Why would the Holy Spirit change His mind and leave out parts of verses like Matthew 18:11 "For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost." is left out or in Luke 4:8 leaving out "And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve." or Ephesians 3:14 "For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ," NIV " For this reason I kneel before the Father, ESV "For this reason I bow my knees before the Father." What is your response to this?
The "walking in the park" example you gave was incorrect. These verses didn't just rearrange the words they left the words, edifying Christ, OUT. How do you think these versions glorify God when they are throwing His Son under the bus? I know that the KJB authors added books, chapters and verses but if that is the way it is written then that is the way God wanted it done. You have to believe, as I do, that either the Holy Ghost was in complete control of the writing of the KJB 1611 or you do not. To me it's that simple. I have a long list of scripture comparisons of the KJB to several popular modern versions and it's more then enough to think either God's Holy Spirit inspired the KJB only or He is a God who is dissatisfied with His original bible and wants it done over and over and over again. The NIV claimed that it only replaced old fashioned words with modern ones, but in the end it came up 64,000 words shorter then the KJB and had 3600 changes that affected doctrine like the examples I gave above.
Now people are so confused with so many versions out there they are desperate enough to ask some stranger on YouTube.
I know I'm what a lot of people call "KJB only" and in a sense I am but I don't believe people are condemn to hell if they use the modern versions. Their salvation does not hing on that. But I strongly believe they could be lead into believing false doctrine which could harm their walk with God, eventually leading to destruction. I went to a non-denominational church once and really enjoyed it until the pastor told me he didn't believe the KJB was written by God, his bible was the NIV. I stop going.
Here are just three examples of corrupt verses compared to the KJB: Matthew 18:11 KJB "For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost." In the NIV and ESV: The verse is eliminated. It isn't there. A verse that speaks in plain, easily understood English that shows that Jesus is the Messiah, was eliminated. Luke 4:8: " KJB "And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve." NIV: "Jesus answered, "It is written: Worship the Lord your God and serve him only." ESV: "And Jesus answered him,"It is written, You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only shall you serve." Ephesians 3:14 KJB: "For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ," NIV " For this reason I kneel before the Father, ESV "For this reason I bow my knees before the Father," (Again, diminishes the deity of Christ.)
I know it is between a christian and the Lord what bible versions they choose to use but I would think they would want the one God choose to give His children. I believe it is part of my respect for God"s truth to tell the good of the KJB and the harm of the modern versions. I emphatically believe the KJB is the Holy Ghost inspired Bible and meant for His children to trust and love. God Bless ;)
God made Jesus Lord, Acts 2:36, made is thee Greek word ginomai that means to come into being, to happen, to become. This was foreordained before the foundation of the world and this Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world, 1 Peter 1:19-20Revelation 13:8, foreordained the Greek word proginosko means to know beforehand to appoint or decree beforehand.
I see too many Scriptures that do not agree with the doctrine. I hope this makes sense. This is Scripture without man's knowledge or wisdom 1 Corinthians 1:22Jeremiah 10:10 10 Malachi 2:10Mark 12:32
Paul wrote these; Romans 3:30Romans 15:61 Corinthians 8:62 Corinthians 1:32 Corinthians 11:31Ephesians 1:3Ephesians 1:17Ephesians 3:14Ephesians 4:6Colossians 1:31 Timothy 2:5
Peter wrote this; 1 Peter 1:3
These are Jesus's words Himself; Matthew 27:46 Same in Mark 15:34John 14:28John 17:3John 20:17Revelation 3:12
What this says to me, there is only one true God who is the God and Father of Jesus,
These Scriptures are clear without our wisdom or knowledge do not agree with the doctrine of the Trinity. I do thank you and again I hope you do not consider me a Gnostic that would be sad, they are more of a philosophical like the immortal soul came from Greek philosophy, I am believer and follower of Jesus our Lord and savior.
Thanks Giannis for sharing in this. I can agree to Romans 8:29, " that he might be the firstborn among many brethren"; that clearly 'prototokos' here refers to Christ being our 'Forerunner' leading those who are saved by His Blood, into the new Birth He has provided for us; i.e. we follow Jesus, Who is the Firstborn among us.
Yet, with Colossians 1:15, "the firstborn of every creature" (or, creation), doesn't seem to imply that believers are the object; though you (or, your Church) feels it does: "that first born of all creation means that Jesus was the first child of God among all other born(again) children (us, God's children)". It's interesting that 'creation' is used here, which doesn't seem to easily bring Christ's Church into its meaning.
That was interesting about the usage of 'arche', that it could be applied to rulers, principalities, etc. I checked your reference Revelation 3:14, and though the application of 'arche' is defined as "that by which anything begins to be, the origin, active cause", your other references ( Colossians 1:16 & Ephesians 3:10) certainly apply to 'principalities/rulers'. And other references are given in support of this: Luke 12:11, Titus 3:1, Ephesians 1:21, Colossians 2:10, & others. So thank you for giving us more to consider in this matter.
May I intervene in your discussion saying something about the verses in Col 1:15-18
"15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by(in grk through) him(also see Ephesians 3:9), and for him:"
17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence"
1. "first born of every creature", the grk says "prototokos(first born) pases(of all) ktiseos(of creation)" .___"Prototokos" comes from "protos(first)" and the verb "tikto(give birth)"___ As Chris has said it doesn't say "protoktistos" which means "first to be created".
What does Paul mean with that? Which is that creation he is refering to. There are many interpretations of that.
a. The Orthodox church believes that Jesus as a God was born by His Father before the creation of the world (see the Nicene Creed). So as a son of a father who is God He is also God. Later during the Roman times He was also born by the Spirit and Mary as a man. So He is Son of God and Son of Man. This is what they believe.
b. Other beliefs. Firstly lets see the verse in Gal 6:14-15, " For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature." The grk actually says "creation" not "creature". New creation.
As you see in Col 1:18 Paul calls Jesus "first born from the dead" and he also says about Jesus "that in all things he might have the preeminence"
Taking all those into account a possible interpretation is (and this is the belief of many in my church) that first born of all creation means that Jesus was the first child of God among all other born(again) children (us, God's children)
We get mixed up all the time, because our old mind hasn't totally BEEN RENEWED to the mind of Christ.
The end of the world is one example.
The end of the world (age) (in the fullness of time) came when Christ was resurrected, he said: Behold, I make all things new.
Probably a more accurate translation would be the end of the AGE, or the fullness of time.
The 1000 year reign with Christ is NOW, running parallel, with this age, but we are not of this age, because in the fullness of time we became a new creation.
Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this age, be be ye TRANSFORMED by the RENEWING (all things have become new) of your mind.
He give us the parable of the seed, Christ, being the SEED.
The corn plant was the example.
If you plant a corn SEED in the ground, that SEED will DIE, and a green plant will emerge, that looks nothing like the SEED that was planted.
