Questions as to why specific writings became 'apocrypha' and subsequently removed from the original KJV is simply that content therein cemented the foundation of the word giving greater understanding. A time for everything and everything has a time.
You are replying to a comment by "Charlie Slaves"
If you read from Genesis to Revelation their is a common theme. The Promise seed Genesis 3:15, Israel Gods chosen people , The coming one the messiah, Israel's disobedience and captivity, Jehovah ( Psalm 83:18) mercy and delivering his people from captivity because they repented. Even the book of Ruth played a part in the symbolic descendant role in the promise seed
Matthew 1:5.
How does the book of Esther add up? this book talks about Jews being in Shushan. The Jews were always in captivity by their enemies for their deliberate disobedience to Jehovah- Nehemiah 13:23-31; Esther 2:6 (Exile). Esther didn't have a choice; she was in exile or in captivity as while and taken to the kings house- Esther 2:8. Jehovah god blessed this situation because they relied on him when Haman tried to scheme or plot to destroy all the Jews Esther 3:5-15. This book is accurate because it matches the other books regarding Jews being in captivity or exile.
When you read the apocrypha does it match the bibles overall theme? does this puzzle pieces match?
Thank you Charlie for those thoughts. I must admit that most of them go over my head, especially when I try to relate them to what I read in the Bible. But to focus on some things you have written here that might help me to understand you better.
"the cause of most evil doings is a lack of knowledge as to where we are"; "If we teach spiritual breath first, stillness of mind, governance of emotions and feelings, thought will prevail and prevent waywardness of this I am sure"; "The Christ seed is within us all; such is the grand design of man."
Should I understand then that 'most' of the evil man does is because of ignorance of who he is & where he is in God's Design? That to teach a child in his formative years about mind & emotion control, will enable him to stay on the right path in life? That all who are born into the world have the 'seed of Christ', or as you wrote, "If everybody knew they are in the kingdom of GOD", is this how you perceive the world of fallen man?
If I've understood you correctly, where does the entrance of sin fit in & the subsequent transfer of that sin nature to every person born into the world? From reading, & trying to absorb your beliefs behind your words, it seems that we should understand that all people are God's creation with the Kingdom of God within them & only through self-realization, self-determination & effort, & true & full knowledge of God, can we find peace, happiness & God's acceptance. I realize that I've added my own words that may not reflect yours correctly, but that's how I read them. So my question would be, 'where does the teaching of man's inherent sin nature fit in, with the only repair available to him being through Christ's blood shed; that Sacrifice being man's substitute to satisfy God's Wrath?' If man can simply acquire knowledge & through persistent effort fully realize God's Kingdom within him, would this not negate the whole biblical message of salvation & entire forgiveness & cleansing?
Charlie. Our moral compass, I find, is not always the most reliable yardstick to perfectly attain God's Standard of morality & Truth. Simply because that which is in our hearts & from our many life's experiences can still be tainted by the appeals & persuasions of the flesh. For sure, if we fully believed God's Word & fully submitted to His Spirit to lead us in the ways of righteousness, then there can be great confidence that the path we walk down, our beliefs, our opinions, & the decisions we make, might very closely align with the Truth & Will of God for us. But how often is that the case? While we remain in the flesh, we will always be susceptible to it to some degree. But of course, God doesn't judge us for our human failings or sins of omission, but for the condition of our hearts & minds towards Him, all the while looking to Him for mercy to help us in time of our great need or inadequacy.
What we have been given by God in the written Word is sufficient to know His Will for mankind & for each of us personally. We have to believe that or else we tread on dangerous ground if other writings are readily accepted as Truth. We might then syncretize all writings together hoping to form a greater more fuller body of 'truth', when in fact, Truth might have become adulterated to some degree leaving the reader either hopelessly confused or formulating a belief system based on his own imaginations. It is sad enough when we all read from the same Scriptures & yet find that we can still understand them differently & come to various conclusions. If we then add any other writing to it, what then does that do to our understanding? I think it tragic that some hold to beliefs of the Serpent Seed doctrine, or of a purgatory for a final cleansing, even that works can also bring justification. Where do these beliefs come from - certainly not from the given precious Word of God. We need great care in what we read & what we believe, accepting as truth.
To clarify my meaning to the Rule I use, Charlie, I don't think my "question suggests restriction in acceptance of truth", rather, my restriction is not dependent on what I perceive to be truth, but the yardstick I use to determine it. If no gauge is used against any body of writing, then I would think that my mind would accept all the ideas & beliefs presented therein, not giving much concern as to what is written & then digested, believing that time & eternity will reveal all.
