Thank you again brother for your comments. I would have much trouble equating 1 Peter 1:23-25 ('being born again by the Word of God') with John 3:5 ('one being born of water'): that as you believe, water here represents the Word of God. Maybe, Ephesians 5:26 ('sanctify & cleanse the Church with the washing of water by the Word') might bear some resemblance of the Word to water.
Yet, in both cases, I really can't place such a meaning here, since Jesus was answering the question posed to Him by Nicodemus ('how can a man have a second physical birth?'). And so Jesus answered him, not in some mysterious, confusing way, but clearly, that one's birth onto the Earth can only come in a physical way, but to enter God's Kingdom, man needs to be re-born by God's Spirit & not by human involvement. And of course, Nicodemus did not query this (though he may not have fully understood Jesus' Words), rather went on in verse 9 to ask, "How can these things be?" So, I see that water in John 3:5 equates to the physical/the earthly, & the Spirit to the immaterial/heavenly. And Jesus again confirms this in verse 6, "That which is born of the flesh is flesh (earthly = water/physical birth); and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit (heavenly = Spirit/spiritual birth)." Anyway, I will keep your understanding in mind, if I can find some support in my further readings.
To the rest of your comment, I do find complete agreement, in respect to infant baptism and God's Foreknowledge of those who will respond to the Gospel. GBU.
The King James Version uses Lord because it fortunately is the true translation approved by the Holy Spirit. You did not make mention what verse you have compared, anyway Lord may be JESUS or others biblical personage, as you may know JESUS is the LORD of the lords; who are the others besides JESUS?
The KJV is correct and true, Biblehub is not, and its translation in this specific case is one among others that will be burned with everlasting fire, because Yahweh is the esoteric, and kabbalistic and spiritist name used by the esoteric, and kabbalistic and spiritist Judaism as it was GOD's name, but it is not, it is the name of the father of the Jews- John 8:44KJV-that is their God- 2Thessalonians 2:3-4KJV.
JESUS said: John 8:41-43KJV
41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to JESUS, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even GOD.
42 Jesus said unto them, If GOD were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from GOD(take a look in Hebrews 1:1-4); neither came I of myself, but He sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my Word.
Hebrews 4:12-13KJV
12 For the Word of GOD is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in His sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of Him with whom we have to do. or we must render an account
The dual tragedy and evil of murders and suicide take up almost the same amount of people with the 40000 that are killed with guns each year. Briefly looking at the data; it seems mass shootings are way up. Actually; self inflicted suicide has a much higher mortality rate than those who are shot in gun violence who normally are just injured the majority of the time (exception probably the mass shooting events). In PA where I live the sobering fact is that over 900 annually die of suicide by guns and it is supposed to be 90 percent successful as compared with other methods.
Statistically per capita per 100K the top SIX countries are all island nations. But for sheer numbers Mexico is first; followed by the USA.
Personally my mother probably at least 30 years ago knew two who died by suicide; and I myself was friends with someone who did the same; and vaguely knew about another (both individuals claimed to know the Lord). In the case of my mother one person was gay and things didn't go down well; in the other case the lady felt her ex husband was stalking her.
I am sure all of us have been affected one way or another either personally or with close family or friends with these realities.
Covid was the last thing to kill many; apparently about 40 or 45 died in the nursing home where my current Bible study has been tabled because of the latest; but less lethal outbreak. The danger of the shot is clear too; as one of my friend's cousins died right after taking it (I took the original 2 doses and that was all; guess being as old as the hills it didn't affect me like the young folks.
This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come ( 2 Tim. 3:1 with laundry list in rest of chapter). No one wants to hear it will get worse but Christians because they know the Lord is coming sooner by the day. Let us pray if He will cause a reduction in this; and if not to bring someone to the Lord even now
My friend who is a Pastor just shared with me tonight about a 90 year old church member who realized the error of her ways after he challenged her hypocrisy. After months of not talking with him; He was in tears when she called him and gave the message and now is able to help her with Bible activities in her residence now that the doors of communication are open. He gave me permission to share this; and there is more to the story as to losses in her life and I may share more later. I should point out my friend has spiritual discernment; this isn't his normal mode
That was earlier today. Tomorrow we see in D.C. what is supposed to be a gay pride collaboration where international attendes will visit of up to 3 million people according to official estimates; in addition to what's going on the entire month. Next year is supposed to be the 50th Anniversary edition of this madness. With this depravity it seems impossible for any of them to have 90 years of life until they come to repentance; and truth be told many will not even have half of that time with the suicide rates and self destruction this lifestyle brings. Talk about hypocrisy; if pride was as they claim the chief sin of Sodom based on Ezekiel 16:49-50 and pride comes before a fall ( Prov. 16:18); and that was what caused Lucifer's fall in Isaiah 14; and Ezekiel 28 touting this as the emblem of this perversion just adds to their judgment. Is it any wonder when children and toddlers are brought to events and raised this way that this sin just keeps mushrooming? The real wonder is that we see everyday those who come out of it; thanks to the Lord changing men's hearts.
And that brings me back to my original story. After this lady had almost all her relatives die and she herself became ill; she repented. The same used to be the case with gay people when they lost friends to AIDS. These days there may not be much time before God's destruction in the Tribulation.
Hi S Spencer: If the sin nature is incurable then what is sanctification, how does the Holy Spirit enter into an unclean temple? You may accept the teaching that we are not wholly sanctified until we are raptured ,when God removes it before we enter in, but I don't see how that can be. I believe we can and must lose our sin nature, after salvation, by simply asking God to remove the desire; the want to sin from us and if we are sincere, ready to truly give up our sinful life, then He sanctifies us wholly and removes the nature of Adam from us. The teaching from the KJB, about the infilling of the Holy Ghost, as happened on the day of Pentecost is for all of God's children; His Church. This marvelous blessing and gift from God was meant for the Church until the rapture. Revelations 19:7-8 7) "Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and HIS WIFE HAS MADE HERSELF READY. 8) And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white." Jesus didn't let His gift fade away as if it was only meant for the early church. It started with the 120 members and the blessing has continued and will continue until the rapture. This gift was given to the Church so she will be a "beautiful bride, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing," when Jesus comes for her.The Adamic nature it one big mess of spots and wrinkles. We will still have faults, character weaknesses, according to the dictionary, which we learn to overcome with the help of the Holy Ghost. Faults are NOT sins.
I do totally agree about what you say regarding children being born innocent. No matter what their life is before they have come to knowing right from wrong they are not condemned. God Bless :)
Jesus says have faith and believe, At night or anytime a bad memory comes pray this simply prayer, Jesus help me pause for a second and say Thank You Jesus. Remember faith and believe that he has already helped you.
