There are different understandings of the second coming of Jesus. Discussing these is good if it inspires each other to study each understanding with an open mind and heart. If we don't and cling to our view with an I am right and you are wrong mindset, we lose. We never know when our eyes will be opened, I know my understanding of some things has changed over the years. Scripture does not contradict Scripture we do.
Matt. 24Mark 13 and Luke 21 are covering what Jesus told 4 of the disciples on Mount Olive just before the Lord's Supper and His crucifixion. First I would like to say my understanding these are dual prophecies and all three should be studied. There are things we can see that were for the disciples and what they were going to face. We also see things that have not yet been fulfilled.
You wrote, "Christ word out of His own mouth, which shall not pass away refutes all these words & beliefs concerning His 2nd Coming". I am sorry, I do not understand your meaning if you could expand on that.
Good morning all, morning meditations regarding king Cyrus a gentile king.
Isaiah 44:28 "That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the Temple, Thy foundation shall be laid."
Isaiah 45:1-2 "Thus saith the Lord to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;
I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight; I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:"
Ezra 5:13 "But in the first year of Cyrus king of Babylon the same king Cyrus made a decree to build this house of God."
God knew Cyrus would be king and His shepherd for a great purpose. It was all part of the ushering in of the time for the Messiah, Christ to come where regenerated gentiles could be kings in Christ in the house of God. The decree was the beginning of this time that would be detailed to Daniel and supported again in Revelation by Christ.
You state, the sun & the moon will not shine for a time;
Jesus is not literal speaking of sun, moon & the stars
Joseph dreams, Genesis 37:9 that the sun & the moon & the stars bow down & paid homage to him
Jacob interprets it, Genesis 37:10-12 representing him the sun, his mother the moon & his brothers the stars.
Rev 21:23 the Light represents the glory of the knowledge of God, that shines in the heart.
there is no more need of the light from mankind, God now speaks to us through His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, in which all things consist & have their being, that He, Christ might have the preeminence above all created things.
Friends, I ask you to consider all these Scriptures in the Light, which the Spirit gives to us in the Face of Jesus Christ.
We are part of a church that still believes that a woman shouldn't teach nor usurp authority over a man. ( 1 Tim. 2:11,12). Women still have a role in teaching children and guiding the house. Just a proper order. In America we have lost some of these concepts through different "movements" and there is pressure for the church to follow along. Maybe that is also why we have some of the "gender identity" issues in America.
I'm glad to hear you're doing fine and welcome back to the site!
We're doing fine as well.
You stated;
These seven weeks can be WEEKS OF DAYS and we know from Bible history that the years in rebuilding the holy city were very much so troublesome times. 62 more years after these seven WEEKS OF DAYS makes 69 weeks. At the end of the 69th week the Messiah came and was cut off mid-week in the 70th week.
I have ALL the 70 weeks as weeks of years, starting and ending on a specific day.
Beginning at "FROM THE GOING FORTH OF THE COMMANDMENT to restore and to build Jerusalem.
and ending at "unto the Messiah the Prince/King when Jesus "PRESENTED HIMSELF" as king
Full filing Zachariah 9:9
and a portion of Genesis 49:9-11.
"Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up?
The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; AND UNTO HIM SHALL THE GATHERING OF THE PEOPLE BE.
BINDING HIS FOAL UNTO THE VINE, AND HIS ASS'S COLT unto the choice vine;..
Daniel 9:26 says AND AFTER THREESCORE AND TWO WEEKS SHALL MESSIAH BE CUT OFF.
( It doesn't say in the middle of the 70th week. )
Daniel 9:27 Say the prince that SHALL COME he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:
That is the beginning of the 70th week.
( the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, )
1 Corinthians 11:4 discusses a woman praying or prophesying with a head covering; hence the concept of silence is only perhaps in a formal service. It also may suggest that asking questions as a distraction isn't to happen rather than the concept of always remaining silent.
These verses also show the limit of a woman in regard to expression in worship settings since they are not to have authority over a man ( 1 Timothy 2:12). This fairly well mirrors the Old Testament where at least in the Book of Judges and a few other instances there were women acting as a Prophetess. There were no female priests at least with Judaism; these occurred with pagan rights quite often; however. It will be noted the consistency in messages at that time with God's overall plan in other texts as well as overall history. Judges 4:9 is an interesting passage with Deborah predicting victory in Sisera at the hands of a woman; perhaps that is one reason God used her. It is also said the lack of visions and available male prophets at the time may have necessitated God using her in this occasion.
There are cases where women would praise God in a prophetic manner; in Exodus 15 Moses started off with a victory song; and Miriam joined in later in verses 20-21. This shows they were in one accord.
If we survey what are the fruits or results of women who take on roles forbidden in scripture usually we see spurious doctrine manifest. 1 Samuel 15:23 reminds us that rebellion is as witchcraft. We see quite often the other half of the problem; namely men that are unwilling to take on the role as head of the household and the responsibilities in worship services. Thus we have a major part of the breakdown of society.
Women also need to fully take on teaching their children; guiding younger women as well as evangelizing to women in this generation; albeit perhaps leaving some more dangerous assignments to men. A woman with more intellegence can help men behind the scenes.
Good evening brother Spencer, I hope all is well your way. Very hot here but no fires so far. :)
This scripture is the beginning of how some Amillennialism thinking Christians meditate on where we might be in time.
"Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times." Daniel 9:25 KJV
It was a very important time in Jewish history as they were carried into Babylon and by God's great Providence set free by Cyrus the King. His decree was momentous. By interpreting the seven weeks separate from the three score and two weeks as it is written it is a special period of time standing alone. These seven weeks can be weeks of days and we know from Bible history that the years in rebuilding the holy city were very much so troublesome times. 62 more years after these seven weeks of days makes 69 weeks. At the end of the 69th week the Messiah came and was cut off mid-week in the 70th week. The transgression being full in the 70th week. Approximately 3-1/2 weeks (37 years?) later in the spring was the beginning of destruction of the holy city which ended in the fall.
