Hi Adam , it sounds like you haven't been following this thread properly. If you had been , you would know that I wasn't assuming anything , just replying to some one else's post .
Hi Sammi, it sounds like you're assuming a certain translation left words out of Ps.12:6-7, is that right? What is your evidence for believing this? When I look at these verses, none of the translations say what you says it should say, so where does your expectation come from and why do you assume someone is afraid?
I would like to pass along a book through moody press."Pattern for Maturity". Written by
Dr. J. DWIGHT PENTCOST
As many of you wish to have evidence of what we believe and teach, Dr.Dwight uses scripture and its verses to highlight that which of course you deserve
This book is as deep and eternally helpful to your growth as a Christian.
I cannot put it down. It is next to my Bible. Amazon for 10 dollars. I have bought 3 and have given them to my sons! God bless
Jesse I believe the Word of God Jesse. Jesus said in Mk.13:23 But take ye heed" behold, I have foretold you all things. Yes I do believe Jesus will return within the next 5 years. Mt.24:36 Jesus tells us But of that day and hour knoweth no man,. . He says that day or hour, We should know the season. Mt.16:3 Jesus said And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring, O ye hyprocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?
Verse 7 of the Psalm indicates a place otherwise known as "Kadesh barnea". Apparently there was an incident in the Book of Numbers as well which could have been a separate occasion. It is likely that Moses had to provide water for the multitude on many occasions-if not in such a spectacular fashion. In any case, Moses struck the rock twice ( Exodus 17:6); disobeying the command to only strike it once. Whether due to anger and frustration or careless disobedience the result was that it was held as sin and ultimately was a reason that he could not enter the Promised Land. ( Deut. 32:51-52).
Notice that the promises of provision in verse 10 and again in verse 16 were predicated on the requirement of verses 8-9; namely that there would be no worship of other gods. That basically boiled down the reasons for being bagged down for a whole generation in the desert; as well as rebellions later when they could have taken over the pagan nations much more quickly and completely.
This passage of scripture should give us pause if we are in a position of authority in the church today. Clearly; those teaching the Word are held to a higher standard ( James 3:1).
God is longsuffering and patient; and also alone can truly have righteous indignation. Moses was said to be meek above all who dwelled upon the earth. ( Numbers 12:3). Yet this one sin had lasting repercussions. Today; of course wwe see error in the other direction where there is no fear of the Lord as well as appreciation of Him being a jealous God. Error is not only permitted but taught in many cases. James 1:8 warns of a double minded man being unstable in all his ways; and the preceding verse shows that he should expect nothing from the Lord.
My pleasure Denise , we are all in the same boat , our Ark will bring us safely through the rough seas of life as long as we stay in it ! Keep reading keep giving God thanks for all His lovingkindness and trust in His love and mercy towards you . See you on dry land !
Hi T. Levis. If I remember correctly, the enquirer, Herbert, had asked this same question in another thread, to which I had responded. And it was actually Acts 12:2,17 that he was referring to, i.e. the difference between James, brother of John and James, the Lord's brother.
What should that missionary have done in such a situation? Forced the word 'sheep', which they had no inkling about, or change God's direct Word to something that they could understand & relate to?
To expect that God's Word as uttered by Him that is now exactly the same we have in the KJV, is really wishful thinking. The work of translation itself proves that this cannot be done, simply because a verbatim transference of certain words & ideas is unachievable (unless notes are added to help direct the reader to variations of meaning); and I'm not referring to the words or chunks of Scripture that might be missing in other versions (probably due to the many manuscripts the translators use). You can check with any translator who is engaged in this work - the difficulties are immense. The KJV translators did an extremely good job, but certainly not a perfect work - but we can be grateful for their perseverance & providing us a Bible we can love & trust.
I guess this part of the discussion (& thread) must soon come to an end dear Jimbob, simply because that "every Word that proceedeth out of the Mouth of God", and what we have & read in our Bibles today, are understood differently by us.
I understand & appreciate your strong belief & assertion (that's admirable, but in my mind, rather wishful): that since God's Word given is pure & the recorders of that Word did so accurately, then no other Bible can possibly fit that description of faithful transmission, except the King James Bible. And to restate my position, that I don't subscribe to that view, simply because we don't have such a Bible in existence that brings out God's Message without some differences (large or small). That type of transferring of a given message to other languages that have evolved over the centuries, simply cannot be done successfully. I even gave you a few examples of differences in Revelation chapter 22; differences in what the original Greek showed.
