Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Do you notice who's doing the building? The Lord himself! PRECIOUS STONE!
Our own efforts can only build straw houses. ( Wood hay and stubble)
The Apostles lais the foundation in which we are to build upon.
Jesus is the Cornerstone. ( In building the Cornerstone is the first and most important part of the foundation. The rest of the building depends on It's perfection. afterwards the foundation is layed. (THE APOSTLES)
Then the comes the building. (US.)
Once the building has started there is no need of another foundation. This is what Christ was saying in Matthew 16:18. " upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
HE was speaking of himself referencing Peters answer. ( Matthew 16:16 "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Ephesians 2:19-22. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
And are built upon the FOUNDATION OF THE APOSTLES AND PROPHETS, Jesus Christ himself being the chief CORNER STONE;
In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
In whom YE ALSO ARE BUILDED TOGETHER FOR AN HABITATION of God through the Spirit.
Also see.
1 Corinthians 3:10-11 (KJV) According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Alex1939...The reason Jesus has to know us is b/c we have to be bornagain of his incorruptible seed...even by the words of God that New Covenant IN HIS BLOOD...My lil Children of whom i travail in birth till Christ is formed in you...Thats y he has to know us so that Christ might be formed in us...Truth is the sower of that good seed is Christ the Bridegroom...Thats y he is saying whosoever receiveth one such child in my name receiveth me...And that good seed are the words of God...And he that soweth that good seed is Christ the son of man...The bridegroom...It all goes back to the great Promise when God swore by his very self that Christ wd be multiplied as the stars of heaven...Thus the need for a sower and his seed but it had to be a heavenly seed ...As we have borne the the image of the earthy we must also bear the image of the heavenly...Which is the H.G. the multiplication of very God as Jesus said to whom the word came ( his seed ) it made them Gods...And the scripture cannot be broken...When he breathe on them he was propagating very God which was the H.G. That Child of PROMISE...Which is Spirit as that which is born of the spirt is spirit...As God is spirit..Remember Jesus said the good seed are the Children of the Kingdom.
But she halted...As Micah 5:3 said he wd give them up till the woman is in travail and birth pains...Then the remnant of his brethren will come and be a sign to Israel and the world...We are still in that time of desolation when no man can work...Jesus said i am the light of the world but the night comes when no man can work...While the bridegroom tarried they all slumbered and slept..But on the 3 rd day he made a New Wine which was better then the 1st wine...Which is when that book is opened on the last day as God told Daniel...Thats when Jeremiah saw all men in travail and birth pains... Jeremiah 30:6...For the babes and sucklings that are able to worship God with a perfect praise.Which are the words of the book...The Womans Children
The verses you quote need to be understood in the context of everything the Bible declares about the nature of our salvation.
I'm sorry Adam, but you are proclaiming a gospel of works. And if that is our gospel, we are still under the law, and subject to all the penalties associated with disobedience to the law.
If God has saved us and given us our resurrected soul, it means He has paid for all of our sins. Our obedience is then the EVIDENCE of our salvation, not the CAUSE nor the MEANS. We are no longer under the penalty of the law. Because Christ as our substitute has fully paid that penalty.
God has written the Bible in a way so that if we insist on isolating certain verses, and ignoring others that bear on the question, we will get ourselves into serious trouble. We have only come to truth, when we can harmonize all of the verses that bear on a question.
Rather than take one part of an argument perhaos looking at it as a whole wouid help you come to a different conclusion.
Given so many ' versions' of the Bible out there all boasting in their " better understanding" etc yet proving quite the opposite has led to the people of God all like sheep going their own way having their own private interpretations . There is a lack of understanding because men are subjecting the Word of God to their intellects rather than subjecting their thinking to the Word of God and the Spirit of God .
Even if you was right as to there being no more Apostles after Paul . The church still is not following him who in turn was following Christ .
True there are many " little children who's sins are forgiven and who know the zFather .
There are much less of " young men the word of God dwellers in you richly and you have overcome the wicked one".
I would suggest there are fewer still who " know Him who is from the beginning "
In truth there is a unity in the church but it is that unity of all being inside but the Lord is outside knocking .
The promise however is to those who have ears towhead AND open the door"
There is a unity of the need to being BORN again . But very little it seems on what comes after .
Much is preached on the milk of the Word . But not much meat .
We have made the wandering in the wilderness for 40 years the Christian norm .
Jordon is death and heaven the promised land .
Not so.
It only took them just over two years to get from Egypt to the promised land .
They did not enter in days Paul because of their unbelief .
Yet two who were ready who could have gone in who could not go in still did so 40 years later .
Paul warns the church not to be like them who entered ot in because of unbelief .
Nor to be like Eve who was deceived .
The unity of the church is to the lowest common denominator . It is not that unity of John 17 yet.
