I know when Jesus first came their eyes and ears were closed because the fullness of time had come, because they had gone so far away from God, judgment had been given on that generation. We see the similarity to that in Hosea, the temple was destroyed. I think we are on the same page with Matthew 23:39 as this happens with the fullness of the Gentiles.
When Jesus returns and sets up the kingdom on earth, they will call on Him as their Messiah and king. But my understanding is Hosea 5:15 God removed his glory from the sanctuary and the city for their unwillingness to repent and return to God the punishment was the destruction of the first temple and their captivity.
I may be a little slow but if you do not mind could you expand your meaning on "behold him as a nation" and how that relates to Matthew 23:39 or Hosea 5:15?
We are 100% in agreement that the blood of Christ is by which we are saved throughout eternity.
Israel, "through the house of Israel" will be saved by the same way they were saved on the OT.
(But not all.) So, in Romans 11:26 where it says And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, I believe it's those of the house of Israel who will except Christ finished work on the cross. Their blindness will be removed when they call on Christ in the tribulation. You see the church is never called the house of Israel.
In the OT, before the Church was formed, those who were saved, by faith they looked ahead with those ordinances pointing them to one who would come as their redeemer "Christ"
We look back at the Cross in faith for our redemption, In the Millennium kingdom those who are saved will do the same.
Those who are saved will look back at the finish work of Christ on the cross. Everything else is a memorial. sacrifices etc.
During the tribulation period Israel will be driven to call on their Messiah as prophesied in Hosea 5:15. Also in Matthew 23:39.
obviously, they seen him again, He's saying you won't behold him again as a Nation. (They will remain blinded) as mentioned in Luke 19:42.
You also see this mentioned clearly in Zechariah 13:6-9.
Peter makes mention of a future salvation for the Nation/house of Israel in Acts 15:9-11 when studying it carefully.
And James follows it up in verses 14-17.
Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
Sorry for such a delay. In Daniel 9:25 "Messiah the Prince"
What I was saying is it actually SAYS Messiah the king.
I didn't mean to say it's translated king from prince.
On Daniel 9:24-25. I agree with you when you say "These 6 things were determined upon Daniel's people, the lost sheep of Israel, and the holy city, Jerusalem. That's true!
Now here is where we disagree on Daniel 9:24-25. Seventy weeks are determined "UPON THY PEOPLE and upon thy holy city, DANIELS PEOPLE!
These six things wasn't accomplished for Daniels people at the cross because"Daniels people" rejected Jesus as savior.
Daniels people transgression and sin is specific.
They denied their king and savior who came at the appointed time!
This is what Hosea 5:15 is talking about.
"I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early.
This is also what Jesus is saying in Matthew 23:39. "For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord".
Of course they saw him again.
What Jesus is saying here is they won't behold him as a nation again until they say blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord!
That affliction will come in the 70th week.
When they turn to him then will those 6 things for "Daniels people" be accomplished.
Here is what I have as the middle of the 70th week. Revelation 13:4-5 "And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months".
In Matthew 24:3 When Jesus pointed his Desciples to Daniel 9 he was answering 2 of the 3 questions they asked him. "and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and the end of the world.
Obviously the "EVERLASTING" conditons described in scripture concerning the Abrahamic and Davidic Covenants.
Scriptures such as Isaiah 51:11 and many others don't exist of yet.
They are certainly back in the land but the wailing wall in Jerusalem reminds me of Matthew 27:25.
Also Matthew 23:38-39 seems to parallel with Hosea 5:15.
Does Israel disobedience void the UNCONDITIONAL COVENANT AND PROMISES?
According to Psalms 89:27-36. NO!
"My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.
His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.
If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;
If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;
Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.
Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, NOR SUFFER MY FAITHFULNESS TO FAIL.
( This is a marvelous saying! It's God's faithfulness that is on display!!)
MY COVENANT WILL I NOT BREAK, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.
Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David.
His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me."
Daniel has much to say about this in Daniel 9:24
"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy."
I was responding to an earlier reply of yours when you said there's no rapture verse in the Bible.
I believe I gave you verse
1 Thessalonians 4:17 "Then we which are alive and remain shall be CAUGHT UP together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord"
I didn't say it was a dispensational view.
It's a rapture verse used by Post and Pre-trib groups.
The debate issue is when it happens not if!
And that don't define dispensational as you say it do.
We're all saved by one way. Christ!
No matter the time period.
However We're not gathered with Israel as a Nation.
Paul makes that clear in Romans.
Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness "IN PART" is happened to Israel, UNTIL the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. ( That means temporarily Gigi )
Now here's a difficult verse that troubles most people.
Romans 11:26-27. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Paul is talking about his Kinsman of the flesh!
The Nation, when he take away their blindness.
Has the "Nation" turned to Christ? No.
Will they turn to Christ? Yes.
