I hope you return to read the responses you've received.
You sound angry with your perception of God. But your perception of God is not my perception of God and all of us might be wrong.
It sounds like you're angry with injustice in the world. I am too and hate it. But what's different in my view is you attribute that to God rather than to satan or man's free will. God could have made us all robots who are perfect and do exactly what He says and never sin and never harm each other, but we're not slaves or robots. If we were, people would instead be complaining about that. But God loved us enough to give us freewill. And with that responsibility each can choose good or evil. Many choose evil. That isn't God's fault. God made a perfect place then man sinned and ruined it, so now we have this sinful hostile world full of trials. But its extremely temporary. We assume our everything here is all that matters, but it isn't, its a tiny 2 second preview to the eternal main picture. We get all worked up about the injustices in those 2 seconds, but right after that everything will be made fair. Justice will be served. All will be judged. No one is actually getting by with anything. So in this short temporary life it seems like evil wins and good suffers, but nope, this is just a tiny trial and when over justice for everything will occur. I trust God for this. The Bible says not to get revenge on anyone for anything, but to leave it to God.
Basically, I think you're only hating an idea of God and I don't think that idea is what God is really like.
It's annoying that we all face death, hardship, disease, tragedy, on and on, but this should not be a surprise to anyone. God used people in the Bible like Paul who had way more problems then what I face, for example. I've never been in prison or had people try to kill me or be shipwrecked or a fraction of that stuff, praise the Lord. But we also shouldn't be comparing either, because I think we all have thorns in the flesh as challenges to handle. Not sure if you'll even read this, but God bless you.
Sorry Ryan, but the Scriptures say that Jesus rose bodily. He rose from the dead in the same body He had prior to HIs death, only it is glorified forevermore. He ascended into heaven bodily and will return to earth bodily. He forever is fully God and fully man. This is the marvel of the incarnation, that God the Father sent His Son to forever be both God and man to redeem humanity and forever be united to humanity through His human nature. He always has been united to the Father in his divine nature. But now, and forevermore, He is in heaven with His glorified body. This is classical orthodox teaching. But you may not believe this, some do not. But I wanted to speak what has been the doctrine of the church since apostolic times for those who may not be aware of it.
Dear Ryan, I reviewed those Scriptures and in them Paul is meerly stating that Jesus called him to be an apostle to the Gentiles. Neither say that gentile believers are only to follow what he writes in his epistles nor does he state that that to rightly divide the word of God is as you define it. You have your interpretation colored by the traditions of men who have influenced you via dispensationalism. I have my interpretation colored by those things that have influenced me, primarily the consistent teaching of the church prior to Darby and dispensationalism.
Ryan, I do not wish to dispute this. Your embrace of dispensationalism will be a divide between us. But you have not convinced me of your view. I still think your view adds to Scripture.
Amen & thanx. Ya its the regulations & limited videos that is scary to him. making him think this I'm sure. Just another way for the government to scare us into doing what they want us to do. Thank God believers don't fall for this. Merry Christmas & God bless "Texsis"
Hello Javier. That's a good question. It is my understanding that Jesus became Jesus (i.e. given this Name) at His Birth ( Matthew 1:21). I don't believe Jesus was known as Jesus prior to His incarnation, rather, the Bible (in the NT), speaks of Him as God's Word ( John 1:1-14). As you know, God is One ( Deuteronomy 6:4); God cannot be divided up into many gods. Yet God can do something that we humans can't: He can send out His Word & He can send out His Spirit. So we don't get three gods, but the One Holy God manifesting Himself in other forms (for our sake). We can't do this; I can speak or write my thoughts for another to heed, but in the end, they are only words. And I certainly can't send out my spirit to do a work on my behalf - even if I could, I would then be spirit-less, therefore, dead. But God is wholly a Spirit-Being ( John 4:24) & can do any work & be anywhere as He Wills - something you & I cannot do as our spirits are confined to bodies of flesh.
