Was David doing all those things you have eluded to? was Solomon or Saul or any other doing those works, or was it God doing it through them?
Daniel 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and God doth according to HIS WILL in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
Jeremiah 51:20-24 .... thou art my battle axe and weapons of war ......
Isaiah 10:15 .... Shall the axe boost himself against him that heweth therewith?.....
Firstly, heaven ( Ephesians 1:3-8 combined with Philippians 3:20-21) is not the physical space of Universe called materially in human language as sky.
With the establishment of the 3rd heaven- Isaiah 51:16, Luke 20:35-36, 2Corinthians 12:2 combined with Revelation 4:1, the 1st and the 2nd heavens THAT WERE ESTABLISHED until this current time( Ephesians 1:3-8 combined with Philippians 3:20-21) being on FIRE (GOD is a consuming FIRE- Isaiah 33:10-14) shall be DISSOLVED (something similar to an implosion) as was prophesied. Seeing then that all these things shall be DISSOLVED, what manner of person ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness? 2Peter 3:10.
Actually until this current time were established two DISTINCTS heavens, and from now on will be established or planted ( Isaiah 51:16) the DISTINCT 3rd heaven for 1000 years, no more than 1000 years, that is the Kingdom of GOD- Revelation 11:15-18, incidentally Satan also ascended to the 1st and 2nd heavens- Revelation 12:3-and still is in heaven for now, but he will not ascend to the 3rd heaven, never will, on the contrary, he will be cast into the bottomless pit, and WHEN the thousand years(of the existence of the 3rd heaven) are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison and there will be another battle against him and his hosts, and fire will come down from GOD out of heaven, and will devoure them. After that, GOD will establish the environment of heaven of the heavens (an heaven above of the first three distincts heavens that were before).
That's what we interpret about heavens within the Scriptures. There are three that bear record (testify) in heaven, the Father (GOD the Father), the Word(the Word made flesh-JESUS), and the Holy Spirit (who is not a ghost as is written in English language, but a person): and these three are One. 1John 5:7
(Part 4, and final part): I'm not going to promise this time as I've learned my lesson!
Q. If you believe that God wrote the KJB, who wrote the bible/s that was/were already in existence before 1611?
Q. Also, if God did write the KJB, which version of the KJB did He write? Was it the original 1611 because there have been several revisions to the 1611. What the revisions? Some say that the revisions and changes are just grammatical errors and such. But with God being perfect, would there be grammatical errors at all if He wrote it?
Momsage, I do appreciate your questions. I also appreciate and respect your zeal for the King James Bible, even though we don't agree on who wrote it and its complete accuracy. It is still the bible I choose to study. I also read the Greek text (Textus Receptus) and there are differences that I have found from the Greek text in comparison to the KJB. Would it be wrong of me to mark through a word in the KJB and replace it with the word the Greek text uses if the original text uses a different word?
Hopefully, I have answered all your questions. Before I ask my questions, I just want to commend you on the 56 years of studying God's word. I also have spent many years in His word. I have never shared how many years on this forum because that is something I just don't feel the need to share. I have my reasons or not sharing that. However, I do agree with you fully that it is through God's word that spiritual growth comes from. In fact, I believe the next step after salvation is growth. Peter tells us in 2 Peter 3:18 "But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ."
If I were to pick one verse in the bible, this is the verse I would pick as to what would be the message for believers today. Though we have a multitude of things that we like to do in reference to the Lord, the things that we know are important (at least to us), grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. That's a command! It is written in command form in the Greek text.
And no, I don't think you were being sarcastic at all. Your questions were fair to ask.
Now, for my questions:
Q. What version did God write?
Q. Is it the bible that teaches us right from wrong, or is it God's Spirit that convicts a person (both believer and non-believer) of what's right and what's wrong?
Q. If the KJB is used as the source to compare all other bibles for truth, what do you use to check the KJB for accuracy?
Q. Since you asked, "why didn't they use the manuscripts God used," I must ask you what manuscripts did God use?
Q. You speak of "those of you who don't even believe God wrote a word of truth for us?" My question to you is who are you speaking of me? This sure doesn't sound like me or anyone else on this forum. I think everyone here believes that God has given us the word of truth!
I know I promised this to be the last part, but I have just a wee bit more. Please forgive me!
Q. If they believed the bible was the written word of God, why didn't they use the manuscripts God used and just make simple changes to the language?
A. Again, not knowing their motive, I cannot answer this one. But if these men truly believed the bible was the written word of God, I would have to believe that there would be no need to for them to even "make simple changes to the language."
Q. Why if they loved God and respected His word would they do what they did and now there are those of you who don't even believe God wrote a word of truth for us?
