Ephesians 4:1 - I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
He says, that you walk worthy of the vocation, or calling, wherewith you are called. None of us are worthy from a human standpoint. But the Greek word for worthy means balanced, or equal. You go down to the marketplace and put an item on one of the balances, and you would put money on the other side until it equals out. And that's how much the item is worth, and that's how much you pay for it in the marketplace. He's saying live worthy of your calling.
Ephesians 4:2 - With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
With all lowliness, which means a humble frame of mind, or a lowly frame of mind. With all humble mindedness, and meekness, which means openness. With longsuffering, or slow in human reaction towards others. Longsuffering is exampled by two participles. Number one, forbearing, or supporting one another in love; It can even mean to tolerate which would fit in better with longsuffering.
Ephesians 3:19 - And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
We're complete in Christ. We're not lacking anything. We have all of Christ. Now the word filled, without getting too technical, because even in the book of Acts, the disciples were filled with the Holy Spirit. It doesn't mean that the Holy Spirit leaks out and you got to get filled up again.
PIMPLEMI is the Greek word for "to be filled," and it has to do with having your human senses taken over by something. In other words, Christ is in me but sometimes people see me as just myself. Other times, the Holy Spirit fills my human faculties, and He uses me to speak or to understand, or something. He takes over my human faculties. That's what it means to be filled. I always have Him in His fullness. But Paul is praying that His fullness would become full over me and in me in all of my living of life, that I might be filled with all of His fullness that's already there.
Ephesians 3:20 - Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
He says, now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think. You can't piece together words like that in any literature better than that. He is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think!
All that I'm complaining about, all that I'm asking the Lord about, He's doing much more. And He knows so much more. And it's according to the power that is working in us. The word working is the word energy. According to the DUNAMIS, the power that is energizing in us.
Hi GiGi. Firstly, warm(!) Christian greetings & belated wishes on the occasion of your recent birthday. Trust it was a good one, even to have a little welcome snow around you to help brighten your special day. Where I am in Aust, we get no snow at all, but we certainly enjoyed the snow very much when visiting friends in Colorado several years ago.
Actually, until this discussion on the Lord's Body & Blood and its relation to the Bread & Wine, I always believed that if you belonged to the RC Church then transubstantiation was understood & accepted without question; and if not part of that Church, then those elements were simply emblematic. So, it has been great reading & of interest to me, to read that even amongst the non RC, there can be views that are somewhere in-between (as also evidenced by some of the early Church fathers). So I will bear these things in mind & see what further help I can gain, if any, from the Lord's Spirit. Thanks for your input - with blessings & sincere wishes once again.
Thank you for your kind response. I do lean towards your belief concerning partaking of Jesus' body and blood. I just can't say that I truly understand how this come about when we celebrate communion.
Growing up I attended Catholic Mass at times with my friends who were Catholic. The Mass includes many wonderfully reverent and praiseworthy prayers and responses from the congregation.
One that I am reminded of concerning this topic is the response to the invitation to come to receive communion. "Lord, I am not worthy to receive You, but speak but the Word and I will be healed". I love this humble and true response to being invited to receive Jesus in the taking of the bread and wine. It was one thing I still remember from those times I shared with my friends. I do not know if the Greek Orthodox service includes a prayer similar to this one. This response to the invitation of communion is one that could be adapted with an ending that fits ones situation better such as: "But speak but the Word and I shall be made clean (from confession of sins)" or "Speak but the Word and I shall receive You".
Thanks for participating in this conversation. I, too, believe that the OT was the time for "types" that represent or memorialize God's work, but the commanded ordinances of Jesus in the NT are the "anti-type" (the reality) and we should acknowledge by faith that we receive what the Scriptures say we receive from baptism and from the Lord's Table.
I can certainly see that, and I also recognize something that isn't highlighted as much as it should be: humility. The act of washing feet was a task reserved for slaves, and Jesus performed this just after the disciples debated who would be the greatest in the kingdom. Through this action, Jesus teaches the principle of servant leadership, which I believe is quite rare today. While some churches may exemplify this, many preachers, teachers, and leaders seem more interested in being served and profiting from their roles. Paul says this several times saying he is a servant, "he that is called, being free, is Christ's servant".
Thanks for the information GiGi. For me it is important to believe that the Bread and Wine are litterally the Body and Blood of Christ. There are no symbolic ceremonies in Christianity. There is no reason for that. Symbols and emblems were the norm in the Old Testament. Jesus didn't have to establish a symbolic ceremony to get us to remember His sacrifice, this is always in His children's minds and hearts. And it will be for ever. Even in eternity we will be seeing the scars in His Hands and Feet so we will always know the reason we will be there with Him. Not because we deserve something more than the rest, but because of the infinite love and grace of our Lord who became sin for us so that we become Justice to God through Him. Even water baptism is very significant. Because avoiding doing so will keep one out of salvation. God's command is very clear, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.", Mark 16:16. It couldn't be clearer than that. Every command of God is very important. Not obeing a command is a sin. And an unrepentant sin, when one is aware of it, will keep one away from His Kingdom, no matter if one is born again. It is also very important to have repented about any sin we know we have when partaking in His Body and Blood. In my church we have this ceremony every Sunday. And it is a very practical way to repend and not keep a sin for a longer time. GBU
COGIC SUNDAY SCHOOL BOOK 2/2/2025 Luke 10:25-34 KJV COGIC WORSHIP 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV I worship a God of Good report saving people to believe the Gospel obedeince to God Philippians 4:8 KJV .A God of love and mercy titled "good" in humanity, how to love others Luke 10:27 KJV. God of Unity Principle-Holy to all religions.Always performaning righteousness, holiness in actions "to do it" of God, to have faith, hope, love is unity" and also gives boldness.God to run the Christian race and receive the prize To have faith beyond measure. To walk by faith not by sight. 2 Corinthians 5:7 KJV. To do and say.
