The book of Revelation is about much more than just end time events. And it, like every other book in the Bible is an integral part of the Word of God as a Whole. So if we add or take away something to or from Revelation we have added or taken away from the Word of God, the Bible, of which God is the Author.
So we have to make a decision. Is the Bible ALONE and in its ENTIRETY going to be our AUTHORITY; or is the Bible PLUS a dream or a voice or a vision or a tongue that we believe came directly from God our AUTHORITY.
That is not an insignificant or inconsequential decision.
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not.
BEHOLD, YOUR HOUSE IS LEFT UNTO DESOLATE.
For I say unto you, YE SHALL NOT DEE ME HENCEFORTH, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord."
God left their house abandoned, and how can they still be His chosen people?
There is a huge difference between the tribulations, persecutions, hardships, trials which all of that can be summed up to the "cross" we, christians, have to bear on our shoulders during the course of our christian life and the great Tribulation that will occur just before the end
All the tribulations we suffer in this life initiate either by satan, or by the sinful world and often by our wrong choices in life BUT never from God. The great Tribulation is not like any other tribulation in this world. Only the great flood and the burning of Sodom and Gomorrah can be compared to that But the latter were local tribulations/punishments, this time it will affect the whole world. That tribulation will be God's condemnation of the sinful world, His anger will be poured on earth. So as you can see they are completely different things.
Jesus said that at the end it will be like Noah's or Lot's days. First the Lord took them away and then His punishment came to those places. And this is sensible. How could the righteous people suffer during God's condemnation of the sinful world? Abraham asked the Lord, " if there are 10 righteous people in these cities still you will destruct those places? " No said the Lord. God can not destruct the sinful world as long as His people are still on earth. First He will remove them and then the Flood will come.
The specific verse at the end of Rev you stated is about the prophesy. Which prophesy? The Revelation. We cannot generalize it for the whole Scripture. It is specifically about the Revelation. And you know why? Because the Lord wants people who will be going through those events, they should know what exactly will be going on and how to face it. So nothing must be added or subtracted.
This does not mean that one can add or subtract from other parts of the Bible. But. Think about all those tenths of different christian beliefs. They are often very different between them. Some explain things in a different way, others have added things like the R/Catholics, other have subtracted things. So what is going to be the end of this whole thing? Who is going to be saved if that verse is applicable to the whole Bible? Almost none, isn't it so? Just a few teams. Think of the first Christian Hebrew church. Thousands of them followed the Mosaic Law as well as the gospel under the tolerance of the apostles. Did God reject them? No. Thousands of Catholics and Eastern Orthodox christians although they are born again they follow customs and practices added to the Gospel. Does God reject them? Once more, no. So we can not apply the warnings of that verse to the whole Bible.
I don't know which website you personally found this, I've stated a few times the writing of the Quakers, specifically between 1646-1700.
But,
Lets look at what you found & quoted:
""That leads us to the second key principle, our belief in continued revelation. In the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament, we read many stories of God communicating directly with people. Friends believe God's revelations have never stopped, and that God might reach out to any one of us at any time."
They're referencing the Bible, it does not say anything concerning addition or subtraction from the Scriptures was made. Could it be an opening of their understanding of the Scriptures? This would be a continuing revelation as the Scriptures give witness to. John 16:131Cor 3:2
God must be free to speak to the relevant things in our lives & society, this would be a revelation too!
David0921
You're the one who are injecting this prejudice opinion of Divine Revelation apart from the Bible that's no were stated here in your quote!
One other thing that been on my heart to speak to you, if you would just open yourself to Holy Spirit & allow Him to speak, move & work in you His own Way, & that would be spiritually, what a bond-servant Christ would have for Himself in you. His Spirit was sent to replace Christ manifestation in the flesh, John 16:7 to teach us all things, is not a lie, & to be ever present with us, I've been pointing this out Scripturally over & over, but it appears that for now it is hidden from you, for you have not had enough humble pie from you last "no visions or dreams statement.
Friend; just for the record, I've had many, many, many humble pies through the years, His longsuffering love was exceedingly extend towards me, blessing & praise to His Holy Name.
Romans 1:16 -2:10 mentions 3 times "to the Jew first & then to the Gentile/Greek".! Reading them Im not understanding Gods purpose of placing It in that order. Is it because He knew they'd be harder to turn to Christ? And whats the signifacance of them remaining His 'chosen' ppl after they had Jesus crusified? it does make sense "if" when they Finally Realize who Jesus truly was/is, they will be so happy they found Gods truth they will be more faithful servents,.! Any other ideas or facts?
In a field there was a cross, and on it Jesus. His Blood was pouring down the earth. A large eagle was approaching from far far away. That eagle was the mankind. The eagle looked exhausted, with no strength, ready to fall down, it could hardly fly. The eagle approached the cross. It went down at Jesus' feet. Jesus' Blood made a little pool on the ground. The eagle took Jesus ' Blood with its peak and started washing its body with it, poured it all over its body.. Doing that he was filled with power. He looked strong and healthy now. It jumped to the air and flew away from the cross and continue its trip to its destination.
