We as a nation can also look back further in time and see how God dealt with the other nations, especially Israel and consider how God was in their midst as he led them and blessed them "but" not being IN them as the Holyspirit dwells in the believers today to guide our hearts to bare fruit.
We're connected to the true/genuine vine and God is the husbandman causing us to bare fruit.
God gave Israel rest from their enemies when they walked in his statutes.
When they didn't, he punished them.
God wouldn't let Israel profane his Holy name,
All nations and all Christians individually that claims out loud to be a Godly nation or person should consider this.
I fear the Christian that takes such statements literally and as God-breathed as words from the Lord Himself, something for other Christians to indeed act on, rather than as God-breathed accuracy of a person's feelings as they experience the tough and troubling emotions that occurred with the brutalization of their country.
I see absolutely nothing good about this, and the justifications I see from other comments are abhorrent to me.
Is this really the God-breathed word I'm supposed to follow? Is this supposed to be relevant to the future of Christianity, completely unchanged and unadapted for future situations? Should one take this "as a warning" for what happens when you disobey God? Is this supposed to instill a reflection of His love?
Or, should I accept this as a method used at the time, and it's God-breathed nature is in the fact someone factually recorded this historical occurrence?
I am much more willing to accept the latter than try to justify genocide as "ordained by God" in any way, shape, or form. That can send us living today down an exceptionally slippery slope to recreate something as horrendous as the Holocaust while saying, "It's all the Lord's Will."
We have to read the rest of Peter's commentary regarding Psalm 16 and David's words. David was talking about Christ and Christ's payment for the sins of His Elect in descending into "hades" (hell or the grave) not David himself. This is not talking about David or OT Believers going to a place called "hades" to await the efficacy of Christ's Atonement nor is Ephesians 4:8-10.
Acts 2:29-36 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Until I make thy foes thy footstool.Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
So, again, neither of these passages is teaching what you suggest about OT Believers.
And incidentally, it is also a commentary on the Gospel that "was preached to them, as well as onto us" Heb 4.
Thank You for developing this site. I give Thanks to Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, who saved a WRETCH like me. And for this site in which we can have fellowship one with another ! I would like to share with my brothers and sisters in Christ a simple Acronym that I use when prepare my lesson plans for teaching Wednesday Night Bible Study and Adult Sunday School, and I also use it for my daily bible studies. It is R.S.M. R=Read God's Word S=Study God's Word and M=Meditate on God's Word. I also share this with all of my brothers and sisters in Christ. I pray that this information will be helpful to all and that Our Father provide you all with the Comfort and Peace that only He can Provide.
Just to clarify Jema. 'Limbo' & 'purgatory' do not mean the same - if that was in your mind. I apologize if you were thinking of some other RC doctrine that I don't know of & therefore would welcome enlightening so that I might consider my error.
However, I can see how you might understand 'being in limbo' as 'souls waiting for Heaven', and 'purgatory' which involves a time of spiritual cleansing so that the soul can be acceptable to God & fit to enter Heaven, as very similar. Purgatory is an RC teaching based on the Apocryphal writings & is not Scriptural Truth. Anyway, I've written to David0921 citing Scriptures that reveal the underworld & those righteous ones that awaited release & attained it after Christ's Redemptive Work was completed.
Thank you brother Giannis for adding your further thoughts to the meaning intended in Hebrews 4:2.
To the puzzle as to "why the KJV translators preferred gospel preached", my suspicion is that they, as you've pointed out, understood that the Gospel was indeed the 'good news'. But when we (post-Cross) had the Gospel preached to us, it clearly was the Good News of Christ's redemptive Work. But the Gospel preached unto them was also wonderful news, but to them it was the news of their future rest (first temporarily in Canaan, & then with the Lord forever).
So why did that Gospel not profit them? The verse states that it was because of a lack of faith. So, though the word 'Gospel' (good news) might be common in both thoughts, also the word 'Faith' is common as well; the former that they must have faith in what God had promised them in assuring them of a future Rest - and for us, that we must have faith in what God has promised us in Christ Jesus for salvation & rest.
