Thank you for your well-said reply, we must study, 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. This site is wonderful as long as we are respectful and honestly care for each other we can discuss anything in the Bible. I hope this inspires you to study, it warrants the study of both sides for your understanding. It is a subject that may take a long time in prayer and study, do it with open ears to the Holy Spirit.
Thank you, you do not upset me and I hope I do not upset you, I understand how sensitive this subject is. The only way I know is, to be honest and say what is in my heart and what the Scriptures and my prayers have revealed to me. I am not trying to change anyone's beliefs or understanding. I have learned a lot since I have been on this site because of the brothers and sisters here who are willing to share their understanding in love and inspire each other to study, not an I'm right and you are wrong attitude.
I hope you feel you can discuss anything with me in love and respect, I am in my 70s and pretty tough-skinned. As long as our discussions are done in love and inspire each other to study even if we differ, we have the same objective to learn the truth.
Colossians 4:6 - Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.
The command in Verse 6 is let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, in order that you might know how you ought to answer every man. To speak with grace is to speak under the influence of God's Spirit. It means to speak spiritual, wholesome, kind, sensitive, and truthful.
Seasoned with salt. Now salt served two purposes. Flavor is one. But preventing corruption is the other. They poured salt over the meat or food to prevent corruption of the food. Everything we say should be spoken with grace but seasoned with salt, preservation from corruption. And that we might know how we answer everyone. Everybody requires wisdom to know how to answer. Our words can be very destructive.
Colossians 4:10 - Aristarchus my fellowprisoner saluteth you, and Marcus, sister's son to Barnabas, (touching whom ye received commandments: if he come unto you, receive him;)
Aristarchus is a Greek name for a Jewish native that comes from Thessalonica, recorded for us in Acts 2:4, and Acts 27:2. Aristarchus was a fellowprisoner. He was locked up with Paul. Aristarchus greets you.
And next he says Marcus greets you. This is John Mark. This is the one that wrote the gospel of Mark, and also the one that went on the first missionary journey with Paul and Barnabas.
This is all I have to share in Colossians. I will be going over 1 Thessalonians next. We are getting into some shorter book, so this is moving along a little faster.
Colossians 3:21 - Fathers, provoke not your children to anger, lest they be discouraged.
To provoke means to irritate. It has to do with punishing someone for something they didn't do just for the sake of punishing them. It's very frustrating to them, very irritating.
Colossians 4:3 - Withal praying also for us, that God would open unto us a door of utterance, to speak the mystery of Christ, for which I am also in bonds:
With praying also for us, that God would open to us a door of utterance, and door means a symbol of opportunity. He's praying for opportunity to speak. To speak what? To speak the mystery of Christ, for which I am also in bonds, or in chains. He says I'm in prison for this very thing, to get an opportunity to speak the mysteries of Christ.
Always nice to hear from you. Sorry for the late reply. I do want to thank you for sharing your understanding on this. I also want to thank you for continuing on in the studies that I am putting together and sharing. If I remember correctly, you have shared your view on this before with me so I don't see anything new that would warrant a response, at least nothing that we haven't already discussed in the past. We do have a different understanding, but that's okay. I will always respect your view and the things you have to share. Right now, I am not able to agree with what you are telling me while at the same time believing in the deity of Christ. It would be contradictive of me to do so.
If the above interpretation troubles you, we can see another verse, Hebrews 1:5, "For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?"
What is meant by "this day I begotten you"? Does it refer to Jesus' physical birth? Lets see how Paul explains it in Acts 13:32-33, "32And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers,33God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee" So it is obvious that Paul considers that that birth" refers to Jesus' resurrection and not to His physical birth.
So lets go back to that "firstborn from the dead". I think it gets quite clear that it means that Jesus is the first to be resurrected from the dead. The rest to be resurrected is God's people, either now spiritually or later physically.
Since you were talking about the grk, I think I can contribute to this discussion.
Rev 3:14, "...the beginning(in grk "arche") of the creation of God;". The word "arche" has many meanings. It may mean "the begining" but it may mean something that is on top of all the others, such as a "principality".
For exmple, Ephessians 6:12, "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities(in grk archae), against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.". The grk for "principalities" in this verse is "archae" which is plural for "arche". Similarly Colossians 1:16, "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities(in grk archae), or powers: all things were created by him, and for him"
So we see that in both verses above the KJB corectly tranaslates the word "archae" as "principalities but wrongly translates it as "begining" in Rev 3:14. The grk "en" in Colossians may mean "in" but also "through". And the later is the right meaning here.
Col 1:17, "kai autos(and He) esti(is) pro panton(before everything), kai ta panta(and everything) en auto(in or through Him) sunesteke(are kept together)"
Lets see another verse that troubles a lot of people. Colossians 1:18, "And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning(in grk arche), the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.". Here the grk "arche" is corectly translated as "begining". The question is: what is really meant by "firstborn from the dead"? Many interpretation of this are given. The one that agrees with all the above verses that clearly show the divinity of Jesus is that Jesus(as a human) is the first child of God who was taken out from the dead (dead people spiritually). Who are the rest of those that are born by God? Us, His brothers and sisters. See pt 2
This all seems so logical to me , if Jesus was co eternal with God Himself then why is Jesus called the Son of God . God is a God of order , we see that in His Word and in His creation . Father's exist before their children do , if Jesus was co eternal wouldn't he be called God's brother ? That sounds ridiculous I know but surely if Jesus was equal and co eternal to God Jesus wouldn't be God's Son , Jesus would have a title that would reflect his status as an equal co eternal being . Father's begat sons , sons proceed from their fathers body , sons bear the image of their father , sons carry in themselves part of their father . Logical progression , this order was invented/ created by God . Children also carry part of their mother in them but ultimately , because of how women were created , being part of the man , it all goes back to the ultimate source of all life male or female , that is God Himself , if God created everything then He really did ! He created everything , everything means everything . He is the only self sustaining entity in the entire universe . Everything in existence only exists because He permits it .