When? During the tribulation. "70 of Daniel"
THE TRIBULATION CENTERS AROUND ISRAEL.
I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge THEIR OFFENCE, and seek my face: IN THEIR AFFLICTION they will seek me early. Hosea 5:15.
THEIR OFFENCE IS REJECTING CHRIST!
He'll come when they call on him.
Matthew 23:39. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Israel represents the fig tree in scripture.
Hosea 9:10.
Jeremiah 24:2-3.
Joel 1:7.
This generation is a particular people of this time. (Israel)
Generations is used in that way in scripture as a particular people or Genealogy as seen in Genesis 5:1 and other places.
SO YOU KNOW IT IS NEAR WHEN YOU SEE ISRAEL START TO BLOSOM.
THAT DIDNT HAPPEN IN 70 AD.
Back to Daniel 9:24.
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Reconciliation. Jesus done that on the cross, but no one is reconciled until they believe. As a Nation Israel still rejects Christ and will continue until the tribulation. Hosea 5:15, Matthew 23:39.
To finish the transgression. That refers to Israel. Zachariah 12:10 "The last days.
to bring in everlasting righteousness.
To anoint the most Holy. I also believe that's the Holy of holiness. but I believe that is in the Millennium temple that Ezekiel is talking about in the 41st through the 46 chapter.
As I presented my view of a "to the day" accurate 69th weeks, I believe if one holds the view that there is no interval, and these weeks are consecutive. SEVERAL YEARS PAST BEFORE TITUS DESTROYED THE TEMPLE. 70weeks dosent add up.
This brings us to Matthews 23:37-39
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Notice vs 39. "Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord".
Now we know they saw him again so I believe this means to Behold him as a nation. Remember Luke 19:42.
Also see Hosea 5:15. I will go and return to my place, TILL THEY ACKNOWLEDGE THEIR OFFENCE, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early.
ISRAEL AS A NATION SIN IS THEIR REJECTION.
Paul hammers on this rejection, Blindness, and restoration in Romans 9,10,and 11.
Paul summarizes this very well in Romans 11:25-28.
PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO THIS, I BELIEVE IT STRENTHENS MY ARGUMENT DANIEL 9:24 HASNT HAPPENED YET.
"For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, AND SHALL TURN AWAY UNGODLYNESS FROM JACOB:
For this is my covenant unto them, WHEN I SHALL TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS.
As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching THE ELECTION, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
I think you, yourself have to determine how & if you fast. By your faith.
Isaiah 58, Galatians 2:6, Hebrews 11:6, James 1:5-7,
The problem, you've stated you have is considered 'high blood sugar' usually less sugar intake is better for your body. Less food would be less sugar, but that means don't take the same insulin amounts. You should talk about it with the people you're trusting that diagnosed you & prescribed medicine to you, if you're taking insulin.
I guess the first act of faith in fasting for you could be, eating healthy. Cut out unnecessary sugars.
Several fellowships do a 15 day no desserts. Some turn off TV, radio etc to take time to listen to GOD. Usually all fasts reading the Bible & praying more. Turning from sin, like things that displease GOD. Like abusing someone's own body: 1Corinthians 6:9-10,11, Romans 14:22,23, Philippians 3:9,
Hebrews 11,
Interestingly the Bible mentions taking off Kingly garments & putting on sackcloth with fasting: 1Kings 21:27, Daniel 9:3, Isaiah 37:1, Jonah 3:5-10,
(this is the chapter Daniel 9, that the fellowship, takes the 'no dessert' fast from.)
Matthew 6, praying & asking Luke 11:1-13,
Then extreme fasts, for extreme situations: Books of Esther, Matthew 17:14-21,
I think I did a commentary a few weeks ago on that subject. At any rate there are various lengths of time and types of fasts (such as Daniel eating only vegetables for a period of time; probably long term to avoid the Babylonian items probably offered to idols). There are one day fasts and longer as scripture indicates. God knows your heart; if you skip a meal then He will fill you with enough sustenance in the Spirit to persevere in prayer and meditation on the Word. Water obviously affects sugar levels so I would think it would be inadvisable to be without for any great time period.
I'm not sure who is in fellowship that you attend and what their policy is; normally it is pretty rare seeing fasting today; although some may push it who of course we need to be wary of if there is some forced control issue here. If urgent prayer is needed and you can't do what others are then you certainly shouldn't be excluded. It appears normally fasting is something an individual does; although it certainly could be suggested at least in the above situation.
At least in my current church; it seems getting anyone to do more than a "starvation diet" of prayer is a constant battle; I mentioned today that I am pressing as hard as I can without being obnoxious about it. My point being; that if people under ordinary circumstances aren't pressed and convicted to pray frequently and without "formally scheduled" periods where they are basically told who and what to pray about and limited to say half an hour (if you're lucky) even if the DID fast probably not much more would be accomplished--if they even attempted such a thing. Apparently my old church in Pittsburgh recently had an all night prayer (in shifts). Good for them. The other thing is; of course if people don't want to live for the Lord and their hearts aren't right God can't be expected to respond to their prayers.
