The original manuscripts were written in perhaps, proto-Hebrew by Moses or the Hebrew that the Jews knew going into captivity, Aramaic, and Greek. The Septuagint was a Greek translation of the Old Testament Hebrew Torah. Most of the people of the time of the writing of the original writings would have understood what was being said in these languages as they were either their mother tongue or a learned language. In the time that the KJV, and other protestant translations were made, the Latin Vulgate was the common Bible used in the church up until the Reformation when Luther and Calvin translated the Latin Bible into their native tongues. Some in England also translated what manuscripts that were available at that time into an English version that was written in the English of that time period. Very few people in England in the early 1600's spoke nor understood Hebrew or Greek or even Latin. There was not a great amount of literature available to be read by common folk at that time in most instances anyway.
And today, very few of us in English speaking countries can read or speak Greek or Hebrew. So how can any of us know for certain if the translators did their work accurately as compared to the manuscripts that were available at the time of the translation.
If most of the people of the U.S. and Europe spoke Greek, we would have a Greek translation made in the early 1600's. Would King James Only folks say that such a Greek translation was accurate, infallible, and re-inspired like they do with the English translation of the KJV? The Greek translation would be even more accurate to those who can read and understand Greek!
There are millions upon millions of non-English speaking Christians who read the Bible in their own language or one they can read and understand that is not English. Are they learning from corrupt versions because they are not the KJV in English? I think not!
Thank you! Something I think we must keep in mind is that the KJV is a translation, meaning the translators had to translate from something. If they were inspired by God to put forth a perfect translation superior to all others, and the only one that should be used and trusted, you would think the translators might have at least hinted to that.
The KJV translators took what was available to them (the Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic texts), and translated those texts into English after being commissioned King James I.
As I mentioned in a previous post, I read the KJV. It is my bible of choice, but I know it is not perfect. I trust the KJV, but there are other English translations that I also trust. If I were to make such a claim about the KJV, how do I back that claim up? I can't, unless I take my English text bible, sit down with the Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic texts, and take on the tedious task of doing a word-for-word comparison, beginning with Genesis and ending with Revelation. Otherwise, I can only make such a claim off blind faith, trusting that the translators made no errors.
If one claims that the KJV is infallible and without error, and that all other versions are corrupt, what is their standard in making such a claim? Is the KJV the standard? A KJV Onlyist might say yes. But then the burden of proof must be on them to prove that the translators were infallible, incapable of making any errors in their translation of the texts they had available.
If there are differences between the KJB translation, and the original languages and texts, are we to trust the original texts, or are we to believe that the KJV is correct, and the Hebrew and Greek are wrong?
Hi Bennyhkje: A little offense taken, but that's ok. I believe you are a very intelligent, man of intellect and I understand why you wouldn't want to listen to a woman of "nonsense" that believes the KJB bible was written By God, so I will be silent, for you. Thank You for the discussions we have had. I have enjoyed them. God Bless :)
Your welcome and I will take your lead and roll over, also, after this response.
"I will state that it is infallable as to doctrinal matters ..... When one manuscript is chosen over another there MAY be a clear indication error occurred but in other cases we can't say other versions are wrong either." You don't seem to understand or else believe that when God canonizes His word it is in a righteous and complete way. God doesn't do this so that some parts are right and some wrong so they need to be corrected, added too or erased according to man's arrogance. If we can't trust all of it we
can't trust any of it. Do we trust and have faith in God's omniscience and omnipotence spirit or don't we?
As far as the Apocrypha goes, this is just a side-step to ignore the corrupt verses I included, which, you did not respond to. The Apocrypha was always understood by Christians of that day that it was not a canonized book and, therefore, it was advised to read in private, to not preach from it. I believe, the Lord allowed it for a while to help separated the wheat (Protestantism) from the chaff (Catholicism). It is still in their bible.
The example I gave in Rev. 13:8 is just one of a myriad of ridiculous to serious changes the new versions, written by man, are riddled with. I know you probably won't', but if you were to do a comparison of even just a few of the over 200 new English versions available today, you would understand this belief and see the differences yourself. You can get a list of the particular verses to compare online. You don't have to pay any attention to what is said about these changes, just get the list of verses and versions and compare them yourself. I really hope you haven't done this already, and are still promoting the new versions?
I hope we can have continued discussions other then this one. I enjoy reading your comments. God Bless :)
Actually the Dead Sea Scrolls include many of the Apocrypha or as others call them Deuterocanonical Books. A bit less than half of the books found there are from the Apocrypha.
