Look at the Edomites today, the descendants of Ishmael. Do they turn to Israel and say "You're God's chosen people, praise God! And we're your neighbors. In fact, we're relatives. Praise God again. Let's just serve God together."
Isn't that what they are doing in the Middle East? No! There is hatred and violence against Israel and some of the Arab nations and the people in the Arab nations don't know why, but it's just "the way they do things!" It's really rebellion against God's choice. God didn't make them that way.
So, Verse 29 says "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son."
Because I am in Christ, I have been predestined by God to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. That is, the head of the body of Christ, as He is.
So just leaving you with that, as you can look up the word predestinate in a concordance. But with that in mind what I just shared with you; you can see that it always points to what God has predestinated us believers to be before Him.
Some might not agree, but I think this really solves all the arguments and the divisions in the body of Christ. Some people just want to send some people to Hell. They say "You know God chose or predestined you to go to Hell." Christ died for everybody. He knows ahead of time who's going to receive Him, but He never makes anybody receive Him or reject Him.
I see this even more when I get into Romans Chapter 9 because in Chapter 9, that's what it is dealing with. The argument is that if God chooses everything and everybody to be the way they are, then how can I be violating His will or His word? "I'm only being what He chose me to be!"
So, Paul's going to say "Is there unrighteousness with God? You mean He chose you to be an unrighteous person? That's His will for your life?" No, He didn't!
And there are some certain principles in the text that's going to teach us exactly God's approach to the whole thing. How did He choose Jacob over Esau before they were even born? "Jacob I have loved, and Esau I have hated."
What a terrible thing, unless we understand the wording and what it's applied to. Before they were born and before they did good or evil, God chose one of them through which would be the promised line of Messiah. That's not choosing Heaven or Hell, or righteousness or unrighteousness. Even Ishmael, when God said to Abraham that if Sarah wants to get out of here with her son, let them go. I'll take care of them.
It was the same with Cain and Abel. They both bring their sacrifice. Abel's was received. Cain's was rejected. Just to show you his heart, because it was rejected, he killed his brother. That just goes to show you why it wasn't received!
Here's the best way that I can explain what I'm talking about. If you were going to go in and apply for a job, one of the things you want to know is what are the benefits, what you have predestined for the person that's going to take that spot. What kind of dental care do you have? What kind of health benefits do you have? What's the pay going to be?
All of these things are predestined ahead of time for the person that's offered the job and accepts the job. So, if I walk in and I give my interview and they say we want you to work here and we want you to do this job if you are willing to do it, and I accept, I have all of these benefits waiting for me. They're mine!
And that is the presentation that Paul always makes, is that we are inheritors in Christ. And before the foundation of the world, things were chosen and predestined for us, that is, everybody that is saved.
Predestination in the bible never has anything to do with predestinating people for Heaven or Hell. It's never used that way. But people will say "Having predestinated us," and they stop right there! They say things like, "You see, I'm one of the "us" because I got predestined to be an "us."
That's not what it says. He's talking to saved people, not unsaved people. Every single time the word predestinated is used in the scriptures, it always makes reference to part of our inheritance in Christ, the things He predestined ahead of time for those who receive Him.
If He did not choose me and predestine me to be holy and without blame before Him in His love, I'd never be able to stand before Him. But I've received Christ as part of my inheritance.
I'm not saying that scholars like Calvin and some of the others are wrong. I can see in their presentations/arguments over the years that they did the best with what they had.
But we can now diagram and do a schematic of the whole chapter and show where the antecedents are and the we's and us's.
In Ephesians 1:4-5, it says, "According as He has chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world." As I mentioned, Ephesians 1:3-14 is all one sentence in the Greek text. And I would like to share a technical point. Whenever you have a noun, like a person, and you mention this person's name, and throughout the paragraph or chapter, you want to make reference to that person, you don't keep mentioning his name.
Let's say his name is Jesse. You don't keep saying Jesse in every sentence. Once you're introduced to the person, you make reference to "him," and "he." Those are all pronouns and its antecedent is Jesse so that whenever you see he or him in the sentences, you know who this person is talking about.
So, Jesse becomes the antecedent once it's introduced. Now what is interesting, take a look at the pronouns? According as He has chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world.