More on this important topic concerning our works ans righteousness.
Romans 10:10. Says 'For with the heart man believeth UNTO "righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."
Ephesians 2:10 (KJV) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus UNTO 'good works", which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
The righteousness is not of the law as mentioned and the works is not the working of the law. 2 Corinthians 3:3-4. Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
This is performed by Christ being in you and he will abide in you until the end.
Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it UNTIL THE DAY OF JESUS CHRIST:
1 John 5:10-12. He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
AND THIS IS THE RECORD, THAT GOD HATH GIVEN TO US ETERNAL LIFE, AND THIS LIFE IS IN HIS SON.
He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
We either have Jesus or ww don't!
If we have Jesus we have life and that life is sealed and eternal.
I love the way the scripture plainly put it. "GOD HATH GIVEN TO US ETERNAL LIFE, AND THIS LIFE IS IN HIS SON.
Ok, I don't share that particular belief with you because of what the Bible says:
Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"
Matthew 24:13 "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."
Hebrews 10:36 "For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise."
Gal 5:4 "ye are fallen from grace."
Matthew 10:22 "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved."
"Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him." James 1:12 KJV
"Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory." 2 Timothy 2:10 KJV
Salvation is conditional upon following Christ. Those who hate or don't follow Christ aren't going to be saved, based on what the Bible says.
John 14:15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments."
Matthew 7:21-23
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."
I don't know how some can read these verses and twist them into meaning anything other than what they mean. This should be prayed about very deeply.
Matthew 12:32 "...but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."
So, God clearly tells us we will NOT be forgiven if we commit this sin and what I hear you saying is that we WILL. Both are not true. One is false. I tend to believe what God says, not what man says. Because God already said if you blaspheme the Holy Ghost you will NOT be forgiven then that is the truth. That makes anything contrary to that false and in some cases a blatant lie.
But maybe people don't like that verse and want to discredit it. Well, here's another then:
Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"
But I believe this misunderstanding has 2 dimensions. One is when we are "saved" and the other is "eternal security." The Bible doesn't say we're saved before we're judged. This is something Christians for years have been mentally "filling in the blanks" on but if you read carefully God never once said we will be instantly saved the second we believe. If you have a verse claiming that, please share it. But I can assure you for every verse you share, there's probably twice as many saying otherwise.
1 Peter 1:13 "...hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;"
"Hope" not, guarantee, but "hope." Grace "that is to be brought" future tense. It doesn't say now, or past tense.
1 Peter 1:5 - "...salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."
This refutes man's claims of being saved now and can go to adult clubs and do whatever they want. That's exactly what satan is trying to convince people of. Very clever deception.
1 Cor 9:24-27 "run the race", not the 'race was already won.'
Matthew 24:13 "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."
Hebrews 10:36.
Where is your evidence of the opposite of Gods words? God bless.
Alex1939...Brenda good question...This wedding hall is the Kingdom of God and the friend that has no wedding garment is the Tare that satan has put there...Remember Jesus said to let them grow together till the Harvest...The wheat and the Tares...The Tares cannot have a wedding garment simply b/c he is satan's seed...That is gonna be burnt in the end...But the wheat and the Tares are friends simply b/c they live in the same body...Till the Harvest...They are the 2 men in the field...One taken and one left....An old friend that eats at my table has lifted up his heel against me...Which was Judas a type of satan...The Tare Satans seed.
....The Wheat is a baby Christ that New Creature..The H.G. The manchild that is gonna rule all nations...Simply b/c the sower of that good seed is Christ the bridegroom...Our wedding garment is Christ as the manchild..The H.G. THAT HAS TO BE BORN IN US...Whosoever receiveth one such child in my name receiveth me...She brought forth a man Child that is gonna rule all nations...Nothin availeth anything in Christ Jesus but a New CREATURE Which is the H.G. that has to be born in us via the seed of Christ and his NEW Covenant that he wrote with his own blood...The manchild which is the H.G. is the only thing that allows us to enter the Kingdom...Unless you receive the Kingdom of God as a lil Child you will in no wise enter there in.
....One thing that is for sure The Kingdom does not come till the BOOK is opened in Rev 5:9 ...As God tells Daniel..And after the book is opened then John saw a number that no man cd number of all ppl from around the world of all nations...And Rev. 12:10 says now is come Salvation and the Kingdom of our God and his Christ ( the H.G. is the manchild...Which is the that New Covenant in his blood and the Kingdom.
.....This N.C. is a different story then the O.C....While we were yet sinners Christ died for us...And i was found of them that sought me not and i was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.
I thought it was necessary to bring clarity to a portion of my previous.
When I said Gigi this is the example I have given when one trample over the blood of Christ. Hebrews 10:29.
I was referring to another thread where I said to act as tho Christ blood shed on the cross is inadequate and try to add our filthy rags to His finish work it's like what is mentioned here in Hebrews 10:28-28.
