It's Israel, because the twelve stars represent 12 tribes. See Genesis 12:9: "And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.". The church does not have 12 stars, but SEVEN: "The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches." ( Revelation 1:20). And as for Mary, she does not represent all twelve stars, save in the fact that she's an Israelite.
alex1939...Amen Gerald Hebrews 11:1 is the best description of faith, Its simply a spritual pregnancy that precedes the New Birth...The Child is the H.G. THE Child of Promise...When a woman is pregnant she has the substance of things hoped for the Evidence of things not seen...But in the spritual realm the bridegroom is Jesus and his words are his seeds...Thats y he has to know us, Thats when the good seed the living word is sown in our hearts...Forming Christ in us...My lil Chidren of whom i travail in Birth till CHRIST IS FORMED IN YOU...Thats y he always refers to himself as the son of man...Impling mankinds fruit unto God as Romans 7:4 tells us...Thus the Wheat is truly a baby Christ...Simply b/c the sower of that heavenly seed is Christ the bridegroom...Our hearts is the womb in the spirit...Thats y he is saying that which is born of the spirit is spirit thus the Child IS OUR NEW INNERMAN the H.G. the multiplication/regeneration of Christ in us..The Child is the Evidence we have known the bridegroom.
.....But this is gonna initiate war in heaven...Its gonna be Kingdom against Kingdom...Simply b/c satan is gonna sow a tare in
us which is satans seed...Remember satan the dragon the tare wanted to kill the woman with Child Rev 12:5 a great warfare with in us...This war rages in our hearts and minds simply b/c the Kingdom is gonna be with in us...The woman is the world as God so loved the world but she is also bride the good ground where the good seed was sown impregnating her with that heavenly seed...The Children of Promise an Israel of God...But these things are hid from the wise and prudent and revealed unto babes...Thats y Jeremiah saw all men in travail and birth pains... Jeremiah 30:6...Men & women are gonna birth a baby Christ...Kings shall be your nursing father and women are gonna be your nursing mothers..Faith under this New Covenant is gonna fulfill the great promise of multiplication n regeneration in humanity....ok lemme go
My wife is a lapsed catholic , so that's a definite no for me . The only thing I still really miss is the bread and the wine . That's such an enormous privilege to me , and of course the great sermons from someone who really knows their Bible . However ! This site is keeping me stimulated in that area so I'm very glad to have found it , thanks to you all , past and present , for so many illuminating posts , please keep it up folks ! I'm guessing that maybe I'm not the only one on here who isn't able to attend a church and is getting their spiritual food from here . This site is a very special place and important to a lot of people I think .
This all happened a long time ago so I'm over it now . Bizarrely , since then , my Biblical understanding and appreciation has grown so much . I'm a totally different person to the one I was twenty years ago . Maybe I just grew up and that would have happened even if I had stayed in my congregation . When I left , I was determined to stick with my God , I was so afraid of loosing myself in this world that I clung even tighter to my Bible . So it all worked out in the end . My denomination is very tolerant in many ways except for a couple of strict rules about marriage / divorce , homosexuality and criminal behaviour . This site is a joy to me and I love reading posts from different people with different perspectives and I really appreciate you all . Keep up the good work !
I think you misunderstood me Gerald. I was simply seeking to praise the lord! Brother Gerald, you asked me 11 questions?! I see you are passionate about god and his word brother. I pray god gives you the wisdom of when to speak and when not to speak. We as Christian men and women need to be able to express ourselves in love to one another. Not every word we say is going to be perfect, brother Gerald. I pray god wraps you in his love today! We need more AMENS! More alleluia's! Christ must reign. Yes, brother Gerald! I'm saying AMEN to you brother! I pray joy over your life! Moreover, I pray peace in your heart from anything that is troubling you. Jesus loves us Gerald! I appreciate your comments and questions very much! May the lord bless you in all you do!
I agree with what you're saying. Deity can never be broken. I did also say that He came in the fullness of who God is, but He approached this earthly life like a slave.
Where I said He emptied Himself, that is what it literally says in the Greek text. I will never dispute the deity of Jesus Christ.