Please do not be upset by me saying these things. I am trying to interact with you in a way that is transparent and honest. I don't think that there needs to be complete agreement on all things on this forum and respect that people differ. But I am glad that now I have a better context to place your viewpoint within the stream of those who claim to be Christian believers.
May God bless you tonight and always. Your postings have cause me to dig deeper into viewpoints I was unaware of before I came on here. I think it is good to be thus informed so that conversations can be surrounded with better understanding and our responses can be more helpful.
I was just thinking of you today and considering some of what you have said in the past about viewing God as only one Person and that Jesus is not God in the flesh. I have wanted to better understand your view, as I have not encountered it before in all the years of my life. I found information on sects that deny the divinity of Jesus and these came up:
Jehovah's Witness,
Christadelphians
The Way International
Worldwide Church of God
Church of Christ (some)
I also found information on Socianism and Unitarianism. Perhaps you associate more with these two than the ones listed above. I reviewed the information on the history of Socianism and Unitarianism along with what is generally professed. These beliefs are very similar to what you have put forward in the past and I was able to read the biblical interpretation used to support these views.
And then, here you are tonight responding to Jesse on just the beliefs I was reading about. So all of this is timely. I am glad to find sources that explain your viewpoints more fully as you have not done so here due to limitations of such a forum.
Even so, the information does not change my trinitarian view of God, nor the deity of Jesus and the Biblical texts that show that Jesus is worshipped as God (for only God is to be worshipped). I hope we can continue to discuss these topics over time. I am confident that the Lord will lead us to a more refined truth from His Word.
Please know that I pray for you often along with so many others on this forum. I think of you fondly even though I do not agree with you on these matters and think that someone who denies the Trinity and the deity of Jesus is speaks false teaching that I believe leads to another gospel and another Jesus than what Scripture attests to.
Ronald, I say this not to be harsh with you, nor to berate you, nor to discourage you from presenting your viewpoint. Rather, I just want to convey to you that your view of God and Jesus disturbs me greatly
God asks Job."Where is the way where light dwelleth? and as for darkness, where is the place thereof?( Job 38.19). Under the everlasting covenant God separated light from darkness. "And God saw the light, that it was good" (Ge.1.4-5) What is good is from everlasting to everlasting."And God divided the light from the darkness./And God called the light Day".Consequently whatever day specified in the Bible must fall under the Law of the Spirit. Ancient of days signifies it. Under the covenant the 144,000 that stand on Mount Sion is waiting for the Marriage of the Lamb. "And the temple of God was opened in heaven." (Rev.11.19) When it is done we shall have as mentioned here," And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband." The city where light dwelleth is holy and is called the light of the Lamb.
Thus there is a way marked for the light, which we call as heavenly places and the direction is from east to west. The Spirit points the direction from which our blessings begin. "And a river went out of Eden to water the garden" and Adam was put in the garden, east of Eden. All subsequent movement of man is further east till the great river Euphrates is dried up."and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared."(Rev.16.12) Thus we have east as beginning and the ending of a way before tabernacle of God with man could commence.
Consider the saying of Jesus,"And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven./ But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness:" (Matt.8.11-12) God asks Job,"Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all." (J8.18) Man cannot measure the wisdom of God. He doesnot know the bread of the earth. Yet ignoramus speaks of third heaven as if he knows it.
You are welcome. I now that you have been caring for your mom for some time and that both of you have serious health issues as well financial need that likely you cannot remedy because you need to care for your mom. So I do remember to pray for you for some time now. It is heartbreaking to me to know that so many people are caring for ailing parents who need to be with them in such a way that one cannot work. And many, like you, have health issues that most likely keep you from working in the first place let alone needing to be with your Mom all day. May God bring help in all ways to you, your Mom, and others in similar situations.
Just how quickly and how effortlessly were Jesus words misinterpreted ? John chapter 21 verses 20-24 .
We need to trust what the Bible actually says , not what we think it says , not what other people who we might like , think it says , what does it , the Word of God actually say ? It means what it says and says what it means . It doesn't mean what it doesn't say and it doesn't say what it doesn't mean . It really is that simple .
Thanks, brother, it's me again. I just wanted to give my understanding. Jesus was the beginning of God's plan and everything that was created was on the account of Jesus. As in Revelation 3:14 Jesus was the beginning of the creation of God. Jesus was in God's plan before anything was created and when the fullness of times; Jesus was conceived by the Holy Ghost born of Mary.
Colossians 1:16 starts with the Greek word hoti which means because, to explain reasons, and ev meaning in, because in him were all things. Also, the same Greek word ev, all things were created in him and for him, same in verse 17 Jesus was before, the Greek word pro, meaning in front of, in him all things were created. My understanding is that Jesus was the reason and purpose of all creation, to me this ties to Ephesians 1:9-11. The mystery of God's will in the fullness of times all things in Christ that were in God's plan that Jesus was the beginning of.
I know some believe Jesus created all and some believe Jesus is the tool that through Him God created all. To me, all of Scripture shows God the Father the one and only God created all. Jesus was the beginning of God's plan and all was for the sake of Jesus who is God's only begotten Son who was not until the fulness of times conceived by the Holy Ghost in Mary.
Ephesians 1:19-23 We have seen and are now seeing God's plan being fulfilled in Jesus all in heaven and earth until all enemies are under His feet, 1 Corinthians 15:23. Jesus did not have the authority He was given the authority. We were created for Jesus for the glory of God.
Colossians 3:15 - And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.
Notice that this all comes under put on the new life. If you're saved and Christ is in you, it's a matter of deciding what way you're going to go. Let the peace of God rule in your hearts. The word peace, EIRENE means to be united. The peace of Christ, and the peace of God, it just means to be at one with Him. When I'm under the influence of God's Spirit, the unity that's already existing flows from one believer to the other in one body. The next command: and be ye thankful. That's not a human practice. That also is a ministry of God's Spirit. It's part of the new life. Just put it on!
