But Noah found grace in the eyes of theLord./These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God." (6:8-9)
The Spirit describing the generation of Noah gives us two division similar to the before and after in the case of Job. God blessed the latter half of Job. "So theLordblessed the latter end of Job more than his beginning."( Job 42:12). God had found him perfect, and there is no question of having to change it least of all before Satan. "Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?"( Job 1:8). The Spirit used the two divisions to show the divine Will is perfect and holiness of God allowed Job to be tempted even as did not spare his own Son. The blessings of his latter end covered both 'after our own image and after our likeness." Thus blessings went two fold where he was as double for his Son and in the estimation of God the Father as well.
In the case of Noah it is other way around. Before the flood he is after the likeness of his Son, the Man component in the everlasting covenant. So when God tells him of the covenant, "And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations."(9:12). God is referring to the existing covenant of Ge. Ch.1. "This covenant between God and Man in his Son is for 'perpetual generations." Under the bow in heaven it is addressed to all flesh, "And I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth." (9:16-17)
The dry land where Noah tended his crops recall his life of the flesh which is his second phase. In order to distinguish these two halves we have the age given. "And Noah did according unto all that theLordcommanded him./
Interesting, wasn't it also thought to be a walled garden or paradise and not in Eden but east of Eden or Edem? In Genesis 2:8 the Hebrew word gan translated garden also means enclosure so it could have been walled. If they were in an enclosure makes you wonder how they could carry out Genesis 1:28 before they were cast out in Genesis 3:27-28.
"And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died."
"And he died." This comes after God had set what quality his life shall have. In sorrow he had sin at the door to contend with. All the days of his life was a marker set on him and on sons of Adam. "in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;"(Ge.3:17) The ground was cursed for his sake. So what he left behind were sons and daughters 'after his likeness. It is what the chapter instructs us of his sons except for a few.
God counselled Cain and it fell on deaf ears as we can infer from consequences of Abel's murder. "If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him."(4:7) Sin is like a wolf waiting outside and knows the advantage of being domesticated. Once gained entry it may end up as his best friend and makes man know the system, or the way the world works and go high up in the world till thing get unravelling as we have seen some shakers and movers of the nations have come down as villains. In an anything goes society even a convicted felon is candidates for the highest office in the realm. In serving God and mammon, ungodly has no choice but their own unresolved prejudices and bigotry get flung back at their faces, with nail-studded jackboots. This is precisely what their sins in circulation have brought home.. Adam sinned and in sorrow survived fratricidal murder about the hearth. Finally he died.
In the case of Enoch he took well heed of the divine counsel to Cain. "If thou does well, shall thou not be accepted? So he walked with God. The Spirit inserts the same formula, All the days of his life. It meant the blessings provided in the everlasting covenant put him in heavenly places. All his life. Whether he slept or died physically is immaterial. (5:22-24). This explains the different order of resurrection.
Ge.5:1 "After our image and after our likeness" (2 of 2)
"After the likeness" is settled by the word of God . Thus Adam is qualified as the son of God.( Luke 3:39) As a living soul it is correct. But after he sinned what he produced "And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:" (In his likeness is different from 'after our likeness'.
After our image and after our likeness is illustrated by Adam after the creation of Eve. "This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man."(Ge.2:23). She is taken out of Christ. So church included both 'after our image and after our likeness'
In the genealogy we see Adam had other sons and daughters besides Seth. "And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters."(5:3-4) The Spirit makes a distinction between what is holy and what is not. Sons and daughters of Adam are after the flesh while Seth sets himself in place as the double for Jesus Christ.
Ge.5:1 "After our image and after our likeness" (1 of 2)
"This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;"
The Spirit is giving us one narrative thread to show the sons of Adam and the other in the likeness of God. Because in the holy family of God the latter had the seed in itself and would show with their fruits that they were blessed under the covenant in the Man component. The first example to be called the righteous one is Abel. By offering,"the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof," he showed that he was planted by God. His works proved it. ( 1 John 3:12). Seth proved it by stepping into the breach made by Cain. (4:25-26) His generation proved by faith. "Then began men to call upon the name of the Lord.". It answers the period 'in the beginning' the book opened with. Ge.1:1
"These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens," (2:4) The Spirit now begins with the period in the day that God created which also is tacked on to the generations of Adam where after our image and after our likeness are made distinct.
The second narrative thread gives us that of Jesus, "The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham."(Matt.1:1) Jesus as the son of David is "after our image" meaning according to the flesh as stated in this passage, "that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;"(Ac.2:29-30) There is another connection with regards to Abraham. Jesus tells the Jews that "Before Abraham was, I am." How did they receive it? They were the sons of Adam and did not have the truth in them. The truth signifies the seed that is in itself. "Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by."( John 8:58-59)
Blessed are counted, and they bear the name of the Lord. Holy is his name.( Luke 1:49) The Spirit gives us the connection of the name with works. They call on the name of the Lord and faith is the causative agent. We trace here the family of God under the everlasting covenant as distinct from those who belong to the outer darkness.
And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.
26And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of theLord.
The seed in itself is the word of God in our hearts. It has to have a body as it pleases the Lord. This explains a duration of time. So the 'then' refers to 'in the beginning' in Ge.1:1 and John 1:1
"And Cain went out from the presence of theLord, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden."
The Spirit uses the phrase 'on the east' of Eden to define what signified 'out from the presence of God.' It is the first reference to the usage of outer darkness. Generation of Cain and his descendants belong there. God sets a mark on Cain as he does with the first fruits mentioned in Re.14:1-4 "And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads." Signs and wonders mark the saints redeemed from the earth.
This chapter began with Adam, "And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from theLord." Carnal knowledge of sin begets only sin. It is thus Cain went bad. His name signified gift from the Lord. On the other hand the Spirit does not give a meaning to the name his sibling carried. But his works pleased the Lord. He had respect to the knowledge by the light shown into his heart. (2 Co.4:6) Knowledge when applied leads to understanding. Abels offering pleased God because of the slain Lamb. It signified the divine care that compensated for the loss of glory associated with his parents. He remembered the loss of God as well that his offering was some kind of compensation. Abel "brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And theLordhad respect unto Abel and to his offering." Every good and perfect gift is from above.
Cain was a gift from the Lord but it cannot be said of his offering, to which God had no respect. The ground was cursed for his father's sake. "Cain was a tiller of the ground./And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto theLord." Abel viewed offering from God's point of view as it were. Whereas Cain gave 'a tip' from the accursed ground with a 'take-it- or- leave-it' attitude. "Not as Cain,whowas of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous."( 1 John 3:12) In short his works showed his parentage.
Amen. The earth abides forever because it is the visible world framed by the word of God.(He.11:3. Ec.1:4) Fulfilment of the world unseen, the divine Will is signified by the earth.