We're told in Philippians 2:6, Who, being in the form of God, and the word being means while existing in the form of God. That's who He is. He thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
He did not rob God by proclaiming Himself and presenting Himself as equal to God. So Jesus is not part of who God is. He's God.
Now when we get to Verse 7, and our English Bible doesn't give this to us, but where it reads "But made himself of no reputation"literally, it is translated but He emptied Himself.
What, of being God? No!
Of coming here and taking on human flesh, He emptied Himself of the presentation of "I'm God, and I'm here and you should worship me!"
His approach to this earthly life in His first time coming here was He chose the low road. When He had a choice, He chose to sleep in the garden.
That is not very enticing for some people to say "Where does your pastor live." Well, he lives out in the park. "Where was he born?" In a cave.
All of the things associated with the Lord's path in His approach to this life was I don't want any glory from man. I don't want to be made a king from the earthly standpoint. I don't want to be treated for who I am. I want to be the servant of all.
So this was God Himself taking the low road. He emptied Himself having taken upon Him the form of a servant, or slave, and having been made in the likeness of men.
I was challenged to read the book of Luke starting today. I was amazed that I learned things about the conception of Jesus that I didn't know and about Mary's related that God blessed with a child called John, too. A Bible Challenge is a good idea. I am proud of my cousin for doing this on FaceBook. I love my online Bible. I post scriptures every day for others to read. I love this website.
alex1939..Hi Gerald..I enjoy reading your post... Numbers 14:31-...God told Israel your LITTLE ONES who you said will be a prey them will i bring into the land.
....This is a beautiful Picture of Salvation under the New Covenant...Where we must be bornagain of an incorruptible seed giving birth to the babes and sucklings in our hearts...Our new innerman, Our new hearts and new Spirits...Unless you receive the Kingdom of God ( the Promise land ) as a lil child you will in no wise enter there in...Our New Hearts and spirits is the H.G. the Children of PROMISE that resulted from his death... Zech 13:7..Smite the shepherd and the sheep will be scattered then i will turn my hand to the little ones...The babes and Sucklings which are spirits the H.G. that are gonna be as the stars of heaven in multitudes...That was the great Promise that Christ wd be multiplied as the stars of heaven...Thats y Jesus refers to the H.G as the promise he is the multiplication of Jesus/God...God swore by his very self when he made that Promise...Thus the babes and sucklings are Spirits the H.G...A number no man can number...Is what John saw standing before the throne in white raiment..But these things are hid from the wise and prudent but revealed unto babes....Unless you receive the Kingdom of God as a lil Child you will in no wise enter there in... Numbers 14:31 The little ones that you said wd be a prey them will i bring in...k lemme go
I fear the church has reduced the salvation of God to simply being BORN again.
In truth if we are found before God spotless in the Bride adorned we are still ' saved ' and will be through all ages .
But for now we have been delivered from the power of sin ( the law) and the consequences of sin (eternal separation from God )
The second death .
But then from the very presence of sin .
We were not only saved From we are also saved unto God .
To get out of Egypt by the Word of God ( to Abraham) the blood of a lamb and by the Power of God ( in a day) .
Is to be Born again ,a no people becoming a people .
But we are saved for a purpose it is not to wander in the wilderness .
If you took the word Salvation we have but touched the S of our salvation .
It is as some hardy sailors having landed on some great continent where the weather is perfect the surroundings beautiful and the tree line containing all we might need and we have sat down and built our camp there and at at ' peace'. Not knowing that behind that tree line is a great continent ,full of so much more .
An absurd assertion now made wicked by putting it on the statute books .
But which denies the very simple truth " That a man's life is in his nostrils".
Who has no more ' right' to that breath than any he has received before it or how many he might after .
It is a gift of God .
No man can unlawfully take the life of another , A judicious death penalty for crimes worthy of death is not murder .
But if you take a deep breath and hold it ,that's yours and what you or I say or do with it we can .
Though there are always consequences .some eternal.
But while you are holding your breath wondering what to say or do ,consider when if ever you had to work or labour ( unless Ill) for any breath? When did you ever earn it? Or deserve it ? Never . It is a gift of God .
