Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, (speaking of the deadness of the reproduction systems of Abraham and Sara), so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.
God produced descendants from Abraham and Sara that were as many as the sand on the seashores, from somebody who's dead.
That's faith because it's humanly impossible. And therefore it's God!
Dear Heavenly Father, we lift up before you Bob's son. In the name of Jesus we ask that you will bring healing to this son form covid and the flu and that his symptoms will be mild and not worsen over time. Bring him comfort and relief from these symptoms, good rest and all that only you can provide to bring him to health once again. Amen.
I am thinking that Hebrews 11:12 is saying that Abraham is the "father" of all who follow God by faith as did Noah (mentioned earlier) and all who came after Abraham who truly believed in God as the only way to be saved and the only god who is true to His word and promises, and the only God period. Through Abraham came Jesus, the promised "Seed" from Genesis 3, that will crush the evil one and His power. So, all who believe that it is God who will overcome sin, death, hell, and satan are Abraham's children, whether biologically descended from Him or not. It is those who have faith in God to save them who are truly Abraham's children.
All believers in Jesus are counted among these "children", but even better, all those, like Abraham who fully trusted in God to save them are blessed to be children of God.
I may have said a lot of this stuff before; hopefully there are a few nuances of difference. The scripture is always the best guide to answering tough questions. We have examples of Abraham called out of Ur of Chaldee; for example who was the father of all those of Monotheistic faith today. He was called in a foreign land; and given a future promise of a Promised Land as well as offspring who would inherit it ( Genesis 17:2 and repeated in Hebrews). He never got to dwell permanently anywhere but was a nomad in the desert and through miraculous means his wife of 90 conceived when he was 100.
When we look at the story of Sodom and Gomorrah; we could say that Abraham was having a sort of contest with God on a similar theme; His preservation of the city if a small number of righteous men lived there; he started with 50 men and ended at 10. This shows a theme which also was repeated with God waiting for a certain period until transgressions were full to judge in Genesis 15:16. Sodom was ripe for judgment as were the Amorites; but in their case it wasn't until four generations later and THAT along with Egypt being judged for their fullness of iniquity that finally bought the descendants to conquer the Promised Land. So God calls out His people wherever they are if they are chosen (predestined) to be His children. He will send angels or whatever means to reach the lost; and we see this happening again in the Book of Revelation. If we seek the God of the Bible then we have to believe His Word on our spiritual condition (as sinners) and we need to have it revealed to us (i.e. granted repentance as shown in Acts 11:18 and elsewhere.
The confession of our mouth and believe in our heart ( Romans 10:19) it is a RESULT of His Spirit working in us to convict of sin; righteousness and judgment to come ( John 16:8-11).
Conversion of course involves interaction and our choice to verbally repent.
Amen, E. I could not have said it better than you have here and many times.
I am convinced that God does hear your every prayer and does not delay to answer them. It may take time for all things to occur in the matter of "time". But in eternity, God hears and answers readily. May your family be healed of the mistreatments done against the little ones and seek God with all of their hearts now and forevermore.
Predestination part 3. (eternal fate heaven or hell).
When we are "conformed to the image of His Son" ( Romans 8:29) we see the concept of predestination and "first fruits" there; which would foreshadow a Rapture/Resurrection event. Another way to put it is that those who read the Beatitudes on a surface level or human level of understanding see a humanitarian sort of principle of for instance; how to be "peacemakers"; feed the poor; etc. ANYONE; even an atheist can do such things but it is only the Holiness of God through the Spirit after true conversion that gives us the reality of that in our souls. No amount of penance; self sacrifice or other actions can give us more of a desire for God's Holiness if it doesn't already exist in someone's soul! Nonetheless "faith without works is dead." ( James 2:17). Poducing fruit is essential for a true believer as we see with the Parable of the Sower and the seed.
There are also various levels of suffering in hell as well as rewards in heaven. We see this in Matthew 11:20-24 with several cities in mind. Also we see this in Matthew 13:8 as to the 30 fold and 100 fold producers (also see 1 Cor. 15:41).
I am fairly dogmatic as to those before the age of accountability not being punished for their sin NATURE since they haven't acted out the sin knowing that they are rebels against God. When we look at Romans 7:9-11; we understand this concept; and when we see the story of David and his son who died ( 2 Samuel 12:23) we see evidence of this amongst other places ( Psalm 8:2 for example).
