Interpretation of the verse "there is no fear in love"
1 John 4:16-18
"16-And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. 17-Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. 18-There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love"
What does it mean that "one dwells in love, in God?" It means that they love both God and people, especially their brethern.
1. How is it shown that we love God? Answer, John 14:21, "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.". So our love for God is shown when we obey His commandments
2. How is it shown that we love our brethern? Answer, 1 John 3:16-18, "16-Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. 17-But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him? 18-My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth."
3. What is preceding, love for God or love for our brethern? 1 John 4:20-21, "20-If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? 21-And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also"
4. What are the consequences if I hate my brethern? 1 John 3:14-15, "14-We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. he that loveth NOT his brother abideth in DEATH. 15-Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him"
1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
(God stands in the congregation of the mighty people, the Lords and Judges of the nation of Israel, He judges between the mighty people that have authority on people's lives like they are Gods themselves, to imprison or to set free, to Kill or to spare life, God's representatives on Israel.)
2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.
(But although I placed you in my position, in the position of the righteous God, you don't judge justly, ...)
3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
(no interpretation needed)
4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
(no interpretation needed)
5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
(no interpretation needed)
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
( I have said that you are like God to people, it is like you are Gods yourselves, as if you were my children, you stand in my position, you have been given the power and the authority to rule and judge on Israel like God does).
7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
(But because you are unjust princes my punishment will eventually come to you)
Hi Ruby , John chapter 14 is one of the clearest and simplest in the Bible , it explains , in Christ's own words , the relationship between us and Jesus and the Holy One of Israel , it doesn't leave much to interpretation . Like lots of Christians , you and I differ in some of our beliefs and yet also believe some things the same . God will be all in all , is this what you mean when you say that we shall be God's ? We won't be The God of all creation , we shall be like Him , as Jesus is now like Him , God will be all in all , that's pretty plain and clear to me . John chapter 14 , it says it all I think . May God bless us all with eyes to see and ears to hear and open hearts and minds as we journey together towards our promised destination . Love in Christ , from me and mine to you and yours .
GiGi ...Abraham Isaac and Jacob and the 12 tribes followed by the nation of ISRAEL....Is a beautful picture of multiplication and regeneration by God almighty....Just as Abraham offered up his only son so did God Almighty offered up his only son Jesus thus came that Promise of multiplication that Christ who is God wd be multiplied as the stars of heaven....Just as there was a natural Israel there has to be an Israel of God which are spirits as Jesus said that which is born of the spirit is spirits...As God is spirit the H.G. PLURAL....And i will pour out of my spirit on all flesh....Which is the gift of God to all of humanity at the last trump when the book is opened....We are gonna be married to God making us 1 with God....Thats y Jesus is saying blessed are them that follow me in the regeneration when the Son of man is revealed....Regeneration is multiplication of his seed the word the very seed of God to whom the word came ( his seed ) it made them Gods and the scripture cannot be broken
Just as Jacob's name was changed to Israel... the H.G. which is spirit the 3 RD PERSON is the ISRAEL OF GOD as Isaiah 49 tells us...There is truly gonna be an ISRAEL OF God from that good seed of Christ the word an order of Gods is the Israel of God that is gonna be born in everyman Jew or Gentile...By 1 spirit are we all baptised into the body of Christ Jew or Gentile...By the seed of Christ, That Living word ..God will be born in the hearts of everyman at the last trump...
Only the devil will tell you that man and God will neva be made 1...( There will neva be a marriage making man and God 1 ) I will make a man more precious then Gold...Even the golden wedge of Ophir...Simply b/c mankind is gonna birth a baby Christ the H.G. that Child of Promise...The vert fact that Jesus tells us The Kingdom of God is gona be within us means we are gonna be made 1 with God...impling a marriage to God almighty, i rest my case in Jesus name the bridegroom. impling multiplication TY Jesus.
Hi everyone , John chapter 14 is very clear on the relationships between us and Christ and God. It leaves no room really for any interpretation . I'm not sure what the big discussion is about but John chapter 14 should clear it all up pretty quick .
May I ask a genuine question please ? If you believe that Jesus is God , and that when he returns to earth we shall be fashioned / made to be as he is , then.......?
GBU GiGi and Spencer i love ya....But what you are telling me is mankind will neva be married to God....But thats how man will become God...As Ephsians 5:30 tells us we are gonna be married to God ...Christ...Bone of his bone and flesh of his flesh...You guys are not thinking about the marriage ...A marriage is when 2 are made 1...Thats y the sower will go forth to sow his precious seed in us, that we might birth a new Innerman which are the Children of Promise the H.G. We are gonna be made 1 with God....Don't ya remember his prayer in John 17....Father make them 1 as we are 1...The marriage... from Gen to Rev...If ya had the H.G. you cd see this truth.
God Almighty was so passionate about this multiplication of Christ ... Gen. 22:17..( Jesus is God the son ) that he swore by his very self....And thats y the sower of the good seed wants to sow his precious seed in the hearts of humanity....The field being the world...Thats y Jesus is saying to whom the Word came it made them Gods....And the scripture cannot be broken....Like GiGi and Spencer is trying to do.. they cannot help it b/c these things are hid from the wise and prudent but revealed unto babes...Which is mankinds fruit unto God...The very reason the woman is giving birth in Rev 12:5 is b/c of the Sower and his seed...The Kingdom of God does not come till the woman gives birth to the Children.
When Jesus was born it was the multiplication of God in Mary...God was the fruit of her womb. He always refers to himself as the son of man is indicative that mankind is gona birth a baby Christ....Thats y he is saying unless you receive the Kingdon of God as a lil Child you will in no wise enter there in...Remember Jesus said that which is born of the spirit tis spirit...Thats the H.G. the Children of Promise....The multiplication of very God in humanity...REMEMBER GOD SWORE BY HIMSELF THAT Christ was gonna be multiplied....Remember Jesus said blessed are them that follow me in the Regeneration...God 1 with Man
Hi Jimbob. That's a good question. True believers with the Holy Spirit within them, One Who will lead them into all Truth, will always believe & declare what is true as revealed to them from God's Word. There maybe differences of opinion but that may come when the Scriptures aren't clear on the subject or very little information given. But when the Scriptures are clear on the major doctrines such as of the Godhead, of Sin, of Salvation, of Judgement, of Eternity, etc., there can be no doubt as the Bible is profuse with undeniable proofs.
When false teaching is given, either the false unregenerate teacher is under control of another spirit, or the believing teacher is convinced that the right position that he holds on a subject, must be what the Scripture teaches; whereas the opposite is true: what the Scripture teaches, must be what we ought to believe. In other words, his mind dictates his belief & therefore forces the Scriptures to fit his teaching. And those unlearned in the Word, can be easily convinced by such contorting of Scriptures, mixed with the teacher's oratory & emotive expressions and thus be led astray.
