I am sorry if we do not agree, and sorry for the delayed reply.
My understanding, we have two trees, and two Adams one tree associated with the first Adam and the other with the last Adam. Did God know what the first Adam would do? Yes. Does that mean Adam was not made perfect without sin? No. Everything before the first day of creation until the new earth and the new heaven was and is in God's plan. Can we comprehend that? No. Can we know how God will judge anyone before the law or all the people after the law but never heard the commands of God or of Him sending His Son to die for us? Revelation 20:11-15
Two men walked this earth that did not have an earthly father the first and the last Adam. The first was disobedient and the second was obedient unto death. Three people came into the world without a sinful nature Adam, Eve, and Jesus. There was no sin in the first Adam until he disobeyed God, the curse was not given to him or mankind before Adam disobeyed and sinned.
In Scripture, we are told Jesus was tempted the same as we are, Hebrews 4:15 "yet without sin".
Jesus had a will of His own Luke 22:42 Jesus was not just a man His Father was God, He could be tempted, and He was obedient to the Father. If Jesus was unable to disobey and unable to sin if He chose to, how can we say He was tempted and how could He fulfill and overcome the curse of death, and the law and He/Jesus the Son of God die for our sins? Would Satan accept anything other than a man fulfilling the law and taking away his power of death Hebrews 2:14?
In actuality, if you look at your Calendar, the seventh day is Saturday, so the Sabbath is Saturday.
Here's an Example of how the World Corrupts everything.
Jesus was said to be Crucified On 'Good Friday' and raised on 'Easter Sunday' but that would mean he would have been in the tomb for only TWO DAYS, and if he WERE in the tomb for three days after being crucified on Friday, he would be resurrected on a MONDAY.
Here's The More Logical Analogy
1. Jesus gets Crucified on Wednesday
2. Jesus spends three days in the tomb (Thursday-Saturday)
3. Jesus is raised on the Sabbath/Easter (Saturday)
Notice that Satan and the Beast give us a number, but God gives us a name. It shows that while to Satan, we are just a somebody in a sea of nobodies, to God were are treasured and valued.
"And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb."
The throne is set altogether differently than what we see in Ch.4. There is nothing remotely associated with a river and besides St John mentions only a throne not of the Lamb. "And, behold, a door was opened in heaven," and John sees only a single throne," And, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne." (vv.1-2). A voice is about to reveal hereafter and not what we read in Ge.1:1 "In the beginning,". The Spirit is specific, "and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter". In the beginning was the Word as the Gospel of John opens, and it is the book with seven seals. Breaking opening the seven seals refer to the will of God. What is His will? " So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it." The Spirit gives it a visual imagery so the the first voice compels the Apostle to watch where Isaiah 55:11 shall lead to it.
The throne in heaven where God separates the waters with a firmament is the beginning of the river of time. This unseen source is framed by the word of God and the waters flowing leads us to the throne of heaven and of the Lamb. So the waters below signifies the world made to appear. (He.11:3) Consequently the earth that abides forever. (Ge.1:6-8;Ec.1:4)
The Throne of God and of the Lamb is set on the mid-air or the face of heaven. "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork."(Ps.19:1) The circle that is referred in v.4 is significant. Tabernacle for the sun is what the light of the Lamb becomes so there is no more sun or moon required."And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof." (Re.21:23)
Because Genesis said that God saw all that He had made and said it was good, the fall of Satan happened between that statement and when he tempted Eve into sin, in my opinion, unless God was talking about what He had created on the earth, exempting the angels, who sang with joy when the physical universe was made in Genesis 1:1. If the latter, then Satan could have fallen prior to the creation of the earth.
Scripture does not give specific details on when this occurred or whether the "Eden of God" was a heavenly abode which the earthly Eden represents the heavenly Eden.
This question is perplexing, and Christians have written and discussed this for many millenniums
"and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald." The rainbow about the throne is set in relation to an emerald. We see in the visions of Isaiah and Ezekiel respectively the same arrangement. "as the appearance of a sapphire stone:"(Ez.1:26) Compare the continuity provided by the seraphim common in both visions."Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly."(Is.6:2). Ezekiel also gives us the same, "And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone" (Ez.1:28)In addition sapphire we have two other stones mentioned there, namely jasper and sardine. Reminiscent of the vision of John the same bow is mentioned in v.28"As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord.
Jasper sardine and Sapphire, three stones to define trinitarian aspects of God! The rainbow round about the throne encompass within its glory, as Ezekiel would explain it, we have four and twenty elders, four beasts and at the centre the Lamb slain.(Re.5:6) All these constitute as the body where the Word or the Gospel is common. Only the Lamb has prevailed and is worthy to open the seals. " And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon."
Gospel covers heaven the earth and under the earth. 8x3 =24. It is thus we have the number of 24 as representing us in heaven. It is a memorial. The creation signified as four beasts typify Unity of the Spirit. He.2:11
Seven eyes and seven horns complete the body spirit and the soul aspect of the heavenly body, "we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens." This also has bearing upon life,"but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life"
"And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals."
