Dear all, you are dearly loved by the Lord Jesus Christ and have fellowship with Him by the Holy Spirit. and in Him we are brothers and sisters and family with God Himself. Never forget that on your walk here on Earth. There will come a day Revelation 20:11 which we would like to have a discussion about. That day will be a weird day. Here is plain text. But now brothers and sisters are here on Earth and we are witnesses to everyone we meet, right? Even though we long for Home, we know that the time will come when we will be allowed home. Thanks be to God and have all the praise for our work.
I woke up this morning singing to the Lord in my mouth and heart. It must have been a beautiful dream of peace and of the Lord Himself! May worship be with me all day, I pray, Amen. Then I opened the Bible in Hebrews 6:1 reading the beautiful words probably Paul has written, influenced, inspired by the Lord Himself. And as so many Christians struggle with. In the New Testament they are put together as a common thread. So we WILL understand them eventually.
The words you read here are to be read in the Spirit of revelation and wisdom so that you find out for yourselves what the rest of the words and sets in the chapter are about, is the truth we are searching for. The truth we can testify to for hungry people outside the scheme. And we are also starving for God. He will give us both food and water that live and that will go into the eternal dwellings! Go out in peace everyone and know that you are the bearer of a light, a truth, a love like no other on this planet. And it/are will last forever. Amen
Stay close to Him and His word. For remember we shall search and seek, and we shall find. And we must seek more to not be deprived of what we have. When we have received much from the Lord, He will give us more. All in His Glory, Hallelujah Amen. Love u all in Christ Jesus.
This chapter first speaks about Aaron lighting the lamps for the 7 branched candlestick, This was specifically Aaron's duty.
Next, the Levites are consecrated. They bath and are anointed by Moses, The people lay their hands upon their heads.
This account is described more fully in Leviticus.
As believers in Christ, the Holy Spirit illuminates our souls in for us to understand the Scriptures. We are to continually yield to Him and not resist or quench His work in us.
We are to give ourselves wholly to serving God in whatever respect He appoints for us. In order to fulfill our service to God, we need to constantly surrender our will to His as Jesus did, and do so with faith.
It is our responsibility to do all things to glorify God and avoid all things that are contrary to us giving him honor, glory, and praise.
There is one main fulfillment I have received from God's Word, and that is our Farther is not the God of confusion, but of peace!
I would like to say, thank you Yahavah (Ahavah) for giving us the translators that translated your Word in English as a novel with the 'Four Ws' for each chapter so it could be easily understood. I find it to be so easy to understand, when 'rightly divided' that it can be read and taught with peace. Reading and teaching 'verse by verse' and 'chapter by chapter.'
"And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him." 1 John 2:28-29
"Abide" is an action. Some translations say "continue" or "remain" or "keep" in Him. This makes it seem like its a choice and freewill to follow Jesus. That it won't be forced upon you against your will, or that it won't be done for you.
"He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." 1 John 2:4 KJV
Some say those who already know and follow Jesus have no choice but to be perfect and sinless and don't need to do anything, can even love the world, ( 1 John 2:15) but is that true?
"If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:" 1 John 1:6 KJV
Some people assume they are Christians and Christ followers- saved and done and don't have to do anything, because book of life, and all that stuff, right? They think they can stop following Christ and have fun in the world and still get invited to heaven. But the above verse makes it conditional, if you do this, then... But another if... 1 John 1:9.
2 Peter 3:17 - How could someone who already assumes he's saved fall from his secure position like this verse says?
2 Peter 3:14 - It says to make an effort to be spotless and blameless, but some people are claiming that effort is bad, and not making effort is good. So one side is true and one side is false. Man vs. God's word. Who will I choose to believe?
God is so merciful that if He is to deal with us according to our sins none of us would stand, we will all be in Hell remember the Generation that was in the times Of Noah God dealt with them and all perished excerpt those 8 people in the ark Noah a preacher of righteousness and his family.
The mercy of God is in display each day of our lives therefore lets us Give thanks to the Lord for His mercy endures forever Amen.
As its written in Psalms 103:8:10
8The LORD is merciful and gracious,
Slow to anger, and plenteous in mercy.