The problem that arises when using the word 'Gospel' in this verse, is that if one believes that OT Israel also received the same Gospel as we have been given, then of course, they too must get saved as we do. But I simply do not see such a promise & provision given to them, and I don't think the KJV translators anticipated that confusion could arise later by their using the word 'Gospel', which was an apt word, though maybe perplexing to some today.
As well, Acts 2:25-27 (Peter's message at Pentecost), clearly referred to David's Psalm 16:10, when David believed that his soul would not remain forever in hell (sheol; the Hebrew equivalent of Hades in the NT). David, as righteous & accepted as he was before God, would also go to the underworld to await deliverance.
When Peter referred this Psalm to Christ, indeed it was true, for at His Death, Christ did descend into Hades ("the lower parts of the Earth") for a time, to lead "captivity captive and gave gifts unto men" ( Ephesians 4:8-10). Jesus not only released the shackles of sin & death over those held in that interim/transitional place, but also took those in such captivity & made them captive to Himself.
His Sacrifice not only made the full sin payment for them (unlike the sacrifices of old), but also secured their position now IN Christ before the God & Father whom they served under the Law & sacrificial orders. That Law now perfectly fulfilled in Jesus & abrogated, ushered in the New Covenant which is in His Blood alone. The OT faithful had to wait for Calvary - there could be no salvation for them without it, no matter how well they stood before God behind their offerings.
David0921, Hades was a very real place for the OT faithful, & it could only take Jesus' Sacrifice & Victory over death & hades, to release them forever (what they longed for - to find that perfect REST).
May I ask you a question ? What message are you spreading far and wide ? Christ crucified and the Good News of the Kingdom of God ? Or angel numbers ? that are not Biblical .
Hi David0921. Just to touch on some of the points in your recent several comments.
Referring to Romans 3: Yes, it is a chapter of mankind's sinful condition, hence it was not written TO ALL mankind, but ABOUT ALL mankind. So, if all mankind lies in sin, how does God seek to remedy that disease? We know that it can only be through Christ, but where we differ is that you believe that Christ's Blood availed for those OT sinners while they were still alive. My belief: that Christ's Blood availed for them & us, ONLY after the payment for sin was completed.
Hades. 1 Corinthians 15:55 only speaks about 'death & the grave'. Looking at the Greek, for both those words, 'thanatos' is given & not Hades. So 'death & the grave' are understood as only that: 'death as confined to the grave'; no Hades here, a word which refers to an actual hell of spiritual confinement.
Then to the passages I shared, to which you wrote that 'none of them support OT believers going to a place called Hades at death'. For sure, most of those references just spoke about a very real place called Hades, to which I was drawing your attention to the fact that there is a name Hades. But when Jesus spoke of Abraham & Lazarus also being there, this is where "we (must) compare scripture with scripture using the principles that God lays down in His Word" (your quote). If we then disregard Luke 16:19-31 in its entirety, then we do great disservice to God's Word & our understanding of (for example, Hades) then becomes skewed. Onto Page 2.
Please don't be ashamed to ask for help , ask your family , ask your church , even try social services or a charity , there are many people who will help you out but you have to let them know that you need help . In times past , when I have needed help and prayed to God for it , He hasn't intervened in an obviously miraculous way , He has gently shown me what I need to do , where I need to go , who I need to talk to . Listen for that still small voice and the peace that passes all understanding . Pray for guidance and be bold , let Him guide you and trust in Him to point you in the right direction . Don't waver in your faith .
Remebering what JESUS said: Matthew 24:14 - And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the END come. (The END is now, even now, from now on, in the turn from the sixth to the seventh Day. The Dispensation of Grace is finished in LITERAL fulfillment of the words of our Lord JESUS Christ. Unfortunately, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. JESUS said: The lord shall come in a Day when the servant looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, and shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites".
I took the time to check out the verses that you cite in reference to "Hades" (G86). In fact I looked at every passage where the Greek "hades" is used.
The word "hades" is used only 11 times in the Bible. In 10 of those it is translated "hell" in the KJV. And in every one of those 10 passages it is referring to either the unsaved, or Christ Himself as He endured the Wrath of God for the sins of His Elect. None of those passages have anything to do with OT Believers in "limbo" awaiting Salvation because Christ's Atonement has not yet become effective.