Three things are associated with the Son who is always tagged as the right hand in context of God who is One. The hand with which is good and the left hand in common usage is qualified as maladroit. Can we apply it to God? Oh no. The Spirit uses the right hand figuratively in order to define the divine Will in fulfilment. "And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God." ( Mark 10:18).So we need see his ministry as deity and humanity is the aspect of perfecting what his Father has willed. "And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him."( John 8:29) Before Pilate he confesses the host of angels at his disposal."Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?" In his emptying his humanity was for delivering all whom his Father had left to his charge. So he would rather perfect with one sacrifice all those who were called.( John 17:12; He.10:14)
The book, the seven seals and the contents that it holds are three clues in which significance of their Association and with man, and also life as holiness, the name are inextricably bound.
"When he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high." Jesus Christ as the Son has his seat. "and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne." There are other feature we need consider, firstly "a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald."and the Word both sound as well as sign, "And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God."(Re.4:1-5) Body Spirit and the soul is signified in v.5:6
"And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?"
We see the same angel in Ch.10:1 "And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:" All the clues are here. In the inaugural vision of St John we see these features,in vv.15-16, " And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace," " and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength".The same bow in heaven is over his head. So when God tells Noah, "And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you."(Ge.9:15) he is referring indeed the everlasting covenant and Jesus Christ is 'after our likeness' in Ge.1:28. This rainbow zeroes in on the identity of the mighty or strong angel as the Word. The Word was with God and he gives furthermore as the identity of the rider on the white horse, whose bow is referring to the sign in heaven given to Noah. "And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer."(Re.6:2) Without quiver of arrows there is no mistake about him, - he is the Word become flesh and he also claims his purpose."Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division." ( Luke 12:51;Matt.10:34). St Matthew refers to the sword, which is the mark of his office. He is setting out to conquer and conquering. So the colour white establishes his identity as the Word of God. We shall meet him again in Re.19:16.
There isa gap between the two which explains his deity while the Synoptic gospels is about his humanity. There is no 'gap theory', the Spirit provides only what is needful for instruction in righteousness. Without faith it would be useless to fill in irrelevant details in order to satisfy some curious souls.
I was only referring to Genesis 1:1 which you misquoted. We can disagree with one another, that's what discussion is all about but your attitude is rude and arrogant which I want no part of so I won't be doing any moe discussions with you.
"For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord".
Here we have heaven witnessing to the shepherds in the field and they are given a sign to round off his service. As with the angel giving John the revelation of Jesus Christ which are several signs all relating to the deity of Jesus Christ. He is Alpha and Omega and he is the Word of God and several other attributes, all of which are under the tag, "This day". The angels in heaven take joy over one sinner coming to salvation. So what does connect man and angels or with heaven? It is the word of God. Our worlds what is made to appear and what is unseen have only one sigle measure which is the fulness of Christ. (Re.21:17). "And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger."
Naturally the shepherds were sore afraid, "And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people." This joy which is 'to all people' can have only one meaning: Jesus Christ is the saviour of the whole world.
In the Book of the Revelation the angel that served as his guide reveal himself "for I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book"(Re.22:9) What is common between man and angel is the word. Faith is in their worship whether one or multitudes of them as in v.13 "And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God." So the fellow servant ends his saying "Worship God."
St Paul warns of angels which are inimical to salvation so war in heaven is waged between fallen angels and of light. "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."(Gal.1:8). If we keep the word we abide in Christ we cannot be stranger to angels. We are a single measurement in the kingdom.
Details much like scenario if I was controlled by the mark of the beast by some robotic or laser light control that came preceded
by warning sound of something happening to others; then running out and seeing my car had been taken; then the machinery I mentioned getting my wallet somehow and taking over my body with some AI seemingly giving pleasant experiences but knowing all along it was temporary as I continued in vain to fight what was happening. Very weird and very frightening. My best clue is that there are things in the flesh still attempting to assert strongholds from my past; that was the dream before that.
See, we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: But we speak the wisdom of GOD in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which GOD ordained before the world unto our glory, which none of the princes of this world knew. For what man knows the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of GOD knows no man, but the Spirit of GOD. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of GOD; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of GOD.
But GOD has revealed them unto us by His Spirit: for the Spirit searches all things, yea, the deep things of GOD. 1Corinthians 2:6-16.
In my view,according to the Word of GOD,there are the 1st,2nd and 3rd heavens,and the heaven of the heavens.
What does the Word of GOD say?
Moses said: Deuteronomy 10:14KJV->Behold,the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the Lord's thy GOD, the earth also, with all that therein is.
1Kings 8:27KJV->27 But will GOD indeed dwell on the earth?behold,the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded?
Psalms 33:6KJV->By the Word of the Lord were the HEAVENS made;and all the host of them by the breath of His mouth.
Psalms 148:4KJV-4 Praise him,ye heavens of heavens,and ye waters that be above the heavens.
Job 14:12->12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.