Another way of looking at is is the verse "we will not have this man to rule over us." ( Luke 19:14). This is what all say who go against the Man who God has given all authority to in heaven and earth ( Matt. 28:18). If we disbelieve the living Word ( Heb. 4:12 etal) then we reject His authority and preservation as well as 2 Timothy 3:16 which states all scripture is breathed of God..
Just to say , if you don't mind , that the Ethiopian needed someone to teach him about Jesus because he had come from Ethiopia and , he didn't have the new testament to read . I have total respect for you and your posts , I do take issue with the fact that you think that we need a person to teach us about God . Simply because , to me , that's a bit like saying that the Bible , as provided for us by God , isn't enough . Remember that we , humans , are not to add or subtract from God's Word , this strongly implies that God has provided , in the book , everything we need to draw closer to and understand Him , as much as He will permit . I was reading the Bible for a few years , every day , before I set foot in a church , though I don't profess to have understood it all then and I don't understand it all now , many years later , I'm still learning . The main way I learn is to read it , every day for almost thirty years . I have learnt things by reading this site also , indeed from you ! I'm a bit confused though when people , not specifically you or anyone in particular , say things such as : we need a person to help us understand but then say that the Holy Spirit teaches them . If we have one why do we need the other ? For me , I need to read , every day , God's Word . I'm not in a rush and don't expect to ever understand it all in my earthly life time . God's arm is not shortened , whom He wants to bring to Himself , He will bring , by His own chosen means . Thanks for all your interesting posts .
Thank you Richard, for a very reasoned post on this subject.
I may add that there are some that are not Calvinists nor Arminianist in the true sense of these words. Each viewpoint does have strong points and weaknesses, in my view. But, as you advise, I keep studying the Scriptures and hold them up to what people say.
In regards to the rest of what you stated, I agree! We are to hold out the gospel to all whom the Spirit leads us to share it with. We let the Holy Spirit do the rest, because only God knows who and how many will be saved in total and whom and how many will be forever lost without God's presence, grace, benevolence. Only His wrath.
It seems most on this site espouse a true heaven and hell and that people will be judged either to spend eternity in one or the other. But there are some on here who do not think that there is a hell and spiritualize the concept of heaven. But God does not dwell in a conceptual place. He is a real actual Being, and heaven is real, though spiritual place where heavenly being exist.
Also, many of these people are universalists, as you say, believing that all humans will be saved in the end. I am not one of them, but there have been posts by people who do fit into. that camp.
So, as Paul, told us, we are to watch our faith and doctrine carefully to be sure that we are, indeed, in and of the faith.
My prayer for all people on this forum is that they grow in grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ and His word given to us through Himself and through the Bible. I pray that people on this forum will earnestly seek Him in all ways, and advance in their love for Him and pursue Him in Scripture.
Predestination part 2 (in regard to eternal life or death specifically).
If we look into the whole issue of God predestining some for heaven and others for hell; we often refer to the term "double predestination". We need to keep in mind the verses such as hell was created for the Devil and his angels ( Matt. 25:41) and that God is not a respecter of men ( Romans 2:11 etc) as well as the fact that He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked. ( Ezekiel 18:23). As I stated recently; there IS rejoicing among the Godhead as well as God's people when the wicked are judged; as the earth is purged from corruption.
In regard then to the destruction of the wicked; it is because of sin that is not sought to be forgiven and that through the METHOD God has given; namely through the substitutionary atonement of the Son. Many remain stuck on that point as those of the true "Grace Gospel" expose when they still think they have some merit on righteousness of their own. Only the 100 percent wicked need a 100 percent Savior; it is an all or nothing proposition. We need to realize that Satan is the father of all those who are outside the faith. ( John 8:44). Someone may accept their own sin but try telling them that fact; or worse that is the fate of family members who are or were not believers and have passed. This is a serious concern among those who remember their relatives as they were; and if they saw them in torment it would hardly give them a nostalgic feeling. Realizing that apart from Christ we are only thinking of ourselves ultimately as our motivation isn't fun. Also realizing that putting SELF on the throne is exactly what Satan does to lureus as he himself has that mindset then we are quite humbled. These aren't fun things to ponder but it certainly does get our mind off all the chaos in this world; important as some issues are compared to the eternal fate of sinners.