It is true that God reveals Himself to His people since the very beginning, He never stopped doing that, one way or another. The same way He revealed Himself to Abraham, the same way he does today. Is there any possibility that a father does not want to communicate with His children? No, there isn't, isn't it so? We haven't believed in myths and fairy tales but in a true and existing God who always has made clear to His people that He is there to support and help them, with real proofs. He goes very personal sometimes when He knows there is a need. The idea that God wrote some scripture to us some thousands years ago and then this is it, no communication any more, is not right. Just think of yourself. You, say,, have a kid, then when he is a child you leave a note to him with instructions on how he should live his life and then you go secret for the rest of his life, just observing him from a distance. Sounds sensible? To me, no it doesn't.
About visions now. If a vision is about something very personal, then yes it should remain private. But if it is not something that has to be a secret and it helps others as well, why not tell them? I got very lifted up with my wife's visions. Of course they are about her, but they made me feel that God is real, we often forget that in our everyday life, lost in our struggles and obligations to cope with this life. It is good to always have a proof that God is watching us all the time, then peace comes to our minds, we are not alone out there, there is somebody who is capable of everything and that person is our heavenly Father.
Jema thank you for your comment. The time period the Bible calls great tribulation will be the final test for all Believers still alive before the return of our Lord Jesus Christ. In ( 2 Thess. 2:3) We are told "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, (that day is the return of Jesus Christ and our gathering together unto him as we are told in ( 2 Thess. 2:1) the rapture) except there come a (falling away) first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition".
The words (falling away) is #646; it means defection from truth, ["apostasy"] something separative, divorce, (writing of) divorcement.
The final test for Believers will cause many to fallaway from the truth. What is truth? ( John. 14:6)
The (writing of) divorcement would have to be True Believers who fallaway from the truth, from Jesus Christ!
Life may be one long test as you said Jema, but the tribulation period will be the final test (a time of trouble like never was before) the Bible speaks of that many will fail according to ( 2 Thess. 2:3). They fallaway.
I agree Jema when life gets you down we should be praying harder.
The falling away will be True Believers and if the return of our Lord Jesus Christ for His church is AFTER the tribulation as we see in ( Mt. 24:29-31) then the falling away could possibly be those who think they will be saved or rescued (before the tribulation period) and when they are facing really troublesome times they will loose their faith and fall away from Jesus Christ, thus receiving a (writing of) divorcement.
I do not post to be in agreement with others like many here seem to think is so important.
I try to show the truth when many others see things another way, that's much more important than just being in agreement with someone else.
This is why I post so much on this subject, it is truly an important one! And as this comment will show I do see it as a salvation issue!
It is God that must work in the understanding of the True Believer to reveal Truth from the Bible. And God is certainly the one that opens doors for the True Gospel to go forth. And He also works in the lives of True Believers to direct them by causing various circumstances to develop in their lives, sometime as chastisement. These things are Very Different from receiving Devine Revelation from God as occurred before the Bible was completed.
As far as miracles are concerned, we must first define what a miracle is. When God created the world, when Jesus walked on water, when Jesus healed miraculously, i.e. any Miracle at all IS when God sets aside the physical laws by which He governs the Universe. God is not doing this today.
Any time anyone becomes healed from a sickness or a disease, it is God at work. But it is not a Miracle. Mankind does not understand all of the workings of the human body nor the affects of medicines. Healings of our day may seem miraculous, but they are not. They are God at work through the natural laws and processes He has established to govern the world and our well being.
There is one very specific Miracle that God has performed throughout time and is still performing today. And that is the Miracle of Salvation where God creates a New Resurrected Soul within each person that becomes saved. That is becoming Born Again.
So, GiGi, it really comes down to: What is the "Word" of God that we are following and that is our Authority? Is it the Bible Alone and in its Entirety; or is it the Bible plus a dream or a vision or a voice or a tongue that we believe we have received directly from God. We cannot have it both ways.
And I believe that God insists on the former and warns against the latter. And that is why we have Revelation 22:18,19 at the very end of the Bible.
Issac Peningtion was a Quaker. The quotation below is from the Quaker web site:
"That leads us to the second key principle, our belief in continued revelation. In the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament, we read many stories of God communicating directly with people. Friends believe God's revelations have never stopped, and that God might reach out to any one of us at any time."
That quotation is a denial that "The Bible ALONE and In its ENTIRETY is that Word of God. And is in violation of Revelation 22:18.
There are have been many "gospels" throughout the whole New Testament period that have looked for and accepted Devine Revelation apart from that Bible itself.
In speaking for myself, I would never consider following a "gospel" that accepts Devine Revelation apart from the Bible itself.
I do agree that with what is said in the passage you quoted in Revelation. I understand it to mean that there will be no more addition to what is considered Scriptures that have authority over all Christian believers. But God does work in the lives of individuals in ways described in the Bible throughout the past 2000 years.