The curse falls on the ground where the law of sin operates. The ground is a closed system so dust to dust works. In the new heaven and new earth is similarly given to the saints redeemed from the earth because they are under law of the Spirit and freed from curse and condemnation. For them Gal.3:13-14 works. "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree." In Re.21:24 we read that "And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it." God makes a distinction between these two laws. So the new heaven and new earth are a sign for them, thereby fulfilling the words of Isaiah, 'we are signs and wonders'. The city on a hill of the parable.
In order to keep this we have outer darkness introduced which under the day of regeneration is just qualified as earth instead of 'ground' and it is to which Re.21:24 refers. The nations moving eastwards after the great flood is mentioned when the river Euphrates is dried, "that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared."(Re.16:12)From the fall of man the people were on the move and those rejected Jesus and the Gentiles are all part of it. There is much more going on besides the Law of Moses and the nation of Israel who rejected the blessings God under the covenant (Ge.1:28). We were called in his Son and our selection is by grace and the fruits being our works abiding as his branches.
Thanks GiGi; and I hope you had a good time away, away from those noisy workers, at least.
I think what we are grappling with here, is the word, 'regeneration'. I understand you believe that 'regeneration' can happen at any time to the one who is 'elected to salvation' to enable him to come to salvation. Whereas, the word 'regenerate' to me means 're-birth', and not simply an awakening or displaying some propensity towards spiritual things. I'm sorry if I've not properly grasped your meaning, but that's what I gather.
The best verse I can think of for this matter is Titus 3:3-5:
"For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost, which he shed on us abundantly".
Paul of course, speaks of our former spiritual condition, then on God's Love & Kindness shown to sinful man (via the Gospel), and finally, that man could never save himself or make himself right before God, but could ONLY BE SAVED because of God's Mercy toward him. And how was his salvation effected? By 'regeneration' and by 'renewal', through the Holy Ghost.
If this sinner was first regenerated, so he could repent, respond, or approach God for salvation, then why would he need to do these things, for he was already regenerated & renewed by the Holy Ghost? And this question I had just posed to David0921. So, regeneration to me equates to re-birth, for I can't perceive that a regenerative Work of God is any less than that. If anything, as stated in another post of mine, I see the 'convicting, drawing, compelling' Work of the Holy Spirit urging the unregenerated soul - but this I wouldn't consider as a regenerative work. Thanks for your input here.
Hello Chris, I've been following this conversation over the past week.
I happen to agree with David in that one who is dead in sin must be regenerated in order to believe the gospel. It seems that yoo may think that being born again always happen at the same time as one being saved (within a short time frame)
I guess I think that it is God who regenerates any and all who are elected to salvation, and that conversion is not always a matter of a short time frame. From God's perspective, He can regenerate anyone and bring them to repentance and faith in a short period of time or over a more lengthy time frame. Yet from the standpoint of the person elected, they may not truly know when they exactly they were regenerated, but may know when they first believed the gospel and realized that they are saved.
I do believe only a regenerated person can cry out to God to save them because an unregenerated man will never desire to turn to God and seek salvation from God. But the God who regenerates is the One who brings one to repentance, a desire to petition God for salvation, and faith to believe the gospel (at which time the person realizes that they HAVE been saved by Jesus).
I hope I am not being confusing here or not presenting my ideas clearly. Even so, I hope that my thoughts may cause some to think deeply on this matter rather than in a superficial way (not that I think you are that way).
He who began the good work in you is faithful to complete it. (I can't recall the verse that says this at the moment, but it is clear that all that we are commanded to do to be saved is accomplished by the grace and action of God in the total process of our salvation) Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith. God does all that is needed for us to be saved. After we realize that we are born again and saved, we can look back and say that it is all of God, not by my effort, choice, or desire, but His election and sovereign power to make alive that which is dead to Him.
Ephesians 2:1,8-10. As earlier mentioned, these verses show that we were dead in sin, but now made spiritually alive. And this has happed by God's Grace & God's Faith that are given to the sinner under conviction so that he might be saved. Grace & Faith must be present before re-birth - not after; if after re-birth, then there is no point in such needed Grace & Faith after salvation, for salvation is already received.
You may "fail to see how my understanding fits with any of the verses you have quoted", so I've shared what my understanding of those verses is. "Universal Atonement", or better, 'The Gospel to be brought to all people' is taught in the Bible ( John 3:16, Matthew 28:18-20), that all need to hear of this Good News of Salvation & express faith in Jesus' finished Work to be accepted of God. Or else, the Holy Spirit should have alerted Paul, Peter, and others as to specific individuals that should hear, receive the Gospel & be saved, to the exclusion of all others. And I simply don't find them doing any such thing or even teaching it. True, the Lord knows who will come to Him in repentance & faith, but all must have the opportunity to hear & respond. And those who seriously attend to the Gospel & affected by it, will surely engage the Spirit's ministry to lead that lost sinful soul to the point of repentance & calling upon the Lord for salvation. Romans 10:12-17.
My husband and I were away for the weekend for a short getaway amidst all the remodel work going on in our home.
On our way driving back home we were talking about Father's Day and he remarked that his sisters had not texted him to say Happy Father's Day. I said, well they make sure that they text each other to say Happy Mother's Day to each other but since Father's Day is not addressed to the, they skipped wishing you one. He agreed that I as spot on about that. Then he told me about how Father's Day got started by a daughter of a single dad who wondered why there was a Mother's Day but not a Father's Day and so she began the tradition many decades after Mother's Day was begun.
Then he said that he had heard a "rule of thumb" for dads, celebrate Father's Day, but don't make it bigger than Mother's Day!
We laughed about that. I said that either day doesn't matter that much to me because they are both created by humans, not God. But then I said, "You know, since you say I think like a man, then obviously I am not like your sisters." We laughed about that, because it is so true of me in so many ways! I am just not overly emotional or manipulative about special days and gifts and stuff. We are plain folk and just don't get all worked up about going all in for such celebrations, but we do acknowledge them to one another with simple celebrations.
Kind of crazy how the worldly ways of our society try to work people up for such things (and make a profit to boot).
We are to honor our fathers and mothers, as the Lord directed us to do as well as those in our sphere who are elderly and value their wisdom and stories of how they lived with far less convenience than we have and still lived to be a ripe old age by God's will. The term "OK Boomer" is one of those phrases that show contempt and disrespect for those who are decades older than the younger generation as if we do not have anything valuable to transmit to them to take into consideration.
You've given some Scriptures here David0921, to which I will respond.
Romans 9:13-16. From Romans 9:1-23, the apostle is speaking about his kinsmen, the Jews; that God had selected Isaac through whom would come Jacob & all of Israel - as opposed to Esau (who was rejected), even though he was the firstborn. All this Paul rehearses before his readers to show that God's promises will be realized, according to His Word, that "In Isaac shall thy seed be called". God was not being partial to one & not the other, but in God's Knowledge & Plan, one was accepted to the rejection of the other.