When Scriptures say heaven(singular) they refer to a specific heaven, i.e. to one of the four heavens GOD created, understand? The problem is to discern which of them Scriptures refer.
So,when you intend to post a message,you should FIRST to judge if your message fits with the Word of GOD or not,and if not fit with Scriptures, don't post it. Paul Apostle,was caught to the 3rd heaven, once 3rd heaven exists, also exist the 1st and 2nd heavens.
Re.12:12-Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them( Ephesians 1:3-8). Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea!for the Devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has but a short time.
Furthermore,you said the modern versions are not Holy Ghost inspired like the KJB is,put an 's' implying plural heavens but the Holy Spirit wrote it as one heaven. Now,to say that the modern versions of the Word of GOD are not inspired by the Holy Spirit is a serious error, in fact what you wrote was/is not inspired by the Holy Spirit,in fact you need to rethink the things you wrote for good to them that love GOD,to them who are the called according to His purpose.
Hello brother Spencer, Thank you for making time for some thoughts. For this evening, I would like to stay with my premise that God made Adam and Eve very good in the sixth day before He rested. This thought in Job:
"The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life." Job 33:4 KJV .This verse shows that Life is good and it includes spiritual life as it is made in the likeness of the Spirit of God as everything was in the beginning.
Adam was placed in the garden by God the Father to dress and keep it. We know this by the scripture. We also know by scripture that Adam and his wife Eve did not remain in the state that they were made. When they became naked to each other they were also naked to God the Father and they knew it and tried to hide it.
Adam and his wife Eve were predestinated to the first estate of being made very good physically, emotionally and spiritually for the purpose of dressing and keeping the garden and I would believe as humble children of God. God loved them. It is important to believe that God placed them in the garden himself and that they did not enter on their own. With their free will with power they allowed themselves to be deceived and left this estate and garden in unbelief which is resistance and sin before God the Father.
Now thinking of Titus chapter 3:4-5 the kindness and love of God (the Father) our Savior appeared toward man. This new covering of love with skins and a Promise happened in the garden. His mercy was their salvation. Mercy was free of the works of righteousness which we have done and they too.
Even by faith and hope Adam and Eve went to sleep in their own works of righteousness. We can hope that this covering of Mercy carried them to the second Adam our Christ whose blood is our true covering for our own sin, as we pray by faith for ourselves and every neighbor.
Here we have Ezekiel referencing the Entity behind The king of Tyrus.
Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
THOU HAST BEEN IN EDEN THE GARDEN OF GOD; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Also see Isaiah 14:12-17.
When did all this happen here in Isaiah?
Clearly in Ezekiel he's not talking about the King of Tyrus, when have he been in Eden, "The Garden or God "?
When we view the creation in Genesis chapters 1 and 2 where do we fit this in a six day creation?
I believe you see this in the structure of the menorah.
We have the tendency to believe Man can get his act together if his conditions were to change and there were no outside influence from Satan.
We just need a great economy and time to evolve into Holy people as long as we're under the watch and providence of our great ruler, with even better odds than Adam and Eve had in the Garden or Israel had in the wilderness.
Atleast that would seem to be the case if Satan was bound.
No more evil influence from that deceiver!
Well scripture tells us that the nations of the WORLD will have just that.
Here's just a few verses
Isaiah 30:19-21.
Isaiah 65:17-24.
Amos 9:11-15.
Zechariah 14:16-19.
Revelation 5:10.
Isaiah 2:2-4.
This will happen here on earth during the Millennium when Satan is bound.
And when he's loosed he will deceive the nations again.
I'm finally settled in for the night and thanks again for responding!
I viewed your thoughts and I have a few things I would like you to consider.
I portioned them out and would like to address them separately.
1) You stated; We know they were made very good as part of everything made in the sixth day. I would believe that having been made very good they had a covering at least by the hand of God himself by His image.
Having been placed in the garden to dress and keep it was also good and they had all that they needed.
My thoughts;
"When God says that it was good he's not talking about Adam's spiritual condition! God mentioned the same thing about the light, the seas, the grass and the herb, the cattle, the creeping things, the two great lights to rule over the day and night, and on and on until he finished his creation.
As for setting him in the garden of Eden. Well that didn't work out.
2) Continuing your quote;
"And yet nakedness began by listening to a fellow creature rather than being obedient to the Word of the Father himself.
My thoughts;
You said nakedness began by listening to a fellow creature.
However, In Genesis 2:25
Adam was naked BEFORE he listened to the voice of his wife.
Also Adam wasn't deceived by Satan according to 1 Timothy 2:14.
Adam made the decision to disobey God!
The decision process comes before the act.
He wasn't created perfect and the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil opened his eyes to that.
There's only one perfect being to walk here on earth and that's God himself manifested in the flesh!
This "gap" theory is a possibility as the first verses of Genesis leave some room for such speculation such as this. But throughout the whole Bible there is not any account of this happening, who may have been involved, or how events unfolded. So, thanks for the mention of this. But as for me, I can wait until I am with Jesus to find out if this really happened. I leave it as an open idea for now.