The Church during the apostolic days as even today, are warned of such dangers & to be alert & deal with such intrusions before they go viral & render God's people ignorant, ineffective, casting aside the Truths from God's Word. We've seen the proliferation of groups that have laid aside the teaching given within the Bible to bring out their own interpretations to fulfil their own purposes. And this they do to the destruction of their own souls & of others. But when believers begin studying & searching the Word for themselves, leaving the human intellect & imaginations aside, then Truth will begin to surface & release them from the errors they've received. Our beloved S. Spencer & Gigi have shared some important Truths lately around the question you raised here.
Our holiness is not of us. It is not ours to be destroyed by sin. It is not ours to suffer from attack. Darkness can obscure it, but cannot put out its radiance, nor dim its light. It stands forever perfect and untouched. In it are all things healed, for it remains as God created it. And we can know our holiness. For Holiness Itself created us. And we can know our Source, because it is God's Will that He BE known. God will never decide against you, or He would be deciding against Himself. There is no second to God. There cannot, therefore, be anyone without his Holiness, nor anyone unworthy of His perfect Love. You are NOT guiltless in time, but in eternity. You have "sinned" in the past, but there is no past. The past is what we have taught our self; let it all go. God is always and only in the the eternal present. Thou shalt have no other gods, because there is none.
I've been reading some of your comments which I perceive as being towards someone who appears to think we are also gods. I hope you are not including me in this because I don't think I've said as such. Without searching back to my previous posts, I've stated or strongly suggested and purposely meant we are created in God's likeness, which agrees with scripture in Genesis. And of course you cannot deny it when the Bible says "God is Spirit." and, "God is Love." Therefore anything in God's likeness must be spirit and love, not a god nor even flesh. Thus in God's likeness we must have His attributes.
I'm intrigued why Spencer mentioned at one point some of God's loving attributes in which we are to strive in developing as ours, yet he never mentioned along with them the negative attributes you both obviously believe are also of God, i.e. fear, wrath, vengeance, punishment, condemnation, separation, rejection, etc. Surely then, should we not pursue those also? Or is it possible you realize we've mastered those characteristics already? And you would be correct. What attributes are left then for Satan? You must have faith that the "devil" has something in common with God. Very illogical and impossible.
We know, don't we, it is biblical that creatures and plants produce in their likeness? It is highly unlikely a frog produces a snake or a reptile produces a mammal. Or as in James, a fig tree makes olives? No.
One can project via the ego the fearful negative characteristics belonging to your OWN thinking mind onto a Holy God, but can never make them true. I admit though it would be convenient for the ego to believe this, for now the ego can justify its attacks on our brothers and consider it as righteousness through damnation.
Thank you S. Spencer for the article you posted and for your thoughts about this dangerous and damning false doctrine.
It is dangerous because it will cause people who believe it to believe falsely about God's' divinity and character. It is damning because those who believe it are committing the same sin as Satan did in thinking he could attain to be equal with God and even usurp Him. He will never be forgiven for this sin. There is no grace for Satan. He is forever damned. How can anyone think that God will not deal with humans who persist in the same sin any differently than He deals with Satan.
As to the article on theosis, it was very informative concerning this doctrine that has been re-affirmed over and over again through the centuries. I agree with it. Our theosis is by association with Jesus through grace. We partake of the divine nature through our union with Christ. We never change our substance as humans and become divine. But, by the sanctifying grace of God through the Holy Spirit in us, we become more and more perfected humanity, like that of Jesus' humanity, with the end goal being the attainment of the highest degree of Christlikeness possible for a human to become. We'll become perfected humanity in the resurrection. But we will not have any divinity in our nature. Divinity belongs wholly and solely to God and Him alone.
As believers we should greatly desire to be the most like Jesus as is possible, on the one hand, but on the other hand, we should be humble and realize that God is so different and so unlike us that we can only apprehend Him through Jesus. We definitely NOT desire to be gods. That comes from pride, the same pride that caused Satan to fall from his high position in heaven as a created being. He will occupy the lowest position in all of creation in the lake of fire. Those who think like him will join him there, also.
The attributes of God. While the scriptures teach that God's people are to progressively become more Godlike in character, they do not teach that they will or can become God in the essential traits and elements which constitute deity. God is self-existent ( Jn. 5: 26), enjoys eternality ( Rom. 1: 20), has unlimited power ( Matt. 19: 26), infinite knowledge ( Acts 2: 23, 15: 18), absolute holiness, and truthfulness ( I Jn. 1: 5, Heb. 6: 18). Moreover, God has creative power ( Rom. 11: 36). To teach graduated Godhead, there must of necessity be the attendant teaching of polytheism or many gods. Again, we quote Joseph Smith:
"Hence, the doctrine of a plurality of Gods is as prominent in the Bible as any other doctrine. It is all over the face of the Bible . . . Paul says there are Gods many and Lords many . . . but to us there is but one God--that is pertaining to us; and he is in all and through all" (History of the Church, Vol. 6, page 474). "In the beginning, the head of the Gods called a council of the Gods; and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and people it." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 5).
Beloved, the scriptures teach and affirm there is only one God ( Deut. 4: 35-39). The state of Godhead, being God, consists of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit ( Rom. 1: 7, Heb. 1: 8, Acts 5: 4, 5). God declared: "that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me" ( Isa. 43: 10). Before God, there was no God. After God there shall be no God formed. Hence, man cannot so develop and graduate as to become God himself.
AGAIN!
Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, NEITHER SHALL THERE BE AFTER ME.
There are different religions extant which teach that Godhood is a graduated experience (God was once man) and that man can actually attain the level of Godhood. The number of religions which teach this is increasing as more polytheistic, Eastern religions are being introduced to America. Joseph Smith (founder of Mormonism) taught the following:
"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted Man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens...I say, if you were to see him to-day, you would see him like a man in form -- like yourselves, in all the person, image, and very form as a man....it is necessary that we should understand the character and being of God, and how he came to be so; for I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity, I will refute that idea, and will take away and do away the veil, so that you may see....and that he was once a man like us; yea, that God himself the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth the same as Jesus Christ himself did." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 3).
Verses used to teach man can become God. The apostle Peter wrote of being "partakers of the divine nature" ( 2 Pet. 1: 4). A careful study of the text reveals the apostle is teaching that we are to acquire traits of God, such as "godliness," "virtue,", etc. (vs. 5-11). Indeed, we are to be Godlike and partake of the divine nature in this sense. Jesus used the word god in an accommodative sense in John 10: 34, 35. "God," as used in John 10 and Psalms 82: 6, is applied to superior people, rulers. Jesus, however, is not teaching that these rulers had become God as God is God.
check out "The Bibel Project" on youtube, it's very helpful to understand most all things about the bible, history, characters, etc. It's full of easy to understand visuals, good for an overview of the bible and concepts, they even break down each individual book of the bible.
Participation also implies difference. God does not simply have more power than man, God's power is of a wholly different kind. The same goes for all of God's attributes: presence, knowledge, love, goodness, etc. God's presence is also entirely unlike that of us human persons, as we must be in a particular place, while God is everywhere. So to say than God is present at church is not the same thing as saying a man is present at church. Similarly, even if a man were to somehow know all things, he would not be omniscient in the way God is. God knows all things as their creator - their first cause. This gives God a kind of knowledge man will never have, even if man could in theory learn all facts.