I also would like to add.
Hebrews 10:20-24. By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
And having an high priest over the house of God;
LET US DRAW NEAR WITH A TRUE HEART IN FULL ASSURANCE OF FAITH, HAVING OUR HEARTS SPRINKLED FROM AN EVIL CONSCIENCE, AND OUR BODIES WASHED WITH PURE WATER.
LET US HOLD FAST THE PROFESSION OF OUR FAITH WITHOUT WAVERING; (FOR HE IS FAITHFUL THAT PROMISED;)
And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
Perhaps you may have glanced over my comment. I address 2 Ti 3:16.
The words "for" and "to" mean different things.
It's all for us yes (as I've already said) You're only half right. The other half is only some of it is written specifically to us and is about us. That's Romans to Philemon. The rest of it is God dealing with Israel.
I also believe in eternal security, or as you put it, "Once saved, always saved."
Ephesians 1:14 would also add to the verse you have shared. It says, "Which (or who) is the earnest (or guarantee) of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
It's after we heard, after we believed, we were sealed. We are sealed with the Holy Spirit. He doesn't give us a seal. He is the seal.
He's the mark of ownership and He has sealed the believer so that no spiritual force or otherwise can penetrate their spirit. They've been sealed by the Holy Spirit and filled with the Spirit of Christ.
It's nice to know that in the midst of our weaknesses that the presence of God's Spirit is our guarantee, until the redemption of the purchased possession.
Since redemption means purchased, it is making reference to the coming of Christ, when our redemption will be realized.
We've been purchased and we're sitting at the will call window, so to speak. He hasn't picked us up yet. But when Christ comes, He's going to come for the purchased possession. That's every believer.
Ephesians 4:30 tells us that we are sealed with the Spirit of God "until" Christ comes.
So every believer is preserved. We're being kept for Christ at His coming. That's our guarantee that we are being preserved for Him.
We have eternal life in Christ Jesus. I have eternal life, not based on my human performance, but because Christ lives in me, and He is eternal.
Gigi, take the time to ponder Exodus 32 and compare it to what you have written in this thread. I agree that God's character is the same yesterday, today and forever. That He knows the hearts of man. He knows how things end up, but when it comes to the extreme, sinful "actions of man" it comes to me that it surprises him how evil man can become. It also seemed like he didn't expect Nineveh to repent (an extreme action), otherwise he would have told Jonah that I am just going to tell them I will destroy them and they will repent and I won't have to do it. It seems like He didn't expect Ahab to repent (an extreme action), so He changed the judgement against him so it would not occur in Ahab's lifetime. God's anger in Exodus 32 was so great that Moses had to remind him of His covenant with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. In the account of Sodom and Gomorrah the Lord said "I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know." Just some things to ponder.
The Bible is crystal clear that in our unsaved condition, all of mankind following the sin of Adam is "DEAD in trespasses and sins" and "in BONDAGE to sin" and "SLAVES of satan". And that "there is NONE righteous, no NOT ONE", there is NONE that seaketh after God"
Unsaved man does not have a free will in any spiritual sense. We cannot and will not seek God with OUR WHOLE HEART until God gives us a NEW HEART.
ALL scripture from Genesis to Revelation is "The Very Word of God" and is for us TODAY.
2 Tim 3:16,17 ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness; That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto good works.
Who was in the beginning and mentioned in Genesis chapter 1.
It is of no profit to anyone to take one verse and build a mountain upon it .
For if you try and reason all of scripture by the one verse you will fall into error .
But rather we are to see one verse in the light of all the scriptures .
The devil tempted eve by giving only half truth ,land adding to the Word of God;"not" and thus changed the truth into a lie .
" thou shalt not surely die"
The devil tempting Jesus in the wilderness took also the scriptures and left stuff out or out of context .Thus the devil uses the scriptures to tempt the people of God .
Which is why God in his infinite wisdom has given not on,y the body of truth ,the scriptures but also the Spirit of truth to " lead us into all truth ".
The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of wisdom ,the Spirit of truth . The Spirit of Christ , The fear of God , and three other. "The seven spirits of God " Not that God has seven Spirits . But even as the 7 branched oil lamp in the tabernacle was made of one piece of gold and having seven branches it was nevertheless one .
When he Holy Spirit came on the day of Pentecost , " IT" meaning one , fell on them all as separate flames as of tongues.
Not that the Holy Spirit is an ' it' or impersonal something or other . For all of scripture teaches that He is a Person and one of The Trinity of God three or persons but ONE God .
We do not need additions to the Holy Bible nor indeed do we need others who have added ,subtracted and mistranslated .
For the scriptures teach " The Word of God is the seed "
A seed has this characteristic . It is not the tree or the fruit . But it does have everything that is needed and nothing that is not needed to reproduce the fruit .