Sorry to "rant" just thought some of this could be relevant. I ask for wisdom 4U.
Dont quite understand fasting what do you do ? Go all day without eating or give up someing you like for a day or just a meal explain --Please if it mean go with out food all day and cant do that Im diabetic , so what do I do
All these statements are true, as a nation we are moving away from God. Few I fear realize our creation is all about God and for Him, for His purpose. How long will He be patient with us? We are his children and He loves but if we turn from Him He will punish us.
We have much to rejoice in the LORD. For the LORD has given us a look at what is before our own country at this time. This being October 10, 2022. We have gone our own way and expect GOD'S blessings. We have allowed "strange" children in our midst because of our tolerance and desire to "live together." The framers of our country would say to us - we need to get back to our foundational roots that gave us our nation in GOD in the first place.
The framers and especially the Word of GOD told us that "the people perish because of lack of knowledge." Hosea 4:6; Proverbs 29:18
Our children have been out of school too long; and if they are in school, they are being taught ungodly things. We must seek the LORD diligently and faithfully. As Hosea writes and admonishes us to seek the LORD quickly while HE may yet be found.
Let us pray for the leadership of our nation for they have changed our boundaries, not the physical landmarks but the spiritual lines given by our GOD and Savior. Changing the boundaries between right and wrong; between true and false religion. Too many of the up coming generation are strangers to the LORD'S truth and HIS ways.
Let us call on the LORD as HIS word tells too. 2 Chronicles 7:14, 15; 1 Timothy 2:1-5; Colossians 3: 1-10
GOD to shine HIS face on our Nation and give us grace and HIS wisdom. Vote on November, 2022
In Revelation 19:17-21 you see the parallel verse " Where the eagles gather as mentioned in
Matthew 24:28.
No mention of the removal of saints. If the saints were raptured and everyone else cast into hell and this is the last day on earth as you presented Who's going to populate the Millennium?
In Revelation 20 you see the Millennium reign of Christ and the great white throne judgment.
Let's use Daniel 12:13 you provided to see who the elect is in these scriptures.
Daniel 12:1-2 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for THE CHILDREN OF THY PEOPLE: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time THY PEOPLE shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Who's Daniels people? Israel.
Who's gathered from the four corners of the earth? Israel.
Isaiah 11:9-12.
Ezekiel 34:11-14.
Daniel is not talking about the Church.
The tribulation will drive Israel to their Messiah.
Hosea 5:15. I will go and return to my place, TILL THEY ACKNOWLEDGE THEIR OFFENCE, AND SEEK MY FACE: IN THEIR AFFLICTION THEY WILL SEEK ME EARLY.
Matthew 23:37-39 (KJV) O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
For I say unto you, YE SHALL NOT SEE ME HENCEFORTH, TILL YE SHALL SAY, BLESSED IS HE THAT COMETH IN THE NAME OF THE LORD.
I do not know what you are going through, you did not give a lot of detail and that's ok, but may I just speak the plain truth. If you are truly being called back in the fold, the road back may not be short or easy. We cannot just say a prayer or two and everything will be hunky-dory again. Please do not compare what you are dealing with to Job, our words can come to be if you know what I mean.
We must all work out our path of salvation, Ezekiel 18:20Romans 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Read Luke 15:11-32 Are you there yet? The word of God is our only defense against the principalities and powers of evil and believe me, they do not let go easily and they can be quite vicious. Spend every spare minute in His word and prayer, truly repenting, not holding on to anything, if it is any kind of obstacle let it go, even if you lose it all. Revelation 2:5
We must truly admit and understand what we have done. Jeremiah 2:19 We must know it may take time and not at all be easy. Hosea 5:15 When we truly have repented without any doubt, He will return Jeremiah 3:22 2 Hosea 14:4
Jonah was a great man of God, but he backslid from the will of God and went in his direction, not Gods. Look what God sent him to get his attention and change his direction. You can do it but do not get discouraged if things get worse and the temptations, not from God, but from the adversaries trying to hold you back. Turn adversity into strength, for what we lose in this life is nothing to what we will lose in the life to come. Mark 35:8 that's not just our physical life, it is the life we choose to live.
My prayer is for you to have the strength you will need.
Hosea 5:14-15. For I will be unto Ephraim as a lion, and as a young lion to the house of Judah: I, even I, will tear and go away; I will take away, and none shall rescue him.
Look below at verse 15, The same "I" in verse 14 is the same "I" in verse 15. and He in verse 15 is a prophesy of Christ after his ministry and his 2nd coming.
Verse 15: I WILL GO AND RETURN TO MY PLACE, TILL THEY ACKNOWLEDGE THEIR OFFENCE, AND SEEK MY FACE: IN THEIR AFFLICTION THEY WILL SEEK ME EARLY.
