I thought I would start in the Old Testament; realizing of course that the Holy Spirit didn't remain with a man as it does in the New Testament era. There are; nonetheless principles here that need to be addressed. Perhaps an appropriate start is with the story of Saul and the prophets. 1 Samuel 10:10 states "the Spirit of God came upon him, and he prophesied among them." A similar event happened in 1 Samuel 19:24. When we see the last state of Saul; who the night before his death consulted with a witch to seek his fate ( 1 Samuel 28) and other things that happened once he started pursuing David; we see a man who probably died lost.
The principle here is that God COULD allow certain true manifestations in the Spirit to occur with someone (as we see with Judas Iscariot going out and healing/casting out demons along with the other 11 Disciples in Luke 9:1-2.) The manifestation of the Spirit therefore doesn't guarantee FRUIT of the Spirit which is in all those who have true faith (again as illustrated with the Parable of the Sower and the seed in Matthew 13; and as we see listed in Galatians 5:22-23. We see quite the opposite in Saul; we see jealousy; strife; and a murderous intent; and presence of a tormenting spirit or demon.
Suffering for His name's sake and prioritizing the Lord over everyone and everything else was a challenge the Lord used on many would be disciples such as in Luke 9:57-62 with three men in a row who apparently walked away after being challenged.
Jesus chose His 12 Apostles as Disciples carefully; the 11 who truly believed along with the 12th in the Book of Acts chosen would rule and reign with Christ someday ( Matthew 19:28). This would cost them their lives; however as martyrs except for John. A crown is promised for martyrs ( Rev. 2:10). Others are for pastors; those patiently waiting for His coming; evangelists; and apparently for self control. Many variations exist; let the reader study all passages
The Bible gives us examples to help direct us, I believe. 1Samuel 18:10,11, 1 Samuel 19:7,9,10, 1Samuel 27:1,2, if someone is physically harming you, dangerous it's wisdom to get away. David forgave, but had to wisely stay away from Saul. Please read all of 1Samuel to know the more complete story.
The Holy Spirit did exist & manifest itself in people prior. Genesis 1:2, Genesis 6:3, Genesis 41:38, Judges 3:10, Judges 6:3, Judges 11:29, 1 Samuel 11:6-7, 1 Samuel 16:13, 2 Kings 2:9,
1 Samuel 16:14, 1 Samuel 19:20,
There are more references. Here are some more study references. Hope this helps.
appears to be different in the manifestation unto many people at the same time with many events occurring.
Also people being able to transfer the HOLY Spirit to another seems to appear after CHRIST was resurrected from death & the grave. Acts 1, Acts 9:17,31, Acts 10:44, Acts 11:15,16, Acts 13:52, Acts 19:1-11,
In reference to Laban's idols, apparently they were not as rare an occurrence that might be supposed. The word in Hebrew for 'image' in Genesis 31:19 is 'terapim', or 'teraphim'. And there have been evidences of their possession by the 'God-fearing' (see Judges 17:5 (Micah); 1 Samuel 19:13 (Michal); Hosea 3:4 (Israel)). They're often connected with the 'ephod' & 'urim', so one could suppose that in the absence of the urim & ephod (which were used to learn God's Mind & direction to take), that the teraphim were kept by some to do likewise. So the teraphim (also referred to as 'gods' - Genesis 31:30), were probably not used so much for worship, but in some way to look into the future or for impartation of household blessing. Though the use of idols, images, etc. were condemned ( 2 Kings 23:24), images & teraphim apparently were still kept as a 'rabbit's foot' in households.
Now the fact that Rachel stole her father's teraphim is interesting. Either she wanted to rid them from his house as worthless idols or maybe fearing that they might have some impact on alerting Laban as to where Jacob & his family had fled to, she took them to prevent that happening. Or yet, she may have wanted to take something to remember her father by (no photos in those days) or even to take something of value ( Genesis 31:14,15). By her hiding them (obviously they were very small objects) under the camel's accoutrements, indicates that she held little value to them as objects of worship, or else she wouldn't be sitting on them. But one could be justifiably concerned that Rachel might have given those teraphim some undeserved regard.