So, at the appointed time ( Romans 5:6), God sent out His Word for His people (Israel), just as He did by the mouths of the prophets in the Old Testament days. But this time, God clothed His Word with flesh, so that Israel might not only hear from God directly to them, but also witness that this One from Heaven has come to be the supreme Sacrifice for them. Their other sacrifices were only temporary until the coming of God's Sacrifice: Himself (His Word made flesh).
Then to your question: for Jesus (the Word out of God's Being) to live as a man, suffer & die as a man, he would have had to lay aside those attributes of Divinity that could never permit Him an experience of pain & death. Philippians 2:5-8 gives a perfect explanation of how Jesus had to humble Himself, not hold onto His equality with God before men , instead became their servant. Jesus now is God's Son, & as a man with human feelings, would rightly call out, in prayer, to His Father in Heaven; & He will always be God's Son seated beside His Father.
Revelation 4:1 is the verse that's used by those who believe that the believers will be raptured prior to the Tribulation Period, because number 1, the door had been opened, and number two, a trumpet was talking to him (John).
It's the same as Paul said in 1 Thessalonians 4:13, I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that you sorrow not, as others which have no hope.
He had just said in this chapter that the trump of God would sound. It would be a great shout, and the trump of God would sound. And so here is the trumpet talking to John saying come up here.
And those who hold the Pre-Trib. position see that as equivalent to the rapture of the church that is happening.
And from here on, John will see everything from heaven, and the church will no longer be on the earth, but the multitudes will be in heaven.
And many believe that's an indication, among other scriptures, especially 1 Thessalonians Chapter 5 where it gives us the Tribulation Period, and he says this is for the wrath of God, and we (believers) have not been chosen for the wrath of God.
There are also mentions of the Rapture in Revelation other than chapter 4 such as: The man child caught up in Revelation 12 (it's us, the body of Christ). The harvest in Revelation 14.
Gigi, I get where you're coming from. This isn't a matter of your philosophy, or Ryan's philosophy. It's a matter of what scripture says.
Also, The Holy Spirit inspired Paul to write "my gospel" on a few occasions. Rom 2:16Rom 16:25.
It's a distinct message given by Jesus Christ. To say that "focusing on Paul" is turning away from scripture is simply not true. Paul talked about Christ more then any other writer. Paul kept his sights on the Lord as he instructs us to do; not according to the Lord's earthly ministry, but according to the revelation of the mystery which IS the will of God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ. Col 2:2.
Our gospel is 1 Cor 15:1-4. It's not in Matthew - John. You find the other gospel in the Gospels. ( Gal 2:7). The only one disputing is you. I am defending the truth because I am not ashamed of it.
You cannot sit here and tell me the scriptures make sense without dispensationalism (which is in the Bible Eph 1:10Eph 3:2).
And like I told the one brother, I mentioned 2 Tim 3:16. But what comes before chapter 3? Chapter 2. Specifically 2 Tim 2:15.
Guess what? If someone is erred in the scripture and I know the truth, I'm going to speak up. I've been silent for too long.
Paul never said that his writings are strictly for the Gentiles and the rest of Scripture is for the Jews. Your viewpoint adds to Scripture doctrines that are not there. I cannot concur with you on this. JESUS is our Apostle.
You're suggestion that there's some who know him from the beginning, respectfully, is wrong. Knowing him from beginning means knowing him in the flesh, at the beginning of his ministry as Peter/the 12 did.
We are not a prodigal church since anything. We are the body of Christ. I'm not sure what your point is there. It's wise for us to look at what scripture says. "We are a prodigal church" is simply mans opinion and is not scripture.
We're the body of Christ and he is the Head. That is the spiritual truth.
Also, you mention being deceived like Eve in 2 Cor 11, well rightly dividing the word of truth is in scripture; it's how God desires us to study his word 2 Tim 2:15; and it clears a lot of things up.
