The account of Jesus raising Lazarus from the Dead is an actual historical event. It occurred exactly as recorded in John 11. But like many of the historical events recorded in the Bible, and in particular like all of the miracles that Jesus did, this is a "historical parable" in that God has placed it the Bible to teach us something about the Gospel, the Nature of Salvation.
Lazarus was DEAD. God makes that crystal clear in that his Body had started to decay; "he stinketh". So Lazarus could do absolutely nothing to contribute in any way whatsoever to his resurrection back to physical life. But Christ, Eternal God Himself, spoke and said "Lazarus come forth". And Lazarus did rise and came forth.
This is a beautiful picture, a "parable", teaching us what happens to someone when Christ applies Salvation to their life and they become Born Again. Before God saves us we are Spiritually Dead in trespasses and sins. We "stink spiritually" and have no ability to contribute to our Salvation in any way whatsoever ( Rom 3:10-18); CHRIST MUST DO ALL OF THE WORK, 100%, TO SAVE US IF WE ARE TO BECOME SAVED. So when Christ saves us He raises us from Spiritual DEATH to Spiritual LIFE and gives us Eternal Life by giving us a New Resurrected Soul. This is becoming Born Again. Christ in effect says, SINNER COME FORTH. AND WE DO COME FORTH. Just like Lazarus.
The passage in Luke 16 regarding a Rich man and Lazarus CANNOT be a literal historical event for many reasons when we examine the language carefully. The Language is describing a situation which is contrary to the Nature of Salvation itself; no one in the grave has eyes to see or a mouth to speak. And there is no communication between those in the grave and those in heaven. This is indeed a story, a "parable", like many that Jesus told which were not historical events, but were designed to teach some aspect of the Gospel. But a discussion of this "parable" is a subject for another comment and another day.
Psalm 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
The "Holy One" is Christ Himself, not David the man.
So Christ, Eternal God Himself, took upon Himself the sins of those whom He "saves", He Died in His entire being and experienced the Wrath of God as Full Payment for their sins, and DID go into the grave (or hades). But His Soul was not left there. Because He Rose from Death since that the full payment for the sins of His Elect had been COMPLETED.
So when Christ applies Salvation to someone whom He "saves"; i.e. they become Born Again, He gives them a New Resurrected Soul (or Spirit) which in itself, "cannot sin" 1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
So when the True Believer dies physically, their "unsaved Body" goes into the Grave and corrupts to await the Resurrection of the Last Day when their Salvation will be COMPLETED and they will receive their Resurrected Spiritual Body ( 1 Cor 15). But their Soul, i.e. their Spirit Essence, goes immediately to be with Christ in Heaven.
I understand you want to distinguish between the Soul and the Spirit of Mankind. But despite the two verses in Hebrews and 1 Thessalonians, I see the words Soul and Spirit as being synonymous when speaking of the Spirit Essence of Man.
Regarding the Luke 23:46 passage, that is absolutely true. Christ's Spirit went to be with the Father in Heaven, and not into the Grave with His Body which DID NOT corrupt. Why?
And now I'm going to shock you by suggesting that Christ actually made full payment for the sins of HIS Elect even before the Foundation of the World ( Rev 13:8 & Heb 4:3). And the Cross was a actually a DEMONSTRATION of that payment that had already been made. This is why Christ was able to say "IT IS FNISHED", even before He died physically on the Cross and rose again from the grave three days later.
I want to start this by saying thank you to whoever started this King James Bible site, The Holy Spirit was with you.
Many here do not believe the KJB is the Inspired Word of God. If you are one of those people then I ask that you please google this (Truth is Christ) on youtube and watch some of the videos that show Amazing patterns, and facts that only happen in the King James Bible and could only be done by God Himself! PROOF that God Inspired the KJB! It is truly Amazing!
If you are seeking the Truth on whether God preserved His Word in a book for this generation, (and you should be) if you are honestly seeking Truth, you will find it in (Truth is Christ) on youtube.
If you don't think the KJB is the Inspired Word of God then that's even more reason for you to watch these videos because you are being deceived by words of men.
Leave a comment on your thoughts if you seek the Truth and watch these videos, you will not be disappointed but much more importantly you will find the Truth!
I sense in my heart, that you felt in your heart, that within your studies of God's words, you believed, you are being led by the Spirit of God, this, the Spirit of God gave me a sight of, which by your own words were confirmed.
All must acknowledge, that God speaks the same meaning of the Scriptures to all, the Scriptures are in continuity from Genesis to Revelation " there's no different angles to the Truth" as you're implying in this statement
Friend, the influence that you are of can only come from the cup Babylon
If you ever come to the Truth, you will acknowledge that which I have spoken to you is from the love of God to your eternal soul, for no other purpose than your deliverance from her.
