The angels are sons of God, as was Adam ( Job 38:7; Luke 3:38), by creation; Christians are the sons of God by adoption ( Rom. 8:14, 15); but Christ is the Son of God by birth.
I believe you gave us a view of the trinity. Gen. 1:1.In the beginning "El-o-heem'" created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:2.And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the "SPIRIT OF GOD moved upon the face of the waters.
Gen 1:3. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Now I'm not sure if you're saying Jesus was created in verse 3 or not but we are sure it's not so according to these verses.
( ALL THINGS WERE MADE BY HIM; and without him was not any thing made that was made.)
In him was life; AND THE "LIFE WAS THE LIGHT OF MEN."
Colossians 1:16-17. For by him were all things created, that are in HEAVEN, and that are in earth, VISIBLE AND INVISIBLE, whether they be THROWNS, or DOMINIONS, or PRINCIPALITIES, or POWERS: (all things were created by him, and for him:)
And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
"Point here is we see Angels created here as well!!
And in Job 38:4-7. The Angels shouted for joy when Jesus created the Earth.
"Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
John 17:5. And now, O Father, glorify thou me WITH THINE OWN SELF with the glory which I had with thee BEFORE THE WORLD WAS.
Now we know he didn't come in the 4th Day!
Gen 1:16. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. THE SUN. "Also created!" You see a contrast of that light and the light of Jesus in
Revelation 21:23. and Revelation 22:5.
Revelation 3:14. Means in the sense Jesus is the origin and source of Gods creation. Colossians 1:15-18. and head of the new creation. 2 Corinthians 5:17.
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven( Job 38:4-7 4Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. 5Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? 6Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; 7When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?) and the earth. ( Isaiah 14:12-14 12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.) What I put in parentheses are the the other scriptures that show angles were made before the earth, since they are witness of the creation of the earth. Also I put in scripture were Lucifer first decide to rebel against God which would be after the creation of the earth before the flood of the universe which is why the Spirt of God is hovering over the waters. It was due to judgment against Lucifer and his fallen angels and creation at the time. Now angles cant die by the flood waters they are sprit but what ever was on the earth during that time could die which is were you can find your dinosaurs living during Lucifer rein over the earth. Also its the reason why God said in Genesis 9:11-15 And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth. Their was a flood before Noah's flood its the reason why good use the pervious waters already left over from the pervious flood. When ever waters is mentioned in Genesis it refers to the waters in Genesis 1:2.
There are two primary views on the identity of the sons of God and daughters of men. They were godly descendants of Seth intermarrying with wicked descendants of Cain. The major support for this interpretation is Genesis chapter 4 describes the ungodly generations of Cain, and 5 is the godly Seth line and the righteous line of Seth.
Cain and Seth are both descendants of Adam and Eve so if the descendants of Cain's daughters were fair, so the daughters of Seth would also be fair so, godly vs ungodly would have to be the difference. Nowhere in scripture are the descendants of Seth called "the sons of God", but more as an adoption, "shall be my son" as Solomon and us today, who receive Jesus and are led by the Spirit of God are the sons/ daughters of God. ( 1 Chronicles 17:13) ( 2 Corinthians 6:18)
The other view is angels who left their first estate and mated with women. Angels are called sons of God in Job, ( Job 1:6) ( Job 2:1) ( Job 38:7). Some say angels can not mate because of what Jesus said in ( Matthew 22:29-30). But all through scripture angels take on human form, they eat and drink and if they left their first estate it is possible. Scripture does not give a lot about this; we have 1656 years from Adam to the flood in only 7 chapters of Genesis.
Scripture tells us there are devils, demons, and fallen angels but these angels are different they are locked in chains of darkness in the bottomless pit until judgment. ( 2 Peter 2:4) ( Jude 1: 6). The bottomless pit comes up in Revelation, another study.
Also mentioned are giants/ Nephilim/ Rephaim "in those days; and also after that", before and after the flood. Whether these were offspring of angels' scripture does not tell us. The description in scripture is clear these are not just tall people. ( 2 Samuel 21:16) ( Joshua 12:4) ( Numbers 13:33) ( Deuteronomy 20:17) ( Deuteronomy 2:19-21) ( Amos 2:9).
This is just a small amount of information, maybe it will get you started in your study.
Your question, was sin there before the earth was created? Just to add a little to brother Earl's reply.
We know by the book of Job angels were created before for this earth ( Job 38:7). God asked Job these questions; "Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?" "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth?" ( Job 38)
We know God's plan was before this world, which includes the lake of fire and who this lake of fire was prepared for. ( Matthew 25:41) We are told one purpose the Son of God was manifested. ( 1John 3:8)
All of God's mysteries have not been revealed, things behind the scenes, things that are not in our Bible. If "there" in your question, is on earth the answer is no. Scripture does not tell us precisely when Satan sinned (rebelled).
Genesis 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
I personally don't think the real significance of that stanza is to express how all knowing and all colorful the creator is over his creation.