Here then is God's selection process - not for salvation (since each person has to demonstrate faith & love to God regardless of which tribe or nation they belong to), but of election & receiving the Promises of God. And so Paul goes on in Romans 9:24-33, to show that those of Israel who have rejected the LORD, & not come by faith ( Romans 9:30-32), have been cut out of the olive tree, with the Gentiles being engrafted in (only if the Gentiles stand in faith, Romans 11:20). Why have I written all this? Only to show that the process of leading to salvation (which we're discussing now) is not revealed here, but of who are God's Elect - that the Gospel would now go to the Gentiles, the Jew having rejected it ( Acts 13:46-48).
Jeremiah 17:9. Fully agree as mentioned previously.
Joel 2:12-14. You might need to give your reason for mentioning this Scripture, as I'm unable to relate it to what we're discussing.
Ezekiel 36:24-28. I understand this passage is still in the future (probably during the Millennial rule of Christ), when Israel finally acknowledges their Messiah, receiving a new heart & new spirit. Btw, I do NOT subscribe to Replacement Theology, inasfar as Israel no longer being a part of prophetic fulfilment and the Church is now the new Israel.
I'm sorry but I fail to see how your understanding fits with any of the verses I have quoted.
Universal Atonement and Freewill relative to salvation are not taught in the Bible despite verses that when isolated may appear to do so.
When coming to conclusions regarding the Bible, all of the verses that relate must harmonize.
Unfortunately, failure to follow the Biblical principles of interpretation in virtually every church and denomination have contributed to teachings on critical doctrines, like the Nature of Salvation that are all over the map and ultimately place man and not God in control.
Hebrews 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
HAPPY FATHER'S DAY
As I walk around this afternoon I hear bellicose voices likely imbibing alcohol where men are wishing themselves a happy Father's day. This follows a sermon on the subject by our Deacon (as our Pastor is out of town this week). The concept of that sermon was demographics; differences between thought processes of men vs women; the fact that one thing women can do men cannot (giving birth); and finally scriptures on how men ought to be; and the scriptural plan for manhood followed by marriage followed by becoming a Father with the emphasis on the covenant between one man and one woman for life.
As I explore the verse quoted above; it is hard not to see how (as part of the sermon also brought forth as a concept) that kids today have lost a work ethic and are basically unruly not hearing the word "NO" from youth. This; of course has to do with one or both parents but as we all know the emasculation of true manhood has left many children feeling insecure; never being able to settle down. That would naturally extend to an unhealthy desire to acquire material possessions; as well as setting a bad example for their own children. There also is the fallout from those who have relationships and lifestyles that are either deviant or not sanctioned by scripture as traditional marriage has been given a bum rap. Hence we also see a disrespect and lack of honor of elderly people who are often ignored and placed into a Nursing Home and not listened to for their wisdom and practical advice.
There are cases where single fathers clearly ARE the best choice as opposed to mothers who are beset with addiction or other issues. Clearly a two parent home is the best environment as studying data makes pretty self evident under MOST circumstances.
God didn't want to curse Adam and Eve so He cursed the ground/earth instead, Genesis 3:17 "And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;". He also cursed the serpent, verse 14.
That curse ended with Noah, Genesis 5:29, "And he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the LORD hath cursed."
The ground is only one part. Without considering both ground and the heavenly places carnal wisdom gives the ungodly a wrong prognosis. War on terror in Iraq led to something least expected. It has been thus from the beginning,
Whereas the Law of the Spirit lays down another rule. This has been declared before the foundation of the world. John hears the Word announce it. "And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them."(Re.14:13)
'Henceforth' is similar to the phrases the Spirit uses. It is enacted when the Lamb slain breaks open the first seal. The rider on the white horse goes forth conquering and to conquer. (Re.6:2). The martyrs are blessed because he shall slay the wicked one,"whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming"(2 The.2:8:-12). Re.19:15.
"Of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;"
Ground also implies human existence where disobedience sown by one man brings a bumper crop of misery. Labor is wasted and famine and pestilence are ever waiting to come in. Tree of life judged man who ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. What good is to use killer weeds and have the forever chemicals in the water you drink? What good is to save a burning brand out of fire only to have it set your own house in fire?
Only God is good and who is restoring the world ravaged by sin. "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil." ( 1 John 3:8). The West is as much compromised by the works of the devil. We often heard ad nauseam the six millions Jews perishing in the holocaust. Do we hear as much of lives lost by the West. In 1943 was the Bengal famine owing to the wrong policies of Great Britain. Three million lives perished by their policies. Have they even publicly acknowledged their guilt? It is thus nations have shown their hypocrisy.
The West has thus interfered in the 'Jewish question' of the last century to see another kind of ethnic cleansing and genocide now going on before them in the present times. Growing up complacent and being complicit in their crimes does not leave the future generation free from guilt. It is sin where faithless generation shall flounder in the moral morass of their fathers. It is what law of sin demands the devil's due since sinful man is a servant to the devil.
The ground is only one part. Without considering both ground and the heavenly places carnal wisdom gives the ungodly a wrong prognosis. War on terror in Iraq led to something least expected. It has been thus from the beginning.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. 14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then it is NOT OF HIM THE WILLETH, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Jeremiah 17:9 The HEART is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Joel 2:12-14
12 Therefore also now, saith the LORD, turn ye even to me with ALL YOUR HEART, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning: 13 And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil. 14 WHO KNOWETH if he will return and repent, and leave a blessing behind him; even a meat offering and a drink offering unto the LORD your God?
Ezekiel 36:24-28
24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A NEW HEART also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. 28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
Eph 2:1,8-10
1 And you hath he quickened, who were DEAD in trespasses and sins;
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
"Unto Adam also and to his wife did theLordGod make coats of skins, and clothed them."(v.21)
God making coats of skins reiterates the idea 'without shedding of the blood there is no remission of sins.' Where law of sin existed God pointed what to look for. The Law of the Spirit was demonstrated in the mind of Christ which is to be understood spiritually. Example of Seth as an intercessor is a case in point." After our likeness" established the fulness of Jesus Christ so whosoever believed in him entered into the covenant, in his Man component. So Law of Moses was intended as a BandAid cure for one slain by law of sin. The brazen serpent on the pole explains it.
That is faith brethren while a rational man contradicts himself with his mouth. He is a fool, a know nothing. Before him casting pearls may not always end up happily. We may see it in our case. Does anyone think if the imposter church is shown to be wrong in showing they are following doctrine of men and not the gospel of God set forth in the covenant in the opening chapters. that they shall disband and revere God and His holiness?