Also to get the memories out of your head. Read a verse of the bible in the morning when you wake and before you sleep and read the Bible daily. Then your mind will be filled with Gods word!
If you are like me and have a hard time reading there are Bible apps that will read it for you and your mind will be focused on the voice and not your memory.
Some say, look at Abraham, look at Paul, God revealed Himself to them directly like He has not done in other people. Yes but He knew they would accept and obey Him. The same way He revealed Himself to Saul the king (as well to other kings), to Judas, to Balaam, to Demas, to name a few. To the Pharisees and Sadducees that had seen so many miracles but still paid the guards of Jesus' tomb to say that the disciples had stolen His body or they wanted to kill Lazarus together with Jesus because they understood that people would believe to Jesus. So it is not a matter of God's will but a matter of people's response to Him. Others say that if God doesn't grand repentance to people, nobody will repent. This is true but we have to understand how that repentance is granted by God. Not in a "magical" (again) way. Miracles are something that God uses for this purpose. His word is another way. His appearance to one is another way God uses, and so on. Often healings is also another way God uses to soften people's heart.. But again the response is not always acceptance by people.
And something else. There are verses in the scriptures where the word "chosen" in grk has the meaning of "precious, valuable". Like in Matthew 22:14, "For many are called, but few are chosen". Here the proper translation of the grk "eklektos" is precious. Which means that many have been called but few have accepted that invitation and for God they are precious, valuable. It is our response to Him that makes us precious to Him, not a somehow discriminative approach of God whom He selects and whom not.
Sory but I quoted that passage incorrectly. You are right, it says "Except a man be born again...".
As far as my belief in what "water" stands for in John 3:5, is concerned, it means the Word of God. As I said before it is the seed that is sowed by the Sower in all people's heart. When the soil/heart is a good and soft soil then that seed gets inside it and it sprouts, in other words when a heart is soft then the word of God gets inside it and causes repentance and regeneration, 1 Peter 1:23-25 describes that clearly. So without the word of God nothing can be done. I don't agree at all with a "magical" (sorry for the expression, I know many believe it like this) regeneration. There is no possible way that God regenerates infants that most possibly will become atheists afterwards. The idea of predestination the way some believe it leaves me in complete disagreement. If God chooses whom to select and save, then He would have been a racist and discriminative God. But in 1 Timothy 2:2-4 says clearly, " For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;Who will have ALL MEN to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth". So if God wants ALL people to be saved why does He choose some for salvation? Because the whole interpetation of that is wrong, in my opinion. God knows who is going to accept Jesus and had His plans for the salvation of all mankind completed before the foundation of the world. So His choice has to do with our decisions made with our free will. It is obvious in the parable of the Sower and the good seed where Gods tries to plant His seed in every heart. But the result is due to our heart.
Mark 14:41 states And he cometh the third time, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: it is enough, the hour is come; behold, the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners. This is several verses after today's scripture in Mark 14:38.
The indwelling Holy Spirit clearly gave the Apostles newfound courage after not only Peter but all the rest of them scattered; fulfilling the prophecy "smite the Shephard and the sheep will be scattered." ( Matt. 26:31). The 11 remaining Disciples apparently fell asleep multiple times and didn't know what to say; and they didn't heed the warning to pray against temptation.
This frustration on Jesus' part on seeing them short of giving Him strength of consolation in His greatest agony in the Garden ends up being against all of them; something we don't see earlier in His ministry. I could go on with a lengthy description of just how blind they were to Christ's earlier prophecies predicting His death; or their inabililty to realize what Judas was up to; or why He was headed toward Jerusalem. Frankly it is too depressing for me to get into at length. I pray that when other believers are going through life and death issues; at least that we won't shrink back but be a support even risking our lives if necessary.
This should also serve a warning as to how fast crowds will turn from God; especially in the Tribulation. I have gone at length on how today's presentation of the Gospel tends to be lacking repentance as a requisite for salvation; how sin in general is softened; and how counting the cost of being a true disciple is often ignored. Nonetheless even when a true Gospel is offered; there can be some acceptance in times of prosperity; but we should be alert to things changing fast and prepared for many to fall away in these last days as Timothy warned ( 1 Timothy 4:1). Deceiving spirits will come more often I would say to those already"religious" nominal Christians who aren't discerning.
Counting the cost: Persecution brings TRUE unity in the Body of Christ
When the chips are down; and times get hard we will look for any solace in a storm. As with anything; at least as long as a church service as we are used to attending in a building is allowed (which may not be too much longer) what stands the test of time are those who stick closer than a brother ( Prov. 18:24) which is contrasted with those more shallow relationships that persecution will find tends to back away. When someone has a relative martyred for the faith such as a Deacon in my current church it helps put things into perspective; and it is a blessing to see him and his family; where his wife; 3 kids; mother and mother in law are all believers along with someone else they know from their native country (I won't mention where). I met another individual from an African nation who had a number of fellow servants in the Lord martyred when witnessing to surrounding countries on a clandestine mission.
Tough times are unbearable to think about in our own strength; but i will say that they tend to simplify everything; when we aren't so focused on distractions. It is no accident that countries with the highest level of persecution tend to be the places where people spend hours rather than minutes in prayer and services for the Lord as it comes with a high cost; and one never knows if the next service will come to pass. When you have to travel for miles barefoot it makes you appreciate more the fellowship of the saints and the unity thereof.
Less is more in many ways; godliness and contentment is great gain ( 1 Tim. 6:6). Would there be more that would open their homes to Bible study; prayer and going out to evangelize on a regular basis. Such was my experience in the past; for now I am taking care of elderly parents but if He tarries I plan to return to this type of fellowship wherever that may be. Laboring in the fields isn't fun; and costs some time; but builds our faith.
My last posting raised the question where was evidence for persecution for almost all the "famous" preachers of the last century?
It has truly saddened me to see how Billy Graham seemed to sell out in many ways; and to be at all glad that a special star was made for him in Hollywood (at least I think that's where it is) should be a warning signal when he didn't immediately reject such worldly acclaim. The truth is; unless one is truly dangerous to the Kingdom of darkness they won't be much resisted.
I won't mention anyone currently living by name; but there are other celebrities who have museums named after them and who clearly have sold out to the Christian music "industry"; where we see many performing secular music eventually; and a number becoming atheists of late.
