This spirit is not the person, nor is it immortal or eternal, nor does it have a conscious existence when the person dies. Those of us who have the Holy Spirit in us, Romans 8:11, But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you, this is the Spirit of God, for those in Jesus Christ, this happens at resurrection.
In Psalms 16:7 David said the LORD has given him counsel; this is his spirit communicating with God, as Paul calls it in 2 Corinthians 4:16 the inward man. Peter describes it as the hidden man of the heart, 1 Peter 3:4. When God communicates with us, it is not with our mind; it's a Spirit-to-spirit communication.
God gives the human a spirit, some believe it is at conception, Zechariah 12:1, Isaiah 12:5. We know He takes it back at the time of death, Ecclesiastes 12:7. Psalm 104:29, thou takest away their breath, they die, the Hebrew word for breath is ruach, it also means spirit. James 2:26, the body without the spirit is dead. All consciousness ends when we die. Psalm 6:5, Job 14:12-14, Job 17:13-16. Psalm 115:17. Ecclesiastes 9:5-10. We sleep in death until resurrection day, the day of redemption. 1 Corinthians 15:51-54, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-15.
The Bible tells us a spirit can be good, bad, or broken, Psalm 34:18, God cares for us and wants to help mend our brokenness, Isaiah 41:10. When we do not have rule over our spirit, we can go so bad that God turns one over to a reprobate mind as we see in Romans 1:18-32, the door is shut. With God's Spirit, the Holy Spirit, we in our spirit grow in our faith and have comfort in His presence.
Anyone can say I believe God. Believing with a head knowledge is not enough, we must believe with our heart and soul. For the devils believes in God and tremble.
James 2:19
Thoubelievest that there is one God; thou doest well: thedevilsalsobelieve, and tremble.
We must use our heart to BELIEVE....
Romans 10:10
For with theheartman believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Ray, in Christ Jesus 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 believing with the heart
Concerning a Friday crucifixion or Sunday resurrection, I won't get into that here, except to quote Luke 24:1, "Now upon the first day of the week.." And that is a Sunday, which follows the seventh day of the week, a Saturday/Sabbath.
You did well to quote Galatians 5:18-25: showing that we are not under the Law, which means that we are free from its ultimate purpose: that of revealing human spiritual & mental frailty & resulting condemnation. If we break even one Law, we have broken all & remain condemned ( James 2:10). There was nothing wrong at all with the Law ( Romans 7:12), but its purpose was to lead men to Christ, not to be resurrected again by those now in Christ as some sort of rule book to follow & please God by. The only way to please the LORD is to do His Will, following the dictates of His Holy Spirit He has given us. If we use the Decalogue as some sort of yardstick to measure our spiritual standard & acceptance to God, then we have failed & missed the whole point of Christ's Sacrifice & the great matchless worth of the New Covenant in His Blood. Thank you for your time.
Thanks for you input. I disagree with your assessment because scripture reveals time and time again that God's Saints keep the Commandments of God and the Faith of Jesus. I gave scripture that specifically tells us the 10 Commandments Moses put on the tablets are in fact the Covenant words God gave to Abraham. Reject it if you will, however the words as proof within scripture remain and will not be moved or changed by the will of others wanting to hold views contrary to this truth.
The following also adequately supports my position. However there are numerous other examples I could share, notwithstanding, Jesus Himself tells all men to keep God's 10 Commandments.
Many, many preachers teach falsity and lies. Some out of ignorance and others out of greed. Just as many listen to them and don't do their own due diligence to verify what they are told is truth.
James 2:18 Context
15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Furthermore, I can show definitive proof using scripture that Jesus was not Crucified or buried on a Friday, nor did Jesus rise on Sunday. A Friday Crucifixion and Sunday Resurrection is given as the basis for most Sunday observing denominations in holding Sunday in regard rather than God's Commanded Sabbath. However they err in doing so and as I said, I can demonstrate using scripture why they err in this.
God made man for a purpose. That purpose was that He might have a race peculiarly made for His praise and glory and honor and that that race might seek to do only His will. Man chose not to fulfill that purpose when he believed the evil one, and he fell from his lofty estate of Edenic bliss and fellowship with God. Now man has fallen, but God still wants to salvage him. Basically, that is what salvation is...salvation is a salvaging. Now this salvaging is twofold. When a person is born again, his spirit is salvaged. 'Mere is more, however, to salvation (salvaging) than being born again. God also wants to salvage our lives. Ephesians 2: 10, "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
By Jack Hyles
"What must I do to be saved?" "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved"! There is God's plan of salvation, the only plan He has for every man, woman and child who was ever born into the whole world.
Believe On The Lord Jesus Christ
Here is God's simple way to be saved. You are a sinner, your heart is wrong, you cannot save yourself, you are already condemned. The thing you are to do then, to be saved, is to simply trust the Lord Jesus with that matter. When you do trust Him, then you have God's promise, "Thou shalt be saved."
I do not mean that you are simply to believe that there is a God or that there is a Saviour. Devils believe that and tremble ( James 2:19).
You can believe that a certain physician is a good doctor [without calling him to be your doctor] when you are sick. You can believe that a certain man is a good lawyer without taking him as your lawyer to defend your case. You are not just to believe the truth about Jesus; you are to believe on Him, that is, depend upon Him, risk Him, trust Him; and when you do, you are saved.
Thank you, brother, I know many have your understanding of this, and defining the difference between the soul and the spirit is difficult, in Scripture they seem to be interchangeable, at least it is for me. Salvation is not dependent on this, we know we are sealed and secure in Jesus regardless of what happens when we die.
In Genesis 2:7 Adam became a living being/soul the Hebrew word nephesh, in the New Testament it is the word psyche. My understanding this is who we are, our senses, desires, affections, appetites, intellect, and memories. The soul, who we are can be killed, Matthew 10:28. My understanding when we die is the soul/who we are, is asleep with our body in the grave, and is resurrected either to eternity with Jesus or is killed in the lake of fire.
Man cannot kill our soul all souls belong to God Ezekiel 18:4. God has offered a way of salvation for souls that are doomed to die, Hebrews 9:27. And we are told we can walk in the world or walk in the Spirit and Jesus told us the consequences, Matthew 16:26.
Spirit both the Hebrew word ruach and the Greek word pneuma translated as spirit have the concept of breath or wind at their roots. This part of us can be alive or dead Ephesians 2:4-5. The most enter part of us that connects or refuses to connect to God, like a radio receiver and it gives life to the body, Psalm 104:29James 2:26.
This is what returns to God when we die, there is no more communication our fate is set after we die our soul is asleep in death until we are resurrected, Daniel 12:2. I know you said you do not know Plato, Greek philosophy, many in those days were influenced, the spirit or soul is immortal and the descriptions of an underworld. I believe Jesus took parts of these fables and used them as subject matter in this parable.
My understanding the spirit does not have a body it gives life to the body, and we are resurrected and given an eternal spirit.
another example what Timothy is saying about Faith without works. is Love without works.
in the same way,if a person tells there spouse or whatever,I love you,.then do nothing to physically show it.the words are meaningless.the words should be a result of past tense not before it happens same with Faith
does she not love for love, does she not deserve it..
3 basic steps to show Faith n love to the Holy
1st is where it starts..in the thoughts,stay away from all the nasty stuff,dont cuss foul language etc
2nd is give to someone or something in need whenever possible or however possible
3rd is Extremely Important.. Do Not Work On Sundays.
Romans 4:2-4, "2For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt."
Above it says that Abraham was justified by his faith. Let's see how James describes Abraham's justification.
James 2:21-22, "21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?"
In contrast? No,not really. What James says is that a working faith must result in good works, otherwise it is considered dead, v26, "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."
