Jesse, Thank you for your response. Praise God! It is encouraging to hear from someone that has an understanding of what God is saying to them. May God thru the Holy Spirit continue to bless you with revelations unto His Word.
Hi Angela. I wouldn't agree with your question, "why are certain books removed from the Bible?" May I assume that you're referring to what are termed as 'apocryphal books'? Or, are you finding that some books that are in the recognized canon of Scripture have been deliberately removed?
I can't answer to the latter, but to the former, there were very many books, manuscripts & other writings around throughout history, and particularly in the inter-testamental period (i.e. after Malachi's prophecy & the entrance of Jesus Christ at Bethlehem). Some of these writings were known to the Jews, but ultimately they only accepted the Word revealed through Moses (i.e. the Torah: the five Books of Moses); the Nevi'im (or, the Prophets), and the Ketuvim (or, the Writings). And within those broad divisions, we get our Bible (i.e. the same books as in the Tanakh (the Jewish Bible), but variations in order of appearance, & other minor changes).
So, the Jews rejected the apocrypha & other spurious writings as being the Word of God, from God, & likewise, when the NT Canon was brought together, similar rules were applied, where authors, textual examination, falsehoods, etc., were reasons for post-New Testament writings being rejected. Now some Churches, e.g. the Roman Catholic & orthodox, do accept the apocryphal books as valid, but in mainstream Christianity, we believe that what we have now is God's Word, and that to fully accept these other writings, severely prejudice the Truth, as revealed to us.
I can't give you all the errors in these books, but if you look at a couple: Tobit 12:9 (speaks of almsgiving purging sin & saves from death). 2 Maccabees 12:41-45 (place of purgatory & a monetary sin offering). Just these two references go against the teaching of Scripture. Of course, there are truths written in these books, but the evidence of errors therein, should cause us to be very wary & alert.
I can't answer your second question - depends on which Fellowship you attend.
Hi Timothy. Just looking at the Scriptures on Luke, I note that he was a close friend of the Apostle Paul, who referred to him as 'the beloved physician' ( Colossians 4:14). He is also spoken of as a "fellow labourer" ( Philemon 1:24).
During Paul's second missionary journey, Luke connected with Paul in Asia Minor ( Acts 16:6-11. Verse 10 particularly indicates this: "WE endeavoured to go into Macedonia"). Luke was then left in Philippi ( Acts 17:1: "THEY", Luke excluded) and then re-connected with Paul to travel with him on the third missionary journey ( Acts 20:5: "US").
Luke also accompanied Paul on his journey to Jerusalem & then to Rome and was with Paul during his imprisonment there ( 2 Timothy 4:11: which you had quoted). So, you can see that Luke, with many others (in the Church & on the 'mission field'), played a vital role in Paul's ministry & provided him with fellowship & encouragement. And of course Luke's medical knowledge, no doubt would have been useful to both Paul & maybe those in such need in their travels.
Hello William. My understanding is that Joseph & Mary were married prior to Jesus' Birth. If I'm reading Matthew 1:24,25 correctly: "Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS"; it seems that after Joseph had settled in his heart that Mary was not unfaithful during their betrothal period, he then married her ("took unto him his wife"), did not demand his conjugal rights ("knew her not"), but abstained until the promised Messiah Babe would be born. Of course, after this Divine Birth, Joseph & Mary went on to have other children ( Matthew 13:55,56).
It has always astounded me about needs of church members that seem to be ignored; or perhaps are quietly helped on occasion by a few in private. I won't get into specifics as to those who are aided on the outside; I sometimes would get reimbursed other times not. We need to be careful though not to give money to those who are going to use it to perpetuate their sinful lifestyle. I have seen that situation before as well.
As to things such as building issues; I have seen poor planning investing in a building with foundation issues that a former pastor has had to fork out well beyond his initial assessments. Wisdom should be utilized; and obviously we don't need a "crystal cathedral" building. On the other hand; there are local churches such as the first one I attended some 40 years ago which had a pastor with medical expenses for his wife that weren't being covered despite rather wealthy people in the church very little money was given.
Our own investments. Wisdom is waning in this age. There are practical ways to invest; including within our own families that can not only be a legacy for them but also honor the Kingdom of God. There are good lessons to be learned in disciplining children early on; admittedly against a backdrop of a selfish; materialistic age.
I have known individuals with wealth who have been quite generous in giving; although it is common knowledge that well to do individuals tend to give less than others in proportion quite often. That seems to be different among those of the world with wealth these days and their many causes.
We need to remember that "He who is faithful with a few things can be trusted with much" ( Luke 16:10 not verbatum). Also there is scripture indicating faithfulness in earthly things and how it relates to Him trusting us with heavenly riches. Our reward is in reaping a great harvest of souls and relates to our faithfulness. Let us not hide our talents either.