A. Once again, I have no way of knowing what their motives were.
Q. What joy is there in reading man's interpretation of what God may have said, or maybe not?
A. I'm sure no one would find any joy in that! If I were to read the preface of any bible and it said that the word written herein may be what God has said, or may not be what He said, the preface would be as far as I would read.
Q. How do we know that they (JW's, Mormons, Buddhists) don't have the truth?
A. If what they teach goes against what Paul preached and taught, their "truth" is to be rejected. ( Galatians 1:8-9)
Q. Why don't we just all make up our own religion and do what we want from whatever versions we choose to believe or maybe bits here and bits there from every version. Whatever suits us.
A. With all the various religions out there (too many to count), it's already been done! The reason why we have so many religions and denominations are because man cannot agree on what God's word says. Many of us here (including you and I) read the KJB but we disagree on what it says in certain places. Why is that? It's because English is such a general language. Hebrew also is a general language. But not so with Greek. Greek is such an exact language to where it makes it almost impossible to come up with different conclusions as to what the text is saying.
Well, I think you have somewhat misunderstood me about what I believe. Your comment that I "don't seem to believe the ancient writings have been handed down without errors" is simply an assumption on your part. I am not sure how you come to that conclusion from my comments, but I can tell you that I do believe the ancient writings (Hebrew/Greek/Aramaic) have been handed down without error.
I believe the ancient writings of scripture are completely free from error. However, the KJB or any other English translation or version are not the ancient writings, and there is no perfect English translation/version. I will attempt to answer your questions, but I also have a few of my own.
First, to answer your questions:
Q. If God didn't write one true version of His word for us to have then who did?
A. According to the definition of the word version, I don't believe God wrote any version at all. However, we do have God's perfect word in the original languages. It's through various English translations (including the KJB) where we run into problems.
Q. How do we know right from wrong if we can't trust what is written?
A. Human beings know right from wrong before they learn to read. As for us believers, it is God's Spirit that puts it on our hearts to know right from wrong. We don't need a bible to know right from wrong. Those in OT times didn't have a bible to read. They knew right from wrong.
Q. Since the authors of these versions have said they were only attempting to modernize the language of the KJB, which is why the comparison is made to the KJB, why did they almost exclusively use different ancient writings then weren't used for the KJB?
A. Unless you can tell me which authors you are speaking of and share with me their exact words and motives, I am not sure how to answer this question.
Universalism does not teach that every human will be saved because the sacrifice of Jesus was for the sins of the whole world.
Universalism teaches that every human will be saved whether they believe or accept Christ or not.
Everyone gets saved no matter what.
The bible is what teaches that Jesus sacrifice was for the whole world.
John 3:14-16
"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Just as anyone in the camp beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.in Numbers 21:9, Anyone who trust in the Lamb of God shall also live.
Here's more connecting verses.
John 1:29 "The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the "SIN" of the world.
You noticed I put emphasis on the word SIN here in this verse. It's singular!
It is the penalty of sin that is being spoken of here that was brought in the world by Adam's transgression mentioned in Romans. Romans 5:12-15.
If the penalty of sin was imputed to All men then the Love offering and sacrifice was for all men.
Drop down to Romans 5:18 "Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon ALL MEN unto justification of life.
John again.
1 John 2:2 states "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
More about David's cunning at getting what he wants by manipulation , in 2nd Samuel ch 17 v 25 , Absalom makes his own biological cousin , Amasa ,captain of the host , once Absalom's rebellion is quashed and David is back as the King , he demotes Joab and makes Amasa his nephew captain of his host . Again I'm guessing that David would have known how Joab would react to this and do his dirty work for him . It wouldn't look good for David to kill his own nephew so he enrages Joab , in the best way he knows how and sits back knowing what Joab will do about that . In 1st Kings Ch 2 v 1-9 , David instructs Solomon to kill all those people who he himself would have liked to have killed but it wasn't expedient for him to have done so . Joab is David's puppet , it started with Uriah and David believes he can manipulate Joab any way he wants to and for a very long time Joab is faithful .
David was a man , a man of war and passion . Clever , cunning and manipulative . A true servant of God , full of love and zeal for God and a determination to serve God to the best of his faith and privilege and responsibilities . For me , he had the edge over Solomon because he only married one strange wife , an Egyptian lady and I'm guessing this was a political marriage and although he had many wives he didn't allow them to turn his heart away from God . The Kingdom of Israel under Solomon may be a foreshadow of the Kingdom to come but it is marred by Solomon allowing himself to be led astray . In his writings he often blames women for the downfall of men but his own lust and weakness is to blame and I'm sure he eventually recognised this , judging by his heartfelt repentance in Ecclesiastes .