Consider some of the great evangelists like George Mueller, Hudson Taylor, etc. who prayed for God to open doors for the gospel to reach non believers and for funding to come to their work when they had none and no source they knew of and the funds did arrive on time from sources unknown to them because someone was urged by the Holy Spirit to give to their work. Consider how some are healed miraculously. My friend contracted Hepatitis C from blood transfusions following the birth of her third child 33 years ago when there was not a cure. She prayed and believed God would heal her. When she went in for follow ups there was no trace of Hep C and she has not had any signs of this illness since..
I believe that God works still in ways described in the Scriptures. But I know that we are not to seek for things like visions and dreams, etc. And I never have done so. But what I have experienced was real and life-changing to refine me and promote a stronger walk with God. He was the initiator of these events, not that I was seeking them. Before these I just didn't think I would be one that would be the recipient of such things from God. But God chose to reach to me in such ways and I immediately went to the Bible to test to see if such are from the Lord.
David, I certainly do think that Scripture is given for us to know God and His will for us. To know the gospel that leads us to our Savior, Jesus Christ, to know how God has been active throughout the history of man and since the world was created.
I also believe that we cannot limit God in what He chooses to do. We should guard against attributing to Satan what is the work of God.
Good Day Christian travelers! My wife in her devotions yesterday shared with me this verse:
"And of thy sons that shall issue from thee, which thou shalt beget, shall they take away; and they shall be eunuchs in the palace of the king of Babylon." Isaiah 39:7 KJV
The treasure of the Kingdom of Christ should be preserved within and not shared with princes of Babylon. We can be ambassadors of this Kingdom to all that are drawn through the same gate that we passed through. Time was extended as part of this literal event in Hezekiah's life. Our life was extended from earthly to heavenly and must be preserved.
Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil.
King Solomon saw the folly of not speedialy punishing the wicked. In this day and age, criminals are let go with a slap on the wrist. This only enables them to commit more crimes.
Jesus laid down His life so that people could be forgiven for their sins. He didn't lay down His life so that the wicked could commit crimes with impunity. They should be stopped by whatever means necessary, even if it means cutting off their hand(s) to prevent them from using a weapon or grabbing someone.
7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.
9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.
Deuteronomy 7
6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth
Amos 3
2 You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.
Matthew 15
24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Luke 1
68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
Romans 9
1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
We have to start with an understanding of what Revelation 22:18 is teaching.
"For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:"
As God was writing the Bible He was continually "Adding" to His Word, the Bible, "the prophecy of this book". And prophecy in the largest senses is a synonym for the entire Bible, itself. God did this in many ways, including direct communication with mankind in dreams and voices and visions, and tongues. Often times God even repeated words and phrases and ideas from one part of the Bible in another part of the Bible.
And if we were to remove or ignore one part of the Bible, even though it were a repetition, we would be taking away from "the words of the book of this prophecy" Revelation 22:19.
So any dream or voice or vision or tongue we would claim to be directly from God, would be an "Addition" to the Bible. And that is not possible once God had completed the Bible. That would be a clear violation of Revelation 22:18.
Furthermore, as we approach the end
of the world, God declares that Satan will be allowed to come with "signs and wonders" as we read in
Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
So this matter of signs and wonders and miracles and visions and voices and tongues is very serious business and is actually a testing program that God has established FOR OUR DAY to test churches and congregations and individuals as to whether or not we will be satisfied with the Word God has given us in the Bible. Or are we going to accept the idea of "Additional" revelation apart from the Bible, itself.
Is it not interesting that in the last few decades we have seen an explosion within the churches of an interest in this kind of phenomena.
I've felt lead to read this article this morning, "Babylon the Great Described" by Issac Peningtion 1659 felt this excert from it would be a help for all of us.
THE redemption of the soul is by the Spirit of the Lord; which he that would enjoy from it, must know its appearance and operation in himself, and not quench or limit it, but universally be subject to its guidance and leadings. All man's inward misery arises from man's inward rebellion, which is as the sin of witchcraft (springing from the spirit of witchcraft). His recovery and happiness are in the faith and obedience to the pure power, movings, and operations of the Spirit in him.
The Lord God, who made mankind, who is the Lord of all, he is redeeming a people to himself by his Spirit. And this Spirit will not be limited by the powers of the earth, but will break nations in pieces, and trample upon princes as mortar, and as the potter treadeth clay, till it hath made its way through them.
Oh! open the eye, the inward eye, which can discern the seasons. It is not now the time for antichrist to prevail, or for proud flesh to rise up in its heady will, to stop the outgoings of its Maker. This season is past; and the season of the prevailing of the life and power of the Sun of Righteousness is now come.
Therefore lift up your heads, O ye weak and faint of the flock! for iniquity and oppression must fall both within and without; and the tender God of everlasting love will turn back the captivity of his people, and of his creatures. Be not therefore affrighted at the inward power of sin in the heart, nor at the outward oppressing powers of the earth; for the Redeemer's strength is above all, and he is stretching forth his mighty arm to save: in the true and living faith of the elect it is felt..