One quick example of a missionary involved in translation work amongst tribal folk in India: Isaiah 53:6 says, "All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all." A straight forward work of translating this verse into another language, even with some grammar changes & sentence reconstruction. But the difficulty arose with these 'sheep'. These tribals had never seen sheep nor ever heard about such animals with wool, as they were far removed from civilization. So, Isaiah 53:6 took a new turn: 'All we like pigs have gone astray'. Oh, now they understood that & how their herd of swine (once wild, now domesticated) could easily wander away - which no doubt gave further license to speak about the filth of sin & obstinacy to obey the herder, even the LORD.
Acts 11:2 Peter, was come up to Jerusalem._._. Acts 11:13, the man in Joppa, sent men to call for Peter, it doesn't seem to mention the name of the man, nor the other men Peter ministered to. Acts 11:17, Peter talking explained the Gentile was also given the Holy Spirit & Salvation, not just Jewish people. Galatians 3:28, Romans 1:16,
Luke 24, Peter was one of the 1st witnesses to see the empty
tomb. Luke 24:12, John 21, Jesus meets with Peter after resurrection again & tells him If you love Me feed My lambs.
Acts 2, shows Peter speak boldly in front of thousands Acts 2:14-47,
Adam, I am doing well, thank you. fully recovered from the respiratory infection, my hand is healing well from the surgery. Get my stitches out next week and then will have some exercises to do to strengthen my hand. So I am thankful. I feel so much better than I did a few weeks ago. I thank God for his love, care, and healing touch.
If you can understand what this means, you will find yourself clothed in his garment as you wait with your lamp. This demands for no substitution while we wait. It is one kind of material
This material will be his choice , this the holy ghost will provide to those who are in tHe Spirit
HIS promise to return and findIng u waiting! This lamp is his word , HIS PROMISE. Watch , I say watch. Repent and be baptized
Hello Jimbob, I think the NIV first came out in 1978, as I recall. I was in college.
It is a good thing that the publishers have revised the text to align more with the KJV and also the NSAB and RSV.
But it would definitely take a whole lot of work to do a complete comparison. I am somewhat new to the KJV as I came on this site November of 2021 specifically to read the KJV. I also was able to purchase a KJV from a Goodwill store. So now I have it to have in hand, also. So, I am glad to be here and to study from the KJV.
When you look up the word GENEA, do you not see the word race in the definition. I read Greek and I know what the word means. So I do believe what I said is correct.
If you believe it is referring to years (70 or 80) as in your post, and you are saying that this generation began in 1948, and we already know that 70 years have already gone by. 80 years will be another 5 years from now. So do you believe Christ is coming back in 5 years?
I believe it's used like that here in Genesis 6:9-10 also.
"These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth."
Also here in Genesis 36.
Now these are the generations of Esau, who is Edom.
Esau took his wives of the daughters of Canaan; Adah the daughter of Elon the Hittite, and Aholibamah the daughter of Anah the daughter of Zibeon the Hivite;
AND THIS GROUP IF PEOPLE GOES ON UNTIL YOU GET TO
Genesis 36:9 and it gives a list of those of Esau in mount Seir.
"And these are the generations of Esau the father of the Edomites in mount Seir:"
GiGi This Niv has a date June, 1978, (Revised August 1983) Here are the verses. Ps.12:6-7 (6. And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. (7. O LORD, you will keep us safe and protect us from such people forever. (The subject in verse 6 is the Words of the LORD) I understand completely GiGi, it was good communicating with you.
This is such a beautiful reply of encouragement and comfort - thank you so much for taking the time to reach out. I receive this as a blessig and will continue to read and take comfort in God's Word. Thank you kindly - be well!
I don't think its forbidden to make just "anything" from wood. If you have a certain scripture in mind, go ahead and post that and we'll take a look at what it says, whether it was a specific law for Israelites or ritual law or what. God blessed us with wood to use for all kinds of things. The Bible has many things made of wood, like the cross Jesus carried, both arks Exodus 25:10, and Jesus was a carpenter, so he made all kinds of things of wood as his job. People use wood paper to write on, to read books, like the Bible, and use it for toilet paper, paper towels and all kinds of products that would hard to avoid. Of course if the Bible said to avoid wood we would need to do that, but I'm not aware of anywhere in the Bible saying that. If it actually said that, a lot of people would not be able to live in an apartment or house or gather in a church, because most are made from wood.