Here's another.
Isaiah 40:3-5 . The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, MAKE STRAIGHT IN THE DESERT A HIGHWAY FOR "OUR GOD".
Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain:
And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
Malachi 2:17. YE HAVE WEARIED THE LORD with your words. Yet ye say, Wherein have we wearied him? When ye say, Every one that doeth evil is good in the sight of the LORD, and he delighteth in them; or,
( WHERE IS THE GOD OF JUDGMENT?)
Next verse-
Malachi 3:1. BEHOLD, ("I") WILL SEND "MY" MESSENGER, AND HE SHALL PREPARE THE WAY BEFORE ME: ( AND THE LORD, WHOM YE SEEK,) shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts. ( This is easily established that this is God speaking, )
God came as mentioned, "JESUS" and John the baptist prepared the way for him.
( EMMANUEL.) -God with us.
Matthew 1:23.
See here In Matthew 11:10. For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
S Spencer Hosea 515 Christ deity Hm - In Reply on John 1 - 3 years ago
Hosea 5:4-7, Notice these 3 verses Hosea is speaking God the father, "They will not frame their doings to turn unto their God: for the spirit of whoredoms is in the midst of them, and they have not known the LORD.
And the pride of Israel doth testify to his face: therefore shall Israel and Ephraim fall in their iniquity; Judah also shall fall with them.
They shall go with their flocks and with their herds to seek the LORD; but they shall not find him; he hath withdrawn himself from them.
They have dealt treacherously against the LORD: for they have begotten strange children: now shall a month devour them with their portions.
Hosea 5:15,
Now as we get down to vs 15 he prophesied something strange...
Verse 15: I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early.
When did the Lord leave his place? and what specific offense is he speaking of? and what affliction is he speaking of? let's look at Mathews 23:39. " Matthew 23:39 (KJV) For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord." Now of course they seen him again but he is saying here BEHOLD HIM AS A NATION. "NATIONALLY" Could their offence be rejection of the Messiah? Wd they be forced to call on him during the tribulation? "THE AFFLICTION " And when the Lord as mentioned in Hosea 5:15 and Jesus in Mathew 23:39. Does that nit them together as God? I will go and return to my place till" WHOS RETURNIN
Please remember that the sons of God have come for the pulling down of this world's 'Strongholds', religion being the strongest of them all ( 2 Cor. 10:4; Luke 11:21-23).
When it comes to the Medical Profession, please know that the believers live by faith, as the true and living God of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob is their guide in all things. Remember how God took care of a host of 2m people for forty years. He fed them and provided them with water and other essentials. Even their shoes and garments didn't wear out. Also remember that out of the original group that crossed the Red Sea only Joshua & Caleb crossed the Jordan River. All the rest died in the wilderness, while only the new generation crossed the Jordan.
Rather than speaking from personal experience, we believe that the most effective way to be taught and to come to the understanding of 'The Chastening of the Lord' is by the Word of God itself
Never in the world's history has this taken place. Hosea 5 is a prophecy that has never been fulfilled and will take place in the last days. The countries will be doing the things that where being done in the time of Noah. This time want be a flood of water. We know that Israel can only be partially taken Zechariah 14 , but who must be removed for this to happen.
the whoredoms refers to Israels turning to the false gods of foreign nations and when they married into those nations they began to worship false gods this is not a black and white racial issue God created and loves all men equally we should all try and do the same
This comment is Wrt comment posted on 10 05 2014 8:23am. I firmly strongly disagree with that anti-Semitic, prejudice opinion. The Bible refers to a time in eternity when every nation, tribe tongue will stand before Him. The 2nd Adam made a way for others who are not the natural descendants of Jacob, to enter into the Family of God. The 'White ' race is not the Israelite race. God has called ALL nations to Himself. When they commit whoredoms, they are in any type of idolatrous sin- whether in the spirit or in the natural. When a person is one with God, the fruit manifests in righteousness, many souls won over to the Lord. When the wrong union takes place between a person his her god-or multitudes of false gods, the fruit is strange. The children are strange- without love, mercy, kindness, but are the workers of iniquity. Like begets like in most cases. Similarly if a man of God fornicates with a witch they just might end up with a strange child-care a child that grows up to be a devil worshipper. Or if God is invited into the child 's life, a miraculous salvation would take place. The moral of the story is that one should
Hosea speaks about the punishment of isreal which they were going to face since they had sinned against their Deity who had brought them up from the Egyptians to Cannan.......He also preached about repentance.........he told them that they were supposed to repent so that God will take them back
The Lord said he would be as lion to Ephraim, and a young lion to Judah. God said I will return to my place till they acknowledge their wickedness, and in their affliction they shall seek me. Jesus wept over Israel, and said how ofter would I have protected you as a hen protects her chickens under her wings behold your house is left unto you desolate. Paul said my heart's desire is for Israel to be saved. Thank God this will happen in the tribulation, and we must continue to pray for the peace of Israel. God is calling out Jew, and Gentile in the Church age. When the Church age is over, God will return his attention to Israel. Jesus will be coming back as the Lion of the tribe of Judah to take the title deed of this world back from Satan.