In saving mankind, God's grace does not destroy nature, but perfects it; yet, even a perfected human nature is still limited to being what it is. It will always remain finite - and the distance between finite and infinite is so great that it is not a difference so much as a complete distinction. The same will always be true of God and man. God is absolutely unique and the infinite chasm between the Creator and the creature can never be crossed. It is clear from the writings of those who make such statements that no orthodox theologian is confused on this point, and such statements need to be read with the above distinctions in mind.
"If anyone desire in this way to be Godlike, he commits no sin; provided that he desires such likeness in proper order, that is to say, that he may obtain it of God. But he would sin were he to desire to be like unto God even in the right way, as of his own, and not of God's power." (Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologi I, Q.63, A.3)
End Article.
If the notion that we all will become Gods is not sinister enough, there's those amongst us that say ALL men become Gods no matter what you have done, and there are no consequences for sin!
Saints Augustine and Aquinas are the heaviest of the theological heavyweights in the Church. Their theological qualifications concerning deification can be applied to similar statements of orthodox theologians, apologists, doctors, and saints of the Church even when they do not indicate it in every particular statement. (Note: even when this distinction is not stated plainly, it is most often implied by terms such as "of" or "with" that can be easily glossed over if one is not looking for them.)
But what does this notion of participation mean?
The distinction between participation in grace and generation by nature is critical if one is to understand what these orthodox theologians are saying - one that, if missed or misunderstood, can lead to the kind of metaphysical confusion one finds in Mormonism or the Word Faith movement.
Here an illustration might help. St. John of Damascus speaks of being our "inflamed and deified by the participation in the divine fire." Fire makes for a good analogy for participation. Consider a frying pan being heated over a fire. When the pan is put into contact with fire, it participates in the fire's heat (i.e., it becomes hot). Now, the heat of the fire is what the fire is by nature, but the heat of the pan is that which it has by participation. When fire heats the pan, heat can be said to be part of what the pan is - but both the fire and the pan remain unchanged according to their basic natures. The pan becomes hot but it never becomes fire - hot or not, it remains a pan. Because both the fire and the pan can be said to "be" heat, there is an analogical sense in which the pan can be said to "be" fire - but this must be understood as referring literally to the pan's participation in the fire's heat - not that the pan literally becomes fire by nature. In the same way that we can say (accurately, but only analogically), that the pan can "become" fire, we can say that man can "become" God.
The rest that are made gods, are made by His own Grace, are not born of His Substance, that they should be the same as He, but that by favor they should come to Him, and be fellow-heirs with Christ. (Exposition on Psalm 50, 2)"
St. Thomas Aquinas is helpful here as well, because he more regularly states the qualifications that are needed. Note that in the quotes below, the highlighted statements sound quite "clear" until clarifying terms such as "sharers in" or "participation in" are added into the equation. Throughout his writings, Aquinas is adamant that the ontological distance between God and man (or any creature) is so far (namely, infinite!) that the two cannot even be compared on the same scale. God is so utterly "other" than mankind that human knowledge cannot comprehend God's essence, nor can our language adequately communicate God's essence.
Aquinas's language concerning deification, then, must be understood in accordance with this position. Thus, in his theology of deification, he says things such as this:
But the Son did not love the disciples in either of these ways. For he did not love them to the point of their being gods by nature, nor to the point that they would be united to God so as to form one person with him. But he did love them up to a similar point: he loved them to the extent that they would be gods by their participation in grace "I say, 'You are gods'" ( Ps 82:6); "He has granted to us precious and very great promises, that through these you may become partakers of the divine nature" ( 2 Pet 1:4) and he loved them to the extent that they would be united to God in affection: "He who is united to the Lord becomes one spirit with him" ( 1 Cor. 6:17); "For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son" ( Rom 8:29). Thus the Father communicated to the Son a greater good, with respect to each nature of the Son, than the Son did to his disciples; yet there is a similarity, as was said.
These passages suggest what theologians have called the "Formula of Exchange" a teaching directly tied to the role of Jesus' Incarnation's in our salvation. However, neither these nor any other verses mean that human nature can be changed into the divine nature of God. What they mean is that human nature can partake in the divine nature of God.
So, if quotes from Church fathers, doctors, saints, popes, etc. are found that seem to indicate otherwise, they are not being understood correctly. While it is easy to compile quotes from various writers that "clearly" state that man can become God, there is always a theological context that must be kept in mind.
The guiding principle concerning these sorts of statements is that when divinity is predicated of humanity, it is according to participation in grace, not to generation by nature. In other words, "divinity" in these cases does not refer to a change in what something is, but rather what it is like. For example, when we participate in the Eucharist, we "become the body of Christ" (see 1 Cor. 10:16-17) but we do not become the divine savior of the world!
St. Augustine makes this all-important distinction clear when he says,
He has called men gods, that are deified of His Grace, not born of His Substance. For He does justify, who is just through His own self, and not of another; and He does deify who is God through Himself, not by the partaking of another. But He that justifies does Himself deify, in that by justifying He does make sons of God. "For He has given them power to become the sons of God." John 1:12 If we have been made sons of God, we have also been made gods: but this is the effect of Grace adopting, not of nature generating. For the only Son of God, God, and one God with the Father, Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, was in the beginning the Word, and the Word with God, the Word God. The rest that are made gods, are made by His own Grace, are not born of His Substance,
Man will always be finite, even as his nature is perfected by God's grace
DOUGLAS M. BEAUMONT 9/23/2019
Part 1.
One thing that saints like Athanasius, Augustine, Anselm, and Aquinas all have in common is that they asserted that creatures can become God. This idea is also reflected in the Catechism of the Catholic Church: "The Son of God became man so that we might become God" (CCC 460). Both Saints Irenaeus in the West and Maximus in the East made similar assertions-in fact, they are who the Catechism cites.
How is this teaching not heretical, or completely insane?
The idea that man can become God has been called "Theosis," "Deification," or "Divinization," and it actually has a solid pedigree among orthodox theologians, apologists, fathers, doctors, and saints of the Church. But where did they get this idea? After all, Scripture clearly teaches that there is only one God. This is evident from writings in both testaments including historical, prophetic, poetic books as well as gospels and epistles (e.g., Dt. 6:4, 2 Kgs. 19:19; Isa. 45:5; Ps. 86:10; Jn. 5:44; 1 Cor. 8:4; etc.). Further, it is clear from Scripture that men are not God and vice versa (e.g., Num. 23:19; 1 Sam. 15:29; Hos. 11:9, etc.).
However, Scripture also teaches that man can become God-like.
"I say, 'You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you'" ( Ps. 82:6 cf. Jn. 10:34)
"The glory which thou hast given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, I in them and thou in me, that they may become perfectly one" ( Jn. 17:22-23)
"Know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God" ( Eph. 3:19)
"You may escape from the corruption that is in the world because of passion, and become partakers of the divine nature" ( 2 Pet. 1:4)
"Beloved, we are God's children now; it does not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that when he appears we shall be like him" ( 1 Jn. 3:2)
Nor have question your level or spirituality. But as it is, I am not at all fazed nor deterred by your estimation of me.