Several replies to my comments regarding the Jealousy Offering in numbers 5 are showing that they clearly did not read with comprehension. I mean that Joseph believed Mary (why would he not? Because she conceived while she was visiting her cousin Elizabeth who was having a different kind of miraculous birth: old age delivery of John the Baptist). But tongues would have obviously been wagging and he may have been contemplating performing the offering to prove to the community her innocence. But he believed her and was not jealous. Ergo was not required to do the offering. If he had any doubts all he would have done was perform the jealousy offering as the LAW DEMANDS of suspicious (just) husbands to save them self from iniquity. So he was a just man and knew the law(s). Yes. This is further proof that he had not lain with her because performing the offering would implicate him as the biological father. See what I mean? He was TRAPPED in the law. His problem: do I marry the virgin or not? There is nothing in the prophesies that say whether the virgin is married or not. So he pondered and was going to divorce her due to PRIVITY: God's equal claim to Mary and the child. He was going to void his promise in deference to another's prior claim. Look up the definition of privity (another probable root of privily). It's different than privately.
Galatians 4:4
But when the fullness of time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made "under the law",
"Quotations" mine.
Jesus was made from the ovum of Mary and made under the law (according to THE MOSAIC LAW) his father was Joseph the husband of Mary. Not because Joseph "knew" his wife but because the law says so. Hallelujah. Fully Son of God and fully Son of man as Christ himself so often reiterated.
Whatever side of the whole issue one takes in regard to Predestination and free will; we all as Bible believers (unless Universalists)
accept that some in the end are saved; and some are lost. We shall also assume that we are not of the camp that doesn't believe in a literal hell (which; by default should cause an issue with a literal heaven); and finally we will accept that eternity means eternity; not some annihilation.
All would agree that there is a set number saved and lost in the end. Despite what may be assumed by some; there is still an impetus thrusting people out to proclaim the Gospel for "Arminians" and "Calvinists." In fact; looking at the history of Whitfield; for example and other reformers; as well as personal friends of mine who are all "Calvanists" it could be argued they are the majority of those evangelizing. The emphasis is on proclaiming the Good News and having the Spirit draw those forth who He will; rather than what some call "decisional regeneration." One could say that neither viewpoint or any in-between one in regrad to free will and predestination takes away for a true believer the infallibility of the entire text of 66 books of the Bible.
What is most vital; therefore is to take the entire Word of God and consume it. If we try to pigeonhole anything to fit into our understanding of a doctrine and disregard those seemingly contradictory verses then we are doing violence to scripture. Revelation 22:18-19 is a dire warning against that book at least; it should stand also to other violations of scripture.
Of course; if we are to start a Theocracy as some of the reformers did where men are forced to believe some tenet out of fear of man's punishment we are going against what we claim about God drawing all men to Himself ( John 12:32-33). The same thing can be said when peer or family pressure exists and/or someone is "culturally or born into" Christianity. When the Spirit prompts it IS time for decision.
Alex1939...While we are talking about MARY...In Luke 11:27 A certain woman of the company lifted up her voice and said blessed is the womb that bear you and the Paps you have sucked...Praising Mary...But Jesus said rather blessed are them that hear my words and keeps them...Which is the field were that good seed is sown ( our hearts.) ..Thus Christ can be formed in us via hearing his words his seeds ..Regeneration...Which is the H.G. the Child of Promise... Gal 4:19 My lil children of whom i Travail in birth till Christ is formed in you...Thats y he always refers to himself as the Son of Man...Salvation can only come via his words his seeds etc...Jesus asked who is my Mother?... Then he said them that hears my words and keeps them, his seeds ...She brought forth a manchild that is gonna rule all nations... Rev 12:10 Which is the H.G. That Child of Promise the Kingdom.
...When Isaiah saw the Kingdom coming 9:6..he said unto us a Child is born unto us a son is given...THats when he refers to Jesus as everlasting Father...And a lil Child is gonna lead them....There is a Child in our future which is the H.G...As that which is born of the spirit is spirit via hearing his words..ok Gbu...Thats y he always refers to himself as the son of man...Which is mankinds fruit unto God... Romans 7:4
Alex1939...Leentje I kindly disagree with you that Joseph was Jesus Father...Had Joseph been his biological Father Jesus wd had been a sinner like all men....But in that Jesus had no Propensity to sin proves that God Almighty was his Real FATHER...
And the Lamb of God cd not be defiled by any man's seed...As all men carry the stain and the spot of Adam...There was none righteous no not one...
.....Them that are born of God cannot sin...Which was Jesus the Christ Child...God cd not instruct all the angels to worship his son if Joseph was his biological FATHER...Jesus knew what was in man thats y he wd not commit himself to man...Thats y it had to be a virgin birth...As all men carry the stain and the spot of adam...The Lamb of God had to be perfect in every way...