I am sorry that your wife is fighting cancer. I will remember to pray for her. Please keep us posted as to her progress so we can continue to intercede for her healing and recovery.
I am sorry that your surgery was not as successful as you had hoped. I definitely will keep praying for your recovery and that you will receive medical care that is proper, helpful, and brings resolve to the issue you are facing.
We all must submit to the Holy Scriptures and the Spirit that inspired the authors to write as they did. Thanks for the quote from Tertullian. He lived in the 200's, I believe. and Irenaeus lived a bit later than Tertullian. Ignatius lived shortly after John the apostle died at the end of the first century. I do not know if the same gnostic influences were present during the lives of each of these believers. The reason I mentioned Ignatius is because of how close in time he lived to the apostolic time-frame. I think that his thoughts would closely align with that of the apostles and the early church because of the closeness in time of the two groups.
For me, when I consider the two ordinances Jesus initiated I think there is most likely much that these rites do for believers that we just do not know about. They are hidden in the counsel of the Godhead. I don't think I can correctly extract such from God that He has not revealed. But I do approach the ordinance in faith in God to do all that He wills to do in us when we obey the Scriptures in which He instructs us to partake of these rites. Therefore, I can be satisfied with not knowing the depths of these things because I know that it is God who wills and works in me according to His good pleasure and perfect will. I just trust Him and what He wishes to do in me and through me.f
Have a great weekend. We will be getting snow over the next day or two, the first of this winter. I love snow as long as it isn't a "snowmagedon" type of event that causes all sorts of problems. My birthday was Thursday and it has been common over the years for the Pacific Northwest to get snow on or around my birthday. I always hope for a bit of snow, at least enough for the kids to get a chance to play in it as I did when I was young and for us old folks to marvel at the quietness of snow falling and the beauty of everything being blanketed in fresh snowfall. I love how it glistens in the moonlight.
Thanks GiGi for your comments & adding further to this thread. I understand that this belief has different interpretations, but also those views were present from the earliest known writings. You referred to Zwingli & Luther and then to Ignatius of Antioch.
A major part of the writings by the early Church fathers on this matter stemmed from the prevailing Gnostic (Docetic) heresies rife within the Church. So when we read from Ignatius or Irenaeus for example, we must bear in mind that that was what was primarily in their minds: to refute the Docetic heresy that Jesus did not possess a real physical body of flesh & blood (even as the Apostle John warned against such in 2 John 1:7). So when Jesus spoke speaking of the bread & wine, "this is My Bodythis is My Blood of the New Testament", these fathers would show & confirm with the Church that from the very Mouth of Jesus, He affirmed His physical presence & not some phantom-like appearance as declared by the heretics.
So, it was not only to combat heresy alone, but also to affirm their beliefs in the symbolic nature of the elements, did those fathers also declare; as Tertullian did, "Having taken the bread and given it to His disciples, Jesus made it His own body, by saying, 'This is My body', that is, the SYMBOL of My body. There could not have been a symbol, however, unless there was first a true body. An empty thing or phantom is incapable of a symbol. He (Jesus) likewise, when mentioning the cup and making the new covenant to be sealed 'in His blood,' affirms the reality of His body. For no blood can belong to a body that is not a body of flesh" (Against Marcion, 4.40). Though I'm sure there were also others of the faith who espoused the actual substance change in the elements.
Anyway, this has been a good discussion, as we share how we understand God's Word, and of course, in all our readings, we must be open to the Spirit's enlightening Work in us. Blessings.
I am thinking that John chapter 13 verses 4 through to 10 , hark back to Leviticus chapter 8 verses 22 to the end of the chapter , where Moses consecrates the Levites for the services . In the washing of his desciples feet Jesus is ceremoniously cleansing them ready for the work that they will accomplish after he has gone on ahead .
It seems from what I have read that the early church believed the account and words of Jesus at the Last Supper literally along with what Jesus said in John 6 concerning eating his body, the bread that came down from heaven, co paring His body to the manna in the wilderness that sustained the Israelites. This was the prevailing view in church history until early in the 1500's.
An interesting story is that of Luther debating Zwingli in his usual polemic and strong debating style on this topic. Zwingli was promoting the memorial view, which was a novel view at the time, and Luther was holding to the real presence of Jesus in with and under the bread and wine (the bread and wine did not change) but Jesus did come in an unexplainable way to be actually Present in the partaking of the bread and wine in the service. While debating with Zwingli, Luther carved early in the the words "This IS MY body" in the table before them (or similar words, but in Latin) to emphasize how literally and concretely he believed the Lord's Presence is in the communion rite. This gives us the strength of this viewpoint in the history of the church. From Zwingli, the teaching of communion being a commemoration entered the view of Christian churches and believers from that time on.