If the church's doctrine was based on Romans - Phile (KJV, no "original language which isn't really original anyway; they use the classic greek. The original is koine) then lots of confusion would be cleared up. This isn't about a man (Paul). It's about the message. Paul is a chosen vessel. This is all because of the revelation of Jesus Christ. Ro-Phile is Christs' "spiritual ministry" or "heavenly ministry" if you like.
I agree with you we don't have many young men "overcoming the world" types: it's because we don't preach sin, and we don't preach the ***true*** power the grace of God gives us. It's all about self righteousness and our works. That's what I gather at least.
I do not agree with your dispensational view of Scriptures and especially that we are to focus on Paul rather than on Jesus or to not heed the Gospels or all of Scripture. I do not divide the Scriptures, prophecy, and history the way dispensationalist divide it up into dispensations.
I do not think that 2 Tim.1:9-11 is speaking of dividing Scriptures up this dispensational way. Jesus never told us to do so and I believe He is the Sovereign of the universe, not Paul, Darby, Scofield, nor Bullinger. I believe this verse is speaking about correctly understanding and teaching about Scripture, not dividing it up into dispensations, whether 7, 9, or whatever a dispensational teacher might say. I also believe that 1 Tim. 3:16-17 tells that "ALL Scripture is given by inspiration of God and profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works" So, to me, ALL means ALL. I don't think Jesus or any apostle said that any part of Scripture is not "for us". That idea is an addition to Scripture made by Darby, Bullinger and other leaders of dispensationalism.
In Romans 11:13 Paul is simply speaking of the scope of his ministry, to preach to the Gentiles the Gospel of JESUS not the gospel of Paul. He was not making a directive to the Gentiles that we are only to follow what he teaches. JESUS is who we follow. Paul would cringe and be so adamant against what is taught by Darby and Bullinger, and Scofield. He would never amplify himself at the expense of any believer minimizing the teachings JESUS in the Gospels.
Ryan, I say this because I am just as strong in my non-dispensational view as you are in your dispensational view. We do not need to dispute one another on this, in my opinion, but should allow believers to express their view and quote from all books of Scripture without others dismissing any of God's Word as being in applicable to believers.
It goes back to what I keep saying lol. I don't understand why everyone doesn't get this: 2 Tim 3:16. But what comes before it?
What comes before chapter 3? Chapter 2, and more specifically, 2 Tim 2:15. If we're going to study any of scripture, we must rightly divide it. In other words, we must study ***in light of the revelation of Jesus Christ, according to the mystery***.
James 2 and Romans 4 are perfect examples. James 1:1 he is specifically talking to the Israel of God (the believing remnant that will "come out" in Jacob's Trouble).
They "contradict each other" and that's perfectly ok. Why? Because both passages are written to different people during different dispensations. James 2: written to the remnant during Jacob's Trouble (the start of the dispensation of the kingdom) and written **for** our learning (but not our doctrine) and Romans 4: written to us in this dispensation of the grace of God (written to us and is our doctrine because we're under the mystery, the dispensation of the grace of God.)
James is not apart of the Body of Christ. Nor is the writer of Hebrews. (Paul didn't write Hebrews - Heb 2:1).
I don't understand why everyone is trying to correct me on something I've stated multiple times now.
Me: 2 Tim 3:16 all scripture is for us but we have to rightly divide it 2 Tim 2:15
You: Yeah but all scripture is for us.
Me: ....yeah I know. You're at the half way mark. Not the finish line. I'm trying to help you open your eyes to truly understanding scripture. It would be wise to inquire the truth God's opened my eyes too. I'm trying to shew you a more excellent way: God's way, how he wants us to go to scripture today.
Hello David, I am following this thread between you and Adam. I hope you don't mind me entering in. I don't think that Adam is proclaiming a gospel of works at all. He stated openly that we are saved by grace. But what Adam is emphasizing is that we are "being saved" in this life towards the end of receiving the fullness of salvation when Jesus returns and we are all resurrected or changed and then judged by Jesus, which is biblically taught. The Holy spirit is our earnest, guarantee, our "taste" of salvation in this life. We have received mercy and have been made new by the work of the Holy Spirit in our conversion. But many places in Scripture warn us to stay faithful to the end. And to actually be faithful to the end we cannot do without being born again and have the Holy Spirit working in us.