Is James talking to atheists or christians? Definitely his epistle is addressed to christians. What does he tell them? That their faith must produce works in order for them to be justified
Since some of us hold the idea that if we are regenerated and the Spirit of God dwells in us, then it is inevitable for us to produce works, then we must explain, "was Abraham somehow obliged by his faith to sacrifice his son or it was up to him, his free will, to decide whether he wanted to sacrifice Isaac or not? The answer is that it was up to him. He could had decided not to sacrifice Isaac. It was entirely up to him, not to God. God had nothing to do with his decision to obey or not.
Similarly our obedience to God and the subsequent production of works in our life is not an automatic process like somehow we are programmed to do works, but it is entirely up to us. We can, but we can not do what the Spirit commands. When are we justified? When we decide to have works that result from our obedience to do what we read in the Bible. Otherwise our faith is in vain, dead, resulting in no salvation. All that is not on God, it is on us
Yes,certainly,as you said,GOD HIMSELF manifested himself to the Hebrews through the OT;which was written by the twenty-four elders,starting with Moses,understand?By the way,JESUS said GOD is Spirit- John 4:24-,what is the name of the invisible Spirit of GOD?Well,GOD had said in the beginning- Genesis 1:26(the beginning is JESUS,who is the LITERAL IMAGE of GOD,He is GOD)-, yes, GOD had said:"Let us make man in OUR image,after OUR likeness", then, both are One, and as we can see, since ancient times, since Genesis, GOD revealed He would be made flesh.
By the prophet Isaiah,who is one of the 24 elders,GOD again revealed He would be made flesh, and around 2000 years ago He LITERALLY fulfilled His promise- John 1:14-and what is the NAME that GOD chose for He Himself? The NAME that GOD chose for He Himself was/is JESUS - JOSHUA-. Luke 1:26-the angel GABRIEL was sent FROM GOD(the Word is GOD,GOD Himself,self-executing) unto a city of Galilee,named Nazareth,and said to Mary:behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a SON, and shalt call his NAME JESUS. He shall be great, and called the Son of the Highest: the Lord GOD(the Word is GOD, GOD Himself, self-executing) shall give unto Him the throne of His father David.
Remember: The Jews said to JESUS: John 8:41-we have one Father, even God. And JESUS said to the Devil, father of the Jews-Yahweh:It is written,Man shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY WORD that proceedeth out of the MOUTH OF GOD-Mat.4:4.
Psalms 110:1combined with Hebrews 1:8(plus Matthew 25:11, James 2:1, Isaiah 49:14, Luke 20:42, 1 Corinthians 9:1) -
GOD said to the Lord JESUS:Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy Kingdom.
KJV Psalms 83:18, Isaiah 12:2, Exodus 6:3, Isaiah 26:4 LORD=JEHOVAH; ->JEHOVAH is another esoteric and kabbalistic and spiritist nickname of the father of the Jews.
Luke 16:5 lord=a King or one of authority,yes, see John 18:37.
Thanks you for explaining the difference and use of the name and by whom, Now I know the difference. I don't think Bible hub will burn as I was only translating Old Testament, and the Old Testament was given in Hebrew and was given to them as there laws in Hebrew.
In KJV there are 3 different uses of the name. LORD and Lord and lord. Psalms 110:1(A Psalm of David.) The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. I think this explains it best.
KJV Psalms 83:18, Isaiah 12:2 , Exodus 6:3, Isaiah 26:4 LORD = GOD JEHOVAH, LORD GOD of Israel
KJV Psalms 110:1, Matthew 25:11, James 2:1, Isaiah 49:14, Luke 20:42, 1 Corinthians 9:1 Lord = Jesus
KJV 2 Samuel 24:3, Luke 16:5 lord = a King or one of authority
I actually found the Psalms answer on u-tube form someone studying the KJV 1611 he was proving the KJV is the true word of GOD and just so happened to answer my question at the same time. I added these verses I found because I didn't mention any books or verses in my original question because it is every translation in Old Testament I compared no matter which book or verse. And I also found this.
Yahweh is the name of Israel's God and the God who came to earth as Jesus Christ, Yahweh in the flesh. Matthew 1:21 says, "She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins." The name Jesus is from the Latin form of the Greek form of Yeshua, which literally means "Yahweh saves." So Yahweh will save His people from their sins, and simultaneously Jesus will save His people from their sins. This is just one of many instances where Jesus and Yahweh are equated.
James 2:9-12: James is writing in these verses about those who would "keep (fully obey) the whole law", yet go astray even by committing one sin in a moment of time, having demonstrated their inability to keep (continually uphold) the Law as required. "So speak ye ( James 1:26), and so do ( James 2:17), as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty (the Law believers are under, 2 Corinthians 2:17, Galatians 5:1, James 1:25)". The Law of Liberty, can also be referred to the Law of the Spirit Who gives Liberty ( 2 Corinthians 3:17, Romans 8:2), assures our hearts that we are accepted of the Lord because we have been forgiven & the Gift of the Holy Spirit continually ministers to our hearts & lives to help us live holy lives or lead us/discipline us when we stray off course.
This Liberty, the Law could never give - Israel always remained fearful of it, eventually leading them into idolatry & debauchery, but to those IN Christ Jesus there is now no condemnation who walk after the Spirit ( Romans 8:1) - we should not be bound to the letter that had as its goal to expose & destroy souls, but to the Spirit Who gives Power & Life to obey God perfectly, "hating even the garment spotted by the flesh" ( Jude 1:23). Only the Laws given us by the Spirit to our hearts cover every area of our lives, ministering to us in His Way (& not in human strength), so we can live above the letter's demands but as new creations in Christ. There was nothing wrong with the 10 Commandments, for they are from God & His Truth - but they were for Israel alone, for their conduct before God & man, to show them their sin, God's requirements, & prepare them to approach God in Love, Truth, & Faith. All who did at that time were accepted by their faith alone ( Hebrews 11:39,40) & not on how well they kept the Law. Romans 8:3,4 (we allow the righteousness of the Law to work & be fulfilled in us by God's Spirit - never appealing to the letter, which is devoid of life). Every blessing.
Hi Chris: I'm really sorry I didn't let you know I was posting again and if you'd rather not do this discussion I'm fine with that.
When I refer to the law I am only referencing the 10 commandments. It's my sense that you are saying that the law was purely for the Jews only, does that includes the 10 commandments? if you are saying that the 10 commands were only for the Jews then I do have some questions:
A) What standard do the gentiles follow in order to live righteous lives for God if not the commandments?
B) What are the imputed laws that Jesus expects us to obey?
C) There are so many verses in the new testament that deal with obeying the commandments, like the two below. What do you believe they are telling us?
Romans 2:12-13
All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but it is the doers of the law who will be declared righteous.
James 2:10
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. God Bless :0
I'm glad you are able to have some relief and comfort.
Seventh-day Adventists is a denomination that differ in a few areas than most other denominations, the most notable is the Sabbath day.
Example.
They are distinguished by their observance of Saturday/Sabbath "Day"
The commandment for the Sabbath is found in Exodus 20"8-11.
Notice here in Exodus 31:13-18.
who it was written to.
"Speak thou also unto the CHILDREN OF ISRAEL, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout YOUR GENERATIONS; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Wherefore the CHILDREN OF ISRAEL shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
IT IS A SIGN BETWEEN ME AND THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed. And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.
If we're applying sound hermeneutics we must consider who this is written to and coordinate this with other scriptures.
Example.
James 2:10. "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Also, Colossians 2:16-17.
"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Prayers: Concluding thoughts (if you're lucky) for now.
In general; prayer is often answered when it isn't a "no or later" situation through other means and individuals than we in our puny minds can comprehend. It seems from my experience there are those who are obsessed in wanting to meet the needs of others (i.e. a gift of service) and others (probably more like myself) who like to offer some thought provoking scriptural concept or parable like statement to make people think. What I mean is; in my inherant selfishness; I am not obsessed like those aforementioned gifted believers with a gift of service or helps to always meet people's needs up front and right away.