Can any of us truly know what Jesus meant by His words or by instituting this rite? We can try to interpret the best we are able to do and look all the way back to people such as Ignatius of Antioch, who was born in 110 A.D. to see that the supper was considered to be partaking of Jesus' body and blood. For me, I admit to God that I do not fully understand what all He does and intends in His children partaking of communion, yet I avow to Him that I believe that I will receive in communion the benefits He places in the taking of it for and to me. I do think we are told to do it as a memorial, as Jesus' words say, but He also identified the bread and wine as His body and blood.
Thanks brother Chris. But I don't think I agree. I think that also the writtings of the first christians show towards the litteral meaning of those elements. That is why the most ancient churches like the Eastern Orthodox church as well as the Roman Catholic Church consider them litterally. But to be honest I haven't made any research myself. Again thanks and may God bless you.
But in Jesus time those killings were done on the 14th, obviously due to the huge number of killings to be done by the priests in the Temple (and not in their houses as initially). Flavius Josephus in his Jewish wars, Book IV, chapter 9, par 6 writes, "So these High-priests, upon the coming of that feast which is called the passover, when they slay their sacrifices, from the ninth hour (3pm) till the eleventh (5pm)..."
There were also many other changes through time since the exit of the Israelites from Egypt. God commaned that they eat the meal in a rush, not sitting, but later they sat on tables and many other.
But said before John in his gospel disagrees and places the passover meal that Jesus had a day earlier, on the 13th, which actually must be the right date.
Anyway, all that just for information. So we disagree whether that supper was a pasover meal or not, but we agree on the date. We also disagree whether in the Lord's supper the bread and the wine were litterally or symbolic meant to be. But grape fruit instead of wine? No thanks, I will not take that. Those are churches who believe that christians must not drink alcohol at all so they use other liquids than wine, some use coca cola.
My opinion is that it is clear that Jesus ate the passover meal with His disciples (a day earlier as John writes in his gospel). This is what I get from the scrippure. Matthew 26:17-20, Mark 14:13-17, Luke 22:1-13.
The strange thing is that all three call it the first day of the unleaved bread. Luke 22:7, Mark 26:17, Matthew 26:17.
Lets read Matthew 26:17, "Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover?" and Mark adds " And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover..."
We know that the lambs were killed on the 14th of Nissan and the next day, the 15th, was the first day of the feast of the unleaved bread. So it seems that the evangelists got it wrong? The most probable explanation that I have read is that during Jesus' time that feast became an 8 day feast instead of a seven day feast (as God commanded to Israelites in Egypt) and the 14th of Nissan was also included in the feast. The Jewish historian Flavius Josephus who wtote about the Jewish revolution against Romans in 70AD and who lived in Jerusalem during all those events writes in his history "Whence it is, that, in memory of the want we were then in, we keep a feast for EIGHT days; which is called the feast of Unleavened-bread", Antiquities of Jews, Book II, chapter 15, paragraph 1. So it seems that during Jesus' time the 14th of Nissan was included in the feast so it became an 8 day feast.
Another change that was made untill Jesus time is that although God commanded that the lambs must be killed after the sunset (so on the 15th of Nissan) as Deuteronomy 16:6 says, "But at the place which the LORD thy God shall choose to place his name in, there thou shalt sacrifice the passover at even, at the going down of the sun (15th of Nissan), at the season that thou camest forth out of Egypt." that was changed later on.
Ephesians 2:2 - Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, and secondly, according to the prince of the power of the air, which is Satan, the spirit that is now working, or energizing in the children of "the" disobedience:
There's a definite article with the word obedience. It is the specific disobedience, the disobedience to God. So, the prince and power of the air is energizing the children of disobedience, the same way it did us.
Ephesians 2:12 - That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
That phrase "without God" in the Greek is ATHEOS where we get the word atheist from. ATHEOS is a compound Greek word, A=Without, and Theos=God. Every person that's not saved is an atheist. They're without God! A person can believe in God, they can go to church religiously, they can read the bible and look and act like everyone else in the church and still not be born of God's Spirit. That person is still considered an Atheist by the literal definition of the word.
Ephesians 2:14 - For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
For he is our peace, and it is interesting that the word peace here has the definite article. He is the peace. Peace is a person, not a feeling. The word itself, EIRENE, it means to be united. When you're at peace with somebody, you're at one with them.
Ephesians 1:10 - That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
That in the dispensation, the explanation of this mystery, it gives us a little introduction. We won't get the mystery until Chapter 3 Verse 6. That in the dispensation of the fulness of times, God might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
Right now, there is a sifting process going on. Christ has been set above all things. There are those who are lining up with Christ and submitting to Him, and there are others who are not. God's plan is to make one body, one group worldwide, past, present, and future, who will be called up to Christ. He's picking out for Himself a people for Himself.
The word dispensation means administration. You've probably heard that doctrine too, the doctrine of dispensation. OIKONOMIA is the Greek word for economy. That's the Greek word that's used here for this dispensation. So, he says the reason why God has made the mystery of His will known at this time is so that He can gather up, in the future of ministration, in the fullness of times, that is when everything's been fulfilled, that He might gather together in one, all things in Christ both in heaven and upon the earth.