9He will not always chide:
Neither will he keep his anger for ever.
10He hath not dealt with us after our sins;
Nor rewarded us according to our iniquities.
And IF God was to mark our sins, where would you be?
David did not pray and asked the Lord if it was okey to number the Israelite's and when he was warned that this might bring Judgement but paid no attention neither did, He put God first before embarking on such a task. David knew very well who God was and he should have sort after Gods counsel first before taking any steps.
This event is even evident in our daily Lives a christians we tend to take the initiatives without seeking Gods will though prayer.
David was at fault and as its written in Proebers 8:8 All the words of my mouth are with righteousness.
Nothing crooked or perverse is in them.
Please Pray for understanding and God is faithful He will Give your Freely Amen.
Hi Grace. Why don't you read Ecclesiastes chapter 12: read the whole chapter with understanding and you will see where the body goes and where the spirit and soul go. The spirit is not separated from "self" for the spirit is the intellect of the soul. So the soul with the spirit goes back to our Father who created it and this old flesh body goes back to dust from whence it came.
When the "silver cord breaks, or the "old pot breaks, our head". No matter if that fetus is one minute old, or this old flesh body is one hundred years old. Ecclesiastes is written to the man that walks under the sun. Have a blessed day.
Hello Grace . The only thing I know of in the Bible , that will answer your question is in the life of David . You would need to read the account of his adultery with Bathsheba in 2nd Samuel chapters 11 and 12 , in particular ch 12 verses 15-23 .
Is ( Mt. 24:29-31) the rapture of the church or is it the same event as ( Rev. 19:11-16)?
It is the rapture of the church. Read ( 1 Thess. 4:16-17) then see the comparison below of ( Mt. 24:29-31) and ( Rev. 19:11-16)
3 things that clearly show ( Mt. 24:29-31) is the same event as ( 1Thess. 4:17-18) which is the rapture of the church.
1) ( Mt. 24:30) Tells us "the Son of man coming ((in the clouds))" ( 1 Thess. 4:17) "caught up together with them ((in the clouds)) to meet the Lord in the air".
2) ( Mt. 24:31) a great sound of ((a trumpet)). ( 1Thess. 4:16) and with ((the trump)) of God. (That don't sound like a secret does it)?
3) ( Mt. 24:31) and they shall ((gather together)) his elect. ( 1Thess. 4:17) we which are alive and remain shall be ((caught up together)) with them in the clouds.
When we look at ( Rev. 19:11-16) Jesus comes (from heaven) in ( Rev. 19:11) and (to the earth) in ( Rev. 19:15) riding a white horse to rule the nations with a rod of iron.
1) There is no mention of any clouds or of Him coming in the clouds.
2) There is no sound of a trumpet or trump of God.
3) There is no gathering together but armies do come back with Him.
( Mt. 24:29-31) Is the rapture of the church which is the same event as ( 1 Thess. 4:15-17) Truth matters! May God Bless all who Seek His Truth.
Grace Stack I don't have an answer to where it would be found in the Bible but I think you are right. God is a judge of righteous judgment, if a child doesn't know right from wrong I believe as you do they will go to heaven. Also those who are not mentally capable of understanding at any age would not be judged for sins they would not or could not understand. I'm sorry I couldn't give you an answer where this could be found in Scripture but I would think someone on here will be able to give you that answer. Thank you for your comment. God Bless you.
I was taught when growing up that children before they reach the age of accountability would go to heaven.That age was when they were ably to understand right from wrong and that the ones that were not mentally capable of understanding would go to heaven at any age.I saw a question on Facebook and it got me to thinking and I couldn't find an answer.
We can all pray for a change of heart for all people for a great harvest of new believers in this present age. And we can pray that many of these believers will be Israelites.
That sounds good. I have been reading on these promises and covenants also. But I will let you do the posting and I will l"listen in". Thank you for this in advance.
If God permits I will try to go to the OT and highlight some of the covenants and prophecies and see when and if they were "fully" fulfilled as presented.
It's a way to investigate and shape our hermeneutics.
There will be several views on this and it should atleast help one in examining their approach to scripture.