Adam is has not said that we need to obey God to be saved or do any sort of "work". He does not say that we need to continue to obey God to stay saved. He does say that one can turn away from God once born again through disobedience. Our good works and obedience do not "keep" us saved, but our disobedience and apostasy will bring us back to a state of spiritual death.
Adam, correct me if I have misrepresented your viewpoint.
Within Christendom there are those who believe, as Calvinists do, that one is eternally secure once they are born again/converted, since only those who are elect can be truly converted and cannot resist God's calling.
There are others who believe that any and all people can come to salvation in Jesus by grace through faith, and that, though God draws someone to the Gospel, one can resist Him and not be converted. Also, some believe that once someone has been converted, that same person can apostatize and turn away from God. Some who do this may return to God once again and some do not. Those who do not remain unsaved into eternity.
This debate has been going on for several centuries. Probably won't be resolved.
Hi David, I was wondering how you would explain that and reconcile what the Bible says with your belief.
These verses are in context and contradict what you are claiming, but even though they're in context and you just click or hover over it to read the whole chapter or book you just dismissed it as not being in context.
I noticed your response didn't have any Bible verses supporting your view.
I believe in and stand by Jesus's words. It sounds like you're accusing Jesus of being about "works." You do so at your own risk. I will not be ashamed for believing in what Jesus says, even if people use all kinds of tricks to attack.
Jesus: "If ye love me, keep my commandments." John 14:15
You: No, don't obey, because that's works.
Is that really your position that it's "bad" to obey Jesus, and "good" to not obey Jesus?
If so, that sounds exactly like something satan would say. Such a clever deception to get people to believe its somehow bad to do good and good to do bad. As if God wants people to disobey Him!?
Also I noticed you used the same straw man argument everyone else has been taught to use that if you want to follow Jesus then automatically you're trying to work towards heaven and there's no other possibility. I already said we're saved by grace, which seemed to be ignored. Of course I already answered this fallacy in advance, but maybe you didn't read it or did and claimed this fallacy anyway. Anyway, I feel a moral obligation to counter the lies on here and anyone claiming that its bad to follow and bad to obey Jesus is just is not speaking the truth. The Bible warns Christians of this throughout scripture.
Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Do you notice who's doing the building? The Lord himself! PRECIOUS STONE!
Our own efforts can only build straw houses. ( Wood hay and stubble)
The Apostles lais the foundation in which we are to build upon.
Jesus is the Cornerstone. ( In building the Cornerstone is the first and most important part of the foundation. The rest of the building depends on It's perfection. afterwards the foundation is layed. (THE APOSTLES)
Then the comes the building. (US.)
Once the building has started there is no need of another foundation. This is what Christ was saying in Matthew 16:18. " upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
HE was speaking of himself referencing Peters answer. ( Matthew 16:16 "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Ephesians 2:19-22. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
And are built upon the FOUNDATION OF THE APOSTLES AND PROPHETS, Jesus Christ himself being the chief CORNER STONE;
In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
In whom YE ALSO ARE BUILDED TOGETHER FOR AN HABITATION of God through the Spirit.
Also see.