The reason I say this is because if that point could be expressed any number of ways more efficiently then by doing it the way it was done; this is because the way it's done the reader has deposited think wait a minute who is Arcturus what is Masa Ross etc point could've been made easily without the distraction if that was the point trying to be made.
Richard, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS knowledge.
HEAVEN
Flesh sees everything as natural. Heaven to natural eyes is out there somewhere. In Revelation where new Jerusalem is described; flesh sees this as a literal city with literal mansions and literal streets and literal trees and literal rivers. Bodies that have been glorified don't need houses or streets or walls or gates. We are the houses (mansions) of God, we are the streets of gold, we are the foundations of the city, we are NEW JERUSALEM. Revelation describes the foundation as twelve precious and costly stones. We are those (living) ( 1 Peter 2:4) stones that make up the city of new Jerusalem. We are the gates made of one pearl ( Psalms 23:9). Revelation represents something that is not LITERAL (which shall disappears)
Hebrews 12:27 And this word, Yet once more, SIGNIFIETH the REMOVING of those things that are shaken, as of things that are MADE, that those things WHICH CANNOT BE SHAKEN REMAIN.
This is why you don't see prophecies of heaven; WE ARE HEAVEN, WHERE GOD DWELLS.
Luke 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven (you) shall be SHAKEN.
Job 38:13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the WICKED might be SHAKEN out of it?
Mark 13:25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
We are the stars of heaven (God's promise to Abraham that his seed would be as the stars of heaven)
The powers (of Satan that rules by natural flesh) in heaven (US) shall be SHAKEN (flesh will be destroyed and replaced by Spirit)
Revelation is all about the removing of the LITERAL and replacing with the SPIRIT.
Steve, May the Spirit grace you with HIS wisdom and His understanding.
John 9 1-3 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.
(vs 2) And his disciples ask him, saying, Master, WHO DID SIN, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
(vs 3) Jesus answered, Neither has this man sinned, or his parents: but that THE WORKS OF GOD should be manifest in him.
None of us can completely understand why God does certain thing, but we can believe through the working of the Holy Spirit and stand on his word that the outcome will both bring us into the light and glorify God in the process.
2 Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy, whereunto you do well that you take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day (of the Lord)(CHRIST IN YOU) dawn, and the day star arise in you hearts.
Revelation 2:28 And I will give him the morning star.
Revelation 22:16 ...... I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together; and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice (the holy Spirit) saying in heaven (you, where Christ
dwells), Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of God (Christ in you), and the power of his Christ: for the ACCUSER of our brethern is cast down, which ACCUSED them (you) before our God day and night (they have no rest).
COME INTO MY REST AND CEASE FROM YOUR WORKS (your way of thinking)
May the SPIRIT grace you with ears to hear and eyes to see.
The heads are symbolic of seven kingdoms, starting with the beast of Daniel 7;
1st < Babylon
2nd < Medo-Persia
3rd < Greece
4th < Pagan Rome
5th < Papal Rome; the little horn
("that was" & "is not" & "yet is")
6th < "one is"
The woman that rides the beast is in captivity at the time of John's vision, AFTER receiving the deadly wound from the (atheist) beast from the bottomless pit [ Rev 11:7]. This is the beast of THE TIME AND PLACE of John's vision IN THE WILDERNESS.
(Meaning that John is in the wilderness in his vision and not physical on Patmos, and he sees a beast that would come up from out of this wilderness. Read Job 38:26.)
7th < "is not yet come"
At the time of John's vision in the wilderness, this head of the beast was yet to come; this is the beast from out of the earth [ Rev 13:11];
(And he shall exercise all of the power of the first beast...) when this beast will speak like a dragon.
This beast must continue a short time, as per the others before him.
I believe by the testimony of Jesus, that we are now living in that "short time".
The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
{ Revelation 17:8}
:11...even he is the eighth, AND IS OF THE SEVEN, and ascends out of the bottomless pit and goes into perdition.
--There are seven heads at the time of John's vision, five kings/heads/beast are fallen, so this eighth is of the five kingdoms...."that was"...."and is not"...."yet is" AND received a deadly wound; AND his deadly wound was healed.
This wound is the loss of her (the woman/church that rides the beast.) temporal sword (also her captivity), which is the earthly secular world kingdom.
NASA recently published these "new" discoveries regarding the gravitational forces of Pleiades yet this information was clearly written in God's word! Accurate science always matches up with the word of God.
"And the heavens & earth that are now", I don't regard as a stage because: 1. the heavens haven't changed in form or substance & 2. the earth is still essentially the same that was once submerged. I do agree with your 'Third heaven & earth stage', though.
Re: Satan & the Job reference. Probably my timeline would be as follows (& again, certainly not 'set in stone'): Lucifer was cast out of Heaven because of his rebellion ( Isaiah 14); he roamed the Earth (& elsewhere) & was in Eden at the creation of Adam & Eve ( Ezek 28); he appears with the Angels of God which seems to be an extraordinary event as God asks, "From where have you come?", as if to say, 'you aren't part of my angelic host, why have you joined them now?' Apparently, as a spirit he must have still had freedom to move wherever he wished. And yes, Satan, with the angelic host were created before the worlds were put together & probably, as you suggest, were included as the 'morning stars' in Job 38:7 (& this reference would precede the Isaiah 14 reference: before his rebellion).