That plant grows and as it matures it slowly begins to naturally die, then the SEED is harvested by the farmer, and the good SEED is put in the barn.
It's put in the barn to be used as FOOD and for REPLANTING.
This is exactly what happen to the new new creation.
Christ the SEED, DIED, and was raised up, the green plant raised up with Christ (you and I), looks nothing like the SEED, but when we become mature (by the words of God), God sends the angels and they harvest us, our body that brought the SEED to maturity, is no longer needed, it goes back to the ground it came from, and the SEED goes back to the barn to be used as FOOD and REPLANTING SEED.
The OLD saints, now chariots of fire, and all that have been harvested in the last 2000 years, have become SEED for eating and replanting, they are workers in God's vineyard, all called at different hours of the day, they are causing you to mature and become a SEED.
I'm going to need to begin another thread, I've mistakenly clicked the notification to not have any more replies on our previous thread.
Jesse,
You ask for concrete proof, it's been given to you, you've chosen to reject Light
You may remain in unbelief, I would not advise it, Heb 11:61Cor 15:34
I've openly stated that I'm in the work of the washing of regeneration & renewing in the Holy Spirit, the work of sanctification of the Spirit unto obedience & sprinkling to the Blood/Life of Jesus.
The phases themselves indicates a cleansing from sin & a renewing into the image of Him who created him.
I've experience through the years, that this cleansing is not only from the committing of sin, but from the temptations to commit sin, though not submitted too. Their powers are weakened as I pick up the Cross & deny self in the inward parts, were thoughts are formed & birth, springs forth & we become conscious of them, Holy Spirit quickens me in my conscience to their stratagem within & without & makes me to learn Wisdom, Job 28:28 He preserves me 1Pet 1:5 by faith in the inward Voice, Grace appearance.
Surrendering to Christ is not a one time thing, it's a daily surrendering, as one exercises & abides in known Truth & as new light & knowledge is shined into our hearts in the face of Jesus Christ. Paul says at the end of his life, "I have kept the Faith"
A Christian life is one of constant growth, a perfection that can be added too. Even in our unperfected state there's a perfecting of our faith, how else will one ever arrive at 2Cor 7:1 "its from faith to faith, glory to glory".
I appreciate your concern, spiritually, but my faith whom Christ has Authored decrees a cleansing from all sin, Titus 2:14 & according to my faith, so shall it be unto me.
Ephesians 3:19,20 Matt 5:6 both indicating there's no place for darkness to remain & that God is able.
Time doesn't exist in God's realm, no beginning and no end.
One day is as a thousand years, that is symbolic, one day could also be as a million years.
It's just ONE DAY, TODAY.
Christ was resurrected and it became TODAY; the day of salvation, then, in our time frame, tomorrow, AGAIN, became TODAY the day of SALVATION, over and over for the last 2000 years, It's ALWAYS, TODAY the day of salvation, no beginning and no end.
Ephesians 3:21 ...... through out all AGES ......WORLD WITHOUT END ......
Ecclesiastes 1:9 The thing that hath been, is that which SHALL BE; and that which is done is that which SHALL BE DONE, there is NO NEW THING under the sun.
Hebrews 4:3 For we which have BELIEVED do enter in to REST (the Sabbath) .....the WORKS were FINISHED from the foundation of the world.
After reading two threads, which stated that "we could never love like God loves" I felt compel by Holy Spirit to correct this belief, that's unscriptural.
Paul states 2Cor 5:14
The love of God that flowed through him, he states in Gal 2:20 it was Christ that dwelling within him, living, moving & having His being within Paul, having His mind, heart & spirit. & where Christ dwells He brings His Father with Him John14:23 & God is love, he became an living expression of the Godhead, there's no way that in this abide abode that God love was not known, felt, displays in his life. Have you ever tried keeping your human love in? What about God ?
Jesus states in John15:10 "abide in His love"
We must believe that we can Ephesians 3:19 as we continue to grow in Grace in the knowledge of His will that
Hebrews 10:10 for faith Gal 5:6
1 John 1:14 perfect love experienced, is what John the beloved "tasted, seen & handled" 1John 4:12
1 Thessalonians 4:9 God taught them how to love as He loves
John 13:14 "as I have love you"
Folks,
To my understanding, Jesus prayer in John 17:21-23 reveals a union between the Spirit & Soul of our Creator & his creatures that unites us in such an wonderous way, that it took Divinity to imagine it, & the Son accomplish all His Father's heart desire. Matt 17:5
I quote Heb 4:2 from the NIV, ."1.Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. 2. For we also have had the good news proclaimed to us just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because they did not share the faith of those who obeyed. "
GiGi, also all the grk Bibles I have read so far agree on that matter that the message to the Hebrews was for their entrance to the promised land.
If we wish to know whether the Hebrews at that time did actually know about Christ's sacrifice, we can look at Ephesians 3:4-6, "4.Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ. 5. Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6. That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:"
Why does Paul call God's plan a mystery for the people in OT? Because simply they didn't know about it.
Also please read 1 Cor 2:7, "But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:"
GiGi, the Hebrews were expecting Christ (Messiah) as a king who would free them from their enemies and make them a nation which would rule over all other nations. They never expected Him as a man who would sacrifice Himself for the salvation of all nations, showing this way that they had never known God's mysterious plan. This is how I understand it and if I am wrong let God lead us.
Ephesians 3:1-15 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: How that by revelation he made known unto me the MYSTERY; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the MYSTERY of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be FELLOWHEIRS{of the New Heavens and New Earth}, and of the SAME BODY{the Israel of God}, and PARTAKERS OF HIS PROMISE in Christ by the gospel: Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; And to make all men see what is the FELLOWSHIP, OF THE MYSTERY which from the FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD HATH BEEN HID IN GOD, who created all things by Jesus Christ: To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the CHURCH {All True Believers throughout history} the manifold wisdom of God, According to the ETERNAL PURPOSE which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord: In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him. Wherefore I desire that ye faint not at my tribulations for you, which is your glory. For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Of whom the WHOLE FAMILY IN HEAVEN AND EARTH{All True Believers throughout history}is named,
Ephesians 3:21 Unto him be glory in the CHURCH{All True Believers throughout history}by Christ Jesus throughout ALL AGES, world without end{the New Heavens and New Earth}. Amen.
There is ONE SALVATION, ONE INHERITANCE for all True Believers throughout history, i.e. the ISRAEL OF GOD.
The word Mystery in the Greek is used a little different than the way we use the word.
Mystery in the Greek is "musterion" it means something divine that has been unknown up until now but is here now being divinely revealed. "Christ IN US" " The kingdom is at hand" And the kingdom is within you etc.
When God mentions Israel in the OT, he's talking about The Nation of Israel associated with the land.
Are the 12 tribes of Israel a idiom for the Church as well?
Who are those out of the Church is called the remnant of Israel?
When did God scatter them (The Church) among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries?