In truth everyone is in some small measure in a love debt to their mother who while not giving life worked very hard and laboured so that you and I might take or receive that first breath .
We are all then in a love debt to our mothers .
How much more then are all men in a love debt to God ?
Each breath proving just how good He is ,patient ,long suffering not willing that any should perish but that all should come to a knowledge of the truth .
For man curses God and man and by his very life denies the existence of God .
Stripped of all its vain glory and empty promise it basically says ' No matter what evil I do no evil will come'
Or is like a man sitting on a very small branch of a very great tree and he is sawing it off and saying this is mine!
It might surprise you to learn that there are no denominations in heaven we have but one book one faith one baptism one Lord .
The denominations arose since the reformation not because each sound doctrine they taught was wrong ,but rather like Peter thought there revelation and understanding was the be all and end all . He going so far as to contradict the Lord who began to give more light which in Peters thinking did not fit . A warning then . For the Lord had to give him a severe rebuke " get behind me Satan for you.." not many would accept such a reproof . But shows clearly he was not infallible nor THE Rock upon which the eternal church of God is built upon.
But each denomination like Noah's generation thought this is a nice place let us build us a tower and a name for ourselves etc. and stayed where they were put instead of going out into all the world .
Each defending their patch to the death but rejecting the whole truth .
You don't say what denomination you ' married into' but as long as it is not heretical and teaching false doctrine then find a church that believes in the " whole council of God".
The church of which I am a part has made this teaching of the Lord as nothing to do with the church . But in the main says the 5 foolish virgins are the unsaved and the 5 wise the saved .While it can be used in a very limited sense perhaps as a message to the unsaved ,it is primarily directed at the church .
For a virgin by the very nature of things is a God given state .
Paul also speaking of " presenting the church as a chaste bride "
To the unsaved and under the law as in Romans he speaks of those married .
The 10 virgins then refers to the church .
It can be noted that in all aspects save one they are the same .
10 virgins.
All have their lamps lit . The unsaved have no lamps lit for they walk in darkness.
All are waiting for the groom . The world has no interest in the return of the Lord .
All fall asleep . Did not the Lord warn the disciples to watch and pray ? For while the spirit is willing the flesh is weak and apt to overrule . They slept and were unable to face the challenge ahead . The Lord stayed awake and prayed ensuring His flesh would not prevail ( and he die).
All heard the cry " the bride groom comes!". The world will not see Him come nor have ears to hear the cry " come up hither".
All woke up and trimmed their lamps .
The division between the wise and foolish was that the wise had their vessels full of oil and the foolish were unprepared and their vessels empty .
While they were away presumably to get some oil (?) the groom came and the 5 wise entered into the " MARRIAGE".
The 5 foolish heard " I do not know you" they were barred from the marriage .
The wicked on the day of judgement will hear " I never knew you" and are barred from the kingdom .
Two quite different things .
Not only do we need to be BORN again we also need to be continually filled with the Holy Spirit . It's not an option.
The Bible is in many ways like a jigsaw puzzle . Not everything is laid out as you might think .
No matter what the size of the puzzle be it 500 or 5000 the wisest course is to get the side pieces and corners first . On two grounds . No matter how big the puzzle and I've seen one the size of a rug . The most easily identifiable and quickest to put together are the side pieces and corners . Once they are in place you know there is nothing outside of the framework and all go in place within it . They are the milk of the Word ,
How you proceed after that depends on your diligence and patience .
I wouod suggest however it is usual for the earth bits are done first and the sky in the main done last .
Taking the analogy further ,perhaps because we know more of earth in the beginning than we do of heaven?
I have found the Biblevto be the most thought provoking book in the world and has more answers than any man has questions .( real questions that is)
It is not speculation then nor is it an idle question.
For clearly the first time they reached the river Jordon having left Egypt did not take 40 years !
That only occurred when they were barred from entering because of their unbelief .
How long it took the first time can therefore be calculated when you put all the pieces together .
My point was and is that the church of which I am thank God a part has made the wandering in the wilderness the Christian norm and heaven the promised land .