Hi T. Lewis What we read in Samuel is a record of Gods anointing Saul then losing the spirit and kingdom then God anoints David with the spirit and Saul goes really south because he tries to kill Gods new Leader david and God and other men of God I.E. prophets.
GOD is amazing & never stops teaching us!! I glanced over this discussion/comment yesterday because at 1st glance it appeared your question was answered. Today I was replying to another question me & David we commenting on. While I researched deeper, it lead me back to one of the scriptures you're referring to 1 Samuel 19:24,
I felt lead to discuss this deeper with you. In context David was fleeing for his life from Saul : 1 Samuel 19:1,9,10,11,15, ( like 5 attempts? ),
1 Samuel 19:18, Saul then "sent messengers to take David" 1 Samuel 19:20,21, they prophesied
then Saul went himself, 1 Samuel 19:22 , 1 Samuel 19:24 it appears to me GOD supernaturally stopped Saul.
Interestingly Saul prophesied the 1st time after Samuel had anointed him king possibly 5 miles away from Ramah. 1 Samuel 10,
Romans 11:29 in NIV "irrevocable" replaces ' repentance '
King David is accredited as author of Psalms 23, here is some of his documented historical references that may help understand deeper: 1 Samuel 19:1,9,10,11,15,18,20-24, 2 Samuel 12:7-14, 2 Samuel 15:14,
Hello Victor Yes in both instances they saw or heard a display of Gods Spirit upon Saul which is why they said is saul one of the prophets because prophets frequently spoke for God and displayed Gods power because they had Gods power upon them.
Did you notice? David feared GOD & would not lay his hand on GOD's anointted & felt remorseful for cutting Saul's garment.
1 Samuel 24:4,5,6 , 1 Samuel 24:10,
Saul also ripped Samuel's garment 1 Samuel 15:27 however 1 Samuel 15:28-29. Even after remorseful repentance 1 Samuel 15:29,30,35
Do think the significance of the clothing was a factor? 1 Samuel 2:19, His mother's sacrifice 1 Samuel 1:28
Saul pursued David to kill him: 1 Samuel 19:1,10,11,15,
& Saul ordered the prophets of GOD killed, possibly unarmed, their families, livestock & nursing babies included.; 1 Samuel 22:17,18,19 Same Saul that left the enemy King & livestock alive in disobedience to GOD's orders. 1 Samuel 15:1,2,3,8,9,
Psalms 105:15
David's mercy 2 Samuel 9:3-7,
David's sin & judgement: 2 Samuel 12:7,9,11,12,14,18, 2 Samuel 13:1,6,7,8,12,13,14,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,28,29,30,31,32, after years 2 Samuel 14:25,30,31,32, 2 Samuel 15:6,10,12,13,14,16,23,30,31, 2 Samuel 16:3,5,6,7,8,11,13,22, 2 Samuel 17:21,23,29, 2 Samuel 18:5,7,9,10,12,14,15,17,20,27,32,33, 2 Samuel 19:1-4, "the sword did not depart from his house" etc. There were more scriptures about his consequences _.
Queen Vashti, consequence Ester 1:19, Ester 2:4
Saul then 1 Samuel 28:3,7,18,19
David has Psalms of remorseful repentance, gives glory to GOD ALMIGHTY, shows mercy & humility at times. With Saul he shows remorse but didn't read much of repentance, etc.
Hi Davy A great example of what your asking is in Luke 2:25-35 he came by the spirit to the temple and spoke by inspired utterance inspired by God, look how beautiful and positive what he says is. In 1 Samuel 19: 20-24 thats what they were seeing people speaking by inspiration from the spirit.
And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.
1 Samuel 18:10
And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played with his hand, as at other times: and there was a javelin in Saul's hand.
1 Samuel 16:14
But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.
1 Samuel 16:15
And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee.
1 Samuel 19:9
And the evil spirit from the LORD was upon Saul, as he sat in his house with his javelin in his hand: and David played with his hand.
1 Samuel 19:20
And Saul sent messengers to take David: and when they saw the company of the prophets prophesying, and Samuel standing as appointed over them, the Spirit of God was upon the messengers of Saul, and they also prophesied.