Rather, the Bible is given to us (i.e. those parchments recovered & preserved for us), so that we might not only learn the Mind & Purpose of God in humanity, but be able to confidently treasure those doctrines & Truths taught, to see how they measure up to anything else presented to us. I don't believe that man needs to attain a heightened state of spiritual understanding to be able to weigh up the differences between truth & error. If we are careful in our reading & study of the Scriptures & knowing that not everything presented to us is true, then Truth & error become apparent.
Even "that God is within every man, male and female" can't be correct, as there are too many Scriptures to show that wickedness & deceitfulness lies in the heart of each one of us and none of us our righteous, not even one ( Jeremiah 17:9; Psalm 14:1-4 & Romans 3:9-18). What we have here then, is whether the words & instructions of men are equal to or more worthy than the Word of God. Not only from the pages of the Bible, but also from visible demonstrations of the workings of men's hearts, we find that mankind has rejected his Creator & His Word, doing all that satisfies his flesh & corrupt mind - all proving that God could never be found in man, but He is clearly evident when He sends His Spirit to regenerate & restore man from an unrighteous to a righteous state. And this is where Truth comes to the fore: when the Bible is held against any other writing, & this other one is found wanting.
David0921 no offence but the book in the right hand of the Father is that New COVENANT by the blood of Jesus at Calvary....That book of life that Jesus wrote with his own blood....But the bible is not that same book of life....The Jews had the bible the Torah they were sola scriptura....Bible only...But they stoned almost all the prophets....But Jesus tells them they were of their father the devil....Thats y Jesus is saying Search the scriptures in them you think you have eternal life but its them that testify of me....Which is the H.G. THE LIVING WORD a living being the manchild that is gonna rule all nations...That spirit of truth that Jesus said is gonna reprove the world of sin and righteousness and judgement....plz note the Prince of this world cannot be judged by the bible the written word....He can only be judged by the manchild the H.G. that Child of Promise...The spirit of truth the man child which is the H.G.THE CONTENTS OF THAT BOOK in the fathers right hand ....The book of life....David if the bible cd have given us a new covenant at CALVARY....And redeemed humanity then Jesus shed his blood in vain and the CROSS WAS JUST FOOLISHNESS....There was no ETERNAL LIFE IN THE BIBLE THE SCRIPTURES....This N.C. CD ONLY COME BY THE BLOOD OF Jesus at Calvary....Which resulted in that book of life in the fathers right hand....Love your zeal David Gbu....
God is very jealous for His Word. That Word is the Bible ALONE and in its ENTIRETY. Why would anyone want to challenge God on that score when the penalties for doing so are so great.
Revelation 22:18,19
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
There is no more serious question when it comes to our relationship with God.
Thank you Charlie for your further comments. Just to hone in on your words: "they (the apocryphal writings) remain steadfast as immovable lines upon which we each write our own uni-verse into the book of creation"; there have certainly been a lot more material written, more than we see in the Canon of Scripture, but in the final analysis, all words have to be subject to a pre-determined accepted body of Scripture where Truth is paramount.
If there is any clear conflict observed against the Canon of Scriptures, then that writing has to be read with great care, even treated with suspicion. I always use this rule: even in the Qur'an there is much Truth to be read - but would I ever use it to gain knowledge & inspiration to live a godly life? What does this book or any apocryphal book hold for me that I can't fully receive, hold onto & depend on, than God's Word to us in the Bible?
Hello Charlie. I don't believe that the Old Testament Apocryphal Books were largely accepted by the Church. Many had accepted them as authoritative & scriptural & even included them in the Canon of Scripture (whether within the OT framework or as additions to it), but many didn't accept them for various reasons.
If you're enquiring as to why these books were not included or even removed from the Canon, then the reasons are many. Some of them are: they were never cited as books of reference in the NT (even though we have Jude 1:14,15 & 2 Timothy 3:8 as possible examples). These quotations by Jude & Paul do give some authoritative weight to those books, though they are only mentioned to strengthen the text, just as Paul referred to the Cretians ( Titus 1:12) & in Acts 17:28 (to the Athenian poets).
The Apocrypha books were never accepted by the Jews as divinely inspired writings & were never a part of the Hebrew canon. Those books were written during those 400 'silent years' between the Testaments. Both Jewish & NT sources agree that no divinely inspired prophetic utterance occurred at that time. Jesus never referred to them as He often did to the accepted OT Scriptures. As well, even though some Truth can be gleaned from those books, they do also contain errors, both in historical matters & doctrine. When any writing, then or now, gives details that are contrary to what has been given to us (even that of the NT Apocrypha), then they must be held in suspicion. Many do read from those apocryphal books & have even asked on this Site about their authenticity & authority, but I've always shared that if one is inclined to read or study from them, that they do so guardedly & with utmost care (watching for historical & doctrinal inaccuracies), always resorting to the accepted Canon of Scripture as their final authority.