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter : Fear God and keep His commandments : for this is the whole duty of man . I find David's life fascinating , he's so very human and he loves God so very much .
Yes ! That a great verse . I'm assuming that 3 different scribes penned the books of Samuel , the books of Kings and the books of Chronicles . Each of them may have brought their own political and social biases with them , which is only human .
Whoever penned that verse was ignoring David's failure to punish his own son , who raped David's own daughter , according to God's laws .
One glaring inconsistency concerns what happened to Saul's body and how David reacted to what happened , depending on which book you are reading . In 1st Samuel chapter 31 verses 11-13 we read what the valiant men of Jabesh-Gilead did . In 2nd Samuel chapter 2 verses 5-7 we get David's favourable response to their actions .
Let's jump on to 2nd Samuel chapter 21 , a very interesting chapter all round but let's go straight to verse 12 , where it seems a different attitude prevails .
About chapter 21. It is another example of how David manipulates the situation in order to circumvent the promise that he made to Saul in 1st Samuel chapter 24 verses 21+22 . In 2nd Samuel ch 2 v 8 we discover that Abner is Saul's biological cousin and Ch 2 and 3 give us an account of what went on between Joab and Abner (Saul's cousin ) . It seems to me that Joab is right in his estimation of Abner's character and motives but David will have none of it , he treats Abner as a friend , in my opinion he knows full well how Joab will react and behave in this situation , in fact he's counting on Joab to do what he knows he can't do because of his promise to Saul . My theory can be backed up by David's behaviour in 2nd Samuel ch 21 v 1-11. He appears to condone human sacrifice as he arranges the murders of Saul's two sons and five grandsons on the pretext of appeasing the Gibeonites , who aren't even of Israel . Just what David wanted to do but could not because of his oath . Mephibosheth is the last son of Saul and he's a cripple , David keeps a close eye on him and his only son Micha who is mentioned only once .
Hi David0921: This is what I understand you to believe: that if God didn't choose me as one of the elect before I was born that when I die I will go to hell. God Bless :)
I am praying for you and your family along with the MacAllisters. I hope Jessica's life is getting sorted out and that she continues to be safe from the person who was harmful to her and her daughter.
"And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know."
These know nothings come of two stripes. One who knows nothing wants to know wisdom that Jesus signifies. I belong to it so I follow the signposts Jesus Christ has set up. I don't therefore remove ancient landmarks the words have set up. My faith with works therefore as I have every day tried to live by. For eighty one years of physical life what life promised is everlasting to everlasting. That ought to make me minister here and now as being called by God in his Son.
Second sort of know nothings call their ignorance and call it hermeneutics and explain it according to reason of men and their doctrine. "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth,"(2 Ti.3:7-10) St Paul then goes on to speak of his doctrine which is of Paul but abiding in Christ he spoke as oracle of God. "But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their's also was./But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, long suffering, charity, patience."
Finally, "If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen."(1 Pe.4:11)
God through the pens of his prophets declared that he would make the whole earth desolate, left as a cottage in the wilderness.
He would destroy sinful man from the face of the earth, he would CUT OFF their name forever, and renew the face of the earth with a NEW CREATION, a kingdom of Priest, after the image of their creator and high priest JESUS CHRIST, and give them a NEW NAME, his name.
Mark 10:8 And they twain shall be ONE FLESH: so they are NO MORE twain, but ONE FLESH.
Christ came ONCE to fulfill the WORDS of his Father.
ALL was fulfill at the cross of Christ and HIS RESURRECTION.
He has declared all this in his word.
The question is:
Do you AGREE with his WORD, or REBEL against his WORD?
I am unable to discuss faith and salvation in depth as you in this group so fluently express yourselves.
When I find myself unsure about a subject or a religious issue, like the one on salvation for infants and children now being discussed,there are two scriptures I rely on to help me
move pass this obstacle.
The first one is Isaiah 55:8__
The second one is
Proverbs 3:4,5,6___
Lord thank you for Grace, for your loving kindness and Mercy for forgiveness when I error. Amen.
King David was a Interesting Character with a Interesting relationship with God.
1 Kings 15"5 us an example. "Because David did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, and turned not aside from any thing that he commanded him all the days of his life, save only in the matter of Uriah the Hittite.
Paul makes it clear in Romans 10:8-10. "But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
There mustbe a response! You must receive and receiving a gift is not a act of works!
This doesn't add anything to the foundation already laid!
Once we recieve that precious gift then we are able to build on that foundation.
The Holyspirit takes action! Our actions exhibits our faith. It confirms a connection with our Lord.
It's amazing we're called God's elect by most, and they agree that is a work of God that can't be reversed. ( Well some of us agree to that)
But yet Israel is called God's elect but they would say Israel blew it.