When God is talking about Israel, he us NEVER talking about the Church. In fact, he makes a great distinction between Israel and the Church. Those who are post cross "Jew and Gentiles make up the Church. However, that union was hid in the OT, Salvation to the Gentiles was mentioned but not as one body. Also, the Church never had geographic land! So how can you bring them back from all nations to the "land" of Israel. The land of Israel belongs to the 12 tribes of Israel. scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries:
Can Jeremiah 16:14-15 be applied to the Church?
"Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that it shall no more be said, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt.
But The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers."
Jeremiah 23:5 makes it clear along with many other verses.
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
For some reason I thought you were saying the mystery was that salvation went out to the Gentiles and the Desciples wasn't commissioned to preach to them until Paul and Stephen.
Paul was born out of due time so he would be late in the commission.
I believe Christ came to gather the lost sheep of Israel as mentioned in Matthew 15:24.
I agree there was a lot to be fulfilled that was Prophesied in the old testament.
Even his death was prophesied.
Salvation to the heathen.
Even his deity was prophesied " Isaiah 9:6." so I don't hold the view as Gigi as this being the mystery mentioned in Ephesians 3:5-6.
I believe the Mystery goes further than just extending salvation to the Gentiles but that they would be Joint heirs and how it would be accomplished.
By way of the cross and by rebirth by the Holyspirit.
Even when he rose from the dead they asked when was he going to restore the kingdom.
Even when he appeared to them after he rose from the dead some didn't believe.
Not until they received the Holyspirit were they able to comprehend his work.
Being born of God's spirit and baptized into one body was not revealed to them neither could they comprehend it.
I believe this is what Jesus is saying in John 16:12-14.
Also John 14:26 gives an example of how the Holyspirit would reveal revelation to them that the natural mind couldn't comprehend.
I'm hoping GOD pulled through for you with shelter over your head. I had a dream last night that I was asking a US retired Marine, to show me how to survive outside, without freezing. I was weeping, (because our situation is dire in real life & in the dream) he started to show me & started to set things up, upon a sheltered rock. I declared urgently "Wait! I have 3 children, this needs to protect them too!" Then he picked the materials up & the situation changed. Later in the dream, I was holding that retired Marine in my arms weightlessly up in water & helping baptize him. Leading him in the walk of a believer in the LORD & Word of GOD. The leader that was supposed to be doing the baptism seemed to be saying things & doing things wrongly. I quickly submerged the Marine under water declaring scripture. He stayed very close to me until a woman needed my help. Then I went with her, helping her fight the evil attacks against her. I'm not sure what the dreams I've been having mean fully, but I came across your prayer request again & I'm going out on a limb thinking it may be connected. I believe many of us that help here on this site, will pray about dire situations but don't have a response we feel is good enough encouragement to post. I have pondered scripture & prayer for you a couple of times. I've even tried to reach out to Samaritan's Purse Ministry on your behalf but my message failed to send in their platform.
We're in a difficult season to say the least. We will make it through these times! I believe it! We need each other in these times & in the days & years ahead. This is a place like: Philippians 2, Philippians 3:10-21, Romans 12:1-13, Ephesians 3:16-21, 2Timothy 2:1-3, James 5:10-11, 2Corinthians 11:25-27, Matthew 8:19-20,
I was reassured in my spirit, these difficult oppressive moments I'm facing are for others. It's a bigger better plan. 2Corinthians 4, Psalms 139, Psalms 37,
Dear Alex, Your doctrine of universal salvation regardless of belief or unbelief in Jesus and His work as well as your doctrine of God being born and replicated in us is what is in error.
Refer to John 3:18-19 and Luke 13:3 (Jesus said to repent or perish)
The Sciptures says that the Holy Spirit, Christ, and the Father all come to dwell within the believer, but all are not remade into baby gods in us, nor replicated in our human persons.
Read Ephesians 2:22 and Ephesians 3:17
John 14:17 and John 14:23
God does not change, as in the Spirit being born in us as child that grows. Only Jesus was Incarnated, not the Holy Spirit.
Read Psalm 102:27 and Hebrews 1:12 and Malachi 3:6
Alex, I know that we have addressed these doctrines before, but I still believe that YOU are the one in direct opposition to the revealed Word of God.
Jesse, Thank you for your response. Praise God! It is encouraging to hear from someone that has an understanding of what God is saying to them. May God thru the Holy Spirit continue to bless you with revelations unto His Word.
Amen to that! I have said this before and this is what I believe about prayer:
To me, prayer is the means by which I express my submission to Gods will in whatever it is I am praying for.
What that means is when I petition the Lord in prayer and ask for His will to be done, I have the promise according to 1 John 5:14-16 that He will answer my prayer.
It doesn't matter what it is, He will answer if I ask according to His will. Now, I know that doesn't mean I'm always going to get what I expect, and my situation might even get worse, but it will be according to His will, and I must accept it and thank Him either way!
Often times people pray for things, whether it be for better health, better finances, new job, or whatever they are praying for, but in their prayer, the do not pray for His will to be done, and then wonder why their prayer was not answered.
But if we pray anything according to His will, that prayer will be heard and answered. And we have to submit and accept whatever His will is.
One of my praying the Scriptures is praying by putting myself in Ephesians Chapter 3 verses 14-21. To me, praying the Scriptures is being in agreement with God and His will to answer. This is a powerful prayer.
Pondering on the verse of the day, I notice the pronouncement of Paul, the benediction. First he talks about the capability of the Lord. He says, now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think.
When I pause here, I don't believe anyone
can piece together words like that in any literature better than that. He is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think!
All that I'm complaining about, all that I'm asking the Lord about, He's doing much more. And He knows so much more.
And it's according to the power that is working in us. The word working is the word energy. According to the DUNAMIS, the power that is energizing in us.
And then the creed concerning the Lord in the next verse ( Ephesians 3:21). Unto him be glory in the church in Christ Jesus into all ages, world without end. Amen.
Just by these verses, Verses 17 through 21, you get that sense and understanding that Paul knows who Jesus is!
On the Matthew 24:31-46 I think I was responding to Gigi.
Her quote;
By GiGi
The most consistent view in the church over the centuries was that the rapture happens on the Last Day, as Jesus said in Luke 21:27; Matthew 24:29-31. Even Daniel was told that he would arise on the Last Day in Daniel 12:13. This is why I believe that Jesus comes back only once again and will gather believers to Himself on the Last Day.
End quote.
My point was that Matthew 24 was not about the rapture.
Those taken away are gathered for judgment.
She's rapturing the wrong group!
Some say that the tribulation is a time of testing for God's people. Who and what is being tested? God's grip?
We must consider these verses. John 10:28-29.
I John 4:4.
Matthew 28:20.
John 14:18-20.
Ephesians 3:30.
Jude 1:24-25.
