Hello Gwynette. There are examples in the Bible of those who suicided. One is in 1 Samuel 31:4, when King Saul wanted his armour-bearer to kill him as he was wounded in the battle. He refused, so Saul "fell upon his own sword" & his armour-bearer seeing this & the implications that would have upon him, also did likewise. There is also Samson ( Judges 16:26-30) who with his great strength from the Lord, pulled down the pillars of the building that he was prisoner in, thus killing himself & many Philistines that were gathered there. And we know about Judas Iscariot as well ( Matthew 27:3-5) who hanged himself after he realized his sin in betraying Jesus.
So even though we have instances of suicide, I don't believe the Bible ever talks specifically about it as being sin. Why some believe that suicide is sin, is because by definition, it is self-murder & murder in any form is sin. I know that one who contemplates suicide does so under very trying mental, emotional & physical conditions - a good friend of mine having taken his own life because of severe end-stage multiple sclerosis. I tried my best to encourage him & give him hope, but his continual body pain & loss of movement was too much & made existence meaningless for him. Every avenue should be resorted to so that such a desperate person may receive help & counsel & most cities have a Lifeline phone number to assist.
Hi "Gary cunningham", ty for the info, have never even stumbled upon this :) In my KJV there is a reference to 2 Samuel 1.21 and 21, 12. This had little meaning. But further: 2 Samuel 21, where we learn more about the bones. Hope this could help you, forgive me if i talk in the nightcap.
Confusion can be an answer. And many translations. But there are many really good ppl in here who may understand this better.
Hello Gary. In Hebrew, the tree that you read about in 1 Samuel 31:13, is called 'eshel', & this refers to a tamarisk tree. However, in a corresponding passage in 1 Chronicles 10:12, the KJV shows it as 'oak', with the Hebrew ('elah') identifying it as the terebinth tree.
Why the Bible translators used 'tree & oak' in these passages is uncertain. It maybe at the time, those particular trees (tamarisk & terebinth) were not readily identifiable/understood or using botanical names may have been confounding to the readers, or even the appearance of two different Hebrew words in two different passages for the same tree could have also presented problems. So generic terms were used, as also seen in Genesis 21:33 (Heb. 'eshel' = grove). It would have been more appropriate to use the Hebrew to English equivalents in the Bible regardless, I would think; yet, there is no error in the KJV for using the generic words, as the intent of the texts remain unchanged.
hi to all. Can anyone throw light on verse 13. In all other bible versions a tamarisk tree is the burial place of Saul. The AV has a nameless tree. where do the other version get Tamarisk from. Reading bible for over 50 years never seen this before. Just shows how little I know.
Hi JoAnn. We do find evidences of cremation in the Bible, but chiefly amongst the Gentiles & not the Jews. In the case of Israel, we can read of an instance in 1 Samuel 31:11-13, where the bodies of Saul & his sons were burnt but the bones preserved & buried. Then in Leviticus 20:14, a punishment instituted by the LORD for taking both a mother & her daughter into the same bed, was by burning with fire; though not strictly a cremation here, the idea of dealing with a body with fire is clear. Among the heathen of those days, cremation was the norm.
So the decision whether to bury or cremate lies solely with the bereaved family members. There's no instruction in the Bible specifically against cremation, & understanding that the corpse & casket eventually decomposes to join with the earth, it becomes a matter of personal preference. Usually, the dignity of burial of a loved one or the costs associated with either, influence whether there should be a burial or cremation. My preference is for a burial even considering the higher costs involved with it, as it gives the greater dignity to the deceased, a specific place of rest & identification, & in line with practises of Israel even in Jesus' day. I don't believe that a cremation has bearing on the matter of the resurrection, as the Lord is well able to bring a body to life from the smallest particle or even given a new body where nothing exists. We can consider the many drowned in the oceans, burned in fires, or consumed by animals of days past; what matters is that the departed one has expressed true faith in Jesus for salvation, for the spirit can never be destroyed & is secure in Christ, with the Lord.
Tammy, I don't believe that it's a sin to want to be cremated or for another person to take that decision to do so to the deceased. At least, the Bible doesn't speak of it in those terms. The evidence of cremation is generally seen amongst the heathen, whether for their dead or as part of human sacrifice. Amongst Israel, cremation was not normally done, rather a burial or entombment. Though we do see evidence of cremation in 1 Samuel 31:11-13 (Saul & his sons) & Joshua 7:25 (Achan's sin).
So cremation is one option of dealing with the deceased. In both cases, burial or cremation, the body returns to its former state. It then becomes a matter of how respect is best shown, preservation of the cremains, & of costs associated with it. My preference would, as far as possible, be a burial, in line with biblical practises.