.....Thats y Jesus said satan cometh and has nothin in me...Simply b/c no man was his biological father...Thus Jesus had no propensity to sin like all other men....k
Yes I did, thnx. after more study & prayer I came to the conclusion that I tend to jump to conclusion because I'm so freaked out by the worlds evil today that I tend to critic every little thing. In doing so, in this case, I learned something I never knew. For that I thank you & anyone pointing out truth. Pray y'all stay warm God bless "Texsis"
Proper view on impreccatory Psalms and scriptures on hell (part 2)
Looking further into this topic; we certainly should be "thrust out" to proclaim the Gospel with these eternal realities made clear to us. Unfortunately; with today's watered down; and/or politically correct version of scripture we are somehow believing that we can have our "best life now." We can more accurately say with the eternal weight of glory ( 2 Cor. 4:17) that we are living our "worst life now." What is best; however is realizing that our old life is DEAD ( Gal. 2:20) and that our life is in the Spirit. The fear of death no longer haunts us ( Heb. 2:14-15) so we are able to tell others the Good News.
Our thoughts need to be His thoughts; this gives us a clearer understanding of praying in the Spirit things that are honoring to God and truly petitioning what His covenants promise as servants of God. Trusting God even when we need to say or do things that go against our natural minds may be a process. If we DON'T seek Him on these tough topics; then really the only other method of "fire and brimstone" preaching is utilizing our self righteousness to stir up anger. Without the love of Christ; therefore we are truly a clanging cymbal. Only in His love can we demonstrate that He has overcome the world within our own hearts and souls. When the love of Christ causes all sorts of resistance ( Matt. 5:44) then we truly are heaping coals of fire on someone ( Romans 12:20 quoting Prov. 25). To overcome; therefore we must avoid at all costs any of our own self-righteousness and anger; nonetheless a holy indignation is certainly necessary in many cases when the nation at large is so wicked. In conclusion; therefore there are national and corporate sins; and individual which both involve a call but for those chosen the truth is opened up. Let it be therefore the Spirit not us which is the two-edged sword ( Heb. 4:12) and not our own cutting words.
Proper view on imprecatory Psalms and other scriptures on the wrath of God
In Psalm 2; we see that God laughs at the calamity of the wicked. This is repeated in Psalm 37 and 59 and I believe elsewhere in scripture. We don't have the prerogative as the Lord does for such an attitude. This doesn't mean; however that we won't rejoice in God's judgments of the wicked. Also as Isaiah 66 makes clear; we will see those in hell and they will be an abhorrence.
Romans 5:10 indicates how we all were enemies of God. We are commanded to love our enemies; as well as "pray for those who despitefully use you" ( Matt. 5:44). This isn't possible; of course apart from the Spirit living in us. But we note as well that we are aware of who our enemies are; namely those opposing Christ.
We need to differentiate as well between that which is spoken to the masses (those called) with an individual message (to those who are chosen). We are all in a STATE of sin; which is common to this world system; as is described in James 3:15 as the "world; flesh and the devil." The world which promises "freedom" makes us captive; whereas when we are servants of Christ we are truly set free. To hate the sin and love the sinner therefore is more of an aversion to the state of sin even than to their individual participation in it. We can flip the tables on this and state that the love of Christ is more focused on the BODY of Christ than any individual member of it; that is if we wish to find a church with balanced gifting.
Ultimately; then the final fate for the unregenerate is in a perpetual state of sin; and therefore they are just one of a whole pile of garbage; spiritually. Hence is the allegory of Gehenna in scripture given as a comparison to eternal hellfire; where they used to toss the trash outside the city. Rev. 11:18 is even fitting for environmentalists; God will "destroy those who destroy the earth." Animals as well will feast at Armageddon.
Think of a pitch black room with no electricity. Now light a match.that's you. You are that light in the darkness. Sometimes a match, sometimes a blow torch,
Texsis and Chris no apologies necessary. In reading Psalms 105 I was thinking that God does all His holy will. In 40 and 41 He certainly could have reminded us of our sin, it was plentiful, but showed His grace and mercy instead. I did not come here to argue or be contentious and I will not condemn another's servant, I was just praising God.
Alex1939....Leentje...I kindly disagree, 1st off the LAMB of God cd not be tainted or defiled by any mans seed...As all men carried the stain and the spot of ADAM...None righteous no not even 1...Thats y it had to be a virgin birth...Thus it had to be an immaculate Conception...And Mary was made clean by the word spoken to her...Her fetus was Jesus the living word...Thus she was made immaculate spritually speaking...As DAVID said its the lords doings and is precious in our eyes...Not any man .