Philippians 1:6. Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it UNTIL THE DAY OF JESUS CHRIST:
So it's obvious God is not testing a spirit filled vessel.
TRIBULATION.
This is mentioned in Daniel 12 where a specific time period is mentioned and Jesus confirms it in Matthew 24:15-21. This tribulation is to come upon the whole world. This is not the persecution ( By the world ) promised to the Church in Matthew 5:10 and other places.
There's a huge difference between persecution by the world and tribulation ( UPON ) the world.
Millennium.
Where does Christ thousand years reign here on earth fit in their theology?
My reason for asking is they are split in this view.
If you say the rapture comes after the tribulation and you use Matthew 24 to authenticate that, When is the thousand years reign of Christ here on earth?
Why would you rapture people out of the Millennium?
Some hold the view the Millennium has already begun and the Church will usher in the Millennium by preaching the Gospel.
John 16:12-14 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, HE WILL GUIDE YOU INTO ALL TRUTH: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: AND HE WILL SHEW YOU THINGS TO COME.
He shall glorify me: FOR HE SHALL RECEIVE OF MINE, AND SHALL SHEW IT UNTO YOU.
When Christ first came he came for the lost sheep of Israel, When they were commissioned by Jesus and "by revelation of the Spirit" they were to take the message to the world using the old testament uncovering the mystery that was later to be revealed.
Paul elaborates on this in Colossians 1:25-26 "Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
Also;
Ephesians 3:9-11 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
In acts when they received the Holyspirit they expounded from the old testament, Which was the promise to Abraham, Blessing to the Gentiles and the mystery of the Church.
These are the same scripture they had all along!
Truth is revealed to us in that same manner. By the Holyspirit.
Apart from the Holyspirit we can read the scripture all day everyday and never get to the debt of the meaning of scripture.
Also;
Christ "in us" gives us a new heart also causes us to walk as he did.
What ever is not done in the spirit is dead works.
2 Timothy 2:15 is a powerful verse. If we do not learn how to rightly divide the word of truth, we will be lost understanding the chain of events from the time God brought the Hebrews from the Land of Egypt until The Christ Lord Jesus died on the cross up to our time today which is approximately 2,000 years. Honestly, we do not have time. As you all noticed the rapid days go by quickly as God says 2 Peter 3:8 and you see Psalms 2:1-12
I do not mind repeating to all that the Bible is a complete book Revelation 19:13 for us today to prepare ourselves and others. I pray all to be saved. We cannot have the people caught unaware of Matthew 24:37. To rightly divide is to know for us today what we need to do. So I will say that the 11 apostles messages are important for the physical Jews Matthew 10:5-7 at the end time; and there are verses in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John that pertains to a spiritual Christians of today.
God had chosen Paul to be His vessel so we can read and believe not in vain. Study the Book of Romans to Philemon because he was the Last and believe it or not the 12th Apostle Galatians 1:1, Acts 9:15, Acts 13:47, Acts 22:21, Roman's 11:13, Ephesians 3:8, 1 Timothy 2:7, Galatians 1:16. After Jesus died He says Hebrews 9:14-17. Then you are Ephesians 1:12-14, 2 Timothy 2:19 and 2 Corinthians 1:22. Therefore, 1 Corinthians 9:2 just like Romans 15:28. Ephesians 4:30 and sing Psalms 49:8, 111:9, 130:7. In conclusion my fellow-believers, Paul is sealed 1 Corinthians 9:2 by God to be our apostle today. Weneedtoputtheworkof Paul not in vain Galatians 6:11. Paul tells us Romans 2:16, Romans 16:25, 2 Timothy 2:8. And the gospel is 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. Then we are sealed Ephesians 1:13. Perhaps you are not understanding me because Revelation 18:4, Proverbs 20:1, Roman's 7:11, 1 Corinthians 6:9, 1 Corinthians 15:33, Galatians 6:7, 1 Timothy 2:14, 2 Timothy 3:13, Titus 3:3, and lastly Revelation 18:23. Psalm 37:1-40 then we meditate Psalms 27:1-3. Shalom/Agape.
Hello again One Eighty. Looking at our comments both now & previous, I think the problem I have is understanding the phrase you use, "I believe Jesus is an EXTENSION (creation) of God Who is Spirit."
I don't use the word 'creation' to refer to Christ's appearance, as that denotes that God created Jesus, as One Who had no previous existence (e.g. Adam & Eve were created, the angels were created, animals, etc. as well). Whereas Jesus was never created as He is the Word incarnate (made flesh); i.e. the Word was always in God's Being & God took His Word and embodied His Word with humanity. The Word, though in human form, never ceased to be vitally connected to God, i.e. the Word was always Divine (holding the Divine Nature), but for the sake of taking upon Himself flesh, for suffering & dying, Jesus made Himself of no reputation ( Philippians 2:6-8): Greek for that is 'ekenosen', emptied Himself of His full Divinity - which He had to of course, to become man with human limitations, aging & death.
You've also said that "Jesus is an EXTENSION of God" & I think I can understand your meaning with this, but I wouldn't use 'creation' for Jesus, because how can a created One also be the Creator & Sustainer of all things ( Ephesians 3:9; Colossians 1:13-17)? So, I'm unsure whether we're saying the same things & using specific words to describe Jesus' manifestation, or whether we need to discuss further what I've shared about the eternal Nature of Christ Jesus. Blessings.
You are welcome. Please allow me to make myself be clear. Please read the entire chapter of John 1. John1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. When you see capital letter "W" Word in the Bible it means Jesus Christ. John 1:14. The lower case "w" word means the Bible. You cannot come to God the Father but by Jesus Christ John 14:6-7; For through him (Jesus Christ) we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Ephesians 2:18; it is a mystery Colossians 2:2-3; God gave to Jesus everything we need to know Revelation 1:1. In conclusion, There is one God the Father, one God the Son the Lord Jesus Christ, and one God The Holy Spirit. Three persons if you will, manifested from ONE GOD. Thank you so much for your question, I know how hard it is to many people understanding this concept, for I now have to be careful explaining it to you as well. Very happy for the opportunity. Glory to God.
More verses to prove Jesus is God. I will pray that you will be guided by the Holy Spirit in your journey to God. Agape.
Why would the Holy Spirit change His mind and leave out parts of verses like Matthew 18:11 "For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost." is left out or in Luke 4:8 leaving out "And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve." or Ephesians 3:14 "For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ," NIV " For this reason I kneel before the Father, ESV "For this reason I bow my knees before the Father." What is your response to this?
The "walking in the park" example you gave was incorrect. These verses didn't just rearrange the words they left the words, edifying Christ, OUT. How do you think these versions glorify God when they are throwing His Son under the bus? I know that the KJB authors added books, chapters and verses but if that is the way it is written then that is the way God wanted it done. You have to believe, as I do, that either the Holy Ghost was in complete control of the writing of the KJB 1611 or you do not. To me it's that simple. I have a long list of scripture comparisons of the KJB to several popular modern versions and it's more then enough to think either God's Holy Spirit inspired the KJB only or He is a God who is dissatisfied with His original bible and wants it done over and over and over again. The NIV claimed that it only replaced old fashioned words with modern ones, but in the end it came up 64,000 words shorter then the KJB and had 3600 changes that affected doctrine like the examples I gave above.