I don't believe crosses are wrong. I believe idols and idol worship are wrong. If someone is worshipping a cross that is wrong. I haven't heard of anyone doing that. If the cross represents what Jesus did for us I think that's a good thing to worship Jesus in the presence of one. I've seen videos of catholics bowing to a statue of mary as a god. That is wrong. What is the object of worship should be the question.
Do you have a verse that says decorations are wrong- whether you have a hood ornament on a car or a house with a door knob with a design or a Bible cover? Is it possible you are merging a few verses like the one about women wearing excessive adornments 1 Peter 3:3?
Hi Jimbob, my 1995 NIV says the same as the KJV except for "you" instead of "Thou". So, I do not know the published date of teh NIV you are looking at. But, we can continue to look at discrepancies and I am glad to respond, but there may be a point where this becomes fruitless, and I will bow out. I hope you understand.
Understanding the love of God toward man will require a oness with the Father. We believe we have access through His Son Jesus into the things to those who believe. How we reach others who believe otherwise will take God's language
Thank you Fred, and God bless you. there are so many ideas out there and we should test them. It is wise not to test them alone but within the community of believers according to the word of God.
Dr. J. DWIGHT PENTCOST
As many of you wish to have evidence of what we believe and teach, Dr.Dwight uses scripture and its verses to highlight that which of course you deserve
This book is as deep and eternally helpful to your growth as a Christian.
I cannot put it down. It is next to my Bible. Amazon for 10 dollars. I have bought 3 and have given them to my sons! God bless
Verse 7 of the Psalm indicates a place otherwise known as "Kadesh barnea". Apparently there was an incident in the Book of Numbers as well which could have been a separate occasion. It is likely that Moses had to provide water for the multitude on many occasions-if not in such a spectacular fashion. In any case, Moses struck the rock twice ( Exodus 17:6); disobeying the command to only strike it once. Whether due to anger and frustration or careless disobedience the result was that it was held as sin and ultimately was a reason that he could not enter the Promised Land. ( Deut. 32:51-52).
Notice that the promises of provision in verse 10 and again in verse 16 were predicated on the requirement of verses 8-9; namely that there would be no worship of other gods. That basically boiled down the reasons for being bagged down for a whole generation in the desert; as well as rebellions later when they could have taken over the pagan nations much more quickly and completely.
This passage of scripture should give us pause if we are in a position of authority in the church today. Clearly; those teaching the Word are held to a higher standard ( James 3:1).
God is longsuffering and patient; and also alone can truly have righteous indignation. Moses was said to be meek above all who dwelled upon the earth. ( Numbers 12:3). Yet this one sin had lasting repercussions. Today; of course wwe see error in the other direction where there is no fear of the Lord as well as appreciation of Him being a jealous God. Error is not only permitted but taught in many cases. James 1:8 warns of a double minded man being unstable in all his ways; and the preceding verse shows that he should expect nothing from the Lord.
What should that missionary have done in such a situation? Forced the word 'sheep', which they had no inkling about, or change God's direct Word to something that they could understand & relate to?
To expect that God's Word as uttered by Him that is now exactly the same we have in the KJV, is really wishful thinking. The work of translation itself proves that this cannot be done, simply because a verbatim transference of certain words & ideas is unachievable (unless notes are added to help direct the reader to variations of meaning); and I'm not referring to the words or chunks of Scripture that might be missing in other versions (probably due to the many manuscripts the translators use). You can check with any translator who is engaged in this work - the difficulties are immense. The KJV translators did an extremely good job, but certainly not a perfect work - but we can be grateful for their perseverance & providing us a Bible we can love & trust.
I guess this part of the discussion (& thread) must soon come to an end dear Jimbob, simply because that "every Word that proceedeth out of the Mouth of God", and what we have & read in our Bibles today, are understood differently by us.
I understand & appreciate your strong belief & assertion (that's admirable, but in my mind, rather wishful): that since God's Word given is pure & the recorders of that Word did so accurately, then no other Bible can possibly fit that description of faithful transmission, except the King James Bible. And to restate my position, that I don't subscribe to that view, simply because we don't have such a Bible in existence that brings out God's Message without some differences (large or small). That type of transferring of a given message to other languages that have evolved over the centuries, simply cannot be done successfully. I even gave you a few examples of differences in Revelation chapter 22; differences in what the original Greek showed.