Part of this great mystery involves Herod the Great and he wanting to protect his kingdom and power and the spirit that enabled him was an antichrist spirit.
There are many scriptures that can point to this viewpoint with keeping all of the Gospel teachings without violence.
p2. Giannis Many who believe the pre-tribulation rapture theory will read things into verses to fit that belief and it throws off their timeline of Truth in the Lastdays prophecy.
You said "On the contrary at the 2nd coming huge catastrophes will be occurring on earth, millions will be killed by the antichrist, people will be scared to death for the things to come. The whole polital/economial system will collapse (the Babylon)"
(Lu. 21:25-26) You left out the next two verses ( Luke. 21:27-28) v27 "And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory" ( Mt. 24:30) "the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory" He comes here to (gather together) His elect ( Mt. 24:31) He is not riding a white horse to the earth here but we meet Him in the air, in the clouds the rapture ( 1 Thess. 4:15-17) The white horse is ( Rev. 19:11-16) TO THE EARTH!
This version in Luke is the same as ( Mt. 24:29-31) v29 "Immediately after the tribulation" This is the only verse in the Bible that tells us the Son of man (Jesus Christ) comes in the clouds AFTER the tribulation period but pre-tribulation rapture believers say this is the return on a white horse, it is not.
( 1 Thess. 4:15-17)
1) v16 The sound of a trumpet
2) v17 caught up (together) with them
3) v17 The Lord comes in the clouds
( Mt. 24:29-31)
1) v31 a sound of a (trumpet)
2) v31 they shall (gather together) His elect
3) v30 they shall see the (Son of man coming in the clouds)
( Rev. 19:11-16) v11 He is called Faithful and True. ( Mt. 24:30) He is called the Son of man
( Rev. 19:14) The armies which were in heaven follow Him from heaven to the earth on white horses ( Mt. 24:31) He comes in the clouds to gather together His elect.
These verses are showing us the #1 pre-tribulation rapture verse is in perfect alignment with ( Mt. 24:29-31) Immediately AFTER the tribulation.
We have to let the Scriptures speak for themselves Giannis.
Matt 24:3 " the disciples asks, what shall be the sign of Thy coming & the end of the world?
Matt 24 Jesus explains to His disciples the signs of His coming
Jesus is speaking to His disciples who are with Him in present tense. Verily I say unto you!
Matt 24:4 & said unto them, let no man deceive you Matt 24:15 when ye shall see the abomination of desolation
Matt 24:23 then if any man say unto you, lo here is Christ. Matt 24:25 Behold I have told you Matt 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you. Matt 24:33 when ye see all these things Matt 24:44 therefore be ye also ready
Matt 24:34,35
Verily I say unto you, this generation shall not pass away till all this things be fulfilled, Heaven & earth shall pass away but My word shall not pass away, This was the generation 2000 yrs ago that shall not pass away till all these things be fulfilled.
Matt 16:28Mark 9:1 standing there with Him then, saw the Kingdom come in Power
Friends, Christ word out of His own mouth, which shall not pass away refutes all these words & beliefs concerning His 2nd Coming.
Giannis thank you for replying to this post. I was just wondering if you read this post Giannis? I think I have shown very clearly that I believe Jesus Christ (the Son of man) comes After the tribulation period in the clouds ( Mt. 24:29-31) to gather together His elect, while we are at the marriage supper of the Lamb in the air or in heaven, the wrath of God is being poured out on the disobedient non-believers who were left on the earth. THEN when the marriage supper has ended Jesus comes back riding a white horse and we come back with Him. Thats 2 completely different times and the space in between them is the wrath of God happening on the earth. Jesus comes back on the white horse to end the wrath of God and start His 1000year reign on the earth.
You said of (Lu. 21:34-36) "How is it possible that Jesus warns us not to be in a state of pleasure and caring of this life when in the great tribulation christians will suffer, persecuted and get killed for their faith in God". I would have to disagree with your interpretation of that verse Giannis. Jesus is warning us ((not to become apart of)) that evil world during that time period. ( 1 Jn. 2:15-17) v36 "WATCH"
(Lu. 21:34-36) v35 "For as a (snare) shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth" The word (snare) is #3803; it means a trap (as fastened by a noose or notch) a trick or statagem. The word [statagem] means (A scheme or maneuver designed to achieve an objective, as in surprising an enemy or deceving someone)
It sounds like there will be great deception, unseen tricks, or traps set by the evil during this time period.
You said "Please pay attention to v36, that ye may be accounted worthly to escape all these things that shall come to pass"
you left out the rest of the verse, it says "and to stand before the Son of man"
The Son of man comes in the clouds to gather together His elect in ( Mt. 24:29-31) IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION.
"And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
The disciples asked Jesus 3 questions and he answered them in verse 15.
Verses 4-14 would be non signs of the end of the world. He says that in verse 6. "And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet."
And then he goes on with the beginning of these sorrows as mentioned in Matthew 24:8 until he gets to verses 14 and15.
Vs 14. "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Vs 15. "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by "DANIEL THE PROPHET, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
WHOSO READETH, LET HIM UNDERSTAND!!:
Jesus is diverting them back to Daniel 9:27 as the key to end time prophecy. The 70th week of Daniel.
"And he/Antichrist shall confirm the covenant with many FOR ONE WEEK: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,)
The Great tribulation begins in the middle of the 70th week with Jesus describing Daniels prophecy as the key and details this event in Matthew 24:16-21.
Daniel 12:9-11 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed TILL THE TIME OF THE END.
Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the ABOMINATION THAT MAKETH DESOLATE set up, there shall be a (thousand two hundred and ninety days). 3.5 years!