Also in the New Testament, in the epistle of Jude we can find stories from books that both Christians and Jews rejected as fake. One is the incident about Moses' dead body and the other the incident with Enoch. Both of those stories can not be found in the Bible. That shows that at that time things were a bit fluid and since there wasn't any canon established yet, people were reading all sort of religious books. That is why those Apocrypha were included in the Septuagint which means that they were read by Jews at that time. A lot later both Christians and Jews canonised their scriptures.
Dreams are outside the will of man. Man has no power in himself to write history any more than choose his dreams or the script for what he sees in his REM state. Dreams are arranged according to the divine Will shaping all events so what God looks for is faith,- the DNA of God, 'Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God.(He.11:3). It is the quality unseen characteristic of divine pedigree.
Those who doubt the Virgin birth have no clue as they apply their rational mind for what is purely spiritual. God had revealed to Isaiah of virgin birth 'The virgin shall herself conceive and bear a Son '(Is.7:14) . It is the task of the Spirit to arrange matters so the Angel visits Mary and reveal the birth of her son. Simultaneously he also visits Joseph in a dream. Matt.1:20). In the revolt of Miriam and Aaron against Moses God intervenes and tells, "Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the Lord will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream (Nu.12:6)".It is thus the Sprit sets up dreams and visions on a need-to-know basis. On the other the Will of God is perfect requiring no correction whatsoever. So in Trinity the third office is about the time aspect .
We were foreknown by Him and events so arranged each of us to confess his Son as the Savior. It is also validated in the birth of Jesus that Palestine was under the Roman rule so crucifixion foretold by prophets would occur accordingly.
The kingdom of heaven is compared to a net cast into the sea. We may assume it as dragnet, which considering the area to be scoured must be of infinite size. The Son of man deputes angels to gather the good and throw away the bad. It is not difficult to imagine it is about judgment by which God shall have the good to himself as in the case of the Parable of the tares. Basically the kingdom of heaven distinguishes two groups of people, namely children of light and children of wrath. (See entry under W/ word-wide web)
When Jesus of Nazareth assembled his disciples he had assured Peter and Andrew them that,". Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men(Matt.4:19)", in the sense the Word separates the children of light and of wrath.
In the parable we find the waters mentioned. The waters speak of the world. "But the wicked are like the tossing sea, which cannot rest, whose waves cast up mire and mud (Is.57:20)". In eternity no more sea shall be found (Rev.21:1)
In the Book of Genesis we read of several separations. (See entry under A-Abstract)
These separations shall culminate in the inauguration of new heaven and new earth. As promised by Jesus the word-wide web serves as a dragnet. Jesus called his disciples as his associates to draw the catch to the shore. "Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away." (Matt,13:48) (See under the Rule of Three-principle of Association)
"Balaam's donkey didn't have the KJV either." Brother Spencer, that is a rather humorous visual, but good point. God can speak to us with or without the written word. We are blessed to have His spoken word in written form to study from, but if every bible somehow disappeared, God's Spirit will still speak to us in some other way. I'm not sure if you have read the introduction to the 1611 KJB that can be found on this website, but it is a very good read. The translators were not KJB only and never claimed to be infallible, nor their translation to be infallible. There is nothing found in the KJB that states that it is the only bible to be trusted.
I think most of us here read the King James Bible and would agree that it is a very good translation. But it is a translation, and as you say, no translation is infallible! And many would probably agree that there are some corrupt versions out there. But there are also other good translations that can be trusted the same!
32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
I haven't said or done anything or stopped anyone from entering in God's church or believing in Jesus to be saved!
Most of our short comings in the word of God is probably in the area of faulty hermeneutics and a lack of taking in the whole counsel of God's scripture.
If the KJV or any other translation was the only one available there would still be much error.
The error is in man!
.
It's nothing wrong with the seed, It's the ground where the issue often is found.
God's message of any doctrine doesn't hang on one verse.
If you removed John 3:16 from the word of God would you loose It's message?
YOU SHOULDN'T!
Don't doesn't have a problem with a blood tipped ear and eyes that see.
The word and the work of the Holyspirit is infallible
John 3:16 is spreaded broadly throughout the bible.
"FOR GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD, We don't solely depend on Jn 3:16 to tell us that!
"THAT HE GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON,"
We don't solely depend on Jn 3:16 to tell us that!
THAT WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH IN HIM SHOULD NOT PERISH, BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE. We don't solely depend on Jn 3:16 to tell us that!