You can indeed mix a horse with a donkey and you will get a mule . But a mule cannot reproduce itself .
You can indeed mix truth with error and you will get something . But it too will produce not
alex1939...Brenda good question...But let us remember what Jesus did at Calvary,..He made a New Covenant in his blood...When he had taken the cup he said this is the New Covenant in my blood drink ye all of it...And if i be lifted up ( his blood ) i will draw ALL MEN unto me... Jeremiah 31:34...This is the Covenant i will make with the house of Israel and Judah I will put my words/laws in their hearts and MINDS and they shall shall ALL KNOW ME from the least to the greatest...And the Gentiles come into this Blood Covenant simply b/c if ye be in Christ then are you Abraham seed and are heirs according to the Promises...God so loved the world.
.....Many are called but few are Chosen...The only 1 Chosen is the H.G. that Gift of God to all the world..And is the Israel of God...But the book has to be opened 1st ....ok
Perhaps it's that belief that has the church in so much trouble .
For having reduced our " so great Salvation" to being but BORN again . We have made the wandering in the wilderness for 40 years as the Christian norm. Jordan as death and the promised land as heaven .
But getting out of Egypt was but being a type of being born again . By the blood of a lamb ,the Word of God ( to Abraham) and the power of God .
But we are not only saved from but saved to .
And the two years or so passing through the wilderness was but ' boot camp' . Where the children of Isreal learnt not to live by bread alone but by every Word that proceeded from the mouth of God .Ir were meant to .
Did not Paul warn the church not to be like them who entered not in because of unbelief ?
Nor be deceived as Eve was? Unbelief is not just not believing God its believing another message .
An Apostle of God is not ordained by man at all ,but ordained by God .
The true pattern of an Apostle has to be Paul and while we the church might never get another Paul in some measure every true Apostle must follow the pattern.
In zeal ( with knowledge"), sound doctrine , care of the church , full of the Spirit , outreach ,church building .etc .
I think perhaps all those ministries of God as listed in Ephesians needs must be ordained by God .
And all the ' qualifications' in the world are no substitutes for the anointing and blessing of God .
Moreover the true born children of God are not called to blindly follow even a real one . But as each of those ministries are given to the church( to perfect the church and get the Bride ready till " we all come to a unity of THE faith ."
Then to have such a unity there must also be a unity of understanding . For faith in God comes by understanding the Word of God .Given the propensity of many ,either to blindly follow any one who can give a ' good performance' on the one hand or else like sheep each going his own way with preach having their own interpretation of the scriptures , any true Apostle has got his work cut out and won't be popular with the many .
It is true that if God had saved us we are eternally secure. But we must remember what it means to be "saved".
If God has saved us, it means that every sin that we have ever committed or will ever commit has been paid for by the Lord Jesus Christ. And we will never "again" experience the "judgment" of God which is eternal destruction.
If we have truly become saved, i.e. Born Again, it means that God has given us a New Soul, a Resurrected Soul, in which we will have an earnest ongoing desire to be obedient to what the Bible teaches, both in doctrine and in practice. There will be a huge change in our attitude and behavior toward sin.
We do still have a body that lusts after sin so we do commit sin and will never be perfectly obedient to God in our whole personality until we receive our Resurrected Spiritual Body on the Last Day.
God commands us to examine ourselves to see if we have become saved. To strive to enter in at the straight gate. And if we are not certain of our salvation we can cry to God for His Mercy in the very real hope that He might save us, if that would be His will.
A beautiful passage describing God's action in saving His Children is Eze 36:24-33. Notice that all of the action is God's action.
I agree , it's very worrying . Christ talks about the deceitfulness of riches , that's a very powerful comment from our Saviour and one that I try to keep in my heart . I think that Paul warns us against the belief that 'Godliness is gain ' . All of us , myself included , need to watch our attitude towards money , money is a very powerful tool that the devil can make use of , to our detriment .
In my opinion its like watching a driver speed toward a cliff and ignore warning signs to exit now, cliff ahead. Flashing lights, sirens, countless warnings all ignored because of a belief that the signs don't really mean it. The Bible is full of warnings after warnings to everyone, both believers and non-believers. It's full of challenges, parables about how most people will go to hell. Matt 7:21 should scare some who consider themselves Christians but are inactive and not following Christ's teachings. The Bible says to fear God. It says it many, many times. Christianity is a walk, an action of following Jesus's footsteps.
But other Christians seem to have been convinced that none of that matters in the Bible- that its all for nothing, because of the lie that you don't have control anyway. That's the same argument that homosexuals make- that they're the way they are, don't have choices, and they can't help but sin and how dare you tell them otherwise, because sin is part of their identity. Same argument could be used to justify other gross sins and criminal acts.