1 Corinthians 3:10-11 (KJV) According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Alex1939...The reason Jesus has to know us is b/c we have to be bornagain of his incorruptible seed...even by the words of God that New Covenant IN HIS BLOOD...My lil Children of whom i travail in birth till Christ is formed in you...Thats y he has to know us so that Christ might be formed in us...Truth is the sower of that good seed is Christ the Bridegroom...Thats y he is saying whosoever receiveth one such child in my name receiveth me...And that good seed are the words of God...And he that soweth that good seed is Christ the son of man...The bridegroom...It all goes back to the great Promise when God swore by his very self that Christ wd be multiplied as the stars of heaven...Thus the need for a sower and his seed but it had to be a heavenly seed ...As we have borne the the image of the earthy we must also bear the image of the heavenly...Which is the H.G. the multiplication of very God as Jesus said to whom the word came ( his seed ) it made them Gods...And the scripture cannot be broken...When he breathe on them he was propagating very God which was the H.G. That Child of PROMISE...Which is Spirit as that which is born of the spirt is spirit...As God is spirit..Remember Jesus said the good seed are the Children of the Kingdom.
But she halted...As Micah 5:3 said he wd give them up till the woman is in travail and birth pains...Then the remnant of his brethren will come and be a sign to Israel and the world...We are still in that time of desolation when no man can work...Jesus said i am the light of the world but the night comes when no man can work...While the bridegroom tarried they all slumbered and slept..But on the 3 rd day he made a New Wine which was better then the 1st wine...Which is when that book is opened on the last day as God told Daniel...Thats when Jeremiah saw all men in travail and birth pains... Jeremiah 30:6...For the babes and sucklings that are able to worship God with a perfect praise.Which are the words of the book...The Womans Children
The verses you quote need to be understood in the context of everything the Bible declares about the nature of our salvation.
I'm sorry Adam, but you are proclaiming a gospel of works. And if that is our gospel, we are still under the law, and subject to all the penalties associated with disobedience to the law.
If God has saved us and given us our resurrected soul, it means He has paid for all of our sins. Our obedience is then the EVIDENCE of our salvation, not the CAUSE nor the MEANS. We are no longer under the penalty of the law. Because Christ as our substitute has fully paid that penalty.
God has written the Bible in a way so that if we insist on isolating certain verses, and ignoring others that bear on the question, we will get ourselves into serious trouble. We have only come to truth, when we can harmonize all of the verses that bear on a question.
I hope you return to read the responses you've received.
You sound angry with your perception of God. But your perception of God is not my perception of God and all of us might be wrong.
It sounds like you're angry with injustice in the world. I am too and hate it. But what's different in my view is you attribute that to God rather than to satan or man's free will. God could have made us all robots who are perfect and do exactly what He says and never sin and never harm each other, but we're not slaves or robots. If we were, people would instead be complaining about that. But God loved us enough to give us freewill. And with that responsibility each can choose good or evil. Many choose evil. That isn't God's fault. God made a perfect place then man sinned and ruined it, so now we have this sinful hostile world full of trials. But its extremely temporary. We assume our everything here is all that matters, but it isn't, its a tiny 2 second preview to the eternal main picture. We get all worked up about the injustices in those 2 seconds, but right after that everything will be made fair. Justice will be served. All will be judged. No one is actually getting by with anything. So in this short temporary life it seems like evil wins and good suffers, but nope, this is just a tiny trial and when over justice for everything will occur. I trust God for this. The Bible says not to get revenge on anyone for anything, but to leave it to God.
Basically, I think you're only hating an idea of God and I don't think that idea is what God is really like.
It's annoying that we all face death, hardship, disease, tragedy, on and on, but this should not be a surprise to anyone. God used people in the Bible like Paul who had way more problems then what I face, for example. I've never been in prison or had people try to kill me or be shipwrecked or a fraction of that stuff, praise the Lord. But we also shouldn't be comparing either, because I think we all have thorns in the flesh as challenges to handle. Not sure if you'll even read this, but God bless you.
Ryan, I do not wish to dispute this. Your embrace of dispensationalism will be a divide between us. But you have not convinced me of your view. I still think your view adds to Scripture.
So, at the appointed time ( Romans 5:6), God sent out His Word for His people (Israel), just as He did by the mouths of the prophets in the Old Testament days. But this time, God clothed His Word with flesh, so that Israel might not only hear from God directly to them, but also witness that this One from Heaven has come to be the supreme Sacrifice for them. Their other sacrifices were only temporary until the coming of God's Sacrifice: Himself (His Word made flesh).