Colossians 3:16 - Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
All of this in Verse 16 is the same concepts that are found in Ephesians 5:18-21. Many of the teachings in Ephesians are also in Colossians. In Ephesians 5:18, Paul says be filled with the Spirit which produces certain characteristics.
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; and there are three things that are produced by the word of God. And the word dwell means to make His home in your heart. Let the word of Christ make its home in you richly in all wisdom; by teaching, and these are called Modal Participles. By teaching, and by admonishing (warning) one another.
In psalms and hymns and spiritual songs. They used to use singing as a means of teaching. They would learn scriptures with music and would sing. But they would warn one another in singing of psalms and hymns and spiritual songs.
Thirdly, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. It doesn't say with your lips and vocal cords. What the bible is saying is whether you sing out loud, or sing to the Lord privately, it must come from your heart.
Colossians 3:12 - Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, and then he lists five things:
The first one is bowels of mercies. The Greeks always used the names of internal organs to express their deep affection and love. So, bowels of mercies would equal out to a heart of compassion. The word kindness is the word usefulness. Not all kindness is useful. Humbleness of mind is number three. Meekness basically means to be open and receptive to people. And then longsuffering means to be slow in human reaction to others as far as anger.
And then Verse 13 has two participles, which means these two are to be done at the same time as the others.
Colossians 3:13 - Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
Forbearing one another, which is the word for tolerance. Be continually tolerating one another and be continually forgiving one another. How can I do that? Put on the new life. Christ is already there. You're complete in Him. It's a matter of turning to Him.
And then the command: if any man have a quarrel against anyone: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye. Forgive them. How can I forgive like Christ forgives? It's because I have Christ. It's Him in me that ministers through me to others.
Colossians 3:14 - And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.
And above all these things, which literally in the Greek means add this to everything else. Put on charity, or agape, which is the bond of maturity, completeness. Put on love! And again, AGAPE is not a human action. Love is a fruit of God's Spirit.
Colossians 3:8 - But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
But now ye also put off all these; Anger, and that is a deep boiling anger. Wrath, which is a sudden outburst of anger. Malice, is general evil, just giving people a bad time. Blasphemy, and it is interesting that when this word is directed from human being to human being, it is translated slander. But when it's directed towards God it is called blasphemy. It's the same word and it has to do with slander.
And filthy communication from out of your mouth. You don't need to be rehabilitated. You just need to put it off. It's part of the old life.
Colossians 3:10 - And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
And that you have put on the new man, and that's the new regenerate man, which is renewed, and the word renewed means to acquire a new quality. In 2 Corinthians 5:17, Paul says we have become a new creation in Christ. The old things have passed away and all things have become new.
Which is renewed in knowledge, and the word knowledge means deep knowledge, thorough knowledge, after the image of him that created him: Our new man created in Christ! We have a new quality of life and a knowledge that other people do not get to know.
Colossians 3:2 - Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
Again, continually set your affection. And the word affection has to do with the frame of mind. This is the disposition of the mind, the attitude, the approach to life. Have a frame of mind that is set on things above and not things on the earth. The explanation is given to us in Verses 3 and 4.
Colossians 3:5 - Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
Interesting, it says mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth. Mortify means put to death. It means allow the members of your body and its desires to die. Stop trying to revive them. Stop trying to reach back in the old life. You're losing desire for those old things so let it die.
And he gives us a list of 5 things:
Fornication, which is sexual immorality. Uncleanness, which is all sexual impureness. Inordinate affection, which is physical passion. Evil concupiscence, which means evil mental desires. And covetousness, which we call greed. And the word covetousness literally in the Greek means the desire to have more. Being greedy and covetous is the desire to have more than what you have.
And notice what he calls it: which is idolatry: It's a form of worship and idolatry toward God to be greedy and have the desire to have more than what God has given you.
Colossians 3:7 - In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
In which you also walked some time (or literally once), when you lived in them, reminding them that they're now believers. They don't walk that way anymore. And so, he's telling them to put it off. There are two phrases that are used, to put on a coat, and to take off a coat. When he says put off, he means that. You got your old dirty clothes on again. Take the dirty clothes off and put the new life back on. It's as simple as that!
Colossians 2:14 - Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
The word handwriting means a hand written certificate of debt. The bible says that every person, as soon as they sin, they are indebted to God for the payment for that sin, which no one can pay. But He blotted it out, which was contrary to us, and He took it out of the way, He removed it. He removed the debt, nailing it to his cross;
That's a very interesting statement. You'll remember in Matthew 27:37 when Jesus was nailed on the cross, and this is true for every criminal, is that they would put a plaque above the person on the cross which would list their crimes.
And so that's what this phrase is making reference to, that all my offences were nailed to the cross, on that plaque if you would, all of my sins, and that Jesus died for me. He nailed my handwriting certificate of debt to the cross for me.
Colossians 3:1 - If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
It starts out by saying, if you then be risen with Christ. The word "if" used here is a First-Class Condition Assumed to be True. It is literally translated since. Since you then are risen with Christ, seek those things (There's your command) which are above, where Christ sits on the right hand of God.
The verb tense is continually seek the things above, the things of heaven, and not the things on the earth. So, we have to ask the question, what am I seeking? Every morning when I get up, I'm seeking something. Most of the time it's in the human. We're told that we are citizens of the kingdom of heaven, and we're to seek the things of Christ, not the things of the earth.
Indeed MotherMac. This discussion is open to all - I would welcome those Scriptures about the important & needy work by our sisters when the Body of Christ comes together to worship & learn together.
Thank you Mtullis150 for those added thoughts for consideration. We are not given every detail about what took place in Moses' life by his interaction with the LORD God, so I suppose, some of what we believe (or, assume) is simply that - an assumption.