I use the king James Bible however it's not perfect but don't let that get in the way!!
I am going to roll over after this last attempt to answer your question.
First; again we need to understand that the KJV was closest to the OLDER renditions of Geneva and Tyndale. Again the earliest edition in 1611 had the Apocrypha which was NOT inspired for 50 years or so and in this country apparently until the mid 1800s.
I will state that it is infallable as to doctrinal matters. For instance all but one or two books are in the Dead Sea scrolls from the 66 in our Bible; but other extrabiblical stuff was left out. We cannot say the same for a few words different (even KJV will state that one manuscript is slightly different as an option in it's own commentary and there may be a couple other cases when other manuscripts have a section present or missing.) When one manuscript is chosen over another there MAY be a clear indication error occurred but in other cases we can't say other versions are wrong either.
Finally; the issue in Revelation is adding new scripture AFTER Revelation or deliberately adding or subtracting from Revelation in particular but also indicating not doing violence deliberately to scripture after the Word is complete post Revelation. Such a manipulation is CLEAR in things such as the Passion Translation and the versions that cults have (such as the Jehovah's Witness Bible). That is different than say a historical statement (which BTW is needed to understand the Feast of Dedication which Jesus celebrated (i.e. Hanukkah) which is NOT in either Testament of the Bible except there and to understand it we need to read from nonbiblical sources. Facts can be scriptural or nonscriptural as God uses all things for His glory.
One can argue that God wouldn't allow error in numbers taken in a census or other like statistics but discrepancies appear to exist even within different passages in KJV which again usually can be explained with the details missing or added in another section.
Mark 8:30 is one of several verses indicating Christ told people including the Disciples NOT to tell anyone who He was (namely; the Son of God). He spoke in Parables to hide things from all except those called and chosen (see Matthew 13:10).
When we survey the narrative of the Gospels it leaves us dumbfounded as to how anyone could not realize who Christ was. After all John the Baptist after baptizing a large amount of the entire population including the Pharisees warning them of who was to come identified Christ ( John 1:32 and recorded in Luke 3:22 as being accompanied by a voice from heaven). Only the Spirit could reveal this truth as we see in Matthew 16:17.
There are several reasons for this blindness. One is the god of this world who is mentioned as blinding men to the truth as illustrated in 2 Corinthians 4:4. The second was in the hidden counsels of God more than likely (See Deut. 29:29). If the wicked knew who He was they would have stopped it because it would have led to their guilt in the act and He would inevitably be Resurrected. Satan also may have not been involved because it would mean His defeat as prophesied in Genesis 3:15 (although he is insane enough to ignore what he probably should have known). Israel should have recognized that the suffering servant would also come back as conquering king. They would have waited until He established that Kingdom on earth without having a heart to truly worship Him; reminiscent of the group who finally rebels at the end of the Millennium period.
We need to squarely face this fact in terms of how the unregenerate view Christ. Any affinity one may have for Jesus apart from the grace of God bringing repentance is from a false Christ in our imaginations which inevitably brings a works based attempt at salvation or considering Him a great teacher or Prophet as was the case of those in Matthew 16:14. Church is the congregation of the Holy not a social club for comfort.
"Surely it's better to talk about what we are reading , which book ? What do we think about it ? Any questions about it etc . Let's help each other out and talk about the Truth , the actual Word and what it means to us . Much more fun than going round in
circles " I'm sorry I guess I put to much into this and misunderstood your meaning. I apologize. God Bless :)
I love this verse. It is such a good benediction to use in so many circumstances. So glad God gave Paul this way to bless others. His own words for us to use to call God's favor upon those we love. I don't think we can say things better than God can!
I really like Genesis because chapters 1-2:4 gives us the whole story of the creation and the incredible God who did this. People who would rather believe they came from a soppy pool of acid on a rock instead of our wonderful, magnificent omnipotent God are so foolish. I know it is because a pool of soppy gunk doesn't demand anything of them but it doesn't love them unconditionally and promise an unimageable "expected end" Jer. 29:11 like our God does. It's a bad life living for yourself, even if you don't believed in evolution.
When I was growing up in the Catholic Church I always thought Davie was the son of Solomon because Solomon was aways presented to me as an old man and David was a young man. It wasn't until I started reading the scriptures for myself, (never read them when I was a Catholic, at that time it was not "encouraged") that I realized my mistake. It made me laugh.