The entire episode of Eden and the Fall of man takes place in the heavenly places. It is same as we are called to do. We are dead to the world and our lives are hid in Christ. Similarly his life 'hid in Christ meaning that he is created ;after our image and after our likeness'. We produce nevertheless fruits of the Spirit proving the seed in itself, so quality of it proves if we are good or bad tree. What God has not planted shall be cast forth for fire. God has not revised his blessings held out under the covenant.
The Spirit never mentioned the first martyr as dead, Instead he slept. God is the God of the living so their death merely follows God's warning, "And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit./And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.?(Ac.7:59-60) Spirit goes to its set place as what is formed of the ground to its place.
"In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return."
"Sweat of thy face"
St Paul makes a distinction between the face and heart. "For all thingsarefor your sakes, that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving of many redound to the glory of God./For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inwardmanis renewed day by day."(2 Co.4:15-16) Face refers to outward man while heart is a spiritual space about heart which is not any anatomical part. Like the throne is used with reference to the earth as a footstool. It is thus we set Law of the Spirit far above the ground to which the law of sin rules the roost.
So what is face? We have the face of heaven declaring the glory of God as face of Cain was noticeable. "And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell./And theLordsaid unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?"(Ge.4:5-6) Consider this verse,"For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, togivethe light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ."(2 Co.4:6). The Spirit sets face as the interface between God and man. This is a direct reference to this statement, "And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters./And God said, Let there be light: and there was light."(Ge.1:2-3)
"The light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ" working with our inner man does something to the heart which is knowledge leading to understanding. "The fear of theLordis the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding."(Pr.9:10). Thus no man may excuse that he was ignorant of the Law of the Spirit. When God commanded, 'Fiat Lux!' our inner man knows. That is faith brethren while a rational man contradicts himself with his mouth.
Hello JBTthe3rd. The word 'Sanctification' is from the Latin, 'sanctificare' (to make holy), and 'sanctus' (holy). We also get the word, 'Saint' from this word. The very real meaning of 'Separation' is also involved in this word, as that which is unholy cannot fuse with that which is holy, but must be set apart from it.
We can look at Sanctification in generally three aspects:
a. a true believer in God, having been saved & redeemed through Jesus' Sacrifice, is said to be 'Positionally Sanctified'. That is, by virtue of now being a child of God, through Jesus His Son, the Christian is Separated & made Holy unto God by this position in Christ ( 1 Corinthians 1:30; 1 Peter 1:2).
b. as the believer walks this new separated life, he is also 'Experientially Sanctified'. When we grow in knowledge & experience of our Lord & Savior, we grow to be more like Jesus, hating & avoiding sin and displaying more & more of the Fruit of the Holy Spirit ( Philippians 2:13, Galatians 5:22-25).
c. we can know that we are truly in Christ, separated from the world & its lusts; we can also desire to grow to be more Christ-like in all our ways; but since the pull of the flesh is always at war with our spirit, we long for the day for our 'Future Sanctification', when our earthly struggles will be over and we will be taken into Christ Jesus' Presence (whether in the Rapture or through the veil of death), and we will be entirely perfect (without any stain of sin) & become as He is Holy & Perfect ( 1 John 3:1-3, Ephesians 5:27, Jude 1:24,25).
So the problem is: if God saves BEFORE we can believe - and Belief/Faith can only happen at the moment of salvation, what then is the penitent sinner believing & calling out to God in faith, if it is not Believing & Faith itself. Rather, it may be better stated, 'that the Holy Spirit at the proper time gives the needed Grace & Faith to believe ( Ephesians 2:8), yet the sinner coming to the Lord still needs Faith to believe by the Grace of God - and I believe that this Faith in no way contributes to God's Work of Salvation. As well, if a sinner is born again, he already has expressed belief/faith, therefore it cannot happen at or after salvation is given.
Acts 16:30,31, describes this matter well. The Philippian jailer, after seeing what took place in his prison, cried out to Paul & Silas, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" The jailer was still unregenerate at this point, when Paul & Silas said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house". The jailer, as all sinners, have to believe on Jesus & His finished Work for them - and this belief is when they are still in sin & not at or after salvation.
If the sinner has been true about himself & his need before God, the assurance of that great Work of Salvation is now completed in him & he steps out in great joy & great desire to follow the path of holiness. This I understand is 'Born Again', its work in the sinner & the change of life that ensues.
To the other part of your comment. You stated, "I want to make it clear that there is no salvation without repentance from sin and a broken and contrite heart before God. But this again is the work of God within us as He is drawing and saving us. It is not due to any inherent character within us."
Given what you've stated here & what we've discussed earlier, you state that this (repentance & brokenness) is the Work of God within us as He is drawing and saving us. But back to our problem: if this is the Work of God (to bring about repentance & brokenness), surely this is the unsaved sinner's response before God - that which you have written can never happen, since such a response would be adding to God's Work. As I remember, you've stated previously that it is only God Who saves: "We must be Born Again as God applies His Salvation to those whom He saves BEFORE we can believe with our whole heart. That is Salvation. And our Belief, our Faith is the RESULT of God applying salvation to one of His elect. And is not because we have "accepted" an offer of salvation". (continued on Page 3).
Thank you David0921 for your response. I would align myself with most of what you've written concerning biblical inspiration, that the Word of God is indeed wholly authored by God. Yet, when I read 2 Timothy 3:16, that "ALL scripture is given by the inspiration of God", I would be in conflict with some who hold fervently that what we read now (from the ancient recordings, also the KJB) are the actual Words that God (by His Spirit) spoke to godly men to write. "Inspiration" to me, doesn't mean that God dictated the Words to record, nor does it mean that the fingers of the writers were gripped by Him to pen those holy Words. Rather, as men recorded down what they saw or learned, God's Spirit was present to help them record accurately and remember correctly. That said, since you brought it up, I'll move on.
"What do I believe the Bible says about the term BORN AGAIN?" When we have Scriptures such as John 3:3-8, 1 Peter 1:22-23, 1 John 2:29, 1 John 5:1, & others in John's epistle, we can believe that this re-birth is wholly of God & not of man's doing or involvement; that re-birth is a spiritual birth, whereby God gives us a new spirit (His Spirit) Who always inclines us towards God & His Son; that God's Ministry to us can only be to our revived spirit in us and not to the flesh that has no desire after godly things. Therefore, we are to continue to crucify our flesh which lusts against the Holy Spirit ( Galatians 5:17) in us & distracts us from serving God acceptably & in fear. Therefore, by the Holy Spirit in us, we have become new creatures in Christ Jesus, reckoning ourselves to be dead unto sin but alive unto God through Jesus Christ. This re-birth must be the final Work of God in the sometimes lengthy course in a person's struggle dealing with conviction of sin, brokenness, humility, & cry for a Savior to save & redeem him. (continued on Page 2).