Lastly, I will say that when you continue to put together a cacophony of bits of Scripture ripped out of context mixed with your own erroneous doctrinal ideas and repeatedly post it over and over again, this in no way transforms your false ideas into truth. Nor does doing this repetition offer any sound proofs of your ideas. Your hermeneutics lack logic and correct application of the Scriptures leading to interpretations that are out of sync with Scriptures and common Christian thought.
You may not like it when I say this about your ideas. I can understand that. I enjoy conversing with you on the rare occasions you do not wax into your usual monologue of false ideas. I think that we have much more we can talk about besides this too often repeated narrative of yours. I invite you to discuss other matters of faith besides this with me and others on this site.
All of this is said in love, as I take all of what you say to me is said in love, too. We are brethren, neither of us are reprobates and we have the same Holy Spirit within us to guide us, sanctify us, and change us to become more and more like Jesus in His perfect humanity. This same Spirit can bring us to the unity of the faith. I pray for that whenever I think of you. God bless you tonight.
My hands are getting tired from typing, but not too bad. Glad to be able to use both hands somewhat now.
I was copying and pasting so fast I didn't realize it when I came to the end.
I've noticed something very sinister about some false speakers when you are amongst the worst! They don't have to fully agree with one another in their deception in order to bless one another's mission. They just have one thing in common and that is to stand in the way of truth.
GIVING THEM GOD SPEED.
The word God speed is found in only one passage in the Bible, and only in the King James Version: "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds" ( 2 John 1:10-11). Here John is warning believers against receiving false teachers or contributing to the success of anyone bearing a false gospel. To bid a false teacher "godspeed" is to express a wish for his success. Although we should love all people and desire their welfare, we cannot be faithful to the truth and at the same time wish the enemies of truth success in their endeavors. As John says, extending hospitality to a false teacher is to share in his work of falsehood.
Your doctrine that God replicates or multiplies Himself in believers also is not taught in Scripture. The promise to Abraham was that his descendants would be multiplied greatly, not that God would multiply Himself in people. Believers have the Holy Spirit indwelling them. This is such a wonderful privilege and blessing. But having God indwell a person is not the same as God being incarnated in someone. Jesus was God incarnated in humanity, He did not take over an already existing person. He is one Person with two natures, a divine nature that He always existed as, and a human nature that He took onto Himself when He was conceived in Mary's womb. Without the Person of the Son being in the flesh of Jesus, there would be no human person of Jesus.
When the Holy Spirit regenerates us, making our own human spirit come alive, He then dwells in us. But He is never us, and we are never Him. There is only one Father, one Son, and one Holy Spirit who together are the One True God, always have been and always will be thus. God will not share His glory with any other being, nor His divinity, nor His Person. He doesn't divide Himself up among believers nor does He multiply Himself in each believers, especially as you say, by impregnating a human to give birth to a baby Holy Spirit or baby Christ, a new creation. God is not a creation. He creates all things. But anything that is a creature (being) is not divine and never will be a god.
Part 5 REPROBATES
Alex, in your post you seemed to say that anyone who does not believe as you do is a reprobate (which is a morally wicked person and destined for damnation by definition) and certainly not as spiritual as those who think like you. What an awful thing to intimate about those who are brethren here. I have said that your ideas are false teachings and that when you continue to reiterate the same ideas over and over again makes you a false teacher, but I have never questioned your standing before God.
In order to judge anything RIGHTLY in regards to the fruit one produces AND his eternal outcome and relationship with his Creator, one would have to be fully aware of an inconceivably wide range of things; past, present and to come. One would have to recognize in advance all the effects of HIS /HER judgments on everyone and everything involved in them in any way. And one would have to be certain there is no distortion in his/her perception, so that their judgement would be wholly fair to everyone on whom it rests now and in the future. Who is in a position to do this? Who except in grandiose fantasies would claim this for himself or herself?
One party might teach God is Love, mixed in with fear and hate, acceptance and rejection, award and punishment, eternity in heaven and in hell, peace and conflict, some are special yet some are not, inclusion and exclusion, and on and on and on.
Another party may teach God is ONLY Love along with acceptance and not rejection. Only awards in Heaven eternal. Only peace without conflict, and that the specialness of God's creation does not stem from exclusion, but inclusion.
You get the picture: One party's teaching is obviously confusing, promoting that there Is fear in Love, causing strain to its listeners, because obviously he/she is listening to two opposing voices, thus speaking out of both sides of the mouth.
The other party, teaching only LOVE is very clear and decisive because its thought system does not oppose itself. No strain here, which will lead to peace and understanding. He or she is listening to only One Voice Who sees His creation as guiltless, not guilty.
NOW there is NO fear in Love.
The choice to judge rather than to know is the cause of the loss of peace. Judgment is the process on which perception but not knowledge rests. God is the only Cause and He is NOT the author of fear. His only judgment on His children is innocent. Love creates only in Its Own Likeness.
John 10:34-36 says, "Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God."
Jesus here was not affirming that the judges spoken of in this quote from Psalm 82 were actually gods, but was being ironic in stating the obvious that these judges were wicked and not gods, but yet the religious leaders would say that He was blaspheming God by saying that He was God's Son. The religious leaders were accepting of what was said in Psalm 82 as the Word of God that came to the writer of the Psalm and that the words of God are not to be set aside, but they were unwilling to accept what Jesus said about Himself, even though they could find no wickedness in Him that would disqualify Him as either speaking for God or from being the Son of God.
Those who quote Psalm 82 to support that men can become gods rarely include the part about these so-called "gods" (judges) were wicked and humans who would die as all men do. This passage in Psalms (and Jesus was alluding to the whole psalm when He quoted part of it) in no way support any doctrine that men can become gods.
To attempt to deify humans inevitably demeans God and brings Him down to the level of humans. Those who teach deification of humans fail to understand that God is so high above anything else in essence, character, power, and glory. If they did they would realize how ludicrous it is to teach that men can become divine. And if one teaches that men become divine but not to the degree of what God is, is to teach that their are different levels of deity and therefore other gods besides the true God, which goes against what God has revealed about his singularity in Scriptures.
Because the teaching of the godhood of humans usurp God's sole position as the only God in all things.
"They know not, neither will they understand; they walk in darkness; all the foundations of the earth are out of course. I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the Most High. But ye shall die like men; and fall like one of the princes. Arise, O God, judge the earth; for thou shalt inherit all nations."
Here the judges appointed over Israel were called "gods" because they represented God before the people when they judged matters. But God speaks ill of them because they were wicked and made unjust judgments. He was not affirming that they were indeed, divine beings, nor that they would or could become so. No, rather, God was judging them to be mere men who will face death as every human will.
In Acts 14:11-15 says, "And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia; The gods have come down to us in the likeness of men. And they called Barnabas, Jupiter, and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker. Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people. Which when the apostles, Barnabus and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out, And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein."
Here, the people were so sure that Paul and Barnabas must be gods because they had miraculously healed a crippled man. But the apostles were grieved that the people would treat them as gods and wished to sacrifice to them. They refused such worship and pointed the people to the living God instead.
