for advise. Be VISABLE. Try to break out of solitude, doing one of these following ministries:
Feeding ministries (packing or distributing
Benevolence (Clothing,toys,shoes)
Collecting coats for Kids
Helping with blue or brown Santa
Writing out Holiday greeting cards for shut-in's or elderly
Your local civic organizations (paint scenery for Christmas plays, find costumes, etc
Help Habitat for Humanity
A Christian man may be out in the midst of all that: being his kind and caring self. As long as you're isolated you will not be in range of meeting. (Mission accomplished by Satans crummy helpers.) Conversation in public only.
If your church doesn't do these kind of things; find a church with a big singles ministry. No rule says you can't visit other singles ministries and attend your regular church.
John 10:10
"The thief (satan) cometh not, but for to steal (your joy and peace), and to kill (your faith that God loves you), and to destroy (you! Piece by piece). I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly (Jesus)."
You have to fight back like a warrior, Ephesians 6.
Amos 3:3
Can two walk together, except they be agreed? {Pray to receive a life partner, or spouse.}. This doesn't work unless you feed your faith. Have an inner attitude of praise and worship towards God. Participate in life outside of your house.
Refuse violently when demons of doubt come to shred your faith. Eph.6
You need to print this out or copy. Tape it to the back of your closet door.
Re: Adam's first sinless state. Again, allowing your comment: "Yes, excepting Adam and Eve were created sinless and I had to gain sinless life via repentance to be saved and then later to be sanctified to be rid of the inherited sin passed on from Adam's fallen state." I agree, the corruption that came to you (& me) because of sin has remained with us, but your claim to now be sinless (= no inherited sin) through sanctification, tells me that all corruption has now been removed from you, or else you can't be sinless. However, once corrupt, the flesh remains in that condition (death being its final proof) in spite of a miraculous spiritual renewal by God. If God through His Son's Sacrifice would also remove that corruption, then you would be like Adam pre-fall & never fall ill, be diseased or die - it's impossible, as it would destroy the whole meaning of being incorruptible. Both Adam & Jesus could not die naturally, whether by disease or old age. Adam eventually did die because he was a sinner with a corrupt nature - Jesus did die because He was sinless but chose to surrender His Life: John 10:18, "No man taketh it (My Life) from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father."
The one who is sinless, has no corrupt nature & therefore can never die, as death is the final product of sin, which sin you aren't in possession of, as you believe.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the GODHEAD is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
THE GODHEAD SCRIPTURES
Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7
1 John 5:7.
John 10:30, I and My Father are one.
My favorite is Malachi 3:16-17. God listens when we talk together about Him.
Also, in these following scriptures , we clearly see the Godhead ( Acts 17:27-30) speaking to each other.
NOTE: In the King James Bible, the words , TRINITY and TRIUNE, ARE NOT used. Someone who was unable to teach LET US as a lesson, used these other words to describe, 'Three.'
If we used the Search Box provided on this website you would have seen it come up with No scriptures for Triune and Trinity. In the King James Bible the scriptures are what your search will fetch.
Mishael
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the GODHEAD is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
THE GODHEAD SCRIPTURES
Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7
1 John 5:7.
John 10:30, I and My Father are one.
Also, in these following scriptures , we clearly see the Godhead ( Acts 17:27-30) speaking to each other.
NOTE: In the King James Bible, the words , TRINITY and TRIUNE,
ARE NOT used. Someone who was unable to teach LET US as a lesson, used these other words to describe, 'Three.'
If we used the Search Box provided on this website you would have seen it came up with NOTHING for triune and Trinity.
Father God is spirit
The Holy Spirit is spirit
Jesus is called, Son of Man. He is all God and all man. God in the flesh: so He could be the Lamb of God and save us from our sins.
Note these in your Bible. It comes up quite a lot.
Mishael
I now take the Sword of the Spirit and I sever this cord of domination, intimidation and manipulation, in the Almighty name of Jesus! It is written in:
John 10:2-5: "But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. The watchman opens the door for this man, and the sheep listen to his voice and heed it; and he calls his own sheep by name and brings them out. When he has brought his own sheep outside, he walks on before them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice. They will never follow a stranger, but will run away from him because they do not know the voice of strangers or recognize their call."
5. I now address you, Jezebel in the spiritual realm, and I declare that I recognize that cord of FALSE RELIGION between you and your seat in my life or in___________life.
I now take the Sword of the Spirit and I sever this cord of false religion in the Almighty name of Jesus! It is written in:
"God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth." ( John 4:24)
Father, in the name of Jesus Christ Your Son, I now declare:
A divorce with the spirit of Jezebel
A cancellation of all worship she ever received through me, my ancestors or descendants
Nullification of any and every covenant ever made with her
Renunciation of the Ahab spirit
In the authority of the mame of Jesus Christ, I now take this seat in myself and hand it over to the Kingdom of God.
Father, in Jesus name I ask that You will remove the following curses and results due to my ancestors' and my own involvement with this Jezebel spirit's activities:
1. Curse of a bed of anguish and suffering
2. Downheartedness
3. Curse of the utmost judgement
4. Curse of death (Rev.2:22,23)
5. Curse of humiliation and nakedness
6. Curse of slavery
7. Curse of senility
8. Curse of homosexuality and lesbianism
John 1
Revelation
Psalm 22
Hebrews
John 10:30
Hopefully these are helpful in your studies
Luke
And the sheep follow him: for they know His voice ( John 10:4).
And other sheep I have, which are not of this folds: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd ( John 10:16).
Seek, and ye shall find ( Matthew 7:7).
In His Service.
Andy & Dianne van den Berg - Nova Scotia, Canada
Seek, and ye shall find ( Matthew 7:7).
In His Service.
Andy & Dianne van den Berg - Nova Scotia, Canada