What helps me to believe what I shared with you earlier about Moses failing to circumcise his son, is that Moses already had two sons (Gershom & Eliezer) prior to his leaving with his family back to Egypt (Moses obeying God's Command). In Exodus 2:21,22 we read of his first son, Gershom and then in Exodus 4:20, we read that "Moses took his wife and his SONS, and set them upon an ass, and he returned to the land of Egypt". So, somewhere between those references, Zipporah gave birth to Eliezer ( 1 Chronicles 23:15, for Eliezer's name).
Then the question arises, 'if Moses, on his return to Egypt, was confronted by the LORD concerning the circumcision of his son, which son is being referred to - the first or second? And if it was the second son being referred to (as the text could infer), then the first son, Gershom, must have been circumcised on the eighth day after birth? So, from this event & the sparse Scriptures we have concerning it, I must 'assume' that Moses must have somehow learned about Abraham, the events surrounding him, & about circumcision, so that at least his (Moses') first son would have been circumcised according to what he learned (whether from an account passed down about Abraham or directly given to him by the LORD).
And the other sad thing I noted from Exodus 4:20, was about the anguish & pain the poor donkey must have endured, having to carry Zipporah & her sons altogether. Hopefully, Moses' family were all delicate in frame, making the long journey easy for everyone.
Your hope for your son and yourself is in the Lord Jesus Christ, our Great God and Savior, as stated in Titus 2:13; in the Father, our God Almighty, and the Holy Spirit who dwells in believers, so I recommend you keep spending your time and energies with God in prayer, asking for wisdom in this situation, for deliverance for your son, and the opening of doors for his care for the future.
I continue to keep you and Arthur in prayer. And I do recommend reading Psalms. Thanks for sharing this update. I am partnering with you in this distressing situation.
Is it possible that Moses may not have known the ways of Abraham. the information was given to Abraham from God, God had instructed that the children (male) should all be circumcised on the 8th day after birth. because he grew up in the House of Pharoah. When he left to warn Pharaoh to let his people go. Moses Lean to his own understanding and did not acknowledge God of the things that should take place before he left , but for Zipporah his wife, she knew. He had help from his wife (Holy Ghost) helps us to know when we are in error.
would this be correct me to think about this process ( MAYBE)
"And he put forth a parable to those which were bidden, when he marked how they chose out the chief rooms; saying unto them." ( Lk. 14.7-11)
Parable works on principle of Similitude so heaven and the earth have truth in common. Thy word is truth cannot be denied. So a simple wedding feast in which local worthies appropriate place of honour while poor Lazarus is among the dogs and at the farthest set by the gate. " But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee." (14.10) The Jews took pride that they were people of the law but Jesus was implying their unworthiness when he laid down the kernel of the parable, "So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen."(Mt.20.16) So this commonplace event, a place for joy and social gathering has been hijacked by the devil to divide man created in 'our image' into hierarchy. So much so the most vile person who is made a President would want to wear a crown as well. Thus in the devil's disinformation space the meaner you get more honour you crave. So Solomon' advice was, "Put not forth thyself in the presence of the king, and stand not in the place of great men."(Prov.25.6)
The Lord from heaven was telling the truth. Eye has not seen ear has heard what God has reserved for those who love him. "Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel." Jesus was referring to the Gentile centurion's faith. "And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven./But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness."(Mt.8.10-12)"Be not thou afraid when one is made rich, when the glory of his house is increased;For when he dieth he shall carry nothing away"(Ps.49:16-17)
Hello Mtullis150. Not sure whether you're seeking help to understand this situation, so will share my thoughts briefly. When we read the whole account found in Exodus 4:18-26, we learn that after Moses took his wife Zipporah & sons ( Exodus 4:20, Exodus 18:3) from Midian to Egypt (when the LORD instructed Moses what to do when he approached Pharaoh), they stopped by an inn (probably for the night). It was here that God approached Moses about him violating the command (as was first given to Abraham in Genesis 17:10), and would have killed Moses for neglecting to circumcise his son.
We could assume that in this situation, Moses would have circumcised his other son earlier, but for some reason (whether because of urgency to travel, or just plain neglect & apathy), one son had not gone under the knife. So, Moses' wife immediately dealt with this matter, thereby saving her husband's life, though not withholding him from a good tongue-lashing. This horrific occasion probably compelled Moses to understand & appreciate better that, as certain as God's Hand would come against him for disobeying God's Command, so to would God's Hand be even more potent & harsh against Pharaoh if he refuses to let the Israelites leave Egypt. Hope this helps a little.
I'm reading from the Cepher Millennium Edition. The word carbuncle refers to a rare stone in the first row of the breast plate of the high priest. Verse 5 speaks to music in a banquet of wine, is light a rare stone set in gold, (precious). Verse 6 re-edify verse 5 again showing the importance of music at a banquet, and verse 7 says refrain from speaking, if you must speak scarcely.
I'm assuming by what you have written in this thread that you are a single woman, or perhaps you are asking who a woman with no husband is supposed to ask (in response to 1 Corinthians 14:35). In this case, if a woman with no husband has questions during the service, why can't they ask the pastor afterwards? That's who they should be asking.
If you don't mind my asking, are you a pastor? And if I may ask a few more questions, in 1 Corinthians 14:34, women are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. Can you tell me what law this is referring to? Can you please share your understanding of 1 Timothy 2:11-12? What qualities must a pastor possess? Lastly, as far a church function, God has given us His order. Can you tell me what that order is?
Finally, I would like to say that all believers are equal, both men and women, but they have different functions and responsibilities. Does God use women to preach the gospel? Yes, but they are not to be placed in a position of authority over the men in the church. Regardless of what we think about this topic, the bible is clear that women are not allowed to be pastors!
I have been following along in this thread from the beginning and chose not to engage earlier because I thought there were some pretty solid answers given to support the fact that women are not allowed to be overseers or pastors in a church assembly. I would like to share a few thoughts of my own on this.