The MacArthur New Testament Commentary on Matthew 7:15-20
Part 5.
They have a ready hearing among most people, because they say only what people like to hear. Just as did ancient Israel in Jeremiah's time, people today like it that way ( Jer. 5:31). They want to hear illusions, not truth. They are enamored with pleasure and fantasy and resent being confronted with anything disquieting and condemnatory. They want encouragement but not correction, positive words but not negative truth. They will accept grace as long as it is cheap grace and does not reflect against their own sinfulness, inadequacies, and lostness.
The creed of the false prophet, if he has any at all, will be vague, indefinite, and ethereal. No demanding truth will be absolute or clear-cut, and every principle will be easy and attractive.
False prophets can also be identified by their converts and followers. They will attract to themselves people who have the same superficial, self-centered, and unscriptural orientation as they do. "Many will follow their sensuality:" Peter tells us, "and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned" ( 2 Pet. 2:2). They have many followers because they teach and promote what the majority of people want to hear and believe (cf. 2 Tim. 4:3).
Their followers will be like them-egotistical, proud, self-centered, self-indulgent, self-willed, and self-satisfied, while being religious. They will be both self-oriented and group-oriented, but never God-oriented or Scripture-oriented.
God has not ordained false prophets, but He has ordained that they exist. Paul explains to the Corinthian church, "There must also be factions among you, in order that those who are approved may have become evident among you" ( 1 Cor. 11:19). False factions will act as magnets to attract others who are false. In that indirect way they will help protect true believers by partly separating the chaff from the wheat.
Interpretation of the verse "there is no fear in love"
1 John 4:16-18
"16-And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. 17-Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. 18-There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love"
What does it mean that "one dwells in love, in God?" It means that they love both God and people, especially their brethern.
1. How is it shown that we love God? Answer, John 14:21, "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.". So our love for God is shown when we obey His commandments
2. How is it shown that we love our brethern? Answer, 1 John 3:16-18, "16-Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. 17-But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him? 18-My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth."
3. What is preceding, love for God or love for our brethern? 1 John 4:20-21, "20-If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? 21-And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also"
4. What are the consequences if I hate my brethern? 1 John 3:14-15, "14-We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. he that loveth NOT his brother abideth in DEATH. 15-Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him"
1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
(God stands in the congregation of the mighty people, the Lords and Judges of the nation of Israel, He judges between the mighty people that have authority on people's lives like they are Gods themselves, to imprison or to set free, to Kill or to spare life, God's representatives on Israel.)
2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.
(But although I placed you in my position, in the position of the righteous God, you don't judge justly, ...)
3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
(no interpretation needed)
4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
(no interpretation needed)
5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
(no interpretation needed)
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
( I have said that you are like God to people, it is like you are Gods yourselves, as if you were my children, you stand in my position, you have been given the power and the authority to rule and judge on Israel like God does).
7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
(But because you are unjust princes my punishment will eventually come to you)
Just as Jacob's name was changed to Israel... the H.G. which is spirit the 3 RD PERSON is the ISRAEL OF GOD as Isaiah 49 tells us...There is truly gonna be an ISRAEL OF God from that good seed of Christ the word an order of Gods is the Israel of God that is gonna be born in everyman Jew or Gentile...By 1 spirit are we all baptised into the body of Christ Jew or Gentile...By the seed of Christ, That Living word ..God will be born in the hearts of everyman at the last trump...
Only the devil will tell you that man and God will neva be made 1...( There will neva be a marriage making man and God 1 ) I will make a man more precious then Gold...Even the golden wedge of Ophir...Simply b/c mankind is gonna birth a baby Christ the H.G. that Child of Promise...The vert fact that Jesus tells us The Kingdom of God is gona be within us means we are gonna be made 1 with God...impling a marriage to God almighty, i rest my case in Jesus name the bridegroom. impling multiplication TY Jesus.
God Almighty was so passionate about this multiplication of Christ ... Gen. 22:17..( Jesus is God the son ) that he swore by his very self....And thats y the sower of the good seed wants to sow his precious seed in the hearts of humanity....The field being the world...Thats y Jesus is saying to whom the Word came it made them Gods....And the scripture cannot be broken....Like GiGi and Spencer is trying to do.. they cannot help it b/c these things are hid from the wise and prudent but revealed unto babes...Which is mankinds fruit unto God...The very reason the woman is giving birth in Rev 12:5 is b/c of the Sower and his seed...The Kingdom of God does not come till the woman gives birth to the Children.
When Jesus was born it was the multiplication of God in Mary...God was the fruit of her womb. He always refers to himself as the son of man is indicative that mankind is gona birth a baby Christ....Thats y he is saying unless you receive the Kingdon of God as a lil Child you will in no wise enter there in...Remember Jesus said that which is born of the spirit tis spirit...Thats the H.G. the Children of Promise....The multiplication of very God in humanity...REMEMBER GOD SWORE BY HIMSELF THAT Christ was gonna be multiplied....Remember Jesus said blessed are them that follow me in the Regeneration...God 1 with Man
When false teaching is given, either the false unregenerate teacher is under control of another spirit, or the believing teacher is convinced that the right position that he holds on a subject, must be what the Scripture teaches; whereas the opposite is true: what the Scripture teaches, must be what we ought to believe. In other words, his mind dictates his belief & therefore forces the Scriptures to fit his teaching. And those unlearned in the Word, can be easily convinced by such contorting of Scriptures, mixed with the teacher's oratory & emotive expressions and thus be led astray.
The Church during the apostolic days as even today, are warned of such dangers & to be alert & deal with such intrusions before they go viral & render God's people ignorant, ineffective, casting aside the Truths from God's Word. We've seen the proliferation of groups that have laid aside the teaching given within the Bible to bring out their own interpretations to fulfil their own purposes. And this they do to the destruction of their own souls & of others. But when believers begin studying & searching the Word for themselves, leaving the human intellect & imaginations aside, then Truth will begin to surface & release them from the errors they've received. Our beloved S. Spencer & Gigi have shared some important Truths lately around the question you raised here.
You are absolutely correct, We cannot usurp the power of God.
Keep forgiving. Teach only Love. Love never holds grievances.
Peace
GOD IS
Our holiness is not of us. It is not ours to be destroyed by sin. It is not ours to suffer from attack. Darkness can obscure it, but cannot put out its radiance, nor dim its light. It stands forever perfect and untouched. In it are all things healed, for it remains as God created it. And we can know our holiness. For Holiness Itself created us. And we can know our Source, because it is God's Will that He BE known. God will never decide against you, or He would be deciding against Himself. There is no second to God. There cannot, therefore, be anyone without his Holiness, nor anyone unworthy of His perfect Love. You are NOT guiltless in time, but in eternity. You have "sinned" in the past, but there is no past. The past is what we have taught our self; let it all go. God is always and only in the the eternal present. Thou shalt have no other gods, because there is none.
pg. 1
I've been reading some of your comments which I perceive as being towards someone who appears to think we are also gods. I hope you are not including me in this because I don't think I've said as such. Without searching back to my previous posts, I've stated or strongly suggested and purposely meant we are created in God's likeness, which agrees with scripture in Genesis. And of course you cannot deny it when the Bible says "God is Spirit." and, "God is Love." Therefore anything in God's likeness must be spirit and love, not a god nor even flesh. Thus in God's likeness we must have His attributes.