Amen to that! I have said this before and this is what I believe about prayer:
To me, prayer is the means by which I express my submission to Gods will in whatever it is I am praying for.
What that means is when I petition the Lord in prayer and ask for His will to be done, I have the promise according to 1 John 5:14-16 that He will answer my prayer.
It doesn't matter what it is, He will answer if I ask according to His will. Now, I know that doesn't mean I'm always going to get what I expect, and my situation might even get worse, but it will be according to His will, and I must accept it and thank Him either way!
Often times people pray for things, whether it be for better health, better finances, new job, or whatever they are praying for, but in their prayer, the do not pray for His will to be done, and then wonder why their prayer was not answered.
But if we pray anything according to His will, that prayer will be heard and answered. And we have to submit and accept whatever His will is.
After the one year separation, they had what is called the CHUPPAH which is the actual wedding ceremony. CHUPPAH is the Hebrew word for wedding, and KIDDUSHIM was the betrothal period.
Here's something else that is important to know. When the KIDDUSHIM takes place, they are married. The only way you can break the espousal, the engagement, is by divorce.
So this is how this whole thing plays out. Mary was his wife, even though the official wedding ceremony, the CHUPPAH had not yet taken place. They had already entered into the KIDDUSHIM, the engagement and time of purity.
Remember that is a one year period, but they are still married. Some of the more modern translations will say take Mary as your wife, and they will put "as" in italics to kind of give you something.
But they completely go against the whole KIDDUSHIM/CHUPPAH arrangement because as soon as you get engaged, their version of engagement, it took a divorce to break it.
But according to Jewish custom, once the KIDDUSHIM (1-year separation/time of purity) began, they were considered married, even though the marriage ceremony took place after the 1 year separation.
That is why Joseph was about to divorce her when he found out she was pregnant during the KIDDUSHIM period. They were considered married even before the CHUPPAH took place.
I am going to say yes, and here's why. In Matthew 1:18, we have the social circumstances surrounding Joseph and Mary.
It says when Mary his mother was espoused to Joseph, and in the Greek text, it is in the passive voice which means that you are receiving the action from somebody else.
This is very important and here's why.
Joseph and Mary were espoused, not because they were engaged or betrothed, or espoused to each other. The passive voice from the Greek means that they were brought together in an arrangement. They were the recipients of the betrothal.
Back in those days in Jewish tradition, contracts were made between two families for marriage. Girls were betrothed at the age of 12 and 13, and the boys were older. And they (Mary and Joseph) were betrothed together by the parents, not by their own choice.
It also says that "before they came together," which is a Greek word that means before their marriage was consummated. And the main verb is "she was found to be with child," again passive voice.
Here is how this worked back in traditional times, the time when all this was taking place:
They had what was called the KIDDUSHIM, which was the betrothal period. It's not exactly the same as our engagements. This is called KIDDUSHIM which means separate, or to separate.
And what happens is that when you became betrothed or espoused or engaged, you stayed separate for a whole year. This was called the time of purity to make sure that the woman wasn't pregnant.
Well, it was during this time of KIDDUSHIM that she was found to be pregnant.
During this whole year that they were separated, and even though they had not yet had a marriage ceremony, they were considered to be married.
I will continue in another post to further explain this.
The word tithe apparently is not found in the New Testament. The Book of Corinthians probably covers giving more than anywhere else. The clear principle from Ananias and Sapphira is NOT to commit something to the Lord then retract (as their deaths afterward attested). Where our treasure is our heart is also. ( Matthew 6:21). If we are to side with the "love of money" then we can either be cheapskates or give for causes that make us "feel good". Thus; a "prosperity gospel" church tickles people's ears and offers opulent settings for meetings and worship.
There is no sin in asking for a financial report for a church. Members should be concerned about 401c status and any compromising that a Pastor has made in order to retain that status. They should see how much is spent on entertainment; fancy building projects; etc. and what is spent on missions; for instance. Those who have jet planes themselves probably aren't as concerned about ministers that insist on such luxuries for themselves if they continue to attend such churches.
We should certainly consider what Paul said in scripture as to his often extreme need and apparent appalling giving where he said he was "robbing churches" ( 2 Cor. 11:8). Even good churches tend to give extremely low percentages of moneys to missions effort overseas from my experience. This has caused me to give to a few when able myself. This is not to boast; but again to emphasize the need. In my case I am supporting someone overseas busy working in the medical field in a new hospital struggling to find enough staff; as well as doing other ministry work on the side. Previously on the side some of us supported a young man in Uganda who had prison ministry; library ministry and other things going on. Generally; giving should also benefit real needs in a church. These days it seems there is more emphasis on outside needs from people more often than not not very reliable.