I will spend some time with the reply to your comment.
But what I will say now is when man is created in the image of God, and we are now before the fall of man, he is a reflection of God, and God contains all, so therefor is mans dual nature a reflection of his true nature which is nondual like God he is content.
To be an image of God, means to reflect the nature of God, and the nature is in this world but not of this world. Man is created eternal because he is an image of God and God is eternal. Therefor the LORD tells us to not identify anyone in the world as our father for our Father is in heaven.
Since we are created in the image of God we do contain also the opposite sex in our spititual nature.
You most certainly were , thank you . This site is very precious and helpful to me as I am in isolation. I married out of my denomination , therefore I am not permitted to fellowship at my church , so this site is my only source of contact with other Christians . I appreciate you and everyone on here .
Thanks for that clarification Gerald. I was concerned & confused that the forty years of desert wanderings turned out to only be two years and I couldn't find anything to support that figure. Indeed, some will enter into God's rest, but many today, including most of the children of Israel at that time, failed to do so, because of their unbelief ( Hebrews 3:7-4:6).
I was wondering what you mean by saying Jesus emptied Himself in this Philippians verse.
I do not think that Jesus set aside any of His deity in the incarnation, nor did He empty Himself of any of His divine attributes. But He continued to possess them all but chose not to express them through most of His earthly life. He lived as a man would live, but it was God living out an incarnated manhood.
I do think that in taking on human nature, His glory was veiled, but I do not think He emptied anything of His deity out of Himself during His earthly life just as He did not empty Himself of His humanity when He resurrected and ascended.
So, I would be be interested in hour explanation of Jesus emptying Himself in becoming man, since God cannot never change (be more or less divine than He truly is.
.....But this is gonna initiate war in heaven...Its gonna be Kingdom against Kingdom...Simply b/c satan is gonna sow a tare in
us which is satans seed...Remember satan the dragon the tare wanted to kill the woman with Child Rev 12:5 a great warfare with in us...This war rages in our hearts and minds simply b/c the Kingdom is gonna be with in us...The woman is the world as God so loved the world but she is also bride the good ground where the good seed was sown impregnating her with that heavenly seed...The Children of Promise an Israel of God...But these things are hid from the wise and prudent and revealed unto babes...Thats y Jeremiah saw all men in travail and birth pains... Jeremiah 30:6...Men & women are gonna birth a baby Christ...Kings shall be your nursing father and women are gonna be your nursing mothers..Faith under this New Covenant is gonna fulfill the great promise of multiplication n regeneration in humanity....ok lemme go
Thank you for explaining. It makes more sense to me now.
Thank you and God bless you.
I agree with what you're saying. Deity can never be broken. I did also say that He came in the fullness of who God is, but He approached this earthly life like a slave.
Where I said He emptied Himself, that is what it literally says in the Greek text. I will never dispute the deity of Jesus Christ.
We're told in Philippians 2:6, Who, being in the form of God, and the word being means while existing in the form of God. That's who He is. He thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
He did not rob God by proclaiming Himself and presenting Himself as equal to God. So Jesus is not part of who God is. He's God.
Now when we get to Verse 7, and our English Bible doesn't give this to us, but where it reads "But made himself of no reputation"literally, it is translated but He emptied Himself.
What, of being God? No!
Of coming here and taking on human flesh, He emptied Himself of the presentation of "I'm God, and I'm here and you should worship me!"
His approach to this earthly life in His first time coming here was He chose the low road. When He had a choice, He chose to sleep in the garden.
That is not very enticing for some people to say "Where does your pastor live." Well, he lives out in the park. "Where was he born?" In a cave.
All of the things associated with the Lord's path in His approach to this life was I don't want any glory from man. I don't want to be made a king from the earthly standpoint. I don't want to be treated for who I am. I want to be the servant of all.
So this was God Himself taking the low road. He emptied Himself having taken upon Him the form of a servant, or slave, and having been made in the likeness of men.
They only can put you out the building. Christ is in the midst of all believers. When the last person exit the building, so has the Holyspirit.
Have you tried to fellowship at your wife church?