Then to your question: for Jesus (the Word out of God's Being) to live as a man, suffer & die as a man, he would have had to lay aside those attributes of Divinity that could never permit Him an experience of pain & death. Philippians 2:5-8 gives a perfect explanation of how Jesus had to humble Himself, not hold onto His equality with God before men , instead became their servant. Jesus now is God's Son, & as a man with human feelings, would rightly call out, in prayer, to His Father in Heaven; & He will always be God's Son seated beside His Father.
Revelation 4:1 is the verse that's used by those who believe that the believers will be raptured prior to the Tribulation Period, because number 1, the door had been opened, and number two, a trumpet was talking to him (John).
It's the same as Paul said in 1 Thessalonians 4:13, I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that you sorrow not, as others which have no hope.
He had just said in this chapter that the trump of God would sound. It would be a great shout, and the trump of God would sound. And so here is the trumpet talking to John saying come up here.
And those who hold the Pre-Trib. position see that as equivalent to the rapture of the church that is happening.
And from here on, John will see everything from heaven, and the church will no longer be on the earth, but the multitudes will be in heaven.
And many believe that's an indication, among other scriptures, especially 1 Thessalonians Chapter 5 where it gives us the Tribulation Period, and he says this is for the wrath of God, and we (believers) have not been chosen for the wrath of God.
Jesus' ministry was and is to baptize people with His Spirit. That is the baptism that is needed.
2 Tim 1:9-11
To ignore these verses is just blatantly rejecting God and HIS way.
Hopefully these are helpful
Also, The Holy Spirit inspired Paul to write "my gospel" on a few occasions. Rom 2:16 Rom 16:25.
It's a distinct message given by Jesus Christ. To say that "focusing on Paul" is turning away from scripture is simply not true. Paul talked about Christ more then any other writer. Paul kept his sights on the Lord as he instructs us to do; not according to the Lord's earthly ministry, but according to the revelation of the mystery which IS the will of God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ. Col 2:2.
Our gospel is 1 Cor 15:1-4. It's not in Matthew - John. You find the other gospel in the Gospels. ( Gal 2:7). The only one disputing is you. I am defending the truth because I am not ashamed of it.
You cannot sit here and tell me the scriptures make sense without dispensationalism (which is in the Bible Eph 1:10 Eph 3:2).
And like I told the one brother, I mentioned 2 Tim 3:16. But what comes before chapter 3? Chapter 2. Specifically 2 Tim 2:15.
Guess what? If someone is erred in the scripture and I know the truth, I'm going to speak up. I've been silent for too long.
Hopefully these are helpful in your study
John 5:30, John 10:17, John 14:23, John 16:27,
Deuteronomy 4:2, Revelation 22:18,19, 1John 2:26,27, Colossians 2:8,
Hopefully helpful
Paul never said that his writings are strictly for the Gentiles and the rest of Scripture is for the Jews. Your viewpoint adds to Scripture doctrines that are not there. I cannot concur with you on this. JESUS is our Apostle.
We are not a prodigal church since anything. We are the body of Christ. I'm not sure what your point is there. It's wise for us to look at what scripture says. "We are a prodigal church" is simply mans opinion and is not scripture.
We're the body of Christ and he is the Head. That is the spiritual truth.
Also, you mention being deceived like Eve in 2 Cor 11, well rightly dividing the word of truth is in scripture; it's how God desires us to study his word 2 Tim 2:15; and it clears a lot of things up.
If the church's doctrine was based on Romans - Phile (KJV, no "original language which isn't really original anyway; they use the classic greek. The original is koine) then lots of confusion would be cleared up. This isn't about a man (Paul). It's about the message. Paul is a chosen vessel. This is all because of the revelation of Jesus Christ. Ro-Phile is Christs' "spiritual ministry" or "heavenly ministry" if you like.