.....Thats y our lord had no Propensity to sin simply b/c God Almighty was his biological Father...The word made flesh and blood...Had Joseph been his biological father he wd have been a sinner like all men...Almighty God tells us this is my beloved son in whom i am well pleased...As Jesus was the living WORD ( God ) made flesh and blood...Acts... Feed the Church of God that he has purchased with his own blood...Not mans Blood...It was Gods Blood the blood of Jesus....My Father and i are 1...ok lemme go
.....All men have this horrible Propensity to sin. None righteous no not ONE... but Jesus had no Propensity to sin...Simply b/c God Almighty was his ABSOLUTE Father THAT CANNOT SIN...And he that is born of God cannot sin...Which was Christ Jesus.
My guess is that God chose Joseph to be Mary's husband and help her bring up His Son because He knew that Joseph was a devoted believer in Him and would recognise that Mary was still a virgin and that her baby would be the fulfillment of the prophecies in the old testament . Joseph was not chosen at random . God knew his heart and that he would be a good dad and husband but more importantly , God knew that Joseph believed in Him and in the prophecies of the old testament . He new Joseph had faith in Him and would be obedient to God's will without question .
Hi Leentje. I see two important matters arising from your comment:
a. Numbers chapter 5. The Jealousy Offering that was required involved a long process of questioning & testing. Though, as you say, Joseph would have considered this due to a possible suspicion of his wife, I don't believe he would have ever proceeded with it.
b. Matthew 1:20,21. If it were not for the angelic assurance that the Seed in Mary was implanted by the Holy Spirit & not by any man, Joseph could well have entertained other options with great despair.
Therefore, I don't believe that the matter proceeded further than this. That Joseph, with the assurance & comfort from the Lord, believed that the impossible was made possible & now became a fact; and that it was incumbent upon him to offer no further questions on the matter but accept the status quo, & honor his promise to Mary. He would then always be a guardian to the Child Jesus, though to others in the society, seen as Jesus' biological father with a clear ancestral line to David.
No problem , it's very easy for missunderstandings to occur when we are communicating with strangers and only by typing . So much communication is missed when we can't see each others body language and facial expressions and we have no idea of each others personalities in reality .
Dear Diane, rest in peace and Merry Christmas. If you read v 11 you understand that the Lord Is, Ego Eimi. He is the one who decides. It is He who draws us to Himself. Without Him, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.
Trust that He is with you every second.
Hope this helped you. Saw that you had not received a reply. That's why I answered. Be well and look up to Him to whom all glory is due. Jesus loves you in Christ. 1 Peter 2 Chapter. Stay close to the script. And He is close too u.
Here is my understanding of Hebrews 11:12
Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, (speaking of the deadness of the reproduction systems of Abraham and Sara), so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.
God produced descendants from Abraham and Sara that were as many as the sand on the seashores, from somebody who's dead.
That's faith because it's humanly impossible. And therefore it's God!
Dear Heavenly Father, we lift up before you Bob's son. In the name of Jesus we ask that you will bring healing to this son form covid and the flu and that his symptoms will be mild and not worsen over time. Bring him comfort and relief from these symptoms, good rest and all that only you can provide to bring him to health once again. Amen.
I am thinking that Hebrews 11:12 is saying that Abraham is the "father" of all who follow God by faith as did Noah (mentioned earlier) and all who came after Abraham who truly believed in God as the only way to be saved and the only god who is true to His word and promises, and the only God period. Through Abraham came Jesus, the promised "Seed" from Genesis 3, that will crush the evil one and His power. So, all who believe that it is God who will overcome sin, death, hell, and satan are Abraham's children, whether biologically descended from Him or not. It is those who have faith in God to save them who are truly Abraham's children.
All believers in Jesus are counted among these "children", but even better, all those, like Abraham who fully trusted in God to save them are blessed to be children of God.
What about those who have never heard?
I may have said a lot of this stuff before; hopefully there are a few nuances of difference. The scripture is always the best guide to answering tough questions. We have examples of Abraham called out of Ur of Chaldee; for example who was the father of all those of Monotheistic faith today. He was called in a foreign land; and given a future promise of a Promised Land as well as offspring who would inherit it ( Genesis 17:2 and repeated in Hebrews). He never got to dwell permanently anywhere but was a nomad in the desert and through miraculous means his wife of 90 conceived when he was 100.