I will continue to pray for your granddaughter, her parents, and your family. God only knows all of what the reason He has allowed this to come into your sweet one. But nothing is impossible for Him, so we pray for healing and miracles for her.
Well, we all on here are all seeking God and His ways in His Holy Word. So you are in good company. Giannis has advised you well to pray for God to lead you to a church fellowship with good sound biblical teaching and a loving environment to grow in. That is the way the church was fist established. Believers meeting together to worship, hear what the apostles and leaders preached and to share life together in godly fellowship and deep love and concern for one another. I will pray for this for you as well.
I, too, think that the wilderness interactions of Jesus and Satan were not so much of a test for Jesus to sin, but a declaration of Jesus proving He IS the divine Son of God and therefore, Satan's governor, ruler, and authority. Jesus knew going into the temptation that He would not sin just as He had not sinned in all the temptations He had faced with growing up and in His early adulthood. He knew who He was, even at the age of 12. He knew He could not sin, but His humanity could be tempted and, as the divine Son was the only Person in Jesus, having both a divine and human nature, but only one Person, He knew He knew He would obey His Father and not sin. He also knew what the devil was going to tempt Him with, as He was divine and omniscient. He also knew He would triumph over Satan in this encounter and Satan would leave Him as a defeated foe.
The Scriptures He quoted to Satan are the words He inspired to be written by Moses, David, and the prophets. He is he author of all Scriptures, so He was quoting these Scriptures not just to defend against the temptation and not just to show honor to His Father, but to show that He is to be honored as His Father is honored, too. The devil was not to think that physical things can override the nourishment of Scripture spoken into existence by Jesus, nor was the devil to test God, whether the Father, the Son, or the Holy Spirit, nor was the devil to worship anyone but the true God, who stood before him in the wilderness; Jesus being God int he flesh and the fullness of the Father, Holy Spirit, and Son dwelled in Him in perfection.
Thanks for bringing this up. Sometimes we think of Jesus as being lower than the Father or lesser, but He is true God just as the Father and Holy Spirit. This kind of segways into my next post on who God is: He is Victor!
This a KJB site where one can read the Bible. But this site does not belong to a particular church. So the people who participate in discussions here are from different churches having sometimes completely opposite beliefs about certain things in the Bible. And since you are a new believer you can not distinguish right from wrong. That is why you were advised to study your Bible and find out yourself. Although me personally I disagree with that. My advise to you is to find, with the help from God, a proper congregation/church and get taught the Word of God. The internet is by no means the proper place for one to learn the Word of God. There are lots of different doctrines on the net, also there are people there who try on purpose to deceive others, wolves in lamb's clothes. So you'd better join a church. GBU
I wouldn't call what I have, a garden. I have a few plants. I have land on the Gulf coast I wish I could get someone to put a garden there so I can get veggies.
When Adam sinned it was his imperfections manifesting itself.
Adam and Eve eyes were opened after they ate of the fruit. They were now able to see things that were there that they never seen before!
Is it possible that without the knowledge of good and evil sin is not imputed as we see in Romans 5:12-13 and John 9:41.
Let's take a closer look at Romans 5, being that it seems relevant to our discussion.
Romans 5:12-14 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
(For until the law sin was in the world: BUT SIN IS NOT IMPUTED WHEN THERE IS NO LAW. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
What do we inherit from Adam? Just his offence?
What about his nature before and after the fall?
I'm having trouble presenting this so let me give an example by way of a hypothetical scenario.
Let's imagine Adam and Eve had children before the fall, (eating of the fruit of the tree) and also children afterwards.
Would all of them inherit Adam's offense or just those born afterwards?
I believe they all would because Adam had a nature that was bound to fall.
One that was subject to sin.
As for Christ We've been over Matthew 4:1-11.
That wasn't a test to see if he would sin but rather to prove him.
It was to show he was who the Scripture say he was.
The Son of God.
And you are referring to Hebrews 4:15. My understanding of that is Christ "being in the flesh" he was able to relate to our testing but WASN'T ABLE to Succumb to the testing and sin.
I just thought I should mention to you that when you said that the bible says in Genesis 1:1 "in the beginning,GOD created the heavens and the earth," that actually, it says: In the beginning God created the heaven (singular) and the earth. The modern versions, which I believe are not Holy Ghost inspired like the KJB is, put an 's' implying plural heavens but the Holy Spirit wrote it as one heaven. God Bless :)
I was just reading Chris's response too you and I noticed he mentioned the Bereans in a positive way and I agree, however, this would be a perfect example of something you could use the internet for to look up the Bereans, unless you already know about them, and see how they compare to the word of God if they are a kind of people you would want to emulate. This is only a suggestion for you not instructions for you to obey. Only do it if you want to.
I would also like to recommend another site that is very helpful for studying. It's called Bible Hub except it's dot org not
dot com. This is just a suggestion. I hope you have a blessed day. God Bless :)
I guess you could say I am new, I lived my life doing anything and everything I wanted. I thought as long as I didn't hurt anyone things were fine. I cannot honestly tell you when or what happened, but I now know I was not living right. I am trying to learn and grow in my faith.