I know when Jesus first came their eyes and ears were closed because the fullness of time had come, because they had gone so far away from God, judgment had been given on that generation. We see the similarity to that in Hosea, the temple was destroyed. I think we are on the same page with Matthew 23:39 as this happens with the fullness of the Gentiles.
When Jesus returns and sets up the kingdom on earth, they will call on Him as their Messiah and king. But my understanding is Hosea 5:15 God removed his glory from the sanctuary and the city for their unwillingness to repent and return to God the punishment was the destruction of the first temple and their captivity.
Thanks, brother,
God bless,
RLW
I may be a little slow but if you do not mind could you expand your meaning on "behold him as a nation" and how that relates to Matthew 23:39 or Hosea 5:15?
God bless,
RLW
That is fascinating.
In Matthew 23:39 Jesus states, "For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, (Meaning behold him as a nation)
till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
I wonder how do they view such verses as Matthew 23:39 and Hosea 5:15
"I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early.
God bless.
Part 1
We are 100% in agreement that the blood of Christ is by which we are saved throughout eternity.
Israel, "through the house of Israel" will be saved by the same way they were saved on the OT.
(But not all.) So, in Romans 11:26 where it says And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, I believe it's those of the house of Israel who will except Christ finished work on the cross. Their blindness will be removed when they call on Christ in the tribulation. You see the church is never called the house of Israel.
In the OT, before the Church was formed, those who were saved, by faith they looked ahead with those ordinances pointing them to one who would come as their redeemer "Christ"
We look back at the Cross in faith for our redemption, In the Millennium kingdom those who are saved will do the same.
Those who are saved will look back at the finish work of Christ on the cross. Everything else is a memorial. sacrifices etc.
During the tribulation period Israel will be driven to call on their Messiah as prophesied in Hosea 5:15. Also in Matthew 23:39.
obviously, they seen him again, He's saying you won't behold him again as a Nation. (They will remain blinded) as mentioned in Luke 19:42.
You also see this mentioned clearly in Zechariah 13:6-9.
Peter makes mention of a future salvation for the Nation/house of Israel in Acts 15:9-11 when studying it carefully.
And James follows it up in verses 14-17.
Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
See part 2.
Part 1.
Sorry for such a delay. In Daniel 9:25 "Messiah the Prince"
What I was saying is it actually SAYS Messiah the king.
I didn't mean to say it's translated king from prince.
On Daniel 9:24-25. I agree with you when you say "These 6 things were determined upon Daniel's people, the lost sheep of Israel, and the holy city, Jerusalem. That's true!
Now here is where we disagree on Daniel 9:24-25. Seventy weeks are determined "UPON THY PEOPLE and upon thy holy city, DANIELS PEOPLE!
These six things wasn't accomplished for Daniels people at the cross because"Daniels people" rejected Jesus as savior.
Daniels people transgression and sin is specific.
They denied their king and savior who came at the appointed time!
This is what Hosea 5:15 is talking about.
"I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early.
This is also what Jesus is saying in Matthew 23:39. "For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord".
Of course they saw him again.
What Jesus is saying here is they won't behold him as a nation again until they say blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord!
That affliction will come in the 70th week.
When they turn to him then will those 6 things for "Daniels people" be accomplished.
Here is what I have as the middle of the 70th week. Revelation 13:4-5 "And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months".
In Matthew 24:3 When Jesus pointed his Desciples to Daniel 9 he was answering 2 of the 3 questions they asked him. "and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and the end of the world.
See pt 2.
Part 2.
Obviously the "EVERLASTING" conditons described in scripture concerning the Abrahamic and Davidic Covenants.
Scriptures such as Isaiah 51:11 and many others don't exist of yet.
They are certainly back in the land but the wailing wall in Jerusalem reminds me of Matthew 27:25.
Also Matthew 23:38-39 seems to parallel with Hosea 5:15.
Does Israel disobedience void the UNCONDITIONAL COVENANT AND PROMISES?
According to Psalms 89:27-36. NO!
"My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.
His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.
If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;
If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;
Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.
Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, NOR SUFFER MY FAITHFULNESS TO FAIL.
( This is a marvelous saying! It's God's faithfulness that is on display!!)
MY COVENANT WILL I NOT BREAK, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.
Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David.
His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me."
Daniel has much to say about this in Daniel 9:24
"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy."
See Examining the covenants
Part 2.
God bless.
I was responding to an earlier reply of yours when you said there's no rapture verse in the Bible.
I believe I gave you verse
1 Thessalonians 4:17 "Then we which are alive and remain shall be CAUGHT UP together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord"
I didn't say it was a dispensational view.