When we look at the story of Sodom and Gomorrah; we could say that Abraham was having a sort of contest with God on a similar theme; His preservation of the city if a small number of righteous men lived there; he started with 50 men and ended at 10. This shows a theme which also was repeated with God waiting for a certain period until transgressions were full to judge in Genesis 15:16. Sodom was ripe for judgment as were the Amorites; but in their case it wasn't until four generations later and THAT along with Egypt being judged for their fullness of iniquity that finally bought the descendants to conquer the Promised Land. So God calls out His people wherever they are if they are chosen (predestined) to be His children. He will send angels or whatever means to reach the lost; and we see this happening again in the Book of Revelation. If we seek the God of the Bible then we have to believe His Word on our spiritual condition (as sinners) and we need to have it revealed to us (i.e. granted repentance as shown in Acts 11:18 and elsewhere.
The confession of our mouth and believe in our heart ( Romans 10:19) it is a RESULT of His Spirit working in us to convict of sin; righteousness and judgment to come ( John 16:8-11).
Conversion of course involves interaction and our choice to verbally repent.
I am convinced that God does hear your every prayer and does not delay to answer them. It may take time for all things to occur in the matter of "time". But in eternity, God hears and answers readily. May your family be healed of the mistreatments done against the little ones and seek God with all of their hearts now and forevermore.
When we are "conformed to the image of His Son" ( Romans 8:29) we see the concept of predestination and "first fruits" there; which would foreshadow a Rapture/Resurrection event. Another way to put it is that those who read the Beatitudes on a surface level or human level of understanding see a humanitarian sort of principle of for instance; how to be "peacemakers"; feed the poor; etc. ANYONE; even an atheist can do such things but it is only the Holiness of God through the Spirit after true conversion that gives us the reality of that in our souls. No amount of penance; self sacrifice or other actions can give us more of a desire for God's Holiness if it doesn't already exist in someone's soul! Nonetheless "faith without works is dead." ( James 2:17). Poducing fruit is essential for a true believer as we see with the Parable of the Sower and the seed.
There are also various levels of suffering in hell as well as rewards in heaven. We see this in Matthew 11:20-24 with several cities in mind. Also we see this in Matthew 13:8 as to the 30 fold and 100 fold producers (also see 1 Cor. 15:41).
I am fairly dogmatic as to those before the age of accountability not being punished for their sin NATURE since they haven't acted out the sin knowing that they are rebels against God. When we look at Romans 7:9-11; we understand this concept; and when we see the story of David and his son who died ( 2 Samuel 12:23) we see evidence of this amongst other places ( Psalm 8:2 for example).
Another way of looking at is is the verse "we will not have this man to rule over us." ( Luke 19:14). This is what all say who go against the Man who God has given all authority to in heaven and earth ( Matt. 28:18). If we disbelieve the living Word ( Heb. 4:12 etal) then we reject His authority and preservation as well as 2 Timothy 3:16 which states all scripture is breathed of God..
Or; Luke 10:16 rejecting you is rejecting me.
I may add that there are some that are not Calvinists nor Arminianist in the true sense of these words. Each viewpoint does have strong points and weaknesses, in my view. But, as you advise, I keep studying the Scriptures and hold them up to what people say.
In regards to the rest of what you stated, I agree! We are to hold out the gospel to all whom the Spirit leads us to share it with. We let the Holy Spirit do the rest, because only God knows who and how many will be saved in total and whom and how many will be forever lost without God's presence, grace, benevolence. Only His wrath.
It seems most on this site espouse a true heaven and hell and that people will be judged either to spend eternity in one or the other. But there are some on here who do not think that there is a hell and spiritualize the concept of heaven. But God does not dwell in a conceptual place. He is a real actual Being, and heaven is real, though spiritual place where heavenly being exist.
Also, many of these people are universalists, as you say, believing that all humans will be saved in the end. I am not one of them, but there have been posts by people who do fit into. that camp.
So, as Paul, told us, we are to watch our faith and doctrine carefully to be sure that we are, indeed, in and of the faith.
My prayer for all people on this forum is that they grow in grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ and His word given to us through Himself and through the Bible. I pray that people on this forum will earnestly seek Him in all ways, and advance in their love for Him and pursue Him in Scripture.
If we look into the whole issue of God predestining some for heaven and others for hell; we often refer to the term "double predestination". We need to keep in mind the verses such as hell was created for the Devil and his angels ( Matt. 25:41) and that God is not a respecter of men ( Romans 2:11 etc) as well as the fact that He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked. ( Ezekiel 18:23). As I stated recently; there IS rejoicing among the Godhead as well as God's people when the wicked are judged; as the earth is purged from corruption.