1 Samuel 11:6
And the Spirit of God came upon Saul when he heard those tidings, and his ANGER was kindled greatly.
1 Samuel 28:7
Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor.
Acts 19:15
And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?
>>Most of Sauls problems were of pride. The people wanted a King and God gave them what they wanted; which was for someone else to be a go-between so they didn't have to speak to God.
Rebellion is AS the sin of witchcraft. Saul sought out witches.
The day he "died" he prohibited the customary sacrifice to God for victory in Battle; and told the soldiers He would be their sacrifice! Saul and his 2 sons all died.
The Book of Psalms is a collection of lyrical poems written by a number of authors. The Book was originally entitled, "Tehillim" which, in Hebrew, means 'Praise Songs'. The English title, 'Psalms' originated from the Greek title, 'Psalmoi' & also meant 'Songs of Praise'.
The Psalms became the hymnal of God's people, with its words often set to music, but not always. The Psalms expressed the authors' emotion to God or about Him, and different Psalms were written to communicate the author's feeling & emotions about the situation they might have been experiencing. That's why the Psalms are so treasured through the ages as they often reflect what the person who is reading them might also be going through & also to encourage him to still bless the Lord in spite of the situation.
But to your question: most of the Psalms were written by King David (73 Psalms we know of, maybe more). Asaph wrote 12; Korah 10; Moses 1; King Solomon 2; Ethan & Heman 2 each; the remaining Psalms have not been given their author's names.
If you can, you can read the narrative in the O.T. books that give background to the writing of a particular Psalm. If you have a Study Bible, often a reference will be given in the margin or the notes at the bottom. Otherwise, the internet might also give you help. But to start you off: Read 1 Samuel 19:10.11 & then read Psalm 59; 1 Samuel 21:10-15 with Psalm 56; 1 Samuel 21:10 to 22:2 with Psalm 34; 1 Samuel 22:9 with Psalm 52. This helps to understand the Psalms a little better.
here I see a man who had a pure heart in David. though he knew Saul was after his life he still served him.He wouldn't hurt him,he wouldn't dishonor him. when we choose not to have offense in our hearts God bails us out.He escaped the flying spear. Michal who was married to him so she can be a snare to him became his shield and defense. when we choose to love and honor Gods becomes our resque.
1 Sam. 19: 20- means God ALLOWED satan to put an evil spirit in Saul. God is in control of - everything. God gave Saul plenty of chances to follow God. At some point in our lives He will leave off 'striveing' with us, if we refuse to turn to Him.
Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, I create darkness: I make peace, I create evil: I the LORD do all these things."
I do not believe there are two kinds of evil. This verse tells us the Lord is responsible for "all" these things.
Evil people are wicked, they cause destruction and they will end in destruction. Amen.
Study the word 'evil' in your bible. You will see two different kinds of evil. One is destructiveness and one is wickedness. Obviously God is not responsible for wickedness.
I believe why it says an evil spirit from God is not because God has an evil spirit but he just allowed the evil spirit to enter into Saul because his heart was not righteous and he had a heart of jealousy against David and jealousy is one of the biggest sins I believe because it can lead you to kill. God gives you a choice and Saul choose to go away from God.
Saul was in a no win situation he even prophesied as before, when he was anointed king. When GOD is against U there 's nothing you can do. Yes, HE does forgive and abundantly pardons but the sentence still must be carried out.
I questioned this verse in Sunday School, and I 'm thinking God was trsting Saul because we were given a choice, and he gave him his. The devil won and God all ready knew what was going to happen.
God created man with freedom to decision making and choices. When he send Evil, to you your heart being in the right space you will not proceed with it. Saul could have made a good choice as well. God loved David and He is so mighty.
I thought I would start in the Old Testament; realizing of course that the Holy Spirit didn't remain with a man as it does in the New Testament era. There are; nonetheless principles here that need to be addressed. Perhaps an appropriate start is with the story of Saul and the prophets. 1 Samuel 10:10 states "the Spirit of God came upon him, and he prophesied among them." A similar event happened in 1 Samuel 19:24. When we see the last state of Saul; who the night before his death consulted with a witch to seek his fate ( 1 Samuel 28) and other things that happened once he started pursuing David; we see a man who probably died lost.