See, our Lord JESUS said Judas Iscariots was a devil. John 6:70-71 : -->70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.
About Peter is different, first he was not a devil, but a true disciple of the LORD. What really happen? JESUS had just said to the disciples and reveals how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. The sound that comes out of Pedro's mouth contradict LITERALLY what JESUS had just said: Matthew 16:22 - Then Peter took JESUS, and began to REBUKE Him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. In that moment Peter spoke by the spirit of a mere or common man made of the dust, as it happened in Genesis 3:1, the spirit of Christ was replaced by the spirit of man born of Devil, bnorn of sin. It's terrible. The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of GOD, it's is danger, very danger, to speak of the Word of GOD-the Word is GOD - by the spirit of man, and not by the Holy Spirit. It is very danger to peach the Word of GOD by the letter, the Holy Spirit doesn't do this because the letter kills, kills the souls.
Nowhere; it likely came from what was a pagan winter celebration on the first day of winter solstice around December 21. It is claimed that the sheep being tended the way described meant that it wasn't early winter when Christ was born; they would be protected inside and not roaming freely in the cold and rainy season. Apparently some early traditions say it was March 25 from what I just read today.
We see an even clearer Pagan dating with what is called "Easter" which came from "Ishtar" apparently; a pagan fertility celebration that occurred in Spring of each year. The proper word for celebrating the death; burial and resurrection would be either Resurrection Day or a fulfillment of the Passover feast. Clearly easter eggs and bunny rabbits have nothing to do with the Resurrection of Christ!
This sort of logic could even be expanded to what we call Halloween today (which of course is a high holy day for Satanists and all those other pagan celebrants) Catholics have "All Saints Day" or "All Hallows' Day" on November 1 which in theory seems to be ok; this is similar to "St. Valentine" being associated with Valentine's Day; or "St Patrick's Day" in the Spring. Today; of course these events are celebrated as an Eros type of love fest in February; and drunken debauchery during parades in the Spring. The real St. Patrick would have rolled over in his grave seeing this-as it certainly appeared he was a true man of God with his quest to reach the Pagans in much of Ireland at the time.
Hanukkah or the "Festival of Lights" is celebrated for 8 days right around the time of Christmas; and interestingly even though Christ went to the Temple at that time ( John 10:22-23) it isn't mentioned in the Old Testament! It comes from the time between the Testaments and is also known as the "Feast of Dedication." That is related to taking over or rededicating the Temple after Antiochus Epiphanes had briefly profaned the Temple in 168 B.C. and the Maccabean conquest.
So many great older posts on here , hello to RLBLAMESA , hope you are still out there and thank you to everyone who has contributed to this site and left such a wonderful wealth of beauty and truth .
Hi Jimbob , I always appreciate your posts . I also believe that many Christians will live through some very tough times before Christ returns . As for our faith bring tested , I think that life itself in these kingdoms of men is one long test :) . We must also remember that when our faith is tested and we stick with our God , that means our faith is stronger ! That's definitely a good thing , so we should meet these tests head on when they come to us . Living in this world in our bodies of flesh can often be distressing , even if our own circumstances are relatively safe and happy , we have to witness the distresses of others , the cruelty and cold heartedness that's all around us . It can be hard to switch all this off sometimes . When these things get me down , that's when I pray even harder : Thy Kingdom Come ! Only when humans realise that they are not in charge of anything and that there is a God in Heaven who is all powerful , benevolent and has a wonderful plan for His creation , only when the hearts and minds of all flesh are blessed with knowledge of and appreciation for , the Holy One of Israel and His Son our Sinless Redeemer , will we all be able to truly rejoice together as children , brothers and sisters in Christ , who have the most loving and wise and generous parents we could ever desire , only then with this earth be filled with the Glory of the Lord . That Glory is us , His creation , worshipping and loving Him in peace and purity for ever .
( 1 Thess. 3:3-4) The word (afflictions) in v3, and the word (tribulation) in v4 both have the same meaning in the Greek language #2347; they mean pressure, afflicted (-tion) anguish, burdened, persecution, trouble. v3 says "That no man should be moved by these (afflictions): for yourselves know that ((we are appointed thereunto))". This verse tells us that we are to see afflictions which means pressure, anguish, burdened, persecution, trouble, which also is the same meaning as the word (tribulation). v4 tells us "we should suffer tribulation"
( Acts. 14:22) "Confirming the souls of the (disciples) and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much (tribulation) enter into the kingdom of God". We must go through much tribulation, which means pressure, afflicted, anguish, burdened, persecution, trouble.
( 1 Peter. 1:7) "That the (trial) of your faith being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be (tried) with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ".
The word (trial) is #1383; it means a testing, trustworthiness, trying, test.
The word (tried) is #1381; it means to test, by implying to approve, examine, try.
This verse tells us that Believers faith will be tested, could a testing of your faith be through pressure, affliction, anguish, burdened, persecution, trouble?
( 1 Peter. 4:12-13) v12 "Beloved, think it not strange concerning the (fiery trial) which is to (try) you, as though some strange thing happened unto you.