This isn't getting me out of the pit I'm digging for myself...but I'm making a point (I think). Sometimes at least I hope; there is some merit to being abstract in some regard at least in not always having to be the one to fix the problem. That leaves me with my own issues of having to push myself to be as giving as a lot of others but obviously that is my problem not that of the audience (I will presume innocent until proven otherwise in that regard).
Okay; enough of the "Pauline" sarcasm. In having wisdom and being wise as serpents; innocent as doves we wrestle out our existence. ( Matthew 10:16). With prayer of course we are to take appropriate action when we can so we don't be as the person in James 2:16 and not be an answered prayer OURSELVES to someone in their misery. We can't give away all our money in the same token unless it is our own volition and to fulfill the Great Commission unless it is for dire need or our family interests (even that with caution). All of this is to say that indeed we need as the Body of Christ not to be overly lazy or overly burdened to the extent that the individual in Phillippians 2:27 was who Paul mentioned.
Prayer usually involves a marathon effort but sometimes is answered as a sprint. Sometimes God works miracles without obvious prayer
Scripturally, excluding a person from the church is preceded by admonition and counsel; it is only employed in cases of bona fide heresy, obdurate divisiveness, or blatant, unrepentant sin; and it is a last resort. After excommunication, the relationship between the former member and the church naturally changes, and the "shunning command"-not to eat with such a person-may come into play. However, the church still has the responsibility to pray for the one being disciplined and to extend forgiveness when repentance is evident. Shunning, as defined as a refusal to speak to someone or a total severing of all ties, goes beyond what the Bible advocates.
PARTIALITY.
This is another evil we see amongst believers.
The chapter of James 2 covers this. ( James 2:1-26)
Let's take on just a few verses.
If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
So, speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. ( Revelation 21:8)
These verses at the end of the Bible and representing the end of the wicked is the end result of those who won't heed to warnings such as 1 Corinthians 6:9-11; see also Galatians 5:19; Ephesians 5:5 and many other scriptures on the subject. We do well to heed to what was said in the last verse of 1 Corinthians 6 of this reference (v. 11) where it states that some were this but they have been sanctified and justified.
There are several issues here that I feel need to be addressed. First is the difference between a sinful lapse; a sinful habit and a sinful lifestyle. All three of these behaviors could be attributed to nonbelievers; albeit in today's society there would be few that would care about a slip up except perhaps some atheists who hold to what they consider a moral standard superior to much of society. Clearly as a Christian we shouldn't play games with God with any type of sin. The third category; however is something that must be abandoned; otherwise there is no fruit of our salvation. Also we undestand that breaking the law in one area makes us guilty of breaking it all ( James 2:10). Often one sin leads to another; whether it is abuse or abandonment of a family due to the greed of a gambling addiction (something which is being advertised currently in local media); or murder stemming from the bad fruit of adultery or fornication that usually is also tied to greed or jealousy; etc.
The word "fearful" in Revelation 21:8 is in many translations "cowardly". It results when men fear man over God which we are to have a healthy fear of and ignores ( Proverbs 29:25). Wanting the praise of men is at least equally if not worse because it compromises our bold witness against sin ( John 12:43).
"And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:" James 2:3 KJV
The people in the back should be sitting in the front. The very front so they can get the help and support they need and become stronger and overcome. The people in the back might be struggling with very weighty issues and those with the weightest of issues need to sit closest to the front. So that the stronger ones can pray for them and show their love, support and compassion with hopes of making those that were sitting in the back that are now in the very front, overcomers.
Respectfully submitted in the name of our precious Lord and Savior Jesus, the Christ.
Hi BillyRay. Proverbs 6:17 will answer your first question; with verses 16-19 describing the 'seven things that are an abomination to God'. I can't think of a specific verse to answer your second question, though James 2:10 comes to mind: "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."
As with anything that comes into our minds, whether to lie, lust or whatever, when we it begins to take hold, to affect our minds & consciences, we must deal with it speedily, in the power of the Spirit lest it becomes sin & we offend our Heavenly Father. Yet, there is forgiveness if we earnestly repent of it & seek to cast it aside ( 1 John 1:9).
Part 8. J Vernon Mcgee. (Paul and James Use Abraham to Illustrate.)
So Paul's example has to do with the early part of Abraham's life. When James presents his argument, we find that he deals with the end of Abraham's life and the offering of Isaac upon the altar. This was the last appearance of God to this man, and James says, in essence, "Now here is the example of what faith has done in this man's life - it has brought him to make the supreme sacrifice."
Look again at James 2:21: "Was not Abraham, our father, justified by works, when he had offered Isaac, his son, upon the altar?" Now in what way does the offering of Isaac reveal the fact that Abraham was justified by works? To see this clearly, we need to notice some very familiar facts. These interesting incidents took place toward the end of the life of Abraham when God called upon him to make the great sacrifice - which was the supreme crisis in his life.
God's Test - Genesis 22.
"And it came to pass after these things, that God did test Abraham" ( Genesis 22:1). The King James Version uses the word "tempt," but the New Scofield Reference Bible changes it to "test." I know that it's the same Greek word that you will find for "tempt," but you will also recall that James says,
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man. ( James 1:13)
Now when a man is tempted with evil, it is never God tempting him; it is Satan. God does not tempt men with evil; He tempts them with the good. He tests men in that sense. God's tests always lead to discipline and development of Christian character and life, while the tests and temptations of Satan always lead to the destruction of the life of the individual. Here we see that Abraham is being tested of God for his own good.
Part 7. J Vernon Mcgee. (Paul and James View Works)
When it comes to the word works, surely Paul and James must mean the same thing, do they not? No, they absolutely do not. When Paul speaks of works, he speaks of the works of the Law. I wonder if you have ever noticed that? Will you listen to him,
Therefore, by the deeds [or works] of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight; for by the law is the knowledge of sin. ( Romans 3:20)
So, it is clear that when Paul is talking about works, he is talking about the works of the Law. Then turn to Galatians 2:16 where we read, "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." Here again Paul is talking about the works of the Law.
But James talks about the works of faith. Could he be any more explicit than when he says,
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith [not the works of the Law, but that which faith produces] without works is dead? ( James 2:20)
Therefore, if man's faith does not produce works, that man's faith is dead. Here we find that the two men have two extremely different sources of works in mind. James, that of faith; Paul, that of the Law.
Paul and James Use Abraham to Illustrate.
At this point, let's bring the teaching of these two men to bear upon the life of God's great servant, Abraham, in the question of justification, for we find both Paul and James using Abraham as an example. This is of keen interest as we see that Paul lets us look at Abraham when God made His first appearance to him, and James goes to the end of his life when God made His seventh and last appearance to Abraham. Paul goes back to the birth of Isaac and the time when God called Abraham - at which time this man had no works and had very feeble faith, but nonetheless a faith sufficient to move out with God. And when he moved out with God, he was justified by faith.-
Part 6. J Vernon Mcgee. (Paul and James View Faith.)
One of the greatest dangers for preachers of the gospel is that we like to see people converted, and we are willing to accept a brazen and flippant yes from some individual who says, "Yes, I'll trust Jesus." However, it might be just an impertinent, impudent, and insolent nod of the head; it is so easy today to be as phony as a three-dollar bill. James says, "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone" ( James 2:17). Therefore, even though he uses the word faith, James means faithfulness - a faith that makes you faithful before men.
A minister once asked a man who professed conversion, "Have you united with the church?"
"No, I haven't," the man replied. "The dying thief never united with the church, and he went to heaven."
The minister asked, "Have you ever sat at the Lord's table?"
"No, the dying thief never did, and he was accepted," was the man's answer.
The minister asked, "Have you been baptized?"
"No," he said, "the dying thief was never baptized, and he went to heaven."
"Have you given to missions?"