Israel is God's elect and so is the Church both for different purposes.
If you are saying God is not through with Israel I also hold that view.
Here's more direct set of scriptures for the "Nation" of Israel.
Ezekiel 36:22-38.
Therefore say unto the "HOUSE" of Israel,
THUS SAITH THE LORD GOD; I DO NOT THIS FOR YOUR SAKES, O HOUSE OF ISRAEL BUT FOR MINE HOLY NAME'S SAKE, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.
AND I WILL SANCTIFY MY GREAT NAME, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; AND THE HEATHEN SHALL KNOW THAT I AM THE LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I SHALL BE SANCTIFIED IN YOU BEFORE THEIR EYES.
( God will restore the Nation Israel for his Name sake )
Vs 36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, AND GATHER YOU OUT OF ALL COUNTRIES, and will bring you into your own land.
( God is going to gather them of ALL Countries!)
There has never been a gathering like this and this certainly not the Church! The Church never possessed a Land.
Vs 36:26-28. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
AND YE SHALL DWELL IN THE LAND THAT I GAVE TO YOUR FATHERS; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
There's no way to spiritualize this as to say this is the Church and God is going to rule in our hearts.
And the Spirit remains absent in them today so it didn't happen at the cross.
Again! Here's Paul pointed forward looking for salvation for his Kinsman of the flesh in Romans 11:1
"I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
"34And take heed to yourselves (believers), lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
35For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
36Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."
A few points on the above.
1. How is it possible that Jesus warns us not be in a state of pleasure and carings of this life when in the great tribulation christians will suffer, persecuted and get killed for their faith in God? How is it possible to be involved in matters of this life when christians will not accept the beast's mark and eventually won't be able even to survive in such conditions?
2. Please pay attention to verse 36, "... that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass..."
3. I have read in older posts that God will preserve us like He did with Hebrews in Egypt. But at that time they were all concetrated at a place, the Land of Goshen. In the future we will be dispersed throughout the whole earth, it is a different thing altogether.
To me it is clear that the time when Jesus comes to take His Bribe is at a different time from His 2nd coming on earth. The condition of the world in those two cases will be completely different.
At the rapture the world is the ususal normal world. People will be involved with their everyday life, not fearing for what comes next, unprepared. Why? Because life will be as usual. Matthew 24:36-40.
On the contrary at the 2nd coming huge catastrophies will be occuring on earth, millions will be killed by the antichrist, people will be scared to death for the things to come. The whole polital/economical system will collapse(the Babylon), Luke 21:25-26 and events on Revelation
2 different conditions on earth, 2 diferent events.
You asked: Do Believers go through great tribulation?
Yes, they do. Get ready, it will be the last seven years of the Devil's world. It is very important to meditate on our last days of existence in this current system of this devilish world, not because we are going to die, quite the contrary, it is because we will live, we will be alive in these last seven years of the Devil's world, this last period of time of the current world are approaching.
The journey of all believers, prepared or no, for the last seven years, and for the last spiritual sufferings of terrestrial life, it will be similar to the departure of the Hebrew people from Egypt. By the way, there will be two BEASTS reigning in the Earth, one Gentile Beast and another Jewish, that is a false lamb, a false messiah, AN IMPOSTOR, as prophesied JESUS- John 5:43-47 combined with Revelation 13:11KJV. The 1st 42 months of the last seven years, it will be ruled by the FIRST Beast enthroned in Jerusalem by the false messiah as is written in Rev.13:2 and 5-KJV. The 2nd Beast -the false messiah-will rule the 2nd half of the last seven years. Get ready.
Daniel in his prophecy, warned, saying: Daniel 12:11-12KJV
11"From the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away (yes, it shall be taken away because there was a certain period of time to cease the sacrifice or be taken out of the way, the restraining, by the way, the sacrifice of JESUS have lasted until this current time or around 720.000 days, and now will cease) and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. JESUS warned us: Matthew 24:15-"When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)if not understand, it may complicate, it is what I think), after all it will be 1290 very tense days.
12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days
The verses you stated from Jeremiah are also used by Paul in Hebrews 9:8-12. Paul considers this new covenant to Israel that Jeremiah is taking about is the New Testament that God introduced firstly to Hebrews and then to the rest of the world. But Jews didn't receive Jesus, and consequently God, so their House was left abandoned by God. Until when? Until they repend for crucifying Jesus and ask for Him. When is this going to occur? At the very end. Paul in Rom 11:25-27 says that they will be saved after the fullness of the nations will come in (the salvation).
So who are the elect now? Romans 8:30-32,
"30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of GOD'S ELECT? It is God that justifieth."
Please pay attention to the above verse 33.
God's intention when creating the Hebrew nation through Abraham was not to have a superior race than the rest who will conquer the world. His aim is to create a nation which will preserve the faith to the true God, through which at the proper time the Savior would erect to sacrifice Himself for the salvation of all people. In God's mind was the whole mankind not just a race.
So He established the church on Pentecost
Ephessians 2:14-17,
"14For he is our peace, who hath made both (Jews and gentiles) one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Very well said cuz I was confused too. Yet as I said before "God knows ALL & knew what was to happen in order to fulfill His will
by sending His Son. Jews (true ones, there are wolves in sheep clothing in ALL beliefs out there), are very true to their beliefs so when God does get ahold of them causing them to finally believe & understand His word, watch out cuz they are mighty powerful therefore I can see now why God chose them first.! So many others, from my experience, have fallen away & come back & away & back, makes me dizzy. Jews on the other hand; they're going to feel so guilty for not believing sooner that (I feel) will be more faithful after their repentance.! When God gets ahold of you & you no longer allow satan to corrupt you, your stuck & stuck good & THEN (as Sound of Freedom said) "when you hear Him speak, DO NOT HESITATE". Till then many will fall away Cuz they don't realize being in a garage doesn't make them a car.! We have to read, study & learn His word DAILY, standing up for His truth not allowing the evil world to corrupt us as well.!