Concerning the Quaker's, their writing from 1646-1700 I own these beliefs, & have found by experience, through experiential knowledge of them to be true, according to Scripture, sound reasoning & the Witness within my own conscience, which has delivered me from my captivity of the sins that so easy beset me, when I walk according to your faith.
As of now, these truths that are meant for your peace are hidden from you.
Since the Scriptures say that God would not LEAVE His Holy One in Hell (the abode of the dead), then I believe that the soul of Jesus went there like all human souls did before the resurrection, but His time there was short and after He had accomplished whatever He was to accomplish in this abode He resurrected. What He actually did in this place is inferred from other Scriptures. I do not wish to go into that here. Each person will infer what they wish. That is fine with me, also.
Hi Jema. Just a couple of points to note from your understanding of those passages you quoted. You believe that Simon the Leper ( Matthew 26:6) might be the same person, now named Lazarus (in John 11:1-6). As I understand it, the account of the sickness, death & resurrection of Lazarus (brother of Mary & Martha) took place some time before the account of Simon the Leper. Jesus was on His second journey (after first leaving Jerusalem (in Winter): John 10:22, then onto Jordan: John 10:40) when news came to Him of Lazarus' sickness ( John 11:3). But Jesus continued to stay at Jordan ( John 11:6) & then went to Bethany to deceased Lazarus.
Now the account of Simon the Leper, also in Bethany, occurred very near to the Passover Feast ( Matthew 26:2). And we know this to be so, because after the woman's anointing of Jesus in Simon the Leper's home, Jesus' disciples were annoyed at the waste of this ointment, & Judas Iscariot then left them to put into effect his wicked act. And of course, Jesus then celebrates the Passover with His disciples at the appointed time. So the Lazarus (in John 11) & Simon the Leper (in Matthew 26) can't be the same person and of course it would have saddened Lazarus (& others) tremendously that he who died because of some sickness & was raised by Jesus, yet wasn't healed of his leprosy.
As well, the account of the rich man & (the other) Lazarus ( Luke 16:19-31) is understood to have happened after the Lazarus (of John 11) was raised to life, not before. A synopsis of the Gospels shows that after Jesus began His journey towards Bethany, He also ministered along the way ( Luke 13:22 to Luke 17:1-10). After this, Jesus arrives in Bethany to see the lifeless body of his friend.
You are free to think what you wish about me. But I also can flatly say that your evaluation is entirely wrong about me. Such judgments like yours do not shake me one bit. Actually, I am amazed that people on this forum spend time stating (and thinking) that they can see into a person's heart and know what God knows about a person's relationship with God and how the Spirit is or is not guiding someone.
Frankie, I have read many of your posts and there is much that I disagree with concerning your positions on many Biblical topics, but I know it is best to not do a back and forth with you. Your judgment of me has proved me right in that way.
You know Frankie, you play it fairly loose with many Scriptures and then at other times you cite Scriptures to back up your view and then other times you accuse people who learn from the Scriptures as not being taught by the Holy Spirit. Your inconsistency in this approach to Scripture and the guidance of the Holy Spirit shows me that it is best to not converse back and forth with you at length. I do wish you well and that you grow in grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ; that you continue to seek the Lord and learn from Scriptures as the Holy Spirit guides you. That is how those of us who did not live with Jesus during His earthly life nor during the time the apostles were preaching and teaching converts learn of the faith once and for all passed down to the saints.
I can tell from your posts that you embrace Quakerism which teaches that people can get new revelation from God from the Holy Spirit through quiet contemplation or passivity. I do not believe this to be sound doctrinal practice and will stick with my Bible and the knowledge the Spirit brings forth to me through studying His true Word. I do not trust the revelations of men who claim that the Holy Spirit is teaching them things outside of what is written in Scriptures.
But this forum is open to all and I am glad you are here with us.
Hello again, Jema, I was out for a while today doing errands, and am between errands now, but I wanted to get back to you to give you this Scripture prophecy of the Old Testament king David in Ps. 16:10
"For Thou will not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt Thou suffer Thy Holy One to see decay."
This prophecy was about Jesus not David, as Peter declares in Acts 2:27 and through to vs. 36.
This prophecy of God through David says that the Holy One (Jesus-as Peter identifies the Holy One) was put in the grave bodily, but His soul went into hell. But, Praise God!, was not left in hell to suffer corruption or decay, but was raised up from the dead in body and soul, and was seen and touched by the disciples as Peter and John affirm to being eyewitnesses.
So, this verse in Ps. does say that souls went to hell when their body dies, and, unlike Jesus', our bodies decay. But since we were raised with Christ, our souls were raised up and are seated with Christ in heaven until the resurrection of our bodies on the last day.
This verse is so strong in revealing that souls live on after the body dies and reside either in the presence of God or in hell until the resurrection. I don't think that believer's souls go to hell as Jesus' did. He needed to have His soul in hell, alive and conscious so as to have completed the work of being condemned for our sins and to preach to those souls in hell whose bodies were long decayed into dust since the flood. What He preached I do not know, but His message is always to humans.