While I'm on the subject of Israel look at Matt. 23:37
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, AND YE WOULD NOT!
(And they would not!)
There was a response needed to be made after the fulfillment of all those prophecies concerning their Messiah.
However, Thank God Paul lays their future out for us in Romans along with many references of their future restoration.
Do not worry, universalism is not bad as it sounds. 'Our Father which art in heaven' is still the same whether you are calling on God from Abilene or from Zanzibar. Christ is still the same, the Way. His blood cleanseth us from all sins if you have just heard the word of God for the first time. A day is appointed for Christ to gather His saints, and He has promised His disciples a kingdom. ( Luke 22:29) His kingdom is everlasting to everlasting.
So let not the know-nothings distract you, from whichever corner they may throw, from the race that you run today. Quit ye like men, as the word of God tells us. Amen
Here's the message for today, and for days ahead, day by day, and henceforward, until the END of all things, and END this world as a whole.
Genesis 19:13 reveals the voice sounded in Sodom: We will destroy this place,... but now, even now, from now on, the same voice will destroy the current world of Devil as a whole, as was prophesied, since ancient time. The same Word, the Word of GOD, GOD Himself, must sound, self-executing it. Heavens and earth shall PASS AWAY, but my Words shall not pass away, says my Lord, so
Get ready
There shall be wrath against the wicked- Revelation 11:18, only Judgment and Justice will support you. Righteousness and Judgment are the foundation of GOD's Throne.
Dear Brother , nothing quite so controversial , I keep away from those subjects if I can .
Just minor inconsistencies in the narrative of the life of David . Sometimes we can forget just what a man of war he was , and therefore a cunning and manipulative man as all good warriors are .
Examples coming soon , have to go to work today so bare with me please .
"And, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me." (v.9)
The Spirit uses 'behold' in order to connect the passage either to the Word or to the word made flesh. A classic example is that of Prophet Isaiah announcing the virgin birth of Jesus. "Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel."(Is.7:14). Jesus Christ is set down indeed as a sign and in the everlasting covenant we read the signs inserted before introducing two great lights. " And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs," (1:14). Joseph's dream is very much built out of symbols supplied by God. . Concerning Moses we have the words of God, " And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the Lord will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream."(Nu.11:8).
God sets Joseph after the likeness of his Son. From his life we shall accordingly see many parallels with that of Jesus Christ.
His brethren had no clue as to the role his least favoured sibling would play in their later lives. They were know nothings because their envy blinded them.
"And, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me." (v.9)
The Spirit uses 'behold' in order to connect the passage either to the Word or to the word made flesh. A classic example is that of Prophet Isaiah announcing the virgin birth of Jesus. "Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel."(Is.7:14). Jesus Christ is set down indeed as a sign and in the everlasting covenant we read the signs inserted before introducing two great lights. " And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs," (1:14). Joseph's dream is very much built out of symbols supplied by God. . Concerning Moses we have the words of God, " And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the Lord will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream."(Nu.11:8).
God sets Joseph after the likeness of his Son. From his life we shall accordingly see many parallels with that of Jesus Christ.
His brethren had no clue as to the role his least favoured sibling would play in their later lives. They were know nothings because their envy blinded them. When we read the kind of debate goes on it is sure the Bible is a closed book to them. Instead of opening their ear of faith they let them taught by false shepherds and they mouth the same. God has given the indwelling Spirit to follow his Will and his Son so they may understand the spiritual instruction. Faith with works does apply where fools are trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.
10 And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?
11 And his brethren envied him; but his father observed the saying.
1John 2:2 reads, And he is the propitiation for our sins:
The Greek word just means satisfaction. Jesus meets all the requirements for our sins. But also, HELASMON is the Greek word, and it is the word for mercy seat in the Old Testament in the tabernacle area.
Once a year at the Day of Atonement, the priest would go in the holy of holies and sprinkle the mercy seat with the sacrifice that has been made for the sins of the people.
So Jesus presents Himself before the Father, not only His righteousness, but His sacrifice for our sins. And not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
And so the argument and debate goes on about "Did Jesus die for the sins of the whole world, or just for a few, that is, the ones that He has chosen?"
Well, the bible tells us that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, everybody's sins. But its application and its effectiveness is only for those who receive Him.
When the whole world stands before Christ, the only thing they will answer for is how they responded to Christ. That's it! And people will die in their sins because they have rejected Christ.
With that as the base and foundation of moving on, showing God's provision if we confess our sins, it's almost as if John was saying "Now as we go through this list, and you realize that you're not saved, just remember we've got a provision for your sins, so take advantage of it."