Who's the "Us?" And that we should be holy without blame before Him in love. Having predestinated us for adoption. In this text, in Verses 3 through 14, the subject in the Greek text is in Verses 13 and 14, way beyond all of this. So, the antecedent to us and we, who's the us and we?
So, I got to find out who or what the antecedent is for us and we. If you go to Verses 13 and 14, it tells you "We who have heard the gospel, we who have believed, and we who have been sealed with the Holy Spirit of God.
That's who the us and we are!
God has predestinated us, having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ. The adoption process has been predestined for us so that we can become children of God, according as He has chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world. Later on, it says that He has predestinated us to be holy without blame just like He did in Verse 4.
"For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren."
For whom he did foreknow (that is, know ahead of time), he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son,
With predestination being one of the more recent topics, I would like to share my understanding on what predestination means. I'm no bible scholar by any means, but I actually think that predestination in the bible is fairly simple to understand. To begin with, I just want to say upfront that I do not believe God chooses ahead of time who will be saved and who will not.
In the Greek text, Ephesians 1:3-14 is all one sentence. And that's the chapter that many people focus on when it comes to predestination. The most prominent teaching on predestination that we have today comes from John Calvin, and there are differences as people take different turns with it as to what predestination means.
But the one that's going around that people hold to a lot is that predestination means that God predestines or chooses those who are going to be saved ahead of time, and He predestines those who are going to go to Hell ahead of time.
So according to that belief, you are chosen and predestined as to whether you are going to go to Heaven or Hell. In other words, you have no choice. There's no free will according to this teaching. You are either predestined one way or the other.
But if I read this text in context, here's what it says: For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate. Predestinate what? To be conformed to the image of his Son.
I'll make a point-blank statement, and some may agree, some may not, but predestination is never associated with salvation in the bible. You will always see the word associated with those who are already saved. And it won't be for salvation. It's what has been predestined or chosen for us as part of our inheritance.
RED APPLE TREATY 4 ME ONLY on Ephesians 5:9 - 8 months ago
""Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;" Ephesians 5:20 KJV
My Respond:
06/23/2024; COGIC Sunday School book
I worship God of heaven and earth.God that allows you to become like him. God of accomplishments that are done giving us what you need to obey him.God that gives you knowledge to treat others , be a good employee, parent, spouse. God that blesses. God of all eyes. God of morals. God of subjection." Giving God thanks for allowing me always to become like our Lord Jesus Christ.
18Then answered the Jews and said unto him,What sign shew you unto us,seeing that you does these things?
19Jesus answered:Destroy this temple,in three days I will raise it up.
20Then said the Jews,Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt you rear it up in THREE days?
21But He spake of the temple of His body(both physic an spiritual body-the Church, even now in His return in this 3rd DAY,as prophesied Hosea 6:2-3:
2After two days will He revive us:in the THIRD DAY He will raise us up,and we shall live in His sight.
3Then shall we know,if we follow on to know the Lord:his going forth is prepared as the morning;and He shall come unto us as the rain,as the latter and former rain unto the earth.
Exodus 19:9-11-the WONDERFUL EVENT OF THE CLOUD-the same will occur soon in JESUS's coming.
9And the Lord said unto Moses, Lo,I come unto thee in a thick CLOUD that the people may hear when I speak with thee,and believe thee for ever.And Moses told the words of the people unto the Lord.
10And the Lord said unto Moses,Go unto the people,and sanctify them to DAY and to MORROW, and let them WASH their clothes,
11And be READY against the THIRD DAY:for the THIRD DAY the Lord will come down in the sight of all the people upon mount Sinai.
Revelation 19:5-9
5And a voice came out of the throne,saying,Praise our GOD,all ye His servants,and ye that fear him,both small and great.
6And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude,and as the voice of many waters,and as the voice of mighty thunderings,saying, Alleluia:for the Lord GOD Omnipotent reigns.
7Let us be glad and rejoice,and give honour to Him:for the marriage of the Lamb is come,and His wife has made herself READY.
8And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white:for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
9And he says unto me,Write,Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb.And he says unto me,These are the true sayings of GOD
Hello again S. spencer. I think that regeneration and the rebirth are the same thing, also referred to as being born anew, born again, born from above, made alive.
