When Jesus returns, He will "make all things new, even us ho believe on Him. And, at my age of almost 68, my time is getting shorter and shorter each month that passes. I pray that God will grow my faith to be steady under trials and tribulations, along with the slow and steady changes my body makes as it leans towards my death. But then, hallelujah, comes life eternal! So praise be to our great God and King. He has done great things for us, more than we could ever imagine.
Luke 18:34 - And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.
The word "hid" shows a condition or state in the Greek text. They were constantly in this situation of not understanding what Jesus meant as he said several times now that he must go into Jerusalem and die. But they did not understand it.
Luke 18:35 - And it came to pass, that as he was come nigh unto Jericho, a certain blind man sat by the way side begging:
So, He was on the outside of Jericho, and there was a certain blind man sitting. Please notice the literal translation, by the side of road begging. That means this is his normal position every day. And he is begging. Now you can't get worse than that. You are blind and you are sitting alongside of the road, and you are begging every day. That is your life.
Luke 18:43 - And immediately he received his sight, and followed him, glorifying God: and all the people, when they saw it, gave praise unto God.
And immediately he received his sight and followed him. And again, this is an Imperfect Tense meaning he was continually following Jesus, glorifying God: and all the people, when they saw it, gave praise unto God.
Luke 19:13 - And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
He delivered them ten pounds, or literally the Greek word is MNA and is pronounced "Muh-Nah." A MNA is 100 days wages, equivalent to100 denarius. So, he gives unto them 10 MNA and said unto them, Occupy, or do business till I come.
Luke 18:13 - And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
And the publican, notice the publican standing afar off, he doesn't even feel worthy to come close, and he would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but was beating his breast.
And this is an Imperfect Tense verb, meaning he was continually beating upon his breast or his chest saying, God be merciful to me, notice the literal translation, God be merciful to me the sinner, not a sinner, the sinner.
So here you have one saying look how good I am compared to all these sinners. And then you have got a sinner saying I'm not even worthy to look up to heaven, I'm not even worthy to come in the temple, and he was continually beating his chest in lamentation and mourning over his condition and the only thing he could ask for was for mercy, God be merciful to me the sinner.
Luke 18:17 - Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.
Truly I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall never, (double negative), enter in.
He's not saying be childish. Again, childlike, totally dependent on the Father of spirits in heaven who gave us our life and has brought us into the family of God.
Luke 18:19 - And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? None is good, save one, that is, God.
And Jesus said unto him, first of all before I answer your question, "Why did you call me AGATHOS?" Why did you call me good? There is none that is good, except one, and that is, God. You just called me God. Why did you call me God?
Luke 18:3 - And there was a widow in that city; and she came unto him, saying, Avenge me of mine adversary.
She is asking the court to come to her aid. The word adversary is a legal term which means the opponent in a court of law.
Luke 18:5 - Yet because this widow troubleth me, I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me.
The word weary in Greek means to give somebody a black eye. He's not worried about the woman attacking him. In fact, the word is a very special word.
In our vocabulary in English, we probably say the jab, the boxer that jabs, continuously throwing the jab, wearing his opponent down so that he can throw the knockout punch.
And he says she is continually coming. She is not going to give up. And she had three things going against her. Number one, she was a woman, and a woman did not have any leverage in court whatsoever.
Secondly, she was a widow. She had no husband to represent her in court. And thirdly she was poor, so she didn't have enough to give a bribe. So, she just came and continued to come and wearied the judge.
Luke 17:20 - And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
This Greek word is used in two different senses. One is observation as an astronomer would observe the stars and the planets in outer space. Secondly, it is a medical term. If someone has been admitted into the hospital for observation, and that is what this word means. It means we are going to watch you, watch your vital signs, and take tests. So, He says the Kingdom of God does not come with observation: Again the outward appearance.
Luke 17:34 - I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed;
The word "men" is not in any manuscripts. It is just two people, because there are people that use this for justification for homosexuality. In that night there shall be two men (two people) in one bed; one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
Luke 18:1 - And he spake a parable unto them to this end, that men ought always to pray, and not to faint;
The premise of this parable is in Verse 1, that men ought always to pray and not to faint. The word "ought" is the word necessary. It comes from the word DEO that means to bind. It is necessary for men always to pray and to not faint.
The word faint in the Greek text means to give in, to give up, or to give in to your circumstances. And as the Lord is explaining the difficulties that God's people will experience, He is now focusing on the main activity that the believer has with his or her Lord, and that is prayer, that when difficulties happen through circumstances, it's necessary for the believer to always pray and never to give in, never to give up.
Luke 17:2 - It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and notice this literal translation: and that he had been cast into the sea, "had been." In other words, before he even offended anybody, it would have been better had he been cast into the sea before he even got there to offend people.
Where it says "these little ones," He is not talking about children here. He is talking about people who just recently turned to Christ as Messiah.
Luke 17:10 - So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.
He says we are unprofitable servants. The Greek word for unprofitable is useless. Useless! At our best, in our human we are useless. But when God gives us the faith, He does great things. But it's not to our credit. It is what God does through us, and if God works through us all day and all night, that is all to His credit. If we did it, we'd just be unprofitable servants only doing the minimum.