In regard then to the destruction of the wicked; it is because of sin that is not sought to be forgiven and that through the METHOD God has given; namely through the substitutionary atonement of the Son. Many remain stuck on that point as those of the true "Grace Gospel" expose when they still think they have some merit on righteousness of their own. Only the 100 percent wicked need a 100 percent Savior; it is an all or nothing proposition. We need to realize that Satan is the father of all those who are outside the faith. ( John 8:44). Someone may accept their own sin but try telling them that fact; or worse that is the fate of family members who are or were not believers and have passed. This is a serious concern among those who remember their relatives as they were; and if they saw them in torment it would hardly give them a nostalgic feeling. Realizing that apart from Christ we are only thinking of ourselves ultimately as our motivation isn't fun. Also realizing that putting SELF on the throne is exactly what Satan does to lureus as he himself has that mindset then we are quite humbled. These aren't fun things to ponder but it certainly does get our mind off all the chaos in this world; important as some issues are compared to the eternal fate of sinners.
Galatians 4:4
But when the fullness of time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made "under the law",
"Quotations" mine.
Jesus was made from the ovum of Mary and made under the law (according to THE MOSAIC LAW) his father was Joseph the husband of Mary. Not because Joseph "knew" his wife but because the law says so. Hallelujah. Fully Son of God and fully Son of man as Christ himself so often reiterated.
Whatever side of the whole issue one takes in regard to Predestination and free will; we all as Bible believers (unless Universalists)
accept that some in the end are saved; and some are lost. We shall also assume that we are not of the camp that doesn't believe in a literal hell (which; by default should cause an issue with a literal heaven); and finally we will accept that eternity means eternity; not some annihilation.
All would agree that there is a set number saved and lost in the end. Despite what may be assumed by some; there is still an impetus thrusting people out to proclaim the Gospel for "Arminians" and "Calvinists." In fact; looking at the history of Whitfield; for example and other reformers; as well as personal friends of mine who are all "Calvanists" it could be argued they are the majority of those evangelizing. The emphasis is on proclaiming the Good News and having the Spirit draw those forth who He will; rather than what some call "decisional regeneration." One could say that neither viewpoint or any in-between one in regrad to free will and predestination takes away for a true believer the infallibility of the entire text of 66 books of the Bible.
What is most vital; therefore is to take the entire Word of God and consume it. If we try to pigeonhole anything to fit into our understanding of a doctrine and disregard those seemingly contradictory verses then we are doing violence to scripture. Revelation 22:18-19 is a dire warning against that book at least; it should stand also to other violations of scripture.
Of course; if we are to start a Theocracy as some of the reformers did where men are forced to believe some tenet out of fear of man's punishment we are going against what we claim about God drawing all men to Himself ( John 12:32-33). The same thing can be said when peer or family pressure exists and/or someone is "culturally or born into" Christianity. When the Spirit prompts it IS time for decision.
...When Isaiah saw the Kingdom coming 9:6..he said unto us a Child is born unto us a son is given...THats when he refers to Jesus as everlasting Father...And a lil Child is gonna lead them....There is a Child in our future which is the H.G...As that which is born of the spirit is spirit via hearing his words..ok Gbu...Thats y he always refers to himself as the son of man...Which is mankinds fruit unto God... Romans 7:4
And the Lamb of God cd not be defiled by any man's seed...As all men carry the stain and the spot of Adam...There was none righteous no not one...
.....Them that are born of God cannot sin...Which was Jesus the Christ Child...God cd not instruct all the angels to worship his son if Joseph was his biological FATHER...Jesus knew what was in man thats y he wd not commit himself to man...Thats y it had to be a virgin birth...As all men carry the stain and the spot of adam...The Lamb of God had to be perfect in every way...
.....Thats y Jesus said satan cometh and has nothin in me...Simply b/c no man was his biological father...Thus Jesus had no propensity to sin like all other men....k
Looking further into this topic; we certainly should be "thrust out" to proclaim the Gospel with these eternal realities made clear to us. Unfortunately; with today's watered down; and/or politically correct version of scripture we are somehow believing that we can have our "best life now." We can more accurately say with the eternal weight of glory ( 2 Cor. 4:17) that we are living our "worst life now." What is best; however is realizing that our old life is DEAD ( Gal. 2:20) and that our life is in the Spirit. The fear of death no longer haunts us ( Heb. 2:14-15) so we are able to tell others the Good News.