The only other passage is 1 Corinthians 15:55 where "hades" is translated "grave" (which actually would be a better translation in the other 10 in my view, but that is beside the point here). In 1 Cor 15:55 the context is the Resurrection of all True Believers when they will receive their Resurrected Spiritual Bodies.
So, Chris, none of these passage support in any way that OT Believes go to a place called "hades" when they die.
I did not respond to your posts to me because I don't think it would be very fruitful.
But to your post to David I will respond on the subject of how you evaluated his heart as being hard. For one, this is not true of David, and secondly, you cannot possibly be a judge as to the secret condition of the heart before God. Even though you and David disagree on some matters does not warrant such a harsh eval of David. Please consider repenting of judging him so.
VIII. About the relationship of 1,2, and 3 John with the rest of the New Testament:
John's letters were the last written in the New Testament. Four of the letters are classified in the Jewish Literature section of the New Testament since John wrote mostly to the believing Jews who were scattered in Asia Minor.
IX. SECTION OUTLINE OF III JOHN:
CHAPTER 1: The Instruction Concerning Genuine Hospitality
That covers 1, 2 & 3 John. I will share the introduction to Jude soon.
So, this movement of Gnosticism is beginning to take several forms. Obviously, Diotrephes thought that he had special knowledge.
But the apostle John and his knowledge was a threat to that, especially since John said if anybody listens to us, they're of God, and if you don't listen to us, you're not of God. That's a pretty strong statement to make!
But here's a man that says that what the apostle John thinks is the truth, is not true. I have special knowledge. There are even churches today that tell their people to stay away from Paul's writings because Paul only had "limited" revelation.
They say that he didn't understand the full truth of God, but now, we have complete revelation that's given to us, a special enlightenment that's given to us that's not in the bible. But it's given to us as we pray and as we seek the Lord.
And they did the same with the apostle John. Now if they rejected the teachings of the apostle Paul and John back then, wouldn't you think that that would happen today? And the answer is yes. Many teachings from the scriptures are rejected!
VII. ABOUT THE THEME AND STYLE OF JOHN'S LETTERS:
John's main theme is the correct doctrine of the humanity of Jesus Christ. The subtheme is the assurance of salvation for genuine believers.
John presents these themes in factual statements rather than generalizations.
I John contains a series of conditional phrases describing the differences between doctrinal truth and error, as well as contrasting a genuine believer with a false one.
There much truth in what you counsel, my thoughts were in the work of regeneration unto perfection, I would say yes to the thief situation, but to the jailer situation, he would have to work out his salvation, now that he 'first believed" Lydia was already a godly person, mayber just needed to hear more perfectly the gospel. I notice in my own journey, that the brighter the path becomes, the more light I received in understanding the darkness of our old Adamic nature. the little foxes spoil the vine. Song of Solomon 2:15
I desire to be submissive, & remain teachable, let take a look at one of your statement of belief.
You spoke to Ronald, & previously stating this many time as I recall
We get our understanding of the Bible from the Bible itself. The Bible alone and its entirety is the Word of God and must be our only Authority.
Ok, this is your faith, not mind, you know where I STAND ON THIS ISSUE, saying that Luke 1:6 they were not blameless. When the Scripture of Truth says plainly "walking in all the commandments & ordinances of the Lord blameless". along with the rest of the Scriptures that I've quoted concerning this, even giving you concordance reference which you use to understand the words of God. David, you don't even believe your own faith & your calling God a liar & you expect me to give heed to counsel such as this?
I could go on refuting you soundly with the Scriptures & sound reasoning, but considering our past conversations, what would be the purpose?
Souls are at stake here, whom Jesus suffer & paid the ultimate price for & God will judge His people Ecclesiastes 5:2,3
David,,,,,,, as Keith Green song says, Your heart is hard (& is hardening ) & your prayers are cold, so where will you go from here?
But they had a problem because there was a man in his town that basically said, "I'm in control of the church." He wanted the preeminence. He wanted first place in the church. He even rejected John's letters.
One of the letters he sent, we do not have. A man named Diotrephes intercepted the letter and took it and wouldn't let the church have it.