I was agreeing with David's belief that God elects and brings to salvation those He predestined to be saved through Jesus Christ alone (monergistically). So, I apologize if I was unclear when i first entered the conversation. However, I think I have explained myself well in the responses I gave to you so I think we can depart from this aspect of the conversation.
"And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising."
The entire chapter numbered 60 of Isaiah serves as pendent to the first 10 verses of Is.40. Thy light refers to Zion which is in heaven. "The mighty God, even the Lord, hath spoken, and called the earth from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof./Out of Zion, the perfection of beauty, God hath shined".(Ps.50:1-2) But did the nation of Israel care? When God brought them from Egypt with a mighty arm, they murmured. They loathed the angel's food. Then they asked for a king to rule them as other nations. So God commanded Samuel to hearken to their demand. They had rejected their God. It was part of their warfare.
"Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished."(Is.40:2).
In the manner they rejected the prophets send to them elicited this from their 'Messiah' woe to ye, he lamented. (Matt.23:31-36). They rejected the true Light and what was the point? "There was no light in them. (Is.8:20). It was to them Jesus asked, "Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?"(Matt.32:32). So they were cast off and only when the finally realize their folly, the Spirit speaks through the prophet, "Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the Lord is risen upon thee." The light of revelation did not come from within but from above. They were received as the Gentile nations because of holiness. "Be ye holy. for I am holy' in other times fell on deaf ears but Zion and New Jerusalem as one, qualified as the light of the Lamb. "And the Lamb is the light thereof./And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it./And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day."(Re.21:23-25) cf."Therefore thy gates shall be open continually; they shall not be shut day nor night;"(Is.60:11)
15For this we say unto you by the Word of the Lord,that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout,with the voice of the archangel(Michael- Daniel 12:1-3),and with the trump of GOD:and the dead in Christ shall rise first:(resurrection of the believers)
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the CLOUD(same cloud of Acts 1:9-11),to meet the Lord in the AIR(on high,3rd heaven,THE NEXT TO BE ESTABLISHED BY THE ALMIGHTY GOD- Micah 4:1-8 combined with 2Corinthians 12:2-4 and Luke 20:35-36,and John 14:3 and John 17:24,among other biblical references),and so shall we(THE ELECTS)ever be with the Lord.
Matthew 25:6&10
6And at midnight there was a cry made(TURN from the sixth to the seventh Day-Lord's Day),Behold,the bridegroom cometh;GO YOU OUT TO MEET HIM.
10...the bridegroom came;and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage:and the door was shut.
Get ready
2Thessalonians 1:7-12
7And to you who are troubled rest with us,when the Lord Jesus shall be REVEALED from heaven with his mighty angels,
8In flaming FIRE taking VENGEANCE on them that know not GOD ( Matthew 11:27),and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9Who shall be PUNISHED with everlasting DESTRUCTION from the PRESENCE of the Lord,and from the Glory of His Power;
10When he shall come to be glorified in his saints,and to be admired in all them that believe(because our testimony among you was believed)in that day.->Lord's Day,seventh and last Day
26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.
Here's the message for today, and for days ahead, day by day, and henceforward, until the END of all things, and END this world as a whole.
Genesis 19:13 reveals the voice sounded in Sodom: We will destroy this place,... but now, even now, from now on, the same voice will destroy the current world of Devil as a whole, as was prophesied, since ancient time. The same Word, the Word of GOD, GOD Himself, must sound, self-executing it. Heavens and earth shall PASS AWAY, but my Words shall not pass away, says my Lord, so
Get ready
There shall be wrath against the wicked- Romans 2:8-9 combined with Revelation 11:18, among many biblical references- see, only Judgment and Justice will support you. Righteousness and Judgment are the foundation of GOD's Throne.
Opinion is good for nothing,what matters and prevails is the Word of GOD,the Word is GOD,self-executing,understand? According to the prophetic Word of our Lord JESUS,at midnight,at the turn from the sixth to the seventh Day(seventh and last millennium), while the bridegroom tarried,all SLUMBERED and slept.Sleeping deeply and is not discerning the current time,time of the righteous Judgment of GOD,the Judgment Seat of Christ.As JESUS warned propheticaly, saying--> Luke 17:28-30:
28And as it was in the days of Lot, they did eat,they drank,they bought,they sold,they planted,they builded(now, now, this LITERALLY is fulfilling,and the punishments shall also be applied in whole world of the Devil in fulilment of what was prophesied by the Lord,as is written):
29But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30Even thus shall it be in this Day(the seventh)when the Son of man is revealed.