So it definitely won't be a debate where we challenge one views.
It won't be directed to individuals or focused on a certain eschatology viewpoint.
Instead we will let the scripture send us in the direction it intended.
Thanks for your reply Chris . I used to believe exactly the same as you , just in the last few years of reading I'm starting to think about Jesus parables and straight out words and I'm leaning in a different direction now . I'm very cautious and careful about commiting myself , I guess you could say I'm a slow learner :) . We shall understand everything one day , may that day be soon . Thanks again .
Hi Kay. If I may just share my thoughts on what you've written, pre-empting Richard's comment: you've quoted Revelation 3:15,16, "I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth." I understand Jesus' Words to the Laodicean Church that the works (or, fruit) they bore from their 'Christian experience' was "neither cold nor hot", or, 'their works & life lived did not resemble the cold (the unbeliever) or the hot (the one in Christ & Christ in them). Rather, Jesus saw them as lukewarm (fence-sitters, middle-of-the-road, nominal practising Christians). Jesus would rather see them for who they are: be it cold (unbelievers) or hot (believers), as there was no place in His Kingdom for the lukewarm (considered to be non-Christians, imposters in the Church). Not only in Laodicea, but greatly in Christendom today, lukewarmness is the order of the day - and Jesus would have none of it.
And Matthew 24:13, "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." Our brother Jesse who is regularly seen on these pages, has shown us from the original Greek language, that our reading of this verse should be: "The one, however, having endured to the end, he will be saved" (direct rendering from the Greek). So, this verse doesn't speak of a Christian enduring to the end & then gaining salvation - there are many other verses that suggest otherwise speaking of the believer's security in Christ now; but that if we truly believe & have God's Holy Spirit in us, we WILL endure to the end - no exceptions, because that is the very Nature & Purpose of the Holy Spirit in us "to keep us from falling (away) & to present us faultless before the presence of His Glory..." ( Jude 1:24).
Lukewarm 'Christians' & those who easily & regularly do despite to the Spirit of Grace in their manner of living, desperately need to be saved & secured in the Love of Christ.
Hello Shelley. Indeed, this is a very sad disturbing account that would ordinarily raise questions as to David's culpability by his actions, when in fact God had moved David to conduct this census (2 Samuel chapter 24). I used to struggle with this matter as to how is it possible that God could cause someone to commit an evil act (or, be His instrument to execute His judgement in such a manner), and then have him (David) realize his sin for doing so & ultimately that he was compelled to prepare burnt & peace offerings to atone for his sin.
But I merged this passage with 1 Chronicles 21:1, "And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel", to correctly understand that God's Plan to satisfy His Anger against Israel was by lifting His Protection from them, thus giving Satan licence to act. So if I may paraphrase, I would then read 2 Samuel 24:1 (in conjunction with 1 Chronicles 21:1), in this way: 'And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and He allowed Satan to stand against God's people by moving, or inciting, David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.'
Now Israel was in a horrible position; not only was their great enemy Satan ever ready to pounce on them to lead them away from their God, but God had for this particular time removed His covering from them, so that Satan would do to Israel what God wanted as His punishment against them. I see a similar act in the Book of Job, when God permitted Satan to test Job's integrity & fear of God, so that God's view of Job would remain unchanged. In the 2 Samuel incident, God used Satan to punish His people for their wickedness; in Job, God allowed Satan to test His faithful one to prove his uprightness.
So, I see that David was still responsible for his decision & action and so had to acknowledge it & repent of it. The fact that David's heart was smitten after his sin, shows that he realized his foolishness for not trusting God in spite of Joab's warning.