I agree with you we don't have many young men "overcoming the world" types: it's because we don't preach sin, and we don't preach the ***true*** power the grace of God gives us. It's all about self righteousness and our works. That's what I gather at least.
I do not agree with your dispensational view of Scriptures and especially that we are to focus on Paul rather than on Jesus or to not heed the Gospels or all of Scripture. I do not divide the Scriptures, prophecy, and history the way dispensationalist divide it up into dispensations.
I do not think that 2 Tim.1:9-11 is speaking of dividing Scriptures up this dispensational way. Jesus never told us to do so and I believe He is the Sovereign of the universe, not Paul, Darby, Scofield, nor Bullinger. I believe this verse is speaking about correctly understanding and teaching about Scripture, not dividing it up into dispensations, whether 7, 9, or whatever a dispensational teacher might say. I also believe that 1 Tim. 3:16-17 tells that "ALL Scripture is given by inspiration of God and profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works" So, to me, ALL means ALL. I don't think Jesus or any apostle said that any part of Scripture is not "for us". That idea is an addition to Scripture made by Darby, Bullinger and other leaders of dispensationalism.
In Romans 11:13 Paul is simply speaking of the scope of his ministry, to preach to the Gentiles the Gospel of JESUS not the gospel of Paul. He was not making a directive to the Gentiles that we are only to follow what he teaches. JESUS is who we follow. Paul would cringe and be so adamant against what is taught by Darby and Bullinger, and Scofield. He would never amplify himself at the expense of any believer minimizing the teachings JESUS in the Gospels.
Ryan, I say this because I am just as strong in my non-dispensational view as you are in your dispensational view. We do not need to dispute one another on this, in my opinion, but should allow believers to express their view and quote from all books of Scripture without others dismissing any of God's Word as being in applicable to believers.
What comes before chapter 3? Chapter 2, and more specifically, 2 Tim 2:15. If we're going to study any of scripture, we must rightly divide it. In other words, we must study ***in light of the revelation of Jesus Christ, according to the mystery***.
James 2 and Romans 4 are perfect examples. James 1:1 he is specifically talking to the Israel of God (the believing remnant that will "come out" in Jacob's Trouble).
They "contradict each other" and that's perfectly ok. Why? Because both passages are written to different people during different dispensations. James 2: written to the remnant during Jacob's Trouble (the start of the dispensation of the kingdom) and written **for** our learning (but not our doctrine) and Romans 4: written to us in this dispensation of the grace of God (written to us and is our doctrine because we're under the mystery, the dispensation of the grace of God.)
James is not apart of the Body of Christ. Nor is the writer of Hebrews. (Paul didn't write Hebrews - Heb 2:1).
I don't understand why everyone is trying to correct me on something I've stated multiple times now.
Me: 2 Tim 3:16 all scripture is for us but we have to rightly divide it 2 Tim 2:15
You: Yeah but all scripture is for us.
Me: ....yeah I know. You're at the half way mark. Not the finish line. I'm trying to help you open your eyes to truly understanding scripture. It would be wise to inquire the truth God's opened my eyes too. I'm trying to shew you a more excellent way: God's way, how he wants us to go to scripture today.
Adam is has not said that we need to obey God to be saved or do any sort of "work". He does not say that we need to continue to obey God to stay saved. He does say that one can turn away from God once born again through disobedience. Our good works and obedience do not "keep" us saved, but our disobedience and apostasy will bring us back to a state of spiritual death.
Adam, correct me if I have misrepresented your viewpoint.
Within Christendom there are those who believe, as Calvinists do, that one is eternally secure once they are born again/converted, since only those who are elect can be truly converted and cannot resist God's calling.
There are others who believe that any and all people can come to salvation in Jesus by grace through faith, and that, though God draws someone to the Gospel, one can resist Him and not be converted. Also, some believe that once someone has been converted, that same person can apostatize and turn away from God. Some who do this may return to God once again and some do not. Those who do not remain unsaved into eternity.