Persecution can come in many forms: Should we preach the truth we should expect those under demonic influence or disturbed to bring resistance as I have witnessed myself personally in the past. I also saw a con artist who used flattery and apparently eventually went elsewhere and bamboozled someone to marry him for her money. He was claiming to be a miracle worker sort of person from one of the African nations. We also can expect people to come who are victims of abuse; I have seen this as well with a wife of an abusive alcoholic. We can expect people who need deliverance; I got to witness that as well as well as hearing of a successful one in my church; although sadly someone ELSE I felt ill prepared for and I'm not sure if he ever went through with it. The enemy will use disturbed people to test our fearlessness. There are some things that must be dealt with outside a formal service but we should be ready to have our comfort zones tested; or how will we be ready when real persecution begins and we are jailed or attacked? We all have to ask ourselves are we ready to rely on the Holy Spirit and truly fight offenively against the enemy?
The Holy Spirit: Living out our faith vs. "smoke and mirrors"
I have discussed apparently more than once in Philippians 1 about how many preached out of envy to add to Paul's suffering as no doubt those preaching this way would bring the accusation that Christians truly are unhinged; and not in the way the Lord intends.
God says that He "draws all men to Himself" ( John 12:32) to be accomplished after the Resurrection.
When we see the sideshow that is so often the megachurch power and numbers game; which in reality is usually just "filthy lucre" as a motivation ( Titus 1:11; 1 Tim. 3:3 etc) it kind of reminds us of Judas Iscariot on steroids; everybody out for a buck and willing to pay into the system so that they can also gain earthly riches. The only one this works for is other hucksters hence we see the company many of these fraudulent Pastors keep which in reality is the only company they respect. I can only imagine what the true titles of some of their conference meeting motivational topics would be if exposed.
INTERNATIONAL conference on ways to fleece the flock: No holds barred. Special invite only for ministries grossing 10 Million a year: Highlights
How to pass the buck with the shell game approach; avoid paying taxes in the US; how to apply to YOUR country
How to impress your King or President with favors
How to maximize giving through flattery; guilt and confusion. Special EVENING devotion on the new "Shock and Awe" approach
How to make it happen: signs; wonders-get the right title for your ministry: "Healing" and "Deliverance ministries OFFICIAL decal for 5000 dollar annual fee.
I may get flagged for this sarcasm but these are techniques being used today. It is truly sobering to see that in many of the so called revivals in the last century there were serious problems; from the anarchy that was prevalent in the Azuza street ministry to many unverified "miracles" with A.A. Allen and others with questionable morals. And no persecution?
In light of my previous attempt to cover some areas in regard to Baptism and other important factors that should aid in raising Godly children; I started discussing how the Spirit works in a household as a specific example from scriptures on the subject.
Joshua 24:15 says: And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
In light of Genesis 15:16 and the sin of the Amorites coming to the fullness about 400 years later and then being devoted to destruction; we certainly can look to the approximately 400 years we have been a nation since Plymouth Rock and how far we have strayed; no doubt worshipping some of the entities which our ancestors found with the American Indians who were considered "pagans" at the time and in general wantonly destroyed. We also could go further and see how the Indian nations themselves were in a sense being judged for some of their wicked practices; although my cousin an expert on the subject gave me a book about 20 years ago which shows the incredible complexity; diversity and number of Indian nations.
Anyway; looking at Proverbs 14:34
"Righteousness exalteth a nation: but sin is a reproach to any people."
Since John 16:8 mentions sin; righteousness and judgment to come as the working of the Holy Spirit I thought I would reiterate what I have said on numerous occasions with a particular angle. When we are believers we can discern others who are full of the Spirit because we sense conviction of unworthiness as well as the love of Christ at the same time. That truly is a paradox; but shows us a healthy fear of God but exposes us to His mercy as well; and it is and should be truly unnerving at times. That is what I would like to live out; but admit I am sadly short.
Thanks bro Giannis for those additional thoughts. If I might address your first paragraph, re: Jesus' conversation with Nicodemus. You mentioned, "Jesus said that except one is not born again (or from above)", or as the Bible quotes, "Except a man be born again"; ordinarily, I can see that there's a difference in meaning here, but can also see that the difference can also be seen as negligible, or just creating an argument on semantics. For the word 'except', I could use it equivalent, 'unless', which then correctly addresses Jesus' Words, that 'unless a man IS born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God', as opposed to, "unless a man is NOT born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God".
Also, I take your point on, "he cannot SEE the kingdom of God", as honestly I've never observed any difference between 'see' & 'enter' (as in John 3:5), yet I stand corrected in my understanding. But, I note the difference in the Greek words in this respect & also how it cannot apply to infant baptism. But are you of the general persuasion that John 3:5 "born of water and of the Spirit" applies to water baptism & Spirit baptism, rather than my understanding that it applies to 'physical and spiritual births', as an answer to Nicodemus' perplexity? Or, if to the former (i.e. to water baptism), then the necessity of water baptism which must be essential for salvation. GBU.
Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger. ( Psalm 8:2)
And did not he make one? Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one? That he might seek a godly seed. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth. ( Malachi 2:15)
For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. ( 1 Cor. 7:14).
The first verse here bolsters what I said in my last posting. The Lord can and will be loved by small children; because they haven't discovered ways through their own sin nature yet to create their own Kingdom.
The other verses here show what I have argued in the past as being THE most important factor in raising children from the start. That is two parents who are in a genuine covenantal marriage with God and ideally both believers. It appears that if the marriage is honorable than even one believing person can somehow bring the blessing of the Holy Spirit over the whole household. This is a mystery and cannot always guarantee children will remain in the faith but I feel since it IS in the Word it merits careful consideration. I am aware from testimony of one of my friends that after he and his wife came to faith evil presences were removed from their house. Truly KNOWING the Lord should mean there is some tangible comprehension that the Lord is present in our midst. Sadly in today's churches this experiental faith is either entirely disregarded or people are wildly excited about everything without discerning if it is from the Devil or their own imaginations. If the Lord is mocked and sin abounds we can be SURE the Holy Spirit isn't behind any manifestation. The best way I can describe it is a spiritual experience may seem good but the Lord is unique for a true believer KNOWS His voice.
"Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it."
My friend in Pittsburgh is the only one I have had to privilege to see correctly raising Christian children (I have no kids of my own).
Truth be told; his kids have presented materials from the Bible in school papers to their teacher's chagrin; and 2 are now in college but none of his 6 kids know the Lord yet as far as I know. Since I moved from there he has become a Deacon in his church; and it is much deserved in my opinion; my friend is very wise and truly loves the Lord; witnessing on the job as well as when other opportunities arise on the street.
Some have brought up the whole concept of today's methods of declaring someone to be in the faith because of some verbal assent (otherwise sarcastically called "decisional regeneration"). I am not going to attack this from a Calvinistic viewpoint; but from a "fruit inspection" one. And let's consider how this same process is further exacerbated with our own offspring and in particular how children are presented with Gospel truths. It is appropriate for a 5 year old to be given a softened version at least of scriptures of a graphic nature; which would include ones talking of Christ's sufferings to some extent. What we can do; of course is tell them how much we love and fear the Lord IF we live this as a reality. By the time a kid is say 12 or 13 they need to be getting into matter of fact verses about sin and their need for a Savior. FOR SURE they should be taught and experiencing a healthy prayer life; being made to be WARRIORS in a hostile world. That; in tandem with scripture reading.