The great tribulation we see in Matt. 24:21 and Rev. 7:14 is caused by the beast that arises that many call the antichrist, Rev. 13. The events we see happen in Matt. 24:29 is just before Jesus's second coming. These are signs, we are not told how long the sun and moon will be dark but this is not permanent they will shine again during the millennium.
When Jesus returns there is the first resurrection, the battle of Armageddon, then the beast and false prophet are thrown into the lake of fire and Satan is locked up in the bottomless pit. Then Jesus will set up His kingdom and the 1000 years start, and Jesus and those in the first resurrection will reign over the earth for these 1000 years.
After the 1000 years, Satan will be let out of the pit, then the last battle, this when Satan is cast into the lake of fire. Then the white throne will come down from heaven and judgment is given to the rest of the dead, then God creates a new heaven and new earth. This is when there will not be a sun or moon to light the earth because God and the Lamb will be the light.
Bible study is a wonderful lifetime journey in the word of God. When we pick up God's word, we should pray for the Holy Spirit to shine a light that lights up our understanding. Will it happen every time and will we understand all? No, but we will understand all we need and more. Patience is the key, patience is a gift from God, it is a quality or virtue of forbearance or endurance and with it, we can endure anything we face because it is God's timing, not ours. "let us run with patience the race that is set before us".
Good morning Cheryl and all! I also have questions too and I think the entire chapter mentioned is on this subject not just the selected verses. The purpose of the order of the Church is so we can listen and worship together as one body collectively in a quiet and meek yet learning way. While spiritual thoughts (prophecy) from above are being conveyed, distractions or an appearance of out of order takes a away from the spiritual worship of Jesus Christ. So my question would be if a congregation as part of the living Church feels the need to have women teaching or preaching in their behalf, why is that need present? Put another way, is not Paul here teaching the men to be in decent order? Jesus as the second Adam was complete in order in all things and in this perfect order his last message in Revelation 22:19 might mean to not block (remain clear) His message from those that hear and those who are of thirst.
Thanks you for this, it helped. I know and understand God knows ALL so He already knew that 'they may take the long road to get there yet because of their faithfulness once there, they will NOT turn away from Him as so many do'. Thanks again Chris
In ( Mt. 24:21-22) v21 "For then shall be great tribulation"
v22 Tells us "for the (elect's) sake those days shall be shortened"
The word (elect's) is #1588; it means select, by implying favorite, chosen, to select, make choice, choose (out) chosen.
God's elect are His favorite, His chosen ones in whom He will choose (out) ( Mt. 24:40-42) True Believers.
In ( Mt. 24:29-31) v29 "Immediately AFTER the tribulation"
v30 "and they shall see the Son of man (Jesus Christ) coming (in the clouds) of heaven with power and great glory"
v31 "and they shall gather together his elect"
AFTER the tribulation is when the (elect) are gathered together.
In ( Rev. 7:9) "After this I beheld, and, lo, ((a great multitude, which no man could number)), of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands".
( Rev. 7:14-17) v14 Tells us "These are they which ((came out of great tribulation)), and have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb"
A great multitude that no man could number ((came out of great tribulation)), the Son of man (Jesus Christ) comes in the clouds to gather together His elect (Immediately AFTER the tribulation)
v17 Tells us "For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall ((feed them)), and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes"
When will the Lamb feed them?
The marriage supper of the Lamb is when those who came out of great tribulation will be fed in ( Rev. 19:7-9)
A great multitude that no man could number comes out of great tribulation.
When God pours out His wrath on the earth no man will be able to enter into the temple till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled, ( Rev. 15:7-8)
All seven vials full of the wrath of God will be poured out on the earth and no man will be able to enter into the temple.
See, it is very important to meditate on our last days of existence in this current system of the current world, not because we are going to die, quite the contrary, it is because we will live, we will be alive in these last seven years of the Devil's world, this last period of time of the current world are approaching, and the journey of all believers, prepared or no, for the last days and for the last spiritual sufferings of terrestrial life, it will be similar to the departure of the Hebrew people from Egypt, on the one hand, in the first moments of exit from Egypt, we will se GOD fighting/ battling against the Enemy through His plagues and severe punishments, there will be only and only severe chastiments, on the other hand, GOD protecting His people to escape the persecution and violence of the evil ones, so will the last seven years of this present world's existence. Indeed it will be wrath against wrath, the spiritual environment will be one of fierce spiritual warfare - Revelation 11:18. Take a look. It all starts now with GOD's declaration of WAR against the Devil's world; What statement? It's in Revelation 11:15KJV - "The kingdoms of THIS WORLD are become the Lord's and of His Christ (not yet, of course), and He will reign forever. For this cause, the NATIONS will be wrathed- Revelation 11:18, but GOD will wrath also, well, if GOD is for us, who can be against us?
By the way, Michael will be with us in the WAR on this last journey- Daniel 12:1-3 combined with 1 Thessalonians 4:16 and Revelation 12:7 to 13. Take a look.
GET READY
You know: The WAR shall be/is against three unclean spirits like frogs- Revelation 16:13-15. Why frogs?
Your answer is in your post in v. 39 ..."for I say unto you, you will not see me henceforth, till you shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord."...You can see it's not implied forever more, because they will see him when he returns, and not just the southern kingdom, (house of Judah), but also the northern kingdom (house of Israel), and He will covenant with them, and they with Him.
Albeit, the conditions will be much different as declared by Jeremiah:
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
35 Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37 Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.
and Paul in writing Hebrews, (again to the Israelites):
There are different understandings of the second coming of Jesus. Discussing these is good if it inspires each other to study each understanding with an open mind and heart. If we don't and cling to our view with an I am right and you are wrong mindset, we lose. We never know when our eyes will be opened, I know my understanding of some things has changed over the years. Scripture does not contradict Scripture we do.