But Noah found grace in the eyes of theLord./These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God." (6:8-9)
The Spirit describing the generation of Noah gives us two division similar to the before and after in the case of Job. God blessed the latter half of Job. "So theLordblessed the latter end of Job more than his beginning."( Job 42:12). God had found him perfect, and there is no question of having to change it least of all before Satan. "Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?"( Job 1:8). The Spirit used the two divisions to show the divine Will is perfect and holiness of God allowed Job to be tempted even as did not spare his own Son. The blessings of his latter end covered both 'after our own image and after our likeness." Thus blessings went two fold where he was as double for his Son and in the estimation of God the Father as well.
In the case of Noah it is other way around. Before the flood he is after the likeness of his Son, the Man component in the everlasting covenant. So when God tells him of the covenant, "And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations."(9:12). God is referring to the existing covenant of Ge. Ch.1. "This covenant between God and Man in his Son is for 'perpetual generations." Under the bow in heaven it is addressed to all flesh, "And I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth." (9:16-17)
The dry land where Noah tended his crops recall his life of the flesh which is his second phase. In order to distinguish these two halves we have the age given. "And Noah did according unto all that theLordcommanded him./
Interesting, wasn't it also thought to be a walled garden or paradise and not in Eden but east of Eden or Edem? In Genesis 2:8 the Hebrew word gan translated garden also means enclosure so it could have been walled. If they were in an enclosure makes you wonder how they could carry out Genesis 1:28 before they were cast out in Genesis 3:27-28.
God bless,
RLW
"And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died."
"And he died." This comes after God had set what quality his life shall have. In sorrow he had sin at the door to contend with. All the days of his life was a marker set on him and on sons of Adam. "in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;"(Ge.3:17) The ground was cursed for his sake. So what he left behind were sons and daughters 'after his likeness. It is what the chapter instructs us of his sons except for a few.
God counselled Cain and it fell on deaf ears as we can infer from consequences of Abel's murder. "If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him."(4:7) Sin is like a wolf waiting outside and knows the advantage of being domesticated. Once gained entry it may end up as his best friend and makes man know the system, or the way the world works and go high up in the world till thing get unravelling as we have seen some shakers and movers of the nations have come down as villains. In an anything goes society even a convicted felon is candidates for the highest office in the realm. In serving God and mammon, ungodly has no choice but their own unresolved prejudices and bigotry get flung back at their faces, with nail-studded jackboots. This is precisely what their sins in circulation have brought home.. Adam sinned and in sorrow survived fratricidal murder about the hearth. Finally he died.
In the case of Enoch he took well heed of the divine counsel to Cain. "If thou does well, shall thou not be accepted? So he walked with God. The Spirit inserts the same formula, All the days of his life. It meant the blessings provided in the everlasting covenant put him in heavenly places. All his life. Whether he slept or died physically is immaterial. (5:22-24). This explains the different order of resurrection.
"After the likeness" is settled by the word of God . Thus Adam is qualified as the son of God.( Luke 3:39) As a living soul it is correct. But after he sinned what he produced "And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:" (In his likeness is different from 'after our likeness'.
After our image and after our likeness is illustrated by Adam after the creation of Eve. "This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man."(Ge.2:23). She is taken out of Christ. So church included both 'after our image and after our likeness'
In the genealogy we see Adam had other sons and daughters besides Seth. "And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters."(5:3-4) The Spirit makes a distinction between what is holy and what is not. Sons and daughters of Adam are after the flesh while Seth sets himself in place as the double for Jesus Christ.
"This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;"
The Spirit is giving us one narrative thread to show the sons of Adam and the other in the likeness of God. Because in the holy family of God the latter had the seed in itself and would show with their fruits that they were blessed under the covenant in the Man component. The first example to be called the righteous one is Abel. By offering,"the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof," he showed that he was planted by God. His works proved it. ( 1 John 3:12). Seth proved it by stepping into the breach made by Cain. (4:25-26) His generation proved by faith. "Then began men to call upon the name of the Lord.". It answers the period 'in the beginning' the book opened with. Ge.1:1
"These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens," (2:4) The Spirit now begins with the period in the day that God created which also is tacked on to the generations of Adam where after our image and after our likeness are made distinct.
The second narrative thread gives us that of Jesus, "The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham."(Matt.1:1) Jesus as the son of David is "after our image" meaning according to the flesh as stated in this passage, "that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;"(Ac.2:29-30) There is another connection with regards to Abraham. Jesus tells the Jews that "Before Abraham was, I am." How did they receive it? They were the sons of Adam and did not have the truth in them. The truth signifies the seed that is in itself. "Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by."( John 8:58-59)
Blessed are counted, and they bear the name of the Lord. Holy is his name.( Luke 1:49) The Spirit gives us the connection of the name with works. They call on the name of the Lord and faith is the causative agent. We trace here the family of God under the everlasting covenant as distinct from those who belong to the outer darkness.
And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.
26And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of theLord.
The seed in itself is the word of God in our hearts. It has to have a body as it pleases the Lord. This explains a duration of time. So the 'then' refers to 'in the beginning' in Ge.1:1 and John 1:1
"And Cain went out from the presence of theLord, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden."
The Spirit uses the phrase 'on the east' of Eden to define what signified 'out from the presence of God.' It is the first reference to the usage of outer darkness. Generation of Cain and his descendants belong there. God sets a mark on Cain as he does with the first fruits mentioned in Re.14:1-4 "And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads." Signs and wonders mark the saints redeemed from the earth.
This chapter began with Adam, "And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from theLord." Carnal knowledge of sin begets only sin. It is thus Cain went bad. His name signified gift from the Lord. On the other hand the Spirit does not give a meaning to the name his sibling carried. But his works pleased the Lord. He had respect to the knowledge by the light shown into his heart. (2 Co.4:6) Knowledge when applied leads to understanding. Abels offering pleased God because of the slain Lamb. It signified the divine care that compensated for the loss of glory associated with his parents. He remembered the loss of God as well that his offering was some kind of compensation. Abel "brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And theLordhad respect unto Abel and to his offering." Every good and perfect gift is from above.
Cain was a gift from the Lord but it cannot be said of his offering, to which God had no respect. The ground was cursed for his father's sake. "Cain was a tiller of the ground./And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto theLord." Abel viewed offering from God's point of view as it were. Whereas Cain gave 'a tip' from the accursed ground with a 'take-it- or- leave-it' attitude. "Not as Cain,whowas of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous."( 1 John 3:12) In short his works showed his parentage.
Amen. The earth abides forever because it is the visible world framed by the word of God.(He.11:3. Ec.1:4) Fulfilment of the world unseen, the divine Will is signified by the earth.