Our thoughts need to be His thoughts; this gives us a clearer understanding of praying in the Spirit things that are honoring to God and truly petitioning what His covenants promise as servants of God. Trusting God even when we need to say or do things that go against our natural minds may be a process. If we DON'T seek Him on these tough topics; then really the only other method of "fire and brimstone" preaching is utilizing our self righteousness to stir up anger. Without the love of Christ; therefore we are truly a clanging cymbal. Only in His love can we demonstrate that He has overcome the world within our own hearts and souls. When the love of Christ causes all sorts of resistance ( Matt. 5:44) then we truly are heaping coals of fire on someone ( Romans 12:20 quoting Prov. 25). To overcome; therefore we must avoid at all costs any of our own self-righteousness and anger; nonetheless a holy indignation is certainly necessary in many cases when the nation at large is so wicked. In conclusion; therefore there are national and corporate sins; and individual which both involve a call but for those chosen the truth is opened up. Let it be therefore the Spirit not us which is the two-edged sword ( Heb. 4:12) and not our own cutting words.
Have a blessed day.
Agape. RIch P
In Psalm 2; we see that God laughs at the calamity of the wicked. This is repeated in Psalm 37 and 59 and I believe elsewhere in scripture. We don't have the prerogative as the Lord does for such an attitude. This doesn't mean; however that we won't rejoice in God's judgments of the wicked. Also as Isaiah 66 makes clear; we will see those in hell and they will be an abhorrence.
Romans 5:10 indicates how we all were enemies of God. We are commanded to love our enemies; as well as "pray for those who despitefully use you" ( Matt. 5:44). This isn't possible; of course apart from the Spirit living in us. But we note as well that we are aware of who our enemies are; namely those opposing Christ.
We need to differentiate as well between that which is spoken to the masses (those called) with an individual message (to those who are chosen). We are all in a STATE of sin; which is common to this world system; as is described in James 3:15 as the "world; flesh and the devil." The world which promises "freedom" makes us captive; whereas when we are servants of Christ we are truly set free. To hate the sin and love the sinner therefore is more of an aversion to the state of sin even than to their individual participation in it. We can flip the tables on this and state that the love of Christ is more focused on the BODY of Christ than any individual member of it; that is if we wish to find a church with balanced gifting.
Ultimately; then the final fate for the unregenerate is in a perpetual state of sin; and therefore they are just one of a whole pile of garbage; spiritually. Hence is the allegory of Gehenna in scripture given as a comparison to eternal hellfire; where they used to toss the trash outside the city. Rev. 11:18 is even fitting for environmentalists; God will "destroy those who destroy the earth." Animals as well will feast at Armageddon.
The world is getting darker.
Think of a pitch black room with no electricity. Now light a match.that's you. You are that light in the darkness. Sometimes a match, sometimes a blow torch,
.....Thats y our lord had no Propensity to sin simply b/c God Almighty was his biological Father...The word made flesh and blood...Had Joseph been his biological father he wd have been a sinner like all men...Almighty God tells us this is my beloved son in whom i am well pleased...As Jesus was the living WORD ( God ) made flesh and blood...Acts... Feed the Church of God that he has purchased with his own blood...Not mans Blood...It was Gods Blood the blood of Jesus....My Father and i are 1...ok lemme go
.....All men have this horrible Propensity to sin. None righteous no not ONE... but Jesus had no Propensity to sin...Simply b/c God Almighty was his ABSOLUTE Father THAT CANNOT SIN...And he that is born of God cannot sin...Which was Christ Jesus.
a. Numbers chapter 5. The Jealousy Offering that was required involved a long process of questioning & testing. Though, as you say, Joseph would have considered this due to a possible suspicion of his wife, I don't believe he would have ever proceeded with it.
b. Matthew 1:20,21. If it were not for the angelic assurance that the Seed in Mary was implanted by the Holy Spirit & not by any man, Joseph could well have entertained other options with great despair.
Therefore, I don't believe that the matter proceeded further than this. That Joseph, with the assurance & comfort from the Lord, believed that the impossible was made possible & now became a fact; and that it was incumbent upon him to offer no further questions on the matter but accept the status quo, & honor his promise to Mary. He would then always be a guardian to the Child Jesus, though to others in the society, seen as Jesus' biological father with a clear ancestral line to David.
Trust that He is with you every second.
Hope this helped you. Saw that you had not received a reply. That's why I answered. Be well and look up to Him to whom all glory is due. Jesus loves you in Christ. 1 Peter 2 Chapter. Stay close to the script. And He is close too u.