I am sorry if we do not agree, and sorry for the delayed reply.
My understanding, we have two trees, and two Adams one tree associated with the first Adam and the other with the last Adam. Did God know what the first Adam would do? Yes. Does that mean Adam was not made perfect without sin? No. Everything before the first day of creation until the new earth and the new heaven was and is in God's plan. Can we comprehend that? No. Can we know how God will judge anyone before the law or all the people after the law but never heard the commands of God or of Him sending His Son to die for us? Revelation 20:11-15
Two men walked this earth that did not have an earthly father the first and the last Adam. The first was disobedient and the second was obedient unto death. Three people came into the world without a sinful nature Adam, Eve, and Jesus. There was no sin in the first Adam until he disobeyed God, the curse was not given to him or mankind before Adam disobeyed and sinned.
In Scripture, we are told Jesus was tempted the same as we are, Hebrews 4:15 "yet without sin".
Jesus had a will of His own Luke 22:42 Jesus was not just a man His Father was God, He could be tempted, and He was obedient to the Father. If Jesus was unable to disobey and unable to sin if He chose to, how can we say He was tempted and how could He fulfill and overcome the curse of death, and the law and He/Jesus the Son of God die for our sins? Would Satan accept anything other than a man fulfilling the law and taking away his power of death Hebrews 2:14?
God bless,
RLW
Here's an Example of how the World Corrupts everything.
Jesus was said to be Crucified On 'Good Friday' and raised on 'Easter Sunday' but that would mean he would have been in the tomb for only TWO DAYS, and if he WERE in the tomb for three days after being crucified on Friday, he would be resurrected on a MONDAY.
Here's The More Logical Analogy
1. Jesus gets Crucified on Wednesday
2. Jesus spends three days in the tomb (Thursday-Saturday)
3. Jesus is raised on the Sabbath/Easter (Saturday)
"And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb."
The throne is set altogether differently than what we see in Ch.4. There is nothing remotely associated with a river and besides St John mentions only a throne not of the Lamb. "And, behold, a door was opened in heaven," and John sees only a single throne," And, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne." (vv.1-2). A voice is about to reveal hereafter and not what we read in Ge.1:1 "In the beginning,". The Spirit is specific, "and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter". In the beginning was the Word as the Gospel of John opens, and it is the book with seven seals. Breaking opening the seven seals refer to the will of God. What is His will? " So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it." The Spirit gives it a visual imagery so the the first voice compels the Apostle to watch where Isaiah 55:11 shall lead to it.
The throne in heaven where God separates the waters with a firmament is the beginning of the river of time. This unseen source is framed by the word of God and the waters flowing leads us to the throne of heaven and of the Lamb. So the waters below signifies the world made to appear. (He.11:3) Consequently the earth that abides forever. (Ge.1:6-8;Ec.1:4)
The Throne of God and of the Lamb is set on the mid-air or the face of heaven. "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork."(Ps.19:1) The circle that is referred in v.4 is significant. Tabernacle for the sun is what the light of the Lamb becomes so there is no more sun or moon required."And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof." (Re.21:23)
Because Genesis said that God saw all that He had made and said it was good, the fall of Satan happened between that statement and when he tempted Eve into sin, in my opinion, unless God was talking about what He had created on the earth, exempting the angels, who sang with joy when the physical universe was made in Genesis 1:1. If the latter, then Satan could have fallen prior to the creation of the earth.
Scripture does not give specific details on when this occurred or whether the "Eden of God" was a heavenly abode which the earthly Eden represents the heavenly Eden.
This question is perplexing, and Christians have written and discussed this for many millenniums
"and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald." The rainbow about the throne is set in relation to an emerald. We see in the visions of Isaiah and Ezekiel respectively the same arrangement. "as the appearance of a sapphire stone:"(Ez.1:26) Compare the continuity provided by the seraphim common in both visions."Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly."(Is.6:2). Ezekiel also gives us the same, "And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone" (Ez.1:28)In addition sapphire we have two other stones mentioned there, namely jasper and sardine. Reminiscent of the vision of John the same bow is mentioned in v.28"As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord.
Jasper sardine and Sapphire, three stones to define trinitarian aspects of God! The rainbow round about the throne encompass within its glory, as Ezekiel would explain it, we have four and twenty elders, four beasts and at the centre the Lamb slain.(Re.5:6) All these constitute as the body where the Word or the Gospel is common. Only the Lamb has prevailed and is worthy to open the seals. " And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon."
Gospel covers heaven the earth and under the earth. 8x3 =24. It is thus we have the number of 24 as representing us in heaven. It is a memorial. The creation signified as four beasts typify Unity of the Spirit. He.2:11
Seven eyes and seven horns complete the body spirit and the soul aspect of the heavenly body, "we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens." This also has bearing upon life,"but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life"
"And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals."