I understand Limited Atonement as the view that the death and sacrifice of Jesus was done only for those elected to salvation, and so, Jesus did not take on the sins of the whole of humanity. This may not be exactly what calvinists such as David view it.
I have a question?
Was David doing all those things you have eluded to? was Solomon or Saul or any other doing those works, or was it God doing it through them?
Daniel 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and God doth according to HIS WILL in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
Jeremiah 51:20-24 .... thou art my battle axe and weapons of war ......
Isaiah 10:15 .... Shall the axe boost himself against him that heweth therewith?.....
Are we not the POT and God the POTTER?
God Bless YOU
With the establishment of the 3rd heaven- Isaiah 51:16, Luke 20:35-36, 2Corinthians 12:2 combined with Revelation 4:1, the 1st and the 2nd heavens THAT WERE ESTABLISHED until this current time( Ephesians 1:3-8 combined with Philippians 3:20-21) being on FIRE (GOD is a consuming FIRE- Isaiah 33:10-14) shall be DISSOLVED (something similar to an implosion) as was prophesied. Seeing then that all these things shall be DISSOLVED, what manner of person ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness? 2Peter 3:10.
Actually until this current time were established two DISTINCTS heavens, and from now on will be established or planted ( Isaiah 51:16) the DISTINCT 3rd heaven for 1000 years, no more than 1000 years, that is the Kingdom of GOD- Revelation 11:15-18, incidentally Satan also ascended to the 1st and 2nd heavens- Revelation 12:3-and still is in heaven for now, but he will not ascend to the 3rd heaven, never will, on the contrary, he will be cast into the bottomless pit, and WHEN the thousand years(of the existence of the 3rd heaven) are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison and there will be another battle against him and his hosts, and fire will come down from GOD out of heaven, and will devoure them. After that, GOD will establish the environment of heaven of the heavens (an heaven above of the first three distincts heavens that were before).
That's what we interpret about heavens within the Scriptures. There are three that bear record (testify) in heaven, the Father (GOD the Father), the Word(the Word made flesh-JESUS), and the Holy Spirit (who is not a ghost as is written in English language, but a person): and these three are One. 1John 5:7
Get ready
(Part 4, and final part): I'm not going to promise this time as I've learned my lesson!
Q. If you believe that God wrote the KJB, who wrote the bible/s that was/were already in existence before 1611?
Q. Also, if God did write the KJB, which version of the KJB did He write? Was it the original 1611 because there have been several revisions to the 1611. What the revisions? Some say that the revisions and changes are just grammatical errors and such. But with God being perfect, would there be grammatical errors at all if He wrote it?
Momsage, I do appreciate your questions. I also appreciate and respect your zeal for the King James Bible, even though we don't agree on who wrote it and its complete accuracy. It is still the bible I choose to study. I also read the Greek text (Textus Receptus) and there are differences that I have found from the Greek text in comparison to the KJB. Would it be wrong of me to mark through a word in the KJB and replace it with the word the Greek text uses if the original text uses a different word?
Blessings to you in Christ Jesus!
(Part 3):
Hopefully, I have answered all your questions. Before I ask my questions, I just want to commend you on the 56 years of studying God's word. I also have spent many years in His word. I have never shared how many years on this forum because that is something I just don't feel the need to share. I have my reasons or not sharing that. However, I do agree with you fully that it is through God's word that spiritual growth comes from. In fact, I believe the next step after salvation is growth. Peter tells us in 2 Peter 3:18 "But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ."
If I were to pick one verse in the bible, this is the verse I would pick as to what would be the message for believers today. Though we have a multitude of things that we like to do in reference to the Lord, the things that we know are important (at least to us), grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. That's a command! It is written in command form in the Greek text.
And no, I don't think you were being sarcastic at all. Your questions were fair to ask.
Now, for my questions:
Q. What version did God write?
Q. Is it the bible that teaches us right from wrong, or is it God's Spirit that convicts a person (both believer and non-believer) of what's right and what's wrong?
Q. If the KJB is used as the source to compare all other bibles for truth, what do you use to check the KJB for accuracy?
Q. Since you asked, "why didn't they use the manuscripts God used," I must ask you what manuscripts did God use?
Q. You speak of "those of you who don't even believe God wrote a word of truth for us?" My question to you is who are you speaking of me? This sure doesn't sound like me or anyone else on this forum. I think everyone here believes that God has given us the word of truth!
I know I promised this to be the last part, but I have just a wee bit more. Please forgive me!
(Part 2):
Continuation of your questions:
Q. If they believed the bible was the written word of God, why didn't they use the manuscripts God used and just make simple changes to the language?
A. Again, not knowing their motive, I cannot answer this one. But if these men truly believed the bible was the written word of God, I would have to believe that there would be no need to for them to even "make simple changes to the language."