Just my thoughts from my studies, but no doubt lacking for want of more biblical narrative & limited revealed light to me.
I believe you are correct as to the speaker being Jeremiah up until ( Jeremiah 4:26).
I was wondering, though, if you believe that this is a portrayal of Israel's future punishment, the devastation of this particular punishment of earth covered in water, and no light from heaven, has not come to pass. Is this yet still a future punishment awaiting Israel? If so, then what do we do with God's covenant to Noah in Genesis 9:8-17?
As to the three earth and heaven ages, have you considered 2 Peter chapter 3.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
I believe this is reference to the 1st earth and heaven age, which ended by being "overflowed with water," i.e., becoming "without form, and void."
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
I understand this to be the 2nd heaven and earth age. Time present. From Genesis 1:2 on.
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
I believe this is the 3rd heaven and earth age we are all looking forward to.
Heaven on earth ( Revelation 21:2)
Three heaven and earth ages; One heaven and one earth.
Concerning Satan, I would give reference to Job.
Satan I believe can be considered a "son of God," because he is referenced as being among them and with them to present himself to God in Job 1:6 and again in Job 2:1.
Satan is also included as being there with God when "the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy" ( Job 38:7) in reference to the creation of earth by God.
It seems as though Satan and the other angels may have been around before the creation of the earth itself.
Who are the Sons of God in Genesis 6 before the flood of Noah?
Sons of God (ANGELS) shout before the world began - Adam man came 6 days later. How can Adam shout before he existed?
Job 38:4 - Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Job 38:5 - Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Job 38:6 - Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
Job 38:7 - When the morning stars sang together, and all the SONS OF GOD sons of God shouted for joy?
How can the sons of God be men since they were shouting for joy when the earth was created?
Adam man did not come till 6 days AFTER the earth was made.
Adam was a Son of God since he created him -
Angels are SONS of God since God created them and was their Father
Jesus is the only BEGOTTEN SON of GOD -
Believers DO NOT become Sons of God till they are born again of the Holy Spirit only in the new testament
So were all the SONS OF GOD of Genesis 6 the men who were ALL righteous
the DAUGHTERS OF MEN were all women who were ALL wicked and evil
So all the men were godly and the women were evil ?
Really can we believe this: all the men were godly and the women were evil
then the godly men and wicked women got married and believers and unbelievers had children who were GIANTS
so where are these giants today? Playing for the NBA?
2 Samuel 21:20 - And there was yet a battle in Gath, where was a man of great stature, that had on every hand six fingers, and on every foot six toes, four and twenty in number; and he also was born to the giant.
so see any unbelievers running around with 6 fingers and toes?
then the Lord commanded all the they be killed? What?
No the fallen angels tried to corrupt the blood line of the chosen seed. that is why the Lord commanded the Cannanites be exterminated.
And God knows who to trust from the 1st age...........those who are written in the Lamb's book of life from the beginning (1st age). The Called, Chosen and Faithful, the Elect/ Ephes: 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eric, I'm not sure whether you are in agreement with Peter Grant or myself, by quoting his quote: "Does a spinning ball earth rocketing wildly through ( so called space) have have foundations? If he were alive his answer would have to be no!". Your question is a little open-ended.
He believes in a flat Earth around which revolves the Sun & Moon. I submit to the more conventional view. So, I'm sorry, I don't know the intent of your question.
Isaiah 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
circle of the earth, circle of the earth, circle of the earth.
Job 38 tells us the Sons of God shouted for joy at the creation of the earth. Adam did not come until 6 days AFTER the creation of the earth. So Adam could not have shouted for Joy before he was in existence. So the Sons of God of Job 38 must be angels., unless Adam shouted for joy before he existed.
Believers do not become Sons of God till they are born of the Spirit in the New Testament. Adam was called a Son of God since he had no earthly mother and Jesus is the ONLY BEGOTTEN Son of God. Angels are not THE SON OF GOD, they are Sons of God.
Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
After all who was the FATHER of the Angels? think about it.
Nephillim part 1 Who are the Sons of God in Genesis 6 before the flood of Noah?
Sons of God (ANGELS) shout before the world began - Adam man came 6 days later.
Job 38:4 - Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Job 38:5 - Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Job 38:6 - Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
Job 38:7 - When the morning stars sang together, and all the SONS OF GOD sons of God shouted for joy?
How can the sons of God be men since they were shouting for joy when the earth was created?
Adam man did not come till 6 days AFTER the earth was made.
Adam was a Son of God since he created him -
Angels are SONS of God since God created them and was their Father
Jesus is the only BEGOTTEN SON of GOD -
Believers DO NOT become Sons of God till they are born again of the Holy Spirit only in the new testament
So were all the SONS OF GOD of Genesis 6 the men who were ALL righteous?
the DAUGHTERS OF MEN were all women who were ALL wicked and evil?