I'm intrigued why Spencer mentioned at one point some of God's loving attributes in which we are to strive in developing as ours, yet he never mentioned along with them the negative attributes you both obviously believe are also of God, i.e. fear, wrath, vengeance, punishment, condemnation, separation, rejection, etc. Surely then, should we not pursue those also? Or is it possible you realize we've mastered those characteristics already? And you would be correct. What attributes are left then for Satan? You must have faith that the "devil" has something in common with God. Very illogical and impossible.
We know, don't we, it is biblical that creatures and plants produce in their likeness? It is highly unlikely a frog produces a snake or a reptile produces a mammal. Or as in James, a fig tree makes olives? No.
One can project via the ego the fearful negative characteristics belonging to your OWN thinking mind onto a Holy God, but can never make them true. I admit though it would be convenient for the ego to believe this, for now the ego can justify its attacks on our brothers and consider it as righteousness through damnation.
see pg. 2
It is dangerous because it will cause people who believe it to believe falsely about God's' divinity and character. It is damning because those who believe it are committing the same sin as Satan did in thinking he could attain to be equal with God and even usurp Him. He will never be forgiven for this sin. There is no grace for Satan. He is forever damned. How can anyone think that God will not deal with humans who persist in the same sin any differently than He deals with Satan.
As to the article on theosis, it was very informative concerning this doctrine that has been re-affirmed over and over again through the centuries. I agree with it. Our theosis is by association with Jesus through grace. We partake of the divine nature through our union with Christ. We never change our substance as humans and become divine. But, by the sanctifying grace of God through the Holy Spirit in us, we become more and more perfected humanity, like that of Jesus' humanity, with the end goal being the attainment of the highest degree of Christlikeness possible for a human to become. We'll become perfected humanity in the resurrection. But we will not have any divinity in our nature. Divinity belongs wholly and solely to God and Him alone.
As believers we should greatly desire to be the most like Jesus as is possible, on the one hand, but on the other hand, we should be humble and realize that God is so different and so unlike us that we can only apprehend Him through Jesus. We definitely NOT desire to be gods. That comes from pride, the same pride that caused Satan to fall from his high position in heaven as a created being. He will occupy the lowest position in all of creation in the lake of fire. Those who think like him will join him there, also.
Part 2 and final.
The attributes of God. While the scriptures teach that God's people are to progressively become more Godlike in character, they do not teach that they will or can become God in the essential traits and elements which constitute deity. God is self-existent ( Jn. 5: 26), enjoys eternality ( Rom. 1: 20), has unlimited power ( Matt. 19: 26), infinite knowledge ( Acts 2: 23, 15: 18), absolute holiness, and truthfulness ( I Jn. 1: 5, Heb. 6: 18). Moreover, God has creative power ( Rom. 11: 36). To teach graduated Godhead, there must of necessity be the attendant teaching of polytheism or many gods. Again, we quote Joseph Smith:
"Hence, the doctrine of a plurality of Gods is as prominent in the Bible as any other doctrine. It is all over the face of the Bible . . . Paul says there are Gods many and Lords many . . . but to us there is but one God--that is pertaining to us; and he is in all and through all" (History of the Church, Vol. 6, page 474). "In the beginning, the head of the Gods called a council of the Gods; and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and people it." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 5).
Beloved, the scriptures teach and affirm there is only one God ( Deut. 4: 35-39). The state of Godhead, being God, consists of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit ( Rom. 1: 7, Heb. 1: 8, Acts 5: 4, 5). God declared: "that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me" ( Isa. 43: 10). Before God, there was no God. After God there shall be no God formed. Hence, man cannot so develop and graduate as to become God himself.
AGAIN!
Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, NEITHER SHALL THERE BE AFTER ME.
NETHER SHALL THERE BE AFTER ME!
GOD BLESS.
Part 1.
There are different religions extant which teach that Godhood is a graduated experience (God was once man) and that man can actually attain the level of Godhood. The number of religions which teach this is increasing as more polytheistic, Eastern religions are being introduced to America. Joseph Smith (founder of Mormonism) taught the following:
"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted Man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens...I say, if you were to see him to-day, you would see him like a man in form -- like yourselves, in all the person, image, and very form as a man....it is necessary that we should understand the character and being of God, and how he came to be so; for I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity, I will refute that idea, and will take away and do away the veil, so that you may see....and that he was once a man like us; yea, that God himself the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth the same as Jesus Christ himself did." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 3).
Verses used to teach man can become God. The apostle Peter wrote of being "partakers of the divine nature" ( 2 Pet. 1: 4). A careful study of the text reveals the apostle is teaching that we are to acquire traits of God, such as "godliness," "virtue,", etc. (vs. 5-11). Indeed, we are to be Godlike and partake of the divine nature in this sense. Jesus used the word god in an accommodative sense in John 10: 34, 35. "God," as used in John 10 and Psalms 82: 6, is applied to superior people, rulers. Jesus, however, is not teaching that these rulers had become God as God is God.
See Part 2.
Isaiah 42:8.
God bless.
Part 5 or perhaps 6 and Final.
Participation also implies difference. God does not simply have more power than man, God's power is of a wholly different kind. The same goes for all of God's attributes: presence, knowledge, love, goodness, etc. God's presence is also entirely unlike that of us human persons, as we must be in a particular place, while God is everywhere. So to say than God is present at church is not the same thing as saying a man is present at church. Similarly, even if a man were to somehow know all things, he would not be omniscient in the way God is. God knows all things as their creator - their first cause. This gives God a kind of knowledge man will never have, even if man could in theory learn all facts.
In saving mankind, God's grace does not destroy nature, but perfects it; yet, even a perfected human nature is still limited to being what it is. It will always remain finite - and the distance between finite and infinite is so great that it is not a difference so much as a complete distinction. The same will always be true of God and man. God is absolutely unique and the infinite chasm between the Creator and the creature can never be crossed. It is clear from the writings of those who make such statements that no orthodox theologian is confused on this point, and such statements need to be read with the above distinctions in mind.
"If anyone desire in this way to be Godlike, he commits no sin; provided that he desires such likeness in proper order, that is to say, that he may obtain it of God. But he would sin were he to desire to be like unto God even in the right way, as of his own, and not of God's power." (Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologi I, Q.63, A.3)
End Article.
If the notion that we all will become Gods is not sinister enough, there's those amongst us that say ALL men become Gods no matter what you have done, and there are no consequences for sin!
That is as bad as it gets!
God bless.
Part 4
Saints Augustine and Aquinas are the heaviest of the theological heavyweights in the Church. Their theological qualifications concerning deification can be applied to similar statements of orthodox theologians, apologists, doctors, and saints of the Church even when they do not indicate it in every particular statement. (Note: even when this distinction is not stated plainly, it is most often implied by terms such as "of" or "with" that can be easily glossed over if one is not looking for them.)