It's a rapture verse used by Post and Pre-trib groups.
The debate issue is when it happens not if!
And that don't define dispensational as you say it do.
We're all saved by one way. Christ!
No matter the time period.
However We're not gathered with Israel as a Nation.
Paul makes that clear in Romans.
Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness "IN PART" is happened to Israel, UNTIL the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. ( That means temporarily Gigi )
Now here's a difficult verse that troubles most people.
Romans 11:26-27. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Paul is talking about his Kinsman of the flesh!
The Nation, when he take away their blindness.
Has the "Nation" turned to Christ? No.
Will they turn to Christ? Yes.
When? During the tribulation. "70 of Daniel"
THE TRIBULATION CENTERS AROUND ISRAEL.
I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge THEIR OFFENCE, and seek my face: IN THEIR AFFLICTION they will seek me early. Hosea 5:15.
THEIR OFFENCE IS REJECTING CHRIST!
He'll come when they call on him.
Matthew 23:39. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
This whole concept parallels
Psalms 118:18-29.
God bless.
Part 3.
Matthew 24:32-34.
Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Israel represents the fig tree in scripture.
Hosea 9:10.
Jeremiah 24:2-3.
Joel 1:7.
This generation is a particular people of this time. (Israel)
Generations is used in that way in scripture as a particular people or Genealogy as seen in Genesis 5:1 and other places.
SO YOU KNOW IT IS NEAR WHEN YOU SEE ISRAEL START TO BLOSOM.
THAT DIDNT HAPPEN IN 70 AD.
Back to Daniel 9:24.
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Reconciliation. Jesus done that on the cross, but no one is reconciled until they believe. As a Nation Israel still rejects Christ and will continue until the tribulation. Hosea 5:15, Matthew 23:39.
To finish the transgression. That refers to Israel. Zachariah 12:10 "The last days.
to bring in everlasting righteousness.
To anoint the most Holy. I also believe that's the Holy of holiness. but I believe that is in the Millennium temple that Ezekiel is talking about in the 41st through the 46 chapter.
I will have to leave off here for now Ronald.
God bless.
Part 2.
As I presented my view of a "to the day" accurate 69th weeks, I believe if one holds the view that there is no interval, and these weeks are consecutive. SEVERAL YEARS PAST BEFORE TITUS DESTROYED THE TEMPLE. 70weeks dosent add up.
This brings us to Matthews 23:37-39
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Notice vs 39. "Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord".
Now we know they saw him again so I believe this means to Behold him as a nation. Remember Luke 19:42.
Also see Hosea 5:15. I will go and return to my place, TILL THEY ACKNOWLEDGE THEIR OFFENCE, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early.
ISRAEL AS A NATION SIN IS THEIR REJECTION.
Paul hammers on this rejection, Blindness, and restoration in Romans 9,10,and 11.
Paul summarizes this very well in Romans 11:25-28.
PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO THIS, I BELIEVE IT STRENTHENS MY ARGUMENT DANIEL 9:24 HASNT HAPPENED YET.
"For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, AND SHALL TURN AWAY UNGODLYNESS FROM JACOB:
For this is my covenant unto them, WHEN I SHALL TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS.
As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching THE ELECTION, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
This hasn't happened yet.
See Part 3.
I think you, yourself have to determine how & if you fast. By your faith.
Isaiah 58, Galatians 2:6, Hebrews 11:6, James 1:5-7,
The problem, you've stated you have is considered 'high blood sugar' usually less sugar intake is better for your body. Less food would be less sugar, but that means don't take the same insulin amounts. You should talk about it with the people you're trusting that diagnosed you & prescribed medicine to you, if you're taking insulin.
I guess the first act of faith in fasting for you could be, eating healthy. Cut out unnecessary sugars.
Several fellowships do a 15 day no desserts. Some turn off TV, radio etc to take time to listen to GOD. Usually all fasts reading the Bible & praying more. Turning from sin, like things that displease GOD. Like abusing someone's own body: 1Corinthians 6:9-10,11, Romans 14:22,23, Philippians 3:9,
Hebrews 11,
Interestingly the Bible mentions taking off Kingly garments & putting on sackcloth with fasting: 1Kings 21:27, Daniel 9:3, Isaiah 37:1, Jonah 3:5-10,
(this is the chapter Daniel 9, that the fellowship, takes the 'no dessert' fast from.)
Matthew 6, praying & asking Luke 11:1-13,
Then extreme fasts, for extreme situations: Books of Esther, Matthew 17:14-21,
Hopefully these are helpful
I think I did a commentary a few weeks ago on that subject. At any rate there are various lengths of time and types of fasts (such as Daniel eating only vegetables for a period of time; probably long term to avoid the Babylonian items probably offered to idols). There are one day fasts and longer as scripture indicates. God knows your heart; if you skip a meal then He will fill you with enough sustenance in the Spirit to persevere in prayer and meditation on the Word. Water obviously affects sugar levels so I would think it would be inadvisable to be without for any great time period.