Luke 17:19 - And he said unto him, Arise, go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole.
Interesting, the word whole is the word SOUDZO for salvation. But isn't that interesting that Jesus said go and be cleansed and they left. Only one of them got saved. The one that turned, realized the working of God in his life, and came back and fell at Jesus' feet and gave thanks.
He says your faith has saved you. So not only are you cleansed from your leprosy, but you are saved. That should also give us a warning. Many seek the Lord for healing because they only want for themselves. If God should ever grant that request, and with some people, that is all they do is look for the physical things in life to be fixed, never falling at Jesus' feet and giving Him thanks and giving Him glory.
Thank you, there is a lot in the first books of Genesis looking at the first 3 chapters. We look for the understanding and what does it mean that Adam was not deceived but it was Eve who was deceived by the serpent, 1 Timothy 2:14 and 2 Corinthians 11:3. We cannot begin to comprehend the plan of God. To Him, things that are not, are already done, the gifts and grace He gives are predestined to all who will accept the gifts He offered before the world was.
We live in a time when our life is so short we sometimes struggle to even imagine what eternity will be like. But our faith and our hope are in Jesus by Him we are brothers and sisters and the children of God and one day we will be with Him on a new earth that our imaginations cannot even picture.
(A) Adam and Eve did not know good and evil until they disobeyed and ate from the tree, that was when their eyes were opened. They became aware of physical lust caused by their disobedience/sin, which was what they were trying to cover, that is why I said the sin was their nakedness. Being naked was innocent before, in some parts of the world today being naked is innocent. Adam and Eve were not just trying to cover their bodies they were hiding from God who they disobeyed, like a kid hiding in the closet because they disobeyed their parents.
(B) Being naked does have a deeper meaning that has nothing to do with being nude. God made coats of skins to cover them, was this to cover their bodies, or to show His grace? I agree it foreshadowed Christ and the garment of salvation that covers our sins that we do not walk naked. Even though God cast them out of the garden to keep them away from the Tree of Life they were still in the presence of God.
There was only one command in Scripture I have read, and God did not form him out of the dust of the ground with a sinful nature but as the angels God gave him free will. If the first Adam was created with a sinful nature could God have said this; Gen 1:31.
As you say Adam was flesh, the meaning I feel you mean a sinful nature, contrary to the Spirit, living sinfully, walking in the world, this was the result of Adam's disobedience not from his sinless nature that God formed him.
My understanding, in God's plan the first Adam is the beginning of the salvation of man that has been hidden from Satan, even the death of the last Adam our Savior. If he had known the outcome he would have tried to stop it. The first Adam and the last Adam both were spotless one sinned and brought death our Savior did not and brought life. I will just say this if Jesus was not vulnerable to sin, how could He be tempted? Jesus was from heaven His Father is God.
Thank you, I try to read everything I can find about God and doing what is expected of me, but there is so many different sites that tell you different things. Just wanting to understand all that I read.
I agree with you that Adam and Eve being naked before they sinned has deeper meaning than just the shame we may feel with physical nakedness.
I think that them being naked means:
1) They were not clothed with Christ prior to their sinning
2) Their nakedness shows that they were vulnerable to temptation and to sin because they did not have the wherewithal to prevail against temptation as Jesus did.
Jesus was the divine Son was made flesh ( John 1:14) who , Adam was a son of God but strictly human. The first Adam in Eden was without the sword of the Word of God, the second Adam, Jesus, WAS the Word of God. The first Adam did not know waht evil was but the second Adam, Jesus, knew all about Satab's rebellion and sin and the evil that ensued. The first Adam, in Eden, was able to sin; the second Adam, Jesus was unable to sin because His divine nature and person can never sin. These differences show us that man alone in his faculties, cannot resist temptation and sin. He will fall as Adam did. This is why we need a divine Savior who could not sin and who possessed everything necessary to defeat Satan and evil. In the Garden, satan defeated Adam, but in the Garden of Gethsemane Satan was defeated because Jesus chose the Father's will and not His own human will.
In the Eden, with all it possessed to keep Adam completely satisfied, the temptation to disobey prevailed because Adam wanted more than what God had provided and ordained, he preferred to "become like God" rather than to prefer God alone. In the wilderness temptation, Jesus was hungry in a place of desolation but He defeated Satan and his temptations because He preferred to become human in order to save mankind, not thinking that equality with God was something to be grasped from God, but humbled himself in becoming human for the purposes of the God. At the cross, Jesus triumphed over Satan, despoiling him and his power to deceive the whole world anymore.
Yes, there is much in this world against us and God that will only increase in intensity in the future. Daniel was told in Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. Much of this knowledge along with the imagination of man is not being used for good.
We can see the earth is around 6000 years old and look at the last 50 years how knowledge has increased, and people can go to and fro all over the world in just a short time, things are going faster every day. We must be strong in our faith and ready to face "the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world".
Adam was made a living soul; naked and no knowledge of Good and Evil. Adam was to multiply man on earth.
The last Adam (Christ) was a life giving spirit who came so that those men can have a new birth.
He was clothed with his own righteousness and was referenced in Genesis 3:22, "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become AS ONE OF US, to know good and evil"
He was also a life giving spirit.