Q. Why if they loved God and respected His word would they do what they did and now there are those of you who don't even believe God wrote a word of truth for us?
A. Once again, I have no way of knowing what their motives were.
Q. What joy is there in reading man's interpretation of what God may have said, or maybe not?
A. I'm sure no one would find any joy in that! If I were to read the preface of any bible and it said that the word written herein may be what God has said, or may not be what He said, the preface would be as far as I would read.
Q. How do we know that they (JW's, Mormons, Buddhists) don't have the truth?
A. If what they teach goes against what Paul preached and taught, their "truth" is to be rejected. ( Galatians 1:8-9)
Q. Why don't we just all make up our own religion and do what we want from whatever versions we choose to believe or maybe bits here and bits there from every version. Whatever suits us.
A. With all the various religions out there (too many to count), it's already been done! The reason why we have so many religions and denominations are because man cannot agree on what God's word says. Many of us here (including you and I) read the KJB but we disagree on what it says in certain places. Why is that? It's because English is such a general language. Hebrew also is a general language. But not so with Greek. Greek is such an exact language to where it makes it almost impossible to come up with different conclusions as to what the text is saying.
One more short post, I promise!
(Part 1):
Well, I think you have somewhat misunderstood me about what I believe. Your comment that I "don't seem to believe the ancient writings have been handed down without errors" is simply an assumption on your part. I am not sure how you come to that conclusion from my comments, but I can tell you that I do believe the ancient writings (Hebrew/Greek/Aramaic) have been handed down without error.
I believe the ancient writings of scripture are completely free from error. However, the KJB or any other English translation or version are not the ancient writings, and there is no perfect English translation/version. I will attempt to answer your questions, but I also have a few of my own.
First, to answer your questions:
Q. If God didn't write one true version of His word for us to have then who did?
A. According to the definition of the word version, I don't believe God wrote any version at all. However, we do have God's perfect word in the original languages. It's through various English translations (including the KJB) where we run into problems.
Q. How do we know right from wrong if we can't trust what is written?
A. Human beings know right from wrong before they learn to read. As for us believers, it is God's Spirit that puts it on our hearts to know right from wrong. We don't need a bible to know right from wrong. Those in OT times didn't have a bible to read. They knew right from wrong.
Q. Since the authors of these versions have said they were only attempting to modernize the language of the KJB, which is why the comparison is made to the KJB, why did they almost exclusively use different ancient writings then weren't used for the KJB?
A. Unless you can tell me which authors you are speaking of and share with me their exact words and motives, I am not sure how to answer this question.
Very interesting,
I'm familiar with some of what you mentioned but
I wouldn't be able to comment on any of this, being that I haven't gave much study on it in a while!
And never dug in that deep
but I will definitely do so!
Thanks and God bless.
Universalism does not teach that every human will be saved because the sacrifice of Jesus was for the sins of the whole world.
Universalism teaches that every human will be saved whether they believe or accept Christ or not.
Everyone gets saved no matter what.
The bible is what teaches that Jesus sacrifice was for the whole world.
John 3:14-16
"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Just as anyone in the camp beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.in Numbers 21:9, Anyone who trust in the Lamb of God shall also live.
Here's more connecting verses.
John 1:29 "The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the "SIN" of the world.
You noticed I put emphasis on the word SIN here in this verse. It's singular!
It is the penalty of sin that is being spoken of here that was brought in the world by Adam's transgression mentioned in Romans. Romans 5:12-15.
If the penalty of sin was imputed to All men then the Love offering and sacrifice was for all men.
Drop down to Romans 5:18 "Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon ALL MEN unto justification of life.
John again.
1 John 2:2 states "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
There will be more on this later, God bless.
Galatians 4:9 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again, till Christ be formed IN YOU.
Philippians 3:18 For many walk, of whom I have told you often and now tell you weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ.
God Bless YOU
David was a man , a man of war and passion . Clever , cunning and manipulative . A true servant of God , full of love and zeal for God and a determination to serve God to the best of his faith and privilege and responsibilities . For me , he had the edge over Solomon because he only married one strange wife , an Egyptian lady and I'm guessing this was a political marriage and although he had many wives he didn't allow them to turn his heart away from God . The Kingdom of Israel under Solomon may be a foreshadow of the Kingdom to come but it is marred by Solomon allowing himself to be led astray . In his writings he often blames women for the downfall of men but his own lust and weakness is to blame and I'm sure he eventually recognised this , judging by his heartfelt repentance in Ecclesiastes .
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter : Fear God and keep His commandments : for this is the whole duty of man . I find David's life fascinating , he's so very human and he loves God so very much .