So all the men were godly and the women were evil ?
Really can we believe this: all the men were godly and the women were evil
then the godly men and wicked women got married and believers and unbelievers had children who were GIANTS
so where are these giants today? Playing for the NBA?
2 Samuel 21:20 - And there was yet a battle in Gath, where was a man of great stature, that had on every hand six fingers, and on every foot six toes, four and twenty in number; and he also was born to the giant.
so see any unbelievers running around with 6 fingers and toes?
then the Lord commanded all the they be killed
1 Chron 20:4 - And it came to pass after this, that there arose WAR WAR WAR at Gezer with the Philistines; at which time Sibbechai the Hushathite slew Sippai, that was of the children of the giant: and they were subdued.
Peter Grant Budgewoi Australia - In Reply on Job 38:4 - 4 years ago
Whatever - I repent and sincerely apologize to any "Christian German Scientists labeled a Nazi " But they lied about landing land on something Yahweh has called a light Gen
2. NASA doesn't control everything in the skies. You tried to discredit some scientists for being from Germany. Is that their fault? My family is from Germany and we're Christian, are you calling us Nazis? Have you even been to Germany? When a country gets a corrupt oppressive ruler its a logical fallacy to assume all its people suddenly become evil. The fact is the vast majority of Germans were against the Nazi rule and were scared and propaganda lies made them not know the truth of what was going on.
3. The circle of the earth is easily proven by flying on an airplane. If you go high up you can see curvature of the horizon. Also, you can fly all the way around the world in a straight line and end up at your place of origin. I've already done this myself and proved the earth is a sphere. Have you ever traveled? This is a very easy experiment you can do, so what would prevent you from doing this? God already gave us the brains and resources to explore our natural world. People already do this all the time for work, vacation, etc. So when you do this you won't see any folds, no 'end' point, which is because its a sphere with gravity pulling from the middle. Otherwise where is your source of gravity? So, you expect to 'fall off' the end and 'down' in space? Where is down? Anyway you could simply take a GPS and plot all the waypoints of your flight then later plot in software and you'll see its a globe/circle just as God said.
4. There's a mountain of photo/video evidence of what the earth looks like from space. Thousands of photos/videos from before CGI was invented and before non-linear video editing was invented. What prevents you from writing/talking to the people who have been space? All the other stars and planets we can already see are also circles/spheres. We have lots of satellites orbiting earth all the time, which allows you to have internet service, to use websites like this, to read the Bible online, etc. God bless!
Peter Grant Budgewoi Australia - In Reply on Job 38:4 - 4 years ago
Well what can I say- Except God bless you Sir - Seems your mind is made up!! - I am deeply concerned in your belief in Masonic CGI imitation pictures of earth from so called space.
NASA was founded with scientists from NAZI Germany (Research operation Paper clip)
I base my reasoning on over 200 verses of scripture in Gods word that proves NASA to be a deceptive Organization that built it's reputation with former members from a defeated Satanic Regime that slaughtered millions of Gods chosen people!!
I could go on but it seems you are not open to the possibility God created a flat non - rotating earth even (As you say ) he can measure a spinning ball rocketing wildly through the firmament with a line and know the number of hairs on our heads - Seems to me a FE would be a walk in the park for him. May the lord Bless you and your family abundantly!!
I agree with you. Neither you nor I can measure a spinning ball rocketing wildly through the firmament with a line. But God can! He even knows the number of hairs on your head ( Mt 10:30). However, I can't help you with your belief in a flat Earth; I just go by the photos from space - & that'll do me for now. Maybe for interests sake & in understanding the Wisdom of God, (& not asking for much), you could take the mileage from Budgewoi to Sydney to the centimetre & see if you are satisfied with the outcome. Just maybe we have to rely on God for His Abilities & Wisdom that are far more superior to ours.
Peter Grant Budgewoi Australia on Job 38:4 - 4 years ago
The Lord God Almighty is asking Job - "Where were you when I laid the foundations of the Earth?"
Let me ask this this question of Job also " Does a spinning ball earth rocketing wildly through ( so called space) have have foundations? If he were alive his answer would have to be no!
In verse 5, the Lord also asks Job "Who has measured it - Do you know?" Or who has stretched a line upon it? (to measure it)
Let me ask you this "How can anyone measure a spinning ball earth rocketing wildly through (to be precise) The FIRMAMENT with a line? Only a flat surface can be measured with a line!
God is being mocked by a lie of a spinning ball Earth
Chris and all, You mean Gen 4. Questions: According to the Genesis account, there were only 4 people on the Earth when Cain killed Abel. So, who was Abel keeping flocks for? 4 people? And who was Cain farming for?
In 4:13 Cain says, "I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and WHOEVER finds me will kill me." Who is he referring to if there were no other people alive at the time? In 4:15, "The Lord put a mark on Cain so no one who found him would kill him." The Land of Nod was named after Nod. Who was Nod? In that land, Cain found a wife and had children and built a city. Is it fair to assume his was not the only city?