Three things are associated with the Son who is always tagged as the right hand in context of God who is One. The hand with which is good and the left hand in common usage is qualified as maladroit. Can we apply it to God? Oh no. The Spirit uses the right hand figuratively in order to define the divine Will in fulfilment. "And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God." ( Mark 10:18).So we need see his ministry as deity and humanity is the aspect of perfecting what his Father has willed. "And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him."( John 8:29) Before Pilate he confesses the host of angels at his disposal."Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?" In his emptying his humanity was for delivering all whom his Father had left to his charge. So he would rather perfect with one sacrifice all those who were called.( John 17:12; He.10:14)
The book, the seven seals and the contents that it holds are three clues in which significance of their Association and with man, and also life as holiness, the name are inextricably bound.
"When he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high." Jesus Christ as the Son has his seat. "and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne." There are other feature we need consider, firstly "a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald."and the Word both sound as well as sign, "And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God."(Re.4:1-5) Body Spirit and the soul is signified in v.5:6
"And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?"
We see the same angel in Ch.10:1 "And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:" All the clues are here. In the inaugural vision of St John we see these features,in vv.15-16, " And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace," " and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength".The same bow in heaven is over his head. So when God tells Noah, "And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you."(Ge.9:15) he is referring indeed the everlasting covenant and Jesus Christ is 'after our likeness' in Ge.1:28. This rainbow zeroes in on the identity of the mighty or strong angel as the Word. The Word was with God and he gives furthermore as the identity of the rider on the white horse, whose bow is referring to the sign in heaven given to Noah. "And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer."(Re.6:2) Without quiver of arrows there is no mistake about him, - he is the Word become flesh and he also claims his purpose."Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division." ( Luke 12:51;Matt.10:34). St Matthew refers to the sword, which is the mark of his office. He is setting out to conquer and conquering. So the colour white establishes his identity as the Word of God. We shall meet him again in Re.19:16.
There isa gap between the two which explains his deity while the Synoptic gospels is about his humanity. There is no 'gap theory', the Spirit provides only what is needful for instruction in righteousness. Without faith it would be useless to fill in irrelevant details in order to satisfy some curious souls.
"For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord".
Here we have heaven witnessing to the shepherds in the field and they are given a sign to round off his service. As with the angel giving John the revelation of Jesus Christ which are several signs all relating to the deity of Jesus Christ. He is Alpha and Omega and he is the Word of God and several other attributes, all of which are under the tag, "This day". The angels in heaven take joy over one sinner coming to salvation. So what does connect man and angels or with heaven? It is the word of God. Our worlds what is made to appear and what is unseen have only one sigle measure which is the fulness of Christ. (Re.21:17). "And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger."
Naturally the shepherds were sore afraid, "And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people." This joy which is 'to all people' can have only one meaning: Jesus Christ is the saviour of the whole world.
In the Book of the Revelation the angel that served as his guide reveal himself "for I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book"(Re.22:9) What is common between man and angel is the word. Faith is in their worship whether one or multitudes of them as in v.13 "And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God." So the fellow servant ends his saying "Worship God."
St Paul warns of angels which are inimical to salvation so war in heaven is waged between fallen angels and of light. "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."(Gal.1:8). If we keep the word we abide in Christ we cannot be stranger to angels. We are a single measurement in the kingdom.
Details much like scenario if I was controlled by the mark of the beast by some robotic or laser light control that came preceded
by warning sound of something happening to others; then running out and seeing my car had been taken; then the machinery I mentioned getting my wallet somehow and taking over my body with some AI seemingly giving pleasant experiences but knowing all along it was temporary as I continued in vain to fight what was happening. Very weird and very frightening. My best clue is that there are things in the flesh still attempting to assert strongholds from my past; that was the dream before that.
Appreciate prayer.
Thank you for your reply.
See, we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: But we speak the wisdom of GOD in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which GOD ordained before the world unto our glory, which none of the princes of this world knew. For what man knows the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of GOD knows no man, but the Spirit of GOD. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of GOD; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of GOD.
But GOD has revealed them unto us by His Spirit: for the Spirit searches all things, yea, the deep things of GOD. 1Corinthians 2:6-16.
GOD BLESS
You meant angles or angels?
If angels I am talking of the same was refered by Peter Apostle - 2Peter 2:4 and Jude 1:6
Thank you for your reply.
In my view,according to the Word of GOD,there are the 1st,2nd and 3rd heavens,and the heaven of the heavens.
What does the Word of GOD say?
Moses said: Deuteronomy 10:14KJV->Behold,the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the Lord's thy GOD, the earth also, with all that therein is.
1Kings 8:27KJV->27 But will GOD indeed dwell on the earth?behold,the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded?
Psalms 33:6KJV->By the Word of the Lord were the HEAVENS made;and all the host of them by the breath of His mouth.
Psalms 148:4KJV-4 Praise him,ye heavens of heavens,and ye waters that be above the heavens.
Job 14:12->12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.
When Scriptures say heaven(singular) they refer to a specific heaven, i.e. to one of the four heavens GOD created, understand? The problem is to discern which of them Scriptures refer.