Whoever penned that verse was ignoring David's failure to punish his own son , who raped David's own daughter , according to God's laws .
One glaring inconsistency concerns what happened to Saul's body and how David reacted to what happened , depending on which book you are reading . In 1st Samuel chapter 31 verses 11-13 we read what the valiant men of Jabesh-Gilead did . In 2nd Samuel chapter 2 verses 5-7 we get David's favourable response to their actions .
Let's jump on to 2nd Samuel chapter 21 , a very interesting chapter all round but let's go straight to verse 12 , where it seems a different attitude prevails .
About chapter 21. It is another example of how David manipulates the situation in order to circumvent the promise that he made to Saul in 1st Samuel chapter 24 verses 21+22 . In 2nd Samuel ch 2 v 8 we discover that Abner is Saul's biological cousin and Ch 2 and 3 give us an account of what went on between Joab and Abner (Saul's cousin ) . It seems to me that Joab is right in his estimation of Abner's character and motives but David will have none of it , he treats Abner as a friend , in my opinion he knows full well how Joab will react and behave in this situation , in fact he's counting on Joab to do what he knows he can't do because of his promise to Saul . My theory can be backed up by David's behaviour in 2nd Samuel ch 21 v 1-11. He appears to condone human sacrifice as he arranges the murders of Saul's two sons and five grandsons on the pretext of appeasing the Gibeonites , who aren't even of Israel . Just what David wanted to do but could not because of his oath . Mephibosheth is the last son of Saul and he's a cripple , David keeps a close eye on him and his only son Micha who is mentioned only once .
I am praying for you and your family along with the MacAllisters. I hope Jessica's life is getting sorted out and that she continues to be safe from the person who was harmful to her and her daughter.
Universalism teaches that every human will be saved because the sacrifice of Jesus was for the sins of the whole world.
Thanks for adding these Scriptures to our conversation. May you be very blessed today in your walk with our Lord and Savior.
"And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know."
These know nothings come of two stripes. One who knows nothing wants to know wisdom that Jesus signifies. I belong to it so I follow the signposts Jesus Christ has set up. I don't therefore remove ancient landmarks the words have set up. My faith with works therefore as I have every day tried to live by. For eighty one years of physical life what life promised is everlasting to everlasting. That ought to make me minister here and now as being called by God in his Son.
Second sort of know nothings call their ignorance and call it hermeneutics and explain it according to reason of men and their doctrine. "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth,"(2 Ti.3:7-10) St Paul then goes on to speak of his doctrine which is of Paul but abiding in Christ he spoke as oracle of God. "But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their's also was./But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, long suffering, charity, patience."
Finally, "If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen."(1 Pe.4:11)
"Seek to know as you ought to know."
He would destroy sinful man from the face of the earth, he would CUT OFF their name forever, and renew the face of the earth with a NEW CREATION, a kingdom of Priest, after the image of their creator and high priest JESUS CHRIST, and give them a NEW NAME, his name.
Mark 10:8 And they twain shall be ONE FLESH: so they are NO MORE twain, but ONE FLESH.
Christ came ONCE to fulfill the WORDS of his Father.
ALL was fulfill at the cross of Christ and HIS RESURRECTION.
He has declared all this in his word.
The question is:
Do you AGREE with his WORD, or REBEL against his WORD?
God Bless YOU
on infants and children
MotherMac
To All:
I am unable to discuss faith and salvation in depth as you in this group so fluently express yourselves.
When I find myself unsure about a subject or a religious issue, like the one on salvation for infants and children now being discussed,there are two scriptures I rely on to help me
move pass this obstacle.
The first one is Isaiah 55:8__
The second one is
Proverbs 3:4,5,6___
Lord thank you for Grace, for your loving kindness and Mercy for forgiveness when I error. Amen.
King David was a Interesting Character with a Interesting relationship with God.
1 Kings 15"5 us an example. "Because David did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, and turned not aside from any thing that he commanded him all the days of his life, save only in the matter of Uriah the Hittite.
He cried out to the Lord as we see in his Psalms.
God bless you.
Paul makes it clear in Romans 10:8-10. "But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
There mustbe a response! You must receive and receiving a gift is not a act of works!
This doesn't add anything to the foundation already laid!
Once we recieve that precious gift then we are able to build on that foundation.
The Holyspirit takes action! Our actions exhibits our faith. It confirms a connection with our Lord.
It's amazing we're called God's elect by most, and they agree that is a work of God that can't be reversed. ( Well some of us agree to that)
But yet Israel is called God's elect but they would say Israel blew it.
While I'm on the subject of Israel look at Matt. 23:37
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, AND YE WOULD NOT!
(And they would not!)