In ALL stages we should be no less TENACIOUS than the world who is now forcing the politically correct agenda and forced procedures on kids as young as kindergarten today. Let us remember Psalm 8:2: Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies...
Leviticus 27:28 Notwithstanding no devoted thing, that a man shall devote unto the LORD of all that he hath, both of man and beast, and of the field of his possession, shall be sold or redeemed: every devoted thing is most holy unto the LORD.
When we consider how Jesus Himself became our perfect living sacrifice; and how we are expected to reflect the same ( Romans 12:1-2) we can see the beauty in His death; even though His visage was marred more than any man ( Isaiah 52:14).
In consideration of what seems to be a repeated theme on this site the last few days; we should consider the gravity of dedicating our FAMILY members to the Lord. In a larger sense ALL of mankind is part of God's Creation (all souls are mine ( Ezekiel 18:4).
The principal that those who know will receive many beatings compared to those who don't ( Luke 12:47-48) we hope will occur in this life; not in eternal judgment.
I am not saying we shouldn't teach our children about Christ; and probably in regard to infant baptism; I would agree when they are in the "age of innocence" despite being "little sinners" it is only the adult who will be judged irresponsible if indeed it is a violation of God's will to do this. Instead; I think we need to look more seriously at older children and teens who still are attending church activities when living with their parents. True; if we teach our children diligently ( Deut. 6:7) and give them a moral compass at least from a worldly standpoint they likely will avoid many mistakes; often deadly in today's society. But of course we should know better than expect them to automatically continue once they move out; go to college or become of working age. It is inappropriate to lock them up or something once they reach a certain maturity.
The children need to know as they learn doctrines they become more responsible; hence the warnings of Matthew 11:24 need to be taken into consideration. At some point the hard verses need to be taught.
In my church babies are dedicated to God. When they are of an age, more than say one-one and a half months old they are brought by their parents to the church and they are dedicated to the Lord by the pastor. So God takes officially control of their lives and is leading them to His will as they grow up. They learn the Bible gradually as they are growing up until the time they realize that they are sinners and they are eventually regenerated by God. Then water baptism comes next. Not in an standard age, that differs from a child to an other. Some before 10, other after 10, other after 20, other never.
And here is where the responsibility of the church starts. It has to minister these kids to become true christians when they are grown adults. It is also the responsibility of the family. Families that attend the congregation frequently and send their kids to child and youth studies, pray together, study together and do everything to protect their kids from the outside world have good results. Families that are generally careless and don't avoid mixing with the sinful world have usually disasterous results. The problem nowadays in the christian community that looses its young people to the world is that we don't avoid the world as the older generations were doing. We are a bit careless, we underestimate the dangers or we have been compromized with the world. We have become neither hot nor cold. And the kids do what they see in us. GBU
Lets go back to that conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus. Jesus said that except one is not born again (or from above, both translations can be right, the latter more possible) then he can not SEE the kingdom of God. Pay attention to that "SEE". It doesn't say ENTER but SEE. For one to "see" which means to have a knowledge, an understanding, realize, about the Kingdom of God. they must be of an age that they understand, isn't it so? Later on Jesus explains that "born from above". He says that except one is born from water and (from) the Spirit he can not enter the kingdom of God. So that "born again" is explained by Jesus as "born from water and from the Spirit". We know who the Spirit is. But water? If Jesus means the water of baptism (for infants) then that contradicts that "see" above. It also contradicts the verses in 1 Peter 1:23-25 where we are told that new birth occurs by the Word of God which was prached to us by the gospel. So according to these at least infant baptism is out of any consideration.
What about children that can have an understaning? I know many cases that little children can sometime in their lives understand that they do sins, eg say a lie, steal a toy, disobey their parents, little things that kids do. They can not understand the fullness of sin as the adults do but they know they do something wrong and want to be forgiven by God. How do they know they do some things wrong? Because they hear the Word of God that is preached to them in church and by their parents back home. So I believe that although they are not in the age of accountability still God regenerates them. I have seen kids that they have changed completely after new birth and have stopped being naughty after regeneration. They pray to God and try to live properly as the Bible says. So I think those are eligible for water baptism.
How did Noah's son's produce different races of people, When its said in the Ark was Noah and his wife and sons so how did they all produce different race of people
Thank you bro. S. Spencer for sharing that article & your thoughts on this matter of 'infant baptism'.
That was an interesting read for sure, but I do particularly note at your Part 4 (2nd para), quoting Paul Owen, "being spiritually regenerated as new-born babes, even as the Lord has declared: 'Except a man be BORN AGAIN through water and the Spirit, he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven". Here, Paul Owen is quoting John 3:5, which actually says, "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God"; Jesus is not speaking of being born again of water, but of being born of water (of = 'ek', from, from out of), which Jesus qualifies in verse 6, "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit". So Jesus is equating "being born of water" with the physical natural birth (which Nicodemus was specifically questioning in verse 4), and only the birth of (from) the Spirit is what is needed to enter "the kingdom of God". So Paul Owen's slight change of verse 5 to read "except a man be born again through water and the Spirit", can easily lead one to accept that Jesus was proclaiming baptismal regeneration.
And of course, as you rightly stated, a child (of whatever age), when he/she is able to understand what sin is & their own falling short of God's perfection, and that the only remedy is not found in them but in God's Provision of a Savior, then that little one must be led to the Cross, in faith & love, embracing Christ. In this, I see a full warrant for 'child baptism', or else a premature sprinkling on an innocent unaware child would amount to simply a type of 'child dedication' by the parents, which dedication of course, is highly commendable, sans the sprinkling. Blessings brother.
Nathan has been on my mind throughout the day today and I continue to pray for God to intervene according to His will which is always best.
I can only imagine how painful this is to Nathan and they may still be evaluating his injuries so they may not want to put him out just yet so as not to depress any vital systems functioning. I will pray for his parents who must be sick with worry.
Keep us posted. I hope to hear better news about Nathan soon. But God is good, sovereign, knows Nathan through and through, is completely aware of all his injuries and results of this accident, and is almighty. So, we can entrust those we love to Him.
It is my tradition since I have had sooo much dental work over the years, so I just prefer to think of those who need to be prayed for who I know are in much worse shape than I am when in the dentist chair. So, it is a tradition of a woman!