Jesus was also in hell in His soul in order to bring captives in His train as He rose from the dead ( Eph. 4:8) Also see Isaiah:61:1.
I also believe that Jesus bound Satan when His soul was in hell, gaining victory over Him. Since this binding, the gospel has been of great effect throughout the world-despite the presence of other evil beings that are not bound in hell as Satan is. But this is a study for another day.
Jesus was fully human in flesh and blood as John says in 1 Jn. 4:2 that true believers confess that the Son of God came in the flesh. And John also says in Jn. 1:1 that Jesus is the Word of God, was with God in creating the world with the Father and the Spirit, and was God. He still is God, the Word, the only begotten Son of God from all eternity, but since His birth of Mary, He is also fully human as well. Only one who is fully God could take upon Himself the nature of what He created in order to secure salvation for these He created from sin and death. And only one who is fully human can be the perfect sacrifice for all of the sins of humanity. It is a one for one exchange, the sinless one for sinful humanity, the second Adam (who lived a perfect life) for the first Adam (who sinned and brought sin to every human person generated through his disobedience). Jesus was the perfect, spotless, unblemished, sin-free human who was solely qualified to be an acceptable sacrifice for our sins. But He was also the perfect Divine Son of God of inestimable value to the Father who was given for us as this sacrifice. Jesus, the perfect human and most love Divine Son of the Father was the only way for mankind to be redeemed. This is the everlasting covenant made between the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit before the creation of the world.
So, as Duncan cited, God is our only Savior, all salvation comes from God alone on Jesus, our Lord. There is no other God to save us but one true Godhead.
Hi Gigi; came in from work & notice the 1st part was not posted or have not found it.
quoting you
I realize that there are several differing views on this topic and I was just entering in what I believe to be true from my study of Scripture,,,, hopefully give something for others to ponder and seek out in the Scriptures as I do with what I read from others that think differently than I do.
I think it is a good thing for people to be open about their beliefs on here so that we can examine beliefs from differing angles and hold them up to the Word of God for verification. end quote.
What you've stated here is an evident token of not being taught of God by His Spirit, but is of human origin, the studying of the letter, without the Spirit guidance.
For the Spirit of God would speak the same thing to all, He's not double-minded
What you believe & stated leads one into a 'form of godliness" without the power to be truly godly as you've stated in another comment & I quote:
"the struggle we wage between the sinful nature & the reborn spirit within us"
Correct me if I'm wrong, from what I gather from this statement is; you consider yourself to be born again, if so than you would have become a partaker of His divine Nature having "pass tense" escape the corruption that is in this world through lust, & according to your statement you're not, for you still struggling with the sinful nature. Therefore your not born again by the incorruptible Seed. John 5:18
Six (6) years after my first comment on Gen Ch. 41 we are now only 4 months away from the New Year (2024).
From the numbers in Gen Ch. 41 we eventually get to 3:3:3 (please see my comment 6 years ago (2017).
We could also place more significance on this by recalling that the COVID Global Pandemic started ringing alarm bells in the third month of the third decade of the third millennium (March 2020).
But could the third number 3 not just be referring to the month but possibly the year that we're in right now, that is 2023?
As I said there's only 4 months of 2023 left now. With the invasion of Ukraine entering some sort of stalemate we won't have long to wait to see if 'the crisis' morphs into the final nuclear solution. So much has been said about global warming and the reduction of emissions by the year 2050, but if 'the crisis' does reemerge before the end of 2023, we won't have to worry about how hot it'll be in 2050, will we?
God has no beginning nor no end. He is eternal in His Being as well as His essence.
Yet, we have in the Gospels the account of Jesus' conception and birth. Jesus, the eternal Son of God, Divine as the Father and Spirit are, took onto Himself a full human nature to become a man. He was born of Mary in about 6 B.C., being both God and man in one person. Th Divine Son of God was born into this world as a human infant, being in every way human but without sin, for the Divine Son of Man (who is the Person who took on human nature) can never sin. In every action, thought, word, motive, Jesus did, He did it as the Person of the Divine Son of God who remained the Divine Son of God in His humanity.
Some divide Jesus up into a human person and another divine person, where sometimes the human person is acting and at other times the divine person is acting. But Jesus was and is only one Person but with two natures since His incarnation, with both divine and human natures that are united but not mixed together (otherwise Jesus would be less that true God and also more than truly human).
Jesus told the Jewish leaders: "before Abraham was, I am" ( Jn. 8:58). The leaders took up stones to kill Him for they knew He was claiming to be God in using the name "I am" and also in saying He was in existence before Abraham lived, which speaks to His eternality.