Since satan is the father of all lies, and since there's only one truth, which is satan most likely behind: that he's deceiving christians into obeying God "more than necessary" or that he's deceiving christians into believing they don't need to obey God at all?
Calvinism seems to be the ultimate have your cake and eat it too. Sin is fun and most Christians would absolutely love the opportunity to go out and commit huge sins with zero consequence and still feel 100% secure in your salvation. But unfortunately, even though we can only be saved by grace, that doesn't mean we shouldn't put 100% effort into following Christ as a real Christ follower! A common false assumption is that obeying God somehow automatically means you're trying to "earn" heaven. Straw man argument. The Bible already addressed grace and obedience in Romans 6, so its shocking to see it ignored. James 2 is hugely ignored, like cryptonite to some believers. Pray deeply about this, about the truth, that no souls are lost from believing lies.
Hebrews 3:1 tells us that Jesus is our Apostle and High Priest. So, He is the only apostle among us today. He is the Apostle and Priests of all believers. Otherwise, all of His apostles, including Paul have died, having left their inspired writings for us to learn from them of the knowledge of God in But now, our Apostle is Jesus Christ, the Author and the Finisher of our faith. The Holy Spirit "takes what is His (Jesus) and reveals it to us".
Hi Alleylee. I agree with what Ryan has shared with you about the apostolic position ending with the Apostle Paul. However, there seems to be a reference to Paul's companion, Barnabas, also being referred to as an apostle ( Acts 14:14). Even as the word, 'apostle' (in Greek, 'apostolos') means 'a messenger or one sent on a mission', which gives this word a more general meaning, one should be careful in seeking an appointment to apostleship. Today, the word 'missionary', or 'servant of the Lord, a preacher of the Gospel', may better fit the ministry of carrying the Good News to others/other nations. The Apostolic Church is one type of Fellowship that fosters the positions of apostles, prophets, etc. You may or may not find yourself at variance with their other beliefs concerning the Trinity, Holy Spirit baptism, falling from Grace, etc.
Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Do you notice who's doing the building? The Lord himself! PRECIOUS STONE!
Our own efforts can only build straw houses. ( Wood hay and stubble)
The Apostles lais the foundation in which we are to build upon.
Jesus is the Cornerstone. ( In building the Cornerstone is the first and most important part of the foundation. The rest of the building depends on It's perfection. afterwards the foundation is layed. (THE APOSTLES)
Then the comes the building. (US.)
Once the building has started there is no need of another foundation. This is what Christ was saying in Matthew 16:18. " upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
HE was speaking of himself referencing Peters answer. ( Matthew 16:16 "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Ephesians 2:19-22. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
And are built upon the FOUNDATION OF THE APOSTLES AND PROPHETS, Jesus Christ himself being the chief CORNER STONE;
In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
In whom YE ALSO ARE BUILDED TOGETHER FOR AN HABITATION of God through the Spirit.
Also see.
1 Corinthians 3:10-11 (KJV) According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
God bless.
But she halted...As Micah 5:3 said he wd give them up till the woman is in travail and birth pains...Then the remnant of his brethren will come and be a sign to Israel and the world...We are still in that time of desolation when no man can work...Jesus said i am the light of the world but the night comes when no man can work...While the bridegroom tarried they all slumbered and slept..But on the 3 rd day he made a New Wine which was better then the 1st wine...Which is when that book is opened on the last day as God told Daniel...Thats when Jeremiah saw all men in travail and birth pains... Jeremiah 30:6...For the babes and sucklings that are able to worship God with a perfect praise.Which are the words of the book...The Womans Children
I'm sorry Adam, but you are proclaiming a gospel of works. And if that is our gospel, we are still under the law, and subject to all the penalties associated with disobedience to the law.
If God has saved us and given us our resurrected soul, it means He has paid for all of our sins. Our obedience is then the EVIDENCE of our salvation, not the CAUSE nor the MEANS. We are no longer under the penalty of the law. Because Christ as our substitute has fully paid that penalty.
God has written the Bible in a way so that if we insist on isolating certain verses, and ignoring others that bear on the question, we will get ourselves into serious trouble. We have only come to truth, when we can harmonize all of the verses that bear on a question.
Indeed if you want to witness to any Jew it would be worth anyones time to study well that letter .
Given so many ' versions' of the Bible out there all boasting in their " better understanding" etc yet proving quite the opposite has led to the people of God all like sheep going their own way having their own private interpretations . There is a lack of understanding because men are subjecting the Word of God to their intellects rather than subjecting their thinking to the Word of God and the Spirit of God .
Even if you was right as to there being no more Apostles after Paul . The church still is not following him who in turn was following Christ .
True there are many " little children who's sins are forgiven and who know the zFather .
There are much less of " young men the word of God dwellers in you richly and you have overcome the wicked one".