Thanks for the humor. We do need that because we do discuss serious matters here so often. It is good to just jest at life as well as talk about everyday things on this site just to enhance relationships here. I love getting to know more about others. I believe that people who post here are well-meaning and have desires to get at the truth of matters. But there are so many things we discuss that are important to share about, but they may not be vital to one's walk with Jesus. So in such matters we can equally share our thoughts and viewpoint and learn more than we did before even if our view remains as it was.
I endeavor not to foment disagreements here nor to intimidate someone from sharing their view. But at times I know I have failed. I do keep on praying for those on here whether I share their point of view or not. My hope is that each person who reads and desires to post will feel the freedom to share their ideas and receive thoughtful replies that do not harm another person.
It is a good goal to have every time we post. May we all do so with humility and gratitude to God for the opportunity to fellowship here.
You make a lot of great points about what is or what isn't "traditions of men."
I just have to ask, would praying for someone while sitting in the dentist chair getting prepped for a crown be considered a tradition of men?
Sorry, I had to ask and I'm just trying to share a little humor here. There's not much of that anymore and it seems like we can use a little humor every now and then.
Yet, in both cases, I really can't place such a meaning here, since Jesus was answering the question posed to Him by Nicodemus ('how can a man have a second physical birth?'). And so Jesus answered him, not in some mysterious, confusing way, but clearly, that one's birth onto the Earth can only come in a physical way, but to enter God's Kingdom, man needs to be re-born by God's Spirit & not by human involvement. And of course, Nicodemus did not query this (though he may not have fully understood Jesus' Words), rather went on in verse 9 to ask, "How can these things be?" So, I see that water in John 3:5 equates to the physical/the earthly, & the Spirit to the immaterial/heavenly. And Jesus again confirms this in verse 6, "That which is born of the flesh is flesh (earthly = water/physical birth); and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit (heavenly = Spirit/spiritual birth)." Anyway, I will keep your understanding in mind, if I can find some support in my further readings.
To the rest of your comment, I do find complete agreement, in respect to infant baptism and God's Foreknowledge of those who will respond to the Gospel. GBU.
The King James Version uses Lord because it fortunately is the true translation approved by the Holy Spirit. You did not make mention what verse you have compared, anyway Lord may be JESUS or others biblical personage, as you may know JESUS is the LORD of the lords; who are the others besides JESUS?
The KJV is correct and true, Biblehub is not, and its translation in this specific case is one among others that will be burned with everlasting fire, because Yahweh is the esoteric, and kabbalistic and spiritist name used by the esoteric, and kabbalistic and spiritist Judaism as it was GOD's name, but it is not, it is the name of the father of the Jews- John 8:44KJV-that is their God- 2Thessalonians 2:3-4KJV.
JESUS said: John 8:41-43KJV
41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to JESUS, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even GOD.
42 Jesus said unto them, If GOD were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from GOD(take a look in Hebrews 1:1-4); neither came I of myself, but He sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my Word.
Hebrews 4:12-13KJV
12 For the Word of GOD is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in His sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of Him with whom we have to do. or we must render an account
The dual tragedy and evil of murders and suicide take up almost the same amount of people with the 40000 that are killed with guns each year. Briefly looking at the data; it seems mass shootings are way up. Actually; self inflicted suicide has a much higher mortality rate than those who are shot in gun violence who normally are just injured the majority of the time (exception probably the mass shooting events). In PA where I live the sobering fact is that over 900 annually die of suicide by guns and it is supposed to be 90 percent successful as compared with other methods.
Statistically per capita per 100K the top SIX countries are all island nations. But for sheer numbers Mexico is first; followed by the USA.
Personally my mother probably at least 30 years ago knew two who died by suicide; and I myself was friends with someone who did the same; and vaguely knew about another (both individuals claimed to know the Lord). In the case of my mother one person was gay and things didn't go down well; in the other case the lady felt her ex husband was stalking her.
I am sure all of us have been affected one way or another either personally or with close family or friends with these realities.
Covid was the last thing to kill many; apparently about 40 or 45 died in the nursing home where my current Bible study has been tabled because of the latest; but less lethal outbreak. The danger of the shot is clear too; as one of my friend's cousins died right after taking it (I took the original 2 doses and that was all; guess being as old as the hills it didn't affect me like the young folks.
This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come ( 2 Tim. 3:1 with laundry list in rest of chapter). No one wants to hear it will get worse but Christians because they know the Lord is coming sooner by the day. Let us pray if He will cause a reduction in this; and if not to bring someone to the Lord even now
My friend who is a Pastor just shared with me tonight about a 90 year old church member who realized the error of her ways after he challenged her hypocrisy. After months of not talking with him; He was in tears when she called him and gave the message and now is able to help her with Bible activities in her residence now that the doors of communication are open. He gave me permission to share this; and there is more to the story as to losses in her life and I may share more later. I should point out my friend has spiritual discernment; this isn't his normal mode
That was earlier today. Tomorrow we see in D.C. what is supposed to be a gay pride collaboration where international attendes will visit of up to 3 million people according to official estimates; in addition to what's going on the entire month. Next year is supposed to be the 50th Anniversary edition of this madness. With this depravity it seems impossible for any of them to have 90 years of life until they come to repentance; and truth be told many will not even have half of that time with the suicide rates and self destruction this lifestyle brings. Talk about hypocrisy; if pride was as they claim the chief sin of Sodom based on Ezekiel 16:49-50 and pride comes before a fall ( Prov. 16:18); and that was what caused Lucifer's fall in Isaiah 14; and Ezekiel 28 touting this as the emblem of this perversion just adds to their judgment. Is it any wonder when children and toddlers are brought to events and raised this way that this sin just keeps mushrooming? The real wonder is that we see everyday those who come out of it; thanks to the Lord changing men's hearts.
And that brings me back to my original story. After this lady had almost all her relatives die and she herself became ill; she repented. The same used to be the case with gay people when they lost friends to AIDS. These days there may not be much time before God's destruction in the Tribulation.
I'm aware of your stance on mans ability to become perfect,
You made that clear a few months ago.
And, I'm sure you heard mine.
There is no virtue in revisiting that debate with you and I. Perhaps others may be willing.
However, I would like to ask you a question or two.
What is sin?
If you can become sinless, Would you being sinless wipe away your past transgressions?
How are we JUSTIFIED by becoming perfect or by Christ atonement?
God bless you Momsage.
I do totally agree about what you say regarding children being born innocent. No matter what their life is before they have come to knowing right from wrong they are not condemned. God Bless :)
Jesus says have faith and believe, At night or anytime a bad memory comes pray this simply prayer, Jesus help me pause for a second and say Thank You Jesus. Remember faith and believe that he has already helped you.
Also to get the memories out of your head. Read a verse of the bible in the morning when you wake and before you sleep and read the Bible daily. Then your mind will be filled with Gods word!