There was a response needed to be made after the fulfillment of all those prophecies concerning their Messiah.
However, Thank God Paul lays their future out for us in Romans along with many references of their future restoration.
God bless.
Do not worry, universalism is not bad as it sounds. 'Our Father which art in heaven' is still the same whether you are calling on God from Abilene or from Zanzibar. Christ is still the same, the Way. His blood cleanseth us from all sins if you have just heard the word of God for the first time. A day is appointed for Christ to gather His saints, and He has promised His disciples a kingdom. ( Luke 22:29) His kingdom is everlasting to everlasting.
So let not the know-nothings distract you, from whichever corner they may throw, from the race that you run today. Quit ye like men, as the word of God tells us. Amen
Genesis 19:13 reveals the voice sounded in Sodom: We will destroy this place,... but now, even now, from now on, the same voice will destroy the current world of Devil as a whole, as was prophesied, since ancient time. The same Word, the Word of GOD, GOD Himself, must sound, self-executing it. Heavens and earth shall PASS AWAY, but my Words shall not pass away, says my Lord, so
Get ready
There shall be wrath against the wicked- Revelation 11:18, only Judgment and Justice will support you. Righteousness and Judgment are the foundation of GOD's Throne.
Get ready
Best to keep my mouth shut about things that I know nothing about . At least I try to do that , most of the time , wink .
Just minor inconsistencies in the narrative of the life of David . Sometimes we can forget just what a man of war he was , and therefore a cunning and manipulative man as all good warriors are .
Examples coming soon , have to go to work today so bare with me please .
The entirepost is edited for clarity as follows:
"And, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me." (v.9)
The Spirit uses 'behold' in order to connect the passage either to the Word or to the word made flesh. A classic example is that of Prophet Isaiah announcing the virgin birth of Jesus. "Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel."(Is.7:14). Jesus Christ is set down indeed as a sign and in the everlasting covenant we read the signs inserted before introducing two great lights. " And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs," (1:14). Joseph's dream is very much built out of symbols supplied by God. . Concerning Moses we have the words of God, " And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the Lord will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream."(Nu.11:8).
God sets Joseph after the likeness of his Son. From his life we shall accordingly see many parallels with that of Jesus Christ.
His brethren had no clue as to the role his least favoured sibling would play in their later lives. They were know nothings because their envy blinded them.
"And, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me." (v.9)
The Spirit uses 'behold' in order to connect the passage either to the Word or to the word made flesh. A classic example is that of Prophet Isaiah announcing the virgin birth of Jesus. "Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel."(Is.7:14). Jesus Christ is set down indeed as a sign and in the everlasting covenant we read the signs inserted before introducing two great lights. " And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs," (1:14). Joseph's dream is very much built out of symbols supplied by God. . Concerning Moses we have the words of God, " And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the Lord will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream."(Nu.11:8).
God sets Joseph after the likeness of his Son. From his life we shall accordingly see many parallels with that of Jesus Christ.
His brethren had no clue as to the role his least favoured sibling would play in their later lives. They were know nothings because their envy blinded them. When we read the kind of debate goes on it is sure the Bible is a closed book to them. Instead of opening their ear of faith they let them taught by false shepherds and they mouth the same. God has given the indwelling Spirit to follow his Will and his Son so they may understand the spiritual instruction. Faith with works does apply where fools are trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.
10 And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?
11 And his brethren envied him; but his father observed the saying.
The Greek word just means satisfaction. Jesus meets all the requirements for our sins. But also, HELASMON is the Greek word, and it is the word for mercy seat in the Old Testament in the tabernacle area.
Once a year at the Day of Atonement, the priest would go in the holy of holies and sprinkle the mercy seat with the sacrifice that has been made for the sins of the people.
So Jesus presents Himself before the Father, not only His righteousness, but His sacrifice for our sins. And not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
And so the argument and debate goes on about "Did Jesus die for the sins of the whole world, or just for a few, that is, the ones that He has chosen?"
Well, the bible tells us that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, everybody's sins. But its application and its effectiveness is only for those who receive Him.
When the whole world stands before Christ, the only thing they will answer for is how they responded to Christ. That's it! And people will die in their sins because they have rejected Christ.
With that as the base and foundation of moving on, showing God's provision if we confess our sins, it's almost as if John was saying "Now as we go through this list, and you realize that you're not saved, just remember we've got a provision for your sins, so take advantage of it."
I understand Limited Atonement as the view that the death and sacrifice of Jesus was done only for those elected to salvation, and so, Jesus did not take on the sins of the whole of humanity. This may not be exactly what calvinists such as David view it.
You are "looking forward" to lots of (outraged responses?,)
Trinity?
Existence of Hell?
universalism?
Just curious.