Who are the dead in Christ who shall rise first in ( 1 Thess. 4:16)? When we die the soul and spirit are separated, the soul goes to the grave with the body and the spirit goes to the Lord to be judged. We are told in ( Heb. 4:12) "piercing even to the (dividing) sunder of soul and spirit" The word (dividing) is #3311; it means a separation or distribution, to part, to disunite, be difference between, divide. (The soul and spirit are separated, parted, disunited at death) First we look at the soul. ( Ps. 44:25) ( Ps. 49:15) ( Ps. 89:48) Then we have in ( Acts. 2:26-27) The word (hell) is #86; it means unseen, i.e. "Hades" or the place (state) of departed souls, grave, hell. Its also from #1492; (I only saw this tonight and it is an eye opener, literally). #1492; means to know, be aware, behold, consider, (have) know (-ledge) look (on) perceive, see, understand. This is saying the soul will see and have knowledge, and understand and be aware of its surroundings, is it not? Now we look at the spirit. Jesus Christ said in ( Luke. 23:46) "into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost". ( Acts. 7:58-60) v59 Stephen said "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit" (Eccl. 12:7) Tells us "and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it" So to be (present with the Lord) in ( 2 Cor. 5:8) is speaking of the spirit, not the soul. Two verses after this we see the spirit goes to the Lord to be judged in ( 2 Cor. 5:10) The dead rise first in ( 1 Thess. 4:16)? "The Lord shall descend from heaven with a shout" and they will here His voice in ( John. 5:28-29) and shall come forth, the dead souls in Christ shall rise first to meet their spirit in the air which will be returning with Jesus Christ in ( 1 Thess. 4:13-17) v14 "even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him" the resurrection of the just in ( Luke. 14:14) The word (resurrection) is #386 it means rise from the dead. Those who believed in Jesus and are raised up the last day in ( Jn. 6:39-40,44).
Christ said he will spit out Luke warm followers, which means that you can lose salvation. One had to be saved or "in Christ" in order to be expelled out of Christ. The bible says that we must endure to the end which implies that if we do not endure we may not make it into the kingdom. In short, I do not think the Bible implies the once saved always saved doctrine which your writings seem to suggest is your conclusion.
Basic points: Scripture makes it clear that we as believers are to "suffer for His name's sake" ( Philippians 1:29). We are given a new heart with our stony heart removed ( Ezekiel 36:26). We are to love the brethren ( 1 John 3:14) if we have "passed from death to life." We also love our enemies ( Matt. 5:44) and we should read the entire passage to meditate on how we pray for them who despitefully use you"; etc. We are aliens ( 1 Peter 2:11-12; see also 1 Chron. 29:15) and not of this world. We are truly born again and seated in heavenly places ( Eph. 2:6) and our treasure is now in heaven as well ( Matt. 6:20-21). We understand that we were saved as hopeless sinners and therefore serve as "unworthy servants" ( Luke 17:7-10). We still have peace that passes understanding (Phillipians 4:7); and is not of this world ( John 14:27).
With all this we have an understanding of how we have been called and chosen and predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son ( Romans 8:29).
We learn to love His ways and His Word; trusting God for the difficult and hard scriptures and sayings as well. A true believer is being transformed by the renewing of His mind ( Romans 12:2) and is concerned about the needs of others; particularly within the house of God. Hebrews 13 as well as Paul's example ( 2 Cor. 11:28) despite the persecutions he endured. We desire to grow and also must believe He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him ( Heb. 11:6). That means we also desire to win the prize of the high calling (Phillipians 3:14). Therefore those in Christ should be careful not to lose their reward ( Rev. 3:11).
All this being said; there are examples of those who think they are saved but are not; as well as those who make it into heaven but suffer loss. Evidence of fruit can be seen in time; and each of us are responsible to test ourselves to see if we are in the faith ( 2 Cor. 13:5). Seek and ye shall find ( Matt 7:7-8
Giannis, thank you for the addition Scriptural information and understanding of this topic.
And, yes, the original discussion was about Judas, and so, it may be time to close this thread and begin a new one on baptism, if you wish. For me, I think it is time for me to exit this thread. God's blessings to you and Jesse, always.
Did Israel faithlessness void God's promises to Israel?
Romans 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
Paul is asking if there is someone without faith, shall their lack of faith cancel out the faithfulness of God?
Paul answers that in vs 4 God forbid:
Israel's failures doesn't void out the promises of God.
God's promise to send Israel the redeemer was not voided by their wilful disobedience and rejection.
All his promises for the future of the nation will be fulfilled to his glory in spite of their unbelief. This is the unconditional covenant God made with Abraham.