If you are like me and have a hard time reading there are Bible apps that will read it for you and your mind will be focused on the voice and not your memory.
Thank you Jesus
Some say, look at Abraham, look at Paul, God revealed Himself to them directly like He has not done in other people. Yes but He knew they would accept and obey Him. The same way He revealed Himself to Saul the king (as well to other kings), to Judas, to Balaam, to Demas, to name a few. To the Pharisees and Sadducees that had seen so many miracles but still paid the guards of Jesus' tomb to say that the disciples had stolen His body or they wanted to kill Lazarus together with Jesus because they understood that people would believe to Jesus. So it is not a matter of God's will but a matter of people's response to Him. Others say that if God doesn't grand repentance to people, nobody will repent. This is true but we have to understand how that repentance is granted by God. Not in a "magical" (again) way. Miracles are something that God uses for this purpose. His word is another way. His appearance to one is another way God uses, and so on. Often healings is also another way God uses to soften people's heart.. But again the response is not always acceptance by people.
And something else. There are verses in the scriptures where the word "chosen" in grk has the meaning of "precious, valuable". Like in Matthew 22:14, "For many are called, but few are chosen". Here the proper translation of the grk "eklektos" is precious. Which means that many have been called but few have accepted that invitation and for God they are precious, valuable. It is our response to Him that makes us precious to Him, not a somehow discriminative approach of God whom He selects and whom not.
Blessings
Sory but I quoted that passage incorrectly. You are right, it says "Except a man be born again...".
As far as my belief in what "water" stands for in John 3:5, is concerned, it means the Word of God. As I said before it is the seed that is sowed by the Sower in all people's heart. When the soil/heart is a good and soft soil then that seed gets inside it and it sprouts, in other words when a heart is soft then the word of God gets inside it and causes repentance and regeneration, 1 Peter 1:23-25 describes that clearly. So without the word of God nothing can be done. I don't agree at all with a "magical" (sorry for the expression, I know many believe it like this) regeneration. There is no possible way that God regenerates infants that most possibly will become atheists afterwards. The idea of predestination the way some believe it leaves me in complete disagreement. If God chooses whom to select and save, then He would have been a racist and discriminative God. But in 1 Timothy 2:2-4 says clearly, " For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;Who will have ALL MEN to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth". So if God wants ALL people to be saved why does He choose some for salvation? Because the whole interpetation of that is wrong, in my opinion. God knows who is going to accept Jesus and had His plans for the salvation of all mankind completed before the foundation of the world. So His choice has to do with our decisions made with our free will. It is obvious in the parable of the Sower and the good seed where Gods tries to plant His seed in every heart. But the result is due to our heart.
See pt 2
The indwelling Holy Spirit clearly gave the Apostles newfound courage after not only Peter but all the rest of them scattered; fulfilling the prophecy "smite the Shephard and the sheep will be scattered." ( Matt. 26:31). The 11 remaining Disciples apparently fell asleep multiple times and didn't know what to say; and they didn't heed the warning to pray against temptation.
This frustration on Jesus' part on seeing them short of giving Him strength of consolation in His greatest agony in the Garden ends up being against all of them; something we don't see earlier in His ministry. I could go on with a lengthy description of just how blind they were to Christ's earlier prophecies predicting His death; or their inabililty to realize what Judas was up to; or why He was headed toward Jerusalem. Frankly it is too depressing for me to get into at length. I pray that when other believers are going through life and death issues; at least that we won't shrink back but be a support even risking our lives if necessary.
This should also serve a warning as to how fast crowds will turn from God; especially in the Tribulation. I have gone at length on how today's presentation of the Gospel tends to be lacking repentance as a requisite for salvation; how sin in general is softened; and how counting the cost of being a true disciple is often ignored. Nonetheless even when a true Gospel is offered; there can be some acceptance in times of prosperity; but we should be alert to things changing fast and prepared for many to fall away in these last days as Timothy warned ( 1 Timothy 4:1). Deceiving spirits will come more often I would say to those already"religious" nominal Christians who aren't discerning.
in secret,the owner is God,the steward who gives the pay of the penny is Jesus
the Penny is Heaven
the parallels of the laborer's time spent in the field are the believers
what Jesus is saying is that no matter how long a believer labors in faith
weather it be there whole life or just a hour before time is up
The payment of Heaven is the Same to All........
that Jesus gives it to
When the chips are down; and times get hard we will look for any solace in a storm. As with anything; at least as long as a church service as we are used to attending in a building is allowed (which may not be too much longer) what stands the test of time are those who stick closer than a brother ( Prov. 18:24) which is contrasted with those more shallow relationships that persecution will find tends to back away. When someone has a relative martyred for the faith such as a Deacon in my current church it helps put things into perspective; and it is a blessing to see him and his family; where his wife; 3 kids; mother and mother in law are all believers along with someone else they know from their native country (I won't mention where). I met another individual from an African nation who had a number of fellow servants in the Lord martyred when witnessing to surrounding countries on a clandestine mission.
Tough times are unbearable to think about in our own strength; but i will say that they tend to simplify everything; when we aren't so focused on distractions. It is no accident that countries with the highest level of persecution tend to be the places where people spend hours rather than minutes in prayer and services for the Lord as it comes with a high cost; and one never knows if the next service will come to pass. When you have to travel for miles barefoot it makes you appreciate more the fellowship of the saints and the unity thereof.
Less is more in many ways; godliness and contentment is great gain ( 1 Tim. 6:6). Would there be more that would open their homes to Bible study; prayer and going out to evangelize on a regular basis. Such was my experience in the past; for now I am taking care of elderly parents but if He tarries I plan to return to this type of fellowship wherever that may be. Laboring in the fields isn't fun; and costs some time; but builds our faith.
My last posting raised the question where was evidence for persecution for almost all the "famous" preachers of the last century?
It has truly saddened me to see how Billy Graham seemed to sell out in many ways; and to be at all glad that a special star was made for him in Hollywood (at least I think that's where it is) should be a warning signal when he didn't immediately reject such worldly acclaim. The truth is; unless one is truly dangerous to the Kingdom of darkness they won't be much resisted.
I won't mention anyone currently living by name; but there are other celebrities who have museums named after them and who clearly have sold out to the Christian music "industry"; where we see many performing secular music eventually; and a number becoming atheists of late.