Now people are so confused with so many versions out there they are desperate enough to ask some stranger on YouTube.
I know I'm what a lot of people call "KJB only" and in a sense I am but I don't believe people are condemn to hell if they use the modern versions. Their salvation does not hing on that. But I strongly believe they could be lead into believing false doctrine which could harm their walk with God, eventually leading to destruction. I went to a non-denominational church once and really enjoyed it until the pastor told me he didn't believe the KJB was written by God, his bible was the NIV. I stop going.
Here are just three examples of corrupt verses compared to the KJB: Matthew 18:11 KJB "For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost." In the NIV and ESV: The verse is eliminated. It isn't there. A verse that speaks in plain, easily understood English that shows that Jesus is the Messiah, was eliminated. Luke 4:8: " KJB "And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve." NIV: "Jesus answered, "It is written: Worship the Lord your God and serve him only." ESV: "And Jesus answered him,"It is written, You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only shall you serve." Ephesians 3:14 KJB: "For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ," NIV " For this reason I kneel before the Father, ESV "For this reason I bow my knees before the Father," (Again, diminishes the deity of Christ.)
I know it is between a christian and the Lord what bible versions they choose to use but I would think they would want the one God choose to give His children. I believe it is part of my respect for God"s truth to tell the good of the KJB and the harm of the modern versions. I emphatically believe the KJB is the Holy Ghost inspired Bible and meant for His children to trust and love. God Bless ;)
Part 2
God made Jesus Lord, Acts 2:36, made is thee Greek word ginomai that means to come into being, to happen, to become. This was foreordained before the foundation of the world and this Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world, 1 Peter 1:19-20 Revelation 13:8, foreordained the Greek word proginosko means to know beforehand to appoint or decree beforehand.
I see too many Scriptures that do not agree with the doctrine. I hope this makes sense. This is Scripture without man's knowledge or wisdom 1 Corinthians 1:22 Jeremiah 10:10 10 Malachi 2:10 Mark 12:32
Paul wrote these; Romans 3:30 Romans 15:6 1 Corinthians 8:6 2 Corinthians 1:3 2 Corinthians 11:31 Ephesians 1:3 Ephesians 1:17 Ephesians 3:14 Ephesians 4:6 Colossians 1:3 1 Timothy 2:5
Peter wrote this; 1 Peter 1:3
These are Jesus's words Himself; Matthew 27:46 Same in Mark 15:34 John 14:28 John 17:3 John 20:17 Revelation 3:12
What this says to me, there is only one true God who is the God and Father of Jesus,
These Scriptures are clear without our wisdom or knowledge do not agree with the doctrine of the Trinity. I do thank you and again I hope you do not consider me a Gnostic that would be sad, they are more of a philosophical like the immortal soul came from Greek philosophy, I am believer and follower of Jesus our Lord and savior.
God bless,
RLW
Yet, with Colossians 1:15, "the firstborn of every creature" (or, creation), doesn't seem to imply that believers are the object; though you (or, your Church) feels it does: "that first born of all creation means that Jesus was the first child of God among all other born(again) children (us, God's children)". It's interesting that 'creation' is used here, which doesn't seem to easily bring Christ's Church into its meaning.
That was interesting about the usage of 'arche', that it could be applied to rulers, principalities, etc. I checked your reference Revelation 3:14, and though the application of 'arche' is defined as "that by which anything begins to be, the origin, active cause", your other references ( Colossians 1:16 & Ephesians 3:10) certainly apply to 'principalities/rulers'. And other references are given in support of this: Luke 12:11, Titus 3:1, Ephesians 1:21, Colossians 2:10, & others. So thank you for giving us more to consider in this matter.
May I intervene in your discussion saying something about the verses in Col 1:15-18
"15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by(in grk through) him(also see Ephesians 3:9), and for him:"
17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence"
1. "first born of every creature", the grk says "prototokos(first born) pases(of all) ktiseos(of creation)" .___"Prototokos" comes from "protos(first)" and the verb "tikto(give birth)"___ As Chris has said it doesn't say "protoktistos" which means "first to be created".
What does Paul mean with that? Which is that creation he is refering to. There are many interpretations of that.
a. The Orthodox church believes that Jesus as a God was born by His Father before the creation of the world (see the Nicene Creed). So as a son of a father who is God He is also God. Later during the Roman times He was also born by the Spirit and Mary as a man. So He is Son of God and Son of Man. This is what they believe.
b. Other beliefs. Firstly lets see the verse in Gal 6:14-15, " For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature." The grk actually says "creation" not "creature". New creation.
As you see in Col 1:18 Paul calls Jesus "first born from the dead" and he also says about Jesus "that in all things he might have the preeminence"
Taking all those into account a possible interpretation is (and this is the belief of many in my church) that first born of all creation means that Jesus was the first child of God among all other born(again) children (us, God's children)
See part 2.
There is no end of the world.
Ephesians 3:21 .... world without end ...
We get mixed up all the time, because our old mind hasn't totally BEEN RENEWED to the mind of Christ.
The end of the world is one example.
The end of the world (age) (in the fullness of time) came when Christ was resurrected, he said: Behold, I make all things new.
Probably a more accurate translation would be the end of the AGE, or the fullness of time.
The 1000 year reign with Christ is NOW, running parallel, with this age, but we are not of this age, because in the fullness of time we became a new creation.
Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this age, be be ye TRANSFORMED by the RENEWING (all things have become new) of your mind.
He give us the parable of the seed, Christ, being the SEED.
The corn plant was the example.
If you plant a corn SEED in the ground, that SEED will DIE, and a green plant will emerge, that looks nothing like the SEED that was planted.
That plant grows and as it matures it slowly begins to naturally die, then the SEED is harvested by the farmer, and the good SEED is put in the barn.
It's put in the barn to be used as FOOD and for REPLANTING.
This is exactly what happen to the new new creation.
Christ the SEED, DIED, and was raised up, the green plant raised up with Christ (you and I), looks nothing like the SEED, but when we become mature (by the words of God), God sends the angels and they harvest us, our body that brought the SEED to maturity, is no longer needed, it goes back to the ground it came from, and the SEED goes back to the barn to be used as FOOD and REPLANTING SEED.
The OLD saints, now chariots of fire, and all that have been harvested in the last 2000 years, have become SEED for eating and replanting, they are workers in God's vineyard, all called at different hours of the day, they are causing you to mature and become a SEED.
Matthew 20:1-10
Isaiah 59:21
Isaiah 66:15
2 Kings 6:17
God Bless YOU!