The words (fiery trial) is #4451; it means calamity, as a test.
The word (try) is #974; it means to test, to investigate, examine, try, trial.
( Ps. 11:4-5) "The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD'S throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids (try) the children of men.
The word (try) is #974; it means to test, to investigate, examine, try, trial.
Yes Believers will be tested in tribulation, It is written.
I don't think so, there's no reason to look into it if the Bible doesn't say it. The Bible clearly says Satan entered Judas, but never says anything about him entering any of the sons of God. I also believe that the sons of God were saved, but I'm unsure if they could be possessed because of the Holy Spirit not being in people in the OT. From what I understand though is that you have to in some way invite a demon in through your way of living or actually saying it. At least what I've read from spiritual warfare books and learned at college. The Sons of God coming to worship would not have let a demon into them.
Do you think it's possible , that in Job , when the sons of God went to the temple to worship God , as they are believers in God , could it be that satan entered one of them ( in the same way he did with Judas and even briefly Peter ) who then pronounced curses on Job because he was jealous of Job ? Jealous of him because he was devout and well blessed by God ? Envy is a terrible sin and it could be that a person , who was envious of Job to such an extent , that it gave occasion for that person to curse Job and all that he had ? God then took away all the things from Job that that person envied about him , his family his wealth and finally his good health but , no amount of suffering and despair on Job's part could cause Job to curse God and sin . So in effect Job proved to that person , who ever it was , that nothing mattered to Job more than his faith in God did , his faith in God which could not be shaken no matter how dire his circumstances . Job lost everything that we humans value highly but nothing could make him loose his faith in God . Whoever Job's ' adversary ' was , he didn't get the better of Job . I hope I have explained my thoughts clearly there .
The book of Revelation is about much more than just end time events. And it, like every other book in the Bible is an integral part of the Word of God as a Whole. So if we add or take away something to or from Revelation we have added or taken away from the Word of God, the Bible, of which God is the Author.
So we have to make a decision. Is the Bible ALONE and in its ENTIRETY going to be our AUTHORITY; or is the Bible PLUS a dream or a voice or a vision or a tongue that we believe came directly from God our AUTHORITY.
That is not an insignificant or inconsequential decision.
As Jesus was approaching Jerusalem, He said that:
Matthew 23:37-39,
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not.
BEHOLD, YOUR HOUSE IS LEFT UNTO DESOLATE.
For I say unto you, YE SHALL NOT DEE ME HENCEFORTH, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord."
God left their house abandoned, and how can they still be His chosen people?
Thanks for your reply. At this point, I don't feel a need to reply more than what I have already shared with you. But I do appreciate your input.
There is a huge difference between the tribulations, persecutions, hardships, trials which all of that can be summed up to the "cross" we, christians, have to bear on our shoulders during the course of our christian life and the great Tribulation that will occur just before the end
All the tribulations we suffer in this life initiate either by satan, or by the sinful world and often by our wrong choices in life BUT never from God. The great Tribulation is not like any other tribulation in this world. Only the great flood and the burning of Sodom and Gomorrah can be compared to that But the latter were local tribulations/punishments, this time it will affect the whole world. That tribulation will be God's condemnation of the sinful world, His anger will be poured on earth. So as you can see they are completely different things.
Jesus said that at the end it will be like Noah's or Lot's days. First the Lord took them away and then His punishment came to those places. And this is sensible. How could the righteous people suffer during God's condemnation of the sinful world? Abraham asked the Lord, " if there are 10 righteous people in these cities still you will destruct those places? " No said the Lord. God can not destruct the sinful world as long as His people are still on earth. First He will remove them and then the Flood will come.
GBU
The specific verse at the end of Rev you stated is about the prophesy. Which prophesy? The Revelation. We cannot generalize it for the whole Scripture. It is specifically about the Revelation. And you know why? Because the Lord wants people who will be going through those events, they should know what exactly will be going on and how to face it. So nothing must be added or subtracted.
This does not mean that one can add or subtract from other parts of the Bible. But. Think about all those tenths of different christian beliefs. They are often very different between them. Some explain things in a different way, others have added things like the R/Catholics, other have subtracted things. So what is going to be the end of this whole thing? Who is going to be saved if that verse is applicable to the whole Bible? Almost none, isn't it so? Just a few teams. Think of the first Christian Hebrew church. Thousands of them followed the Mosaic Law as well as the gospel under the tolerance of the apostles. Did God reject them? No. Thousands of Catholics and Eastern Orthodox christians although they are born again they follow customs and practices added to the Gospel. Does God reject them? Once more, no. So we can not apply the warnings of that verse to the whole Bible.
GBU
I don't know which website you personally found this, I've stated a few times the writing of the Quakers, specifically between 1646-1700.
But,
Lets look at what you found & quoted:
""That leads us to the second key principle, our belief in continued revelation. In the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament, we read many stories of God communicating directly with people. Friends believe God's revelations have never stopped, and that God might reach out to any one of us at any time."