On Job 1:12, we see how God instructs Satan on what he is to do to Job. It is clear from Satan's response that he did not have the authority to do as he pleased. If he did, why would he accept the limits God placed on Him? Why did he even show up to God? Did he just want to have a nice chat over Tortillas and Enchiladas? What did Jesus say to Peter, Lk 22:31, "Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift each of you like wheat. But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith will not fail."
Did Satan ask to ruin God's creation? if not, why would he ask permission to go after Peter? Did he ask permission to go after Adam and Eve? When Jesus cast the demons out of a demented man, what happened? They asked Christ for permission to enter the pigs, Lk 8. See Job 38:33-35, "Do you know the laws of the heavens? Can you set up God's e dominion over the earth? Do you send the lightning bolts on their way?
Job had went through much sorrow and in that sorrow, he uttered things that were true to him, without the knowledge of God. We can relate, so many times we complain and murmur when we get into sorrowful or hard trials and tribulation. Through his afflictions, God humbles him in this chapter and makes him perceive that God is in control and makes no mistakes. God begins to ask him questions that are a mystery to him, in order to convey that he is still God even in situations that we do not understand. Never before had a righteous man gone through the things that Job went through. God wanted to convey to us that despite living righteous lives we may go through troubling times!
Sons of God (ANGELS) shout before the world began - Adam man came 6 days later.
Job 38:4 - Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Job 38:5 - Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Job 38:6 - Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
Job 38:7 - When the morning stars sang together, and all the SONS OF GOD sons of God shouted for joy?
How can the sons of God be men since they were shouting for joy when the earth was created?
Adam man did not come till 6 days AFTER the earth was made.
Is aligning oneself w/God's will compatible w/free will? Are we responsible for our actions, worthy of praise and blame? Not my will, but Thine be done, Jesus says at Gesthemane. I believe we have free will, unlike e. g. Sam Harris. He is a determinist, denies free will. I need an answer to this.
I believe you gave us a view of the trinity. Gen. 1:1.In the beginning "El-o-heem'" created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:2.And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the "SPIRIT OF GOD moved upon the face of the waters.
Gen 1:3. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Now I'm not sure if you're saying Jesus was created in verse 3 or not but we are sure it's not so according to these verses.
( ALL THINGS WERE MADE BY HIM; and without him was not any thing made that was made.)
In him was life; AND THE "LIFE WAS THE LIGHT OF MEN."
Colossians 1:16-17. For by him were all things created, that are in HEAVEN, and that are in earth, VISIBLE AND INVISIBLE, whether they be THROWNS, or DOMINIONS, or PRINCIPALITIES, or POWERS: (all things were created by him, and for him:)
And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
"Point here is we see Angels created here as well!!
And in Job 38:4-7. The Angels shouted for joy when Jesus created the Earth.
"Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
John 17:5. And now, O Father, glorify thou me WITH THINE OWN SELF with the glory which I had with thee BEFORE THE WORLD WAS.
Now we know he didn't come in the 4th Day!
Gen 1:16. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. THE SUN. "Also created!" You see a contrast of that light and the light of Jesus in
Revelation 21:23. and Revelation 22:5.
Revelation 3:14. Means in the sense Jesus is the origin and source of Gods creation. Colossians 1:15-18. and head of the new creation. 2 Corinthians 5:17.
God bles
There are two primary views on the identity of the sons of God and daughters of men. They were godly descendants of Seth intermarrying with wicked descendants of Cain. The major support for this interpretation is Genesis chapter 4 describes the ungodly generations of Cain, and 5 is the godly Seth line and the righteous line of Seth.
Cain and Seth are both descendants of Adam and Eve so if the descendants of Cain's daughters were fair, so the daughters of Seth would also be fair so, godly vs ungodly would have to be the difference. Nowhere in scripture are the descendants of Seth called "the sons of God", but more as an adoption, "shall be my son" as Solomon and us today, who receive Jesus and are led by the Spirit of God are the sons/ daughters of God. ( 1 Chronicles 17:13) ( 2 Corinthians 6:18)
The other view is angels who left their first estate and mated with women. Angels are called sons of God in Job, ( Job 1:6) ( Job 2:1) ( Job 38:7). Some say angels can not mate because of what Jesus said in ( Matthew 22:29-30). But all through scripture angels take on human form, they eat and drink and if they left their first estate it is possible. Scripture does not give a lot about this; we have 1656 years from Adam to the flood in only 7 chapters of Genesis.
Scripture tells us there are devils, demons, and fallen angels but these angels are different they are locked in chains of darkness in the bottomless pit until judgment. ( 2 Peter 2:4) ( Jude 1: 6). The bottomless pit comes up in Revelation, another study.