In this current time,seventh and last millennium,it is JESUS who is in control of History,nothing random happens.Mat.28:18&20: ->18 All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
->20 And I am with you always,even unto the END of the world. Amen.
THE END OF THE WORLD- 1Corinthians 15:24-27
24 The END cometh when He shall have delivered up the KINGDOM to GOD, even the Father; when He shall have PUT DOWN ALL RULE AND ALL AUTHORITY and POWER.
25 For he must reign,till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
LITERAL FULFILLMENT OF ABOVE- Revelation 11:15-18
15...The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the kingdoms of our Lord,and of his Christ;and He shall reign for ever and ever.
...
18-And the nations were(WILL BE)angry, and GOD'S WRATH is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be Judged, and that GOD should give reward unto His servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear His name, small and great; and should DESTROY them which destroy the earth.
1 Kings 8:16 Since the day that I (God, the Father) brought forth my people Israel out of Egypt, I (the Father) chose no city out of the tribes of Israel to build an house, that MY NAME might be therein; but I (the Father) chose David to be over my people Israel.
Even though this is history, it is also a shadow of the kingdom of God, you notice it is God doing everything.
Also, it had already been prophesied Christ, the PROMISED SEED, would be the true Israel, the true city where God's NAME might be therein, and Christ would, of the flesh, come from the lineage of David.
1 Kings 8:17 And it was in the heart of David my (Solomon's) father to build an house for the NAME of the LORD God of Israel.
1 Kings 8:18 And the Lord (God, the Father) said to David my father, Whereas it is in thine heart (because God had chosen him to accomplish his works) to build a house unto my NAME, thou doest well that it is in thine heart (David had the indwelling of the Holy Spirit).
1 Kings 8:19 Nonetheless ye shall not build the house, but thy son that shall come forth out of thy loins (this is a prophecy that it would be CHRIST, a son of Davids loins, that would build the temple of God, Christ being the corner stone and we being the living stones, where God's NAME is therein), HE (Christ) SHALL BUILD THE HOUSE UNTO MY NAME.
Can you see why we are baptized in THE NAME of Christ, we were made ONE FLESH by his resurrection.
The material things are figures of spiritual things,the parables of our Lord JESUS are good examples.By the way,the letter kills,the Spirit gives life-2Co.3:6.The angel of the Lord,John the Baptist,said:he that is of the earth is earthly,and speaketh of the earth-Jo.3:31.
This says he that has the key of David,he that opens,and no man shutteth;and shuts,and no man openeth;
The heavens and the earth,which are now(the 1st and 2nd heavens,the 3rd heaven will be established from now on),by the same Word(Word of GOD,the Word is GOD,GOD Himself,self-executing)are kept in store,reserved unto FIRE against this Day of Judgment and perdition of ungodly men,the heavens(the 1st and 2nd heavens,the 3rd will be established from now on)shall pass away with a great noise,and the elements shall melt with fervent heat,the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up- 2Peter 3:7and 10 and Matthew 10:28 combined with Isaiah 33:10-14,take a look.
So,our thinking can not be from a mere human perspective,but from GOD's perspective revealed in His Word,you know the Word is GOD, GOD Himself,self-executing.JESUS made it clear saying to the Jews:Mat.23:33-Ye serpents,ye generation of vipers,how can ye escape the damnation of hell?->the hell's fire,of course- Matthew 10:28.Take a look.
Matthew 25:31-34&41
31When the Son of man shall come in His glory,and all the holy angels with him,then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32And before him shall be gathered all nations:and he shall separate them one from another,as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand,but the goats on the left.
34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand,Come,ye blessed of my Father,inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand,Depart from me,ye cursed,into everlasting fire,prepared for the Devil and his angels:->these shall go away into everlasting punishment.
That is the way he "David" described it his view. This view he described is Limited Atonement.
He made it very clear, unfortunately that's where you came in and agreed with him.
And the view you described is that "the love offering of the Lamb of God and INVITATION of the free gift is limited by God, and Christ sacrificial death on the cross wasn't for all, and his foreknowledge had no part in declaring his elect.