I do think of the story of David, his sin and repentance, as a wonderful way God has revealed to us how so loving and forgiving He is toward His children. David was an adulterer, deceiver and murderer but because he was agonizingly remorse and repentant God forgave him, set him back on the right path to being a man after His own heart.
"that doctrinally we don't need to concern ourselves with error" We don't have to concern our selves if what we read is wrong doctrinally! This is crazy. God's word is INFALLIBLE. The KJB has no errors, no matter how you spin it, and we need to stay away from "errors in doctrine" for the sake of our souls.
So you take this to mean that John was telling to be on the look out for these other writings and that they can be trusted to be from the Holy Ghost? Interesting.
Why is it so hard to accept that God in His omniscience had control of the writing, copying and translation of His word from the beginning to be sure we have the finished KJB today being the only infallible truth, the ONLY one written by the Holy Ghost? God is a powerful, almighty God and there is no place with Him for those whose corrupt His Word. Rev. 22:18-19 "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."
Just a couple of examples.
Rev. 13: 8 KJB "And I beheld, and heard an ANGEL (my emphasis) flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!"
NIV "As I watched, I heard an EAGLE that was flying in midair call out in a loud voice: "Woe! Woe! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth, because of the trumpet blasts about to be sounded by the other three angels!"
Mark 15: 28 NIV omits this verse which speaks of a prophecy of the Messiah being fulfilled by Jesus. This dilutes the deity of Christ.
Luke 4:8 KJB "And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve."
NIV Jesus answered, 'It is written: 'Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.' " Again, dilutes the deity of Christ and His power to rebuke satan.
"if you use them, you trust them to be accurate, even if what they say is different from what God's translation says," All scripture is God breathed" This is circular reasoning. If you use them they must be right and they are right because you use them so they must all be God breathed. "God breathed" is not referring to the 200+ English translations out there. The changes made may be insignificant to you but not to God. Rev 22: 18-19 "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." A very profound WARNING. God had His hand in the copying and translating of His Word from the very beginning, to be sure it remained pure, to the time of the finished KJB which He always intended for modern man to have. The authors were directed by the Holy Spirit totally. God's omniscience does this. Rev. 13:8 the KJB talks about an angle, in the NIV the word angle was changed to EAGLE. Luke 4:8 KJB "And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve." NIV "Jesus answered, 'It is written: 'Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.'" This dilutes the Omnipotent attribute of Christ. Mark 15:28 NIV omits this verse which speaks of a prophecy of the Messiah being fulfilled by Jesus. This, also, dilutes the deity of Christ. There are so, so many more of these examples and they do matter to our understanding of what God's true word teaches us. As believers we must be able to trust the "Inspired Word of God" to the fullest. Reading the TRUE word of God can lead to the salvation of a soul but reading false doctrine certainly won't. God Bless :)
I believe that homosexuals, apart from being a "fashion" among people nowadays, there are people who turn to the same sex relationships because they had a troubled time when growing up as kids or teens. Others, I also believe, are born like that. All that is the result of sin in humanity, they are the consequences of the way people rejected God and the way He asks us to walk in life and they followed their own sinful ways. People are moving fast further and further away from God in these times and sin and its consequences are becoming bigger and bigger. That is why we should not be hostile to those people but feel sorry for them and talk to them about the freedom that God offers to people from their passions and anything else that has tied them. People are trying to quench their thirst by drinking dirty waters instead of coming to the Lord and to the water He gives to us. We don't really expect that things will become better, the scriptures say that people will become more sinful in the end times but I believe so God's Power will become more evident not only to us but to all people. We have a fight to fight, a road to walk till the end and a faith to keep, and what do we expect? As Paul says the crown of righteousness which the Lord will give to all those who wish His presence. GBU
GiGi, during the last 10 years a lot has changed in my country. 10 years ago if one said that such laws could ever exist here everybody would moke them. But 10 years later here we are. There has been an aggressive propaganda mainly by the press for the "human rights" of those people for many years and they have been trying hard to change people's minds. Greeks are generally conservative people when it comes to family issues but things are changing rapidly. The spirit of the antichrist propagates fast through this continent. Such things sre widely accepted among Europeans but not by all of them. I think only about 20 out of more than 40 countries in the EE have voted such laws, for the time being. But there is a huge pressure from Brussels to all governments for changing their laws to match some common European laws.