Also mentioned are giants/ Nephilim/ Rephaim "in those days; and also after that", before and after the flood. Whether these were offspring of angels' scripture does not tell us. The description in scripture is clear these are not just tall people. ( 2 Samuel 21:16) ( Joshua 12:4) ( Numbers 13:33) ( Deuteronomy 20:17) ( Deuteronomy 2:19-21) ( Amos 2:9).
This is just a small amount of information, maybe it will get you started in your study.
RLW
Your question, was sin there before the earth was created? Just to add a little to brother Earl's reply.
We know by the book of Job angels were created before for this earth ( Job 38:7). God asked Job these questions; "Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?" "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth?" ( Job 38)
We know God's plan was before this world, which includes the lake of fire and who this lake of fire was prepared for. ( Matthew 25:41) We are told one purpose the Son of God was manifested. ( 1John 3:8)
All of God's mysteries have not been revealed, things behind the scenes, things that are not in our Bible. If "there" in your question, is on earth the answer is no. Scripture does not tell us precisely when Satan sinned (rebelled).
Genesis 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
RLW
The reason I say this is because if that point could be expressed any number of ways more efficiently then by doing it the way it was done; this is because the way it's done the reader has deposited think wait a minute who is Arcturus what is Masa Ross etc point could've been made easily without the distraction if that was the point trying to be made.
HEAVEN
Flesh sees everything as natural. Heaven to natural eyes is out there somewhere. In Revelation where new Jerusalem is described; flesh sees this as a literal city with literal mansions and literal streets and literal trees and literal rivers. Bodies that have been glorified don't need houses or streets or walls or gates. We are the houses (mansions) of God, we are the streets of gold, we are the foundations of the city, we are NEW JERUSALEM. Revelation describes the foundation as twelve precious and costly stones. We are those (living) ( 1 Peter 2:4) stones that make up the city of new Jerusalem. We are the gates made of one pearl ( Psalms 23:9). Revelation represents something that is not LITERAL (which shall disappears)
Hebrews 12:27 And this word, Yet once more, SIGNIFIETH the REMOVING of those things that are shaken, as of things that are MADE, that those things WHICH CANNOT BE SHAKEN REMAIN.
This is why you don't see prophecies of heaven; WE ARE HEAVEN, WHERE GOD DWELLS.
Luke 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven (you) shall be SHAKEN.
Job 38:13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the WICKED might be SHAKEN out of it?
Mark 13:25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
We are the stars of heaven (God's promise to Abraham that his seed would be as the stars of heaven)
The powers (of Satan that rules by natural flesh) in heaven (US) shall be SHAKEN (flesh will be destroyed and replaced by Spirit)
Revelation is all about the removing of the LITERAL and replacing with the SPIRIT.
A new heaven a new earth.
John 9 1-3 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.
(vs 2) And his disciples ask him, saying, Master, WHO DID SIN, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
(vs 3) Jesus answered, Neither has this man sinned, or his parents: but that THE WORKS OF GOD should be manifest in him.
None of us can completely understand why God does certain thing, but we can believe through the working of the Holy Spirit and stand on his word that the outcome will both bring us into the light and glorify God in the process.
2 Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy, whereunto you do well that you take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day (of the Lord)(CHRIST IN YOU) dawn, and the day star arise in you hearts.
Revelation 2:28 And I will give him the morning star.
Revelation 22:16 ...... I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together; and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice (the holy Spirit) saying in heaven (you, where Christ
dwells), Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of God (Christ in you), and the power of his Christ: for the ACCUSER of our brethern is cast down, which ACCUSED them (you) before our God day and night (they have no rest).
COME INTO MY REST AND CEASE FROM YOUR WORKS (your way of thinking)
May the SPIRIT grace you with ears to hear and eyes to see.
The seven headed beast of Revelation 17:
"Here is the mind which has wisdom"
The heads are symbolic of seven kingdoms, starting with the beast of Daniel 7;
1st < Babylon
2nd < Medo-Persia
3rd < Greece
4th < Pagan Rome
5th < Papal Rome; the little horn
("that was" & "is not" & "yet is")
6th < "one is"
The woman that rides the beast is in captivity at the time of John's vision, AFTER receiving the deadly wound from the (atheist) beast from the bottomless pit [ Rev 11:7]. This is the beast of THE TIME AND PLACE of John's vision IN THE WILDERNESS.
(Meaning that John is in the wilderness in his vision and not physical on Patmos, and he sees a beast that would come up from out of this wilderness. Read Job 38:26.)
7th < "is not yet come"
At the time of John's vision in the wilderness, this head of the beast was yet to come; this is the beast from out of the earth [ Rev 13:11];
(And he shall exercise all of the power of the first beast...) when this beast will speak like a dragon.
This beast must continue a short time, as per the others before him.
I believe by the testimony of Jesus, that we are now living in that "short time".
The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
{ Revelation 17:8}
:11...even he is the eighth, AND IS OF THE SEVEN, and ascends out of the bottomless pit and goes into perdition.
--There are seven heads at the time of John's vision, five kings/heads/beast are fallen, so this eighth is of the five kingdoms...."that was"...."and is not"...."yet is" AND received a deadly wound; AND his deadly wound was healed.