One quick example of a missionary involved in translation work amongst tribal folk in India: Isaiah 53:6 says, "All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all." A straight forward work of translating this verse into another language, even with some grammar changes & sentence reconstruction. But the difficulty arose with these 'sheep'. These tribals had never seen sheep nor ever heard about such animals with wool, as they were far removed from civilization. So, Isaiah 53:6 took a new turn: 'All we like pigs have gone astray'. Oh, now they understood that & how their herd of swine (once wild, now domesticated) could easily wander away - which no doubt gave further license to speak about the filth of sin & obstinacy to obey the herder, even the LORD.
Acts 11:2 Peter, was come up to Jerusalem._._. Acts 11:13, the man in Joppa, sent men to call for Peter, it doesn't seem to mention the name of the man, nor the other men Peter ministered to. Acts 11:17, Peter talking explained the Gentile was also given the Holy Spirit & Salvation, not just Jewish people. Galatians 3:28, Romans 1:16,
Luke 24, Peter was one of the 1st witnesses to see the empty
tomb. Luke 24:12, John 21, Jesus meets with Peter after resurrection again & tells him If you love Me feed My lambs.
Acts 2, shows Peter speak boldly in front of thousands Acts 2:14-47,
Hopefully these are helpful
Matthew 5:17; Hebrews 10:9
The church is his bride
If you can understand what this means, you will find yourself clothed in his garment as you wait with your lamp. This demands for no substitution while we wait. It is one kind of material
This material will be his choice , this the holy ghost will provide to those who are in tHe Spirit
HIS promise to return and findIng u waiting! This lamp is his word , HIS PROMISE. Watch , I say watch. Repent and be baptized
It is a good thing that the publishers have revised the text to align more with the KJV and also the NSAB and RSV.
But it would definitely take a whole lot of work to do a complete comparison. I am somewhat new to the KJV as I came on this site November of 2021 specifically to read the KJV. I also was able to purchase a KJV from a Goodwill store. So now I have it to have in hand, also. So, I am glad to be here and to study from the KJV.
God always leads us in the best way.
When you look up the word GENEA, do you not see the word race in the definition. I read Greek and I know what the word means. So I do believe what I said is correct.
If you believe it is referring to years (70 or 80) as in your post, and you are saying that this generation began in 1948, and we already know that 70 years have already gone by. 80 years will be another 5 years from now. So do you believe Christ is coming back in 5 years?
That's the way I have it in that verse also.
I believe it's used like that here in Genesis 6:9-10 also.
"These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth."
Also here in Genesis 36.
Now these are the generations of Esau, who is Edom.
Esau took his wives of the daughters of Canaan; Adah the daughter of Elon the Hittite, and Aholibamah the daughter of Anah the daughter of Zibeon the Hivite;
AND THIS GROUP IF PEOPLE GOES ON UNTIL YOU GET TO
Genesis 36:9 and it gives a list of those of Esau in mount Seir.
"And these are the generations of Esau the father of the Edomites in mount Seir:"
IT'S USED THAT WAY IN
GENESIS 37:1-2 ON JACOB'S GENEALOGY.
I don't think its forbidden to make just "anything" from wood. If you have a certain scripture in mind, go ahead and post that and we'll take a look at what it says, whether it was a specific law for Israelites or ritual law or what. God blessed us with wood to use for all kinds of things. The Bible has many things made of wood, like the cross Jesus carried, both arks Exodus 25:10, and Jesus was a carpenter, so he made all kinds of things of wood as his job. People use wood paper to write on, to read books, like the Bible, and use it for toilet paper, paper towels and all kinds of products that would hard to avoid. Of course if the Bible said to avoid wood we would need to do that, but I'm not aware of anywhere in the Bible saying that. If it actually said that, a lot of people would not be able to live in an apartment or house or gather in a church, because most are made from wood.
I don't believe crosses are wrong. I believe idols and idol worship are wrong. If someone is worshipping a cross that is wrong. I haven't heard of anyone doing that. If the cross represents what Jesus did for us I think that's a good thing to worship Jesus in the presence of one. I've seen videos of catholics bowing to a statue of mary as a god. That is wrong. What is the object of worship should be the question.
Do you have a verse that says decorations are wrong- whether you have a hood ornament on a car or a house with a door knob with a design or a Bible cover? Is it possible you are merging a few verses like the one about women wearing excessive adornments 1 Peter 3:3?
Understanding the love of God toward man will require a oness with the Father. We believe we have access through His Son Jesus into the things to those who believe. How we reach others who believe otherwise will take God's language