I looked into this a little for you. As I know it comes up in that some people don't believe you should cremate a dead body. As it seems some have stated it may keep that person from "being resurrected" in the end.
So one verse came up where a body was burned before burial. 1 Samuel 31:11-13.
As there is no direct Scripture against cremation. The people of Israel would normally buried their dead. As today the cost to bury a dead body is very high. Cremation is the most cost effective way to dispose of someones remains in my knowledge.
In my knowledge it really doesn't matter what is done to the body after death. We are all dust and, our bodies, return to dust after our death. Job 34:14-15. As the saying "ashes to ashes, dust to dust". If any think it has anything to do that whoever was cremated won't be resurrected. I'd say "what about people who died in a fire, eaten by a shark, or mutilated in a terrible car accident, or something?" Hopefully they wouldn't think that has anything to do with God being able to resurrect them on the last day. As God can do anything.
I hope my view helps you. If anyone else has any other view feel free to post.
Hello James. As far as I know, the Bible is silent on this topic, probably because it was not a practice of God's people, rather more in line to what the heathen would do. The references that come up are found in the Old Testament: 1 Samuel 31:11-13; Amos 2:1; Leviticus 20:14. However, Israel generally resorted to burial in a tomb, cave or ground: Genesis 23:19; 2 Chronicles 16:14; Matthew 27:57-60.
So, the Church is not given a specific direction on this, as ultimately, the body returns to dust "from whence it came" ( Ecclesiastes 12:7). It then becomes the decision by the family of the departed to have a burial or a cremation, depending on preference, costs, or availability. My choice would always be for a burial, in line with what was practised by Israel.
Saul is dead. Sad that his son Jonathon died as he was closed to David. Curious to read further if now opportunity for David to become king of Israel. Even in the eye of death Saul rather die by his own hand than the enemy.
What you read in 1 Samuel 31:4,5, does show that Saul & his armour bearer fell on their swords & were buried by the inhabitants of Jabeshgilead under a tree at Jabesh (vv 11-13).
Then in 2 Samuel 21:12, King David comes onto the scene. He willing to avenge the death of the Gibeonites, took Saul's children, except Mephibosheth, & gave them to the King of Gibeon to slaughter them to avenge the death of his people. This they did & then David, hearing of this later, came to where the remains of Saul & the others were & took them & buried them amongst the tribe of Benjamin (vv 12-14).
However, the apparent discrepancy about Saul falling on his sword or whether the Philistines killed him instead, can be cleared up by understanding that, Saul's wounding was as 'sore wounding', i.e. it was a fatal wound but that death would be some time in coming. Thus Saul hurried it up by committing suicide. But the Scripture tells us that the Philistines actually struck the death blow - Saul just finishing off the job, so to speak.
Donna, there are examples in the Bible of those who suicided. One is in 1 Samuel 31:4, when King Saul wanted his armour-bearer to kill him as he was wounded in the battle. He refused, so Saul "fell upon his own sword" & his armour-bearer seeing this & the implications that would have upon him, also did likewise. There is also Samson ( Judges 16:26-30) who with his great strength from the Lord, pulled down the pillars of the building that he was prisoner in, thus killing himself & many Philistines that were gathered there. And then we have Judas Iscariot ( Matthew 27:3-5) who hanged himself after he realized his sin in betraying Jesus.
So even though we have instances of suicide, I don't believe the Bible ever talks specifically about it as being sin. Why we say that suicide is sin, is because by definition, it is self-murder & wilful murder in any form is sin. I know that one who contemplates suicide does so under very trying mental, emotional & physical conditions - a good friend of mine having taken his own life because of severe multiple sclerosis. I tried my best to encourage him & give him hope, but the pain & loss of movement was too much & made existence meaningless. Every avenue should be resorted to so that such a desperate person may receive help & counsel & most cities have a Lifeline phone number to assist.
There actually are simple... Asherah, or Ashtoreth, was the name of the chief female deity worshiped in ancient Syria, Phoenicia, and Canaan. The Phoenicians called her Astarte, the Assyrians worshiped her as Ishtar, and the Philistines had a temple of Asherah ( 1 Samuel 31:10).
Is there any version of the bible that states that "Saul purposely stumbled on his own sword so that he may be with the Lord". I remember reading it that way but can't seem to find it . Thank you
Anonymous, an archer is usually considered to be a soldier unit that use a bow and arrow to destroy their enemies. Glory be to God in the highest through our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ! Amen.