Persecution can come in many forms: Should we preach the truth we should expect those under demonic influence or disturbed to bring resistance as I have witnessed myself personally in the past. I also saw a con artist who used flattery and apparently eventually went elsewhere and bamboozled someone to marry him for her money. He was claiming to be a miracle worker sort of person from one of the African nations. We also can expect people to come who are victims of abuse; I have seen this as well with a wife of an abusive alcoholic. We can expect people who need deliverance; I got to witness that as well as well as hearing of a successful one in my church; although sadly someone ELSE I felt ill prepared for and I'm not sure if he ever went through with it. The enemy will use disturbed people to test our fearlessness. There are some things that must be dealt with outside a formal service but we should be ready to have our comfort zones tested; or how will we be ready when real persecution begins and we are jailed or attacked? We all have to ask ourselves are we ready to rely on the Holy Spirit and truly fight offenively against the enemy?
I have discussed apparently more than once in Philippians 1 about how many preached out of envy to add to Paul's suffering as no doubt those preaching this way would bring the accusation that Christians truly are unhinged; and not in the way the Lord intends.
God says that He "draws all men to Himself" ( John 12:32) to be accomplished after the Resurrection.
When we see the sideshow that is so often the megachurch power and numbers game; which in reality is usually just "filthy lucre" as a motivation ( Titus 1:11; 1 Tim. 3:3 etc) it kind of reminds us of Judas Iscariot on steroids; everybody out for a buck and willing to pay into the system so that they can also gain earthly riches. The only one this works for is other hucksters hence we see the company many of these fraudulent Pastors keep which in reality is the only company they respect. I can only imagine what the true titles of some of their conference meeting motivational topics would be if exposed.
INTERNATIONAL conference on ways to fleece the flock: No holds barred. Special invite only for ministries grossing 10 Million a year: Highlights
How to pass the buck with the shell game approach; avoid paying taxes in the US; how to apply to YOUR country
How to impress your King or President with favors
How to maximize giving through flattery; guilt and confusion. Special EVENING devotion on the new "Shock and Awe" approach
How to make it happen: signs; wonders-get the right title for your ministry: "Healing" and "Deliverance ministries OFFICIAL decal for 5000 dollar annual fee.
I may get flagged for this sarcasm but these are techniques being used today. It is truly sobering to see that in many of the so called revivals in the last century there were serious problems; from the anarchy that was prevalent in the Azuza street ministry to many unverified "miracles" with A.A. Allen and others with questionable morals. And no persecution?
In light of my previous attempt to cover some areas in regard to Baptism and other important factors that should aid in raising Godly children; I started discussing how the Spirit works in a household as a specific example from scriptures on the subject.
Joshua 24:15 says: And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
In light of Genesis 15:16 and the sin of the Amorites coming to the fullness about 400 years later and then being devoted to destruction; we certainly can look to the approximately 400 years we have been a nation since Plymouth Rock and how far we have strayed; no doubt worshipping some of the entities which our ancestors found with the American Indians who were considered "pagans" at the time and in general wantonly destroyed. We also could go further and see how the Indian nations themselves were in a sense being judged for some of their wicked practices; although my cousin an expert on the subject gave me a book about 20 years ago which shows the incredible complexity; diversity and number of Indian nations.
Anyway; looking at Proverbs 14:34
"Righteousness exalteth a nation: but sin is a reproach to any people."
Since John 16:8 mentions sin; righteousness and judgment to come as the working of the Holy Spirit I thought I would reiterate what I have said on numerous occasions with a particular angle. When we are believers we can discern others who are full of the Spirit because we sense conviction of unworthiness as well as the love of Christ at the same time. That truly is a paradox; but shows us a healthy fear of God but exposes us to His mercy as well; and it is and should be truly unnerving at times. That is what I would like to live out; but admit I am sadly short.
Also, I take your point on, "he cannot SEE the kingdom of God", as honestly I've never observed any difference between 'see' & 'enter' (as in John 3:5), yet I stand corrected in my understanding. But, I note the difference in the Greek words in this respect & also how it cannot apply to infant baptism. But are you of the general persuasion that John 3:5 "born of water and of the Spirit" applies to water baptism & Spirit baptism, rather than my understanding that it applies to 'physical and spiritual births', as an answer to Nicodemus' perplexity? Or, if to the former (i.e. to water baptism), then the necessity of water baptism which must be essential for salvation. GBU.
And did not he make one? Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one? That he might seek a godly seed. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth. ( Malachi 2:15)
For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. ( 1 Cor. 7:14).
The first verse here bolsters what I said in my last posting. The Lord can and will be loved by small children; because they haven't discovered ways through their own sin nature yet to create their own Kingdom.
The other verses here show what I have argued in the past as being THE most important factor in raising children from the start. That is two parents who are in a genuine covenantal marriage with God and ideally both believers. It appears that if the marriage is honorable than even one believing person can somehow bring the blessing of the Holy Spirit over the whole household. This is a mystery and cannot always guarantee children will remain in the faith but I feel since it IS in the Word it merits careful consideration. I am aware from testimony of one of my friends that after he and his wife came to faith evil presences were removed from their house. Truly KNOWING the Lord should mean there is some tangible comprehension that the Lord is present in our midst. Sadly in today's churches this experiental faith is either entirely disregarded or people are wildly excited about everything without discerning if it is from the Devil or their own imaginations. If the Lord is mocked and sin abounds we can be SURE the Holy Spirit isn't behind any manifestation. The best way I can describe it is a spiritual experience may seem good but the Lord is unique for a true believer KNOWS His voice.
"Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it."
My friend in Pittsburgh is the only one I have had to privilege to see correctly raising Christian children (I have no kids of my own).
Truth be told; his kids have presented materials from the Bible in school papers to their teacher's chagrin; and 2 are now in college but none of his 6 kids know the Lord yet as far as I know. Since I moved from there he has become a Deacon in his church; and it is much deserved in my opinion; my friend is very wise and truly loves the Lord; witnessing on the job as well as when other opportunities arise on the street.
Some have brought up the whole concept of today's methods of declaring someone to be in the faith because of some verbal assent (otherwise sarcastically called "decisional regeneration"). I am not going to attack this from a Calvinistic viewpoint; but from a "fruit inspection" one. And let's consider how this same process is further exacerbated with our own offspring and in particular how children are presented with Gospel truths. It is appropriate for a 5 year old to be given a softened version at least of scriptures of a graphic nature; which would include ones talking of Christ's sufferings to some extent. What we can do; of course is tell them how much we love and fear the Lord IF we live this as a reality. By the time a kid is say 12 or 13 they need to be getting into matter of fact verses about sin and their need for a Savior. FOR SURE they should be taught and experiencing a healthy prayer life; being made to be WARRIORS in a hostile world. That; in tandem with scripture reading.
In ALL stages we should be no less TENACIOUS than the world who is now forcing the politically correct agenda and forced procedures on kids as young as kindergarten today. Let us remember Psalm 8:2: Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies...
When we consider how Jesus Himself became our perfect living sacrifice; and how we are expected to reflect the same ( Romans 12:1-2) we can see the beauty in His death; even though His visage was marred more than any man ( Isaiah 52:14).