First, I am sorry to hear that you spent so much time reading from Genesis through Revelation trying to find where Paul said a woman shouldn't teach or be over a man. Since Paul's letters are only found in 13 books of the New Testament, you could have saved yourself a lot of time in your search.
You said, and I quote "I know he (Paul) gave the church of Corinthians instructions by writing them a letter in prison." I'm wondering how you know this for a fact since Paul was not in prison at the time he wrote the letter to the church in Corinth. Paul wrote this letter during his 3rd missionary journey, not while he was in prison.
I do agree with your conclusion on 1 Corinthians 14:34. Here, Paul is not giving instruction about who can or cannot pastor a church. Paul gives instruction elsewhere on this, and those sections of scripture have already been shared with you. Did you notice in this very same verse, it says nothing about the men? Also, you mention that you "have not read where Paul said a woman shouldn't teach or be over a man," but where does Paul say a woman can or should teach and be over a man? Or where does Paul say that a woman can be a pastor?
Thank you for your well-said reply, we must study, 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. This site is wonderful as long as we are respectful and honestly care for each other we can discuss anything in the Bible. I hope this inspires you to study, it warrants the study of both sides for your understanding. It is a subject that may take a long time in prayer and study, do it with open ears to the Holy Spirit.
God bless,
RLW
Thank you, you do not upset me and I hope I do not upset you, I understand how sensitive this subject is. The only way I know is, to be honest and say what is in my heart and what the Scriptures and my prayers have revealed to me. I am not trying to change anyone's beliefs or understanding. I have learned a lot since I have been on this site because of the brothers and sisters here who are willing to share their understanding in love and inspire each other to study, not an I'm right and you are wrong attitude.
I hope you feel you can discuss anything with me in love and respect, I am in my 70s and pretty tough-skinned. As long as our discussions are done in love and inspire each other to study even if we differ, we have the same objective to learn the truth.
My prayers are for you and your family as well.
God bless,
RLW
Colossians 4:6 - Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.
The command in Verse 6 is let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, in order that you might know how you ought to answer every man. To speak with grace is to speak under the influence of God's Spirit. It means to speak spiritual, wholesome, kind, sensitive, and truthful.
Seasoned with salt. Now salt served two purposes. Flavor is one. But preventing corruption is the other. They poured salt over the meat or food to prevent corruption of the food. Everything we say should be spoken with grace but seasoned with salt, preservation from corruption. And that we might know how we answer everyone. Everybody requires wisdom to know how to answer. Our words can be very destructive.
Colossians 4:10 - Aristarchus my fellowprisoner saluteth you, and Marcus, sister's son to Barnabas, (touching whom ye received commandments: if he come unto you, receive him;)
Aristarchus is a Greek name for a Jewish native that comes from Thessalonica, recorded for us in Acts 2:4, and Acts 27:2. Aristarchus was a fellowprisoner. He was locked up with Paul. Aristarchus greets you.
And next he says Marcus greets you. This is John Mark. This is the one that wrote the gospel of Mark, and also the one that went on the first missionary journey with Paul and Barnabas.
This is all I have to share in Colossians. I will be going over 1 Thessalonians next. We are getting into some shorter book, so this is moving along a little faster.
Blessings to you all in Christ Jesus!!!
Colossians 3:21 - Fathers, provoke not your children to anger, lest they be discouraged.
To provoke means to irritate. It has to do with punishing someone for something they didn't do just for the sake of punishing them. It's very frustrating to them, very irritating.
Colossians 4:3 - Withal praying also for us, that God would open unto us a door of utterance, to speak the mystery of Christ, for which I am also in bonds:
With praying also for us, that God would open to us a door of utterance, and door means a symbol of opportunity. He's praying for opportunity to speak. To speak what? To speak the mystery of Christ, for which I am also in bonds, or in chains. He says I'm in prison for this very thing, to get an opportunity to speak the mysteries of Christ.
Always nice to hear from you. Sorry for the late reply. I do want to thank you for sharing your understanding on this. I also want to thank you for continuing on in the studies that I am putting together and sharing. If I remember correctly, you have shared your view on this before with me so I don't see anything new that would warrant a response, at least nothing that we haven't already discussed in the past. We do have a different understanding, but that's okay. I will always respect your view and the things you have to share. Right now, I am not able to agree with what you are telling me while at the same time believing in the deity of Christ. It would be contradictive of me to do so.
Blessings to you also, my brother!
If the above interpretation troubles you, we can see another verse, Hebrews 1:5, "For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?"
What is meant by "this day I begotten you"? Does it refer to Jesus' physical birth? Lets see how Paul explains it in Acts 13:32-33, "32And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers,33God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee" So it is obvious that Paul considers that that birth" refers to Jesus' resurrection and not to His physical birth.
So lets go back to that "firstborn from the dead". I think it gets quite clear that it means that Jesus is the first to be resurrected from the dead. The rest to be resurrected is God's people, either now spiritually or later physically.
Since you were talking about the grk, I think I can contribute to this discussion.
Rev 3:14, "...the beginning(in grk "arche") of the creation of God;". The word "arche" has many meanings. It may mean "the begining" but it may mean something that is on top of all the others, such as a "principality".
For exmple, Ephessians 6:12, "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities(in grk archae), against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.". The grk for "principalities" in this verse is "archae" which is plural for "arche". Similarly Colossians 1:16, "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities(in grk archae), or powers: all things were created by him, and for him"
So we see that in both verses above the KJB corectly tranaslates the word "archae" as "principalities but wrongly translates it as "begining" in Rev 3:14. The grk "en" in Colossians may mean "in" but also "through". And the later is the right meaning here.