The first man Adam was to multiply man on earth, he was never meant or able to give life.
Look at their origin in comparison with the emphasis on the last Adam.
1 Corinthians 15:47, The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the LORD FROM HEAVEN.
(To be born Again means (Born from above)
So yes we certainly disagree "that the first Adam and the last Adam came into this world without a sinful nature or vulnerable to sin.
I am enjoying this conversation between you and S. Spencer. It gets me thinking about this subject more deeply.
I agree that the first Adam was sinless in Eden. God made him "very good" so nothing sinful was in Adam. He and Eve did not know what evil was or what sin was until they we tempted to do it. When we speak of them as being "perfect: we can take that to mean that they were exactly how God intended them to be. Even so, they were not "perfect" in the way those in Christ will be made perfect in the life to come when all in Christ will be glorified. Adam did not have this glorification in the Garden. He, too, needed to be placed in Christ, redeemed, die, and be resurrected like all of us. Then he and all of us will be unable to sin ever again.
And I agree that God did ordain all that happened in Eden for His glory and eternal purpose of redeeming by His grace and mercy a people for Himself who will live with Him forever in holiness as the elect angels do. In the end, we will know the glory of how God kept the elect angels pure and sinless and the glory of how He made elect sinful humans regenerated and forgiven, giving them eternal life and glorifying them in the life to come as His redeemed people. We will rejoice with the angels in the glory of both of these great purposes willed from before creation. We will also know the glory of his justice and judgment on the wicked angels and non-elect, the vessels of his wrath, as Rom. 9 speaks of this. God's aim in all things is to manifest the unfathomable glory of all He is, and so, in allowing Satan into the Garden to tempt Eve into sin and allowing Eve to convince Adam to sin also, God's eternal plan was able to be enacted in history and actuality.
The eternal counsels of God are beyond us. His ways are higher than ours and we are not able to completely find them out. But we can know that all He allows, ordains, wills, and purposes is eternally good, righteous and just. He is absolutely perfect
First let's deal with the second half of your reply listed in sections A and B below.
You stated;
A) the eating of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil opened their consciences, and the shame of their disobedience was their nakedness, their sin was exposed.
My reply; how could it be that the shame of "their disobedience" was their nakedness if they were naked before they disobeyed? Genesis 2:25.
So if we continue with that logic, If nakedness means their sin was exposed, then sin was in them to do BEFORE they ate of the fruit.
B) and with the knowledge of good and evil, the thoughts that come from being nude.
My reply; I believe that being naked has a much broader meaning than being nude as we mentioned previously.
When they sewed fig leaves on they were still naked in God's eyes.
Here's my thoughts on the rest of your reply.
My Emphasis is on them being naked before they were disobedient and what that meant.
Were they complete or perfect as Christ was in the flesh?
For one there was a sacrifice made for them that foreshadowed Christ who was ordained as the Lamb of God before the foundation of the world.
Also,
We have no scripture on whether if God only gave Adam that one command or not.
I believe this is recorded to put emphasis on the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, Adam's nakedness, and the tree of life and the results following the transgression.
However, even if there were only one command he gave Adam, Good and Evil still existed and that is something Adam had no knowledge of!
He responded in a way that flesh does in its rebellious nature.
Adam was flesh, we inherited that.
Adam was naked, we inherited that.
Adam done what a uncovered man does, 'SIN" we inherited that.
"That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory."
As apostles of Christ having suffered much St Paul refers to the proof of his glory, in this statement, "For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming? Glory which he meant has a body to speak of, and if all his sufferings produced one it was worth his while, "For ye are our glory and joy"(vv.19-20). This body is the basis for the everlasting covenant and the gospel of reconciliation is word-based and St Paul consoles himself by saying that this glory shall be revealed at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. He also refers in another place, "When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory."(Col.3:4)
Jesus himself spoke of it, "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." and it is a public event, " the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."(Matt.24:14, 30). No amount of human speech shall express this glory since it is what the substance of preaching the gospel from the beginning till now would mean and it is Person specific. This is what the writer to Hebrews state at the outset: "Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;/Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high." For this purpose the Spirit records the man was created "in our image and after our likeness." The second part refers to the similitude of "The word become flesh'While God is the Father of light his Son Jesus Christ is the true Light. This has a body, glorious one which is after a likeness
By one man sin entered into the world,and death by sin;and death passed upon all men,for that all have sinned(a DEEP abyss was formed in the earth,the earth was cursed because of man):Until the Law sin was in the world:but sin is not imputed when there is no law.Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses,even over them that had not sinned-Ro.5:12-14.(Then why they died?Because they were born of the sin.It was necessary to be born again,i.e.be made again in the image of GOD and in His likeness,but the Word of GOD(GOD is the life)was not preached,the Lord GOD had expelled MAN forth from the garden of Eden, He drove out the man and placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims,and a flaming Sword which turned every way,to keep the way of the tree of life,and only darkness there was upon the face of the deep(upon earth)
In fact,it was necessary to restore or to restitution of all things as they were in the garden of GOD,then GOD developed a plan of six Days of work and one to rest as He revealed to Moses around 2500 years after Adam-Genesis.So GOD planned to make MAN in the sixth Day.He said(to JESUS):Let us make man in our image,after our likeness:Gen.1:26.For this cause GOD sent JESUS,the Greater Light,in the fourth Day,4000 years after Adam.JESUS said: John 5:17-My Father worketh hitherto,and I work.