Here's a few more verses causes people to believe the Church is the new Israel.
Galatians 3:28-29.
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Romans 2:28-29
"For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Now these verses is not talking about an ethnic group.
Paul gives us the subject of the matter in Romans 3:1.
"What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?"
Now here is where Paul was actually contrasting the Jews and the law, and the promise by faith of Jesus Christ.
Colossians 2:11-12.
This contrast the belief that righteousness came by the outwardly circumcised jew and the circumcision of the heart, in the spirit,
In other words Abraham was given the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith before he was circumcised.
Romans 4:11-13.
So Jew and Israel is not always used synonymous in the scripture.
I woke up this morning singing to the Lord in my mouth and heart. It must have been a beautiful dream of peace and of the Lord Himself! May worship be with me all day, I pray, Amen. Then I opened the Bible in Hebrews 6:1 reading the beautiful words probably Paul has written, influenced, inspired by the Lord Himself. And as so many Christians struggle with. In the New Testament they are put together as a common thread. So we WILL understand them eventually.
The words you read here are to be read in the Spirit of revelation and wisdom so that you find out for yourselves what the rest of the words and sets in the chapter are about, is the truth we are searching for. The truth we can testify to for hungry people outside the scheme. And we are also starving for God. He will give us both food and water that live and that will go into the eternal dwellings! Go out in peace everyone and know that you are the bearer of a light, a truth, a love like no other on this planet. And it/are will last forever. Amen
Stay close to Him and His word. For remember we shall search and seek, and we shall find. And we must seek more to not be deprived of what we have. When we have received much from the Lord, He will give us more. All in His Glory, Hallelujah Amen. Love u all in Christ Jesus.
This chapter first speaks about Aaron lighting the lamps for the 7 branched candlestick, This was specifically Aaron's duty.
Next, the Levites are consecrated. They bath and are anointed by Moses, The people lay their hands upon their heads.
This account is described more fully in Leviticus.
As believers in Christ, the Holy Spirit illuminates our souls in for us to understand the Scriptures. We are to continually yield to Him and not resist or quench His work in us.
We are to give ourselves wholly to serving God in whatever respect He appoints for us. In order to fulfill our service to God, we need to constantly surrender our will to His as Jesus did, and do so with faith.
It is our responsibility to do all things to glorify God and avoid all things that are contrary to us giving him honor, glory, and praise.
I would like to say, thank you Yahavah (Ahavah) for giving us the translators that translated your Word in English as a novel with the 'Four Ws' for each chapter so it could be easily understood. I find it to be so easy to understand, when 'rightly divided' that it can be read and taught with peace. Reading and teaching 'verse by verse' and 'chapter by chapter.'
"And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him." 1 John 2:28-29
"Abide" is an action. Some translations say "continue" or "remain" or "keep" in Him. This makes it seem like its a choice and freewill to follow Jesus. That it won't be forced upon you against your will, or that it won't be done for you.
"He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." 1 John 2:4 KJV
Some say those who already know and follow Jesus have no choice but to be perfect and sinless and don't need to do anything, can even love the world, ( 1 John 2:15) but is that true?
"If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:" 1 John 1:6 KJV
Some people assume they are Christians and Christ followers- saved and done and don't have to do anything, because book of life, and all that stuff, right? They think they can stop following Christ and have fun in the world and still get invited to heaven. But the above verse makes it conditional, if you do this, then... But another if... 1 John 1:9.
2 Peter 3:17 - How could someone who already assumes he's saved fall from his secure position like this verse says?
2 Peter 3:14 - It says to make an effort to be spotless and blameless, but some people are claiming that effort is bad, and not making effort is good. So one side is true and one side is false. Man vs. God's word. Who will I choose to believe?
The mercy of God is in display each day of our lives therefore lets us Give thanks to the Lord for His mercy endures forever Amen.
As its written in Psalms 103:8:10
8The LORD is merciful and gracious,
Slow to anger, and plenteous in mercy.
9He will not always chide:
Neither will he keep his anger for ever.
10He hath not dealt with us after our sins;
Nor rewarded us according to our iniquities.