Heb. 4:15 speaks of Jesus being tempted in every way in His human nature, but never sinned and never possessed a sinful human nature that we all do. But He was fully human, In Heb. 5:7 we are referred back to His time in the Garden of Gethsemane where He prayed to the Father with tears and supplication and the shedding of blood tears in facing the upcoming crucifixion. He
Is it fair for me to assume that , Simon the leper of Matthew Ch 26 V 6 is actually Lazarus of John Ch 11 V 1-6 ? Maybe his name is changed to Lazarus because it means God will help ? When Jesus reaches Bethany , Lazarus has been in the grave , or rather cave , for four days and his body will be corrupted and will smell like it . In Leviticus Ch 7 V 17+18 we read that meat should not be eaten even on the third day , as it is likely to be decaying , good advice which is still heeded by many today . Is it possible , that Jesus told the parable of the rich man and Lazarus ,when he was on his way to Bethany ? If so , it would add an even deeper significance to the final words of the parable : neither will they be persuaded , though one rose from the dead , might this imply that Jesus was not speaking of his own ressurection but of what he was about to accomplish in ressurecting Lazarus from the dead after four days ? In Ezekiel Ch 37 , we read of the ressurection of the bones of the whole house of Israel , which we are part of now having been grafted in . This , by implication , takes place after those bones have been laid in the earth for many years . Four days or four hundred or four thousand years , it makes no difference to the God of all creation . Luke Ch 20 V 38 . We are Lazarus , unclean in life as gentiles ( Lazarus was unclean in life because of his leprosy ) and in need of God's help .
Without contraversy GOD is Spirit and He is the beginning and the end.
as it is written in Isiah 43:11-13
I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
12. I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God.
13. Yea, before the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it?
And
As it is written in Psalm 102:27
But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end.
Repent of your sins and believe in Jesus Christ the son of the living God.
No "work" qualifies any of us for salvation. Salvation by the grace of God. Ephesians 2:8-9 (KJV) 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Salvation is made by: Romans 10:9-10 (KJV) 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Yet, TRUE life-saving faith is not dead, it is not barron, it produces works not for salvation but out of love for Christ.
James 2:16-20 (KJV) 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Hi Gigi , with regard to your questions to me , can you please tell me which scripture you believe refers to Jesus going to hell , I don't use the word hades as to me , it's a Greek mythology term . If you let me know which scripture I will try to answer your question , thankyou .
In Jude the vengeance of eternal fire is not referring to the fire rained down on them in regard to this topic because that fire wasn't eternal and that wasn't their judgement of their second death but the fire that awaits them will be the fire mentioned in Jude.
The example set forth in Jude is them being ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. Same as the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
And the angels which kept not their first estate but left their own habitation.
Jude is putting his recipients in remembrance that these all is reserved to execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.
Have you noticed this group is twice dead, plucked up by the roots already before Judgement?
You can be dead while you liveth.
1 Timothy 5:6. So the body doesn't have to die to be considered dead in the vocabulary here and it doesn't take eternal fire to keep you dead.
I'm talking about the description of that everlasting punishment (Which is future for the unbeliever)
Scripture describes it as torment and weeping and gnashing of teeth due to the unquenchable fire.
There would have to be teeth to gnash and if that's just a metaphor for a reaction to pain, if there is no body or no longer any existence it doesn't make since.
It could be no reaction to it. Torment and weeping and gnashing of teeth is a reaction to the unquenchable fire in these particular verses.
Hi Gigi , so sorry , I meant , can you please send your questions to my e mail :) . Never mind , I shall go back and try to find them in a day or two when I will have more time to give a proper answer .
Yes Ronald, Ezekiel Ch 33 V 11 . I would so hate this to become a bone of contention on here , I can't pretend to believe the same things as many other people on here do , if I don't say what my beliefs are I feel as if I'm being deceitful . That's the only reason that I mention them .
I agree this should not cause any division, we must always treat each other with care and love of growing in faith and knowledge of the word of God.
Everlasting punishment, I once understood the same as you on this when we read Matt. 18:8Matt. 25:46 and 2 Thess. 1:9 they seem to support it. And the verses that have "weeping or wailing and gnashing of teeth" that I cringe every time I read them. So, after the white throne judgment, all the wicked and unsaved people will be cast into the lake of fire the everlasting fire Rev. 20:15Rev. 21:8 and they have a conscious eternal, everlasting, forever and ever suffering.
On the other hand, we have Matt. 10:28 God can destroy both soul and body in hell/geenna. This carries us back to that other topic the immortal soul. In John 3:16 and Romans 6:23, the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. The wicked will perish, be destroyed, and be consumed. If the wicked are to be tortured in the lake of fire forever, they would also be given eternal life.
The fire is everlasting, it is permanent they will be destroyed and never come back they will not ever live again. We see what eternal fire can do in Jude 1:7 with Sodom and Gomorrha they were destroyed and have never returned.
Rev. 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
You may see this verse differently but "shall have their part in the lake" I understand as God's fair justice, like stripes in Luke 12:48. Just punishment for their works or should be said their wickedness. If the wages of sin is death I believe the second death is everlasting death, forever to be no more, not everlasting punishment.