But what does this notion of participation mean?
The distinction between participation in grace and generation by nature is critical if one is to understand what these orthodox theologians are saying - one that, if missed or misunderstood, can lead to the kind of metaphysical confusion one finds in Mormonism or the Word Faith movement.
Here an illustration might help. St. John of Damascus speaks of being our "inflamed and deified by the participation in the divine fire." Fire makes for a good analogy for participation. Consider a frying pan being heated over a fire. When the pan is put into contact with fire, it participates in the fire's heat (i.e., it becomes hot). Now, the heat of the fire is what the fire is by nature, but the heat of the pan is that which it has by participation. When fire heats the pan, heat can be said to be part of what the pan is - but both the fire and the pan remain unchanged according to their basic natures. The pan becomes hot but it never becomes fire - hot or not, it remains a pan. Because both the fire and the pan can be said to "be" heat, there is an analogical sense in which the pan can be said to "be" fire - but this must be understood as referring literally to the pan's participation in the fire's heat - not that the pan literally becomes fire by nature. In the same way that we can say (accurately, but only analogically), that the pan can "become" fire, we can say that man can "become" God.
See Part 5
The rest that are made gods, are made by His own Grace, are not born of His Substance, that they should be the same as He, but that by favor they should come to Him, and be fellow-heirs with Christ. (Exposition on Psalm 50, 2)"
St. Thomas Aquinas is helpful here as well, because he more regularly states the qualifications that are needed. Note that in the quotes below, the highlighted statements sound quite "clear" until clarifying terms such as "sharers in" or "participation in" are added into the equation. Throughout his writings, Aquinas is adamant that the ontological distance between God and man (or any creature) is so far (namely, infinite!) that the two cannot even be compared on the same scale. God is so utterly "other" than mankind that human knowledge cannot comprehend God's essence, nor can our language adequately communicate God's essence.
Aquinas's language concerning deification, then, must be understood in accordance with this position. Thus, in his theology of deification, he says things such as this:
But the Son did not love the disciples in either of these ways. For he did not love them to the point of their being gods by nature, nor to the point that they would be united to God so as to form one person with him. But he did love them up to a similar point: he loved them to the extent that they would be gods by their participation in grace "I say, 'You are gods'" ( Ps 82:6); "He has granted to us precious and very great promises, that through these you may become partakers of the divine nature" ( 2 Pet 1:4) and he loved them to the extent that they would be united to God in affection: "He who is united to the Lord becomes one spirit with him" ( 1 Cor. 6:17); "For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son" ( Rom 8:29). Thus the Father communicated to the Son a greater good, with respect to each nature of the Son, than the Son did to his disciples; yet there is a similarity, as was said.
See 4
Part 2.
These passages suggest what theologians have called the "Formula of Exchange" a teaching directly tied to the role of Jesus' Incarnation's in our salvation. However, neither these nor any other verses mean that human nature can be changed into the divine nature of God. What they mean is that human nature can partake in the divine nature of God.
So, if quotes from Church fathers, doctors, saints, popes, etc. are found that seem to indicate otherwise, they are not being understood correctly. While it is easy to compile quotes from various writers that "clearly" state that man can become God, there is always a theological context that must be kept in mind.
The guiding principle concerning these sorts of statements is that when divinity is predicated of humanity, it is according to participation in grace, not to generation by nature. In other words, "divinity" in these cases does not refer to a change in what something is, but rather what it is like. For example, when we participate in the Eucharist, we "become the body of Christ" (see 1 Cor. 10:16-17) but we do not become the divine savior of the world!
St. Augustine makes this all-important distinction clear when he says,
He has called men gods, that are deified of His Grace, not born of His Substance. For He does justify, who is just through His own self, and not of another; and He does deify who is God through Himself, not by the partaking of another. But He that justifies does Himself deify, in that by justifying He does make sons of God. "For He has given them power to become the sons of God." John 1:12 If we have been made sons of God, we have also been made gods: but this is the effect of Grace adopting, not of nature generating. For the only Son of God, God, and one God with the Father, Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, was in the beginning the Word, and the Word with God, the Word God. The rest that are made gods, are made by His own Grace, are not born of His Substance,
See 3
Man will always be finite, even as his nature is perfected by God's grace
DOUGLAS M. BEAUMONT 9/23/2019
Part 1.
One thing that saints like Athanasius, Augustine, Anselm, and Aquinas all have in common is that they asserted that creatures can become God. This idea is also reflected in the Catechism of the Catholic Church: "The Son of God became man so that we might become God" (CCC 460). Both Saints Irenaeus in the West and Maximus in the East made similar assertions-in fact, they are who the Catechism cites.
How is this teaching not heretical, or completely insane?
The idea that man can become God has been called "Theosis," "Deification," or "Divinization," and it actually has a solid pedigree among orthodox theologians, apologists, fathers, doctors, and saints of the Church. But where did they get this idea? After all, Scripture clearly teaches that there is only one God. This is evident from writings in both testaments including historical, prophetic, poetic books as well as gospels and epistles (e.g., Dt. 6:4, 2 Kgs. 19:19; Isa. 45:5; Ps. 86:10; Jn. 5:44; 1 Cor. 8:4; etc.). Further, it is clear from Scripture that men are not God and vice versa (e.g., Num. 23:19; 1 Sam. 15:29; Hos. 11:9, etc.).
However, Scripture also teaches that man can become God-like.
"I say, 'You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you'" ( Ps. 82:6 cf. Jn. 10:34)
"The glory which thou hast given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, I in them and thou in me, that they may become perfectly one" ( Jn. 17:22-23)
"Know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God" ( Eph. 3:19)
"You may escape from the corruption that is in the world because of passion, and become partakers of the divine nature" ( 2 Pet. 1:4)
"Beloved, we are God's children now; it does not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that when he appears we shall be like him" ( 1 Jn. 3:2)
See Part 2.
Well stated.!
God bless you.
Nor have question your level or spirituality. But as it is, I am not at all fazed nor deterred by your estimation of me.
Lastly, I will say that when you continue to put together a cacophony of bits of Scripture ripped out of context mixed with your own erroneous doctrinal ideas and repeatedly post it over and over again, this in no way transforms your false ideas into truth. Nor does doing this repetition offer any sound proofs of your ideas. Your hermeneutics lack logic and correct application of the Scriptures leading to interpretations that are out of sync with Scriptures and common Christian thought.
You may not like it when I say this about your ideas. I can understand that. I enjoy conversing with you on the rare occasions you do not wax into your usual monologue of false ideas. I think that we have much more we can talk about besides this too often repeated narrative of yours. I invite you to discuss other matters of faith besides this with me and others on this site.
All of this is said in love, as I take all of what you say to me is said in love, too. We are brethren, neither of us are reprobates and we have the same Holy Spirit within us to guide us, sanctify us, and change us to become more and more like Jesus in His perfect humanity. This same Spirit can bring us to the unity of the faith. I pray for that whenever I think of you. God bless you tonight.
My hands are getting tired from typing, but not too bad. Glad to be able to use both hands somewhat now.