"No, the dying thief did not give to missions, and he was not judged for it," was the reply.
Then this disgusted minister said to the man, "Well, my friend, the difference between you two seems to be that he was a dying thief and you are a living thief."
Part 5. J Vernon Mcgee. (Paul and James View Justification.)
Therefore, we see that when Paul uses the term justification he is talking about a man's relationship with God; when James uses the same term, he is talking about a man's relationship with the world. One is perpendicular, and the other is horizontal.
Paul and James View Faith.
The same procedure runs true in their use of the term faith. Again, they mean something different. When Paul talks of faith he is talking about that which is toward God. Paul says that saving faith - a faith that is genuine and real - will transform a person's life. Paul said of himself,
But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. ( Philippians 3:7)
A real revolution took place in his life when he came to Christ. Looking again at Galatians 3:6, we read that "as Abraham believed Godit was accounted to him for righteousness." And then in Romans:
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. ( Romans 4:5)
Paul is speaking here of that which we bring to God. The only thing that a sinner can bring to God is faith in Jesus Christ. When James writes about this, he is not talking about faith toward God but about the works of faith. So Paul is talking about the root of faith, and James is talking about the fruit of faith, but they are both defending the citadel of faith.
Here in James 2:14.
James is not talking about the works of the Law. The faith that James is talking about here is professing faith, that which is phony and counterfeit. Paul refers to the same idea when he says in 1 Corinthians 15:2, "unless ye have believed in vain." Paul also wrote, "Examine yourselves, whether you are in the faith" ( 2 Corinthians 13:5). James simply says that the faith which saves you will produce works-"works of faith.
J Vernon Mcgee. (Paul vs. James in the Use of Words)
Examining the context.
Therefore, the confusion rests in a misunderstanding of their use of the three words: justify, faith, and works. If we understand what each means in his use of these three words, we shall find out that Paul and James are not in conflict.
Paul and James View Justification.
In the interest of clarity, let us find out what Paul and James really meant when they used these three terms.
The first term to come before us is justified or justification. When Paul uses this term it always means justified in God's sight. He speaks of how the sinner down here is made right with God. He is never justified by works before God, but he is justified by faith in Jesus Christ. That is the only thing that God accepts. In fact, Paul makes it very clear:
For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath something of which to glory, but not before God. ( Romans 4:2)
So we see that when Paul uses the word justification he is thinking of the sinner's position in connection with and before God.
Now when James uses the term justification he is not thinking of it as being before God at all. Rather, he is thinking of justification before men - how a Christian is justified before men - and he makes that clear:
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works; show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works. ( James 2:18)
In other words, James says, "I am talking here about justification for people who don't believe it until they see it. I am talking about justification before men." Then he makes that perfectly clear again, for a little later he writes,
Ye see [not God sees, but ye see], then, that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. ( James 2:24)
See Part 5. J Vernon Mcgee. (Paul and James View Justification.)
Vs 14-18. And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovah-jireh, as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen. And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD; for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son; That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the seashore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed, because thou hast obeyed my voice.
Was Abraham justified by works? Yes.
Scripture says that he was justified by works. ( James 2:21-24)
Do we have here a contradiction to the apostle Paul? Did not Paul say that Abraham was justified by faith - not by works? Paul makes a very specific statement in Romans:
"For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath something of which to glory, but not before God. ( Romans 4:2)
Then over in Galatians 3:6 we read, "Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."
Is Paul and James writings in conflict on this point? NO!
Here is an article by J Vernon Mcgee explaining this Paradox.
Paul vs. James in the Use of Words.
May I hasten to state that Paul and James do not conflict at all. They are in entire agreement. As someone has said, "Paul and James do not stand face to face, fighting against each other, but they stand back to back fighting opposite foes." The whole problem lies in the fact that they use the same words, but with a different meaning altogether. They are discussing the same subject from different viewpoints. This you will find upon examining the context.
See Part 4.
J Vernon Mcgee. (Paul vs. James in the Use of Words)
We aa Christians should examine ourselves, "Not by what we do or by what we don't do or what we know, But by Who we have! Christ!
I'd we have Christ Spirit the inside of our vessels will be cleansed.
Then we can wash one another feet.
( Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1:4-8.
Great discussion Brethren! Salvation only through faith by grace in the gospel of the LORD JESUS CHRIST. Then our works shows our salvation. Ephesians 2:10 as well as many other verses.
GOD to shine HIS face on all who trust and believe in HIM.
I often hear anti-works messages quoting Ephesians 2:8-9, but they leave out the very next verse 10 which says:
"For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." Ephesians 2:10 KJV
We were created to do good works, but some like to shame others and claim that doing good works is bad because they assume it somehow takes away from grace, or assume effort is bad, assume there's instructions against it. Then oddly, they don't shame bad works though. They just say being bad is fine because its covered by grace, even if done intentionally, even if to harm others to the maximum degree, with no limits apparently, even blaspheming the holy spirit?, contrary to the scriptures. Someone has to ignore so many scriptures in the Bible to arrive at this conclusion and to massively cherry pick, like plucking out Eph 2, 8-9, but ignoring 10, ignoring James 2:17.
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." Matthew 5:16 KJV
Jesus said this. But this is like kryptonite to the anti-works group. They'd rather it say let your darkness shine that they may see your bad works, then they'd be ok with it?
Obviously satan is behind the distorting of the truth. He always twists everything to deceive people to believe the opposite is true. Imagine being a Christian and truly believing that its bad to follow Christ. Yet, I've seen comments even on this forum where people sometimes say this. We must be on our guard so we can discern truth from lies. 1 Peter 5:8
I feel led to post this info to counter anyone who may be indoctrinated by the false teachings. The best remedy is to read the Bible, not cherry pick. I don't know how anyone can read the entire Bible and come to the conclusion that pleasing God is bad, and disobeying Him is good. No one should expect to be saved if they are not even following Christ- not a Christian.
You have just said in prior post that you have never met one believer that has not sinned in some way as a believer. Here's the great problem of those which justifies themselves as keepers of the Sabbath day according to the letter of the Law, for as said James in his universal epistle- James 2:10- , "whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all". What more does the Word of GOD say? Romans 2:12 ->... as many as have sinned in the Law shall be Judged by the Law, therefore, he who sins in the Law becomes guilty of all, then by the Law he will be condemned for sure. Galatians 3:11 - ...no man is justified by the Law in the sight of GOD it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Galatians 5:4 - Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the Law; ye are fallen from grace.(are wretchad)
Galatians 3:8-10
8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that GOD would justify the Gentiles through faith(not by the Law), preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
10 For as many as are of the works of the Law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the Law to do them.
Romans 7:6 - But now we are delivered from the Law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Hebrews 4:
12 For the Word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom WE MUST RENDER AN ACCOUNT.
God states that those who say there is no God are fools ( Psalm 14:1-2). I suppose I should capitalize the word atheism as it indeed is a belief system or "religion" albeit man made. Even the demons believe and shudder as James 2:19 states.
From a purely logical and scientific level; of course any such logic is seriously flawed. First of all not believing in God (as opposed to being "agnostic" removes any hope of life after death that is verifiable). God in His infinite wisdom has allowed such items as the shroud of Turin that seems to defy logic and appears to be the image of Christ Himself. The integrity of the scriptures prophesying Jesus' birth death and resurrection and future ramifications are hard to argue against; and the lack of any body found are pretty clear indications of the Resurrection. The deaths of all the martryrs (12 Disciples) which except for John were martyred would be for naught if the Resurrection weren't real.
We also can't explain things such as decay from the second law of thermodynamics if indeed evolution is true and things evolved to MORE complex structure and order from lesser; and we can't prove so many of these "missing links" which when not turning out to be proven fraud (such as with "Piltdown man") often are proven to be separate genus or even kingdoms of animal species. When we see the ancient giant structures of great complexity which are being discovered all the time the concept of man being primitive also is challenged; and the story of fallen angels and their offspring of "men of renown" seems the likely answer for such large building blocks and scientifically complex structures pointing to the stars. ( Gen. 6:4).