I'm not sure who is in fellowship that you attend and what their policy is; normally it is pretty rare seeing fasting today; although some may push it who of course we need to be wary of if there is some forced control issue here. If urgent prayer is needed and you can't do what others are then you certainly shouldn't be excluded. It appears normally fasting is something an individual does; although it certainly could be suggested at least in the above situation.
At least in my current church; it seems getting anyone to do more than a "starvation diet" of prayer is a constant battle; I mentioned today that I am pressing as hard as I can without being obnoxious about it. My point being; that if people under ordinary circumstances aren't pressed and convicted to pray frequently and without "formally scheduled" periods where they are basically told who and what to pray about and limited to say half an hour (if you're lucky) even if the DID fast probably not much more would be accomplished--if they even attempted such a thing. Apparently my old church in Pittsburgh recently had an all night prayer (in shifts). Good for them. The other thing is; of course if people don't want to live for the Lord and their hearts aren't right God can't be expected to respond to their prayers.
Sorry to "rant" just thought some of this could be relevant. I ask for wisdom 4U.
The framers and especially the Word of GOD told us that "the people perish because of lack of knowledge." Hosea 4:6; Proverbs 29:18
Our children have been out of school too long; and if they are in school, they are being taught ungodly things. We must seek the LORD diligently and faithfully. As Hosea writes and admonishes us to seek the LORD quickly while HE may yet be found.
Let us pray for the leadership of our nation for they have changed our boundaries, not the physical landmarks but the spiritual lines given by our GOD and Savior. Changing the boundaries between right and wrong; between true and false religion. Too many of the up coming generation are strangers to the LORD'S truth and HIS ways.
Let us call on the LORD as HIS word tells too. 2 Chronicles 7:14, 15; 1 Timothy 2:1-5; Colossians 3: 1-10
GOD to shine HIS face on our Nation and give us grace and HIS wisdom. Vote on November, 2022
Part 4.
In Revelation 19:17-21 you see the parallel verse " Where the eagles gather as mentioned in
Matthew 24:28.
No mention of the removal of saints. If the saints were raptured and everyone else cast into hell and this is the last day on earth as you presented Who's going to populate the Millennium?
In Revelation 20 you see the Millennium reign of Christ and the great white throne judgment.
Let's use Daniel 12:13 you provided to see who the elect is in these scriptures.
Daniel 12:1-2 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for THE CHILDREN OF THY PEOPLE: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time THY PEOPLE shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Who's Daniels people? Israel.
Who's gathered from the four corners of the earth? Israel.
Isaiah 11:9-12.
Ezekiel 34:11-14.
Daniel is not talking about the Church.
The tribulation will drive Israel to their Messiah.
Hosea 5:15. I will go and return to my place, TILL THEY ACKNOWLEDGE THEIR OFFENCE, AND SEEK MY FACE: IN THEIR AFFLICTION THEY WILL SEEK ME EARLY.
Matthew 23:37-39 (KJV) O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
For I say unto you, YE SHALL NOT SEE ME HENCEFORTH, TILL YE SHALL SAY, BLESSED IS HE THAT COMETH IN THE NAME OF THE LORD.
This means when they behold him as a nation.
God bless.
I do not know what you are going through, you did not give a lot of detail and that's ok, but may I just speak the plain truth. If you are truly being called back in the fold, the road back may not be short or easy. We cannot just say a prayer or two and everything will be hunky-dory again. Please do not compare what you are dealing with to Job, our words can come to be if you know what I mean.
We must all work out our path of salvation, Ezekiel 18:20 Romans 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Read Luke 15:11-32 Are you there yet? The word of God is our only defense against the principalities and powers of evil and believe me, they do not let go easily and they can be quite vicious. Spend every spare minute in His word and prayer, truly repenting, not holding on to anything, if it is any kind of obstacle let it go, even if you lose it all. Revelation 2:5
We must truly admit and understand what we have done. Jeremiah 2:19 We must know it may take time and not at all be easy. Hosea 5:15 When we truly have repented without any doubt, He will return Jeremiah 3:22 2 Hosea 14:4
Jonah was a great man of God, but he backslid from the will of God and went in his direction, not Gods. Look what God sent him to get his attention and change his direction. You can do it but do not get discouraged if things get worse and the temptations, not from God, but from the adversaries trying to hold you back. Turn adversity into strength, for what we lose in this life is nothing to what we will lose in the life to come. Mark 35:8 that's not just our physical life, it is the life we choose to live.
My prayer is for you to have the strength you will need.
RLW
Here's a few that is over looked.
Hosea 5:14-15. For I will be unto Ephraim as a lion, and as a young lion to the house of Judah: I, even I, will tear and go away; I will take away, and none shall rescue him.