Just my understanding thanks again for your replies.
You have to get it from Chick Publications just do a google search.
After years of work, the Reina Valera Gmez (RVG) Bible is finally available. A true, "Textus Receptus" Bible, the RVG has been proofread and refined by Spanish-speaking Christians in 13 countries. This revision of the RV 1909 is the first Spanish Bible that is not the product of a small committee.
The account of Jesus raising Lazarus from the Dead is an actual historical event. It occurred exactly as recorded in John 11. But like many of the historical events recorded in the Bible, and in particular like all of the miracles that Jesus did, this is a "historical parable" in that God has placed it the Bible to teach us something about the Gospel, the Nature of Salvation.
Lazarus was DEAD. God makes that crystal clear in that his Body had started to decay; "he stinketh". So Lazarus could do absolutely nothing to contribute in any way whatsoever to his resurrection back to physical life. But Christ, Eternal God Himself, spoke and said "Lazarus come forth". And Lazarus did rise and came forth.
This is a beautiful picture, a "parable", teaching us what happens to someone when Christ applies Salvation to their life and they become Born Again. Before God saves us we are Spiritually Dead in trespasses and sins. We "stink spiritually" and have no ability to contribute to our Salvation in any way whatsoever ( Rom 3:10-18); CHRIST MUST DO ALL OF THE WORK, 100%, TO SAVE US IF WE ARE TO BECOME SAVED. So when Christ saves us He raises us from Spiritual DEATH to Spiritual LIFE and gives us Eternal Life by giving us a New Resurrected Soul. This is becoming Born Again. Christ in effect says, SINNER COME FORTH. AND WE DO COME FORTH. Just like Lazarus.
The passage in Luke 16 regarding a Rich man and Lazarus CANNOT be a literal historical event for many reasons when we examine the language carefully. The Language is describing a situation which is contrary to the Nature of Salvation itself; no one in the grave has eyes to see or a mouth to speak. And there is no communication between those in the grave and those in heaven. This is indeed a story, a "parable", like many that Jesus told which were not historical events, but were designed to teach some aspect of the Gospel. But a discussion of this "parable" is a subject for another comment and another day.
Psalm 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
The "Holy One" is Christ Himself, not David the man.
So Christ, Eternal God Himself, took upon Himself the sins of those whom He "saves", He Died in His entire being and experienced the Wrath of God as Full Payment for their sins, and DID go into the grave (or hades). But His Soul was not left there. Because He Rose from Death since that the full payment for the sins of His Elect had been COMPLETED.
So when Christ applies Salvation to someone whom He "saves"; i.e. they become Born Again, He gives them a New Resurrected Soul (or Spirit) which in itself, "cannot sin" 1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
So when the True Believer dies physically, their "unsaved Body" goes into the Grave and corrupts to await the Resurrection of the Last Day when their Salvation will be COMPLETED and they will receive their Resurrected Spiritual Body ( 1 Cor 15). But their Soul, i.e. their Spirit Essence, goes immediately to be with Christ in Heaven.
I understand you want to distinguish between the Soul and the Spirit of Mankind. But despite the two verses in Hebrews and 1 Thessalonians, I see the words Soul and Spirit as being synonymous when speaking of the Spirit Essence of Man.
Regarding the Luke 23:46 passage, that is absolutely true. Christ's Spirit went to be with the Father in Heaven, and not into the Grave with His Body which DID NOT corrupt. Why?
And now I'm going to shock you by suggesting that Christ actually made full payment for the sins of HIS Elect even before the Foundation of the World ( Rev 13:8 & Heb 4:3). And the Cross was a actually a DEMONSTRATION of that payment that had already been made. This is why Christ was able to say "IT IS FNISHED", even before He died physically on the Cross and rose again from the grave three days later.
I want to start this by saying thank you to whoever started this King James Bible site, The Holy Spirit was with you.
Many here do not believe the KJB is the Inspired Word of God. If you are one of those people then I ask that you please google this (Truth is Christ) on youtube and watch some of the videos that show Amazing patterns, and facts that only happen in the King James Bible and could only be done by God Himself! PROOF that God Inspired the KJB! It is truly Amazing!
If you are seeking the Truth on whether God preserved His Word in a book for this generation, (and you should be) if you are honestly seeking Truth, you will find it in (Truth is Christ) on youtube.
If you don't think the KJB is the Inspired Word of God then that's even more reason for you to watch these videos because you are being deceived by words of men.
Leave a comment on your thoughts if you seek the Truth and watch these videos, you will not be disappointed but much more importantly you will find the Truth!
God Bless all you seek His Truth.
I sense in my heart, that you felt in your heart, that within your studies of God's words, you believed, you are being led by the Spirit of God, this, the Spirit of God gave me a sight of, which by your own words were confirmed.