There is no part 6.
I was copying and pasting so fast I didn't realize it when I came to the end.
I've noticed something very sinister about some false speakers when you are amongst the worst! They don't have to fully agree with one another in their deception in order to bless one another's mission. They just have one thing in common and that is to stand in the way of truth.
GIVING THEM GOD SPEED.
The word God speed is found in only one passage in the Bible, and only in the King James Version: "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds" ( 2 John 1:10-11). Here John is warning believers against receiving false teachers or contributing to the success of anyone bearing a false gospel. To bid a false teacher "godspeed" is to express a wish for his success. Although we should love all people and desire their welfare, we cannot be faithful to the truth and at the same time wish the enemies of truth success in their endeavors. As John says, extending hospitality to a false teacher is to share in his work of falsehood.
Your doctrine that God replicates or multiplies Himself in believers also is not taught in Scripture. The promise to Abraham was that his descendants would be multiplied greatly, not that God would multiply Himself in people. Believers have the Holy Spirit indwelling them. This is such a wonderful privilege and blessing. But having God indwell a person is not the same as God being incarnated in someone. Jesus was God incarnated in humanity, He did not take over an already existing person. He is one Person with two natures, a divine nature that He always existed as, and a human nature that He took onto Himself when He was conceived in Mary's womb. Without the Person of the Son being in the flesh of Jesus, there would be no human person of Jesus.
When the Holy Spirit regenerates us, making our own human spirit come alive, He then dwells in us. But He is never us, and we are never Him. There is only one Father, one Son, and one Holy Spirit who together are the One True God, always have been and always will be thus. God will not share His glory with any other being, nor His divinity, nor His Person. He doesn't divide Himself up among believers nor does He multiply Himself in each believers, especially as you say, by impregnating a human to give birth to a baby Holy Spirit or baby Christ, a new creation. God is not a creation. He creates all things. But anything that is a creature (being) is not divine and never will be a god.
Part 5 REPROBATES
Alex, in your post you seemed to say that anyone who does not believe as you do is a reprobate (which is a morally wicked person and destined for damnation by definition) and certainly not as spiritual as those who think like you. What an awful thing to intimate about those who are brethren here. I have said that your ideas are false teachings and that when you continue to reiterate the same ideas over and over again makes you a false teacher, but I have never questioned your standing before God.
One party might teach God is Love, mixed in with fear and hate, acceptance and rejection, award and punishment, eternity in heaven and in hell, peace and conflict, some are special yet some are not, inclusion and exclusion, and on and on and on.
Another party may teach God is ONLY Love along with acceptance and not rejection. Only awards in Heaven eternal. Only peace without conflict, and that the specialness of God's creation does not stem from exclusion, but inclusion.
You get the picture: One party's teaching is obviously confusing, promoting that there Is fear in Love, causing strain to its listeners, because obviously he/she is listening to two opposing voices, thus speaking out of both sides of the mouth.
The other party, teaching only LOVE is very clear and decisive because its thought system does not oppose itself. No strain here, which will lead to peace and understanding. He or she is listening to only One Voice Who sees His creation as guiltless, not guilty.
NOW there is NO fear in Love.
The choice to judge rather than to know is the cause of the loss of peace. Judgment is the process on which perception but not knowledge rests. God is the only Cause and He is NOT the author of fear. His only judgment on His children is innocent. Love creates only in Its Own Likeness.
Peace
GOD IS
John 10:34-36 says, "Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God."
Jesus here was not affirming that the judges spoken of in this quote from Psalm 82 were actually gods, but was being ironic in stating the obvious that these judges were wicked and not gods, but yet the religious leaders would say that He was blaspheming God by saying that He was God's Son. The religious leaders were accepting of what was said in Psalm 82 as the Word of God that came to the writer of the Psalm and that the words of God are not to be set aside, but they were unwilling to accept what Jesus said about Himself, even though they could find no wickedness in Him that would disqualify Him as either speaking for God or from being the Son of God.
Those who quote Psalm 82 to support that men can become gods rarely include the part about these so-called "gods" (judges) were wicked and humans who would die as all men do. This passage in Psalms (and Jesus was alluding to the whole psalm when He quoted part of it) in no way support any doctrine that men can become gods.
To attempt to deify humans inevitably demeans God and brings Him down to the level of humans. Those who teach deification of humans fail to understand that God is so high above anything else in essence, character, power, and glory. If they did they would realize how ludicrous it is to teach that men can become divine. And if one teaches that men become divine but not to the degree of what God is, is to teach that their are different levels of deity and therefore other gods besides the true God, which goes against what God has revealed about his singularity in Scriptures.
Because the teaching of the godhood of humans usurp God's sole position as the only God in all things.
part 3 continued..
"They know not, neither will they understand; they walk in darkness; all the foundations of the earth are out of course. I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the Most High. But ye shall die like men; and fall like one of the princes. Arise, O God, judge the earth; for thou shalt inherit all nations."
Here the judges appointed over Israel were called "gods" because they represented God before the people when they judged matters. But God speaks ill of them because they were wicked and made unjust judgments. He was not affirming that they were indeed, divine beings, nor that they would or could become so. No, rather, God was judging them to be mere men who will face death as every human will.
In Acts 14:11-15 says, "And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia; The gods have come down to us in the likeness of men. And they called Barnabas, Jupiter, and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker. Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people. Which when the apostles, Barnabus and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out, And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein."
Here, the people were so sure that Paul and Barnabas must be gods because they had miraculously healed a crippled man. But the apostles were grieved that the people would treat them as gods and wished to sacrifice to them. They refused such worship and pointed the people to the living God instead.
see next post....
Part 5.
They have a ready hearing among most people, because they say only what people like to hear. Just as did ancient Israel in Jeremiah's time, people today like it that way ( Jer. 5:31). They want to hear illusions, not truth. They are enamored with pleasure and fantasy and resent being confronted with anything disquieting and condemnatory. They want encouragement but not correction, positive words but not negative truth. They will accept grace as long as it is cheap grace and does not reflect against their own sinfulness, inadequacies, and lostness.
The creed of the false prophet, if he has any at all, will be vague, indefinite, and ethereal. No demanding truth will be absolute or clear-cut, and every principle will be easy and attractive.
False prophets can also be identified by their converts and followers. They will attract to themselves people who have the same superficial, self-centered, and unscriptural orientation as they do. "Many will follow their sensuality:" Peter tells us, "and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned" ( 2 Pet. 2:2). They have many followers because they teach and promote what the majority of people want to hear and believe (cf. 2 Tim. 4:3).
Their followers will be like them-egotistical, proud, self-centered, self-indulgent, self-willed, and self-satisfied, while being religious. They will be both self-oriented and group-oriented, but never God-oriented or Scripture-oriented.
God has not ordained false prophets, but He has ordained that they exist. Paul explains to the Corinthian church, "There must also be factions among you, in order that those who are approved may have become evident among you" ( 1 Cor. 11:19). False factions will act as magnets to attract others who are false. In that indirect way they will help protect true believers by partly separating the chaff from the wheat.
See Part 6.