Our own moral structure proves to any objective outside observer at least to be sorely deficient; we are incapable of externally keeping the law and our hearts don't have the desire to serve selflessly or to worship our Creator. Surely the complexity in nature proves a Creator.
Part 3
This spirit is not the person, nor is it immortal or eternal, nor does it have a conscious existence when the person dies. Those of us who have the Holy Spirit in us, Romans 8:11, But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you, this is the Spirit of God, for those in Jesus Christ, this happens at resurrection.
In Psalms 16:7 David said the LORD has given him counsel; this is his spirit communicating with God, as Paul calls it in 2 Corinthians 4:16 the inward man. Peter describes it as the hidden man of the heart, 1 Peter 3:4. When God communicates with us, it is not with our mind; it's a Spirit-to-spirit communication.
God gives the human a spirit, some believe it is at conception, Zechariah 12:1, Isaiah 12:5. We know He takes it back at the time of death, Ecclesiastes 12:7. Psalm 104:29, thou takest away their breath, they die, the Hebrew word for breath is ruach, it also means spirit. James 2:26, the body without the spirit is dead. All consciousness ends when we die. Psalm 6:5, Job 14:12-14, Job 17:13-16. Psalm 115:17. Ecclesiastes 9:5-10. We sleep in death until resurrection day, the day of redemption. 1 Corinthians 15:51-54, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-15.
The Bible tells us a spirit can be good, bad, or broken, Psalm 34:18, God cares for us and wants to help mend our brokenness, Isaiah 41:10. When we do not have rule over our spirit, we can go so bad that God turns one over to a reprobate mind as we see in Romans 1:18-32, the door is shut. With God's Spirit, the Holy Spirit, we in our spirit grow in our faith and have comfort in His presence.
See part 4
James 2:19
Thoubelievest that there is one God; thou doest well: thedevilsalsobelieve, and tremble.
We must use our heart to BELIEVE....
Romans 10:10
For with theheartman believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Ray, in Christ Jesus 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 believing with the heart
Concerning a Friday crucifixion or Sunday resurrection, I won't get into that here, except to quote Luke 24:1, "Now upon the first day of the week.." And that is a Sunday, which follows the seventh day of the week, a Saturday/Sabbath.
You did well to quote Galatians 5:18-25: showing that we are not under the Law, which means that we are free from its ultimate purpose: that of revealing human spiritual & mental frailty & resulting condemnation. If we break even one Law, we have broken all & remain condemned ( James 2:10). There was nothing wrong at all with the Law ( Romans 7:12), but its purpose was to lead men to Christ, not to be resurrected again by those now in Christ as some sort of rule book to follow & please God by. The only way to please the LORD is to do His Will, following the dictates of His Holy Spirit He has given us. If we use the Decalogue as some sort of yardstick to measure our spiritual standard & acceptance to God, then we have failed & missed the whole point of Christ's Sacrifice & the great matchless worth of the New Covenant in His Blood. Thank you for your time.
The following also adequately supports my position. However there are numerous other examples I could share, notwithstanding, Jesus Himself tells all men to keep God's 10 Commandments.
Many, many preachers teach falsity and lies. Some out of ignorance and others out of greed. Just as many listen to them and don't do their own due diligence to verify what they are told is truth.
James 2:18 Context
15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Furthermore, I can show definitive proof using scripture that Jesus was not Crucified or buried on a Friday, nor did Jesus rise on Sunday. A Friday Crucifixion and Sunday Resurrection is given as the basis for most Sunday observing denominations in holding Sunday in regard rather than God's Commanded Sabbath. However they err in doing so and as I said, I can demonstrate using scripture why they err in this.
By Jack Hyles
"What must I do to be saved?" "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved"! There is God's plan of salvation, the only plan He has for every man, woman and child who was ever born into the whole world.
Believe On The Lord Jesus Christ
Here is God's simple way to be saved. You are a sinner, your heart is wrong, you cannot save yourself, you are already condemned. The thing you are to do then, to be saved, is to simply trust the Lord Jesus with that matter. When you do trust Him, then you have God's promise, "Thou shalt be saved."
I do not mean that you are simply to believe that there is a God or that there is a Saviour. Devils believe that and tremble ( James 2:19).
You can believe that a certain physician is a good doctor [without calling him to be your doctor] when you are sick. You can believe that a certain man is a good lawyer without taking him as your lawyer to defend your case. You are not just to believe the truth about Jesus; you are to believe on Him, that is, depend upon Him, risk Him, trust Him; and when you do, you are saved.
By: Dr. John R. Rice
COME LORD JESUS
Thank you, brother, I know many have your understanding of this, and defining the difference between the soul and the spirit is difficult, in Scripture they seem to be interchangeable, at least it is for me. Salvation is not dependent on this, we know we are sealed and secure in Jesus regardless of what happens when we die.
In Genesis 2:7 Adam became a living being/soul the Hebrew word nephesh, in the New Testament it is the word psyche. My understanding this is who we are, our senses, desires, affections, appetites, intellect, and memories. The soul, who we are can be killed, Matthew 10:28. My understanding when we die is the soul/who we are, is asleep with our body in the grave, and is resurrected either to eternity with Jesus or is killed in the lake of fire.
Man cannot kill our soul all souls belong to God Ezekiel 18:4. God has offered a way of salvation for souls that are doomed to die, Hebrews 9:27. And we are told we can walk in the world or walk in the Spirit and Jesus told us the consequences, Matthew 16:26.
Spirit both the Hebrew word ruach and the Greek word pneuma translated as spirit have the concept of breath or wind at their roots. This part of us can be alive or dead Ephesians 2:4-5. The most enter part of us that connects or refuses to connect to God, like a radio receiver and it gives life to the body, Psalm 104:29 James 2:26.
This is what returns to God when we die, there is no more communication our fate is set after we die our soul is asleep in death until we are resurrected, Daniel 12:2. I know you said you do not know Plato, Greek philosophy, many in those days were influenced, the spirit or soul is immortal and the descriptions of an underworld. I believe Jesus took parts of these fables and used them as subject matter in this parable.
My understanding the spirit does not have a body it gives life to the body, and we are resurrected and given an eternal spirit.
Thanks again, God bless,
RLW
in the same way,if a person tells there spouse or whatever,I love you,.then do nothing to physically show it.the words are meaningless.the words should be a result of past tense not before it happens same with Faith
does she not love for love, does she not deserve it..
3 basic steps to show Faith n love to the Holy
1st is where it starts..in the thoughts,stay away from all the nasty stuff,dont cuss foul language etc
2nd is give to someone or something in need whenever possible or however possible
3rd is Extremely Important.. Do Not Work On Sundays.
that means no lawn care or any personal gain
It is the Lords Day
Let's go again and examine Abraham's faith..
Romans 4:2-4, "2For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt."
Above it says that Abraham was justified by his faith. Let's see how James describes Abraham's justification.
James 2:21-22, "21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?"
In contrast? No,not really. What James says is that a working faith must result in good works, otherwise it is considered dead, v26, "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."
Is James talking to atheists or christians? Definitely his epistle is addressed to christians. What does he tell them? That their faith must produce works in order for them to be justified
Since some of us hold the idea that if we are regenerated and the Spirit of God dwells in us, then it is inevitable for us to produce works, then we must explain, "was Abraham somehow obliged by his faith to sacrifice his son or it was up to him, his free will, to decide whether he wanted to sacrifice Isaac or not? The answer is that it was up to him. He could had decided not to sacrifice Isaac. It was entirely up to him, not to God. God had nothing to do with his decision to obey or not.