Ephesians 1:17 - That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you, literally, a spirit of wisdom and revelation, literally, in the full knowledge of him:
Ephesians 1:7 - In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
In whom (that is in Christ), we have redemption through his blood, that is, the forgiveness of sins. So, redemption equals the forgiveness of sins. And this again is on the basis of according to the riches of his grace;
According to the wealth of God's grace, He provides this for us. The word redemption means to purchase out of the marketplace. They used to line up slaves down at the markets, and people would come down specifically to get a slave. They would buy one. They would purchase him out of the marketplace.
That's what redemption means. Not only do we have forgiveness of sins, but that forgiveness comes through His blood, and it was through His blood that He purchased us. Some believers either forget, or don't realize what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 that our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, which you have from God, for you were bought with a price. He owns us. We've been purchased. That's why when we get to Verse 14, when the Holy Spirit seals us, He's waiting for the day that He comes for His possession. You see, He bought us. He owns us!
Ephesians 1:8 - Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
The word prudence means insight. He has given us the ability to see and understand spiritual things. It's interesting that the word prudence gives us understanding. Many believers have understanding, but wisdom is the application of that understanding.
In other words, I can train my mind to memorize the bible where if you just mention a word that is found in the bible, I would start quoting scriptures. But that's not necessarily wisdom. Wisdom is to be able to see and know and have the realization of that truth working in your life. It's not something we claim. It's something that's going on! He abounds towards us in wisdom and insight.
Ephesians 1:2 - Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
The normal greeting by Paul, Grace be to you, and peace. Grace (CHARIS) is the greeting to the Greeks, peace (SHALOM) is the greeting to the Jews. But it's not the human greeting. He's saying grace and peace to you from God. May God's grace and God's peace be with you, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
Before I continue, I would like to share with you that Ephesians 1:3-14 in the Greek text is all one sentence. And that's a very important piece of information in deciphering some of the things that we wrestle with from this text.
Ephesians 1:3 - Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
He says blessed be, and notice the word "be" is in italics. Usually when it is a present statement of fact, the writer will leave the verb out, indicating to us that the word "is" is meant in the text blessed is the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
The word blessed (EULOGEO) is where we get our English word eulogy from. And it literally means to speak well of someone. There are different meanings for the word blessed. For instance, in Matthew Chapter 5 in the Sermon on the Mount, all of those principles begin with the word blessed or bless-ed. That's the word MAKARIOS and it means to be filled with the fullness of something.
This word blessed used here means to speak well of. What he's saying is the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ is well spoken of. You'll notice that when we find ourselves in difficult times, we begin to question God, even to His face.
(Ephesians Part 1): Written to the church in Ephesus, the Roman capital of Asia.
Ephesians 1:1 - Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
Where it says, "by the will of God," it is literally through the will of God. It wasn't Paul's will or choice. It was by God's will that he be commissioned as an apostle.
The term "in Ephesus" is not found in the older manuscripts. It's blank, which causes us to conclude along with the style of the letter that this letter was a circulation letter which began in Ephesus. Everything in the book of Ephesians applies to every believer. So, it's not to a specific problem or issue in the city of Ephesus. This is a presentation and an establishment for every believer in Christ.
Please notice what he calls them. He says to the saints who are in Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus. The words saints and faithful have one definite article for both words. The definite article is the word "the." So, saints and faithful describe the same people. The word saint means to be set apart. It is a position, not a performance. Once the Holy Spirit or Spirit of Christ comes into my life, I am set apart. And that's what the word saint means. And that whole process is called sanctification which is the verb form of the adjective saint.
Now the word faithful is an adjective that describes people who are consistently under the persuasion and influence of God's faith. Remember that faith is given to us by God. So, to the saints in Ephesus and to the faithful in Christ Jesus, not to Him, but in Him!
Thank you for your message. I know this is a late response, but I have been away from here for a couple of days focusing on my Ephesian study. We do agree in part but not on everything. We agree that the bread and cup were symbolic of Jesus' body and blood, not His literal body and blood. What we differ on is whether or not the Last Supper was a Passover meal. This is one of those topics that has been debated for a long time. There are multiple views. From my studies, I hold that it was a Passover meal, but I am not claiming to be right or wrong on this one my brother.
As we see in Matthew 26:17 and Mark 14:10, they say when they kill the Passover (lamb). Luke 22:7 also says when the Passover must be killed. This is on Passover day, the 14th when they killed the lambs. The 15th, the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, is the Sabbath, not the 14th. The 14th is a preparation day, just like a Friday is for the weekly Saturday.
There are no restrictions on the 14th, Passover Day, the day Jesus was crucified, Joesph could buy or prepare whatever he wanted, before sunset that day. That is why we see they wanted to get Jesus in the tomb before sunset because the next day is the first day of Unleavened Bread is a holy convocation/Sabbath day
In Luke 22:15 Jesus is telling them He desired to eat this Passover, but in the next verse, He says He will not eat it anymore. He said this because He knew He would be crucified that same day, the 14th Passover Day. He would be dead and placed in the tomb before they ate the Passover the next night.
On the 14th, the Lord's Supper, the garden, the arrest, the high priest, Pilate, was crucified, and He died at 3 PM, about 3-4 hours before sunset. The Passover Lambs were killed at even, which would be the afternoon when the sun was going down. Jesus was placed in the tomb before sunset and after sunset, it was the 15th, the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, this is when they ate the Passover meal.
Only the priests could catch the blood of the Passover lambs and put it on the altar and the Levites would clean the lambs. In the morning after the Last Supper, the priests took Jesus to Pilate they would not go in, John 18:28 they would be defiled and could not catch the blood of the lambs that would be killed later that day the same day Jesus was crucified, the 14th Passover day.