Lk.20:34-36
34JESUS said:The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world(the next,3rd heavenly place),and the resurrection from the dead,neither marry,nor are given in marriage:36Neither can they die any more:for they are equal unto the angels;and are the children of GOD,being the children of the resurrection.
Phil.3:20-21:20 For our conversation is in heaven;from whence also we look for the Saviour,the Lord Jesus Christ:21Who shall change our vile body,that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body, according to the working whereby He is able even to subdue all things unto Himself
22 Hath the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the Lord, he hath also rejected thee from being king.
Yes, "sin came into the world through one man (the MAN of sin, son of perdition- John 17:12 combined with 2Thessalonians 2:3&8-9) and death through sin"- Romans 5:12.
Well you were perfectly clear there Ronald and thank you . Adam and Eve lusted after the fruit and the knowledge that it would bring them . This same desperate lust can be seen all through the world . The desperation to explain away all the wonders of God's creation , the desperation to emulate God's power , the desperation to improve on and outdo God's awesome work . Science and technology and the adoration of it , this is satan , satan opposes God and what in our time , does more to oppose and dismiss and ridicule the very idea of God , more than science and technology and the proponents of it ? This is the anti- Christ . There are many others , working away at us , trying to undermine us , but the biggy and the one that is sooo pervasive and seducing of all people no matter what their creed is , is science and technology . We all love it don't we ? Scince has increased our ability to communicate our mostly evil thoughts and ideas ,from one end of earth to another in a second . Remember the tower of Babel ? What is God's verdict of it ? Genesis Ch 11 verse 6 . Thanks again Ronald , love in the Lord .
All was foreordained in the plan of God before the world was, God, knowing the end from the beginning. In Scripture when God put Adam in the garden, He planted for Adam to take care of, God only gave Adam one command, Genesis 2:16, do not eat from that one tree. This was before God made Eve because God said it was not good that man should be alone Genesis 2:18.
I know we disagree, but the first Adam and the last Adam came into this world without a sinful nature, one was disobedient one was obedient Romans 5:19.
Adam had free will, but the sinful nature did not enter him until Adam chose to be disobedient and ate from that tree that God commanded Adam to not eat from. Romans 5:12 "sin came into the world through one man and death through sin".
Yes, the eating of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil opened their consciences, and the shame of their disobedience was their nakedness, their sin was exposed, and with the knowledge of good and evil, the thoughts that come from being nude.
Jesus's blood covers our sins and makes our garments white as snow, sorry I was not clear.
you can go to the bar at the top and pick Either KJV Standard or the 1611 KJV. click the tab and it will take you to the bible section. When there you can wither enter the chapter and verse in the search box or click the tab on the right and use arrow to get to Book, Chapter, verse that you wish to read. Let us know if that works for you.
You stated "The shame they now felt was due to the sinful nature that entered them and now they no longer perfectly perceived things"
I agree that "The shame they now felt was due to the sinful nature", but I don't agree that nature entered them when they bit of the fruit. I believe it was already in them to disobey.
This is why Christ was foreordained as of a lamb without blemish and without spot before the foundation of the world, 1 Peter 1:19-20.
Also I believe the shame they experienced was CAUSED by their "Knowledge" of Good and Evil. They were shame because they "NOW" knew they were naked.
For instance, what if they would have disobeyed God in any other way?
Would they have known they were naked without the knowledge of Good and Evil and responded with shame and try to cover themselves?
Is scripture conclusive that this was their first act of disobedience?
However, even if it were their first act of disobedience, it still applies.
They were uncovered/ vulnerable, absent from the blood of the Lamb which is to atone for sin.
Notice where the emphasis is placed after the act.
Genesis 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were NAKED..
Verses 9-10, And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou;
And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was NAKED; and I hid myself.
11.) And he said, Who told thee that thou wast NAKED?..
21) Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins and clothed them.
22) And the LORD God said, BEHOLD, THE MAN IS BECOME AS ONE OF US, TO KNOW GOOD AND EVIL: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever:
BTW, you stated, "our sins covered and cleansed by the blood of Jesus that makes it spotless and white as long as we continue in faith and overcome. I'm not sure if you're saying that Christ clothing us covers our conscience or sin?