Similarly our obedience to God and the subsequent production of works in our life is not an automatic process like somehow we are programmed to do works, but it is entirely up to us. We can, but we can not do what the Spirit commands. When are we justified? When we decide to have works that result from our obedience to do what we read in the Bible. Otherwise our faith is in vain, dead, resulting in no salvation. All that is not on God, it is on us
Yes,certainly,as you said,GOD HIMSELF manifested himself to the Hebrews through the OT;which was written by the twenty-four elders,starting with Moses,understand?By the way,JESUS said GOD is Spirit- John 4:24-,what is the name of the invisible Spirit of GOD?Well,GOD had said in the beginning- Genesis 1:26(the beginning is JESUS,who is the LITERAL IMAGE of GOD,He is GOD)-, yes, GOD had said:"Let us make man in OUR image,after OUR likeness", then, both are One, and as we can see, since ancient times, since Genesis, GOD revealed He would be made flesh.
By the prophet Isaiah,who is one of the 24 elders,GOD again revealed He would be made flesh, and around 2000 years ago He LITERALLY fulfilled His promise- John 1:14-and what is the NAME that GOD chose for He Himself? The NAME that GOD chose for He Himself was/is JESUS - JOSHUA-. Luke 1:26-the angel GABRIEL was sent FROM GOD(the Word is GOD,GOD Himself,self-executing) unto a city of Galilee,named Nazareth,and said to Mary:behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a SON, and shalt call his NAME JESUS. He shall be great, and called the Son of the Highest: the Lord GOD(the Word is GOD, GOD Himself, self-executing) shall give unto Him the throne of His father David.
Remember: The Jews said to JESUS: John 8:41-we have one Father, even God. And JESUS said to the Devil, father of the Jews-Yahweh:It is written,Man shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY WORD that proceedeth out of the MOUTH OF GOD-Mat.4:4.
Psalms 110:1combined with Hebrews 1:8(plus Matthew 25:11, James 2:1, Isaiah 49:14, Luke 20:42, 1 Corinthians 9:1) -
GOD said to the Lord JESUS:Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy Kingdom.
KJV Psalms 83:18, Isaiah 12:2, Exodus 6:3, Isaiah 26:4 LORD=JEHOVAH; ->JEHOVAH is another esoteric and kabbalistic and spiritist nickname of the father of the Jews.
Luke 16:5 lord=a King or one of authority,yes, see John 18:37.
In KJV there are 3 different uses of the name. LORD and Lord and lord. Psalms 110:1(A Psalm of David.) The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. I think this explains it best.
KJV Psalms 83:18, Isaiah 12:2 , Exodus 6:3, Isaiah 26:4 LORD = GOD JEHOVAH, LORD GOD of Israel
KJV Psalms 110:1, Matthew 25:11, James 2:1, Isaiah 49:14, Luke 20:42, 1 Corinthians 9:1 Lord = Jesus
KJV 2 Samuel 24:3, Luke 16:5 lord = a King or one of authority
I actually found the Psalms answer on u-tube form someone studying the KJV 1611 he was proving the KJV is the true word of GOD and just so happened to answer my question at the same time. I added these verses I found because I didn't mention any books or verses in my original question because it is every translation in Old Testament I compared no matter which book or verse. And I also found this.
Yahweh is the name of Israel's God and the God who came to earth as Jesus Christ, Yahweh in the flesh. Matthew 1:21 says, "She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins." The name Jesus is from the Latin form of the Greek form of Yeshua, which literally means "Yahweh saves." So Yahweh will save His people from their sins, and simultaneously Jesus will save His people from their sins. This is just one of many instances where Jesus and Yahweh are equated.
James 2:9-12: James is writing in these verses about those who would "keep (fully obey) the whole law", yet go astray even by committing one sin in a moment of time, having demonstrated their inability to keep (continually uphold) the Law as required. "So speak ye ( James 1:26), and so do ( James 2:17), as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty (the Law believers are under, 2 Corinthians 2:17, Galatians 5:1, James 1:25)". The Law of Liberty, can also be referred to the Law of the Spirit Who gives Liberty ( 2 Corinthians 3:17, Romans 8:2), assures our hearts that we are accepted of the Lord because we have been forgiven & the Gift of the Holy Spirit continually ministers to our hearts & lives to help us live holy lives or lead us/discipline us when we stray off course.
This Liberty, the Law could never give - Israel always remained fearful of it, eventually leading them into idolatry & debauchery, but to those IN Christ Jesus there is now no condemnation who walk after the Spirit ( Romans 8:1) - we should not be bound to the letter that had as its goal to expose & destroy souls, but to the Spirit Who gives Power & Life to obey God perfectly, "hating even the garment spotted by the flesh" ( Jude 1:23). Only the Laws given us by the Spirit to our hearts cover every area of our lives, ministering to us in His Way (& not in human strength), so we can live above the letter's demands but as new creations in Christ. There was nothing wrong with the 10 Commandments, for they are from God & His Truth - but they were for Israel alone, for their conduct before God & man, to show them their sin, God's requirements, & prepare them to approach God in Love, Truth, & Faith. All who did at that time were accepted by their faith alone ( Hebrews 11:39,40) & not on how well they kept the Law. Romans 8:3,4 (we allow the righteousness of the Law to work & be fulfilled in us by God's Spirit - never appealing to the letter, which is devoid of life). Every blessing.
When I refer to the law I am only referencing the 10 commandments. It's my sense that you are saying that the law was purely for the Jews only, does that includes the 10 commandments? if you are saying that the 10 commands were only for the Jews then I do have some questions:
A) What standard do the gentiles follow in order to live righteous lives for God if not the commandments?
B) What are the imputed laws that Jesus expects us to obey?
C) There are so many verses in the new testament that deal with obeying the commandments, like the two below. What do you believe they are telling us?
Romans 2:12-13
All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but it is the doers of the law who will be declared righteous.
James 2:10
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. God Bless :0
Thanks for responding.
I'm glad you are able to have some relief and comfort.
Seventh-day Adventists is a denomination that differ in a few areas than most other denominations, the most notable is the Sabbath day.
Example.
They are distinguished by their observance of Saturday/Sabbath "Day"
The commandment for the Sabbath is found in Exodus 20"8-11.
Notice here in Exodus 31:13-18.
who it was written to.
"Speak thou also unto the CHILDREN OF ISRAEL, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout YOUR GENERATIONS; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Wherefore the CHILDREN OF ISRAEL shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
IT IS A SIGN BETWEEN ME AND THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed. And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.
If we're applying sound hermeneutics we must consider who this is written to and coordinate this with other scriptures.
Example.
James 2:10. "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Also, Colossians 2:16-17.
"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
See part 2.
In general; prayer is often answered when it isn't a "no or later" situation through other means and individuals than we in our puny minds can comprehend. It seems from my experience there are those who are obsessed in wanting to meet the needs of others (i.e. a gift of service) and others (probably more like myself) who like to offer some thought provoking scriptural concept or parable like statement to make people think. What I mean is; in my inherant selfishness; I am not obsessed like those aforementioned gifted believers with a gift of service or helps to always meet people's needs up front and right away.
This isn't getting me out of the pit I'm digging for myself...but I'm making a point (I think). Sometimes at least I hope; there is some merit to being abstract in some regard at least in not always having to be the one to fix the problem. That leaves me with my own issues of having to push myself to be as giving as a lot of others but obviously that is my problem not that of the audience (I will presume innocent until proven otherwise in that regard).
Okay; enough of the "Pauline" sarcasm. In having wisdom and being wise as serpents; innocent as doves we wrestle out our existence. ( Matthew 10:16). With prayer of course we are to take appropriate action when we can so we don't be as the person in James 2:16 and not be an answered prayer OURSELVES to someone in their misery. We can't give away all our money in the same token unless it is our own volition and to fulfill the Great Commission unless it is for dire need or our family interests (even that with caution). All of this is to say that indeed we need as the Body of Christ not to be overly lazy or overly burdened to the extent that the individual in Phillippians 2:27 was who Paul mentioned.