On the Lord's Supper, this is the only thing Jesus said to do in remembrance of Him. The elements used to represent Christ's body and blood are bread and wine. Some churches I have gone to use wine and some use grape juice this is debatable.
My understanding is the language used to describe the Lord's Supper in Scripture is symbolic. It is a memorial that keeps us in memory of what Jesus did for us the bread and wine symbolize our spiritual unity with Jesus' body and blood that He gave for us and by doing this we honor Jesus.
In Corinthians, these people were used to pagan feasts eating meat sacrificed to idols and getting drunk. I feel this is why Paul was so harsh because of the meaning of the Lord's table, and they cannot do both. Jesus died to save us from sin if we memorialize His death in the Lord's Supper, we must know the importance of doing away with sin in our lives.
I may be wrong, but I feel they did this as part of the gospel and feel the Lord's Supper is a time to be thankful and remember how Jesus suffered and sacrificed for us, a time for forgiveness, and a time for eagerly waiting for His return.
Thanks, sorry for the delay brother, I hope this is what you were looking for.
Ephesians 4:1 - I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
He says, that you walk worthy of the vocation, or calling, wherewith you are called. None of us are worthy from a human standpoint. But the Greek word for worthy means balanced, or equal. You go down to the marketplace and put an item on one of the balances, and you would put money on the other side until it equals out. And that's how much the item is worth, and that's how much you pay for it in the marketplace. He's saying live worthy of your calling.
Ephesians 4:2 - With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
With all lowliness, which means a humble frame of mind, or a lowly frame of mind. With all humble mindedness, and meekness, which means openness. With longsuffering, or slow in human reaction towards others. Longsuffering is exampled by two participles. Number one, forbearing, or supporting one another in love; It can even mean to tolerate which would fit in better with longsuffering.
Ephesians 3:19 - And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
We're complete in Christ. We're not lacking anything. We have all of Christ. Now the word filled, without getting too technical, because even in the book of Acts, the disciples were filled with the Holy Spirit. It doesn't mean that the Holy Spirit leaks out and you got to get filled up again.
PIMPLEMI is the Greek word for "to be filled," and it has to do with having your human senses taken over by something. In other words, Christ is in me but sometimes people see me as just myself. Other times, the Holy Spirit fills my human faculties, and He uses me to speak or to understand, or something. He takes over my human faculties. That's what it means to be filled. I always have Him in His fullness. But Paul is praying that His fullness would become full over me and in me in all of my living of life, that I might be filled with all of His fullness that's already there.
Ephesians 3:20 - Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
He says, now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think. You can't piece together words like that in any literature better than that. He is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think!
All that I'm complaining about, all that I'm asking the Lord about, He's doing much more. And He knows so much more. And it's according to the power that is working in us. The word working is the word energy. According to the DUNAMIS, the power that is energizing in us.
Actually, until this discussion on the Lord's Body & Blood and its relation to the Bread & Wine, I always believed that if you belonged to the RC Church then transubstantiation was understood & accepted without question; and if not part of that Church, then those elements were simply emblematic. So, it has been great reading & of interest to me, to read that even amongst the non RC, there can be views that are somewhere in-between (as also evidenced by some of the early Church fathers). So I will bear these things in mind & see what further help I can gain, if any, from the Lord's Spirit. Thanks for your input - with blessings & sincere wishes once again.
On to Ephesians!
Thank you for your kind response. I do lean towards your belief concerning partaking of Jesus' body and blood. I just can't say that I truly understand how this come about when we celebrate communion.
Growing up I attended Catholic Mass at times with my friends who were Catholic. The Mass includes many wonderfully reverent and praiseworthy prayers and responses from the congregation.
One that I am reminded of concerning this topic is the response to the invitation to come to receive communion. "Lord, I am not worthy to receive You, but speak but the Word and I will be healed". I love this humble and true response to being invited to receive Jesus in the taking of the bread and wine. It was one thing I still remember from those times I shared with my friends. I do not know if the Greek Orthodox service includes a prayer similar to this one. This response to the invitation of communion is one that could be adapted with an ending that fits ones situation better such as: "But speak but the Word and I shall be made clean (from confession of sins)" or "Speak but the Word and I shall receive You".
Thanks for participating in this conversation. I, too, believe that the OT was the time for "types" that represent or memorialize God's work, but the commanded ordinances of Jesus in the NT are the "anti-type" (the reality) and we should acknowledge by faith that we receive what the Scriptures say we receive from baptism and from the Lord's Table.
I can certainly see that, and I also recognize something that isn't highlighted as much as it should be: humility. The act of washing feet was a task reserved for slaves, and Jesus performed this just after the disciples debated who would be the greatest in the kingdom. Through this action, Jesus teaches the principle of servant leadership, which I believe is quite rare today. While some churches may exemplify this, many preachers, teachers, and leaders seem more interested in being served and profiting from their roles. Paul says this several times saying he is a servant, "he that is called, being free, is Christ's servant".
God bless,
RLW
I am sorry that your wife is fighting cancer. I will remember to pray for her. Please keep us posted as to her progress so we can continue to intercede for her healing and recovery.
I am happy to keep your daughter and baby in prayer. May God cause the baby to turn soon and bring a safe deliver for Mom and baby.