There is a difference in calling the Holy Spirit "Beelzebub" or ascribing it to the Devil (which is blasphemy against the Spirit) and stating that demons could for instance arrange to leave someone or become dormant that are afflicting a person. Thus; my statement would have been better worded if I made clear that an illness can be caused by a demon (or not) and an APPARENT healing can be caused by a demon as well. My point is also that Christ truly did possess the Spirit "without measure". His sheep know Him and hear His voice and it was clearly known that no man had done such miracles as sight to the blind before. He could have been the ultimate "signs and wonders" extravaganza; but without the rest of His message on repentance it is incomplete..(which is; BTW a key issue when it comes to being relieved from demonic influence since it gives them legal authority to torment people and cause ailments).
If I could see in someone's eyes or by their fruit that they were indeed possessed or using occult practices then I could make the case of demonic influence. Many other times it is the power of suggestion; or outright manipulation and fakery. God sometimes does also work dspite false teachers invoking Him (as in the case of Judas Iscariot when he went out with the 12 to do wonders apparently).
As to Christ not saying who it was; He was God in the flesh and also had a timeline for things to be revealed so that the crucifixion would occur exactly when and where it did. To avoid early martyrdom as it was He had to avert about 10 attempts on His life. He also used parables and weeded people out; not wanting followers who weren't going to count the cost. This also kept people out who didn't really recognize His divinity but saw all the benefits of a free meal; and perhaps healings as well (note when only 1 person of 10 came back to thank Him afterwards falling at His feet).
1. You wrote "or something that actually IS caused by demons;"
We should be extremely careful and avoid call a "healing" as something done by a demon, isn't that what the Pharisees were saying about Jesus? There is always the danger of blaspheming the Holly Spirit. It is better to say that a healing may be fake rather than it is caused by demons. The latter is risky.
2. You wrote "It is important to remember also that Christ would tell many especially early on in His ministry NOT to tell anyone who He was." What was the reason for that? One (maybe not the only one) is stated in Mark 2:45. "But he(the man who was healed) went out, and began to publish it much, and to blaze abroad the matter, insomuch that Jesus COULD NO MORE OPENLY ENTER INTO A CITY, but was without in desert places: and they came to him from every quarter."
"So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon(John, Mary, Elen, Tom, ... write your name) son of Jonas, LOVEST THOU ME MORE THAN THESE(other things in your life)?"
"Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
And Thomas answered and said unto him, MY LORD AND MY GOD."
I find it ..well!! I find it not right to be asking people in the service lost or saved to lift up holy hands are we not to be still in knowing he is God in the middle of us who get together on Sunday in service and to hear the Gospel...do we have to be waving hands just because the pastor is asking ?? should we not just be still with ears open for the word...
alex1939...I just wanted to give ya my take on the Garden of God...And the 2 trees in the midst of the Garden...I think they are tied together in this New Covenant in our hearts...Salvation can come via his words of that Book in the Fathers right hand.
.....What i am trying to tell you is this New Covenant is tied into the Garden of our hearts...This tree of Knowledge is an intimacy...Thats y Jesus says he has to KNOW us...And thats the only way we can be bornagain of an incorruptible seed which is the contents of that book/That tree of KNOWLEDGE...The only way that good seed can be sown in our heart is thru an intimacy...Thats when he Knows us...The only way we can ever KNOW right from wrong in self control of the flesh is thru this Tree of KNOWLEDGE...That New COVENANT Is by Being bornagain of an incoruptible seed THE LIVING WORD...The biblical definition of Knowledge is an intimacy...Not about fun and games or Church attendence... or Carnal knowledge But an intimacy where that good seed is sown in our hearts initiating a heavenly birth of Christ in us That Child of PROMISE...The H.G....Thats y the prophets saw all the world in travail and birth pains... Jeremiah 30:6...A time of Jacobs troubles, Jacob was the 3 rd person in the Abrahamic trinity...And that Child of promise is the H.G. the 3 rd Person in the heavenly Trinity...The gift of God from the leaves of the trees... Rev 22:16...For the healing of the nations...Our Child birth but the Child is the H.G. That which is born of the spirit is spirit which is the H.G. That Child of Promise...We are not under that old covenant any more...Now the very Kingdom of God is gonna be with in us...Thus the 2 trees are gonna be with in us...Its our hearts that is the Garden of God where that good seed is sown...The bridegroom wants to sow his seed in our hearts which is the living WORD...The leaves of the tree of KNOWLEDGE...And Isaiah said that this KNOWLEDGE is gonna cover the earth as the waters cover the seas. Is.11:9 k
One of my praying the Scriptures is praying by putting myself in Ephesians Chapter 3 verses 14-21. To me, praying the Scriptures is being in agreement with God and His will to answer. This is a powerful prayer.
is this God telling me that he trust me enough to with his word to fight with him. Is he telling me that i will go into balle will him when he comes back to fight ? with me seeing holding the sword in my hands and the Holy One behind me guiding me is it my inceaation to fight the battle of armMagaddon with him?