I'm going to need to begin another thread, I've mistakenly clicked the notification to not have any more replies on our previous thread.
Jesse,
You ask for concrete proof, it's been given to you, you've chosen to reject Light
You may remain in unbelief, I would not advise it, Heb 11:6 1Cor 15:34
I've openly stated that I'm in the work of the washing of regeneration & renewing in the Holy Spirit, the work of sanctification of the Spirit unto obedience & sprinkling to the Blood/Life of Jesus.
The phases themselves indicates a cleansing from sin & a renewing into the image of Him who created him.
I've experience through the years, that this cleansing is not only from the committing of sin, but from the temptations to commit sin, though not submitted too. Their powers are weakened as I pick up the Cross & deny self in the inward parts, were thoughts are formed & birth, springs forth & we become conscious of them, Holy Spirit quickens me in my conscience to their stratagem within & without & makes me to learn Wisdom, Job 28:28 He preserves me 1Pet 1:5 by faith in the inward Voice, Grace appearance.
Surrendering to Christ is not a one time thing, it's a daily surrendering, as one exercises & abides in known Truth & as new light & knowledge is shined into our hearts in the face of Jesus Christ. Paul says at the end of his life, "I have kept the Faith"
A Christian life is one of constant growth, a perfection that can be added too. Even in our unperfected state there's a perfecting of our faith, how else will one ever arrive at 2Cor 7:1 "its from faith to faith, glory to glory".
I appreciate your concern, spiritually, but my faith whom Christ has Authored decrees a cleansing from all sin, Titus 2:14 & according to my faith, so shall it be unto me.
Ephesians 3:19,20 Matt 5:6 both indicating there's no place for darkness to remain & that God is able.
Jesse
Rev 3:6
Time doesn't exist in God's realm, no beginning and no end.
One day is as a thousand years, that is symbolic, one day could also be as a million years.
It's just ONE DAY, TODAY.
Christ was resurrected and it became TODAY; the day of salvation, then, in our time frame, tomorrow, AGAIN, became TODAY the day of SALVATION, over and over for the last 2000 years, It's ALWAYS, TODAY the day of salvation, no beginning and no end.
Ephesians 3:21 ...... through out all AGES ......WORLD WITHOUT END ......
Ecclesiastes 1:9 The thing that hath been, is that which SHALL BE; and that which is done is that which SHALL BE DONE, there is NO NEW THING under the sun.
Hebrews 4:3 For we which have BELIEVED do enter in to REST (the Sabbath) .....the WORKS were FINISHED from the foundation of the world.
TODAY, the DAY of SALVATION, world without end.
God BLESS YOU!
After reading two threads, which stated that "we could never love like God loves" I felt compel by Holy Spirit to correct this belief, that's unscriptural.
Paul states 2Cor 5:14
The love of God that flowed through him, he states in Gal 2:20 it was Christ that dwelling within him, living, moving & having His being within Paul, having His mind, heart & spirit. & where Christ dwells He brings His Father with Him John14:23 & God is love, he became an living expression of the Godhead, there's no way that in this abide abode that God love was not known, felt, displays in his life. Have you ever tried keeping your human love in? What about God ?
Jesus states in John15:10 "abide in His love"
We must believe that we can Ephesians 3:19 as we continue to grow in Grace in the knowledge of His will that
Hebrews 10:10 for faith Gal 5:6
1 John 1:14 perfect love experienced, is what John the beloved "tasted, seen & handled" 1John 4:12
1 Thessalonians 4:9 God taught them how to love as He loves
John 13:14 "as I have love you"
Folks,
To my understanding, Jesus prayer in John 17:21-23 reveals a union between the Spirit & Soul of our Creator & his creatures that unites us in such an wonderous way, that it took Divinity to imagine it, & the Son accomplish all His Father's heart desire. Matt 17:5
Jeremiah 32:38-41 Love never fails.
I quote Heb 4:2 from the NIV, ."1.Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. 2. For we also have had the good news proclaimed to us just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because they did not share the faith of those who obeyed. "
GiGi, also all the grk Bibles I have read so far agree on that matter that the message to the Hebrews was for their entrance to the promised land.
If we wish to know whether the Hebrews at that time did actually know about Christ's sacrifice, we can look at Ephesians 3:4-6, "4.Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ. 5. Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6. That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:"
Why does Paul call God's plan a mystery for the people in OT? Because simply they didn't know about it.
Also please read 1 Cor 2:7, "But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:"
GiGi, the Hebrews were expecting Christ (Messiah) as a king who would free them from their enemies and make them a nation which would rule over all other nations. They never expected Him as a man who would sacrifice Himself for the salvation of all nations, showing this way that they had never known God's mysterious plan. This is how I understand it and if I am wrong let God lead us.
GBU
Ephesians 3:1-15 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: How that by revelation he made known unto me the MYSTERY; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the MYSTERY of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be FELLOWHEIRS{of the New Heavens and New Earth}, and of the SAME BODY{the Israel of God}, and PARTAKERS OF HIS PROMISE in Christ by the gospel: Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; And to make all men see what is the FELLOWSHIP, OF THE MYSTERY which from the FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD HATH BEEN HID IN GOD, who created all things by Jesus Christ: To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the CHURCH {All True Believers throughout history} the manifold wisdom of God, According to the ETERNAL PURPOSE which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord: In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him. Wherefore I desire that ye faint not at my tribulations for you, which is your glory. For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Of whom the WHOLE FAMILY IN HEAVEN AND EARTH{All True Believers throughout history}is named,
Ephesians 3:21 Unto him be glory in the CHURCH{All True Believers throughout history}by Christ Jesus throughout ALL AGES, world without end{the New Heavens and New Earth}. Amen.
There is ONE SALVATION, ONE INHERITANCE for all True Believers throughout history, i.e. the ISRAEL OF GOD.
Ephesians 3:3-4.
The word Mystery in the Greek is used a little different than the way we use the word.
Mystery in the Greek is "musterion" it means something divine that has been unknown up until now but is here now being divinely revealed. "Christ IN US" " The kingdom is at hand" And the kingdom is within you etc.
When God mentions Israel in the OT, he's talking about The Nation of Israel associated with the land.
Are the 12 tribes of Israel a idiom for the Church as well?
Who are those out of the Church is called the remnant of Israel?
When did God scatter them (The Church) among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries?
When God is talking about Israel, he us NEVER talking about the Church. In fact, he makes a great distinction between Israel and the Church. Those who are post cross "Jew and Gentiles make up the Church. However, that union was hid in the OT, Salvation to the Gentiles was mentioned but not as one body. Also, the Church never had geographic land! So how can you bring them back from all nations to the "land" of Israel. The land of Israel belongs to the 12 tribes of Israel. scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries:
Can Jeremiah 16:14-15 be applied to the Church?
"Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that it shall no more be said, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt.
But The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers."