Prayer usually involves a marathon effort but sometimes is answered as a sprint. Sometimes God works miracles without obvious prayer
Part 4 and final.
Clarity on shunning.
Scripturally, excluding a person from the church is preceded by admonition and counsel; it is only employed in cases of bona fide heresy, obdurate divisiveness, or blatant, unrepentant sin; and it is a last resort. After excommunication, the relationship between the former member and the church naturally changes, and the "shunning command"-not to eat with such a person-may come into play. However, the church still has the responsibility to pray for the one being disciplined and to extend forgiveness when repentance is evident. Shunning, as defined as a refusal to speak to someone or a total severing of all ties, goes beyond what the Bible advocates.
PARTIALITY.
This is another evil we see amongst believers.
The chapter of James 2 covers this. ( James 2:1-26)
Let's take on just a few verses.
If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
So, speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
James 2:8-13.
That is all for now.
God bless.
These verses at the end of the Bible and representing the end of the wicked is the end result of those who won't heed to warnings such as 1 Corinthians 6:9-11; see also Galatians 5:19; Ephesians 5:5 and many other scriptures on the subject. We do well to heed to what was said in the last verse of 1 Corinthians 6 of this reference (v. 11) where it states that some were this but they have been sanctified and justified.
There are several issues here that I feel need to be addressed. First is the difference between a sinful lapse; a sinful habit and a sinful lifestyle. All three of these behaviors could be attributed to nonbelievers; albeit in today's society there would be few that would care about a slip up except perhaps some atheists who hold to what they consider a moral standard superior to much of society. Clearly as a Christian we shouldn't play games with God with any type of sin. The third category; however is something that must be abandoned; otherwise there is no fruit of our salvation. Also we undestand that breaking the law in one area makes us guilty of breaking it all ( James 2:10). Often one sin leads to another; whether it is abuse or abandonment of a family due to the greed of a gambling addiction (something which is being advertised currently in local media); or murder stemming from the bad fruit of adultery or fornication that usually is also tied to greed or jealousy; etc.
The word "fearful" in Revelation 21:8 is in many translations "cowardly". It results when men fear man over God which we are to have a healthy fear of and ignores ( Proverbs 29:25). Wanting the praise of men is at least equally if not worse because it compromises our bold witness against sin ( John 12:43).
"And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:" James 2:3 KJV
The people in the back should be sitting in the front. The very front so they can get the help and support they need and become stronger and overcome. The people in the back might be struggling with very weighty issues and those with the weightest of issues need to sit closest to the front. So that the stronger ones can pray for them and show their love, support and compassion with hopes of making those that were sitting in the back that are now in the very front, overcomers.
Respectfully submitted in the name of our precious Lord and Savior Jesus, the Christ.
As with anything that comes into our minds, whether to lie, lust or whatever, when we it begins to take hold, to affect our minds & consciences, we must deal with it speedily, in the power of the Spirit lest it becomes sin & we offend our Heavenly Father. Yet, there is forgiveness if we earnestly repent of it & seek to cast it aside ( 1 John 1:9).
Faith with works for justification? No!
I don't quite understand where you are coming from.
However, as James and Paul is saying "Saviing Faith produces good works.
James said he will sho you his Faith by his works. James 2:18. Paul is saying the same thing throughout his epistles.
You mentioned fruit and quoted John 15:5. "Without me you can do nothing"
I believe I delivered that in this thread as well.
Again I am not quite understanding your rebuttal. I haven't read your material so I don't know your take on Justification and Sanctification.
Perhaps you could share your understanding.
God bless.
Part 8. J Vernon Mcgee. (Paul and James Use Abraham to Illustrate.)
So Paul's example has to do with the early part of Abraham's life. When James presents his argument, we find that he deals with the end of Abraham's life and the offering of Isaac upon the altar. This was the last appearance of God to this man, and James says, in essence, "Now here is the example of what faith has done in this man's life - it has brought him to make the supreme sacrifice."
Look again at James 2:21: "Was not Abraham, our father, justified by works, when he had offered Isaac, his son, upon the altar?" Now in what way does the offering of Isaac reveal the fact that Abraham was justified by works? To see this clearly, we need to notice some very familiar facts. These interesting incidents took place toward the end of the life of Abraham when God called upon him to make the great sacrifice - which was the supreme crisis in his life.
God's Test - Genesis 22.
"And it came to pass after these things, that God did test Abraham" ( Genesis 22:1). The King James Version uses the word "tempt," but the New Scofield Reference Bible changes it to "test." I know that it's the same Greek word that you will find for "tempt," but you will also recall that James says,
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man. ( James 1:13)
Now when a man is tempted with evil, it is never God tempting him; it is Satan. God does not tempt men with evil; He tempts them with the good. He tests men in that sense. God's tests always lead to discipline and development of Christian character and life, while the tests and temptations of Satan always lead to the destruction of the life of the individual. Here we see that Abraham is being tested of God for his own good.
See Part 9. God's Test - Genesis 22 continued.
Part 7. J Vernon Mcgee. (Paul and James View Works)
When it comes to the word works, surely Paul and James must mean the same thing, do they not? No, they absolutely do not. When Paul speaks of works, he speaks of the works of the Law. I wonder if you have ever noticed that? Will you listen to him,
Therefore, by the deeds [or works] of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight; for by the law is the knowledge of sin. ( Romans 3:20)
So, it is clear that when Paul is talking about works, he is talking about the works of the Law. Then turn to Galatians 2:16 where we read, "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." Here again Paul is talking about the works of the Law.
But James talks about the works of faith. Could he be any more explicit than when he says,
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith [not the works of the Law, but that which faith produces] without works is dead? ( James 2:20)
Therefore, if man's faith does not produce works, that man's faith is dead. Here we find that the two men have two extremely different sources of works in mind. James, that of faith; Paul, that of the Law.
Paul and James Use Abraham to Illustrate.
At this point, let's bring the teaching of these two men to bear upon the life of God's great servant, Abraham, in the question of justification, for we find both Paul and James using Abraham as an example. This is of keen interest as we see that Paul lets us look at Abraham when God made His first appearance to him, and James goes to the end of his life when God made His seventh and last appearance to Abraham. Paul goes back to the birth of Isaac and the time when God called Abraham - at which time this man had no works and had very feeble faith, but nonetheless a faith sufficient to move out with God. And when he moved out with God, he was justified by faith.-
Part 6. J Vernon Mcgee. (Paul and James View Faith.)
One of the greatest dangers for preachers of the gospel is that we like to see people converted, and we are willing to accept a brazen and flippant yes from some individual who says, "Yes, I'll trust Jesus." However, it might be just an impertinent, impudent, and insolent nod of the head; it is so easy today to be as phony as a three-dollar bill. James says, "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone" ( James 2:17). Therefore, even though he uses the word faith, James means faithfulness - a faith that makes you faithful before men.
A minister once asked a man who professed conversion, "Have you united with the church?"
"No, I haven't," the man replied. "The dying thief never united with the church, and he went to heaven."
The minister asked, "Have you ever sat at the Lord's table?"
"No, the dying thief never did, and he was accepted," was the man's answer.
The minister asked, "Have you been baptized?"
"No," he said, "the dying thief was never baptized, and he went to heaven."
"Have you given to missions?"
"No, the dying thief did not give to missions, and he was not judged for it," was the reply.
Then this disgusted minister said to the man, "Well, my friend, the difference between you two seems to be that he was a dying thief and you are a living thief."
See Part 7 (Paul and James View Works)
Part 5. J Vernon Mcgee. (Paul and James View Justification.)
Therefore, we see that when Paul uses the term justification he is talking about a man's relationship with God; when James uses the same term, he is talking about a man's relationship with the world. One is perpendicular, and the other is horizontal.