Hello Meliah. I'm unsure whether you're asking about Jeremiah the man, or Jeremiah the prophetical book that he authored. So, I'll share on both points.
Jeremiah received the Word from God, that he was separated (set apart) from pre-birth & ordained to be God's prophet for that time in history ( Jeremiah 1:5). This was during the reign of King Josiah & his prophetical work went on till Judah's last reigning king, King Zedekiah - at which time Babylon invaded Palestine, occupied Jerusalem & captives taken back to Babylon.
The Book of Jeremiah is Jeremiah's account of God's dealings with him, Judah, their captors, and the other nations. Even though Jeremiah was reluctant to do as commanded by God, he nevertheless did not fail to bring out the prophetical message to the people. For over forty years, he faithfully proclaimed God's stern Judgement on apostate Judah, all the while Jeremiah had to endure fierce opposition, beatings & imprisonment ( Jeremiah 11:18-23; 12:6; 18:18; 20:1-3; 26:1-24; 37:11-38:28).
Even though warnings against sin & coming judgement are uppermost throughout the book, God still sent out messages of hope & future restoration. Predictions of a coming Messiah ( Jeremiah 23:5,6); the duration of the Babylonian captivity ( Jeremiah 25:11); and the revelation of the New Covenant ( Jeremiah 31:31-34) are the bright lights seen in this book.
First, thanks for your thoughts. Your agreement with some of my views, such as there was a DECISION by God, indicates something quite surprising in Genesis that I cannot untangle yet.
In my view, there are two questions. It seems Adam COULD have eaten of the tree of life either prior to the tree of knowledge or after he became a man, but prior to God's discovery.
At the time of Adam's eating of the fruit, he knew two things:
1. Eve would surely die
2. If He ate, he too would surely die.
The LORD God said so.
Yet, even still, Adam at of the fruit. While the Bible does not express motivation, I state that a consistent and supported interpretation is that Adam decided that he would rather bind his fate to his other half, and die, than to have Eve die while he lived.
To me, that is a very beautiful thought, and it makes life meaningful, that EVEN with death, the alternative of living a life without love is WORSE than living life with it, and dying. That the life of half a man is not meaningful, and ONLY with the union with woman, is life worth it.
It is my view there are elements to Genesis that support this notion. And furthermore, there can be nothing that gives solace to our mortal lives than that realization. That LOVE is more important even than eternal death.
Hi Dante, Thank you for posing some very good queries on this subject.
I don't think that Adam and Eve ate from the tree of life. Why, we do not know. Maybe it was hard to get to or did not seem attractive or had some other barrier.
I do think that God knew all that would happen in the garden before He even created anything as He is omniscient and nothing is hidden from Him. He does not learn anything new nor does He find out things as time passes. He knows all that will ever be and every possibility that could ever be. So, nothing surprises Him. In this all-knowingness, God created everything with knowledge of all that would be and happen, all of the thoughts and actions of mankind since before He created. He knew every sin we would commit, every motivation, every prayer we would speak to Him, every tear that we would shed, every act of love we would do for Him and others, every disaster and cataclysmic event He would bring into history. Awesome to think about, really.
If God learned new knowledge that He did not always know then this would indicate a change in Him, and the Scriptures clearly say that he does not change ever. He can never increase in any of His attributes or have diminish in any of them. He cannot do anything that He had not already knew He would do. This immutability means that He is infinitely complete and perfect in every way. He cannot get any better than what He always is. He cannot add any new aspect to His character nor subtract any aspect of His character because His nature is full and He is in need of nothing else. He is self-existing and self-sufficient and self-satisfied in Himself at all times and from eternity to eternity.
Dante, I say these things because when I think about them, I stand in awe of Him and humbly worship Him. i once again recall his excellencies and find His infinite perfection very comforting knowing that He will always be whom he will be, as YHWH means.
Hi S.Spencer. I meant what I said, that Adam and Eve were indeed free to eat from any tree in the garden, but we commanded not to eat of the tree of knowledge. They were free to choose to obey or not. So that is why I said they were free to eat of any tree in the garden, but were also forbidden to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. I was referring to their free agency, having a freedom to will what they wished. But that freedom led them to disobey. Adam and Eve were the only humans to truly have completely free agency (apart from Jesus). Everyone descended from Adam and Eve (except Jesus) had a fallen nature and their agency is depraved compared to Adam and Eve before they sinned. All of us since Adam are conceived being enslaved by the sin nature and cannot on our own free will turn to God, obey Him, nor even seek Him unless He draws us, the Spirit regenerates us, and Jesus gives us His righteousness.