All must acknowledge, that God speaks the same meaning of the Scriptures to all, the Scriptures are in continuity from Genesis to Revelation " there's no different angles to the Truth" as you're implying in this statement
Friend, the influence that you are of can only come from the cup Babylon
If you ever come to the Truth, you will acknowledge that which I have spoken to you is from the love of God to your eternal soul, for no other purpose than your deliverance from her.
Concerning the Quaker's, their writing from 1646-1700 I own these beliefs, & have found by experience, through experiential knowledge of them to be true, according to Scripture, sound reasoning & the Witness within my own conscience, which has delivered me from my captivity of the sins that so easy beset me, when I walk according to your faith.
As of now, these truths that are meant for your peace are hidden from you.
in love & truth
I understand your point.
Since the Scriptures say that God would not LEAVE His Holy One in Hell (the abode of the dead), then I believe that the soul of Jesus went there like all human souls did before the resurrection, but His time there was short and after He had accomplished whatever He was to accomplish in this abode He resurrected. What He actually did in this place is inferred from other Scriptures. I do not wish to go into that here. Each person will infer what they wish. That is fine with me, also.
Have a good day Jema.
Now the account of Simon the Leper, also in Bethany, occurred very near to the Passover Feast ( Matthew 26:2). And we know this to be so, because after the woman's anointing of Jesus in Simon the Leper's home, Jesus' disciples were annoyed at the waste of this ointment, & Judas Iscariot then left them to put into effect his wicked act. And of course, Jesus then celebrates the Passover with His disciples at the appointed time. So the Lazarus (in John 11) & Simon the Leper (in Matthew 26) can't be the same person and of course it would have saddened Lazarus (& others) tremendously that he who died because of some sickness & was raised by Jesus, yet wasn't healed of his leprosy.
As well, the account of the rich man & (the other) Lazarus ( Luke 16:19-31) is understood to have happened after the Lazarus (of John 11) was raised to life, not before. A synopsis of the Gospels shows that after Jesus began His journey towards Bethany, He also ministered along the way ( Luke 13:22 to Luke 17:1-10). After this, Jesus arrives in Bethany to see the lifeless body of his friend.
You are free to think what you wish about me. But I also can flatly say that your evaluation is entirely wrong about me. Such judgments like yours do not shake me one bit. Actually, I am amazed that people on this forum spend time stating (and thinking) that they can see into a person's heart and know what God knows about a person's relationship with God and how the Spirit is or is not guiding someone.
Frankie, I have read many of your posts and there is much that I disagree with concerning your positions on many Biblical topics, but I know it is best to not do a back and forth with you. Your judgment of me has proved me right in that way.
You know Frankie, you play it fairly loose with many Scriptures and then at other times you cite Scriptures to back up your view and then other times you accuse people who learn from the Scriptures as not being taught by the Holy Spirit. Your inconsistency in this approach to Scripture and the guidance of the Holy Spirit shows me that it is best to not converse back and forth with you at length. I do wish you well and that you grow in grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ; that you continue to seek the Lord and learn from Scriptures as the Holy Spirit guides you. That is how those of us who did not live with Jesus during His earthly life nor during the time the apostles were preaching and teaching converts learn of the faith once and for all passed down to the saints.
I can tell from your posts that you embrace Quakerism which teaches that people can get new revelation from God from the Holy Spirit through quiet contemplation or passivity. I do not believe this to be sound doctrinal practice and will stick with my Bible and the knowledge the Spirit brings forth to me through studying His true Word. I do not trust the revelations of men who claim that the Holy Spirit is teaching them things outside of what is written in Scriptures.
But this forum is open to all and I am glad you are here with us.
"For Thou will not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt Thou suffer Thy Holy One to see decay."
This prophecy was about Jesus not David, as Peter declares in Acts 2:27 and through to vs. 36.
This prophecy of God through David says that the Holy One (Jesus-as Peter identifies the Holy One) was put in the grave bodily, but His soul went into hell. But, Praise God!, was not left in hell to suffer corruption or decay, but was raised up from the dead in body and soul, and was seen and touched by the disciples as Peter and John affirm to being eyewitnesses.
So, this verse in Ps. does say that souls went to hell when their body dies, and, unlike Jesus', our bodies decay. But since we were raised with Christ, our souls were raised up and are seated with Christ in heaven until the resurrection of our bodies on the last day.
This verse is so strong in revealing that souls live on after the body dies and reside either in the presence of God or in hell until the resurrection. I don't think that believer's souls go to hell as Jesus' did. He needed to have His soul in hell, alive and conscious so as to have completed the work of being condemned for our sins and to preach to those souls in hell whose bodies were long decayed into dust since the flood. What He preached I do not know, but His message is always to humans.
Jesus was also in hell in His soul in order to bring captives in His train as He rose from the dead ( Eph. 4:8) Also see Isaiah:61:1.
I also believe that Jesus bound Satan when His soul was in hell, gaining victory over Him. Since this binding, the gospel has been of great effect throughout the world-despite the presence of other evil beings that are not bound in hell as Satan is. But this is a study for another day.