The principle here is that God COULD allow certain true manifestations in the Spirit to occur with someone (as we see with Judas Iscariot going out and healing/casting out demons along with the other 11 Disciples in Luke 9:1-2.) The manifestation of the Spirit therefore doesn't guarantee FRUIT of the Spirit which is in all those who have true faith (again as illustrated with the Parable of the Sower and the seed in Matthew 13; and as we see listed in Galatians 5:22-23. We see quite the opposite in Saul; we see jealousy; strife; and a murderous intent; and presence of a tormenting spirit or demon.
Suffering for His name's sake and prioritizing the Lord over everyone and everything else was a challenge the Lord used on many would be disciples such as in Luke 9:57-62 with three men in a row who apparently walked away after being challenged.
Jesus chose His 12 Apostles as Disciples carefully; the 11 who truly believed along with the 12th in the Book of Acts chosen would rule and reign with Christ someday ( Matthew 19:28). This would cost them their lives; however as martyrs except for John. A crown is promised for martyrs ( Rev. 2:10). Others are for pastors; those patiently waiting for His coming; evangelists; and apparently for self control. Many variations exist; let the reader study all passages
The Bible gives us examples to help direct us, I believe. 1Samuel 18:10,11, 1 Samuel 19:7,9,10, 1Samuel 27:1,2, if someone is physically harming you, dangerous it's wisdom to get away. David forgave, but had to wisely stay away from Saul. Please read all of 1Samuel to know the more complete story.
Judges 16:4-21, Samson keep forgiving it appears & forgetting. Didn't seem wise. Delilah kept betraying Samson.
Many more stories of fleeing evil, Matthew 10:23, Mark 13:14, 1Timothy 6:3-12, all those & these, flee, 1Corinthian 6:18,
But don't fear, James 4:7,
Vengeance is GOD's
Romans 12:17-21,
Hopefully these are helpful to your situation
1 Samuel 16:14, 1 Samuel 19:20,
There are more references. Here are some more study references. Hope this helps.
appears to be different in the manifestation unto many people at the same time with many events occurring.
Also people being able to transfer the HOLY Spirit to another seems to appear after CHRIST was resurrected from death & the grave. Acts 1, Acts 9:17,31, Acts 10:44, Acts 11:15,16, Acts 13:52, Acts 19:1-11,
Ephesians 5:9, Galatians 3:14, Romans 8:1,
Please read the WORD of GOD,
2 Samuel 3:12-16, 2 Samuel 6:15-23,
* 1 Samuel 6:23,
Note : 2 Samuel 21, vrs 8 "she brought up" didn't say bore, begot, or birthed. 1 Samuel 18:19, looks like she "brought up" her sister Merab's sons.
Hopefully these are helpful.
Now the fact that Rachel stole her father's teraphim is interesting. Either she wanted to rid them from his house as worthless idols or maybe fearing that they might have some impact on alerting Laban as to where Jacob & his family had fled to, she took them to prevent that happening. Or yet, she may have wanted to take something to remember her father by (no photos in those days) or even to take something of value ( Genesis 31:14,15). By her hiding them (obviously they were very small objects) under the camel's accoutrements, indicates that she held little value to them as objects of worship, or else she wouldn't be sitting on them. But one could be justifiably concerned that Rachel might have given those teraphim some undeserved regard.
I felt lead to discuss this deeper with you. In context David was fleeing for his life from Saul : 1 Samuel 19:1,9,10,11,15, ( like 5 attempts? ),
1 Samuel 19:18, Saul then "sent messengers to take David" 1 Samuel 19:20,21, they prophesied
then Saul went himself, 1 Samuel 19:22 , 1 Samuel 19:24 it appears to me GOD supernaturally stopped Saul.
Interestingly Saul prophesied the 1st time after Samuel had anointed him king possibly 5 miles away from Ramah. 1 Samuel 10,
Romans 11:29 in NIV "irrevocable" replaces ' repentance '
Hopefully this informative in your study.
Is Saul also among the prophets?
does it mean something special?