So,when you intend to post a message,you should FIRST to judge if your message fits with the Word of GOD or not,and if not fit with Scriptures, don't post it. Paul Apostle,was caught to the 3rd heaven, once 3rd heaven exists, also exist the 1st and 2nd heavens.
Re.12:12-Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them( Ephesians 1:3-8). Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea!for the Devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has but a short time.
Furthermore,you said the modern versions are not Holy Ghost inspired like the KJB is,put an 's' implying plural heavens but the Holy Spirit wrote it as one heaven. Now,to say that the modern versions of the Word of GOD are not inspired by the Holy Spirit is a serious error, in fact what you wrote was/is not inspired by the Holy Spirit,in fact you need to rethink the things you wrote for good to them that love GOD,to them who are the called according to His purpose.
"The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life." Job 33:4 KJV .This verse shows that Life is good and it includes spiritual life as it is made in the likeness of the Spirit of God as everything was in the beginning.
Adam was placed in the garden by God the Father to dress and keep it. We know this by the scripture. We also know by scripture that Adam and his wife Eve did not remain in the state that they were made. When they became naked to each other they were also naked to God the Father and they knew it and tried to hide it.
Adam and his wife Eve were predestinated to the first estate of being made very good physically, emotionally and spiritually for the purpose of dressing and keeping the garden and I would believe as humble children of God. God loved them. It is important to believe that God placed them in the garden himself and that they did not enter on their own. With their free will with power they allowed themselves to be deceived and left this estate and garden in unbelief which is resistance and sin before God the Father.
Now thinking of Titus chapter 3:4-5 the kindness and love of God (the Father) our Savior appeared toward man. This new covering of love with skins and a Promise happened in the garden. His mercy was their salvation. Mercy was free of the works of righteousness which we have done and they too.
Even by faith and hope Adam and Eve went to sleep in their own works of righteousness. We can hope that this covering of Mercy carried them to the second Adam our Christ whose blood is our true covering for our own sin, as we pray by faith for ourselves and every neighbor.
God bless our meditation.
Here we have Ezekiel referencing the Entity behind The king of Tyrus.
Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
THOU HAST BEEN IN EDEN THE GARDEN OF GOD; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Also see Isaiah 14:12-17.
When did all this happen here in Isaiah?
Clearly in Ezekiel he's not talking about the King of Tyrus, when have he been in Eden, "The Garden or God "?
When we view the creation in Genesis chapters 1 and 2 where do we fit this in a six day creation?
The number of Man is 6.
The number 7 is completeness.
Man is incomplete without God.
I believe you see this in the structure of the menorah.
We have the tendency to believe Man can get his act together if his conditions were to change and there were no outside influence from Satan.
We just need a great economy and time to evolve into Holy people as long as we're under the watch and providence of our great ruler, with even better odds than Adam and Eve had in the Garden or Israel had in the wilderness.
Atleast that would seem to be the case if Satan was bound.
No more evil influence from that deceiver!
Well scripture tells us that the nations of the WORLD will have just that.
Here's just a few verses
Isaiah 30:19-21.
Isaiah 65:17-24.
Amos 9:11-15.
Zechariah 14:16-19.
Revelation 5:10.
Isaiah 2:2-4.
This will happen here on earth during the Millennium when Satan is bound.
And when he's loosed he will deceive the nations again.
Revelation 20:1-8.
Note: This is not the Church!
More on Satan and Eden next.
God bless.
I'm finally settled in for the night and thanks again for responding!
I viewed your thoughts and I have a few things I would like you to consider.
I portioned them out and would like to address them separately.
1) You stated; We know they were made very good as part of everything made in the sixth day. I would believe that having been made very good they had a covering at least by the hand of God himself by His image.
Having been placed in the garden to dress and keep it was also good and they had all that they needed.
My thoughts;
"When God says that it was good he's not talking about Adam's spiritual condition! God mentioned the same thing about the light, the seas, the grass and the herb, the cattle, the creeping things, the two great lights to rule over the day and night, and on and on until he finished his creation.
As for setting him in the garden of Eden. Well that didn't work out.
2) Continuing your quote;
"And yet nakedness began by listening to a fellow creature rather than being obedient to the Word of the Father himself.
My thoughts;
You said nakedness began by listening to a fellow creature.
However, In Genesis 2:25
Adam was naked BEFORE he listened to the voice of his wife.
Also Adam wasn't deceived by Satan according to 1 Timothy 2:14.
Adam made the decision to disobey God!
The decision process comes before the act.
He wasn't created perfect and the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil opened his eyes to that.
There's only one perfect being to walk here on earth and that's God himself manifested in the flesh!
God bless.
This "gap" theory is a possibility as the first verses of Genesis leave some room for such speculation such as this. But throughout the whole Bible there is not any account of this happening, who may have been involved, or how events unfolded. So, thanks for the mention of this. But as for me, I can wait until I am with Jesus to find out if this really happened. I leave it as an open idea for now.