And then there were those who were sent out from John who passed through the city to minister, and Diotrephes wouldn't let anybody house them. He said if anybody housed them, they would be kicked out of the church.
And this is why it is believed, according to some historical literature outside of the bible, that Gaius receive his letters, because he was kicked out of the church by this man who was controlling everything. And it was a letter from John to encourage him to keep housing the brethren as they came through. He had tremendous love for the brethren. He had tremendous support for the truth.
But somebody in the church basically was telling him that if you keep housing God's servants, we're going to kick you out. And that's all because this one man wanted control and influence over the church and didn't want any of the ministers from outside. And none of John's teachings were allowed in the church, only Diotrephes' teachings.
2 John was written right after I John. 2 John was written to combat the infiltration of Gnostic teaching into the church.
VI. ABOUT III JOHN:
3 John was written shortly after 2 John. This letter was written to instruct the church about the responsibilities of genuine hospitality.
Now you remember from 2 John, that there was an elect lady in one of the churches. And she, like many, as John is making reference to, in every city there were a few people who housed traveling ministers in their homes.
And they made their base of operation out of the homes that they stayed in. They themselves did not take much money. In fact, there was a rule within the early church that if you were a Jewish Christian called to ministry, you did not take money from the Gentiles, and that you preached the gospel free of charge.
Now this elect lady, she would keep some of these traveling teachers in her home. But John, in making an emphasis (even to us), he said that love and truth go hand in hand. You cannot offer your home out of love in order to support that which is not true.
And we even have that philosophy today, where false teaching is pointed out, but the people, whether they are the congregation or the people sitting under that ministry, they will say they don't do anything about it because "we function in love."
But love and truth are inseparable. If you're compromising truth for the sake of love, that is not the love that the bible is talking about. But we have an opposite. It is interesting that in 3 John we have a man named Gaius, and he also was one that housed traveling ministers. And he wouldn't house people unless they were of the truth.
At the time John was leading the churches in Asia, Gnosticism had two main groups:
1. Docetics taught that Jesus's physical body was not real but only seemed to be physical - known as asceticism from a Greek word that means "to appear."
2. Cerenthians taught that Christ's Spirit descended upon the human Jesus at his baptism but left him just before the crucifixion.
The main teaching about Jesus from this movement denied the Lord's humanity in order to support the Lord's sinless nature.
So, they've got a little mixture there of truth and error. They said the Lord was sinless, but they also held that all physical things were evil, therefore He could not have had a physical body because then He would not be sinless. That's what they believed.
And so, in order to support that, they denied His humanity. But of course, John has gone out of his way to prove both the Lord's deity, that would be the gospel of John, and His humanity, which would be 1 John.
The apostle John wrote 1, 2 and 3 John to the churches of Asia Minor over which John exercised apostolic leadership in his later years.
Most of the recipients of his letters were Jewish believers, but the letters were written for all of the believers in these churches.
III. ABOUT THE DATE AND LOCATION:
I John was written sometime in the late 80's or early 90's A.D.
It is believed that John's letters were written soon after he composed the Gospel of John.
All five of John's letters were written from Ephesus where he spent his elder years leading the churches in Asia Minor.
IV. ABOUT I JOHN:
1 John was written to combat the beginnings of Gnosticism (emphasis on the beginnings). This had just begun.
Gnostic is the Greek word for knowledge. The Gnostics claimed to have special knowledge from God that no one else could know unless they were one of the initiated ones.
And we get that a lot today. People receive "revelation" and "knowledge" supposedly from God, but it's outside of the scriptures. It's not found in the bible.
These false teachers and teachings arose from within the church. Gnostic doctrine was based on dualism which asserted that physical matter was inherently evil, and spirit was good.
Again, most of the introduction to 3 John will be the same as 1 & 2 John. I will share a couple of pieces of information that will be different. I would like to point out that all of John's writings (other than the gospel of John), are in the Jewish Literature section of the New Testament.
It was written to the Jews, Jewish believers. But that didn't eliminate or cause the Gentiles not to be able to receive from the truth from these letters.