So even though we have instances of suicide, I don't believe the Bible ever talks specifically about it as being sin. Why some believe that suicide is sin, is because by definition, it is self-murder & murder in any form is sin. I know that one who contemplates suicide does so under very trying mental, emotional & physical conditions - a good friend of mine having taken his own life because of severe end-stage multiple sclerosis. I tried my best to encourage him & give him hope, but his continual body pain & loss of movement was too much & made existence meaningless for him. Every avenue should be resorted to so that such a desperate person may receive help & counsel & most cities have a Lifeline phone number to assist.
Confusion can be an answer. And many translations. But there are many really good ppl in here who may understand this better.
John Chapter 11 and 12
Stay blessed all ppl in Jesus name, love u all
Why the Bible translators used 'tree & oak' in these passages is uncertain. It maybe at the time, those particular trees (tamarisk & terebinth) were not readily identifiable/understood or using botanical names may have been confounding to the readers, or even the appearance of two different Hebrew words in two different passages for the same tree could have also presented problems. So generic terms were used, as also seen in Genesis 21:33 (Heb. 'eshel' = grove). It would have been more appropriate to use the Hebrew to English equivalents in the Bible regardless, I would think; yet, there is no error in the KJV for using the generic words, as the intent of the texts remain unchanged.
Regards to all
So the decision whether to bury or cremate lies solely with the bereaved family members. There's no instruction in the Bible specifically against cremation, & understanding that the corpse & casket eventually decomposes to join with the earth, it becomes a matter of personal preference. Usually, the dignity of burial of a loved one or the costs associated with either, influence whether there should be a burial or cremation. My preference is for a burial even considering the higher costs involved with it, as it gives the greater dignity to the deceased, a specific place of rest & identification, & in line with practises of Israel even in Jesus' day. I don't believe that a cremation has bearing on the matter of the resurrection, as the Lord is well able to bring a body to life from the smallest particle or even given a new body where nothing exists. We can consider the many drowned in the oceans, burned in fires, or consumed by animals of days past; what matters is that the departed one has expressed true faith in Jesus for salvation, for the spirit can never be destroyed & is secure in Christ, with the Lord.
So cremation is one option of dealing with the deceased. In both cases, burial or cremation, the body returns to its former state. It then becomes a matter of how respect is best shown, preservation of the cremains, & of costs associated with it. My preference would, as far as possible, be a burial, in line with biblical practises.
I looked into this a little for you. As I know it comes up in that some people don't believe you should cremate a dead body. As it seems some have stated it may keep that person from "being resurrected" in the end.
So one verse came up where a body was burned before burial. 1 Samuel 31:11-13.
As there is no direct Scripture against cremation. The people of Israel would normally buried their dead. As today the cost to bury a dead body is very high. Cremation is the most cost effective way to dispose of someones remains in my knowledge.
In my knowledge it really doesn't matter what is done to the body after death. We are all dust and, our bodies, return to dust after our death. Job 34:14-15. As the saying "ashes to ashes, dust to dust". If any think it has anything to do that whoever was cremated won't be resurrected. I'd say "what about people who died in a fire, eaten by a shark, or mutilated in a terrible car accident, or something?" Hopefully they wouldn't think that has anything to do with God being able to resurrect them on the last day. As God can do anything.
I hope my view helps you. If anyone else has any other view feel free to post.
God Bless.
So, the Church is not given a specific direction on this, as ultimately, the body returns to dust "from whence it came" ( Ecclesiastes 12:7). It then becomes the decision by the family of the departed to have a burial or a cremation, depending on preference, costs, or availability. My choice would always be for a burial, in line with what was practised by Israel.
Then in 2 Samuel 21:12, King David comes onto the scene. He willing to avenge the death of the Gibeonites, took Saul's children, except Mephibosheth, & gave them to the King of Gibeon to slaughter them to avenge the death of his people. This they did & then David, hearing of this later, came to where the remains of Saul & the others were & took them & buried them amongst the tribe of Benjamin (vv 12-14).
However, the apparent discrepancy about Saul falling on his sword or whether the Philistines killed him instead, can be cleared up by understanding that, Saul's wounding was as 'sore wounding', i.e. it was a fatal wound but that death would be some time in coming. Thus Saul hurried it up by committing suicide. But the Scripture tells us that the Philistines actually struck the death blow - Saul just finishing off the job, so to speak.
So even though we have instances of suicide, I don't believe the Bible ever talks specifically about it as being sin. Why we say that suicide is sin, is because by definition, it is self-murder & wilful murder in any form is sin. I know that one who contemplates suicide does so under very trying mental, emotional & physical conditions - a good friend of mine having taken his own life because of severe multiple sclerosis. I tried my best to encourage him & give him hope, but the pain & loss of movement was too much & made existence meaningless. Every avenue should be resorted to so that such a desperate person may receive help & counsel & most cities have a Lifeline phone number to assist.
1 Sam 1-31
Hence: Easter = Astarte
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