Here we expect that the Orthodox church will resist since it is the only church that the crowds with them. But they seemed very tolerant so far and they got up by surprise, they weren't expecting for it. They should had preached stronghly against such things all those years but it seems they were sort of sleeping and they are waking up now. We, the reborn christians, are that nany and can not influence things in a wordly way but the One who is inside us is more powerful than the one who is controlling the world. We have our prayers to God. But it is very sad to see people moving further and further away from God. We pray that the Lord will do marvelous things among us in the near future. It is the end times and as many as possible must be saved before everything finishes. Thanks, may God blesses the USA as it seems it is the only Western country where christians are still an important part of the whole population. GBU
"These two instances when the Will of God "The Now aspect) connects with the now of man there could be moment of perplexity but God sees to it that His children are left in in doubt. "
It should be read as "These two instances when the Will of God (The Now aspect) connects with the now of man there could be moment of perplexity but God sees to it that His children are not left in doubt."
Faith is one and doubt is denial of it without having any credential to dispute the word of God. There is nothing we have brought of ourselves to doubt without cutting off the very ground of existence. "Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity."(2 Ti.2:19)
Where names of people are called before the foundation of the world we have instances of doubt as in the case of Mary, "And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be. And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God."( Luke 1:29-30).
Simon Peter had doubts which God was quick to dispel, "Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate." (Ac.10:17) These two instances when the Will of God "The Now aspect) connects with the now of man there could be moment of perplexity but God sees to it that His children are left in in doubt. The Spirit sent Evangelist Philip to clear the passage for the Ethiopian eunuch. "For those doubters who still harp on their pet peeves the Spirit says, "But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."(2 Co.4:3-4)
Again, well stated.
The original manuscripts were written in perhaps, proto-Hebrew by Moses or the Hebrew that the Jews knew going into captivity, Aramaic, and Greek. The Septuagint was a Greek translation of the Old Testament Hebrew Torah. Most of the people of the time of the writing of the original writings would have understood what was being said in these languages as they were either their mother tongue or a learned language. In the time that the KJV, and other protestant translations were made, the Latin Vulgate was the common Bible used in the church up until the Reformation when Luther and Calvin translated the Latin Bible into their native tongues. Some in England also translated what manuscripts that were available at that time into an English version that was written in the English of that time period. Very few people in England in the early 1600's spoke nor understood Hebrew or Greek or even Latin. There was not a great amount of literature available to be read by common folk at that time in most instances anyway.
And today, very few of us in English speaking countries can read or speak Greek or Hebrew. So how can any of us know for certain if the translators did their work accurately as compared to the manuscripts that were available at the time of the translation.
If most of the people of the U.S. and Europe spoke Greek, we would have a Greek translation made in the early 1600's. Would King James Only folks say that such a Greek translation was accurate, infallible, and re-inspired like they do with the English translation of the KJV? The Greek translation would be even more accurate to those who can read and understand Greek!
There are millions upon millions of non-English speaking Christians who read the Bible in their own language or one they can read and understand that is not English. Are they learning from corrupt versions because they are not the KJV in English? I think not!
Thank you! Something I think we must keep in mind is that the KJV is a translation, meaning the translators had to translate from something. If they were inspired by God to put forth a perfect translation superior to all others, and the only one that should be used and trusted, you would think the translators might have at least hinted to that.
The KJV translators took what was available to them (the Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic texts), and translated those texts into English after being commissioned King James I.
As I mentioned in a previous post, I read the KJV. It is my bible of choice, but I know it is not perfect. I trust the KJV, but there are other English translations that I also trust. If I were to make such a claim about the KJV, how do I back that claim up? I can't, unless I take my English text bible, sit down with the Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic texts, and take on the tedious task of doing a word-for-word comparison, beginning with Genesis and ending with Revelation. Otherwise, I can only make such a claim off blind faith, trusting that the translators made no errors.
If one claims that the KJV is infallible and without error, and that all other versions are corrupt, what is their standard in making such a claim? Is the KJV the standard? A KJV Onlyist might say yes. But then the burden of proof must be on them to prove that the translators were infallible, incapable of making any errors in their translation of the texts they had available.
If there are differences between the KJB translation, and the original languages and texts, are we to trust the original texts, or are we to believe that the KJV is correct, and the Hebrew and Greek are wrong?
Just a thought!
"I will state that it is infallable as to doctrinal matters ..... When one manuscript is chosen over another there MAY be a clear indication error occurred but in other cases we can't say other versions are wrong either." You don't seem to understand or else believe that when God canonizes His word it is in a righteous and complete way. God doesn't do this so that some parts are right and some wrong so they need to be corrected, added too or erased according to man's arrogance. If we can't trust all of it we
can't trust any of it. Do we trust and have faith in God's omniscience and omnipotence spirit or don't we?