You are right in saying God didn't command Adam not to eat of the tree of life, He commanded they couldn't eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil as mentioned here in Genesis 2:16-17.
"And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."
But how do we know that they didn't eat of the tree of life BEFORE they disobeyed?
Here's all we have that is written.
Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, THE MAN IS BECOME AS ONE OF US, ((TO KNOW GOOD AND EVIL)): and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Perhaps God forbidden them from eating of the tree of life AFTER their disobedience.
The results of their disobedience is that they knew they were naked and they tried to cover themselves. Now naked is also used throughout scripture to mean " Sin exposed" Here's one of several.
Revelation 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
These garments is the covering of the blood of Christ. "White robes"
Christ was ordained to come into the world before the world began, to be the sacrificial Lamb. For Adam too!
Scipture doesn't say Adam "BECAME" naked after he disobeyed.
Scripture says he KNEW he was naked after he disobeyed.
See here ;
Genesis 3:10-11 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
And he said, WHO TOLD THEE THAT THOU WAST NAKED? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
I believe the issue is what would he do with that knowledge!
They tried to cover up their guilt and shame with the product of their own efforts. This may have been the first attempt at a works salvation.
to be Putin!
I can't answer to the latter, but to the former, there were very many books, manuscripts & other writings around throughout history, and particularly in the inter-testamental period (i.e. after Malachi's prophecy & the entrance of Jesus Christ at Bethlehem). Some of these writings were known to the Jews, but ultimately they only accepted the Word revealed through Moses (i.e. the Torah: the five Books of Moses); the Nevi'im (or, the Prophets), and the Ketuvim (or, the Writings). And within those broad divisions, we get our Bible (i.e. the same books as in the Tanakh (the Jewish Bible), but variations in order of appearance, & other minor changes).
So, the Jews rejected the apocrypha & other spurious writings as being the Word of God, from God, & likewise, when the NT Canon was brought together, similar rules were applied, where authors, textual examination, falsehoods, etc., were reasons for post-New Testament writings being rejected. Now some Churches, e.g. the Roman Catholic & orthodox, do accept the apocryphal books as valid, but in mainstream Christianity, we believe that what we have now is God's Word, and that to fully accept these other writings, severely prejudice the Truth, as revealed to us.
I can't give you all the errors in these books, but if you look at a couple: Tobit 12:9 (speaks of almsgiving purging sin & saves from death). 2 Maccabees 12:41-45 (place of purgatory & a monetary sin offering). Just these two references go against the teaching of Scripture. Of course, there are truths written in these books, but the evidence of errors therein, should cause us to be very wary & alert.
I can't answer your second question - depends on which Fellowship you attend.
During Paul's second missionary journey, Luke connected with Paul in Asia Minor ( Acts 16:6-11. Verse 10 particularly indicates this: "WE endeavoured to go into Macedonia"). Luke was then left in Philippi ( Acts 17:1: "THEY", Luke excluded) and then re-connected with Paul to travel with him on the third missionary journey ( Acts 20:5: "US").
Luke also accompanied Paul on his journey to Jerusalem & then to Rome and was with Paul during his imprisonment there ( 2 Timothy 4:11: which you had quoted). So, you can see that Luke, with many others (in the Church & on the 'mission field'), played a vital role in Paul's ministry & provided him with fellowship & encouragement. And of course Luke's medical knowledge, no doubt would have been useful to both Paul & maybe those in such need in their travels.
It has always astounded me about needs of church members that seem to be ignored; or perhaps are quietly helped on occasion by a few in private. I won't get into specifics as to those who are aided on the outside; I sometimes would get reimbursed other times not. We need to be careful though not to give money to those who are going to use it to perpetuate their sinful lifestyle. I have seen that situation before as well.
As to things such as building issues; I have seen poor planning investing in a building with foundation issues that a former pastor has had to fork out well beyond his initial assessments. Wisdom should be utilized; and obviously we don't need a "crystal cathedral" building. On the other hand; there are local churches such as the first one I attended some 40 years ago which had a pastor with medical expenses for his wife that weren't being covered despite rather wealthy people in the church very little money was given.
Our own investments. Wisdom is waning in this age. There are practical ways to invest; including within our own families that can not only be a legacy for them but also honor the Kingdom of God. There are good lessons to be learned in disciplining children early on; admittedly against a backdrop of a selfish; materialistic age.
I have known individuals with wealth who have been quite generous in giving; although it is common knowledge that well to do individuals tend to give less than others in proportion quite often. That seems to be different among those of the world with wealth these days and their many causes.
We need to remember that "He who is faithful with a few things can be trusted with much" ( Luke 16:10 not verbatum). Also there is scripture indicating faithfulness in earthly things and how it relates to Him trusting us with heavenly riches. Our reward is in reaping a great harvest of souls and relates to our faithfulness. Let us not hide our talents either.