Matt. 24 Mark 13 and Luke 21 are covering what Jesus told 4 of the disciples on Mount Olive just before the Lord's Supper and His crucifixion. First I would like to say my understanding these are dual prophecies and all three should be studied. There are things we can see that were for the disciples and what they were going to face. We also see things that have not yet been fulfilled.
You wrote, "Christ word out of His own mouth, which shall not pass away refutes all these words & beliefs concerning His 2nd Coming". I am sorry, I do not understand your meaning if you could expand on that.
God bless,
RLW
Isaiah 44:28 "That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the Temple, Thy foundation shall be laid."
Isaiah 45:1-2 "Thus saith the Lord to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;
I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight; I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:"
Ezra 5:13 "But in the first year of Cyrus king of Babylon the same king Cyrus made a decree to build this house of God."
God knew Cyrus would be king and His shepherd for a great purpose. It was all part of the ushering in of the time for the Messiah, Christ to come where regenerated gentiles could be kings in Christ in the house of God. The decree was the beginning of this time that would be detailed to Daniel and supported again in Revelation by Christ.
You state, the sun & the moon will not shine for a time;
Jesus is not literal speaking of sun, moon & the stars
Joseph dreams, Genesis 37:9 that the sun & the moon & the stars bow down & paid homage to him
Jacob interprets it, Genesis 37:10-12 representing him the sun, his mother the moon & his brothers the stars.
Rev 21:23 the Light represents the glory of the knowledge of God, that shines in the heart.
there is no more need of the light from mankind, God now speaks to us through His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, in which all things consist & have their being, that He, Christ might have the preeminence above all created things.
Friends, I ask you to consider all these Scriptures in the Light, which the Spirit gives to us in the Face of Jesus Christ.
In love & truth.
For the sake of your immortal soul, whom Jesus gave Himself for, don't continue to deceive yourselfs
In love & truth
Thanks for replying.
I'm glad to hear you're doing fine and welcome back to the site!
We're doing fine as well.
You stated;
These seven weeks can be WEEKS OF DAYS and we know from Bible history that the years in rebuilding the holy city were very much so troublesome times. 62 more years after these seven WEEKS OF DAYS makes 69 weeks. At the end of the 69th week the Messiah came and was cut off mid-week in the 70th week.
I have ALL the 70 weeks as weeks of years, starting and ending on a specific day.
Beginning at "FROM THE GOING FORTH OF THE COMMANDMENT to restore and to build Jerusalem.
and ending at "unto the Messiah the Prince/King when Jesus "PRESENTED HIMSELF" as king
Full filing Zachariah 9:9
and a portion of Genesis 49:9-11.
"Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up?
The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; AND UNTO HIM SHALL THE GATHERING OF THE PEOPLE BE.
BINDING HIS FOAL UNTO THE VINE, AND HIS ASS'S COLT unto the choice vine;..
Daniel 9:26 says AND AFTER THREESCORE AND TWO WEEKS SHALL MESSIAH BE CUT OFF.
( It doesn't say in the middle of the 70th week. )
Daniel 9:27 Say the prince that SHALL COME he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:
That is the beginning of the 70th week.
( the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, )
That's yet future.
God bless you brother.
These verses also show the limit of a woman in regard to expression in worship settings since they are not to have authority over a man ( 1 Timothy 2:12). This fairly well mirrors the Old Testament where at least in the Book of Judges and a few other instances there were women acting as a Prophetess. There were no female priests at least with Judaism; these occurred with pagan rights quite often; however. It will be noted the consistency in messages at that time with God's overall plan in other texts as well as overall history. Judges 4:9 is an interesting passage with Deborah predicting victory in Sisera at the hands of a woman; perhaps that is one reason God used her. It is also said the lack of visions and available male prophets at the time may have necessitated God using her in this occasion.
There are cases where women would praise God in a prophetic manner; in Exodus 15 Moses started off with a victory song; and Miriam joined in later in verses 20-21. This shows they were in one accord.
If we survey what are the fruits or results of women who take on roles forbidden in scripture usually we see spurious doctrine manifest. 1 Samuel 15:23 reminds us that rebellion is as witchcraft. We see quite often the other half of the problem; namely men that are unwilling to take on the role as head of the household and the responsibilities in worship services. Thus we have a major part of the breakdown of society.
Women also need to fully take on teaching their children; guiding younger women as well as evangelizing to women in this generation; albeit perhaps leaving some more dangerous assignments to men. A woman with more intellegence can help men behind the scenes.
This scripture is the beginning of how some Amillennialism thinking Christians meditate on where we might be in time.
"Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times." Daniel 9:25 KJV
It was a very important time in Jewish history as they were carried into Babylon and by God's great Providence set free by Cyrus the King. His decree was momentous. By interpreting the seven weeks separate from the three score and two weeks as it is written it is a special period of time standing alone. These seven weeks can be weeks of days and we know from Bible history that the years in rebuilding the holy city were very much so troublesome times. 62 more years after these seven weeks of days makes 69 weeks. At the end of the 69th week the Messiah came and was cut off mid-week in the 70th week. The transgression being full in the 70th week. Approximately 3-1/2 weeks (37 years?) later in the spring was the beginning of destruction of the holy city which ended in the fall.
Part of this great mystery involves Herod the Great and he wanting to protect his kingdom and power and the spirit that enabled him was an antichrist spirit.
There are many scriptures that can point to this viewpoint with keeping all of the Gospel teachings without violence.
Thank you for the discussion!