This debate has been going on for several centuries. Probably won't be resolved.
These verses are in context and contradict what you are claiming, but even though they're in context and you just click or hover over it to read the whole chapter or book you just dismissed it as not being in context.
I noticed your response didn't have any Bible verses supporting your view.
I believe in and stand by Jesus's words. It sounds like you're accusing Jesus of being about "works." You do so at your own risk. I will not be ashamed for believing in what Jesus says, even if people use all kinds of tricks to attack.
Jesus: "If ye love me, keep my commandments." John 14:15
You: No, don't obey, because that's works.
Is that really your position that it's "bad" to obey Jesus, and "good" to not obey Jesus?
If so, that sounds exactly like something satan would say. Such a clever deception to get people to believe its somehow bad to do good and good to do bad. As if God wants people to disobey Him!?
Also I noticed you used the same straw man argument everyone else has been taught to use that if you want to follow Jesus then automatically you're trying to work towards heaven and there's no other possibility. I already said we're saved by grace, which seemed to be ignored. Of course I already answered this fallacy in advance, but maybe you didn't read it or did and claimed this fallacy anyway. Anyway, I feel a moral obligation to counter the lies on here and anyone claiming that its bad to follow and bad to obey Jesus is just is not speaking the truth. The Bible warns Christians of this throughout scripture.
Matthew 7:21-23
Hebrews 10:26
Hebrews 6:4-6
James 2:14-26
Matthew 12:31-32
Romans 14:12
1 Peter 1:5
1 Cor 9:24-27
2 Peter 3:17
Luke 8:5-18
1 Timothy 4:1
2 Peter 2:20-22
Hebrews 3:12
Galatians 5:4
1 Corinthians 15:2-8
Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Do you notice who's doing the building? The Lord himself! PRECIOUS STONE!
Our own efforts can only build straw houses. ( Wood hay and stubble)
The Apostles lais the foundation in which we are to build upon.
Jesus is the Cornerstone. ( In building the Cornerstone is the first and most important part of the foundation. The rest of the building depends on It's perfection. afterwards the foundation is layed. (THE APOSTLES)
Then the comes the building. (US.)
Once the building has started there is no need of another foundation. This is what Christ was saying in Matthew 16:18. " upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
HE was speaking of himself referencing Peters answer. ( Matthew 16:16 "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Ephesians 2:19-22. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
And are built upon the FOUNDATION OF THE APOSTLES AND PROPHETS, Jesus Christ himself being the chief CORNER STONE;
In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
In whom YE ALSO ARE BUILDED TOGETHER FOR AN HABITATION of God through the Spirit.
Also see.
1 Corinthians 3:10-11 (KJV) According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
God bless.
But she halted...As Micah 5:3 said he wd give them up till the woman is in travail and birth pains...Then the remnant of his brethren will come and be a sign to Israel and the world...We are still in that time of desolation when no man can work...Jesus said i am the light of the world but the night comes when no man can work...While the bridegroom tarried they all slumbered and slept..But on the 3 rd day he made a New Wine which was better then the 1st wine...Which is when that book is opened on the last day as God told Daniel...Thats when Jeremiah saw all men in travail and birth pains... Jeremiah 30:6...For the babes and sucklings that are able to worship God with a perfect praise.Which are the words of the book...The Womans Children
I'm sorry Adam, but you are proclaiming a gospel of works. And if that is our gospel, we are still under the law, and subject to all the penalties associated with disobedience to the law.
If God has saved us and given us our resurrected soul, it means He has paid for all of our sins. Our obedience is then the EVIDENCE of our salvation, not the CAUSE nor the MEANS. We are no longer under the penalty of the law. Because Christ as our substitute has fully paid that penalty.
God has written the Bible in a way so that if we insist on isolating certain verses, and ignoring others that bear on the question, we will get ourselves into serious trouble. We have only come to truth, when we can harmonize all of the verses that bear on a question.