This wound is the loss of her (the woman/church that rides the beast.) temporal sword (also her captivity), which is the earthly secular world kingdom.
"And the heavens & earth that are now", I don't regard as a stage because: 1. the heavens haven't changed in form or substance & 2. the earth is still essentially the same that was once submerged. I do agree with your 'Third heaven & earth stage', though.
Re: Satan & the Job reference. Probably my timeline would be as follows (& again, certainly not 'set in stone'): Lucifer was cast out of Heaven because of his rebellion ( Isaiah 14); he roamed the Earth (& elsewhere) & was in Eden at the creation of Adam & Eve ( Ezek 28); he appears with the Angels of God which seems to be an extraordinary event as God asks, "From where have you come?", as if to say, 'you aren't part of my angelic host, why have you joined them now?' Apparently, as a spirit he must have still had freedom to move wherever he wished. And yes, Satan, with the angelic host were created before the worlds were put together & probably, as you suggest, were included as the 'morning stars' in Job 38:7 (& this reference would precede the Isaiah 14 reference: before his rebellion).
Just my thoughts from my studies, but no doubt lacking for want of more biblical narrative & limited revealed light to me.
Thank you for your various responses.
I believe you are correct as to the speaker being Jeremiah up until ( Jeremiah 4:26).
I was wondering, though, if you believe that this is a portrayal of Israel's future punishment, the devastation of this particular punishment of earth covered in water, and no light from heaven, has not come to pass. Is this yet still a future punishment awaiting Israel? If so, then what do we do with God's covenant to Noah in Genesis 9:8-17?
As to the three earth and heaven ages, have you considered 2 Peter chapter 3.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
I believe this is reference to the 1st earth and heaven age, which ended by being "overflowed with water," i.e., becoming "without form, and void."
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
I understand this to be the 2nd heaven and earth age. Time present. From Genesis 1:2 on.
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
I believe this is the 3rd heaven and earth age we are all looking forward to.
Heaven on earth ( Revelation 21:2)
Three heaven and earth ages; One heaven and one earth.
Concerning Satan, I would give reference to Job.
Satan I believe can be considered a "son of God," because he is referenced as being among them and with them to present himself to God in Job 1:6 and again in Job 2:1.
Satan is also included as being there with God when "the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy" ( Job 38:7) in reference to the creation of earth by God.
It seems as though Satan and the other angels may have been around before the creation of the earth itself.
Thanks,
EJL
Sons of God (ANGELS) shout before the world began - Adam man came 6 days later. How can Adam shout before he existed?
Job 38:4 - Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Job 38:5 - Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Job 38:6 - Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
Job 38:7 - When the morning stars sang together, and all the SONS OF GOD sons of God shouted for joy?
How can the sons of God be men since they were shouting for joy when the earth was created?
Adam man did not come till 6 days AFTER the earth was made.
Adam was a Son of God since he created him -
Angels are SONS of God since God created them and was their Father
Jesus is the only BEGOTTEN SON of GOD -
Believers DO NOT become Sons of God till they are born again of the Holy Spirit only in the new testament
So were all the SONS OF GOD of Genesis 6 the men who were ALL righteous
the DAUGHTERS OF MEN were all women who were ALL wicked and evil
So all the men were godly and the women were evil ?
Really can we believe this: all the men were godly and the women were evil
then the godly men and wicked women got married and believers and unbelievers had children who were GIANTS
so where are these giants today? Playing for the NBA?
2 Samuel 21:20 - And there was yet a battle in Gath, where was a man of great stature, that had on every hand six fingers, and on every foot six toes, four and twenty in number; and he also was born to the giant.
so see any unbelievers running around with 6 fingers and toes?
then the Lord commanded all the they be killed? What?
No the fallen angels tried to corrupt the blood line of the chosen seed. that is why the Lord commanded the Cannanites be exterminated.
He believes in a flat Earth around which revolves the Sun & Moon. I submit to the more conventional view. So, I'm sorry, I don't know the intent of your question.
circle of the earth, circle of the earth, circle of the earth.
a pancake?
Believers do not become Sons of God till they are born of the Spirit in the New Testament. Adam was called a Son of God since he had no earthly mother and Jesus is the ONLY BEGOTTEN Son of God. Angels are not THE SON OF GOD, they are Sons of God.
Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
After all who was the FATHER of the Angels? think about it.
Sons of God (ANGELS) shout before the world began - Adam man came 6 days later.
Job 38:4 - Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Job 38:5 - Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Job 38:6 - Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
Job 38:7 - When the morning stars sang together, and all the SONS OF GOD sons of God shouted for joy?
How can the sons of God be men since they were shouting for joy when the earth was created?
Adam man did not come till 6 days AFTER the earth was made.
Adam was a Son of God since he created him -
Angels are SONS of God since God created them and was their Father
Jesus is the only BEGOTTEN SON of GOD -
Believers DO NOT become Sons of God till they are born again of the Holy Spirit only in the new testament
So were all the SONS OF GOD of Genesis 6 the men who were ALL righteous?
the DAUGHTERS OF MEN were all women who were ALL wicked and evil?