Amen to that! I have said this before and this is what I believe about prayer:
To me, prayer is the means by which I express my submission to Gods will in whatever it is I am praying for.
What that means is when I petition the Lord in prayer and ask for His will to be done, I have the promise according to 1 John 5:14-16 that He will answer my prayer.
It doesn't matter what it is, He will answer if I ask according to His will. Now, I know that doesn't mean I'm always going to get what I expect, and my situation might even get worse, but it will be according to His will, and I must accept it and thank Him either way!
Often times people pray for things, whether it be for better health, better finances, new job, or whatever they are praying for, but in their prayer, the do not pray for His will to be done, and then wonder why their prayer was not answered.
But if we pray anything according to His will, that prayer will be heard and answered. And we have to submit and accept whatever His will is.
Here is Part 2:
After the one year separation, they had what is called the CHUPPAH which is the actual wedding ceremony. CHUPPAH is the Hebrew word for wedding, and KIDDUSHIM was the betrothal period.
Here's something else that is important to know. When the KIDDUSHIM takes place, they are married. The only way you can break the espousal, the engagement, is by divorce.
So this is how this whole thing plays out. Mary was his wife, even though the official wedding ceremony, the CHUPPAH had not yet taken place. They had already entered into the KIDDUSHIM, the engagement and time of purity.
Remember that is a one year period, but they are still married. Some of the more modern translations will say take Mary as your wife, and they will put "as" in italics to kind of give you something.
But they completely go against the whole KIDDUSHIM/CHUPPAH arrangement because as soon as you get engaged, their version of engagement, it took a divorce to break it.
But according to Jewish custom, once the KIDDUSHIM (1-year separation/time of purity) began, they were considered married, even though the marriage ceremony took place after the 1 year separation.
That is why Joseph was about to divorce her when he found out she was pregnant during the KIDDUSHIM period. They were considered married even before the CHUPPAH took place.
Hope this helps!
I am going to say yes, and here's why. In Matthew 1:18, we have the social circumstances surrounding Joseph and Mary.
It says when Mary his mother was espoused to Joseph, and in the Greek text, it is in the passive voice which means that you are receiving the action from somebody else.
This is very important and here's why.
Joseph and Mary were espoused, not because they were engaged or betrothed, or espoused to each other. The passive voice from the Greek means that they were brought together in an arrangement. They were the recipients of the betrothal.
Back in those days in Jewish tradition, contracts were made between two families for marriage. Girls were betrothed at the age of 12 and 13, and the boys were older. And they (Mary and Joseph) were betrothed together by the parents, not by their own choice.
It also says that "before they came together," which is a Greek word that means before their marriage was consummated. And the main verb is "she was found to be with child," again passive voice.
Here is how this worked back in traditional times, the time when all this was taking place:
They had what was called the KIDDUSHIM, which was the betrothal period. It's not exactly the same as our engagements. This is called KIDDUSHIM which means separate, or to separate.
And what happens is that when you became betrothed or espoused or engaged, you stayed separate for a whole year. This was called the time of purity to make sure that the woman wasn't pregnant.
Well, it was during this time of KIDDUSHIM that she was found to be pregnant.
During this whole year that they were separated, and even though they had not yet had a marriage ceremony, they were considered to be married.
I will continue in another post to further explain this.
The word tithe apparently is not found in the New Testament. The Book of Corinthians probably covers giving more than anywhere else. The clear principle from Ananias and Sapphira is NOT to commit something to the Lord then retract (as their deaths afterward attested). Where our treasure is our heart is also. ( Matthew 6:21). If we are to side with the "love of money" then we can either be cheapskates or give for causes that make us "feel good". Thus; a "prosperity gospel" church tickles people's ears and offers opulent settings for meetings and worship.
There is no sin in asking for a financial report for a church. Members should be concerned about 401c status and any compromising that a Pastor has made in order to retain that status. They should see how much is spent on entertainment; fancy building projects; etc. and what is spent on missions; for instance. Those who have jet planes themselves probably aren't as concerned about ministers that insist on such luxuries for themselves if they continue to attend such churches.
We should certainly consider what Paul said in scripture as to his often extreme need and apparent appalling giving where he said he was "robbing churches" ( 2 Cor. 11:8). Even good churches tend to give extremely low percentages of moneys to missions effort overseas from my experience. This has caused me to give to a few when able myself. This is not to boast; but again to emphasize the need. In my case I am supporting someone overseas busy working in the medical field in a new hospital struggling to find enough staff; as well as doing other ministry work on the side. Previously on the side some of us supported a young man in Uganda who had prison ministry; library ministry and other things going on. Generally; giving should also benefit real needs in a church. These days it seems there is more emphasis on outside needs from people more often than not not very reliable.