The curse falls on the ground where the law of sin operates. The ground is a closed system so dust to dust works. In the new heaven and new earth is similarly given to the saints redeemed from the earth because they are under law of the Spirit and freed from curse and condemnation. For them Gal.3:13-14 works. "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree." In Re.21:24 we read that "And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it." God makes a distinction between these two laws. So the new heaven and new earth are a sign for them, thereby fulfilling the words of Isaiah, 'we are signs and wonders'. The city on a hill of the parable.
In order to keep this we have outer darkness introduced which under the day of regeneration is just qualified as earth instead of 'ground' and it is to which Re.21:24 refers. The nations moving eastwards after the great flood is mentioned when the river Euphrates is dried, "that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared."(Re.16:12)From the fall of man the people were on the move and those rejected Jesus and the Gentiles are all part of it. There is much more going on besides the Law of Moses and the nation of Israel who rejected the blessings God under the covenant (Ge.1:28). We were called in his Son and our selection is by grace and the fruits being our works abiding as his branches.
I think what we are grappling with here, is the word, 'regeneration'. I understand you believe that 'regeneration' can happen at any time to the one who is 'elected to salvation' to enable him to come to salvation. Whereas, the word 'regenerate' to me means 're-birth', and not simply an awakening or displaying some propensity towards spiritual things. I'm sorry if I've not properly grasped your meaning, but that's what I gather.
The best verse I can think of for this matter is Titus 3:3-5:
"For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost, which he shed on us abundantly".
Paul of course, speaks of our former spiritual condition, then on God's Love & Kindness shown to sinful man (via the Gospel), and finally, that man could never save himself or make himself right before God, but could ONLY BE SAVED because of God's Mercy toward him. And how was his salvation effected? By 'regeneration' and by 'renewal', through the Holy Ghost.
If this sinner was first regenerated, so he could repent, respond, or approach God for salvation, then why would he need to do these things, for he was already regenerated & renewed by the Holy Ghost? And this question I had just posed to David0921. So, regeneration to me equates to re-birth, for I can't perceive that a regenerative Work of God is any less than that. If anything, as stated in another post of mine, I see the 'convicting, drawing, compelling' Work of the Holy Spirit urging the unregenerated soul - but this I wouldn't consider as a regenerative work. Thanks for your input here.
I happen to agree with David in that one who is dead in sin must be regenerated in order to believe the gospel. It seems that yoo may think that being born again always happen at the same time as one being saved (within a short time frame)
I guess I think that it is God who regenerates any and all who are elected to salvation, and that conversion is not always a matter of a short time frame. From God's perspective, He can regenerate anyone and bring them to repentance and faith in a short period of time or over a more lengthy time frame. Yet from the standpoint of the person elected, they may not truly know when they exactly they were regenerated, but may know when they first believed the gospel and realized that they are saved.
I do believe only a regenerated person can cry out to God to save them because an unregenerated man will never desire to turn to God and seek salvation from God. But the God who regenerates is the One who brings one to repentance, a desire to petition God for salvation, and faith to believe the gospel (at which time the person realizes that they HAVE been saved by Jesus).
I hope I am not being confusing here or not presenting my ideas clearly. Even so, I hope that my thoughts may cause some to think deeply on this matter rather than in a superficial way (not that I think you are that way).
He who began the good work in you is faithful to complete it. (I can't recall the verse that says this at the moment, but it is clear that all that we are commanded to do to be saved is accomplished by the grace and action of God in the total process of our salvation) Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith. God does all that is needed for us to be saved. After we realize that we are born again and saved, we can look back and say that it is all of God, not by my effort, choice, or desire, but His election and sovereign power to make alive that which is dead to Him.
Ephesians 2:1,8-10. As earlier mentioned, these verses show that we were dead in sin, but now made spiritually alive. And this has happed by God's Grace & God's Faith that are given to the sinner under conviction so that he might be saved. Grace & Faith must be present before re-birth - not after; if after re-birth, then there is no point in such needed Grace & Faith after salvation, for salvation is already received.
You may "fail to see how my understanding fits with any of the verses you have quoted", so I've shared what my understanding of those verses is. "Universal Atonement", or better, 'The Gospel to be brought to all people' is taught in the Bible ( John 3:16, Matthew 28:18-20), that all need to hear of this Good News of Salvation & express faith in Jesus' finished Work to be accepted of God. Or else, the Holy Spirit should have alerted Paul, Peter, and others as to specific individuals that should hear, receive the Gospel & be saved, to the exclusion of all others. And I simply don't find them doing any such thing or even teaching it. True, the Lord knows who will come to Him in repentance & faith, but all must have the opportunity to hear & respond. And those who seriously attend to the Gospel & affected by it, will surely engage the Spirit's ministry to lead that lost sinful soul to the point of repentance & calling upon the Lord for salvation. Romans 10:12-17.
My husband and I were away for the weekend for a short getaway amidst all the remodel work going on in our home.
On our way driving back home we were talking about Father's Day and he remarked that his sisters had not texted him to say Happy Father's Day. I said, well they make sure that they text each other to say Happy Mother's Day to each other but since Father's Day is not addressed to the, they skipped wishing you one. He agreed that I as spot on about that. Then he told me about how Father's Day got started by a daughter of a single dad who wondered why there was a Mother's Day but not a Father's Day and so she began the tradition many decades after Mother's Day was begun.
Then he said that he had heard a "rule of thumb" for dads, celebrate Father's Day, but don't make it bigger than Mother's Day!
We laughed about that. I said that either day doesn't matter that much to me because they are both created by humans, not God. But then I said, "You know, since you say I think like a man, then obviously I am not like your sisters." We laughed about that, because it is so true of me in so many ways! I am just not overly emotional or manipulative about special days and gifts and stuff. We are plain folk and just don't get all worked up about going all in for such celebrations, but we do acknowledge them to one another with simple celebrations.
Kind of crazy how the worldly ways of our society try to work people up for such things (and make a profit to boot).
We are to honor our fathers and mothers, as the Lord directed us to do as well as those in our sphere who are elderly and value their wisdom and stories of how they lived with far less convenience than we have and still lived to be a ripe old age by God's will. The term "OK Boomer" is one of those phrases that show contempt and disrespect for those who are decades older than the younger generation as if we do not have anything valuable to transmit to them to take into consideration.
Blessings
You've given some Scriptures here David0921, to which I will respond.
Romans 9:13-16. From Romans 9:1-23, the apostle is speaking about his kinsmen, the Jews; that God had selected Isaac through whom would come Jacob & all of Israel - as opposed to Esau (who was rejected), even though he was the firstborn. All this Paul rehearses before his readers to show that God's promises will be realized, according to His Word, that "In Isaac shall thy seed be called". God was not being partial to one & not the other, but in God's Knowledge & Plan, one was accepted to the rejection of the other.