So all the men were godly and the women were evil ?
Really can we believe this: all the men were godly and the women were evil
then the godly men and wicked women got married and believers and unbelievers had children who were GIANTS
so where are these giants today? Playing for the NBA?
2 Samuel 21:20 - And there was yet a battle in Gath, where was a man of great stature, that had on every hand six fingers, and on every foot six toes, four and twenty in number; and he also was born to the giant.
so see any unbelievers running around with 6 fingers and toes?
then the Lord commanded all the they be killed
1 Chron 20:4 - And it came to pass after this, that there arose WAR WAR WAR at Gezer with the Philistines; at which time Sibbechai the Hushathite slew Sippai, that was of the children of the giant: and they were subdued.
2. NASA doesn't control everything in the skies. You tried to discredit some scientists for being from Germany. Is that their fault? My family is from Germany and we're Christian, are you calling us Nazis? Have you even been to Germany? When a country gets a corrupt oppressive ruler its a logical fallacy to assume all its people suddenly become evil. The fact is the vast majority of Germans were against the Nazi rule and were scared and propaganda lies made them not know the truth of what was going on.
3. The circle of the earth is easily proven by flying on an airplane. If you go high up you can see curvature of the horizon. Also, you can fly all the way around the world in a straight line and end up at your place of origin. I've already done this myself and proved the earth is a sphere. Have you ever traveled? This is a very easy experiment you can do, so what would prevent you from doing this? God already gave us the brains and resources to explore our natural world. People already do this all the time for work, vacation, etc. So when you do this you won't see any folds, no 'end' point, which is because its a sphere with gravity pulling from the middle. Otherwise where is your source of gravity? So, you expect to 'fall off' the end and 'down' in space? Where is down? Anyway you could simply take a GPS and plot all the waypoints of your flight then later plot in software and you'll see its a globe/circle just as God said.
4. There's a mountain of photo/video evidence of what the earth looks like from space. Thousands of photos/videos from before CGI was invented and before non-linear video editing was invented. What prevents you from writing/talking to the people who have been space? All the other stars and planets we can already see are also circles/spheres. We have lots of satellites orbiting earth all the time, which allows you to have internet service, to use websites like this, to read the Bible online, etc. God bless!
NASA was founded with scientists from NAZI Germany (Research operation Paper clip)
I base my reasoning on over 200 verses of scripture in Gods word that proves NASA to be a deceptive Organization that built it's reputation with former members from a defeated Satanic Regime that slaughtered millions of Gods chosen people!!
I could go on but it seems you are not open to the possibility God created a flat non - rotating earth even (As you say ) he can measure a spinning ball rocketing wildly through the firmament with a line and know the number of hairs on our heads - Seems to me a FE would be a walk in the park for him. May the lord Bless you and your family abundantly!!
Let me ask this this question of Job also " Does a spinning ball earth rocketing wildly through ( so called space) have have foundations? If he were alive his answer would have to be no!
In verse 5, the Lord also asks Job "Who has measured it - Do you know?" Or who has stretched a line upon it? (to measure it)
Let me ask you this "How can anyone measure a spinning ball earth rocketing wildly through (to be precise) The FIRMAMENT with a line? Only a flat surface can be measured with a line!
God is being mocked by a lie of a spinning ball Earth
LET GOD BE TRUE AND EVERY MAN A LAIR!! ( Rom 3:4)
In 4:13 Cain says, "I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and WHOEVER finds me will kill me." Who is he referring to if there were no other people alive at the time? In 4:15, "The Lord put a mark on Cain so no one who found him would kill him." The Land of Nod was named after Nod. Who was Nod? In that land, Cain found a wife and had children and built a city. Is it fair to assume his was not the only city?
On Job 1:12, we see how God instructs Satan on what he is to do to Job. It is clear from Satan's response that he did not have the authority to do as he pleased. If he did, why would he accept the limits God placed on Him? Why did he even show up to God? Did he just want to have a nice chat over Tortillas and Enchiladas? What did Jesus say to Peter, Lk 22:31, "Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift each of you like wheat. But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith will not fail."
Did Satan ask to ruin God's creation? if not, why would he ask permission to go after Peter? Did he ask permission to go after Adam and Eve? When Jesus cast the demons out of a demented man, what happened? They asked Christ for permission to enter the pigs, Lk 8. See Job 38:33-35, "Do you know the laws of the heavens? Can you set up God's e dominion over the earth? Do you send the lightning bolts on their way?
Do they report to you, 'Here we are'?"
Job 38:4 - Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Job 38:5 - Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Job 38:6 - Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
Job 38:7 - When the morning stars sang together, and all the SONS OF GOD sons of God shouted for joy?
How can the sons of God be men since they were shouting for joy when the earth was created?
Adam man did not come till 6 days AFTER the earth was made.
Adam was a Son of God since he created him -