Here are several scriptures I found about death & after death : James 2:26, Ecclesiasticus 38:23, Ecclesiasticus 22:11, 2 Maccabees 7:36, 2 Maccabees 12:44, Ecclesiasticus 10:11, Ecclesiasticus 17:28, Baruch, 2:17, Psalms 88:10, Psalms 115:11, Ecclesiastes 9:5,
after death,: Matthew 17:1-3, Luke 7:12-16, Luke 8:49-56, John 11:21-45, Matthew 27:50-54, Luke 16:22-31, John 21:14, Acts 3:15, Acts 4:10, Mark 12:25,26,27, Luke 24:46, John 5:12, John 5:25, 1 Peter 1:3, 1 Peter 2:24, 1 Peter 4:5, Revelation 1:5, Revelation 1:18, Revelation 14:9-20, 1 Corinthians 15:20,21, 2 Timothy 4:1, 1 Thessalonians 4:16, 1 Thessalonians 1:10, Matthew 25:31-46, Romans 14:9, Matthew 22:32, Isaiah 26:19,
This is the heritage given unto the 12 tribes of Israel, the true seed of Israel who are under the curse right now. See also the continuation of the precept for knowledge when we rejected knowledge Hosea 4 6, Jeremiah 17 4, and Isaiah 1 3.
Questions as to why specific writings became 'apocrypha' and subsequently removed from the original KJV is simply that content therein cemented the foundation of the word giving greater understanding. A time for everything and everything has a time.
You are replying to a comment by "Charlie Slaves"
If you read from Genesis to Revelation their is a common theme. The Promise seed Genesis 3:15, Israel Gods chosen people , The coming one the messiah, Israel's disobedience and captivity, Jehovah ( Psalm 83:18) mercy and delivering his people from captivity because they repented. Even the book of Ruth played a part in the symbolic descendant role in the promise seed
Matthew 1:5.
How does the book of Esther add up? this book talks about Jews being in Shushan. The Jews were always in captivity by their enemies for their deliberate disobedience to Jehovah- Nehemiah 13:23-31; Esther 2:6 (Exile). Esther didn't have a choice; she was in exile or in captivity as while and taken to the kings house- Esther 2:8. Jehovah god blessed this situation because they relied on him when Haman tried to scheme or plot to destroy all the Jews Esther 3:5-15. This book is accurate because it matches the other books regarding Jews being in captivity or exile.
When you read the apocrypha does it match the bibles overall theme? does this puzzle pieces match?
does it complete the whole picture?
I hope this answers your question. Thank you
I was wondering how to respond to his posts since they contain so much anti-Christian statements and promote many "New Age" thoughts.
I am glad that you replied to him at the core of what was to be addressed. Thanks again.
"the cause of most evil doings is a lack of knowledge as to where we are"; "If we teach spiritual breath first, stillness of mind, governance of emotions and feelings, thought will prevail and prevent waywardness of this I am sure"; "The Christ seed is within us all; such is the grand design of man."
Should I understand then that 'most' of the evil man does is because of ignorance of who he is & where he is in God's Design? That to teach a child in his formative years about mind & emotion control, will enable him to stay on the right path in life? That all who are born into the world have the 'seed of Christ', or as you wrote, "If everybody knew they are in the kingdom of GOD", is this how you perceive the world of fallen man?
If I've understood you correctly, where does the entrance of sin fit in & the subsequent transfer of that sin nature to every person born into the world? From reading, & trying to absorb your beliefs behind your words, it seems that we should understand that all people are God's creation with the Kingdom of God within them & only through self-realization, self-determination & effort, & true & full knowledge of God, can we find peace, happiness & God's acceptance. I realize that I've added my own words that may not reflect yours correctly, but that's how I read them. So my question would be, 'where does the teaching of man's inherent sin nature fit in, with the only repair available to him being through Christ's blood shed; that Sacrifice being man's substitute to satisfy God's Wrath?' If man can simply acquire knowledge & through persistent effort fully realize God's Kingdom within him, would this not negate the whole biblical message of salvation & entire forgiveness & cleansing?
What we have been given by God in the written Word is sufficient to know His Will for mankind & for each of us personally. We have to believe that or else we tread on dangerous ground if other writings are readily accepted as Truth. We might then syncretize all writings together hoping to form a greater more fuller body of 'truth', when in fact, Truth might have become adulterated to some degree leaving the reader either hopelessly confused or formulating a belief system based on his own imaginations. It is sad enough when we all read from the same Scriptures & yet find that we can still understand them differently & come to various conclusions. If we then add any other writing to it, what then does that do to our understanding? I think it tragic that some hold to beliefs of the Serpent Seed doctrine, or of a purgatory for a final cleansing, even that works can also bring justification. Where do these beliefs come from - certainly not from the given precious Word of God. We need great care in what we read & what we believe, accepting as truth.