Jeremiah 23:5 makes it clear along with many other verses.
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
God bless.
I believe we are in agreement.
For some reason I thought you were saying the mystery was that salvation went out to the Gentiles and the Desciples wasn't commissioned to preach to them until Paul and Stephen.
Paul was born out of due time so he would be late in the commission.
I believe Christ came to gather the lost sheep of Israel as mentioned in Matthew 15:24.
I agree there was a lot to be fulfilled that was Prophesied in the old testament.
Even his death was prophesied.
Salvation to the heathen.
Even his deity was prophesied " Isaiah 9:6." so I don't hold the view as Gigi as this being the mystery mentioned in Ephesians 3:5-6.
I believe the Mystery goes further than just extending salvation to the Gentiles but that they would be Joint heirs and how it would be accomplished.
By way of the cross and by rebirth by the Holyspirit.
Even when he rose from the dead they asked when was he going to restore the kingdom.
Even when he appeared to them after he rose from the dead some didn't believe.
Not until they received the Holyspirit were they able to comprehend his work.
Being born of God's spirit and baptized into one body was not revealed to them neither could they comprehend it.
I believe this is what Jesus is saying in John 16:12-14.
Also John 14:26 gives an example of how the Holyspirit would reveal revelation to them that the natural mind couldn't comprehend.
God bless.
I'm hoping GOD pulled through for you with shelter over your head. I had a dream last night that I was asking a US retired Marine, to show me how to survive outside, without freezing. I was weeping, (because our situation is dire in real life & in the dream) he started to show me & started to set things up, upon a sheltered rock. I declared urgently "Wait! I have 3 children, this needs to protect them too!" Then he picked the materials up & the situation changed. Later in the dream, I was holding that retired Marine in my arms weightlessly up in water & helping baptize him. Leading him in the walk of a believer in the LORD & Word of GOD. The leader that was supposed to be doing the baptism seemed to be saying things & doing things wrongly. I quickly submerged the Marine under water declaring scripture. He stayed very close to me until a woman needed my help. Then I went with her, helping her fight the evil attacks against her. I'm not sure what the dreams I've been having mean fully, but I came across your prayer request again & I'm going out on a limb thinking it may be connected. I believe many of us that help here on this site, will pray about dire situations but don't have a response we feel is good enough encouragement to post. I have pondered scripture & prayer for you a couple of times. I've even tried to reach out to Samaritan's Purse Ministry on your behalf but my message failed to send in their platform.
We're in a difficult season to say the least. We will make it through these times! I believe it! We need each other in these times & in the days & years ahead. This is a place like: Philippians 2, Philippians 3:10-21, Romans 12:1-13, Ephesians 3:16-21, 2Timothy 2:1-3, James 5:10-11, 2Corinthians 11:25-27, Matthew 8:19-20,
I was reassured in my spirit, these difficult oppressive moments I'm facing are for others. It's a bigger better plan. 2Corinthians 4, Psalms 139, Psalms 37,
Hopefully these are all helpful
Refer to John 3:18-19 and Luke 13:3 (Jesus said to repent or perish)
The Sciptures says that the Holy Spirit, Christ, and the Father all come to dwell within the believer, but all are not remade into baby gods in us, nor replicated in our human persons.
Read Ephesians 2:22 and Ephesians 3:17
John 14:17 and John 14:23
God does not change, as in the Spirit being born in us as child that grows. Only Jesus was Incarnated, not the Holy Spirit.
Read Psalm 102:27 and Hebrews 1:12 and Malachi 3:6
Alex, I know that we have addressed these doctrines before, but I still believe that YOU are the one in direct opposition to the revealed Word of God.
Bless you today, Alex. Always, love in Christ.
Amen to that! I have said this before and this is what I believe about prayer:
To me, prayer is the means by which I express my submission to Gods will in whatever it is I am praying for.
What that means is when I petition the Lord in prayer and ask for His will to be done, I have the promise according to 1 John 5:14-16 that He will answer my prayer.
It doesn't matter what it is, He will answer if I ask according to His will. Now, I know that doesn't mean I'm always going to get what I expect, and my situation might even get worse, but it will be according to His will, and I must accept it and thank Him either way!
Often times people pray for things, whether it be for better health, better finances, new job, or whatever they are praying for, but in their prayer, the do not pray for His will to be done, and then wonder why their prayer was not answered.
But if we pray anything according to His will, that prayer will be heard and answered. And we have to submit and accept whatever His will is.
When I pause here, I don't believe anyone
can piece together words like that in any literature better than that. He is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think!
All that I'm complaining about, all that I'm asking the Lord about, He's doing much more. And He knows so much more.
And it's according to the power that is working in us. The word working is the word energy. According to the DUNAMIS, the power that is energizing in us.
And then the creed concerning the Lord in the next verse ( Ephesians 3:21). Unto him be glory in the church in Christ Jesus into all ages, world without end. Amen.
Just by these verses, Verses 17 through 21, you get that sense and understanding that Paul knows who Jesus is!
Matthew 16:13-17, Luke 4:40,41, Matthew 15:29-38, Isaiah 42:1-7, Matthew 12:17-23,
Luke 24:6,7,15,16,27, in context Luke 24, Luke 23,
Hopefully these are helpful
If we approach the throne as: Job 1:6, Job 2:1, John 1:12, 1John 3:1,2,
Philippians 2:1,
Hopefully these help
Exodus 14:14 kjv, Psalm 59:16 -17 kjv, Isaiah 54:17 kjv, Colossians 1:12-14 kjv.
Ephesians 3:20-21 kjv, Psalm 46:10 kjv.
That's the way I have it as well.
On the Matthew 24:31-46 I think I was responding to Gigi.
Her quote;
By GiGi
The most consistent view in the church over the centuries was that the rapture happens on the Last Day, as Jesus said in Luke 21:27; Matthew 24:29-31. Even Daniel was told that he would arise on the Last Day in Daniel 12:13. This is why I believe that Jesus comes back only once again and will gather believers to Himself on the Last Day.
End quote.
My point was that Matthew 24 was not about the rapture.
Those taken away are gathered for judgment.
She's rapturing the wrong group!
Some say that the tribulation is a time of testing for God's people. Who and what is being tested? God's grip?
We must consider these verses. John 10:28-29.
I John 4:4.
Matthew 28:20.
John 14:18-20.
Ephesians 3:30.
Jude 1:24-25.
Philippians 1:6. Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it UNTIL THE DAY OF JESUS CHRIST:
So it's obvious God is not testing a spirit filled vessel.
TRIBULATION.
This is mentioned in Daniel 12 where a specific time period is mentioned and Jesus confirms it in Matthew 24:15-21. This tribulation is to come upon the whole world. This is not the persecution ( By the world ) promised to the Church in Matthew 5:10 and other places.
There's a huge difference between persecution by the world and tribulation ( UPON ) the world.
Millennium.