The curtains broadly divided heaven and the earth as two worlds framed by the word of God. Faith is one (Ep.4:4-5) And it couples the Gospel of God and of Christ. The everlasting covenant under seven days confer blessing on the man whose one hope of calling was invested in Jesus Christ the Word become flesh. Each day in Ge.1 reveals a part of his blessing which is from the fullness of Christ. Seven is the command number of perfect. Seven times seven makes it forty nine, 7x7=49. This refers to the the unto this part of the Son. ("Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee./Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession"-Ps.2:7-8) By the same token "in that day" refers to the Day of Regeneration where the 24 elders whose hope of calling is same as that of man. They praise the slain Lamb as thus, "And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.". Blessing conferred on man is not merely entering into the rest of God but also the rest in which God is in all. "And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all."(1 Co.15:28). This shall explain with the numbers of curtains,"eleven curtains shalt thou make./The length of one curtain shall be thirty cubits, and the breadth of one curtain four cubits: and the eleven curtains shall be all of one measure./And thou shalt couple five curtains by themselves, and six curtains by themselves, and shalt double the sixth curtain in the forefront of the tabernacle."(26:7-9)
7x7+1= 50
This is also declared as the jubilee year. "And ye shall hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof."(Le.25:10-11)
When Jesus returns, He will "make all things new, even us ho believe on Him. And, at my age of almost 68, my time is getting shorter and shorter each month that passes. I pray that God will grow my faith to be steady under trials and tribulations, along with the slow and steady changes my body makes as it leans towards my death. But then, hallelujah, comes life eternal! So praise be to our great God and King. He has done great things for us, more than we could ever imagine.
I live in the Pacific NW and so you are hours ahead of me.
So, have a good night sleep and we can talk again when you are available.
Luke 18:34 - And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.
The word "hid" shows a condition or state in the Greek text. They were constantly in this situation of not understanding what Jesus meant as he said several times now that he must go into Jerusalem and die. But they did not understand it.
Luke 18:35 - And it came to pass, that as he was come nigh unto Jericho, a certain blind man sat by the way side begging:
So, He was on the outside of Jericho, and there was a certain blind man sitting. Please notice the literal translation, by the side of road begging. That means this is his normal position every day. And he is begging. Now you can't get worse than that. You are blind and you are sitting alongside of the road, and you are begging every day. That is your life.
Luke 18:43 - And immediately he received his sight, and followed him, glorifying God: and all the people, when they saw it, gave praise unto God.
And immediately he received his sight and followed him. And again, this is an Imperfect Tense meaning he was continually following Jesus, glorifying God: and all the people, when they saw it, gave praise unto God.
Luke 19:13 - And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
He delivered them ten pounds, or literally the Greek word is MNA and is pronounced "Muh-Nah." A MNA is 100 days wages, equivalent to100 denarius. So, he gives unto them 10 MNA and said unto them, Occupy, or do business till I come.
Luke 18:13 - And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
And the publican, notice the publican standing afar off, he doesn't even feel worthy to come close, and he would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but was beating his breast.
And this is an Imperfect Tense verb, meaning he was continually beating upon his breast or his chest saying, God be merciful to me, notice the literal translation, God be merciful to me the sinner, not a sinner, the sinner.
So here you have one saying look how good I am compared to all these sinners. And then you have got a sinner saying I'm not even worthy to look up to heaven, I'm not even worthy to come in the temple, and he was continually beating his chest in lamentation and mourning over his condition and the only thing he could ask for was for mercy, God be merciful to me the sinner.
Luke 18:17 - Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.
Truly I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall never, (double negative), enter in.
He's not saying be childish. Again, childlike, totally dependent on the Father of spirits in heaven who gave us our life and has brought us into the family of God.
Luke 18:19 - And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? None is good, save one, that is, God.
And Jesus said unto him, first of all before I answer your question, "Why did you call me AGATHOS?" Why did you call me good? There is none that is good, except one, and that is, God. You just called me God. Why did you call me God?
Luke 18:3 - And there was a widow in that city; and she came unto him, saying, Avenge me of mine adversary.
She is asking the court to come to her aid. The word adversary is a legal term which means the opponent in a court of law.
Luke 18:5 - Yet because this widow troubleth me, I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me.
The word weary in Greek means to give somebody a black eye. He's not worried about the woman attacking him. In fact, the word is a very special word.
In our vocabulary in English, we probably say the jab, the boxer that jabs, continuously throwing the jab, wearing his opponent down so that he can throw the knockout punch.
And he says she is continually coming. She is not going to give up. And she had three things going against her. Number one, she was a woman, and a woman did not have any leverage in court whatsoever.
Secondly, she was a widow. She had no husband to represent her in court. And thirdly she was poor, so she didn't have enough to give a bribe. So, she just came and continued to come and wearied the judge.
Luke 17:20 - And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
This Greek word is used in two different senses. One is observation as an astronomer would observe the stars and the planets in outer space. Secondly, it is a medical term. If someone has been admitted into the hospital for observation, and that is what this word means. It means we are going to watch you, watch your vital signs, and take tests. So, He says the Kingdom of God does not come with observation: Again the outward appearance.
Luke 17:34 - I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed;
The word "men" is not in any manuscripts. It is just two people, because there are people that use this for justification for homosexuality. In that night there shall be two men (two people) in one bed; one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
Luke 18:1 - And he spake a parable unto them to this end, that men ought always to pray, and not to faint;
The premise of this parable is in Verse 1, that men ought always to pray and not to faint. The word "ought" is the word necessary. It comes from the word DEO that means to bind. It is necessary for men always to pray and to not faint.
The word faint in the Greek text means to give in, to give up, or to give in to your circumstances. And as the Lord is explaining the difficulties that God's people will experience, He is now focusing on the main activity that the believer has with his or her Lord, and that is prayer, that when difficulties happen through circumstances, it's necessary for the believer to always pray and never to give in, never to give up.