I am sorry that your surgery was not as successful as you had hoped. I definitely will keep praying for your recovery and that you will receive medical care that is proper, helpful, and brings resolve to the issue you are facing.
I will certainly pray for God to unify your family again soon.
I will be praying for you and your family this week. So sorry for the hardship everyone in your family is enduring at this time.
We all must submit to the Holy Scriptures and the Spirit that inspired the authors to write as they did. Thanks for the quote from Tertullian. He lived in the 200's, I believe. and Irenaeus lived a bit later than Tertullian. Ignatius lived shortly after John the apostle died at the end of the first century. I do not know if the same gnostic influences were present during the lives of each of these believers. The reason I mentioned Ignatius is because of how close in time he lived to the apostolic time-frame. I think that his thoughts would closely align with that of the apostles and the early church because of the closeness in time of the two groups.
For me, when I consider the two ordinances Jesus initiated I think there is most likely much that these rites do for believers that we just do not know about. They are hidden in the counsel of the Godhead. I don't think I can correctly extract such from God that He has not revealed. But I do approach the ordinance in faith in God to do all that He wills to do in us when we obey the Scriptures in which He instructs us to partake of these rites. Therefore, I can be satisfied with not knowing the depths of these things because I know that it is God who wills and works in me according to His good pleasure and perfect will. I just trust Him and what He wishes to do in me and through me.f
Have a great weekend. We will be getting snow over the next day or two, the first of this winter. I love snow as long as it isn't a "snowmagedon" type of event that causes all sorts of problems. My birthday was Thursday and it has been common over the years for the Pacific Northwest to get snow on or around my birthday. I always hope for a bit of snow, at least enough for the kids to get a chance to play in it as I did when I was young and for us old folks to marvel at the quietness of snow falling and the beauty of everything being blanketed in fresh snowfall. I love how it glistens in the moonlight.
A major part of the writings by the early Church fathers on this matter stemmed from the prevailing Gnostic (Docetic) heresies rife within the Church. So when we read from Ignatius or Irenaeus for example, we must bear in mind that that was what was primarily in their minds: to refute the Docetic heresy that Jesus did not possess a real physical body of flesh & blood (even as the Apostle John warned against such in 2 John 1:7). So when Jesus spoke speaking of the bread & wine, "this is My Bodythis is My Blood of the New Testament", these fathers would show & confirm with the Church that from the very Mouth of Jesus, He affirmed His physical presence & not some phantom-like appearance as declared by the heretics.
So, it was not only to combat heresy alone, but also to affirm their beliefs in the symbolic nature of the elements, did those fathers also declare; as Tertullian did, "Having taken the bread and given it to His disciples, Jesus made it His own body, by saying, 'This is My body', that is, the SYMBOL of My body. There could not have been a symbol, however, unless there was first a true body. An empty thing or phantom is incapable of a symbol. He (Jesus) likewise, when mentioning the cup and making the new covenant to be sealed 'in His blood,' affirms the reality of His body. For no blood can belong to a body that is not a body of flesh" (Against Marcion, 4.40). Though I'm sure there were also others of the faith who espoused the actual substance change in the elements.
Anyway, this has been a good discussion, as we share how we understand God's Word, and of course, in all our readings, we must be open to the Spirit's enlightening Work in us. Blessings.
It seems from what I have read that the early church believed the account and words of Jesus at the Last Supper literally along with what Jesus said in John 6 concerning eating his body, the bread that came down from heaven, co paring His body to the manna in the wilderness that sustained the Israelites. This was the prevailing view in church history until early in the 1500's.
An interesting story is that of Luther debating Zwingli in his usual polemic and strong debating style on this topic. Zwingli was promoting the memorial view, which was a novel view at the time, and Luther was holding to the real presence of Jesus in with and under the bread and wine (the bread and wine did not change) but Jesus did come in an unexplainable way to be actually Present in the partaking of the bread and wine in the service. While debating with Zwingli, Luther carved early in the the words "This IS MY body" in the table before them (or similar words, but in Latin) to emphasize how literally and concretely he believed the Lord's Presence is in the communion rite. This gives us the strength of this viewpoint in the history of the church. From Zwingli, the teaching of communion being a commemoration entered the view of Christian churches and believers from that time on.
Can any of us truly know what Jesus meant by His words or by instituting this rite? We can try to interpret the best we are able to do and look all the way back to people such as Ignatius of Antioch, who was born in 110 A.D. to see that the supper was considered to be partaking of Jesus' body and blood. For me, I admit to God that I do not fully understand what all He does and intends in His children partaking of communion, yet I avow to Him that I believe that I will receive in communion the benefits He places in the taking of it for and to me. I do think we are told to do it as a memorial, as Jesus' words say, but He also identified the bread and wine as His body and blood.
But in Jesus time those killings were done on the 14th, obviously due to the huge number of killings to be done by the priests in the Temple (and not in their houses as initially). Flavius Josephus in his Jewish wars, Book IV, chapter 9, par 6 writes, "So these High-priests, upon the coming of that feast which is called the passover, when they slay their sacrifices, from the ninth hour (3pm) till the eleventh (5pm)..."
There were also many other changes through time since the exit of the Israelites from Egypt. God commaned that they eat the meal in a rush, not sitting, but later they sat on tables and many other.
But said before John in his gospel disagrees and places the passover meal that Jesus had a day earlier, on the 13th, which actually must be the right date.