Here then is God's selection process - not for salvation (since each person has to demonstrate faith & love to God regardless of which tribe or nation they belong to), but of election & receiving the Promises of God. And so Paul goes on in Romans 9:24-33, to show that those of Israel who have rejected the LORD, & not come by faith ( Romans 9:30-32), have been cut out of the olive tree, with the Gentiles being engrafted in (only if the Gentiles stand in faith, Romans 11:20). Why have I written all this? Only to show that the process of leading to salvation (which we're discussing now) is not revealed here, but of who are God's Elect - that the Gospel would now go to the Gentiles, the Jew having rejected it ( Acts 13:46-48).
Jeremiah 17:9. Fully agree as mentioned previously.
Joel 2:12-14. You might need to give your reason for mentioning this Scripture, as I'm unable to relate it to what we're discussing.
Ezekiel 36:24-28. I understand this passage is still in the future (probably during the Millennial rule of Christ), when Israel finally acknowledges their Messiah, receiving a new heart & new spirit. Btw, I do NOT subscribe to Replacement Theology, inasfar as Israel no longer being a part of prophetic fulfilment and the Church is now the new Israel.
To Page 2.
I'm sorry but I fail to see how your understanding fits with any of the verses I have quoted.
Universal Atonement and Freewill relative to salvation are not taught in the Bible despite verses that when isolated may appear to do so.
When coming to conclusions regarding the Bible, all of the verses that relate must harmonize.
Unfortunately, failure to follow the Biblical principles of interpretation in virtually every church and denomination have contributed to teachings on critical doctrines, like the Nature of Salvation that are all over the map and ultimately place man and not God in control.
HAPPY FATHER'S DAY
As I walk around this afternoon I hear bellicose voices likely imbibing alcohol where men are wishing themselves a happy Father's day. This follows a sermon on the subject by our Deacon (as our Pastor is out of town this week). The concept of that sermon was demographics; differences between thought processes of men vs women; the fact that one thing women can do men cannot (giving birth); and finally scriptures on how men ought to be; and the scriptural plan for manhood followed by marriage followed by becoming a Father with the emphasis on the covenant between one man and one woman for life.
As I explore the verse quoted above; it is hard not to see how (as part of the sermon also brought forth as a concept) that kids today have lost a work ethic and are basically unruly not hearing the word "NO" from youth. This; of course has to do with one or both parents but as we all know the emasculation of true manhood has left many children feeling insecure; never being able to settle down. That would naturally extend to an unhealthy desire to acquire material possessions; as well as setting a bad example for their own children. There also is the fallout from those who have relationships and lifestyles that are either deviant or not sanctioned by scripture as traditional marriage has been given a bum rap. Hence we also see a disrespect and lack of honor of elderly people who are often ignored and placed into a Nursing Home and not listened to for their wisdom and practical advice.
There are cases where single fathers clearly ARE the best choice as opposed to mothers who are beset with addiction or other issues. Clearly a two parent home is the best environment as studying data makes pretty self evident under MOST circumstances.
God didn't want to curse Adam and Eve so He cursed the ground/earth instead, Genesis 3:17 "And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;". He also cursed the serpent, verse 14.
That curse ended with Noah, Genesis 5:29, "And he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the LORD hath cursed."
The ground is only one part. Without considering both ground and the heavenly places carnal wisdom gives the ungodly a wrong prognosis. War on terror in Iraq led to something least expected. It has been thus from the beginning,
Whereas the Law of the Spirit lays down another rule. This has been declared before the foundation of the world. John hears the Word announce it. "And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them."(Re.14:13)
'Henceforth' is similar to the phrases the Spirit uses. It is enacted when the Lamb slain breaks open the first seal. The rider on the white horse goes forth conquering and to conquer. (Re.6:2). The martyrs are blessed because he shall slay the wicked one,"whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming"(2 The.2:8:-12). Re.19:15.
"Of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;"
Ground also implies human existence where disobedience sown by one man brings a bumper crop of misery. Labor is wasted and famine and pestilence are ever waiting to come in. Tree of life judged man who ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. What good is to use killer weeds and have the forever chemicals in the water you drink? What good is to save a burning brand out of fire only to have it set your own house in fire?
Only God is good and who is restoring the world ravaged by sin. "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil." ( 1 John 3:8). The West is as much compromised by the works of the devil. We often heard ad nauseam the six millions Jews perishing in the holocaust. Do we hear as much of lives lost by the West. In 1943 was the Bengal famine owing to the wrong policies of Great Britain. Three million lives perished by their policies. Have they even publicly acknowledged their guilt? It is thus nations have shown their hypocrisy.
The West has thus interfered in the 'Jewish question' of the last century to see another kind of ethnic cleansing and genocide now going on before them in the present times. Growing up complacent and being complicit in their crimes does not leave the future generation free from guilt. It is sin where faithless generation shall flounder in the moral morass of their fathers. It is what law of sin demands the devil's due since sinful man is a servant to the devil.
The ground is only one part. Without considering both ground and the heavenly places carnal wisdom gives the ungodly a wrong prognosis. War on terror in Iraq led to something least expected. It has been thus from the beginning.
Romans 9:13-16
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. 14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then it is NOT OF HIM THE WILLETH, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Jeremiah 17:9 The HEART is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Joel 2:12-14
12 Therefore also now, saith the LORD, turn ye even to me with ALL YOUR HEART, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning: 13 And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil. 14 WHO KNOWETH if he will return and repent, and leave a blessing behind him; even a meat offering and a drink offering unto the LORD your God?
Ezekiel 36:24-28
24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A NEW HEART also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. 28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
Eph 2:1,8-10
1 And you hath he quickened, who were DEAD in trespasses and sins;
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
In Genesis 2:8 the Masoritic text says, "And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed."
The Septuagint text says, "And God planted a paradise in Edem to the east, and put there the man whom he formed"
In Genesis 2:15 the M/c says, "And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it."
The S/t says, "And the Lord the God took the man whom he formed, and put him into the paradise of pleasure/delight to work and protect it."
"Unto Adam also and to his wife did theLordGod make coats of skins, and clothed them."(v.21)
God making coats of skins reiterates the idea 'without shedding of the blood there is no remission of sins.' Where law of sin existed God pointed what to look for. The Law of the Spirit was demonstrated in the mind of Christ which is to be understood spiritually. Example of Seth as an intercessor is a case in point." After our likeness" established the fulness of Jesus Christ so whosoever believed in him entered into the covenant, in his Man component. So Law of Moses was intended as a BandAid cure for one slain by law of sin. The brazen serpent on the pole explains it.