Gigi, I believe God knows who will come to him, However the invitation goes out to everyone.
Whosoever thirst, come!!
That is what was being debated in the beginning of the debate.
2 Corinthians 5:15 "And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
We also are told to examine ourselves. 2 Corinthians 13:5 "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
And you are right we feed on the SINCERE "undeceitful" milk of the word that ye may grow thereby: 1 Petee 2:2. (Truth)
NO ONE knows it all but as we learn we share.
WE ARE CALLED IN ONE HOPE OF OUR CALLING;
There is one Spirit that we are baptized by. (We are Identified with Christ and should be Identified with one another.
Ephesians 4:4-5 reads "There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
However there are those who oppose the faith and has done so since the beginning.
Jude speaks of this in his writings.
Paul says in Romans 16:17 "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; AND AVOID THEM.
Jaz, I don't know it all, very little in fact when considering the great teacher's I benefit off of and great teacher's I have run across on this site.
I could not help but point out what you state as some doctrine of man as something sacred is worth dragging in. You write. "Universalism teaches that every human will be saved whether they believe or accept Christ or not." Universalism smells of human sweat and his play on words. Why drag in some one else's leftover as though it merits a debate? God gave you indwelling Spirit since your love for the word no one shall dispute. Be careful how you connect verses in the word of God. In whichever way you make out of various passage the simple yardstick is: God shall never do contrary to his holiness. I know you are intended to fortify yourself with more solid food than milk, so let God work with you more effectively.
The Spirit cites the coming of the messenger in.v.3. "The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight in the desert a highway for our God." We know from the Gospel of John that he recognized Jesus by same Word that marked him before his birth for his ministry. So what does he say, "And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!"( John 1:36). The Spirit in v.9 rounds it off where the exhortation of John did come from. "O Zion, that bringest good tidings, get thee up into the high mountain; O Jerusalem, that bringest good tidings," The Gospel tells how Jesus was pointed out to him from the crowd in a public place. So the Spirit the expression "Behold your God!"is tied up with the Advent of Jesus Christ. Zion is established by God in the 'now' and in heaven. (Is.28:16). Jerusalem claimed by David from Jabusites is the city of David (2 Sam.5:6-10). Jerusalem and Zion founded in heaven is the holy city of God open to all saints. "Gather my saints together unto me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice."(Ps.50:5). In short the first 9 verses refer to his second appearance in mid-air: "Behold, the Lord God will come with strong hand, and his arm shall rule for him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him."(v.10)
It is further supported by v.5. " And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it." "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen."(Re.1:7) All kindreds of the earth is what Isaiah refers to as 'All flesh shall see it together'.
vv.1-2 is pendent on the above. "For she hath received of the Lord's hand double for all her sins." Nevertheless a remnant shall be allowed. Significant is the term" double"- the kingdom is taken away from them. Re.21:25.
Thanks for that information Brother . To be honest , I don't worry too much about what other people believe . A Christian to me is someone who believes in the Holy One of Israel as the only everlasting God and in His Son Jesus Christ ( born of a virgin by the power of God's Holy Spirit ) and Christ's sinless life , willing death and resurrection to eternal life , and who also reads the Bible regularly to enhance their understanding and who prays to God , through the mediation of Jesus Christ our Sinless High Priest .
The Bible is a big book , we shall not understand every single part of it in this life , it's given to us by God to help us , to help us to grow closer to Him by learning about Him and His ways and His purpose and His promises and His Son . If we are reading it everyday with open hearts and minds then that is what will happen . We will GROW , growth sometimes requires us to change , to change what we think and believe as we keep LEARNING . This is my goal as a Christian , to keep learning and growing , hopefully closet to God through His Living Word . This is enough to keep me busy , if I can help someone else on their Christian journey , I will . This site to me , is part of that . Hopefully . May God bless you and all of us on here as we try to grow ourselves , and help each other to do so .
You make a very good point that I can't and won't argue with . I have always thought that the reason Michal did not have children to David ( 2nd Samuel chapter 6 ) was not because of her reaction to David's dancing , even though that's what the narrative states . I think that it was because if David had had children with her then they would have also been Saul's grandchildren . I think it can be very easy for us to just read the words in the Bible without thinking too much about them from a human perspective , I always try to put myself in others shoes and see how I would feel or what I might think if I was there . That means that I might get things wrong sometimes but sometimes I think I can see beyond the words . The life of David is a bit like a really well written soap opera , full of twists and turns , but you are of course correct , as David himself says : God directs his feet . God bless you too .