I will continue to pray for your granddaughter, her parents, and your family. God only knows all of what the reason He has allowed this to come into your sweet one. But nothing is impossible for Him, so we pray for healing and miracles for her.
Well, we all on here are all seeking God and His ways in His Holy Word. So you are in good company. Giannis has advised you well to pray for God to lead you to a church fellowship with good sound biblical teaching and a loving environment to grow in. That is the way the church was fist established. Believers meeting together to worship, hear what the apostles and leaders preached and to share life together in godly fellowship and deep love and concern for one another. I will pray for this for you as well.
I, too, think that the wilderness interactions of Jesus and Satan were not so much of a test for Jesus to sin, but a declaration of Jesus proving He IS the divine Son of God and therefore, Satan's governor, ruler, and authority. Jesus knew going into the temptation that He would not sin just as He had not sinned in all the temptations He had faced with growing up and in His early adulthood. He knew who He was, even at the age of 12. He knew He could not sin, but His humanity could be tempted and, as the divine Son was the only Person in Jesus, having both a divine and human nature, but only one Person, He knew He knew He would obey His Father and not sin. He also knew what the devil was going to tempt Him with, as He was divine and omniscient. He also knew He would triumph over Satan in this encounter and Satan would leave Him as a defeated foe.
The Scriptures He quoted to Satan are the words He inspired to be written by Moses, David, and the prophets. He is he author of all Scriptures, so He was quoting these Scriptures not just to defend against the temptation and not just to show honor to His Father, but to show that He is to be honored as His Father is honored, too. The devil was not to think that physical things can override the nourishment of Scripture spoken into existence by Jesus, nor was the devil to test God, whether the Father, the Son, or the Holy Spirit, nor was the devil to worship anyone but the true God, who stood before him in the wilderness; Jesus being God int he flesh and the fullness of the Father, Holy Spirit, and Son dwelled in Him in perfection.
Thanks for bringing this up. Sometimes we think of Jesus as being lower than the Father or lesser, but He is true God just as the Father and Holy Spirit. This kind of segways into my next post on who God is: He is Victor!
This a KJB site where one can read the Bible. But this site does not belong to a particular church. So the people who participate in discussions here are from different churches having sometimes completely opposite beliefs about certain things in the Bible. And since you are a new believer you can not distinguish right from wrong. That is why you were advised to study your Bible and find out yourself. Although me personally I disagree with that. My advise to you is to find, with the help from God, a proper congregation/church and get taught the Word of God. The internet is by no means the proper place for one to learn the Word of God. There are lots of different doctrines on the net, also there are people there who try on purpose to deceive others, wolves in lamb's clothes. So you'd better join a church. GBU
Yes, I live in Georgia.
I wouldn't call what I have, a garden. I have a few plants. I have land on the Gulf coast I wish I could get someone to put a garden there so I can get veggies.
We'll see.
Blessings.
Perhaps I should know this but, when you talk about the "population in Eden" are you talking about other angles?
God Bless :)
When Adam sinned it was his imperfections manifesting itself.
Adam and Eve eyes were opened after they ate of the fruit. They were now able to see things that were there that they never seen before!
Is it possible that without the knowledge of good and evil sin is not imputed as we see in Romans 5:12-13 and John 9:41.
Let's take a closer look at Romans 5, being that it seems relevant to our discussion.
Romans 5:12-14 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
(For until the law sin was in the world: BUT SIN IS NOT IMPUTED WHEN THERE IS NO LAW. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
What do we inherit from Adam? Just his offence?
What about his nature before and after the fall?
I'm having trouble presenting this so let me give an example by way of a hypothetical scenario.
Let's imagine Adam and Eve had children before the fall, (eating of the fruit of the tree) and also children afterwards.
Would all of them inherit Adam's offense or just those born afterwards?
I believe they all would because Adam had a nature that was bound to fall.
One that was subject to sin.
As for Christ We've been over Matthew 4:1-11.
That wasn't a test to see if he would sin but rather to prove him.
It was to show he was who the Scripture say he was.
The Son of God.
And you are referring to Hebrews 4:15. My understanding of that is Christ "being in the flesh" he was able to relate to our testing but WASN'T ABLE to Succumb to the testing and sin.
God bless.
I just thought I should mention to you that when you said that the bible says in Genesis 1:1 "in the beginning,GOD created the heavens and the earth," that actually, it says: In the beginning God created the heaven (singular) and the earth. The modern versions, which I believe are not Holy Ghost inspired like the KJB is, put an 's' implying plural heavens but the Holy Spirit wrote it as one heaven. God Bless :)
I was just reading Chris's response too you and I noticed he mentioned the Bereans in a positive way and I agree, however, this would be a perfect example of something you could use the internet for to look up the Bereans, unless you already know about them, and see how they compare to the word of God if they are a kind of people you would want to emulate. This is only a suggestion for you not instructions for you to obey. Only do it if you want to.
I would also like to recommend another site that is very helpful for studying. It's called Bible Hub except it's dot org not
dot com. This is just a suggestion. I hope you have a blessed day. God Bless :)
thanks to all of you for answering my questions