Jema, hope this helps.
I think it best for you to just pull up my post and see what questions I asked that you wish to respond to.
to continue:
Jesus was fully human in flesh and blood as John says in 1 Jn. 4:2 that true believers confess that the Son of God came in the flesh. And John also says in Jn. 1:1 that Jesus is the Word of God, was with God in creating the world with the Father and the Spirit, and was God. He still is God, the Word, the only begotten Son of God from all eternity, but since His birth of Mary, He is also fully human as well. Only one who is fully God could take upon Himself the nature of what He created in order to secure salvation for these He created from sin and death. And only one who is fully human can be the perfect sacrifice for all of the sins of humanity. It is a one for one exchange, the sinless one for sinful humanity, the second Adam (who lived a perfect life) for the first Adam (who sinned and brought sin to every human person generated through his disobedience). Jesus was the perfect, spotless, unblemished, sin-free human who was solely qualified to be an acceptable sacrifice for our sins. But He was also the perfect Divine Son of God of inestimable value to the Father who was given for us as this sacrifice. Jesus, the perfect human and most love Divine Son of the Father was the only way for mankind to be redeemed. This is the everlasting covenant made between the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit before the creation of the world.
So, as Duncan cited, God is our only Savior, all salvation comes from God alone on Jesus, our Lord. There is no other God to save us but one true Godhead.
I hope that this is helpful.
Hi Gigi; came in from work & notice the 1st part was not posted or have not found it.
quoting you
I realize that there are several differing views on this topic and I was just entering in what I believe to be true from my study of Scripture,,,, hopefully give something for others to ponder and seek out in the Scriptures as I do with what I read from others that think differently than I do.
I think it is a good thing for people to be open about their beliefs on here so that we can examine beliefs from differing angles and hold them up to the Word of God for verification. end quote.
What you've stated here is an evident token of not being taught of God by His Spirit, but is of human origin, the studying of the letter, without the Spirit guidance.
For the Spirit of God would speak the same thing to all, He's not double-minded
What you believe & stated leads one into a 'form of godliness" without the power to be truly godly as you've stated in another comment & I quote:
"the struggle we wage between the sinful nature & the reborn spirit within us"
Correct me if I'm wrong, from what I gather from this statement is; you consider yourself to be born again, if so than you would have become a partaker of His divine Nature having "pass tense" escape the corruption that is in this world through lust, & according to your statement you're not, for you still struggling with the sinful nature. Therefore your not born again by the incorruptible Seed. John 5:18
Six (6) years after my first comment on Gen Ch. 41 we are now only 4 months away from the New Year (2024).
From the numbers in Gen Ch. 41 we eventually get to 3:3:3 (please see my comment 6 years ago (2017).
We could also place more significance on this by recalling that the COVID Global Pandemic started ringing alarm bells in the third month of the third decade of the third millennium (March 2020).
But could the third number 3 not just be referring to the month but possibly the year that we're in right now, that is 2023?
As I said there's only 4 months of 2023 left now. With the invasion of Ukraine entering some sort of stalemate we won't have long to wait to see if 'the crisis' morphs into the final nuclear solution. So much has been said about global warming and the reduction of emissions by the year 2050, but if 'the crisis' does reemerge before the end of 2023, we won't have to worry about how hot it'll be in 2050, will we?
This is what I believe to be true:
God has no beginning nor no end. He is eternal in His Being as well as His essence.
Yet, we have in the Gospels the account of Jesus' conception and birth. Jesus, the eternal Son of God, Divine as the Father and Spirit are, took onto Himself a full human nature to become a man. He was born of Mary in about 6 B.C., being both God and man in one person. Th Divine Son of God was born into this world as a human infant, being in every way human but without sin, for the Divine Son of Man (who is the Person who took on human nature) can never sin. In every action, thought, word, motive, Jesus did, He did it as the Person of the Divine Son of God who remained the Divine Son of God in His humanity.
Some divide Jesus up into a human person and another divine person, where sometimes the human person is acting and at other times the divine person is acting. But Jesus was and is only one Person but with two natures since His incarnation, with both divine and human natures that are united but not mixed together (otherwise Jesus would be less that true God and also more than truly human).
Jesus told the Jewish leaders: "before Abraham was, I am" ( Jn. 8:58). The leaders took up stones to kill Him for they knew He was claiming to be God in using the name "I am" and also in saying He was in existence before Abraham lived, which speaks to His eternality.