You never say "accept Christ" because the Bible never tells us to accept Him. It does tell us to receive Him. To me, to accept just means to mentally agree with something or someone.
The v. 14 quoted from Daniel informs us that Universalism goes with the truth Jesus Christ as the Saviour of the whole world. Salvator mundi. Whosoever approaches him is received as Jesus on the cross revealed. God called everyone but left it to his Son. There are no exceptions with the Holy One. "And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him."(Dan.7:27). Both heaven and the earth as indicated by the two great lights in the everlasting covenant.
"To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One."
In order to understand the role of nations let us first understand what God is. "He is omnipresent" so Time is zero. So is space. In short His kingdom which we call as everlasting to everlasting is in the "now". There is no comparison with our earth time. The Spirit has however set the earth time in relation to His nature,- Holiness giving us the Person of Jesus Christ. His earthly ministry makes us relate our nature in step with His nature. We shall illustrate this in terms of our heartbeats We have 60 to 100 while the heartbeats of a blue whale is 1.8 seconds. A rodent say a shrew has 1500 beats per minute. We synchronise our lives on the basis where every terrestrial creature can be set on as single standard accordingly. It is thus the Spirit has set Jesus Christ as the Way because he ascended to heaven and Jesus Christ as the truth since he came from heaven to set an example. It is thus we set Israel as an example which means nothing in terms of heaven. So when Jesus says, "But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up." (Matt.15:13). Without Jesus there is no way a nation can be counted in the sight of God
"Now is the day of Salvation" is in context of the grace brought to the world by Jesus. That ye receive not the grace of God in vain.(2 Co.6:1-2) Nature of God his holiness has been revealed. That which is a quality associated with God mercy or grace is what the tern "now" represents for us. By the same token when Jesus Christ says, "Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom."( Luke 12:32), this is the everlasting kingdom revealed to Daniel in a night vision, "And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away." (Dan.7:14)
"Behold, the days come, that all that is in thine house, and that which thy fathers have laid up in store until this day, shall be carried to Babylon: nothing shall be left, saith the Lord."
These words of Isaiah must have come as a let down to King Hezekiah who having showed showed the glory of his house,- all the war trophies, peace offerings and tributes brought from other nations to his guest, naturally he expected to be complimented. The illustrious names of David and Solomon were 'treasures' indeed. A man born with a silver spoon in his mouth think it is glorious to dine off the golden plate. The king was a show off. Now it fell to the prophet to bring the news of disaster. Before we move on to the topic of nations we need focus on the glory of nations.
What glory sinful men calls is defied in the sight of God. What is the glory of superpowers? The banana wars brought gold into the treasury but what is the mess piling up south of the border? History of nations is a sordid tale of greed and violence and the more glory they seek the deeper they find stuck in mire. The same prophet speak of the glory of Zion instead. It is what the expression" unto this day" in the key verse leads to.
"Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee./The multitude of camels shall cover thee, the dromedaries of Midian and Ephah; all they from Sheba shall come: they shall bring gold and incense; and they shall shew forth the praises of the LORD." (Is.60:5-6) This spiritual kingdom is established by God before the worlds began. It is to which the word of God exhorts us in this exquisite line, "But they that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint."(Is.40: 28-31)
Thank you for those words. I do agree that salvation is offered to all through Christ, but not all will receive Him. Romans 10:8-10 which you have shared is a promise to everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord, that they will, not might, but they will be saved.
But yes, there has to be a response. A person must receive Christ. Please know that I never say "accept Christ" because the Bible never tells us to accept Him. It does tell us to receive Him. To me, to accept just means to mentally agree with something or someone. A person must receive Christ!
As far as there having to be a response from us, did you know that we are saints by calling?
In some of Paul's letters, we see the phrase "called to be saints," and the words "to be" are in italics. It's because the words "to be" were added. We are not called to be saints. We are called saints. It is God who called us, and we simply responded to the call!
And yes, I agree with you on the future restoration of the Jewish/Hebrew people. I believe that when Christ returns, every Jew alive on this earth will then realize that He is their Messiah that they crucified, and they will be saved!