You said "On the contrary at the 2nd coming huge catastrophes will be occurring on earth, millions will be killed by the antichrist, people will be scared to death for the things to come. The whole polital/economial system will collapse (the Babylon)"
(Lu. 21:25-26) You left out the next two verses ( Luke. 21:27-28) v27 "And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory" ( Mt. 24:30) "the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory" He comes here to (gather together) His elect ( Mt. 24:31) He is not riding a white horse to the earth here but we meet Him in the air, in the clouds the rapture ( 1 Thess. 4:15-17) The white horse is ( Rev. 19:11-16) TO THE EARTH!
This version in Luke is the same as ( Mt. 24:29-31) v29 "Immediately after the tribulation" This is the only verse in the Bible that tells us the Son of man (Jesus Christ) comes in the clouds AFTER the tribulation period but pre-tribulation rapture believers say this is the return on a white horse, it is not.
( 1 Thess. 4:15-17)
1) v16 The sound of a trumpet
2) v17 caught up (together) with them
3) v17 The Lord comes in the clouds
( Mt. 24:29-31)
1) v31 a sound of a (trumpet)
2) v31 they shall (gather together) His elect
3) v30 they shall see the (Son of man coming in the clouds)
( Rev. 19:11-16) v11 He is called Faithful and True. ( Mt. 24:30) He is called the Son of man
( Rev. 19:14) The armies which were in heaven follow Him from heaven to the earth on white horses ( Mt. 24:31) He comes in the clouds to gather together His elect.
These verses are showing us the #1 pre-tribulation rapture verse is in perfect alignment with ( Mt. 24:29-31) Immediately AFTER the tribulation.
We have to let the Scriptures speak for themselves Giannis.
Blessings to you, and all who seek Truth.
Matt 24:3 " the disciples asks, what shall be the sign of Thy coming & the end of the world?
Matt 24 Jesus explains to His disciples the signs of His coming
Jesus is speaking to His disciples who are with Him in present tense. Verily I say unto you!
Matt 24:4 & said unto them, let no man deceive you Matt 24:15 when ye shall see the abomination of desolation
Matt 24:23 then if any man say unto you, lo here is Christ. Matt 24:25 Behold I have told you Matt 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you. Matt 24:33 when ye see all these things Matt 24:44 therefore be ye also ready
Matt 24:34,35
Verily I say unto you, this generation shall not pass away till all this things be fulfilled, Heaven & earth shall pass away but My word shall not pass away, This was the generation 2000 yrs ago that shall not pass away till all these things be fulfilled.
Matt 16:28 Mark 9:1 standing there with Him then, saw the Kingdom come in Power
Friends, Christ word out of His own mouth, which shall not pass away refutes all these words & beliefs concerning His 2nd Coming.
You said of (Lu. 21:34-36) "How is it possible that Jesus warns us not to be in a state of pleasure and caring of this life when in the great tribulation christians will suffer, persecuted and get killed for their faith in God". I would have to disagree with your interpretation of that verse Giannis. Jesus is warning us ((not to become apart of)) that evil world during that time period. ( 1 Jn. 2:15-17) v36 "WATCH"
(Lu. 21:34-36) v35 "For as a (snare) shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth" The word (snare) is #3803; it means a trap (as fastened by a noose or notch) a trick or statagem. The word [statagem] means (A scheme or maneuver designed to achieve an objective, as in surprising an enemy or deceving someone)
It sounds like there will be great deception, unseen tricks, or traps set by the evil during this time period.
You said "Please pay attention to v36, that ye may be accounted worthly to escape all these things that shall come to pass"
you left out the rest of the verse, it says "and to stand before the Son of man"
The Son of man comes in the clouds to gather together His elect in ( Mt. 24:29-31) IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION.
What will be escaped will be the wrath of God.
see p2
"And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
The disciples asked Jesus 3 questions and he answered them in verse 15.
Verses 4-14 would be non signs of the end of the world. He says that in verse 6. "And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet."
And then he goes on with the beginning of these sorrows as mentioned in Matthew 24:8 until he gets to verses 14 and15.
Vs 14. "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Vs 15. "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by "DANIEL THE PROPHET, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
WHOSO READETH, LET HIM UNDERSTAND!!:
Jesus is diverting them back to Daniel 9:27 as the key to end time prophecy. The 70th week of Daniel.
"And he/Antichrist shall confirm the covenant with many FOR ONE WEEK: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,)
The Great tribulation begins in the middle of the 70th week with Jesus describing Daniels prophecy as the key and details this event in Matthew 24:16-21.
Daniel 12:9-11 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed TILL THE TIME OF THE END.
Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the ABOMINATION THAT MAKETH DESOLATE set up, there shall be a (thousand two hundred and ninety days). 3.5 years!
Also see Revelation 12:14.
( time, and times, and half a time,)
Another way of saying 3.5 years!
The 70th week of Daniel is future.
God bless.
Israel is God's elect and so is the Church both for different purposes.
If you are saying God is not through with Israel I also hold that view.
Here's more direct set of scriptures for the "Nation" of Israel.
Ezekiel 36:22-38.
Therefore say unto the "HOUSE" of Israel,
THUS SAITH THE LORD GOD; I DO NOT THIS FOR YOUR SAKES, O HOUSE OF ISRAEL BUT FOR MINE HOLY NAME'S SAKE, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.
AND I WILL SANCTIFY MY GREAT NAME, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; AND THE HEATHEN SHALL KNOW THAT I AM THE LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I SHALL BE SANCTIFIED IN YOU BEFORE THEIR EYES.
( God will restore the Nation Israel for his Name sake )
Vs 36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, AND GATHER YOU OUT OF ALL COUNTRIES, and will bring you into your own land.
( God is going to gather them of ALL Countries!)
There has never been a gathering like this and this certainly not the Church! The Church never possessed a Land.
Vs 36:26-28. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
AND YE SHALL DWELL IN THE LAND THAT I GAVE TO YOUR FATHERS; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
There's no way to spiritualize this as to say this is the Church and God is going to rule in our hearts.