I. ABOUT THE AUTHOR:
The apostle John. This is not John the Baptist. This is the apostle, John.
The apostle John had a brother by the name of James. They were known as "The Sons of Zebedee" ( Matthew 10:2-4). Jesus gave them the name "The Sons of Thunder" ( Mark 3:17).
John, Peter, and James were the inner circle of the disciples of Jesus and spent many special times with the Lord ( Matthew 17:1; 26:37).
The apostle John was the only original apostle not to die a martyr's death.
John wrote the Gospel of John, 1, 2, and 3 John, and the Book of Revelation.
And you should keep in mind that even though he wrote the Gospel of John that's at the beginning of the New Testament, the gospel of John was one of the last books written in chronological order. But it was put at the beginning so that all of the gospels could be put together about the earthly ministry of Christ.
We as a nation can also look back further in time and see how God dealt with the other nations, especially Israel and consider how God was in their midst as he led them and blessed them "but" not being IN them as the Holyspirit dwells in the believers today to guide our hearts to bare fruit.
We're connected to the true/genuine vine and God is the husbandman causing us to bare fruit.
God gave Israel rest from their enemies when they walked in his statutes.
When they didn't, he punished them.
God wouldn't let Israel profane his Holy name,
All nations and all Christians individually that claims out loud to be a Godly nation or person should consider this.
Thanks and
God bless.
Is this really the God-breathed word I'm supposed to follow? Is this supposed to be relevant to the future of Christianity, completely unchanged and unadapted for future situations? Should one take this "as a warning" for what happens when you disobey God? Is this supposed to instill a reflection of His love?
Or, should I accept this as a method used at the time, and it's God-breathed nature is in the fact someone factually recorded this historical occurrence?
I am much more willing to accept the latter than try to justify genocide as "ordained by God" in any way, shape, or form. That can send us living today down an exceptionally slippery slope to recreate something as horrendous as the Holocaust while saying, "It's all the Lord's Will."
I pray that all who read this will be encouraged and strengthened by these words, today, tomorrow and every day. In Christ's Name I pray, Amen
We have to read the rest of Peter's commentary regarding Psalm 16 and David's words. David was talking about Christ and Christ's payment for the sins of His Elect in descending into "hades" (hell or the grave) not David himself. This is not talking about David or OT Believers going to a place called "hades" to await the efficacy of Christ's Atonement nor is Ephesians 4:8-10.
Acts 2:29-36 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Until I make thy foes thy footstool.Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
So, again, neither of these passages is teaching what you suggest about OT Believers.
And incidentally, it is also a commentary on the Gospel that "was preached to them, as well as onto us" Heb 4.
" It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and The Bible."
It also seems to me that The Constitution of The United States of America and America itself was formed by God's Word !!!!
Thanks for sharing.
Your Brother in Christ,
Jak
With my Love in Christ Jesus,
Your Brother in Christ,
Jakson
However, I can see how you might understand 'being in limbo' as 'souls waiting for Heaven', and 'purgatory' which involves a time of spiritual cleansing so that the soul can be acceptable to God & fit to enter Heaven, as very similar. Purgatory is an RC teaching based on the Apocryphal writings & is not Scriptural Truth. Anyway, I've written to David0921 citing Scriptures that reveal the underworld & those righteous ones that awaited release & attained it after Christ's Redemptive Work was completed.
To the puzzle as to "why the KJV translators preferred gospel preached", my suspicion is that they, as you've pointed out, understood that the Gospel was indeed the 'good news'. But when we (post-Cross) had the Gospel preached to us, it clearly was the Good News of Christ's redemptive Work. But the Gospel preached unto them was also wonderful news, but to them it was the news of their future rest (first temporarily in Canaan, & then with the Lord forever).
So why did that Gospel not profit them? The verse states that it was because of a lack of faith. So, though the word 'Gospel' (good news) might be common in both thoughts, also the word 'Faith' is common as well; the former that they must have faith in what God had promised them in assuring them of a future Rest - and for us, that we must have faith in what God has promised us in Christ Jesus for salvation & rest.