1 Samuel 24:4,5,6 , 1 Samuel 24:10,
Saul also ripped Samuel's garment 1 Samuel 15:27 however 1 Samuel 15:28-29. Even after remorseful repentance 1 Samuel 15:29,30,35
Do think the significance of the clothing was a factor? 1 Samuel 2:19, His mother's sacrifice 1 Samuel 1:28
Saul pursued David to kill him: 1 Samuel 19:1,10,11,15,
& Saul ordered the prophets of GOD killed, possibly unarmed, their families, livestock & nursing babies included.; 1 Samuel 22:17,18,19 Same Saul that left the enemy King & livestock alive in disobedience to GOD's orders. 1 Samuel 15:1,2,3,8,9,
Psalms 105:15
David's mercy 2 Samuel 9:3-7,
David's sin & judgement: 2 Samuel 12:7,9,11,12,14,18, 2 Samuel 13:1,6,7,8,12,13,14,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,28,29,30,31,32, after years 2 Samuel 14:25,30,31,32, 2 Samuel 15:6,10,12,13,14,16,23,30,31, 2 Samuel 16:3,5,6,7,8,11,13,22, 2 Samuel 17:21,23,29, 2 Samuel 18:5,7,9,10,12,14,15,17,20,27,32,33, 2 Samuel 19:1-4, "the sword did not depart from his house" etc. There were more scriptures about his consequences _.
Queen Vashti, consequence Ester 1:19, Ester 2:4
Saul then 1 Samuel 28:3,7,18,19
David has Psalms of remorseful repentance, gives glory to GOD ALMIGHTY, shows mercy & humility at times. With Saul he shows remorse but didn't read much of repentance, etc.
However the Bible says: 1 Colossians 1:20,
Job 12:16
Hopefully these are helpful in your study.
1 Samuel 28 &
1 Samuel 16:23
And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.
1 Samuel 18:10
And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played with his hand, as at other times: and there was a javelin in Saul's hand.
1 Samuel 16:14
But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.
1 Samuel 16:15
And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee.
1 Samuel 19:9
And the evil spirit from the LORD was upon Saul, as he sat in his house with his javelin in his hand: and David played with his hand.
1 Samuel 19:20
And Saul sent messengers to take David: and when they saw the company of the prophets prophesying, and Samuel standing as appointed over them, the Spirit of God was upon the messengers of Saul, and they also prophesied.
1 Samuel 11:6
And the Spirit of God came upon Saul when he heard those tidings, and his ANGER was kindled greatly.
1 Samuel 28:7
Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor.
Acts 19:15
And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?
>>Most of Sauls problems were of pride. The people wanted a King and God gave them what they wanted; which was for someone else to be a go-between so they didn't have to speak to God.
Rebellion is AS the sin of witchcraft. Saul sought out witches.
The day he "died" he prohibited the customary sacrifice to God for victory in Battle; and told the soldiers He would be their sacrifice! Saul and his 2 sons all died.
The Psalms became the hymnal of God's people, with its words often set to music, but not always. The Psalms expressed the authors' emotion to God or about Him, and different Psalms were written to communicate the author's feeling & emotions about the situation they might have been experiencing. That's why the Psalms are so treasured through the ages as they often reflect what the person who is reading them might also be going through & also to encourage him to still bless the Lord in spite of the situation.
But to your question: most of the Psalms were written by King David (73 Psalms we know of, maybe more). Asaph wrote 12; Korah 10; Moses 1; King Solomon 2; Ethan & Heman 2 each; the remaining Psalms have not been given their author's names.
If you can, you can read the narrative in the O.T. books that give background to the writing of a particular Psalm. If you have a Study Bible, often a reference will be given in the margin or the notes at the bottom. Otherwise, the internet might also give you help. But to start you off: Read 1 Samuel 19:10.11 & then read Psalm 59; 1 Samuel 21:10-15 with Psalm 56; 1 Samuel 21:10 to 22:2 with Psalm 34; 1 Samuel 22:9 with Psalm 52. This helps to understand the Psalms a little better.
I do not believe there are two kinds of evil. This verse tells us the Lord is responsible for "all" these things.
Evil people are wicked, they cause destruction and they will end in destruction. Amen.