As far as the Apocrypha goes, this is just a side-step to ignore the corrupt verses I included, which, you did not respond to. The Apocrypha was always understood by Christians of that day that it was not a canonized book and, therefore, it was advised to read in private, to not preach from it. I believe, the Lord allowed it for a while to help separated the wheat (Protestantism) from the chaff (Catholicism). It is still in their bible.
The example I gave in Rev. 13:8 is just one of a myriad of ridiculous to serious changes the new versions, written by man, are riddled with. I know you probably won't', but if you were to do a comparison of even just a few of the over 200 new English versions available today, you would understand this belief and see the differences yourself. You can get a list of the particular verses to compare online. You don't have to pay any attention to what is said about these changes, just get the list of verses and versions and compare them yourself. I really hope you haven't done this already, and are still promoting the new versions?
I hope we can have continued discussions other then this one. I enjoy reading your comments. God Bless :)
No, I have never read the introduction to the 1611 KJB but I will do so.
Thanks and God bless!
Actually the Dead Sea Scrolls include many of the Apocrypha or as others call them Deuterocanonical Books. A bit less than half of the books found there are from the Apocrypha.
Also in the New Testament, in the epistle of Jude we can find stories from books that both Christians and Jews rejected as fake. One is the incident about Moses' dead body and the other the incident with Enoch. Both of those stories can not be found in the Bible. That shows that at that time things were a bit fluid and since there wasn't any canon established yet, people were reading all sort of religious books. That is why those Apocrypha were included in the Septuagint which means that they were read by Jews at that time. A lot later both Christians and Jews canonised their scriptures.
Dreams are outside the will of man. Man has no power in himself to write history any more than choose his dreams or the script for what he sees in his REM state. Dreams are arranged according to the divine Will shaping all events so what God looks for is faith,- the DNA of God, 'Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God.(He.11:3). It is the quality unseen characteristic of divine pedigree.
Those who doubt the Virgin birth have no clue as they apply their rational mind for what is purely spiritual. God had revealed to Isaiah of virgin birth 'The virgin shall herself conceive and bear a Son '(Is.7:14) . It is the task of the Spirit to arrange matters so the Angel visits Mary and reveal the birth of her son. Simultaneously he also visits Joseph in a dream. Matt.1:20). In the revolt of Miriam and Aaron against Moses God intervenes and tells, "Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the Lord will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream (Nu.12:6)".It is thus the Sprit sets up dreams and visions on a need-to-know basis. On the other the Will of God is perfect requiring no correction whatsoever. So in Trinity the third office is about the time aspect .
We were foreknown by Him and events so arranged each of us to confess his Son as the Savior. It is also validated in the birth of Jesus that Palestine was under the Roman rule so crucifixion foretold by prophets would occur accordingly.
Matt.13:47-48
The kingdom of heaven is compared to a net cast into the sea. We may assume it as dragnet, which considering the area to be scoured must be of infinite size. The Son of man deputes angels to gather the good and throw away the bad. It is not difficult to imagine it is about judgment by which God shall have the good to himself as in the case of the Parable of the tares. Basically the kingdom of heaven distinguishes two groups of people, namely children of light and children of wrath. (See entry under W/ word-wide web)
When Jesus of Nazareth assembled his disciples he had assured Peter and Andrew them that,". Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men(Matt.4:19)", in the sense the Word separates the children of light and of wrath.
In the parable we find the waters mentioned. The waters speak of the world. "But the wicked are like the tossing sea, which cannot rest, whose waves cast up mire and mud (Is.57:20)". In eternity no more sea shall be found (Rev.21:1)
In the Book of Genesis we read of several separations. (See entry under A-Abstract)
These separations shall culminate in the inauguration of new heaven and new earth. As promised by Jesus the word-wide web serves as a dragnet. Jesus called his disciples as his associates to draw the catch to the shore. "Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away." (Matt,13:48) (See under the Rule of Three-principle of Association)
I think most of us here read the King James Bible and would agree that it is a very good translation. But it is a translation, and as you say, no translation is infallible! And many would probably agree that there are some corrupt versions out there. But there are also other good translations that can be trusted the same!
God Bless!!!
32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
I haven't said or done anything or stopped anyone from entering in God's church or believing in Jesus to be saved!
No translation is infallible.