Where does Christ thousand years reign here on earth fit in their theology?
My reason for asking is they are split in this view.
If you say the rapture comes after the tribulation and you use Matthew 24 to authenticate that, When is the thousand years reign of Christ here on earth?
Why would you rapture people out of the Millennium?
Some hold the view the Millennium has already begun and the Church will usher in the Millennium by preaching the Gospel.
They say there is no rapture.
Continue this weekend.
God bless.
Thanks for your reply.
John 16:12-14 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, HE WILL GUIDE YOU INTO ALL TRUTH: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: AND HE WILL SHEW YOU THINGS TO COME.
He shall glorify me: FOR HE SHALL RECEIVE OF MINE, AND SHALL SHEW IT UNTO YOU.
When Christ first came he came for the lost sheep of Israel, When they were commissioned by Jesus and "by revelation of the Spirit" they were to take the message to the world using the old testament uncovering the mystery that was later to be revealed.
Paul elaborates on this in Colossians 1:25-26 "Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
Also;
Ephesians 3:9-11 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
In acts when they received the Holyspirit they expounded from the old testament, Which was the promise to Abraham, Blessing to the Gentiles and the mystery of the Church.
These are the same scripture they had all along!
Truth is revealed to us in that same manner. By the Holyspirit.
Apart from the Holyspirit we can read the scripture all day everyday and never get to the debt of the meaning of scripture.
Also;
Christ "in us" gives us a new heart also causes us to walk as he did.
What ever is not done in the spirit is dead works.
God bless.
God bless.
I do not mind repeating to all that the Bible is a complete book Revelation 19:13 for us today to prepare ourselves and others. I pray all to be saved. We cannot have the people caught unaware of Matthew 24:37. To rightly divide is to know for us today what we need to do. So I will say that the 11 apostles messages are important for the physical Jews Matthew 10:5-7 at the end time; and there are verses in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John that pertains to a spiritual Christians of today.
God had chosen Paul to be His vessel so we can read and believe not in vain. Study the Book of Romans to Philemon because he was the Last and believe it or not the 12th Apostle Galatians 1:1, Acts 9:15, Acts 13:47, Acts 22:21, Roman's 11:13, Ephesians 3:8, 1 Timothy 2:7, Galatians 1:16. After Jesus died He says Hebrews 9:14-17. Then you are Ephesians 1:12-14, 2 Timothy 2:19 and 2 Corinthians 1:22. Therefore, 1 Corinthians 9:2 just like Romans 15:28. Ephesians 4:30 and sing Psalms 49:8, 111:9, 130:7. In conclusion my fellow-believers, Paul is sealed 1 Corinthians 9:2 by God to be our apostle today. Weneedtoputtheworkof Paul not in vain Galatians 6:11. Paul tells us Romans 2:16, Romans 16:25, 2 Timothy 2:8. And the gospel is 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. Then we are sealed Ephesians 1:13. Perhaps you are not understanding me because Revelation 18:4, Proverbs 20:1, Roman's 7:11, 1 Corinthians 6:9, 1 Corinthians 15:33, Galatians 6:7, 1 Timothy 2:14, 2 Timothy 3:13, Titus 3:3, and lastly Revelation 18:23. Psalm 37:1-40 then we meditate Psalms 27:1-3. Shalom/Agape.
I don't use the word 'creation' to refer to Christ's appearance, as that denotes that God created Jesus, as One Who had no previous existence (e.g. Adam & Eve were created, the angels were created, animals, etc. as well). Whereas Jesus was never created as He is the Word incarnate (made flesh); i.e. the Word was always in God's Being & God took His Word and embodied His Word with humanity. The Word, though in human form, never ceased to be vitally connected to God, i.e. the Word was always Divine (holding the Divine Nature), but for the sake of taking upon Himself flesh, for suffering & dying, Jesus made Himself of no reputation ( Philippians 2:6-8): Greek for that is 'ekenosen', emptied Himself of His full Divinity - which He had to of course, to become man with human limitations, aging & death.
You've also said that "Jesus is an EXTENSION of God" & I think I can understand your meaning with this, but I wouldn't use 'creation' for Jesus, because how can a created One also be the Creator & Sustainer of all things ( Ephesians 3:9; Colossians 1:13-17)? So, I'm unsure whether we're saying the same things & using specific words to describe Jesus' manifestation, or whether we need to discuss further what I've shared about the eternal Nature of Christ Jesus. Blessings.
More verses to prove Jesus is God. I will pray that you will be guided by the Holy Spirit in your journey to God. Agape.
1 Corinthians 1:10
Romans 16:25
1 Corinthians 1:9
2 Corinthians 8:6
2 Corinthians 1:19
2 Corinthians 4:6
2 Corinthians 5:18
2 Corinthians 13:14
Ephesians 1:17
Ephesians 3:9
Philippians 2:11
Revelation 1:5
Revelation 1:9
you concerning a specific situation that you cannot know by the five senses. Example 2 KINGS 13-16 VERSE 16
you will embrace a son. another example in 2 KINGS 7:1 was stated at the time when there was a famine so great
that there was cannibalism 2 Kings 6:26-29 and the king blamed the man of GOD. iN 7:1 basically Elisha says
thus sayeth the lord revealed knowledge or word of knowledge in 24 hours there will be great abundance in the city
and of course the ones he talked to thought he was nuts! This also operates correctly with scripture and must
Glorify the true God and bless the body of CHRIST. Last in Ephesians 3:1-4 Paul was given in the church epistles
all knowledge concerning the Body of CHRIST no other man was given the abundance of the revelations that Paul
was given that's why the adversary wanted him dead. Everywhere he went and taught the freedom in Christ Jesus
there were unbelievers right behind him trying to talk people out of the walk via the spirit. Things haven't changed
there is nothing new under the sun.
holy spirit. Best definition I've ever heard is the outward manifestation of the inward prasence of the power of holy
spirit. In the first century church this was not limited to the apostles other believers spoke in tongues and performed
miracles etc. It is interesting to note that to the corinthians in 14:18 Paul states I thank God I speak in tongues more than
ye all. So whats the benefit. Acts 2:11 speaking the wonderful works of God, Private prayer life 1 Cor. 14:4+5 Edification
of our spirit 1 Cor. 14:4, communication with God in divine mysteries or secrets. 1 Cor. 14:2, giving thanks well 1 Cor 14:17
keeps us aware we are Gods children and joint heirs with Christ Roman8:16, helps us with our infirmities Romans8:26,
makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God Romans 8:26+27,strenghthens us with His might in the Inner
man Ephesians 3:16, sign to unbelievers in the church new people 1 Cor.14:12. These are all the wonderful benefits again all
things of God are profitable and glorify Him when operated correctly in order with Gods LOVE. P.S. I've seen many times
these things are more in total confusion. LAST 1 Cor. 14:40 Let everything be done decently and in order. That's Godly Amen