The problem that arises when using the word 'Gospel' in this verse, is that if one believes that OT Israel also received the same Gospel as we have been given, then of course, they too must get saved as we do. But I simply do not see such a promise & provision given to them, and I don't think the KJV translators anticipated that confusion could arise later by their using the word 'Gospel', which was an apt word, though maybe perplexing to some today.
As well, Acts 2:25-27 (Peter's message at Pentecost), clearly referred to David's Psalm 16:10, when David believed that his soul would not remain forever in hell (sheol; the Hebrew equivalent of Hades in the NT). David, as righteous & accepted as he was before God, would also go to the underworld to await deliverance.
When Peter referred this Psalm to Christ, indeed it was true, for at His Death, Christ did descend into Hades ("the lower parts of the Earth") for a time, to lead "captivity captive and gave gifts unto men" ( Ephesians 4:8-10). Jesus not only released the shackles of sin & death over those held in that interim/transitional place, but also took those in such captivity & made them captive to Himself.
His Sacrifice not only made the full sin payment for them (unlike the sacrifices of old), but also secured their position now IN Christ before the God & Father whom they served under the Law & sacrificial orders. That Law now perfectly fulfilled in Jesus & abrogated, ushered in the New Covenant which is in His Blood alone. The OT faithful had to wait for Calvary - there could be no salvation for them without it, no matter how well they stood before God behind their offerings.
David0921, Hades was a very real place for the OT faithful, & it could only take Jesus' Sacrifice & Victory over death & hades, to release them forever (what they longed for - to find that perfect REST).
Hi David0921. Just to touch on some of the points in your recent several comments.
Referring to Romans 3: Yes, it is a chapter of mankind's sinful condition, hence it was not written TO ALL mankind, but ABOUT ALL mankind. So, if all mankind lies in sin, how does God seek to remedy that disease? We know that it can only be through Christ, but where we differ is that you believe that Christ's Blood availed for those OT sinners while they were still alive. My belief: that Christ's Blood availed for them & us, ONLY after the payment for sin was completed.
Hades. 1 Corinthians 15:55 only speaks about 'death & the grave'. Looking at the Greek, for both those words, 'thanatos' is given & not Hades. So 'death & the grave' are understood as only that: 'death as confined to the grave'; no Hades here, a word which refers to an actual hell of spiritual confinement.
Then to the passages I shared, to which you wrote that 'none of them support OT believers going to a place called Hades at death'. For sure, most of those references just spoke about a very real place called Hades, to which I was drawing your attention to the fact that there is a name Hades. But when Jesus spoke of Abraham & Lazarus also being there, this is where "we (must) compare scripture with scripture using the principles that God lays down in His Word" (your quote). If we then disregard Luke 16:19-31 in its entirety, then we do great disservice to God's Word & our understanding of (for example, Hades) then becomes skewed. Onto Page 2.
I took the time to check out the verses that you cite in reference to "Hades" (G86). In fact I looked at every passage where the Greek "hades" is used.
The word "hades" is used only 11 times in the Bible. In 10 of those it is translated "hell" in the KJV. And in every one of those 10 passages it is referring to either the unsaved, or Christ Himself as He endured the Wrath of God for the sins of His Elect. None of those passages have anything to do with OT Believers in "limbo" awaiting Salvation because Christ's Atonement has not yet become effective.
The only other passage is 1 Corinthians 15:55 where "hades" is translated "grave" (which actually would be a better translation in the other 10 in my view, but that is beside the point here). In 1 Cor 15:55 the context is the Resurrection of all True Believers when they will receive their Resurrected Spiritual Bodies.
So, Chris, none of these passage support in any way that OT Believes go to a place called "hades" when they die.
I did not respond to your posts to me because I don't think it would be very fruitful.
But to your post to David I will respond on the subject of how you evaluated his heart as being hard. For one, this is not true of David, and secondly, you cannot possibly be a judge as to the secret condition of the heart before God. Even though you and David disagree on some matters does not warrant such a harsh eval of David. Please consider repenting of judging him so.
The NIV also uses the term gospel in Heb. 4:2.
VIII. About the relationship of 1,2, and 3 John with the rest of the New Testament:
John's letters were the last written in the New Testament. Four of the letters are classified in the Jewish Literature section of the New Testament since John wrote mostly to the believing Jews who were scattered in Asia Minor.