....This is a beautiful Picture of Salvation under the New Covenant...Where we must be bornagain of an incorruptible seed giving birth to the babes and sucklings in our hearts...Our new innerman, Our new hearts and new Spirits...Unless you receive the Kingdom of God ( the Promise land ) as a lil child you will in no wise enter there in...Our New Hearts and spirits is the H.G. the Children of PROMISE that resulted from his death... Zech 13:7..Smite the shepherd and the sheep will be scattered then i will turn my hand to the little ones...The babes and Sucklings which are spirits the H.G. that are gonna be as the stars of heaven in multitudes...That was the great Promise that Christ wd be multiplied as the stars of heaven...Thats y Jesus refers to the H.G as the promise he is the multiplication of Jesus/God...God swore by his very self when he made that Promise...Thus the babes and sucklings are Spirits the H.G...A number no man can number...Is what John saw standing before the throne in white raiment..But these things are hid from the wise and prudent but revealed unto babes....Unless you receive the Kingdom of God as a lil Child you will in no wise enter there in... Numbers 14:31 The little ones that you said wd be a prey them will i bring in...k lemme go
In truth if we are found before God spotless in the Bride adorned we are still ' saved ' and will be through all ages .
But for now we have been delivered from the power of sin ( the law) and the consequences of sin (eternal separation from God )
The second death .
But then from the very presence of sin .
We were not only saved From we are also saved unto God .
To get out of Egypt by the Word of God ( to Abraham) the blood of a lamb and by the Power of God ( in a day) .
Is to be Born again ,a no people becoming a people .
But we are saved for a purpose it is not to wander in the wilderness .
If you took the word Salvation we have but touched the S of our salvation .
It is as some hardy sailors having landed on some great continent where the weather is perfect the surroundings beautiful and the tree line containing all we might need and we have sat down and built our camp there and at at ' peace'. Not knowing that behind that tree line is a great continent ,full of so much more .
" Now faith is the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things as yet unseen "
I'm not a fan of predictive type either . :)
An absurd assertion now made wicked by putting it on the statute books .
But which denies the very simple truth " That a man's life is in his nostrils".
Who has no more ' right' to that breath than any he has received before it or how many he might after .
It is a gift of God .
No man can unlawfully take the life of another , A judicious death penalty for crimes worthy of death is not murder .
But if you take a deep breath and hold it ,that's yours and what you or I say or do with it we can .
Though there are always consequences .some eternal.
But while you are holding your breath wondering what to say or do ,consider when if ever you had to work or labour ( unless Ill) for any breath? When did you ever earn it? Or deserve it ? Never . It is a gift of God .
In truth everyone is in some small measure in a love debt to their mother who while not giving life worked very hard and laboured so that you and I might take or receive that first breath .
We are all then in a love debt to our mothers .
How much more then are all men in a love debt to God ?
Each breath proving just how good He is ,patient ,long suffering not willing that any should perish but that all should come to a knowledge of the truth .
For man curses God and man and by his very life denies the existence of God .
Stripped of all its vain glory and empty promise it basically says ' No matter what evil I do no evil will come'
Or is like a man sitting on a very small branch of a very great tree and he is sawing it off and saying this is mine!
Oops I meant well spoken!
I'm trying something new, "Using voice command from the cell phone.
It's not going well.
God bless.
There is more to this than meets the eye ,I think .
Well token God bless you.
The denominations arose since the reformation not because each sound doctrine they taught was wrong ,but rather like Peter thought there revelation and understanding was the be all and end all . He going so far as to contradict the Lord who began to give more light which in Peters thinking did not fit . A warning then . For the Lord had to give him a severe rebuke " get behind me Satan for you.." not many would accept such a reproof . But shows clearly he was not infallible nor THE Rock upon which the eternal church of God is built upon.
But each denomination like Noah's generation thought this is a nice place let us build us a tower and a name for ourselves etc. and stayed where they were put instead of going out into all the world .
Each defending their patch to the death but rejecting the whole truth .
You don't say what denomination you ' married into' but as long as it is not heretical and teaching false doctrine then find a church that believes in the " whole council of God".