I would suggest there are fewer still who " know Him who is from the beginning "
In truth there is a unity in the church but it is that unity of all being inside but the Lord is outside knocking .
The promise however is to those who have ears towhead AND open the door"
There is a unity of the need to being BORN again . But very little it seems on what comes after .
Much is preached on the milk of the Word . But not much meat .
We have made the wandering in the wilderness for 40 years the Christian norm .
Jordon is death and heaven the promised land .
Not so.
It only took them just over two years to get from Egypt to the promised land .
They did not enter in days Paul because of their unbelief .
Yet two who were ready who could have gone in who could not go in still did so 40 years later .
Paul warns the church not to be like them who entered ot in because of unbelief .
Nor to be like Eve who was deceived .
The unity of the church is to the lowest common denominator . It is not that unity of John 17 yet.
We are a prodigal church since the Reformation .
Romans 10:10. Says 'For with the heart man believeth UNTO "righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."
Ephesians 2:10 (KJV) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus UNTO 'good works", which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
The righteousness is not of the law as mentioned and the works is not the working of the law. 2 Corinthians 3:3-4. Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
This is performed by Christ being in you and he will abide in you until the end.
Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it UNTIL THE DAY OF JESUS CHRIST:
1 John 5:10-12. He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
AND THIS IS THE RECORD, THAT GOD HATH GIVEN TO US ETERNAL LIFE, AND THIS LIFE IS IN HIS SON.
He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
We either have Jesus or ww don't!
If we have Jesus we have life and that life is sealed and eternal.
I love the way the scripture plainly put it. "GOD HATH GIVEN TO US ETERNAL LIFE, AND THIS LIFE IS IN HIS SON.
God bless.
Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"
Matthew 24:13 "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."
Hebrews 10:36 "For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise."
Gal 5:4 "ye are fallen from grace."
Matthew 10:22 "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved."
"Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him." James 1:12 KJV
"Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory." 2 Timothy 2:10 KJV
Salvation is conditional upon following Christ. Those who hate or don't follow Christ aren't going to be saved, based on what the Bible says.
John 14:15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments."
Matthew 7:21-23
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."
I don't know how some can read these verses and twist them into meaning anything other than what they mean. This should be prayed about very deeply.
God bless.
God said this:
Matthew 12:32 "...but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."
So, God clearly tells us we will NOT be forgiven if we commit this sin and what I hear you saying is that we WILL. Both are not true. One is false. I tend to believe what God says, not what man says. Because God already said if you blaspheme the Holy Ghost you will NOT be forgiven then that is the truth. That makes anything contrary to that false and in some cases a blatant lie.
But maybe people don't like that verse and want to discredit it. Well, here's another then:
Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"
But I believe this misunderstanding has 2 dimensions. One is when we are "saved" and the other is "eternal security." The Bible doesn't say we're saved before we're judged. This is something Christians for years have been mentally "filling in the blanks" on but if you read carefully God never once said we will be instantly saved the second we believe. If you have a verse claiming that, please share it. But I can assure you for every verse you share, there's probably twice as many saying otherwise.
1 Peter 1:13 "...hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;"
"Hope" not, guarantee, but "hope." Grace "that is to be brought" future tense. It doesn't say now, or past tense.
1 Peter 1:5 - "...salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."
This refutes man's claims of being saved now and can go to adult clubs and do whatever they want. That's exactly what satan is trying to convince people of. Very clever deception.
1 Cor 9:24-27 "run the race", not the 'race was already won.'
Matthew 24:13 "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."
Hebrews 10:36.
Where is your evidence of the opposite of Gods words? God bless.
....The Wheat is a baby Christ that New Creature..The H.G. The manchild that is gonna rule all nations...Simply b/c the sower of that good seed is Christ the bridegroom...Our wedding garment is Christ as the manchild..The H.G. THAT HAS TO BE BORN IN US...Whosoever receiveth one such child in my name receiveth me...She brought forth a man Child that is gonna rule all nations...Nothin availeth anything in Christ Jesus but a New CREATURE Which is the H.G. that has to be born in us via the seed of Christ and his NEW Covenant that he wrote with his own blood...The manchild which is the H.G. is the only thing that allows us to enter the Kingdom...Unless you receive the Kingdom of God as a lil Child you will in no wise enter there in.
....One thing that is for sure The Kingdom does not come till the BOOK is opened in Rev 5:9 ...As God tells Daniel..And after the book is opened then John saw a number that no man cd number of all ppl from around the world of all nations...And Rev. 12:10 says now is come Salvation and the Kingdom of our God and his Christ ( the H.G. is the manchild...Which is the that New Covenant in his blood and the Kingdom.
.....This N.C. is a different story then the O.C....While we were yet sinners Christ died for us...And i was found of them that sought me not and i was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.