IX. SECTION OUTLINE OF III JOHN:
CHAPTER 1: The Instruction Concerning Genuine Hospitality
That covers 1, 2 & 3 John. I will share the introduction to Jude soon.
God Bless!!!
So, this movement of Gnosticism is beginning to take several forms. Obviously, Diotrephes thought that he had special knowledge.
But the apostle John and his knowledge was a threat to that, especially since John said if anybody listens to us, they're of God, and if you don't listen to us, you're not of God. That's a pretty strong statement to make!
But here's a man that says that what the apostle John thinks is the truth, is not true. I have special knowledge. There are even churches today that tell their people to stay away from Paul's writings because Paul only had "limited" revelation.
They say that he didn't understand the full truth of God, but now, we have complete revelation that's given to us, a special enlightenment that's given to us that's not in the bible. But it's given to us as we pray and as we seek the Lord.
And they did the same with the apostle John. Now if they rejected the teachings of the apostle Paul and John back then, wouldn't you think that that would happen today? And the answer is yes. Many teachings from the scriptures are rejected!
VII. ABOUT THE THEME AND STYLE OF JOHN'S LETTERS:
John's main theme is the correct doctrine of the humanity of Jesus Christ. The subtheme is the assurance of salvation for genuine believers.
John presents these themes in factual statements rather than generalizations.
I John contains a series of conditional phrases describing the differences between doctrinal truth and error, as well as contrasting a genuine believer with a false one.
There much truth in what you counsel, my thoughts were in the work of regeneration unto perfection, I would say yes to the thief situation, but to the jailer situation, he would have to work out his salvation, now that he 'first believed" Lydia was already a godly person, mayber just needed to hear more perfectly the gospel. I notice in my own journey, that the brighter the path becomes, the more light I received in understanding the darkness of our old Adamic nature. the little foxes spoil the vine. Song of Solomon 2:15
Philippians 3:15,16 here in this life
Thank you
I desire to be submissive, & remain teachable, let take a look at one of your statement of belief.
You spoke to Ronald, & previously stating this many time as I recall
We get our understanding of the Bible from the Bible itself. The Bible alone and its entirety is the Word of God and must be our only Authority.
Ok, this is your faith, not mind, you know where I STAND ON THIS ISSUE, saying that Luke 1:6 they were not blameless. When the Scripture of Truth says plainly "walking in all the commandments & ordinances of the Lord blameless". along with the rest of the Scriptures that I've quoted concerning this, even giving you concordance reference which you use to understand the words of God. David, you don't even believe your own faith & your calling God a liar & you expect me to give heed to counsel such as this?
I could go on refuting you soundly with the Scriptures & sound reasoning, but considering our past conversations, what would be the purpose?
Souls are at stake here, whom Jesus suffer & paid the ultimate price for & God will judge His people Ecclesiastes 5:2,3
David,,,,,,, as Keith Green song says, Your heart is hard (& is hardening ) & your prayers are cold, so where will you go from here?
In love & truth, your Friend
Frankie J
But they had a problem because there was a man in his town that basically said, "I'm in control of the church." He wanted the preeminence. He wanted first place in the church. He even rejected John's letters.
One of the letters he sent, we do not have. A man named Diotrephes intercepted the letter and took it and wouldn't let the church have it.
And then there were those who were sent out from John who passed through the city to minister, and Diotrephes wouldn't let anybody house them. He said if anybody housed them, they would be kicked out of the church.
And this is why it is believed, according to some historical literature outside of the bible, that Gaius receive his letters, because he was kicked out of the church by this man who was controlling everything. And it was a letter from John to encourage him to keep housing the brethren as they came through. He had tremendous love for the brethren. He had tremendous support for the truth.
But somebody in the church basically was telling him that if you keep housing God's servants, we're going to kick you out. And that's all because this one man wanted control and influence over the church and didn't want any of the ministers from outside. And none of John's teachings were allowed in the church, only Diotrephes' teachings.
V. ABOUT II JOHN:
2 John was written right after I John. 2 John was written to combat the infiltration of Gnostic teaching into the church.