Luke 17:2 - It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and notice this literal translation: and that he had been cast into the sea, "had been." In other words, before he even offended anybody, it would have been better had he been cast into the sea before he even got there to offend people.
Where it says "these little ones," He is not talking about children here. He is talking about people who just recently turned to Christ as Messiah.
Luke 17:10 - So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.
He says we are unprofitable servants. The Greek word for unprofitable is useless. Useless! At our best, in our human we are useless. But when God gives us the faith, He does great things. But it's not to our credit. It is what God does through us, and if God works through us all day and all night, that is all to His credit. If we did it, we'd just be unprofitable servants only doing the minimum.
Luke 17:19 - And he said unto him, Arise, go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole.
Interesting, the word whole is the word SOUDZO for salvation. But isn't that interesting that Jesus said go and be cleansed and they left. Only one of them got saved. The one that turned, realized the working of God in his life, and came back and fell at Jesus' feet and gave thanks.
He says your faith has saved you. So not only are you cleansed from your leprosy, but you are saved. That should also give us a warning. Many seek the Lord for healing because they only want for themselves. If God should ever grant that request, and with some people, that is all they do is look for the physical things in life to be fixed, never falling at Jesus' feet and giving Him thanks and giving Him glory.
I'm finishing up on a long work day and getting ready to shut it down for tonight.
I believe I'm 3 hours ahead of some of you.
I try to get in the bed by 8pm every night.
I start my day around 4am.
Thanks and God bless.
Thank you, there is a lot in the first books of Genesis looking at the first 3 chapters. We look for the understanding and what does it mean that Adam was not deceived but it was Eve who was deceived by the serpent, 1 Timothy 2:14 and 2 Corinthians 11:3. We cannot begin to comprehend the plan of God. To Him, things that are not, are already done, the gifts and grace He gives are predestined to all who will accept the gifts He offered before the world was.
We live in a time when our life is so short we sometimes struggle to even imagine what eternity will be like. But our faith and our hope are in Jesus by Him we are brothers and sisters and the children of God and one day we will be with Him on a new earth that our imaginations cannot even picture.
God bless,
RLW
Thank you, brother, in love,
(A) Adam and Eve did not know good and evil until they disobeyed and ate from the tree, that was when their eyes were opened. They became aware of physical lust caused by their disobedience/sin, which was what they were trying to cover, that is why I said the sin was their nakedness. Being naked was innocent before, in some parts of the world today being naked is innocent. Adam and Eve were not just trying to cover their bodies they were hiding from God who they disobeyed, like a kid hiding in the closet because they disobeyed their parents.
(B) Being naked does have a deeper meaning that has nothing to do with being nude. God made coats of skins to cover them, was this to cover their bodies, or to show His grace? I agree it foreshadowed Christ and the garment of salvation that covers our sins that we do not walk naked. Even though God cast them out of the garden to keep them away from the Tree of Life they were still in the presence of God.
There was only one command in Scripture I have read, and God did not form him out of the dust of the ground with a sinful nature but as the angels God gave him free will. If the first Adam was created with a sinful nature could God have said this; Gen 1:31.
As you say Adam was flesh, the meaning I feel you mean a sinful nature, contrary to the Spirit, living sinfully, walking in the world, this was the result of Adam's disobedience not from his sinless nature that God formed him.
My understanding, in God's plan the first Adam is the beginning of the salvation of man that has been hidden from Satan, even the death of the last Adam our Savior. If he had known the outcome he would have tried to stop it. The first Adam and the last Adam both were spotless one sinned and brought death our Savior did not and brought life. I will just say this if Jesus was not vulnerable to sin, how could He be tempted? Jesus was from heaven His Father is God.
God bless,
RLW
Good conversation going on here.
I agree with you that Adam and Eve being naked before they sinned has deeper meaning than just the shame we may feel with physical nakedness.
I think that them being naked means:
1) They were not clothed with Christ prior to their sinning
2) Their nakedness shows that they were vulnerable to temptation and to sin because they did not have the wherewithal to prevail against temptation as Jesus did.
Jesus was the divine Son was made flesh ( John 1:14) who , Adam was a son of God but strictly human. The first Adam in Eden was without the sword of the Word of God, the second Adam, Jesus, WAS the Word of God. The first Adam did not know waht evil was but the second Adam, Jesus, knew all about Satab's rebellion and sin and the evil that ensued. The first Adam, in Eden, was able to sin; the second Adam, Jesus was unable to sin because His divine nature and person can never sin. These differences show us that man alone in his faculties, cannot resist temptation and sin. He will fall as Adam did. This is why we need a divine Savior who could not sin and who possessed everything necessary to defeat Satan and evil. In the Garden, satan defeated Adam, but in the Garden of Gethsemane Satan was defeated because Jesus chose the Father's will and not His own human will.
In the Eden, with all it possessed to keep Adam completely satisfied, the temptation to disobey prevailed because Adam wanted more than what God had provided and ordained, he preferred to "become like God" rather than to prefer God alone. In the wilderness temptation, Jesus was hungry in a place of desolation but He defeated Satan and his temptations because He preferred to become human in order to save mankind, not thinking that equality with God was something to be grasped from God, but humbled himself in becoming human for the purposes of the God. At the cross, Jesus triumphed over Satan, despoiling him and his power to deceive the whole world anymore.