When I said Gigi this is the example I have given when one trample over the blood of Christ. Hebrews 10:29.
I was referring to another thread where I said to act as tho Christ blood shed on the cross is inadequate and try to add our filthy rags to His finish work it's like what is mentioned here in Hebrews 10:28-28.
I also would like to add.
Hebrews 10:20-24. By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
And having an high priest over the house of God;
LET US DRAW NEAR WITH A TRUE HEART IN FULL ASSURANCE OF FAITH, HAVING OUR HEARTS SPRINKLED FROM AN EVIL CONSCIENCE, AND OUR BODIES WASHED WITH PURE WATER.
LET US HOLD FAST THE PROFESSION OF OUR FAITH WITHOUT WAVERING; (FOR HE IS FAITHFUL THAT PROMISED;)
And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
We can be sure!!
We'd be in unity if you all understood rightly dividing the word of truth. It's right there in scripture.
How do you not see it? 2 Tim 2:15
Rom 11:13 /// 2 Tim 1:9-11
Paul is our apostle ordained by revelation of Jesus Christ which is part of the mystery that God kept secret.
The words "for" and "to" mean different things.
It's all for us yes (as I've already said) You're only half right. The other half is only some of it is written specifically to us and is about us. That's Romans to Philemon. The rest of it is God dealing with Israel.
Paul is the apostle **to** the gentiles.
I also believe in eternal security, or as you put it, "Once saved, always saved."
Ephesians 1:14 would also add to the verse you have shared. It says, "Which (or who) is the earnest (or guarantee) of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
It's after we heard, after we believed, we were sealed. We are sealed with the Holy Spirit. He doesn't give us a seal. He is the seal.
He's the mark of ownership and He has sealed the believer so that no spiritual force or otherwise can penetrate their spirit. They've been sealed by the Holy Spirit and filled with the Spirit of Christ.
It's nice to know that in the midst of our weaknesses that the presence of God's Spirit is our guarantee, until the redemption of the purchased possession.
Since redemption means purchased, it is making reference to the coming of Christ, when our redemption will be realized.
We've been purchased and we're sitting at the will call window, so to speak. He hasn't picked us up yet. But when Christ comes, He's going to come for the purchased possession. That's every believer.
Ephesians 4:30 tells us that we are sealed with the Spirit of God "until" Christ comes.
So every believer is preserved. We're being kept for Christ at His coming. That's our guarantee that we are being preserved for Him.
We have eternal life in Christ Jesus. I have eternal life, not based on my human performance, but because Christ lives in me, and He is eternal.
The Bible is crystal clear that in our unsaved condition, all of mankind following the sin of Adam is "DEAD in trespasses and sins" and "in BONDAGE to sin" and "SLAVES of satan". And that "there is NONE righteous, no NOT ONE", there is NONE that seaketh after God"
Unsaved man does not have a free will in any spiritual sense. We cannot and will not seek God with OUR WHOLE HEART until God gives us a NEW HEART.
ALL scripture from Genesis to Revelation is "The Very Word of God" and is for us TODAY.
2 Tim 3:16,17 ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness; That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto good works.
Who was in the beginning and mentioned in Genesis chapter 1.
It is of no profit to anyone to take one verse and build a mountain upon it .
For if you try and reason all of scripture by the one verse you will fall into error .
But rather we are to see one verse in the light of all the scriptures .
The devil tempted eve by giving only half truth ,land adding to the Word of God;"not" and thus changed the truth into a lie .
" thou shalt not surely die"
The devil tempting Jesus in the wilderness took also the scriptures and left stuff out or out of context .Thus the devil uses the scriptures to tempt the people of God .
Which is why God in his infinite wisdom has given not on,y the body of truth ,the scriptures but also the Spirit of truth to " lead us into all truth ".
The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of wisdom ,the Spirit of truth . The Spirit of Christ , The fear of God , and three other. "The seven spirits of God " Not that God has seven Spirits . But even as the 7 branched oil lamp in the tabernacle was made of one piece of gold and having seven branches it was nevertheless one .
When he Holy Spirit came on the day of Pentecost , " IT" meaning one , fell on them all as separate flames as of tongues.
Not that the Holy Spirit is an ' it' or impersonal something or other . For all of scripture teaches that He is a Person and one of The Trinity of God three or persons but ONE God .
We do not need additions to the Holy Bible nor indeed do we need others who have added ,subtracted and mistranslated .
For the scriptures teach " The Word of God is the seed "
A seed has this characteristic . It is not the tree or the fruit . But it does have everything that is needed and nothing that is not needed to reproduce the fruit .
You can indeed mix a horse with a donkey and you will get a mule . But a mule cannot reproduce itself .