They're referencing the Bible, it does not say anything concerning addition or subtraction from the Scriptures was made. Could it be an opening of their understanding of the Scriptures? This would be a continuing revelation as the Scriptures give witness to. John 16:13 1Cor 3:2
God must be free to speak to the relevant things in our lives & society, this would be a revelation too!
David0921
You're the one who are injecting this prejudice opinion of Divine Revelation apart from the Bible that's no were stated here in your quote!
One other thing that been on my heart to speak to you, if you would just open yourself to Holy Spirit & allow Him to speak, move & work in you His own Way, & that would be spiritually, what a bond-servant Christ would have for Himself in you. His Spirit was sent to replace Christ manifestation in the flesh, John 16:7 to teach us all things, is not a lie, & to be ever present with us, I've been pointing this out Scripturally over & over, but it appears that for now it is hidden from you, for you have not had enough humble pie from you last "no visions or dreams statement.
Friend; just for the record, I've had many, many, many humble pies through the years, His longsuffering love was exceedingly extend towards me, blessing & praise to His Holy Name.
Proverbs 6:23 1 Pet 5:5
In love & truth
A vision a brother had.
In a field there was a cross, and on it Jesus. His Blood was pouring down the earth. A large eagle was approaching from far far away. That eagle was the mankind. The eagle looked exhausted, with no strength, ready to fall down, it could hardly fly. The eagle approached the cross. It went down at Jesus' feet. Jesus' Blood made a little pool on the ground. The eagle took Jesus ' Blood with its peak and started washing its body with it, poured it all over its body.. Doing that he was filled with power. He looked strong and healthy now. It jumped to the air and flew away from the cross and continue its trip to its destination.
It is true that God reveals Himself to His people since the very beginning, He never stopped doing that, one way or another. The same way He revealed Himself to Abraham, the same way he does today. Is there any possibility that a father does not want to communicate with His children? No, there isn't, isn't it so? We haven't believed in myths and fairy tales but in a true and existing God who always has made clear to His people that He is there to support and help them, with real proofs. He goes very personal sometimes when He knows there is a need. The idea that God wrote some scripture to us some thousands years ago and then this is it, no communication any more, is not right. Just think of yourself. You, say,, have a kid, then when he is a child you leave a note to him with instructions on how he should live his life and then you go secret for the rest of his life, just observing him from a distance. Sounds sensible? To me, no it doesn't.
About visions now. If a vision is about something very personal, then yes it should remain private. But if it is not something that has to be a secret and it helps others as well, why not tell them? I got very lifted up with my wife's visions. Of course they are about her, but they made me feel that God is real, we often forget that in our everyday life, lost in our struggles and obligations to cope with this life. It is good to always have a proof that God is watching us all the time, then peace comes to our minds, we are not alone out there, there is somebody who is capable of everything and that person is our heavenly Father.
WE ARE NOT ALONE, thanks God.
GBU
The words (falling away) is #646; it means defection from truth, ["apostasy"] something separative, divorce, (writing of) divorcement.
The final test for Believers will cause many to fallaway from the truth. What is truth? ( John. 14:6)
The (writing of) divorcement would have to be True Believers who fallaway from the truth, from Jesus Christ!
Life may be one long test as you said Jema, but the tribulation period will be the final test (a time of trouble like never was before) the Bible speaks of that many will fail according to ( 2 Thess. 2:3). They fallaway.
I agree Jema when life gets you down we should be praying harder.
The falling away will be True Believers and if the return of our Lord Jesus Christ for His church is AFTER the tribulation as we see in ( Mt. 24:29-31) then the falling away could possibly be those who think they will be saved or rescued (before the tribulation period) and when they are facing really troublesome times they will loose their faith and fall away from Jesus Christ, thus receiving a (writing of) divorcement.
I do not post to be in agreement with others like many here seem to think is so important.
I try to show the truth when many others see things another way, that's much more important than just being in agreement with someone else.
This is why I post so much on this subject, it is truly an important one! And as this comment will show I do see it as a salvation issue!
God Bless you Jema.
It is God that must work in the understanding of the True Believer to reveal Truth from the Bible. And God is certainly the one that opens doors for the True Gospel to go forth. And He also works in the lives of True Believers to direct them by causing various circumstances to develop in their lives, sometime as chastisement. These things are Very Different from receiving Devine Revelation from God as occurred before the Bible was completed.
As far as miracles are concerned, we must first define what a miracle is. When God created the world, when Jesus walked on water, when Jesus healed miraculously, i.e. any Miracle at all IS when God sets aside the physical laws by which He governs the Universe. God is not doing this today.
Any time anyone becomes healed from a sickness or a disease, it is God at work. But it is not a Miracle. Mankind does not understand all of the workings of the human body nor the affects of medicines. Healings of our day may seem miraculous, but they are not. They are God at work through the natural laws and processes He has established to govern the world and our well being.
There is one very specific Miracle that God has performed throughout time and is still performing today. And that is the Miracle of Salvation where God creates a New Resurrected Soul within each person that becomes saved. That is becoming Born Again.