Rather, the Bible is given to us (i.e. those parchments recovered & preserved for us), so that we might not only learn the Mind & Purpose of God in humanity, but be able to confidently treasure those doctrines & Truths taught, to see how they measure up to anything else presented to us. I don't believe that man needs to attain a heightened state of spiritual understanding to be able to weigh up the differences between truth & error. If we are careful in our reading & study of the Scriptures & knowing that not everything presented to us is true, then Truth & error become apparent.
Even "that God is within every man, male and female" can't be correct, as there are too many Scriptures to show that wickedness & deceitfulness lies in the heart of each one of us and none of us our righteous, not even one ( Jeremiah 17:9; Psalm 14:1-4 & Romans 3:9-18). What we have here then, is whether the words & instructions of men are equal to or more worthy than the Word of God. Not only from the pages of the Bible, but also from visible demonstrations of the workings of men's hearts, we find that mankind has rejected his Creator & His Word, doing all that satisfies his flesh & corrupt mind - all proving that God could never be found in man, but He is clearly evident when He sends His Spirit to regenerate & restore man from an unrighteous to a righteous state. And this is where Truth comes to the fore: when the Bible is held against any other writing, & this other one is found wanting.
God is very jealous for His Word. That Word is the Bible ALONE and in its ENTIRETY. Why would anyone want to challenge God on that score when the penalties for doing so are so great.
Revelation 22:18,19
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
There is no more serious question when it comes to our relationship with God.
If there is any clear conflict observed against the Canon of Scriptures, then that writing has to be read with great care, even treated with suspicion. I always use this rule: even in the Qur'an there is much Truth to be read - but would I ever use it to gain knowledge & inspiration to live a godly life? What does this book or any apocryphal book hold for me that I can't fully receive, hold onto & depend on, than God's Word to us in the Bible?
If you're enquiring as to why these books were not included or even removed from the Canon, then the reasons are many. Some of them are: they were never cited as books of reference in the NT (even though we have Jude 1:14,15 & 2 Timothy 3:8 as possible examples). These quotations by Jude & Paul do give some authoritative weight to those books, though they are only mentioned to strengthen the text, just as Paul referred to the Cretians ( Titus 1:12) & in Acts 17:28 (to the Athenian poets).
The Apocrypha books were never accepted by the Jews as divinely inspired writings & were never a part of the Hebrew canon. Those books were written during those 400 'silent years' between the Testaments. Both Jewish & NT sources agree that no divinely inspired prophetic utterance occurred at that time. Jesus never referred to them as He often did to the accepted OT Scriptures. As well, even though some Truth can be gleaned from those books, they do also contain errors, both in historical matters & doctrine. When any writing, then or now, gives details that are contrary to what has been given to us (even that of the NT Apocrypha), then they must be held in suspicion. Many do read from those apocryphal books & have even asked on this Site about their authenticity & authority, but I've always shared that if one is inclined to read or study from them, that they do so guardedly & with utmost care (watching for historical & doctrinal inaccuracies), always resorting to the accepted Canon of Scripture as their final authority.
after death,: Matthew 17:1-3, Luke 7:12-16, Luke 8:49-56, John 11:21-45, Matthew 27:50-54, Luke 16:22-31, John 21:14, Acts 3:15, Acts 4:10, Mark 12:25,26,27, Luke 24:46, John 5:12, John 5:25, 1 Peter 1:3, 1 Peter 2:24, 1 Peter 4:5, Revelation 1:5, Revelation 1:18, Revelation 14:9-20, 1 Corinthians 15:20,21, 2 Timothy 4:1, 1 Thessalonians 4:16, 1 Thessalonians 1:10, Matthew 25:31-46, Romans 14:9, Matthew 22:32, Isaiah 26:19,
Hebrews 11:35, Revelation 20, 2 Esdras 2:16, Hebrews 6:2, Hebrews 9:14, Hebrews 11:4, Hebrews 13:20, Revelation 11:18,
Hopefully these are helpful.
* Psalms 139,
Genesis 3:8, Genesis 4:16, Jonah 1:3, 2 Corinthians 3:17, Psalms 95:2, Psalms 16:11,
Deuteronomy 11:10-13, Leviticus 22:3, Psalms 114:7, Psalms 68:8, Psalms 97:5, Romans 8:16, 1 Kings 9:3, 2 Chronicles 2:16-19, Job 10:4, Psalms 11:4, Psalms 34:15, Psalms 145:14-16, Proverbs 5:21, Proverbs 15:3, Hebrews 4:11-14, 1 Peter 3:12, Ecclesiasticus 15:19, Ecclesiasticus 17:15,19, Ecclesiasticus 34:16, Ecclesiasticus 39:19,
Hebrews 9:24,
Jude 1:24,
Revelation 19:6,
Do you have a Bible comment or question?
Please Sign In or Register to post comments...
Report Comment
Which best represents the problem with the comment?