Col 1:17, "kai autos(and He) esti(is) pro panton(before everything), kai ta panta(and everything) en auto(in or through Him) sunesteke(are kept together)"
Lets see another verse that troubles a lot of people. Colossians 1:18, "And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning(in grk arche), the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.". Here the grk "arche" is corectly translated as "begining". The question is: what is really meant by "firstborn from the dead"? Many interpretation of this are given. The one that agrees with all the above verses that clearly show the divinity of Jesus is that Jesus(as a human) is the first child of God who was taken out from the dead (dead people spiritually). Who are the rest of those that are born by God? Us, His brothers and sisters. See pt 2
Please do not be upset by me saying these things. I am trying to interact with you in a way that is transparent and honest. I don't think that there needs to be complete agreement on all things on this forum and respect that people differ. But I am glad that now I have a better context to place your viewpoint within the stream of those who claim to be Christian believers.
May God bless you tonight and always. Your postings have cause me to dig deeper into viewpoints I was unaware of before I came on here. I think it is good to be thus informed so that conversations can be surrounded with better understanding and our responses can be more helpful.
I was just thinking of you today and considering some of what you have said in the past about viewing God as only one Person and that Jesus is not God in the flesh. I have wanted to better understand your view, as I have not encountered it before in all the years of my life. I found information on sects that deny the divinity of Jesus and these came up:
Jehovah's Witness,
Christadelphians
The Way International
Worldwide Church of God
Church of Christ (some)
I also found information on Socianism and Unitarianism. Perhaps you associate more with these two than the ones listed above. I reviewed the information on the history of Socianism and Unitarianism along with what is generally professed. These beliefs are very similar to what you have put forward in the past and I was able to read the biblical interpretation used to support these views.
And then, here you are tonight responding to Jesse on just the beliefs I was reading about. So all of this is timely. I am glad to find sources that explain your viewpoints more fully as you have not done so here due to limitations of such a forum.
Even so, the information does not change my trinitarian view of God, nor the deity of Jesus and the Biblical texts that show that Jesus is worshipped as God (for only God is to be worshipped). I hope we can continue to discuss these topics over time. I am confident that the Lord will lead us to a more refined truth from His Word.
Please know that I pray for you often along with so many others on this forum. I think of you fondly even though I do not agree with you on these matters and think that someone who denies the Trinity and the deity of Jesus is speaks false teaching that I believe leads to another gospel and another Jesus than what Scripture attests to.
Ronald, I say this not to be harsh with you, nor to berate you, nor to discourage you from presenting your viewpoint. Rather, I just want to convey to you that your view of God and Jesus disturbs me greatly
God asks Job."Where is the way where light dwelleth? and as for darkness, where is the place thereof?( Job 38.19). Under the everlasting covenant God separated light from darkness. "And God saw the light, that it was good" (Ge.1.4-5) What is good is from everlasting to everlasting."And God divided the light from the darkness./And God called the light Day".Consequently whatever day specified in the Bible must fall under the Law of the Spirit. Ancient of days signifies it. Under the covenant the 144,000 that stand on Mount Sion is waiting for the Marriage of the Lamb. "And the temple of God was opened in heaven." (Rev.11.19) When it is done we shall have as mentioned here," And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband." The city where light dwelleth is holy and is called the light of the Lamb.
Thus there is a way marked for the light, which we call as heavenly places and the direction is from east to west. The Spirit points the direction from which our blessings begin. "And a river went out of Eden to water the garden" and Adam was put in the garden, east of Eden. All subsequent movement of man is further east till the great river Euphrates is dried up."and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared."(Rev.16.12) Thus we have east as beginning and the ending of a way before tabernacle of God with man could commence.
Consider the saying of Jesus,"And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven./ But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness:" (Matt.8.11-12) God asks Job,"Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all." (J8.18) Man cannot measure the wisdom of God. He doesnot know the bread of the earth. Yet ignoramus speaks of third heaven as if he knows it.
You are welcome. I now that you have been caring for your mom for some time and that both of you have serious health issues as well financial need that likely you cannot remedy because you need to care for your mom. So I do remember to pray for you for some time now. It is heartbreaking to me to know that so many people are caring for ailing parents who need to be with them in such a way that one cannot work. And many, like you, have health issues that most likely keep you from working in the first place let alone needing to be with your Mom all day. May God bring help in all ways to you, your Mom, and others in similar situations.
We need to trust what the Bible actually says , not what we think it says , not what other people who we might like , think it says , what does it , the Word of God actually say ? It means what it says and says what it means . It doesn't mean what it doesn't say and it doesn't say what it doesn't mean . It really is that simple .
Thanks, brother, it's me again. I just wanted to give my understanding. Jesus was the beginning of God's plan and everything that was created was on the account of Jesus. As in Revelation 3:14 Jesus was the beginning of the creation of God. Jesus was in God's plan before anything was created and when the fullness of times; Jesus was conceived by the Holy Ghost born of Mary.
Colossians 1:16 starts with the Greek word hoti which means because, to explain reasons, and ev meaning in, because in him were all things. Also, the same Greek word ev, all things were created in him and for him, same in verse 17 Jesus was before, the Greek word pro, meaning in front of, in him all things were created. My understanding is that Jesus was the reason and purpose of all creation, to me this ties to Ephesians 1:9-11. The mystery of God's will in the fullness of times all things in Christ that were in God's plan that Jesus was the beginning of.
I know some believe Jesus created all and some believe Jesus is the tool that through Him God created all. To me, all of Scripture shows God the Father the one and only God created all. Jesus was the beginning of God's plan and all was for the sake of Jesus who is God's only begotten Son who was not until the fulness of times conceived by the Holy Ghost in Mary.
Ephesians 1:19-23 We have seen and are now seeing God's plan being fulfilled in Jesus all in heaven and earth until all enemies are under His feet, 1 Corinthians 15:23. Jesus did not have the authority He was given the authority. We were created for Jesus for the glory of God.
God bless,
RLW
Colossians 3:15 - And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.