Yes, there is much in this world against us and God that will only increase in intensity in the future. Daniel was told in Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. Much of this knowledge along with the imagination of man is not being used for good.
We can see the earth is around 6000 years old and look at the last 50 years how knowledge has increased, and people can go to and fro all over the world in just a short time, things are going faster every day. We must be strong in our faith and ready to face "the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world".
God bless,
RLW
thank you
Part 2.
Adam was made a living soul; naked and no knowledge of Good and Evil. Adam was to multiply man on earth.
The last Adam (Christ) was a life giving spirit who came so that those men can have a new birth.
He was clothed with his own righteousness and was referenced in Genesis 3:22, "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become AS ONE OF US, to know good and evil"
He was also a life giving spirit.
The first man Adam was to multiply man on earth, he was never meant or able to give life.
Look at their origin in comparison with the emphasis on the last Adam.
1 Corinthians 15:47, The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the LORD FROM HEAVEN.
(To be born Again means (Born from above)
So yes we certainly disagree "that the first Adam and the last Adam came into this world without a sinful nature or vulnerable to sin.
There's only one did and that's Christ.
God bless.
I am enjoying this conversation between you and S. Spencer. It gets me thinking about this subject more deeply.
I agree that the first Adam was sinless in Eden. God made him "very good" so nothing sinful was in Adam. He and Eve did not know what evil was or what sin was until they we tempted to do it. When we speak of them as being "perfect: we can take that to mean that they were exactly how God intended them to be. Even so, they were not "perfect" in the way those in Christ will be made perfect in the life to come when all in Christ will be glorified. Adam did not have this glorification in the Garden. He, too, needed to be placed in Christ, redeemed, die, and be resurrected like all of us. Then he and all of us will be unable to sin ever again.
And I agree that God did ordain all that happened in Eden for His glory and eternal purpose of redeeming by His grace and mercy a people for Himself who will live with Him forever in holiness as the elect angels do. In the end, we will know the glory of how God kept the elect angels pure and sinless and the glory of how He made elect sinful humans regenerated and forgiven, giving them eternal life and glorifying them in the life to come as His redeemed people. We will rejoice with the angels in the glory of both of these great purposes willed from before creation. We will also know the glory of his justice and judgment on the wicked angels and non-elect, the vessels of his wrath, as Rom. 9 speaks of this. God's aim in all things is to manifest the unfathomable glory of all He is, and so, in allowing Satan into the Garden to tempt Eve into sin and allowing Eve to convince Adam to sin also, God's eternal plan was able to be enacted in history and actuality.
The eternal counsels of God are beyond us. His ways are higher than ours and we are not able to completely find them out. But we can know that all He allows, ordains, wills, and purposes is eternally good, righteous and just. He is absolutely perfect
Thanks again for responding.
First let's deal with the second half of your reply listed in sections A and B below.
You stated;
A) the eating of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil opened their consciences, and the shame of their disobedience was their nakedness, their sin was exposed.
My reply; how could it be that the shame of "their disobedience" was their nakedness if they were naked before they disobeyed? Genesis 2:25.
So if we continue with that logic, If nakedness means their sin was exposed, then sin was in them to do BEFORE they ate of the fruit.
B) and with the knowledge of good and evil, the thoughts that come from being nude.
My reply; I believe that being naked has a much broader meaning than being nude as we mentioned previously.
When they sewed fig leaves on they were still naked in God's eyes.
Here's my thoughts on the rest of your reply.
My Emphasis is on them being naked before they were disobedient and what that meant.
Were they complete or perfect as Christ was in the flesh?
For one there was a sacrifice made for them that foreshadowed Christ who was ordained as the Lamb of God before the foundation of the world.
Also,
We have no scripture on whether if God only gave Adam that one command or not.
I believe this is recorded to put emphasis on the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, Adam's nakedness, and the tree of life and the results following the transgression.
However, even if there were only one command he gave Adam, Good and Evil still existed and that is something Adam had no knowledge of!
He responded in a way that flesh does in its rebellious nature.
Adam was flesh, we inherited that.
Adam was naked, we inherited that.
Adam done what a uncovered man does, 'SIN" we inherited that.
See part 2.
"That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory."
As apostles of Christ having suffered much St Paul refers to the proof of his glory, in this statement, "For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming? Glory which he meant has a body to speak of, and if all his sufferings produced one it was worth his while, "For ye are our glory and joy"(vv.19-20). This body is the basis for the everlasting covenant and the gospel of reconciliation is word-based and St Paul consoles himself by saying that this glory shall be revealed at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. He also refers in another place, "When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory."(Col.3:4)
Jesus himself spoke of it, "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." and it is a public event, " the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."(Matt.24:14, 30). No amount of human speech shall express this glory since it is what the substance of preaching the gospel from the beginning till now would mean and it is Person specific. This is what the writer to Hebrews state at the outset: "Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;/Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high." For this purpose the Spirit records the man was created "in our image and after our likeness." The second part refers to the similitude of "The word become flesh'While God is the Father of light his Son Jesus Christ is the true Light. This has a body, glorious one which is after a likeness
In fact,it was necessary to restore or to restitution of all things as they were in the garden of GOD,then GOD developed a plan of six Days of work and one to rest as He revealed to Moses around 2500 years after Adam-Genesis.So GOD planned to make MAN in the sixth Day.He said(to JESUS):Let us make man in our image,after our likeness:Gen.1:26.For this cause GOD sent JESUS,the Greater Light,in the fourth Day,4000 years after Adam.JESUS said: John 5:17-My Father worketh hitherto,and I work.