You can indeed mix truth with error and you will get something . But it too will produce not
.....Many are called but few are Chosen...The only 1 Chosen is the H.G. that Gift of God to all the world..And is the Israel of God...But the book has to be opened 1st ....ok
For having reduced our " so great Salvation" to being but BORN again . We have made the wandering in the wilderness for 40 years as the Christian norm. Jordan as death and the promised land as heaven .
But getting out of Egypt was but being a type of being born again . By the blood of a lamb ,the Word of God ( to Abraham) and the power of God .
But we are not only saved from but saved to .
And the two years or so passing through the wilderness was but ' boot camp' . Where the children of Isreal learnt not to live by bread alone but by every Word that proceeded from the mouth of God .Ir were meant to .
Did not Paul warn the church not to be like them who entered not in because of unbelief ?
Nor be deceived as Eve was? Unbelief is not just not believing God its believing another message .
The true pattern of an Apostle has to be Paul and while we the church might never get another Paul in some measure every true Apostle must follow the pattern.
In zeal ( with knowledge"), sound doctrine , care of the church , full of the Spirit , outreach ,church building .etc .
I think perhaps all those ministries of God as listed in Ephesians needs must be ordained by God .
And all the ' qualifications' in the world are no substitutes for the anointing and blessing of God .
Moreover the true born children of God are not called to blindly follow even a real one . But as each of those ministries are given to the church( to perfect the church and get the Bride ready till " we all come to a unity of THE faith ."
Then to have such a unity there must also be a unity of understanding . For faith in God comes by understanding the Word of God .Given the propensity of many ,either to blindly follow any one who can give a ' good performance' on the one hand or else like sheep each going his own way with preach having their own interpretation of the scriptures , any true Apostle has got his work cut out and won't be popular with the many .
GB
It is true that if God had saved us we are eternally secure. But we must remember what it means to be "saved".
If God has saved us, it means that every sin that we have ever committed or will ever commit has been paid for by the Lord Jesus Christ. And we will never "again" experience the "judgment" of God which is eternal destruction.
If we have truly become saved, i.e. Born Again, it means that God has given us a New Soul, a Resurrected Soul, in which we will have an earnest ongoing desire to be obedient to what the Bible teaches, both in doctrine and in practice. There will be a huge change in our attitude and behavior toward sin.
We do still have a body that lusts after sin so we do commit sin and will never be perfectly obedient to God in our whole personality until we receive our Resurrected Spiritual Body on the Last Day.
God commands us to examine ourselves to see if we have become saved. To strive to enter in at the straight gate. And if we are not certain of our salvation we can cry to God for His Mercy in the very real hope that He might save us, if that would be His will.
A beautiful passage describing God's action in saving His Children is Eze 36:24-33. Notice that all of the action is God's action.
About Salvation, Ephesians 1:13. Once someone hears the Gospel and believes he is SEALED. Once saved always saved.
In my opinion its like watching a driver speed toward a cliff and ignore warning signs to exit now, cliff ahead. Flashing lights, sirens, countless warnings all ignored because of a belief that the signs don't really mean it. The Bible is full of warnings after warnings to everyone, both believers and non-believers. It's full of challenges, parables about how most people will go to hell. Matt 7:21 should scare some who consider themselves Christians but are inactive and not following Christ's teachings. The Bible says to fear God. It says it many, many times. Christianity is a walk, an action of following Jesus's footsteps.
But other Christians seem to have been convinced that none of that matters in the Bible- that its all for nothing, because of the lie that you don't have control anyway. That's the same argument that homosexuals make- that they're the way they are, don't have choices, and they can't help but sin and how dare you tell them otherwise, because sin is part of their identity. Same argument could be used to justify other gross sins and criminal acts.
Since satan is the father of all lies, and since there's only one truth, which is satan most likely behind: that he's deceiving christians into obeying God "more than necessary" or that he's deceiving christians into believing they don't need to obey God at all?
Calvinism seems to be the ultimate have your cake and eat it too. Sin is fun and most Christians would absolutely love the opportunity to go out and commit huge sins with zero consequence and still feel 100% secure in your salvation. But unfortunately, even though we can only be saved by grace, that doesn't mean we shouldn't put 100% effort into following Christ as a real Christ follower! A common false assumption is that obeying God somehow automatically means you're trying to "earn" heaven. Straw man argument. The Bible already addressed grace and obedience in Romans 6, so its shocking to see it ignored. James 2 is hugely ignored, like cryptonite to some believers. Pray deeply about this, about the truth, that no souls are lost from believing lies.
Hebrews 3:1 tells us that Jesus is our Apostle and High Priest. So, He is the only apostle among us today. He is the Apostle and Priests of all believers. Otherwise, all of His apostles, including Paul have died, having left their inspired writings for us to learn from them of the knowledge of God in But now, our Apostle is Jesus Christ, the Author and the Finisher of our faith. The Holy Spirit "takes what is His (Jesus) and reveals it to us".