VI. ABOUT III JOHN:
3 John was written shortly after 2 John. This letter was written to instruct the church about the responsibilities of genuine hospitality.
Now you remember from 2 John, that there was an elect lady in one of the churches. And she, like many, as John is making reference to, in every city there were a few people who housed traveling ministers in their homes.
And they made their base of operation out of the homes that they stayed in. They themselves did not take much money. In fact, there was a rule within the early church that if you were a Jewish Christian called to ministry, you did not take money from the Gentiles, and that you preached the gospel free of charge.
Now this elect lady, she would keep some of these traveling teachers in her home. But John, in making an emphasis (even to us), he said that love and truth go hand in hand. You cannot offer your home out of love in order to support that which is not true.
And we even have that philosophy today, where false teaching is pointed out, but the people, whether they are the congregation or the people sitting under that ministry, they will say they don't do anything about it because "we function in love."
But love and truth are inseparable. If you're compromising truth for the sake of love, that is not the love that the bible is talking about. But we have an opposite. It is interesting that in 3 John we have a man named Gaius, and he also was one that housed traveling ministers. And he wouldn't house people unless they were of the truth.
At the time John was leading the churches in Asia, Gnosticism had two main groups:
1. Docetics taught that Jesus's physical body was not real but only seemed to be physical - known as asceticism from a Greek word that means "to appear."
2. Cerenthians taught that Christ's Spirit descended upon the human Jesus at his baptism but left him just before the crucifixion.
The main teaching about Jesus from this movement denied the Lord's humanity in order to support the Lord's sinless nature.
So, they've got a little mixture there of truth and error. They said the Lord was sinless, but they also held that all physical things were evil, therefore He could not have had a physical body because then He would not be sinless. That's what they believed.
And so, in order to support that, they denied His humanity. But of course, John has gone out of his way to prove both the Lord's deity, that would be the gospel of John, and His humanity, which would be 1 John.
II. ABOUT THE RECIPIENTS:
The apostle John wrote 1, 2 and 3 John to the churches of Asia Minor over which John exercised apostolic leadership in his later years.
Most of the recipients of his letters were Jewish believers, but the letters were written for all of the believers in these churches.
III. ABOUT THE DATE AND LOCATION:
I John was written sometime in the late 80's or early 90's A.D.
It is believed that John's letters were written soon after he composed the Gospel of John.
All five of John's letters were written from Ephesus where he spent his elder years leading the churches in Asia Minor.
IV. ABOUT I JOHN:
1 John was written to combat the beginnings of Gnosticism (emphasis on the beginnings). This had just begun.
Gnostic is the Greek word for knowledge. The Gnostics claimed to have special knowledge from God that no one else could know unless they were one of the initiated ones.
And we get that a lot today. People receive "revelation" and "knowledge" supposedly from God, but it's outside of the scriptures. It's not found in the bible.
These false teachers and teachings arose from within the church. Gnostic doctrine was based on dualism which asserted that physical matter was inherently evil, and spirit was good.
Again, most of the introduction to 3 John will be the same as 1 & 2 John. I will share a couple of pieces of information that will be different. I would like to point out that all of John's writings (other than the gospel of John), are in the Jewish Literature section of the New Testament.
It was written to the Jews, Jewish believers. But that didn't eliminate or cause the Gentiles not to be able to receive from the truth from these letters.
I. ABOUT THE AUTHOR:
The apostle John. This is not John the Baptist. This is the apostle, John.
The apostle John had a brother by the name of James. They were known as "The Sons of Zebedee" ( Matthew 10:2-4). Jesus gave them the name "The Sons of Thunder" ( Mark 3:17).
John, Peter, and James were the inner circle of the disciples of Jesus and spent many special times with the Lord ( Matthew 17:1; 26:37).
The apostle John was the only original apostle not to die a martyr's death.
John wrote the Gospel of John, 1, 2, and 3 John, and the Book of Revelation.
And you should keep in mind that even though he wrote the Gospel of John that's at the beginning of the New Testament, the gospel of John was one of the last books written in chronological order. But it was put at the beginning so that all of the gospels could be put together about the earthly ministry of Christ.