Thanks
GBU
The church of which I am a part has made this teaching of the Lord as nothing to do with the church . But in the main says the 5 foolish virgins are the unsaved and the 5 wise the saved .While it can be used in a very limited sense perhaps as a message to the unsaved ,it is primarily directed at the church .
For a virgin by the very nature of things is a God given state .
Paul also speaking of " presenting the church as a chaste bride "
To the unsaved and under the law as in Romans he speaks of those married .
The 10 virgins then refers to the church .
It can be noted that in all aspects save one they are the same .
10 virgins.
All have their lamps lit . The unsaved have no lamps lit for they walk in darkness.
All are waiting for the groom . The world has no interest in the return of the Lord .
All fall asleep . Did not the Lord warn the disciples to watch and pray ? For while the spirit is willing the flesh is weak and apt to overrule . They slept and were unable to face the challenge ahead . The Lord stayed awake and prayed ensuring His flesh would not prevail ( and he die).
All heard the cry " the bride groom comes!". The world will not see Him come nor have ears to hear the cry " come up hither".
All woke up and trimmed their lamps .
The division between the wise and foolish was that the wise had their vessels full of oil and the foolish were unprepared and their vessels empty .
While they were away presumably to get some oil (?) the groom came and the 5 wise entered into the " MARRIAGE".
The 5 foolish heard " I do not know you" they were barred from the marriage .
The wicked on the day of judgement will hear " I never knew you" and are barred from the kingdom .
Two quite different things .
Not only do we need to be BORN again we also need to be continually filled with the Holy Spirit . It's not an option.
No matter what the size of the puzzle be it 500 or 5000 the wisest course is to get the side pieces and corners first . On two grounds . No matter how big the puzzle and I've seen one the size of a rug . The most easily identifiable and quickest to put together are the side pieces and corners . Once they are in place you know there is nothing outside of the framework and all go in place within it . They are the milk of the Word ,
How you proceed after that depends on your diligence and patience .
I wouod suggest however it is usual for the earth bits are done first and the sky in the main done last .
Taking the analogy further ,perhaps because we know more of earth in the beginning than we do of heaven?
I have found the Biblevto be the most thought provoking book in the world and has more answers than any man has questions .( real questions that is)
It is not speculation then nor is it an idle question.
For clearly the first time they reached the river Jordon having left Egypt did not take 40 years !
That only occurred when they were barred from entering because of their unbelief .
How long it took the first time can therefore be calculated when you put all the pieces together .
My point was and is that the church of which I am thank God a part has made the wandering in the wilderness the Christian norm and heaven the promised land .
My point is that the church has made the promised land heaven and Jordon death .
And that we have made the wandering in the wilderness for 40 years the Christian norm .
Getting out of Egypt was but being born again . And the crossing of the wilderness ,boot camp .
Where civilians are changed into soldiers so to speak.
Is it not written that the bride of Christ is to " come out of the wilderness terrible as an army with banners leaning upon her beloved"?
The bride must get herself ready boot camp is over .
But what I will say now is when man is created in the image of God, and we are now before the fall of man, he is a reflection of God, and God contains all, so therefor is mans dual nature a reflection of his true nature which is nondual like God he is content.
To be an image of God, means to reflect the nature of God, and the nature is in this world but not of this world. Man is created eternal because he is an image of God and God is eternal. Therefor the LORD tells us to not identify anyone in the world as our father for our Father is in heaven.
Since we are created in the image of God we do contain also the opposite sex in our spititual nature.
I was wondering what you mean by saying Jesus emptied Himself in this Philippians verse.
I do not think that Jesus set aside any of His deity in the incarnation, nor did He empty Himself of any of His divine attributes. But He continued to possess them all but chose not to express them through most of His earthly life. He lived as a man would live, but it was God living out an incarnated manhood.
I do think that in taking on human nature, His glory was veiled, but I do not think He emptied anything of His deity out of Himself during His earthly life just as He did not empty Himself of His humanity when He resurrected and ascended.
So, I would be be interested in hour explanation of Jesus emptying Himself in becoming man, since God cannot never change (be more or less divine than He truly is.