Lk.20:34-36
34JESUS said:The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world(the next,3rd heavenly place),and the resurrection from the dead,neither marry,nor are given in marriage:36Neither can they die any more:for they are equal unto the angels;and are the children of GOD,being the children of the resurrection.
Phil.3:20-21:20 For our conversation is in heaven;from whence also we look for the Saviour,the Lord Jesus Christ:21Who shall change our vile body,that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body, according to the working whereby He is able even to subdue all things unto Himself
22 Hath the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the Lord, he hath also rejected thee from being king.
Yes, "sin came into the world through one man (the MAN of sin, son of perdition- John 17:12 combined with 2Thessalonians 2:3&8-9) and death through sin"- Romans 5:12.
.
All was foreordained in the plan of God before the world was, God, knowing the end from the beginning. In Scripture when God put Adam in the garden, He planted for Adam to take care of, God only gave Adam one command, Genesis 2:16, do not eat from that one tree. This was before God made Eve because God said it was not good that man should be alone Genesis 2:18.
I know we disagree, but the first Adam and the last Adam came into this world without a sinful nature, one was disobedient one was obedient Romans 5:19.
Adam had free will, but the sinful nature did not enter him until Adam chose to be disobedient and ate from that tree that God commanded Adam to not eat from. Romans 5:12 "sin came into the world through one man and death through sin".
Yes, the eating of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil opened their consciences, and the shame of their disobedience was their nakedness, their sin was exposed, and with the knowledge of good and evil, the thoughts that come from being nude.
Jesus's blood covers our sins and makes our garments white as snow, sorry I was not clear.
God bless,
RLW
you can go to the bar at the top and pick Either KJV Standard or the 1611 KJV. click the tab and it will take you to the bible section. When there you can wither enter the chapter and verse in the search box or click the tab on the right and use arrow to get to Book, Chapter, verse that you wish to read. Let us know if that works for you.
Thanks for responding!
You stated "The shame they now felt was due to the sinful nature that entered them and now they no longer perfectly perceived things"
I agree that "The shame they now felt was due to the sinful nature", but I don't agree that nature entered them when they bit of the fruit. I believe it was already in them to disobey.
This is why Christ was foreordained as of a lamb without blemish and without spot before the foundation of the world, 1 Peter 1:19-20.
Also I believe the shame they experienced was CAUSED by their "Knowledge" of Good and Evil. They were shame because they "NOW" knew they were naked.
For instance, what if they would have disobeyed God in any other way?
Would they have known they were naked without the knowledge of Good and Evil and responded with shame and try to cover themselves?
Is scripture conclusive that this was their first act of disobedience?
However, even if it were their first act of disobedience, it still applies.
They were uncovered/ vulnerable, absent from the blood of the Lamb which is to atone for sin.
Notice where the emphasis is placed after the act.
Genesis 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were NAKED..
Verses 9-10, And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou;
And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was NAKED; and I hid myself.
11.) And he said, Who told thee that thou wast NAKED?..
21) Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins and clothed them.
22) And the LORD God said, BEHOLD, THE MAN IS BECOME AS ONE OF US, TO KNOW GOOD AND EVIL: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever:
BTW, you stated, "our sins covered and cleansed by the blood of Jesus that makes it spotless and white as long as we continue in faith and overcome. I'm not sure if you're saying that Christ clothing us covers our conscience or sin?
GB.
The curtains broadly divided heaven and the earth as two worlds framed by the word of God. Faith is one (Ep.4:4-5) And it couples the Gospel of God and of Christ. The everlasting covenant under seven days confer blessing on the man whose one hope of calling was invested in Jesus Christ the Word become flesh. Each day in Ge.1 reveals a part of his blessing which is from the fullness of Christ. Seven is the command number of perfect. Seven times seven makes it forty nine, 7x7=49. This refers to the the unto this part of the Son. ("Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee./Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession"-Ps.2:7-8) By the same token "in that day" refers to the Day of Regeneration where the 24 elders whose hope of calling is same as that of man. They praise the slain Lamb as thus, "And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.". Blessing conferred on man is not merely entering into the rest of God but also the rest in which God is in all. "And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all."(1 Co.15:28). This shall explain with the numbers of curtains,"eleven curtains shalt thou make./The length of one curtain shall be thirty cubits, and the breadth of one curtain four cubits: and the eleven curtains shall be all of one measure./And thou shalt couple five curtains by themselves, and six curtains by themselves, and shalt double the sixth curtain in the forefront of the tabernacle."(26:7-9)
7x7+1= 50
This is also declared as the jubilee year. "And ye shall hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof."(Le.25:10-11)