And IF God was to mark our sins, where would you be?
David did not pray and asked the Lord if it was okey to number the Israelite's and when he was warned that this might bring Judgement but paid no attention neither did, He put God first before embarking on such a task. David knew very well who God was and he should have sort after Gods counsel first before taking any steps.
This event is even evident in our daily Lives a christians we tend to take the initiatives without seeking Gods will though prayer.
David was at fault and as its written in Proebers 8:8 All the words of my mouth are with righteousness.
Nothing crooked or perverse is in them.
Please Pray for understanding and God is faithful He will Give your Freely Amen.
When the "silver cord breaks, or the "old pot breaks, our head". No matter if that fetus is one minute old, or this old flesh body is one hundred years old. Ecclesiastes is written to the man that walks under the sun. Have a blessed day.
It is the rapture of the church. Read ( 1 Thess. 4:16-17) then see the comparison below of ( Mt. 24:29-31) and ( Rev. 19:11-16)
3 things that clearly show ( Mt. 24:29-31) is the same event as ( 1Thess. 4:17-18) which is the rapture of the church.
1) ( Mt. 24:30) Tells us "the Son of man coming ((in the clouds))" ( 1 Thess. 4:17) "caught up together with them ((in the clouds)) to meet the Lord in the air".
2) ( Mt. 24:31) a great sound of ((a trumpet)). ( 1Thess. 4:16) and with ((the trump)) of God. (That don't sound like a secret does it)?
3) ( Mt. 24:31) and they shall ((gather together)) his elect. ( 1Thess. 4:17) we which are alive and remain shall be ((caught up together)) with them in the clouds.
When we look at ( Rev. 19:11-16) Jesus comes (from heaven) in ( Rev. 19:11) and (to the earth) in ( Rev. 19:15) riding a white horse to rule the nations with a rod of iron.
1) There is no mention of any clouds or of Him coming in the clouds.
2) There is no sound of a trumpet or trump of God.
3) There is no gathering together but armies do come back with Him.
( Mt. 24:29-31) Is the rapture of the church which is the same event as ( 1 Thess. 4:15-17) Truth matters! May God Bless all who Seek His Truth.
1 Corintihans 13 chapter. Stay close to Jesus in His word, i love u in Christ.
Thanks or your thoughts here.
We can all pray for a change of heart for all people for a great harvest of new believers in this present age. And we can pray that many of these believers will be Israelites.
That sounds good. I have been reading on these promises and covenants also. But I will let you do the posting and I will l"listen in". Thank you for this in advance.
genesis
God bless you and all you do.
If God permits I will try to go to the OT and highlight some of the covenants and prophecies and see when and if they were "fully" fulfilled as presented.
It's a way to investigate and shape our hermeneutics.
There will be several views on this and it should atleast help one in examining their approach to scripture.
So it definitely won't be a debate where we challenge one views.
It won't be directed to individuals or focused on a certain eschatology viewpoint.
Instead we will let the scripture send us in the direction it intended.
Good luck! Right?
God bless.
Zechariah 12:9,10 definitely wasn't fulfilled ar the cross,
In 1 Corinthians 15:8 Paul says he was born out of due time and when he wrote to the Romans he stated they were still blinded.
2 Corinthians 3:13-16 he mentions this and the veil upon their heart.
When their heart shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
The veil is still on their heart today "Until" the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
God bless.
And Matthew 24:13, "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." Our brother Jesse who is regularly seen on these pages, has shown us from the original Greek language, that our reading of this verse should be: "The one, however, having endured to the end, he will be saved" (direct rendering from the Greek). So, this verse doesn't speak of a Christian enduring to the end & then gaining salvation - there are many other verses that suggest otherwise speaking of the believer's security in Christ now; but that if we truly believe & have God's Holy Spirit in us, we WILL endure to the end - no exceptions, because that is the very Nature & Purpose of the Holy Spirit in us "to keep us from falling (away) & to present us faultless before the presence of His Glory..." ( Jude 1:24).
Lukewarm 'Christians' & those who easily & regularly do despite to the Spirit of Grace in their manner of living, desperately need to be saved & secured in the Love of Christ.