Anyway, all that just for information. So we disagree whether that supper was a pasover meal or not, but we agree on the date. We also disagree whether in the Lord's supper the bread and the wine were litterally or symbolic meant to be. But grape fruit instead of wine? No thanks, I will not take that. Those are churches who believe that christians must not drink alcohol at all so they use other liquids than wine, some use coca cola.
Thanks brother. GBU
My opinion is that it is clear that Jesus ate the passover meal with His disciples (a day earlier as John writes in his gospel). This is what I get from the scrippure. Matthew 26:17-20, Mark 14:13-17, Luke 22:1-13.
The strange thing is that all three call it the first day of the unleaved bread. Luke 22:7, Mark 26:17, Matthew 26:17.
Lets read Matthew 26:17, "Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover?" and Mark adds " And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover..."
We know that the lambs were killed on the 14th of Nissan and the next day, the 15th, was the first day of the feast of the unleaved bread. So it seems that the evangelists got it wrong? The most probable explanation that I have read is that during Jesus' time that feast became an 8 day feast instead of a seven day feast (as God commanded to Israelites in Egypt) and the 14th of Nissan was also included in the feast. The Jewish historian Flavius Josephus who wtote about the Jewish revolution against Romans in 70AD and who lived in Jerusalem during all those events writes in his history "Whence it is, that, in memory of the want we were then in, we keep a feast for EIGHT days; which is called the feast of Unleavened-bread", Antiquities of Jews, Book II, chapter 15, paragraph 1. So it seems that during Jesus' time the 14th of Nissan was included in the feast so it became an 8 day feast.
Another change that was made untill Jesus time is that although God commanded that the lambs must be killed after the sunset (so on the 15th of Nissan) as Deuteronomy 16:6 says, "But at the place which the LORD thy God shall choose to place his name in, there thou shalt sacrifice the passover at even, at the going down of the sun (15th of Nissan), at the season that thou camest forth out of Egypt." that was changed later on.
Ephesians 2:2 - Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, and secondly, according to the prince of the power of the air, which is Satan, the spirit that is now working, or energizing in the children of "the" disobedience:
There's a definite article with the word obedience. It is the specific disobedience, the disobedience to God. So, the prince and power of the air is energizing the children of disobedience, the same way it did us.
Ephesians 2:12 - That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
That phrase "without God" in the Greek is ATHEOS where we get the word atheist from. ATHEOS is a compound Greek word, A=Without, and Theos=God. Every person that's not saved is an atheist. They're without God! A person can believe in God, they can go to church religiously, they can read the bible and look and act like everyone else in the church and still not be born of God's Spirit. That person is still considered an Atheist by the literal definition of the word.
Ephesians 2:14 - For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
For he is our peace, and it is interesting that the word peace here has the definite article. He is the peace. Peace is a person, not a feeling. The word itself, EIRENE, it means to be united. When you're at peace with somebody, you're at one with them.
Ephesians 1:10 - That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
That in the dispensation, the explanation of this mystery, it gives us a little introduction. We won't get the mystery until Chapter 3 Verse 6. That in the dispensation of the fulness of times, God might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
Right now, there is a sifting process going on. Christ has been set above all things. There are those who are lining up with Christ and submitting to Him, and there are others who are not. God's plan is to make one body, one group worldwide, past, present, and future, who will be called up to Christ. He's picking out for Himself a people for Himself.
The word dispensation means administration. You've probably heard that doctrine too, the doctrine of dispensation. OIKONOMIA is the Greek word for economy. That's the Greek word that's used here for this dispensation. So, he says the reason why God has made the mystery of His will known at this time is so that He can gather up, in the future of ministration, in the fullness of times, that is when everything's been fulfilled, that He might gather together in one, all things in Christ both in heaven and upon the earth.
Ephesians 1:17 - That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you, literally, a spirit of wisdom and revelation, literally, in the full knowledge of him:
Ephesians 1:7 - In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
In whom (that is in Christ), we have redemption through his blood, that is, the forgiveness of sins. So, redemption equals the forgiveness of sins. And this again is on the basis of according to the riches of his grace;
According to the wealth of God's grace, He provides this for us. The word redemption means to purchase out of the marketplace. They used to line up slaves down at the markets, and people would come down specifically to get a slave. They would buy one. They would purchase him out of the marketplace.
That's what redemption means. Not only do we have forgiveness of sins, but that forgiveness comes through His blood, and it was through His blood that He purchased us. Some believers either forget, or don't realize what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 that our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, which you have from God, for you were bought with a price. He owns us. We've been purchased. That's why when we get to Verse 14, when the Holy Spirit seals us, He's waiting for the day that He comes for His possession. You see, He bought us. He owns us!
Ephesians 1:8 - Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
The word prudence means insight. He has given us the ability to see and understand spiritual things. It's interesting that the word prudence gives us understanding. Many believers have understanding, but wisdom is the application of that understanding.
In other words, I can train my mind to memorize the bible where if you just mention a word that is found in the bible, I would start quoting scriptures. But that's not necessarily wisdom. Wisdom is to be able to see and know and have the realization of that truth working in your life. It's not something we claim. It's something that's going on! He abounds towards us in wisdom and insight.