Most of our short comings in the word of God is probably in the area of faulty hermeneutics and a lack of taking in the whole counsel of God's scripture.
If the KJV or any other translation was the only one available there would still be much error.
The error is in man!
.
It's nothing wrong with the seed, It's the ground where the issue often is found.
God's message of any doctrine doesn't hang on one verse.
If you removed John 3:16 from the word of God would you loose It's message?
YOU SHOULDN'T!
Don't doesn't have a problem with a blood tipped ear and eyes that see.
The word and the work of the Holyspirit is infallible
John 3:16 is spreaded broadly throughout the bible.
"FOR GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD, We don't solely depend on Jn 3:16 to tell us that!
"THAT HE GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON,"
We don't solely depend on Jn 3:16 to tell us that!
THAT WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH IN HIM SHOULD NOT PERISH, BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE. We don't solely depend on Jn 3:16 to tell us that!
I use the king James Bible however it's not perfect but don't let that get in the way!!
God doesn't have a problem conveying his message.
Balaams donkey didn't have the KJV either.
Study the word of God!
It patches itself up.
God bless.
First; again we need to understand that the KJV was closest to the OLDER renditions of Geneva and Tyndale. Again the earliest edition in 1611 had the Apocrypha which was NOT inspired for 50 years or so and in this country apparently until the mid 1800s.
I will state that it is infallable as to doctrinal matters. For instance all but one or two books are in the Dead Sea scrolls from the 66 in our Bible; but other extrabiblical stuff was left out. We cannot say the same for a few words different (even KJV will state that one manuscript is slightly different as an option in it's own commentary and there may be a couple other cases when other manuscripts have a section present or missing.) When one manuscript is chosen over another there MAY be a clear indication error occurred but in other cases we can't say other versions are wrong either.
Finally; the issue in Revelation is adding new scripture AFTER Revelation or deliberately adding or subtracting from Revelation in particular but also indicating not doing violence deliberately to scripture after the Word is complete post Revelation. Such a manipulation is CLEAR in things such as the Passion Translation and the versions that cults have (such as the Jehovah's Witness Bible). That is different than say a historical statement (which BTW is needed to understand the Feast of Dedication which Jesus celebrated (i.e. Hanukkah) which is NOT in either Testament of the Bible except there and to understand it we need to read from nonbiblical sources. Facts can be scriptural or nonscriptural as God uses all things for His glory.
One can argue that God wouldn't allow error in numbers taken in a census or other like statistics but discrepancies appear to exist even within different passages in KJV which again usually can be explained with the details missing or added in another section.
Thanks for taking time to read this.
Agape.
Mark 8:30 is one of several verses indicating Christ told people including the Disciples NOT to tell anyone who He was (namely; the Son of God). He spoke in Parables to hide things from all except those called and chosen (see Matthew 13:10).
When we survey the narrative of the Gospels it leaves us dumbfounded as to how anyone could not realize who Christ was. After all John the Baptist after baptizing a large amount of the entire population including the Pharisees warning them of who was to come identified Christ ( John 1:32 and recorded in Luke 3:22 as being accompanied by a voice from heaven). Only the Spirit could reveal this truth as we see in Matthew 16:17.
There are several reasons for this blindness. One is the god of this world who is mentioned as blinding men to the truth as illustrated in 2 Corinthians 4:4. The second was in the hidden counsels of God more than likely (See Deut. 29:29). If the wicked knew who He was they would have stopped it because it would have led to their guilt in the act and He would inevitably be Resurrected. Satan also may have not been involved because it would mean His defeat as prophesied in Genesis 3:15 (although he is insane enough to ignore what he probably should have known). Israel should have recognized that the suffering servant would also come back as conquering king. They would have waited until He established that Kingdom on earth without having a heart to truly worship Him; reminiscent of the group who finally rebels at the end of the Millennium period.
We need to squarely face this fact in terms of how the unregenerate view Christ. Any affinity one may have for Jesus apart from the grace of God bringing repentance is from a false Christ in our imaginations which inevitably brings a works based attempt at salvation or considering Him a great teacher or Prophet as was the case of those in Matthew 16:14. Church is the congregation of the Holy not a social club for comfort.
circles " I'm sorry I guess I put to much into this and misunderstood your meaning. I apologize. God Bless :)
I love this verse. It is such a good benediction to use in so many circumstances. So glad God gave Paul this way to bless others. His own words for us to use to call God's favor upon those we love. I don't think we can say things better than God can!