Notice that this all comes under put on the new life. If you're saved and Christ is in you, it's a matter of deciding what way you're going to go. Let the peace of God rule in your hearts. The word peace, EIRENE means to be united. The peace of Christ, and the peace of God, it just means to be at one with Him. When I'm under the influence of God's Spirit, the unity that's already existing flows from one believer to the other in one body. The next command: and be ye thankful. That's not a human practice. That also is a ministry of God's Spirit. It's part of the new life. Just put it on!
Colossians 3:16 - Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
All of this in Verse 16 is the same concepts that are found in Ephesians 5:18-21. Many of the teachings in Ephesians are also in Colossians. In Ephesians 5:18, Paul says be filled with the Spirit which produces certain characteristics.
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; and there are three things that are produced by the word of God. And the word dwell means to make His home in your heart. Let the word of Christ make its home in you richly in all wisdom; by teaching, and these are called Modal Participles. By teaching, and by admonishing (warning) one another.
In psalms and hymns and spiritual songs. They used to use singing as a means of teaching. They would learn scriptures with music and would sing. But they would warn one another in singing of psalms and hymns and spiritual songs.
Thirdly, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. It doesn't say with your lips and vocal cords. What the bible is saying is whether you sing out loud, or sing to the Lord privately, it must come from your heart.
Colossians 3:12 - Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, and then he lists five things:
The first one is bowels of mercies. The Greeks always used the names of internal organs to express their deep affection and love. So, bowels of mercies would equal out to a heart of compassion. The word kindness is the word usefulness. Not all kindness is useful. Humbleness of mind is number three. Meekness basically means to be open and receptive to people. And then longsuffering means to be slow in human reaction to others as far as anger.
And then Verse 13 has two participles, which means these two are to be done at the same time as the others.
Colossians 3:13 - Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
Forbearing one another, which is the word for tolerance. Be continually tolerating one another and be continually forgiving one another. How can I do that? Put on the new life. Christ is already there. You're complete in Him. It's a matter of turning to Him.
And then the command: if any man have a quarrel against anyone: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye. Forgive them. How can I forgive like Christ forgives? It's because I have Christ. It's Him in me that ministers through me to others.
Colossians 3:14 - And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.
And above all these things, which literally in the Greek means add this to everything else. Put on charity, or agape, which is the bond of maturity, completeness. Put on love! And again, AGAPE is not a human action. Love is a fruit of God's Spirit.
Colossians 3:8 - But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
But now ye also put off all these; Anger, and that is a deep boiling anger. Wrath, which is a sudden outburst of anger. Malice, is general evil, just giving people a bad time. Blasphemy, and it is interesting that when this word is directed from human being to human being, it is translated slander. But when it's directed towards God it is called blasphemy. It's the same word and it has to do with slander.
And filthy communication from out of your mouth. You don't need to be rehabilitated. You just need to put it off. It's part of the old life.
Colossians 3:10 - And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
And that you have put on the new man, and that's the new regenerate man, which is renewed, and the word renewed means to acquire a new quality. In 2 Corinthians 5:17, Paul says we have become a new creation in Christ. The old things have passed away and all things have become new.
Which is renewed in knowledge, and the word knowledge means deep knowledge, thorough knowledge, after the image of him that created him: Our new man created in Christ! We have a new quality of life and a knowledge that other people do not get to know.
Colossians 3:2 - Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
Again, continually set your affection. And the word affection has to do with the frame of mind. This is the disposition of the mind, the attitude, the approach to life. Have a frame of mind that is set on things above and not things on the earth. The explanation is given to us in Verses 3 and 4.
Colossians 3:5 - Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
Interesting, it says mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth. Mortify means put to death. It means allow the members of your body and its desires to die. Stop trying to revive them. Stop trying to reach back in the old life. You're losing desire for those old things so let it die.
And he gives us a list of 5 things:
Fornication, which is sexual immorality. Uncleanness, which is all sexual impureness. Inordinate affection, which is physical passion. Evil concupiscence, which means evil mental desires. And covetousness, which we call greed. And the word covetousness literally in the Greek means the desire to have more. Being greedy and covetous is the desire to have more than what you have.
And notice what he calls it: which is idolatry: It's a form of worship and idolatry toward God to be greedy and have the desire to have more than what God has given you.
Colossians 3:7 - In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
In which you also walked some time (or literally once), when you lived in them, reminding them that they're now believers. They don't walk that way anymore. And so, he's telling them to put it off. There are two phrases that are used, to put on a coat, and to take off a coat. When he says put off, he means that. You got your old dirty clothes on again. Take the dirty clothes off and put the new life back on. It's as simple as that!
Colossians 2:14 - Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
The word handwriting means a hand written certificate of debt. The bible says that every person, as soon as they sin, they are indebted to God for the payment for that sin, which no one can pay. But He blotted it out, which was contrary to us, and He took it out of the way, He removed it. He removed the debt, nailing it to his cross;
That's a very interesting statement. You'll remember in Matthew 27:37 when Jesus was nailed on the cross, and this is true for every criminal, is that they would put a plaque above the person on the cross which would list their crimes.
And so that's what this phrase is making reference to, that all my offences were nailed to the cross, on that plaque if you would, all of my sins, and that Jesus died for me. He nailed my handwriting certificate of debt to the cross for me.
Colossians 3:1 - If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
It starts out by saying, if you then be risen with Christ. The word "if" used here is a First-Class Condition Assumed to be True. It is literally translated since. Since you then are risen with Christ, seek those things (There's your command) which are above, where Christ sits on the right hand of God.
The verb tense is continually seek the things above, the things of heaven, and not the things on the earth. So, we have to ask the question, what am I seeking? Every morning when I get up, I'm seeking something. Most of the time it's in the human. We're told that we are citizens of the kingdom of heaven, and we're to seek the things of Christ, not the things of the earth.
What helps me to believe what I shared with you earlier about Moses failing to circumcise his son, is that Moses already had two sons (Gershom & Eliezer) prior to his leaving with his family back to Egypt (Moses obeying God's Command). In Exodus 2:21,22 we read of his first son, Gershom and then in Exodus 4:20, we read that "Moses took his wife and his SONS, and set them upon an ass, and he returned to the land of Egypt". So, somewhere between those references, Zipporah gave birth to Eliezer ( 1 Chronicles 23:15, for Eliezer's name).