Paul and James View Faith.
The same procedure runs true in their use of the term faith. Again, they mean something different. When Paul talks of faith he is talking about that which is toward God. Paul says that saving faith - a faith that is genuine and real - will transform a person's life. Paul said of himself,
But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. ( Philippians 3:7)
A real revolution took place in his life when he came to Christ. Looking again at Galatians 3:6, we read that "as Abraham believed Godit was accounted to him for righteousness." And then in Romans:
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. ( Romans 4:5)
Paul is speaking here of that which we bring to God. The only thing that a sinner can bring to God is faith in Jesus Christ. When James writes about this, he is not talking about faith toward God but about the works of faith. So Paul is talking about the root of faith, and James is talking about the fruit of faith, but they are both defending the citadel of faith.
Here in James 2:14.
James is not talking about the works of the Law. The faith that James is talking about here is professing faith, that which is phony and counterfeit. Paul refers to the same idea when he says in 1 Corinthians 15:2, "unless ye have believed in vain." Paul also wrote, "Examine yourselves, whether you are in the faith" ( 2 Corinthians 13:5). James simply says that the faith which saves you will produce works-"works of faith.
See Part 6. Paul and James View Faith.
Part 4.
J Vernon Mcgee. (Paul vs. James in the Use of Words)
Examining the context.
Therefore, the confusion rests in a misunderstanding of their use of the three words: justify, faith, and works. If we understand what each means in his use of these three words, we shall find out that Paul and James are not in conflict.
Paul and James View Justification.
In the interest of clarity, let us find out what Paul and James really meant when they used these three terms.
The first term to come before us is justified or justification. When Paul uses this term it always means justified in God's sight. He speaks of how the sinner down here is made right with God. He is never justified by works before God, but he is justified by faith in Jesus Christ. That is the only thing that God accepts. In fact, Paul makes it very clear:
For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath something of which to glory, but not before God. ( Romans 4:2)
So we see that when Paul uses the word justification he is thinking of the sinner's position in connection with and before God.
Now when James uses the term justification he is not thinking of it as being before God at all. Rather, he is thinking of justification before men - how a Christian is justified before men - and he makes that clear:
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works; show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works. ( James 2:18)
In other words, James says, "I am talking here about justification for people who don't believe it until they see it. I am talking about justification before men." Then he makes that perfectly clear again, for a little later he writes,
Ye see [not God sees, but ye see], then, that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. ( James 2:24)
See Part 5. J Vernon Mcgee. (Paul and James View Justification.)
Part 3
ABRAHAM.
Genesis 22:1-18.
Vs 14-18. And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovah-jireh, as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen. And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD; for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son; That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the seashore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed, because thou hast obeyed my voice.
Was Abraham justified by works? Yes.
Scripture says that he was justified by works. ( James 2:21-24)
Do we have here a contradiction to the apostle Paul? Did not Paul say that Abraham was justified by faith - not by works? Paul makes a very specific statement in Romans:
"For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath something of which to glory, but not before God. ( Romans 4:2)
Then over in Galatians 3:6 we read, "Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."
Is Paul and James writings in conflict on this point? NO!
Here is an article by J Vernon Mcgee explaining this Paradox.
Paul vs. James in the Use of Words.
May I hasten to state that Paul and James do not conflict at all. They are in entire agreement. As someone has said, "Paul and James do not stand face to face, fighting against each other, but they stand back to back fighting opposite foes." The whole problem lies in the fact that they use the same words, but with a different meaning altogether. They are discussing the same subject from different viewpoints. This you will find upon examining the context.
See Part 4.
J Vernon Mcgee. (Paul vs. James in the Use of Words)
That's what James 2:18 is saying.
We aa Christians should examine ourselves, "Not by what we do or by what we don't do or what we know, But by Who we have! Christ!
I'd we have Christ Spirit the inside of our vessels will be cleansed.
Then we can wash one another feet.
( Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1:4-8.
God bless.
GOD to shine HIS face on all who trust and believe in HIM.
January 16, 2024
"For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." Ephesians 2:10 KJV
We were created to do good works, but some like to shame others and claim that doing good works is bad because they assume it somehow takes away from grace, or assume effort is bad, assume there's instructions against it. Then oddly, they don't shame bad works though. They just say being bad is fine because its covered by grace, even if done intentionally, even if to harm others to the maximum degree, with no limits apparently, even blaspheming the holy spirit?, contrary to the scriptures. Someone has to ignore so many scriptures in the Bible to arrive at this conclusion and to massively cherry pick, like plucking out Eph 2, 8-9, but ignoring 10, ignoring James 2:17.
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." Matthew 5:16 KJV
Jesus said this. But this is like kryptonite to the anti-works group. They'd rather it say let your darkness shine that they may see your bad works, then they'd be ok with it?
Obviously satan is behind the distorting of the truth. He always twists everything to deceive people to believe the opposite is true. Imagine being a Christian and truly believing that its bad to follow Christ. Yet, I've seen comments even on this forum where people sometimes say this. We must be on our guard so we can discern truth from lies. 1 Peter 5:8
I feel led to post this info to counter anyone who may be indoctrinated by the false teachings. The best remedy is to read the Bible, not cherry pick. I don't know how anyone can read the entire Bible and come to the conclusion that pleasing God is bad, and disobeying Him is good. No one should expect to be saved if they are not even following Christ- not a Christian.
Greetings in Christ JESUS
You have just said in prior post that you have never met one believer that has not sinned in some way as a believer. Here's the great problem of those which justifies themselves as keepers of the Sabbath day according to the letter of the Law, for as said James in his universal epistle- James 2:10- , "whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all". What more does the Word of GOD say? Romans 2:12 ->... as many as have sinned in the Law shall be Judged by the Law, therefore, he who sins in the Law becomes guilty of all, then by the Law he will be condemned for sure. Galatians 3:11 - ...no man is justified by the Law in the sight of GOD it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Galatians 5:4 - Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the Law; ye are fallen from grace.(are wretchad)
Galatians 3:8-10
8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that GOD would justify the Gentiles through faith(not by the Law), preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
10 For as many as are of the works of the Law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the Law to do them.
Romans 7:6 - But now we are delivered from the Law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Hebrews 4:
12 For the Word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom WE MUST RENDER AN ACCOUNT.
God states that those who say there is no God are fools ( Psalm 14:1-2). I suppose I should capitalize the word atheism as it indeed is a belief system or "religion" albeit man made. Even the demons believe and shudder as James 2:19 states.
From a purely logical and scientific level; of course any such logic is seriously flawed. First of all not believing in God (as opposed to being "agnostic" removes any hope of life after death that is verifiable). God in His infinite wisdom has allowed such items as the shroud of Turin that seems to defy logic and appears to be the image of Christ Himself. The integrity of the scriptures prophesying Jesus' birth death and resurrection and future ramifications are hard to argue against; and the lack of any body found are pretty clear indications of the Resurrection. The deaths of all the martryrs (12 Disciples) which except for John were martyred would be for naught if the Resurrection weren't real.
We also can't explain things such as decay from the second law of thermodynamics if indeed evolution is true and things evolved to MORE complex structure and order from lesser; and we can't prove so many of these "missing links" which when not turning out to be proven fraud (such as with "Piltdown man") often are proven to be separate genus or even kingdoms of animal species. When we see the ancient giant structures of great complexity which are being discovered all the time the concept of man being primitive also is challenged; and the story of fallen angels and their offspring of "men of renown" seems the likely answer for such large building blocks and scientifically complex structures pointing to the stars. ( Gen. 6:4).
Our own moral structure proves to any objective outside observer at least to be sorely deficient; we are incapable of externally keeping the law and our hearts don't have the desire to serve selflessly or to worship our Creator. Surely the complexity in nature proves a Creator.