God Bless :)
God Bless :)
When I was growing up in the Catholic Church I always thought Davie was the son of Solomon because Solomon was aways presented to me as an old man and David was a young man. It wasn't until I started reading the scriptures for myself, (never read them when I was a Catholic, at that time it was not "encouraged") that I realized my mistake. It made me laugh.
I do think of the story of David, his sin and repentance, as a wonderful way God has revealed to us how so loving and forgiving He is toward His children. David was an adulterer, deceiver and murderer but because he was agonizingly remorse and repentant God forgave him, set him back on the right path to being a man after His own heart.
God Bless :)
God Bless :)
Just a couple of examples.
Rev. 13: 8 KJB "And I beheld, and heard an ANGEL (my emphasis) flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!"
NIV "As I watched, I heard an EAGLE that was flying in midair call out in a loud voice: "Woe! Woe! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth, because of the trumpet blasts about to be sounded by the other three angels!"
Mark 15: 28 NIV omits this verse which speaks of a prophecy of the Messiah being fulfilled by Jesus. This dilutes the deity of Christ.
Luke 4:8 KJB "And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve."
NIV Jesus answered, 'It is written: 'Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.' " Again, dilutes the deity of Christ and His power to rebuke satan.
God Bless :)
I'm such a dizi. LOL
I believe that homosexuals, apart from being a "fashion" among people nowadays, there are people who turn to the same sex relationships because they had a troubled time when growing up as kids or teens. Others, I also believe, are born like that. All that is the result of sin in humanity, they are the consequences of the way people rejected God and the way He asks us to walk in life and they followed their own sinful ways. People are moving fast further and further away from God in these times and sin and its consequences are becoming bigger and bigger. That is why we should not be hostile to those people but feel sorry for them and talk to them about the freedom that God offers to people from their passions and anything else that has tied them. People are trying to quench their thirst by drinking dirty waters instead of coming to the Lord and to the water He gives to us. We don't really expect that things will become better, the scriptures say that people will become more sinful in the end times but I believe so God's Power will become more evident not only to us but to all people. We have a fight to fight, a road to walk till the end and a faith to keep, and what do we expect? As Paul says the crown of righteousness which the Lord will give to all those who wish His presence. GBU
Thank for your support in joining in prayers.
GiGi, during the last 10 years a lot has changed in my country. 10 years ago if one said that such laws could ever exist here everybody would moke them. But 10 years later here we are. There has been an aggressive propaganda mainly by the press for the "human rights" of those people for many years and they have been trying hard to change people's minds. Greeks are generally conservative people when it comes to family issues but things are changing rapidly. The spirit of the antichrist propagates fast through this continent. Such things sre widely accepted among Europeans but not by all of them. I think only about 20 out of more than 40 countries in the EE have voted such laws, for the time being. But there is a huge pressure from Brussels to all governments for changing their laws to match some common European laws.
Here we expect that the Orthodox church will resist since it is the only church that the crowds with them. But they seemed very tolerant so far and they got up by surprise, they weren't expecting for it. They should had preached stronghly against such things all those years but it seems they were sort of sleeping and they are waking up now. We, the reborn christians, are that nany and can not influence things in a wordly way but the One who is inside us is more powerful than the one who is controlling the world. We have our prayers to God. But it is very sad to see people moving further and further away from God. We pray that the Lord will do marvelous things among us in the near future. It is the end times and as many as possible must be saved before everything finishes. Thanks, may God blesses the USA as it seems it is the only Western country where christians are still an important part of the whole population. GBU
"These two instances when the Will of God "The Now aspect) connects with the now of man there could be moment of perplexity but God sees to it that His children are left in in doubt. "
It should be read as "These two instances when the Will of God (The Now aspect) connects with the now of man there could be moment of perplexity but God sees to it that His children are not left in doubt."
Faith is one and doubt is denial of it without having any credential to dispute the word of God. There is nothing we have brought of ourselves to doubt without cutting off the very ground of existence. "Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity."(2 Ti.2:19)
Where names of people are called before the foundation of the world we have instances of doubt as in the case of Mary, "And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be. And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God."( Luke 1:29-30).
Simon Peter had doubts which God was quick to dispel, "Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate." (Ac.10:17) These two instances when the Will of God "The Now aspect) connects with the now of man there could be moment of perplexity but God sees to it that His children are left in in doubt. The Spirit sent Evangelist Philip to clear the passage for the Ethiopian eunuch. "For those doubters who still harp on their pet peeves the Spirit says, "But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."(2 Co.4:3-4)