That is faith brethren while a rational man contradicts himself with his mouth. He is a fool, a know nothing. Before him casting pearls may not always end up happily. We may see it in our case. Does anyone think if the imposter church is shown to be wrong in showing they are following doctrine of men and not the gospel of God set forth in the covenant in the opening chapters. that they shall disband and revere God and His holiness?
The entire episode of Eden and the Fall of man takes place in the heavenly places. It is same as we are called to do. We are dead to the world and our lives are hid in Christ. Similarly his life 'hid in Christ meaning that he is created ;after our image and after our likeness'. We produce nevertheless fruits of the Spirit proving the seed in itself, so quality of it proves if we are good or bad tree. What God has not planted shall be cast forth for fire. God has not revised his blessings held out under the covenant.
The Spirit never mentioned the first martyr as dead, Instead he slept. God is the God of the living so their death merely follows God's warning, "And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit./And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.?(Ac.7:59-60) Spirit goes to its set place as what is formed of the ground to its place.
"In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return."
"Sweat of thy face"
St Paul makes a distinction between the face and heart. "For all thingsarefor your sakes, that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving of many redound to the glory of God./For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inwardmanis renewed day by day."(2 Co.4:15-16) Face refers to outward man while heart is a spiritual space about heart which is not any anatomical part. Like the throne is used with reference to the earth as a footstool. It is thus we set Law of the Spirit far above the ground to which the law of sin rules the roost.
So what is face? We have the face of heaven declaring the glory of God as face of Cain was noticeable. "And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell./And theLordsaid unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?"(Ge.4:5-6) Consider this verse,"For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, togivethe light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ."(2 Co.4:6). The Spirit sets face as the interface between God and man. This is a direct reference to this statement, "And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters./And God said, Let there be light: and there was light."(Ge.1:2-3)
"The light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ" working with our inner man does something to the heart which is knowledge leading to understanding. "The fear of theLordis the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding."(Pr.9:10). Thus no man may excuse that he was ignorant of the Law of the Spirit. When God commanded, 'Fiat Lux!' our inner man knows. That is faith brethren while a rational man contradicts himself with his mouth.
We can look at Sanctification in generally three aspects:
a. a true believer in God, having been saved & redeemed through Jesus' Sacrifice, is said to be 'Positionally Sanctified'. That is, by virtue of now being a child of God, through Jesus His Son, the Christian is Separated & made Holy unto God by this position in Christ ( 1 Corinthians 1:30; 1 Peter 1:2).
b. as the believer walks this new separated life, he is also 'Experientially Sanctified'. When we grow in knowledge & experience of our Lord & Savior, we grow to be more like Jesus, hating & avoiding sin and displaying more & more of the Fruit of the Holy Spirit ( Philippians 2:13, Galatians 5:22-25).
c. we can know that we are truly in Christ, separated from the world & its lusts; we can also desire to grow to be more Christ-like in all our ways; but since the pull of the flesh is always at war with our spirit, we long for the day for our 'Future Sanctification', when our earthly struggles will be over and we will be taken into Christ Jesus' Presence (whether in the Rapture or through the veil of death), and we will be entirely perfect (without any stain of sin) & become as He is Holy & Perfect ( 1 John 3:1-3, Ephesians 5:27, Jude 1:24,25).
So the problem is: if God saves BEFORE we can believe - and Belief/Faith can only happen at the moment of salvation, what then is the penitent sinner believing & calling out to God in faith, if it is not Believing & Faith itself. Rather, it may be better stated, 'that the Holy Spirit at the proper time gives the needed Grace & Faith to believe ( Ephesians 2:8), yet the sinner coming to the Lord still needs Faith to believe by the Grace of God - and I believe that this Faith in no way contributes to God's Work of Salvation. As well, if a sinner is born again, he already has expressed belief/faith, therefore it cannot happen at or after salvation is given.
Acts 16:30,31, describes this matter well. The Philippian jailer, after seeing what took place in his prison, cried out to Paul & Silas, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" The jailer was still unregenerate at this point, when Paul & Silas said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house". The jailer, as all sinners, have to believe on Jesus & His finished Work for them - and this belief is when they are still in sin & not at or after salvation.
If the sinner has been true about himself & his need before God, the assurance of that great Work of Salvation is now completed in him & he steps out in great joy & great desire to follow the path of holiness. This I understand is 'Born Again', its work in the sinner & the change of life that ensues.
To the other part of your comment. You stated, "I want to make it clear that there is no salvation without repentance from sin and a broken and contrite heart before God. But this again is the work of God within us as He is drawing and saving us. It is not due to any inherent character within us."
Given what you've stated here & what we've discussed earlier, you state that this (repentance & brokenness) is the Work of God within us as He is drawing and saving us. But back to our problem: if this is the Work of God (to bring about repentance & brokenness), surely this is the unsaved sinner's response before God - that which you have written can never happen, since such a response would be adding to God's Work. As I remember, you've stated previously that it is only God Who saves: "We must be Born Again as God applies His Salvation to those whom He saves BEFORE we can believe with our whole heart. That is Salvation. And our Belief, our Faith is the RESULT of God applying salvation to one of His elect. And is not because we have "accepted" an offer of salvation". (continued on Page 3).
Thank you David0921 for your response. I would align myself with most of what you've written concerning biblical inspiration, that the Word of God is indeed wholly authored by God. Yet, when I read 2 Timothy 3:16, that "ALL scripture is given by the inspiration of God", I would be in conflict with some who hold fervently that what we read now (from the ancient recordings, also the KJB) are the actual Words that God (by His Spirit) spoke to godly men to write. "Inspiration" to me, doesn't mean that God dictated the Words to record, nor does it mean that the fingers of the writers were gripped by Him to pen those holy Words. Rather, as men recorded down what they saw or learned, God's Spirit was present to help them record accurately and remember correctly. That said, since you brought it up, I'll move on.
"What do I believe the Bible says about the term BORN AGAIN?" When we have Scriptures such as John 3:3-8, 1 Peter 1:22-23, 1 John 2:29, 1 John 5:1, & others in John's epistle, we can believe that this re-birth is wholly of God & not of man's doing or involvement; that re-birth is a spiritual birth, whereby God gives us a new spirit (His Spirit) Who always inclines us towards God & His Son; that God's Ministry to us can only be to our revived spirit in us and not to the flesh that has no desire after godly things. Therefore, we are to continue to crucify our flesh which lusts against the Holy Spirit ( Galatians 5:17) in us & distracts us from serving God acceptably & in fear. Therefore, by the Holy Spirit in us, we have become new creatures in Christ Jesus, reckoning ourselves to be dead unto sin but alive unto God through Jesus Christ. This re-birth must be the final Work of God in the sometimes lengthy course in a person's struggle dealing with conviction of sin, brokenness, humility, & cry for a Savior to save & redeem him. (continued on Page 2).