Heb. 4:15 speaks of Jesus being tempted in every way in His human nature, but never sinned and never possessed a sinful human nature that we all do. But He was fully human, In Heb. 5:7 we are referred back to His time in the Garden of Gethsemane where He prayed to the Father with tears and supplication and the shedding of blood tears in facing the upcoming crucifixion. He
Here is the Scripture citation;
1 Peter 3:18-19
Is it fair for me to assume that , Simon the leper of Matthew Ch 26 V 6 is actually Lazarus of John Ch 11 V 1-6 ? Maybe his name is changed to Lazarus because it means God will help ? When Jesus reaches Bethany , Lazarus has been in the grave , or rather cave , for four days and his body will be corrupted and will smell like it . In Leviticus Ch 7 V 17+18 we read that meat should not be eaten even on the third day , as it is likely to be decaying , good advice which is still heeded by many today . Is it possible , that Jesus told the parable of the rich man and Lazarus ,when he was on his way to Bethany ? If so , it would add an even deeper significance to the final words of the parable : neither will they be persuaded , though one rose from the dead , might this imply that Jesus was not speaking of his own ressurection but of what he was about to accomplish in ressurecting Lazarus from the dead after four days ? In Ezekiel Ch 37 , we read of the ressurection of the bones of the whole house of Israel , which we are part of now having been grafted in . This , by implication , takes place after those bones have been laid in the earth for many years . Four days or four hundred or four thousand years , it makes no difference to the God of all creation . Luke Ch 20 V 38 . We are Lazarus , unclean in life as gentiles ( Lazarus was unclean in life because of his leprosy ) and in need of God's help .
Without contraversy GOD is Spirit and He is the beginning and the end.
as it is written in Isiah 43:11-13
I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
12. I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God.
13. Yea, before the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it?
And
As it is written in Psalm 102:27
But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end.
Repent of your sins and believe in Jesus Christ the son of the living God.
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Salvation is made by: Romans 10:9-10 (KJV) 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Yet, TRUE life-saving faith is not dead, it is not barron, it produces works not for salvation but out of love for Christ.
James 2:16-20 (KJV) 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Blessings!
10Waiting for his Son from heaven, who came back from the dead, even Jesus, our Saviour from the wrath to come.
DNT
10and to await his Son from the heavens, whom he raised from among the dead, Jesus, our deliverer from the coming wrath.
These alternate translations might be a little clearer, yet I still prefer the KJV rendition.
Blessings!
In Jude the vengeance of eternal fire is not referring to the fire rained down on them in regard to this topic because that fire wasn't eternal and that wasn't their judgement of their second death but the fire that awaits them will be the fire mentioned in Jude.
The example set forth in Jude is them being ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. Same as the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
And the angels which kept not their first estate but left their own habitation.
Jude is putting his recipients in remembrance that these all is reserved to execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.
Have you noticed this group is twice dead, plucked up by the roots already before Judgement?
You can be dead while you liveth.
1 Timothy 5:6. So the body doesn't have to die to be considered dead in the vocabulary here and it doesn't take eternal fire to keep you dead.
I'm talking about the description of that everlasting punishment (Which is future for the unbeliever)
Scripture describes it as torment and weeping and gnashing of teeth due to the unquenchable fire.
There would have to be teeth to gnash and if that's just a metaphor for a reaction to pain, if there is no body or no longer any existence it doesn't make since.
It could be no reaction to it. Torment and weeping and gnashing of teeth is a reaction to the unquenchable fire in these particular verses.
God bless.
I agree this should not cause any division, we must always treat each other with care and love of growing in faith and knowledge of the word of God.
Everlasting punishment, I once understood the same as you on this when we read Matt. 18:8 Matt. 25:46 and 2 Thess. 1:9 they seem to support it. And the verses that have "weeping or wailing and gnashing of teeth" that I cringe every time I read them. So, after the white throne judgment, all the wicked and unsaved people will be cast into the lake of fire the everlasting fire Rev. 20:15 Rev. 21:8 and they have a conscious eternal, everlasting, forever and ever suffering.
On the other hand, we have Matt. 10:28 God can destroy both soul and body in hell/geenna. This carries us back to that other topic the immortal soul. In John 3:16 and Romans 6:23, the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. The wicked will perish, be destroyed, and be consumed. If the wicked are to be tortured in the lake of fire forever, they would also be given eternal life.
The fire is everlasting, it is permanent they will be destroyed and never come back they will not ever live again. We see what eternal fire can do in Jude 1:7 with Sodom and Gomorrha they were destroyed and have never returned.
Rev. 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
You may see this verse differently but "shall have their part in the lake" I understand as God's fair justice, like stripes in Luke 12:48. Just punishment for their works or should be said their wickedness. If the wages of sin is death I believe the second death is everlasting death, forever to be no more, not everlasting punishment.
Just my understanding thanks again for your replies.
God bless,
RLW
RVG/KJV - Bilingual Edition (Black)
You have to get it from Chick Publications just do a google search.
After years of work, the Reina Valera Gmez (RVG) Bible is finally available. A true, "Textus Receptus" Bible, the RVG has been proofread and refined by Spanish-speaking Christians in 13 countries. This revision of the RV 1909 is the first Spanish Bible that is not the product of a small committee.