So, GiGi, it really comes down to: What is the "Word" of God that we are following and that is our Authority? Is it the Bible Alone and in its Entirety; or is it the Bible plus a dream or a vision or a voice or a tongue that we believe we have received directly from God. We cannot have it both ways.
And I believe that God insists on the former and warns against the latter. And that is why we have Revelation 22:18,19 at the very end of the Bible.
Issac Peningtion was a Quaker. The quotation below is from the Quaker web site:
"That leads us to the second key principle, our belief in continued revelation. In the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament, we read many stories of God communicating directly with people. Friends believe God's revelations have never stopped, and that God might reach out to any one of us at any time."
That quotation is a denial that "The Bible ALONE and In its ENTIRETY is that Word of God. And is in violation of Revelation 22:18.
There are have been many "gospels" throughout the whole New Testament period that have looked for and accepted Devine Revelation apart from that Bible itself.
In speaking for myself, I would never consider following a "gospel" that accepts Devine Revelation apart from the Bible itself.
I do agree that with what is said in the passage you quoted in Revelation. I understand it to mean that there will be no more addition to what is considered Scriptures that have authority over all Christian believers. But God does work in the lives of individuals in ways described in the Bible throughout the past 2000 years.
Consider some of the great evangelists like George Mueller, Hudson Taylor, etc. who prayed for God to open doors for the gospel to reach non believers and for funding to come to their work when they had none and no source they knew of and the funds did arrive on time from sources unknown to them because someone was urged by the Holy Spirit to give to their work. Consider how some are healed miraculously. My friend contracted Hepatitis C from blood transfusions following the birth of her third child 33 years ago when there was not a cure. She prayed and believed God would heal her. When she went in for follow ups there was no trace of Hep C and she has not had any signs of this illness since..
I believe that God works still in ways described in the Scriptures. But I know that we are not to seek for things like visions and dreams, etc. And I never have done so. But what I have experienced was real and life-changing to refine me and promote a stronger walk with God. He was the initiator of these events, not that I was seeking them. Before these I just didn't think I would be one that would be the recipient of such things from God. But God chose to reach to me in such ways and I immediately went to the Bible to test to see if such are from the Lord.
David, I certainly do think that Scripture is given for us to know God and His will for us. To know the gospel that leads us to our Savior, Jesus Christ, to know how God has been active throughout the history of man and since the world was created.
I also believe that we cannot limit God in what He chooses to do. We should guard against attributing to Satan what is the work of God.
"And of thy sons that shall issue from thee, which thou shalt beget, shall they take away; and they shall be eunuchs in the palace of the king of Babylon." Isaiah 39:7 KJV
The treasure of the Kingdom of Christ should be preserved within and not shared with princes of Babylon. We can be ambassadors of this Kingdom to all that are drawn through the same gate that we passed through. Time was extended as part of this literal event in Hezekiah's life. Our life was extended from earthly to heavenly and must be preserved.
Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil.
King Solomon saw the folly of not speedialy punishing the wicked. In this day and age, criminals are let go with a slap on the wrist. This only enables them to commit more crimes.
Jesus laid down His life so that people could be forgiven for their sins. He didn't lay down His life so that the wicked could commit crimes with impunity. They should be stopped by whatever means necessary, even if it means cutting off their hand(s) to prevent them from using a weapon or grabbing someone.
Genesis 17
7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.
9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.
Deuteronomy 7
6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth
Amos 3
2 You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.
Matthew 15
24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Luke 1
68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
Romans 9
1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
We have to start with an understanding of what Revelation 22:18 is teaching.
"For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:"
As God was writing the Bible He was continually "Adding" to His Word, the Bible, "the prophecy of this book". And prophecy in the largest senses is a synonym for the entire Bible, itself. God did this in many ways, including direct communication with mankind in dreams and voices and visions, and tongues. Often times God even repeated words and phrases and ideas from one part of the Bible in another part of the Bible.
And if we were to remove or ignore one part of the Bible, even though it were a repetition, we would be taking away from "the words of the book of this prophecy" Revelation 22:19.
So any dream or voice or vision or tongue we would claim to be directly from God, would be an "Addition" to the Bible. And that is not possible once God had completed the Bible. That would be a clear violation of Revelation 22:18.
Furthermore, as we approach the end
of the world, God declares that Satan will be allowed to come with "signs and wonders" as we read in
Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
So this matter of signs and wonders and miracles and visions and voices and tongues is very serious business and is actually a testing program that God has established FOR OUR DAY to test churches and congregations and individuals as to whether or not we will be satisfied with the Word God has given us in the Bible. Or are we going to accept the idea of "Additional" revelation apart from the Bible, itself.
Is it not interesting that in the last few decades we have seen an explosion within the churches of an interest in this kind of phenomena.
I've felt lead to read this article this morning, "Babylon the Great Described" by Issac Peningtion 1659 felt this excert from it would be a help for all of us.