If I could see in someone's eyes or by their fruit that they were indeed possessed or using occult practices then I could make the case of demonic influence. Many other times it is the power of suggestion; or outright manipulation and fakery. God sometimes does also work dspite false teachers invoking Him (as in the case of Judas Iscariot when he went out with the 12 to do wonders apparently).
As to Christ not saying who it was; He was God in the flesh and also had a timeline for things to be revealed so that the crucifixion would occur exactly when and where it did. To avoid early martyrdom as it was He had to avert about 10 attempts on His life. He also used parables and weeded people out; not wanting followers who weren't going to count the cost. This also kept people out who didn't really recognize His divinity but saw all the benefits of a free meal; and perhaps healings as well (note when only 1 person of 10 came back to thank Him afterwards falling at His feet).
Hope that clarifies things somewhat.
1. You wrote "or something that actually IS caused by demons;"
We should be extremely careful and avoid call a "healing" as something done by a demon, isn't that what the Pharisees were saying about Jesus? There is always the danger of blaspheming the Holly Spirit. It is better to say that a healing may be fake rather than it is caused by demons. The latter is risky.
2. You wrote "It is important to remember also that Christ would tell many especially early on in His ministry NOT to tell anyone who He was." What was the reason for that? One (maybe not the only one) is stated in Mark 2:45. "But he(the man who was healed) went out, and began to publish it much, and to blaze abroad the matter, insomuch that Jesus COULD NO MORE OPENLY ENTER INTO A CITY, but was without in desert places: and they came to him from every quarter."
GBU
"So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon(John, Mary, Elen, Tom, ... write your name) son of Jonas, LOVEST THOU ME MORE THAN THESE(other things in your life)?"
"Now there was leaning on Jesus' bosom one of his disciples, WHOM JESUS LOVED"
John 19:26
"When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, WHOM HE LOVED, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!"
John 21:7
"Therefore that disciple WHOM JESUS LOVED saith unto Peter, It is the Lord ..."
Did Jesus love only John? No, not only him, He loves all people.
Did He love John more than the others? It doesn't say that.
But John really understood that Jesus loves him, for God Love is. Do you?
"Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
And Thomas answered and said unto him, MY LORD AND MY GOD."
Gog Bless.
.....What i am trying to tell you is this New Covenant is tied into the Garden of our hearts...This tree of Knowledge is an intimacy...Thats y Jesus says he has to KNOW us...And thats the only way we can be bornagain of an incorruptible seed which is the contents of that book/That tree of KNOWLEDGE...The only way that good seed can be sown in our heart is thru an intimacy...Thats when he Knows us...The only way we can ever KNOW right from wrong in self control of the flesh is thru this Tree of KNOWLEDGE...That New COVENANT Is by Being bornagain of an incoruptible seed THE LIVING WORD...The biblical definition of Knowledge is an intimacy...Not about fun and games or Church attendence... or Carnal knowledge But an intimacy where that good seed is sown in our hearts initiating a heavenly birth of Christ in us That Child of PROMISE...The H.G....Thats y the prophets saw all the world in travail and birth pains... Jeremiah 30:6...A time of Jacobs troubles, Jacob was the 3 rd person in the Abrahamic trinity...And that Child of promise is the H.G. the 3 rd Person in the heavenly Trinity...The gift of God from the leaves of the trees... Rev 22:16...For the healing of the nations...Our Child birth but the Child is the H.G. That which is born of the spirit is spirit which is the H.G. That Child of Promise...We are not under that old covenant any more...Now the very Kingdom of God is gonna be with in us...Thus the 2 trees are gonna be with in us...Its our hearts that is the Garden of God where that good seed is sown...The bridegroom wants to sow his seed in our hearts which is the living WORD...The leaves of the tree of KNOWLEDGE...And Isaiah said that this KNOWLEDGE is gonna cover the earth as the waters cover the seas. Is.11:9 k
You were speaking of his free will, I see it now.
Thanks for your reply.
God bless.
Now I see you what you are suggesting.
"Adam purposely bit of the forbidden fruit so he would be in the same condition as Eve.
That is a view that some hold.
Who knows?
The view is that Adam knew exactly what he was doing. He rather chose to join her in her predicament than to be without her.
They draw this from
1 Timothy 2:11-15 "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
AND ADAM WAS NOT DECEIVED, BUT THE WOMAN BEING DECEIVED WAS IN THE TRANSGRESSION.
Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety".
Again, Who knows?
God bless.
What role did Luke play in Paul's ministry?
Jeremiah received the Word from God, that he was separated (set apart) from pre-birth & ordained to be God's prophet for that time in history ( Jeremiah 1:5). This was during the reign of King Josiah & his prophetical work went on till Judah's last reigning king, King Zedekiah - at which time Babylon invaded Palestine, occupied Jerusalem & captives taken back to Babylon.