And the Spirit remains absent in them today so it didn't happen at the cross.
Again! Here's Paul pointed forward looking for salvation for his Kinsman of the flesh in Romans 11:1
"I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Conclusion;
Romans 11:25-27.
This is after the cross!
More to come at a later date
God bless.
Remember: the disciples questioned two things with JESUS: Matt. 24:3
1 - what shall be the SIGN of thy coming?
2 - and of the END of the world?
We cannot forget the prophetic message, and the warnings of our Lord JESUS, about the two above signs, as follow: Matt.24:4-8
1- Pre-tribulation Period - Beginning of sorrows
(My view: We are already living/ we already entered in this period. I'm awaked.
JESUS listed seven terrible events as the beginning of sorrows, and they are the signs of the END of the world, and JESUS's coming:What signs?
1- Appearance and manifestation of false Christs/false messiah ( John 5:43-47 combined with Revelation 13:11-a false lamb);
2- Wars and rumours of war ; (fulfilling LITERALLY);
3- nation shall rise against nation ; (in process / processing)
4- and kingdom against kingdom; (Kingdom of GOD X Kingdom of Devil - Rev.11:15 and 12:7-12- Take a look.) ;
5- famines ; (in process / it's processing)
6- pestilences ; (more recent - Coronavirus-COVID 19. Global cases
Updated Jul 18. confirmed 767,972,197 - deaths 6,950,642)
and
7- earthquakes in divers places. (more recent - Turkey)
JESUS said: 8-all these are the beginning of sorrows.
There will not be any gap between the period of sorrows(Pre-Tribulation)and the beginning of Tribulation, this will be sequential:
2 -THE BEGINNING OF THE TRIBULATION PERIOD
JESUS said: Matt.24:9-16
9 Then shall they(they whom?)deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise(false preachers of GOD's Word (sects, false movements gospel, dead churches-Rev.3:1,etc.)and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound(consequence of the apostate environment),the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall ENDURE unto the END,the same shall be saved
But the worst comes
Luke 21:34-36,
"34And take heed to yourselves (believers), lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
35For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
36Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."
A few points on the above.
1. How is it possible that Jesus warns us not be in a state of pleasure and carings of this life when in the great tribulation christians will suffer, persecuted and get killed for their faith in God? How is it possible to be involved in matters of this life when christians will not accept the beast's mark and eventually won't be able even to survive in such conditions?
2. Please pay attention to verse 36, "... that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass..."
3. I have read in older posts that God will preserve us like He did with Hebrews in Egypt. But at that time they were all concetrated at a place, the Land of Goshen. In the future we will be dispersed throughout the whole earth, it is a different thing altogether.
To me it is clear that the time when Jesus comes to take His Bribe is at a different time from His 2nd coming on earth. The condition of the world in those two cases will be completely different.
At the rapture the world is the ususal normal world. People will be involved with their everyday life, not fearing for what comes next, unprepared. Why? Because life will be as usual. Matthew 24:36-40.
On the contrary at the 2nd coming huge catastrophies will be occuring on earth, millions will be killed by the antichrist, people will be scared to death for the things to come. The whole polital/economical system will collapse(the Babylon), Luke 21:25-26 and events on Revelation
2 different conditions on earth, 2 diferent events.
GBU
A commenter quoted Matthew 23:37-39, I pointed out vs.39 dispelled any inference it was
everlasting or endless.
Thanks!
You asked: Do Believers go through great tribulation?
Yes, they do. Get ready, it will be the last seven years of the Devil's world. It is very important to meditate on our last days of existence in this current system of this devilish world, not because we are going to die, quite the contrary, it is because we will live, we will be alive in these last seven years of the Devil's world, this last period of time of the current world are approaching.
The journey of all believers, prepared or no, for the last seven years, and for the last spiritual sufferings of terrestrial life, it will be similar to the departure of the Hebrew people from Egypt. By the way, there will be two BEASTS reigning in the Earth, one Gentile Beast and another Jewish, that is a false lamb, a false messiah, AN IMPOSTOR, as prophesied JESUS- John 5:43-47 combined with Revelation 13:11KJV. The 1st 42 months of the last seven years, it will be ruled by the FIRST Beast enthroned in Jerusalem by the false messiah as is written in Rev.13:2 and 5-KJV. The 2nd Beast -the false messiah-will rule the 2nd half of the last seven years. Get ready.
Daniel in his prophecy, warned, saying: Daniel 12:11-12KJV
11"From the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away (yes, it shall be taken away because there was a certain period of time to cease the sacrifice or be taken out of the way, the restraining, by the way, the sacrifice of JESUS have lasted until this current time or around 720.000 days, and now will cease) and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. JESUS warned us: Matthew 24:15-"When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)if not understand, it may complicate, it is what I think), after all it will be 1290 very tense days.
12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days
The verses you stated from Jeremiah are also used by Paul in Hebrews 9:8-12. Paul considers this new covenant to Israel that Jeremiah is taking about is the New Testament that God introduced firstly to Hebrews and then to the rest of the world. But Jews didn't receive Jesus, and consequently God, so their House was left abandoned by God. Until when? Until they repend for crucifying Jesus and ask for Him. When is this going to occur? At the very end. Paul in Rom 11:25-27 says that they will be saved after the fullness of the nations will come in (the salvation).
So who are the elect now? Romans 8:30-32,
"30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of GOD'S ELECT? It is God that justifieth."
Please pay attention to the above verse 33.
God's intention when creating the Hebrew nation through Abraham was not to have a superior race than the rest who will conquer the world. His aim is to create a nation which will preserve the faith to the true God, through which at the proper time the Savior would erect to sacrifice Himself for the salvation of all people. In God's mind was the whole mankind not just a race.