But I merged this passage with 1 Chronicles 21:1, "And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel", to correctly understand that God's Plan to satisfy His Anger against Israel was by lifting His Protection from them, thus giving Satan licence to act. So if I may paraphrase, I would then read 2 Samuel 24:1 (in conjunction with 1 Chronicles 21:1), in this way: 'And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and He allowed Satan to stand against God's people by moving, or inciting, David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.'
Now Israel was in a horrible position; not only was their great enemy Satan ever ready to pounce on them to lead them away from their God, but God had for this particular time removed His covering from them, so that Satan would do to Israel what God wanted as His punishment against them. I see a similar act in the Book of Job, when God permitted Satan to test Job's integrity & fear of God, so that God's view of Job would remain unchanged. In the 2 Samuel incident, God used Satan to punish His people for their wickedness; in Job, God allowed Satan to test His faithful one to prove his uprightness.
So, I see that David was still responsible for his decision & action and so had to acknowledge it & repent of it. The fact that David's heart was smitten after his sin, shows that he realized his foolishness for not trusting God in spite of Joab's warning.
Have a blessed nights rest.
Basic points: Scripture makes it clear that we as believers are to "suffer for His name's sake" ( Philippians 1:29). We are given a new heart with our stony heart removed ( Ezekiel 36:26). We are to love the brethren ( 1 John 3:14) if we have "passed from death to life." We also love our enemies ( Matt. 5:44) and we should read the entire passage to meditate on how we pray for them who despitefully use you"; etc. We are aliens ( 1 Peter 2:11-12; see also 1 Chron. 29:15) and not of this world. We are truly born again and seated in heavenly places ( Eph. 2:6) and our treasure is now in heaven as well ( Matt. 6:20-21). We understand that we were saved as hopeless sinners and therefore serve as "unworthy servants" ( Luke 17:7-10). We still have peace that passes understanding (Phillipians 4:7); and is not of this world ( John 14:27).
With all this we have an understanding of how we have been called and chosen and predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son ( Romans 8:29).
We learn to love His ways and His Word; trusting God for the difficult and hard scriptures and sayings as well. A true believer is being transformed by the renewing of His mind ( Romans 12:2) and is concerned about the needs of others; particularly within the house of God. Hebrews 13 as well as Paul's example ( 2 Cor. 11:28) despite the persecutions he endured. We desire to grow and also must believe He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him ( Heb. 11:6). That means we also desire to win the prize of the high calling (Phillipians 3:14). Therefore those in Christ should be careful not to lose their reward ( Rev. 3:11).
All this being said; there are examples of those who think they are saved but are not; as well as those who make it into heaven but suffer loss. Evidence of fruit can be seen in time; and each of us are responsible to test ourselves to see if we are in the faith ( 2 Cor. 13:5). Seek and ye shall find ( Matt 7:7-8
And, yes, the original discussion was about Judas, and so, it may be time to close this thread and begin a new one on baptism, if you wish. For me, I think it is time for me to exit this thread. God's blessings to you and Jesse, always.
Romans 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
Paul is asking if there is someone without faith, shall their lack of faith cancel out the faithfulness of God?
Paul answers that in vs 4 God forbid:
Israel's failures doesn't void out the promises of God.
God's promise to send Israel the redeemer was not voided by their wilful disobedience and rejection.
All his promises for the future of the nation will be fulfilled to his glory in spite of their unbelief. This is the unconditional covenant God made with Abraham.
Here's a few more verses causes people to believe the Church is the new Israel.
Galatians 3:28-29.
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Romans 2:28-29
"For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Now these verses is not talking about an ethnic group.
Paul gives us the subject of the matter in Romans 3:1.
"What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?"
Now here is where Paul was actually contrasting the Jews and the law, and the promise by faith of Jesus Christ.
Colossians 2:11-12.
This contrast the belief that righteousness came by the outwardly circumcised jew and the circumcision of the heart, in the spirit,
In other words Abraham was given the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith before he was circumcised.
Romans 4:11-13.
So Jew and Israel is not always used synonymous in the scripture.