The Book of Jeremiah is Jeremiah's account of God's dealings with him, Judah, their captors, and the other nations. Even though Jeremiah was reluctant to do as commanded by God, he nevertheless did not fail to bring out the prophetical message to the people. For over forty years, he faithfully proclaimed God's stern Judgement on apostate Judah, all the while Jeremiah had to endure fierce opposition, beatings & imprisonment ( Jeremiah 11:18-23; 12:6; 18:18; 20:1-3; 26:1-24; 37:11-38:28).
Even though warnings against sin & coming judgement are uppermost throughout the book, God still sent out messages of hope & future restoration. Predictions of a coming Messiah ( Jeremiah 23:5,6); the duration of the Babylonian captivity ( Jeremiah 25:11); and the revelation of the New Covenant ( Jeremiah 31:31-34) are the bright lights seen in this book.
First, thanks for your thoughts. Your agreement with some of my views, such as there was a DECISION by God, indicates something quite surprising in Genesis that I cannot untangle yet.
In my view, there are two questions. It seems Adam COULD have eaten of the tree of life either prior to the tree of knowledge or after he became a man, but prior to God's discovery.
At the time of Adam's eating of the fruit, he knew two things:
1. Eve would surely die
2. If He ate, he too would surely die.
The LORD God said so.
Yet, even still, Adam at of the fruit. While the Bible does not express motivation, I state that a consistent and supported interpretation is that Adam decided that he would rather bind his fate to his other half, and die, than to have Eve die while he lived.
To me, that is a very beautiful thought, and it makes life meaningful, that EVEN with death, the alternative of living a life without love is WORSE than living life with it, and dying. That the life of half a man is not meaningful, and ONLY with the union with woman, is life worth it.
It is my view there are elements to Genesis that support this notion. And furthermore, there can be nothing that gives solace to our mortal lives than that realization. That LOVE is more important even than eternal death.
I don't think that Adam and Eve ate from the tree of life. Why, we do not know. Maybe it was hard to get to or did not seem attractive or had some other barrier.
I do think that God knew all that would happen in the garden before He even created anything as He is omniscient and nothing is hidden from Him. He does not learn anything new nor does He find out things as time passes. He knows all that will ever be and every possibility that could ever be. So, nothing surprises Him. In this all-knowingness, God created everything with knowledge of all that would be and happen, all of the thoughts and actions of mankind since before He created. He knew every sin we would commit, every motivation, every prayer we would speak to Him, every tear that we would shed, every act of love we would do for Him and others, every disaster and cataclysmic event He would bring into history. Awesome to think about, really.
If God learned new knowledge that He did not always know then this would indicate a change in Him, and the Scriptures clearly say that he does not change ever. He can never increase in any of His attributes or have diminish in any of them. He cannot do anything that He had not already knew He would do. This immutability means that He is infinitely complete and perfect in every way. He cannot get any better than what He always is. He cannot add any new aspect to His character nor subtract any aspect of His character because His nature is full and He is in need of nothing else. He is self-existing and self-sufficient and self-satisfied in Himself at all times and from eternity to eternity.
Dante, I say these things because when I think about them, I stand in awe of Him and humbly worship Him. i once again recall his excellencies and find His infinite perfection very comforting knowing that He will always be whom he will be, as YHWH means.
Hope this helps clear up my prior post.
would mean Mary Conceived around sometime early April,standard American time
at that time,maybe in April,Elizabeth was 6 mths pregnant
3 mths.later would mean John might of been born round the latter part of July
You are right in saying God didn't command Adam not to eat of the tree of life, He commanded they couldn't eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil as mentioned here in Genesis 2:16-17.
"And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."
But how do we know that they didn't eat of the tree of life BEFORE they disobeyed?
Here's all we have that is written.
Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, THE MAN IS BECOME AS ONE OF US, ((TO KNOW GOOD AND EVIL)): and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Perhaps God forbidden them from eating of the tree of life AFTER their disobedience.
The results of their disobedience is that they knew they were naked and they tried to cover themselves. Now naked is also used throughout scripture to mean " Sin exposed" Here's one of several.
Revelation 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
These garments is the covering of the blood of Christ. "White robes"
Christ was ordained to come into the world before the world began, to be the sacrificial Lamb. For Adam too!
Scipture doesn't say Adam "BECAME" naked after he disobeyed.
Scripture says he KNEW he was naked after he disobeyed.
See here ;
Genesis 3:10-11 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
And he said, WHO TOLD THEE THAT THOU WAST NAKED? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
I believe the issue is what would he do with that knowledge!
They tried to cover up their guilt and shame with the product of their own efforts. This may have been the first attempt at a works salvation.
Just my thoughts.
GB.