In consideration of what seems to be a repeated theme on this site the last few days; we should consider the gravity of dedicating our FAMILY members to the Lord. In a larger sense ALL of mankind is part of God's Creation (all souls are mine ( Ezekiel 18:4).
The principal that those who know will receive many beatings compared to those who don't ( Luke 12:47-48) we hope will occur in this life; not in eternal judgment.
I am not saying we shouldn't teach our children about Christ; and probably in regard to infant baptism; I would agree when they are in the "age of innocence" despite being "little sinners" it is only the adult who will be judged irresponsible if indeed it is a violation of God's will to do this. Instead; I think we need to look more seriously at older children and teens who still are attending church activities when living with their parents. True; if we teach our children diligently ( Deut. 6:7) and give them a moral compass at least from a worldly standpoint they likely will avoid many mistakes; often deadly in today's society. But of course we should know better than expect them to automatically continue once they move out; go to college or become of working age. It is inappropriate to lock them up or something once they reach a certain maturity.
The children need to know as they learn doctrines they become more responsible; hence the warnings of Matthew 11:24 need to be taken into consideration. At some point the hard verses need to be taught.
God bless.
In my church babies are dedicated to God. When they are of an age, more than say one-one and a half months old they are brought by their parents to the church and they are dedicated to the Lord by the pastor. So God takes officially control of their lives and is leading them to His will as they grow up. They learn the Bible gradually as they are growing up until the time they realize that they are sinners and they are eventually regenerated by God. Then water baptism comes next. Not in an standard age, that differs from a child to an other. Some before 10, other after 10, other after 20, other never.
And here is where the responsibility of the church starts. It has to minister these kids to become true christians when they are grown adults. It is also the responsibility of the family. Families that attend the congregation frequently and send their kids to child and youth studies, pray together, study together and do everything to protect their kids from the outside world have good results. Families that are generally careless and don't avoid mixing with the sinful world have usually disasterous results. The problem nowadays in the christian community that looses its young people to the world is that we don't avoid the world as the older generations were doing. We are a bit careless, we underestimate the dangers or we have been compromized with the world. We have become neither hot nor cold. And the kids do what they see in us. GBU
May I add a few things on baptism?
Lets go back to that conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus. Jesus said that except one is not born again (or from above, both translations can be right, the latter more possible) then he can not SEE the kingdom of God. Pay attention to that "SEE". It doesn't say ENTER but SEE. For one to "see" which means to have a knowledge, an understanding, realize, about the Kingdom of God. they must be of an age that they understand, isn't it so? Later on Jesus explains that "born from above". He says that except one is born from water and (from) the Spirit he can not enter the kingdom of God. So that "born again" is explained by Jesus as "born from water and from the Spirit". We know who the Spirit is. But water? If Jesus means the water of baptism (for infants) then that contradicts that "see" above. It also contradicts the verses in 1 Peter 1:23-25 where we are told that new birth occurs by the Word of God which was prached to us by the gospel. So according to these at least infant baptism is out of any consideration.
What about children that can have an understaning? I know many cases that little children can sometime in their lives understand that they do sins, eg say a lie, steal a toy, disobey their parents, little things that kids do. They can not understand the fullness of sin as the adults do but they know they do something wrong and want to be forgiven by God. How do they know they do some things wrong? Because they hear the Word of God that is preached to them in church and by their parents back home. So I believe that although they are not in the age of accountability still God regenerates them. I have seen kids that they have changed completely after new birth and have stopped being naughty after regeneration. They pray to God and try to live properly as the Bible says. So I think those are eligible for water baptism.
God Bless :)
That was an interesting read for sure, but I do particularly note at your Part 4 (2nd para), quoting Paul Owen, "being spiritually regenerated as new-born babes, even as the Lord has declared: 'Except a man be BORN AGAIN through water and the Spirit, he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven". Here, Paul Owen is quoting John 3:5, which actually says, "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God"; Jesus is not speaking of being born again of water, but of being born of water (of = 'ek', from, from out of), which Jesus qualifies in verse 6, "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit". So Jesus is equating "being born of water" with the physical natural birth (which Nicodemus was specifically questioning in verse 4), and only the birth of (from) the Spirit is what is needed to enter "the kingdom of God". So Paul Owen's slight change of verse 5 to read "except a man be born again through water and the Spirit", can easily lead one to accept that Jesus was proclaiming baptismal regeneration.
And of course, as you rightly stated, a child (of whatever age), when he/she is able to understand what sin is & their own falling short of God's perfection, and that the only remedy is not found in them but in God's Provision of a Savior, then that little one must be led to the Cross, in faith & love, embracing Christ. In this, I see a full warrant for 'child baptism', or else a premature sprinkling on an innocent unaware child would amount to simply a type of 'child dedication' by the parents, which dedication of course, is highly commendable, sans the sprinkling. Blessings brother.
Nathan has been on my mind throughout the day today and I continue to pray for God to intervene according to His will which is always best.
I can only imagine how painful this is to Nathan and they may still be evaluating his injuries so they may not want to put him out just yet so as not to depress any vital systems functioning. I will pray for his parents who must be sick with worry.
Keep us posted. I hope to hear better news about Nathan soon. But God is good, sovereign, knows Nathan through and through, is completely aware of all his injuries and results of this accident, and is almighty. So, we can entrust those we love to Him.
It is my tradition since I have had sooo much dental work over the years, so I just prefer to think of those who need to be prayed for who I know are in much worse shape than I am when in the dentist chair. So, it is a tradition of a woman!
Thanks for the humor. We do need that because we do discuss serious matters here so often. It is good to just jest at life as well as talk about everyday things on this site just to enhance relationships here. I love getting to know more about others. I believe that people who post here are well-meaning and have desires to get at the truth of matters. But there are so many things we discuss that are important to share about, but they may not be vital to one's walk with Jesus. So in such matters we can equally share our thoughts and viewpoint and learn more than we did before even if our view remains as it was.
I endeavor not to foment disagreements here nor to intimidate someone from sharing their view. But at times I know I have failed. I do keep on praying for those on here whether I share their point of view or not. My hope is that each person who reads and desires to post will feel the freedom to share their ideas and receive thoughtful replies that do not harm another person.
It is a good goal to have every time we post. May we all do so with humility and gratitude to God for the opportunity to fellowship here.
You make a lot of great points about what is or what isn't "traditions of men."
I just have to ask, would praying for someone while sitting in the dentist chair getting prepped for a crown be considered a tradition of men?
Sorry, I had to ask and I'm just trying to share a little humor here. There's not much of that anymore and it seems like we can use a little humor every now and then.
Blessings!