Ephesians 1:2 - Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
The normal greeting by Paul, Grace be to you, and peace. Grace (CHARIS) is the greeting to the Greeks, peace (SHALOM) is the greeting to the Jews. But it's not the human greeting. He's saying grace and peace to you from God. May God's grace and God's peace be with you, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
Before I continue, I would like to share with you that Ephesians 1:3-14 in the Greek text is all one sentence. And that's a very important piece of information in deciphering some of the things that we wrestle with from this text.
Ephesians 1:3 - Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
He says blessed be, and notice the word "be" is in italics. Usually when it is a present statement of fact, the writer will leave the verb out, indicating to us that the word "is" is meant in the text blessed is the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
The word blessed (EULOGEO) is where we get our English word eulogy from. And it literally means to speak well of someone. There are different meanings for the word blessed. For instance, in Matthew Chapter 5 in the Sermon on the Mount, all of those principles begin with the word blessed or bless-ed. That's the word MAKARIOS and it means to be filled with the fullness of something.
This word blessed used here means to speak well of. What he's saying is the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ is well spoken of. You'll notice that when we find ourselves in difficult times, we begin to question God, even to His face.
(Ephesians Part 1): Written to the church in Ephesus, the Roman capital of Asia.
Ephesians 1:1 - Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
Where it says, "by the will of God," it is literally through the will of God. It wasn't Paul's will or choice. It was by God's will that he be commissioned as an apostle.
The term "in Ephesus" is not found in the older manuscripts. It's blank, which causes us to conclude along with the style of the letter that this letter was a circulation letter which began in Ephesus. Everything in the book of Ephesians applies to every believer. So, it's not to a specific problem or issue in the city of Ephesus. This is a presentation and an establishment for every believer in Christ.
Please notice what he calls them. He says to the saints who are in Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus. The words saints and faithful have one definite article for both words. The definite article is the word "the." So, saints and faithful describe the same people. The word saint means to be set apart. It is a position, not a performance. Once the Holy Spirit or Spirit of Christ comes into my life, I am set apart. And that's what the word saint means. And that whole process is called sanctification which is the verb form of the adjective saint.
Now the word faithful is an adjective that describes people who are consistently under the persuasion and influence of God's faith. Remember that faith is given to us by God. So, to the saints in Ephesus and to the faithful in Christ Jesus, not to Him, but in Him!
Thank you for your message. I know this is a late response, but I have been away from here for a couple of days focusing on my Ephesian study. We do agree in part but not on everything. We agree that the bread and cup were symbolic of Jesus' body and blood, not His literal body and blood. What we differ on is whether or not the Last Supper was a Passover meal. This is one of those topics that has been debated for a long time. There are multiple views. From my studies, I hold that it was a Passover meal, but I am not claiming to be right or wrong on this one my brother.
Again, thank you for the things you have shared.
God Bless!!!
Part 1
As we see in Matthew 26:17 and Mark 14:10, they say when they kill the Passover (lamb). Luke 22:7 also says when the Passover must be killed. This is on Passover day, the 14th when they killed the lambs. The 15th, the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, is the Sabbath, not the 14th. The 14th is a preparation day, just like a Friday is for the weekly Saturday.
There are no restrictions on the 14th, Passover Day, the day Jesus was crucified, Joesph could buy or prepare whatever he wanted, before sunset that day. That is why we see they wanted to get Jesus in the tomb before sunset because the next day is the first day of Unleavened Bread is a holy convocation/Sabbath day
In Luke 22:15 Jesus is telling them He desired to eat this Passover, but in the next verse, He says He will not eat it anymore. He said this because He knew He would be crucified that same day, the 14th Passover Day. He would be dead and placed in the tomb before they ate the Passover the next night.
On the 14th, the Lord's Supper, the garden, the arrest, the high priest, Pilate, was crucified, and He died at 3 PM, about 3-4 hours before sunset. The Passover Lambs were killed at even, which would be the afternoon when the sun was going down. Jesus was placed in the tomb before sunset and after sunset, it was the 15th, the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, this is when they ate the Passover meal.
Only the priests could catch the blood of the Passover lambs and put it on the altar and the Levites would clean the lambs. In the morning after the Last Supper, the priests took Jesus to Pilate they would not go in, John 18:28 they would be defiled and could not catch the blood of the lambs that would be killed later that day the same day Jesus was crucified, the 14th Passover day.
I hope this makes sense and not too repetitive.
See part 2
Part 2,
On the Lord's Supper, this is the only thing Jesus said to do in remembrance of Him. The elements used to represent Christ's body and blood are bread and wine. Some churches I have gone to use wine and some use grape juice this is debatable.
My understanding is the language used to describe the Lord's Supper in Scripture is symbolic. It is a memorial that keeps us in memory of what Jesus did for us the bread and wine symbolize our spiritual unity with Jesus' body and blood that He gave for us and by doing this we honor Jesus.
In Corinthians, these people were used to pagan feasts eating meat sacrificed to idols and getting drunk. I feel this is why Paul was so harsh because of the meaning of the Lord's table, and they cannot do both. Jesus died to save us from sin if we memorialize His death in the Lord's Supper, we must know the importance of doing away with sin in our lives.
I may be wrong, but I feel they did this as part of the gospel and feel the Lord's Supper is a time to be thankful and remember how Jesus suffered and sacrificed for us, a time for forgiveness, and a time for eagerly waiting for His return.
Thanks, sorry for the delay brother, I hope this is what you were looking for.
God bless,
RLW