So He established the church on Pentecost
Ephessians 2:14-17,
"14For he is our peace, who hath made both (Jews and gentiles) one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
GBU"
by sending His Son. Jews (true ones, there are wolves in sheep clothing in ALL beliefs out there), are very true to their beliefs so when God does get ahold of them causing them to finally believe & understand His word, watch out cuz they are mighty powerful therefore I can see now why God chose them first.! So many others, from my experience, have fallen away & come back & away & back, makes me dizzy. Jews on the other hand; they're going to feel so guilty for not believing sooner that (I feel) will be more faithful after their repentance.! When God gets ahold of you & you no longer allow satan to corrupt you, your stuck & stuck good & THEN (as Sound of Freedom said) "when you hear Him speak, DO NOT HESITATE". Till then many will fall away Cuz they don't realize being in a garage doesn't make them a car.! We have to read, study & learn His word DAILY, standing up for His truth not allowing the evil world to corrupt us as well.!
The great tribulation we see in Matt. 24:21 and Rev. 7:14 is caused by the beast that arises that many call the antichrist, Rev. 13. The events we see happen in Matt. 24:29 is just before Jesus's second coming. These are signs, we are not told how long the sun and moon will be dark but this is not permanent they will shine again during the millennium.
When Jesus returns there is the first resurrection, the battle of Armageddon, then the beast and false prophet are thrown into the lake of fire and Satan is locked up in the bottomless pit. Then Jesus will set up His kingdom and the 1000 years start, and Jesus and those in the first resurrection will reign over the earth for these 1000 years.
After the 1000 years, Satan will be let out of the pit, then the last battle, this when Satan is cast into the lake of fire. Then the white throne will come down from heaven and judgment is given to the rest of the dead, then God creates a new heaven and new earth. This is when there will not be a sun or moon to light the earth because God and the Lamb will be the light.
Bible study is a wonderful lifetime journey in the word of God. When we pick up God's word, we should pray for the Holy Spirit to shine a light that lights up our understanding. Will it happen every time and will we understand all? No, but we will understand all we need and more. Patience is the key, patience is a gift from God, it is a quality or virtue of forbearance or endurance and with it, we can endure anything we face because it is God's timing, not ours. "let us run with patience the race that is set before us".
God bless,
RLW
In ( Mt. 24:21-22) v21 "For then shall be great tribulation"
v22 Tells us "for the (elect's) sake those days shall be shortened"
The word (elect's) is #1588; it means select, by implying favorite, chosen, to select, make choice, choose (out) chosen.
God's elect are His favorite, His chosen ones in whom He will choose (out) ( Mt. 24:40-42) True Believers.
In ( Mt. 24:29-31) v29 "Immediately AFTER the tribulation"
v30 "and they shall see the Son of man (Jesus Christ) coming (in the clouds) of heaven with power and great glory"
v31 "and they shall gather together his elect"
AFTER the tribulation is when the (elect) are gathered together.
In ( Rev. 7:9) "After this I beheld, and, lo, ((a great multitude, which no man could number)), of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands".
( Rev. 7:14-17) v14 Tells us "These are they which ((came out of great tribulation)), and have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb"
A great multitude that no man could number ((came out of great tribulation)), the Son of man (Jesus Christ) comes in the clouds to gather together His elect (Immediately AFTER the tribulation)
v17 Tells us "For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall ((feed them)), and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes"
When will the Lamb feed them?
The marriage supper of the Lamb is when those who came out of great tribulation will be fed in ( Rev. 19:7-9)
A great multitude that no man could number comes out of great tribulation.
When God pours out His wrath on the earth no man will be able to enter into the temple till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled, ( Rev. 15:7-8)
All seven vials full of the wrath of God will be poured out on the earth and no man will be able to enter into the temple.
Truth matters!
Greetings in Christ JESUS
Thank you for your reply.
See, it is very important to meditate on our last days of existence in this current system of the current world, not because we are going to die, quite the contrary, it is because we will live, we will be alive in these last seven years of the Devil's world, this last period of time of the current world are approaching, and the journey of all believers, prepared or no, for the last days and for the last spiritual sufferings of terrestrial life, it will be similar to the departure of the Hebrew people from Egypt, on the one hand, in the first moments of exit from Egypt, we will se GOD fighting/ battling against the Enemy through His plagues and severe punishments, there will be only and only severe chastiments, on the other hand, GOD protecting His people to escape the persecution and violence of the evil ones, so will the last seven years of this present world's existence. Indeed it will be wrath against wrath, the spiritual environment will be one of fierce spiritual warfare - Revelation 11:18. Take a look. It all starts now with GOD's declaration of WAR against the Devil's world; What statement? It's in Revelation 11:15KJV - "The kingdoms of THIS WORLD are become the Lord's and of His Christ (not yet, of course), and He will reign forever. For this cause, the NATIONS will be wrathed- Revelation 11:18, but GOD will wrath also, well, if GOD is for us, who can be against us?
By the way, Michael will be with us in the WAR on this last journey- Daniel 12:1-3 combined with 1 Thessalonians 4:16 and Revelation 12:7 to 13. Take a look.
GET READY
You know: The WAR shall be/is against three unclean spirits like frogs- Revelation 16:13-15. Why frogs?
GET READY
We are still following Christ, he is the Church ?,
women preaching in churches does that go against 34 & 35 ? , & take away from the meaning of Revelations 22:18 & 22:19 ?
Thanks
Your answer is in your post in v. 39 ..."for I say unto you, you will not see me henceforth, till you shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord."...You can see it's not implied forever more, because they will see him when he returns, and not just the southern kingdom, (house of Judah), but also the northern kingdom (house of Israel), and He will covenant with them, and they with Him.
Albeit, the conditions will be much different as declared by Jeremiah:
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
35 Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37 Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.
and Paul in writing Hebrews, (again to the Israelites):