Look below at verse 15, The same "I" in verse 14 is the same "I" in verse 15. and He in verse 15 is a prophesy of Christ after his ministry and his 2nd coming.
Verse 15: I WILL GO AND RETURN TO MY PLACE, TILL THEY ACKNOWLEDGE THEIR OFFENCE, AND SEEK MY FACE: IN THEIR AFFLICTION THEY WILL SEEK ME EARLY.
Here's another.
Isaiah 40:3-5 . The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, MAKE STRAIGHT IN THE DESERT A HIGHWAY FOR "OUR GOD".
Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain:
And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
Malachi 2:17. YE HAVE WEARIED THE LORD with your words. Yet ye say, Wherein have we wearied him? When ye say, Every one that doeth evil is good in the sight of the LORD, and he delighteth in them; or,
( WHERE IS THE GOD OF JUDGMENT?)
Next verse-
Malachi 3:1. BEHOLD, ("I") WILL SEND "MY" MESSENGER, AND HE SHALL PREPARE THE WAY BEFORE ME: ( AND THE LORD, WHOM YE SEEK,) shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts. ( This is easily established that this is God speaking, )
God came as mentioned, "JESUS" and John the baptist prepared the way for him.
( EMMANUEL.) -God with us.
Matthew 1:23.
See here In Matthew 11:10. For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
God bless.
And the pride of Israel doth testify to his face: therefore shall Israel and Ephraim fall in their iniquity; Judah also shall fall with them.
They shall go with their flocks and with their herds to seek the LORD; but they shall not find him; he hath withdrawn himself from them.
They have dealt treacherously against the LORD: for they have begotten strange children: now shall a month devour them with their portions.
Hosea 5:15,
Now as we get down to vs 15 he prophesied something strange...
Verse 15: I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early.
When did the Lord leave his place? and what specific offense is he speaking of? and what affliction is he speaking of? let's look at Mathews 23:39. " Matthew 23:39 (KJV) For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord." Now of course they seen him again but he is saying here BEHOLD HIM AS A NATION. "NATIONALLY" Could their offence be rejection of the Messiah? Wd they be forced to call on him during the tribulation? "THE AFFLICTION " And when the Lord as mentioned in Hosea 5:15 and Jesus in Mathew 23:39. Does that nit them together as God? I will go and return to my place till" WHOS RETURNIN
Please remember that the sons of God have come for the pulling down of this world's 'Strongholds', religion being the strongest of them all ( 2 Cor. 10:4; Luke 11:21-23).
When it comes to the Medical Profession, please know that the believers live by faith, as the true and living God of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob is their guide in all things. Remember how God took care of a host of 2m people for forty years. He fed them and provided them with water and other essentials. Even their shoes and garments didn't wear out. Also remember that out of the original group that crossed the Red Sea only Joshua & Caleb crossed the Jordan River. All the rest died in the wilderness, while only the new generation crossed the Jordan.
Rather than speaking from personal experience, we believe that the most effective way to be taught and to come to the understanding of 'The Chastening of the Lord' is by the Word of God itself
CHASTENING
Deut. 8:5
Job 5:17-19; 6:1-10; 23:10; 33:19
Psalms 6:1-10; 17:3; 30:1-12; 38:1-21; 94:12-14; 102:1-28; 116:1-19; 119:7,67,71
Proverbs 3:11
Isaiah 26:16
1 Cor. 11:32
Hebrews 12:5,6
James 1:12
1 Peter 1:7
Rev. 3:15-21
AFFLICTIONS
Psalms 34:19; 132:1
Isaiah 48:10
Acts 7:10; 20:23
2 Cor. 6:4
Col. 1:24
1 Thess 3:3
Hebrews 12:5-12
Rev. 3:18
SICKNESS AND HEALING
Exodus 15:26
Psalm 6:2
Isaiah 30:26
Jer. 30:17
Eze. 34:16
Hosea 6:1
Mal. 4:2
Matthew 10:8
Mark 2:17
Luke 5:31
James 5:15
1 Peter 2:24
Rev. 22:2
RELYING ON DOCTORS AND MEDICINE
2 Chr. 16:12,13
Job 13:4
Psalms 34:19; 108:12
Isaiah 30:1-3
Jer. 17:5-7,14
Hosea 5:13
Mark 5:25-29
Luke 8:43
MADE PERFECT THROUGH SUFFERING
Job 5:18; 23:10
Psalms 50:5; 119:67,71
Isaiah 48:10
Jer. 31:18
Hosea 5:15; 6:1
Romans 8:17
2 Cor. 4:17
Hebrews 2:10; 5:7-9; 12:10,11
1 Peter 4:1,12; 5:1,9,10
Rev. 3:19
Seek, and ye shall find ( Matthew 7:7).
In His Service.
Andy & Dianne van den Berg - Nova Scotia, Canada
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