THE redemption of the soul is by the Spirit of the Lord; which he that would enjoy from it, must know its appearance and operation in himself, and not quench or limit it, but universally be subject to its guidance and leadings. All man's inward misery arises from man's inward rebellion, which is as the sin of witchcraft (springing from the spirit of witchcraft). His recovery and happiness are in the faith and obedience to the pure power, movings, and operations of the Spirit in him.
The Lord God, who made mankind, who is the Lord of all, he is redeeming a people to himself by his Spirit. And this Spirit will not be limited by the powers of the earth, but will break nations in pieces, and trample upon princes as mortar, and as the potter treadeth clay, till it hath made its way through them.
Oh! open the eye, the inward eye, which can discern the seasons. It is not now the time for antichrist to prevail, or for proud flesh to rise up in its heady will, to stop the outgoings of its Maker. This season is past; and the season of the prevailing of the life and power of the Sun of Righteousness is now come.
Therefore lift up your heads, O ye weak and faint of the flock! for iniquity and oppression must fall both within and without; and the tender God of everlasting love will turn back the captivity of his people, and of his creatures. Be not therefore affrighted at the inward power of sin in the heart, nor at the outward oppressing powers of the earth; for the Redeemer's strength is above all, and he is stretching forth his mighty arm to save: in the true and living faith of the elect it is felt..
in L & T
See, our Lord JESUS said Judas Iscariots was a devil. John 6:70-71 : -->70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.
About Peter is different, first he was not a devil, but a true disciple of the LORD. What really happen? JESUS had just said to the disciples and reveals how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. The sound that comes out of Pedro's mouth contradict LITERALLY what JESUS had just said: Matthew 16:22 - Then Peter took JESUS, and began to REBUKE Him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. In that moment Peter spoke by the spirit of a mere or common man made of the dust, as it happened in Genesis 3:1, the spirit of Christ was replaced by the spirit of man born of Devil, bnorn of sin. It's terrible. The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of GOD, it's is danger, very danger, to speak of the Word of GOD-the Word is GOD - by the spirit of man, and not by the Holy Spirit. It is very danger to peach the Word of GOD by the letter, the Holy Spirit doesn't do this because the letter kills, kills the souls.
GOD BLESS
We see an even clearer Pagan dating with what is called "Easter" which came from "Ishtar" apparently; a pagan fertility celebration that occurred in Spring of each year. The proper word for celebrating the death; burial and resurrection would be either Resurrection Day or a fulfillment of the Passover feast. Clearly easter eggs and bunny rabbits have nothing to do with the Resurrection of Christ!
This sort of logic could even be expanded to what we call Halloween today (which of course is a high holy day for Satanists and all those other pagan celebrants) Catholics have "All Saints Day" or "All Hallows' Day" on November 1 which in theory seems to be ok; this is similar to "St. Valentine" being associated with Valentine's Day; or "St Patrick's Day" in the Spring. Today; of course these events are celebrated as an Eros type of love fest in February; and drunken debauchery during parades in the Spring. The real St. Patrick would have rolled over in his grave seeing this-as it certainly appeared he was a true man of God with his quest to reach the Pagans in much of Ireland at the time.
Hanukkah or the "Festival of Lights" is celebrated for 8 days right around the time of Christmas; and interestingly even though Christ went to the Temple at that time ( John 10:22-23) it isn't mentioned in the Old Testament! It comes from the time between the Testaments and is also known as the "Feast of Dedication." That is related to taking over or rededicating the Temple after Antiochus Epiphanes had briefly profaned the Temple in 168 B.C. and the Maccabean conquest.
( 1 Thess. 3:3-4) The word (afflictions) in v3, and the word (tribulation) in v4 both have the same meaning in the Greek language #2347; they mean pressure, afflicted (-tion) anguish, burdened, persecution, trouble. v3 says "That no man should be moved by these (afflictions): for yourselves know that ((we are appointed thereunto))". This verse tells us that we are to see afflictions which means pressure, anguish, burdened, persecution, trouble, which also is the same meaning as the word (tribulation). v4 tells us "we should suffer tribulation"
( Acts. 14:22) "Confirming the souls of the (disciples) and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much (tribulation) enter into the kingdom of God". We must go through much tribulation, which means pressure, afflicted, anguish, burdened, persecution, trouble.
( 1 Peter. 1:7) "That the (trial) of your faith being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be (tried) with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ".
The word (trial) is #1383; it means a testing, trustworthiness, trying, test.
The word (tried) is #1381; it means to test, by implying to approve, examine, try.
This verse tells us that Believers faith will be tested, could a testing of your faith be through pressure, affliction, anguish, burdened, persecution, trouble?
( 1 Peter. 4:12-13) v12 "Beloved, think it not strange concerning the (fiery trial) which is to (try) you, as though some strange thing happened unto you.
The words (fiery trial) is #4451; it means calamity, as a test.
The word (try) is #974; it means to test, to investigate, examine, try, trial.
( Ps. 11:4-5) "The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD'S throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids (try) the children of men.
The word (try) is #974; it means to test, to investigate, examine, try, trial.
Yes Believers will be tested in tribulation, It is written.
Truth matters.