Then the question arises, 'if Moses, on his return to Egypt, was confronted by the LORD concerning the circumcision of his son, which son is being referred to - the first or second? And if it was the second son being referred to (as the text could infer), then the first son, Gershom, must have been circumcised on the eighth day after birth? So, from this event & the sparse Scriptures we have concerning it, I must 'assume' that Moses must have somehow learned about Abraham, the events surrounding him, & about circumcision, so that at least his (Moses') first son would have been circumcised according to what he learned (whether from an account passed down about Abraham or directly given to him by the LORD).
And the other sad thing I noted from Exodus 4:20, was about the anguish & pain the poor donkey must have endured, having to carry Zipporah & her sons altogether. Hopefully, Moses' family were all delicate in frame, making the long journey easy for everyone.
Your hope for your son and yourself is in the Lord Jesus Christ, our Great God and Savior, as stated in Titus 2:13; in the Father, our God Almighty, and the Holy Spirit who dwells in believers, so I recommend you keep spending your time and energies with God in prayer, asking for wisdom in this situation, for deliverance for your son, and the opening of doors for his care for the future.
I continue to keep you and Arthur in prayer. And I do recommend reading Psalms. Thanks for sharing this update. I am partnering with you in this distressing situation.
Is the discussion open for everyone ? Pentecost was the beginning of changes that Apostle Paul addressed.
Is it possible that Moses may not have known the ways of Abraham. the information was given to Abraham from God, God had instructed that the children (male) should all be circumcised on the 8th day after birth. because he grew up in the House of Pharoah. When he left to warn Pharaoh to let his people go. Moses Lean to his own understanding and did not acknowledge God of the things that should take place before he left , but for Zipporah his wife, she knew. He had help from his wife (Holy Ghost) helps us to know when we are in error.
would this be correct me to think about this process ( MAYBE)
"And he put forth a parable to those which were bidden, when he marked how they chose out the chief rooms; saying unto them." ( Lk. 14.7-11)
Parable works on principle of Similitude so heaven and the earth have truth in common. Thy word is truth cannot be denied. So a simple wedding feast in which local worthies appropriate place of honour while poor Lazarus is among the dogs and at the farthest set by the gate. " But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee." (14.10) The Jews took pride that they were people of the law but Jesus was implying their unworthiness when he laid down the kernel of the parable, "So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen."(Mt.20.16) So this commonplace event, a place for joy and social gathering has been hijacked by the devil to divide man created in 'our image' into hierarchy. So much so the most vile person who is made a President would want to wear a crown as well. Thus in the devil's disinformation space the meaner you get more honour you crave. So Solomon' advice was, "Put not forth thyself in the presence of the king, and stand not in the place of great men."(Prov.25.6)
The Lord from heaven was telling the truth. Eye has not seen ear has heard what God has reserved for those who love him. "Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel." Jesus was referring to the Gentile centurion's faith. "And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven./But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness."(Mt.8.10-12)"Be not thou afraid when one is made rich, when the glory of his house is increased;For when he dieth he shall carry nothing away"(Ps.49:16-17)
We could assume that in this situation, Moses would have circumcised his other son earlier, but for some reason (whether because of urgency to travel, or just plain neglect & apathy), one son had not gone under the knife. So, Moses' wife immediately dealt with this matter, thereby saving her husband's life, though not withholding him from a good tongue-lashing. This horrific occasion probably compelled Moses to understand & appreciate better that, as certain as God's Hand would come against him for disobeying God's Command, so to would God's Hand be even more potent & harsh against Pharaoh if he refuses to let the Israelites leave Egypt. Hope this helps a little.
(Part 2):
I'm assuming by what you have written in this thread that you are a single woman, or perhaps you are asking who a woman with no husband is supposed to ask (in response to 1 Corinthians 14:35). In this case, if a woman with no husband has questions during the service, why can't they ask the pastor afterwards? That's who they should be asking.
If you don't mind my asking, are you a pastor? And if I may ask a few more questions, in 1 Corinthians 14:34, women are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. Can you tell me what law this is referring to? Can you please share your understanding of 1 Timothy 2:11-12? What qualities must a pastor possess? Lastly, as far a church function, God has given us His order. Can you tell me what that order is?
Finally, I would like to say that all believers are equal, both men and women, but they have different functions and responsibilities. Does God use women to preach the gospel? Yes, but they are not to be placed in a position of authority over the men in the church. Regardless of what we think about this topic, the bible is clear that women are not allowed to be pastors!
(Part 1):
I have been following along in this thread from the beginning and chose not to engage earlier because I thought there were some pretty solid answers given to support the fact that women are not allowed to be overseers or pastors in a church assembly. I would like to share a few thoughts of my own on this.
First, I am sorry to hear that you spent so much time reading from Genesis through Revelation trying to find where Paul said a woman shouldn't teach or be over a man. Since Paul's letters are only found in 13 books of the New Testament, you could have saved yourself a lot of time in your search.
You said, and I quote "I know he (Paul) gave the church of Corinthians instructions by writing them a letter in prison." I'm wondering how you know this for a fact since Paul was not in prison at the time he wrote the letter to the church in Corinth. Paul wrote this letter during his 3rd missionary journey, not while he was in prison.
I do agree with your conclusion on 1 Corinthians 14:34. Here, Paul is not giving instruction about who can or cannot pastor a church. Paul gives instruction elsewhere on this, and those sections of scripture have already been shared with you. Did you notice in this very same verse, it says nothing about the men? Also, you mention that you "have not read where Paul said a woman shouldn't teach or be over a man," but where does Paul say a woman can or should teach and be over a man? Or where does Paul say that a woman can be a pastor?
Please see part 2