Yes, you already answered and stated your position. We came to an agreement and I have moved on and forgotten about because I thought we were done with that conversation. But since you are bringing it back up, please allow me to reshare your exact words to SeanPaul:
You said to him, "You make a good point about people who use these versions not being true Christians and I agree with you for those you have been made to see the truth in this."
Now you are telling me that I "really didn't understand" what you were saying, but your statement was quite clear to me as to what you were agreeing with, or at least what you thought was a "good point."
And no, I did not think that you agreed with someone who said Christians who use bible versions other than the KJB are in sin because that's not what you said. What you seemed to agree with was that these people were not true Christians if they read any other Bible than the KJV.
Please reread your exact words which I have quoted. I'm not sure how else to interpret what you said. If that's not what you meant and you simply made a mistake by telling SeanPaul that he made a good point about those who read different bibles not being true Christians, then that's fine, let's move on!
(Part 5):
Look at the Edomites today, the descendants of Ishmael. Do they turn to Israel and say "You're God's chosen people, praise God! And we're your neighbors. In fact, we're relatives. Praise God again. Let's just serve God together."
Isn't that what they are doing in the Middle East? No! There is hatred and violence against Israel and some of the Arab nations and the people in the Arab nations don't know why, but it's just "the way they do things!" It's really rebellion against God's choice. God didn't make them that way.
So, Verse 29 says "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son."
Because I am in Christ, I have been predestined by God to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. That is, the head of the body of Christ, as He is.
Blessings in Christ!
(Part 4):
So just leaving you with that, as you can look up the word predestinate in a concordance. But with that in mind what I just shared with you; you can see that it always points to what God has predestinated us believers to be before Him.
Some might not agree, but I think this really solves all the arguments and the divisions in the body of Christ. Some people just want to send some people to Hell. They say "You know God chose or predestined you to go to Hell." Christ died for everybody. He knows ahead of time who's going to receive Him, but He never makes anybody receive Him or reject Him.
I see this even more when I get into Romans Chapter 9 because in Chapter 9, that's what it is dealing with. The argument is that if God chooses everything and everybody to be the way they are, then how can I be violating His will or His word? "I'm only being what He chose me to be!"
So, Paul's going to say "Is there unrighteousness with God? You mean He chose you to be an unrighteous person? That's His will for your life?" No, He didn't!
And there are some certain principles in the text that's going to teach us exactly God's approach to the whole thing. How did He choose Jacob over Esau before they were even born? "Jacob I have loved, and Esau I have hated."
What a terrible thing, unless we understand the wording and what it's applied to. Before they were born and before they did good or evil, God chose one of them through which would be the promised line of Messiah. That's not choosing Heaven or Hell, or righteousness or unrighteousness. Even Ishmael, when God said to Abraham that if Sarah wants to get out of here with her son, let them go. I'll take care of them.
It was the same with Cain and Abel. They both bring their sacrifice. Abel's was received. Cain's was rejected. Just to show you his heart, because it was rejected, he killed his brother. That just goes to show you why it wasn't received!
(Part 3):
Here's the best way that I can explain what I'm talking about. If you were going to go in and apply for a job, one of the things you want to know is what are the benefits, what you have predestined for the person that's going to take that spot. What kind of dental care do you have? What kind of health benefits do you have? What's the pay going to be?
All of these things are predestined ahead of time for the person that's offered the job and accepts the job. So, if I walk in and I give my interview and they say we want you to work here and we want you to do this job if you are willing to do it, and I accept, I have all of these benefits waiting for me. They're mine!
And that is the presentation that Paul always makes, is that we are inheritors in Christ. And before the foundation of the world, things were chosen and predestined for us, that is, everybody that is saved.
Predestination in the bible never has anything to do with predestinating people for Heaven or Hell. It's never used that way. But people will say "Having predestinated us," and they stop right there! They say things like, "You see, I'm one of the "us" because I got predestined to be an "us."
That's not what it says. He's talking to saved people, not unsaved people. Every single time the word predestinated is used in the scriptures, it always makes reference to part of our inheritance in Christ, the things He predestined ahead of time for those who receive Him.
If He did not choose me and predestine me to be holy and without blame before Him in His love, I'd never be able to stand before Him. But I've received Christ as part of my inheritance.
I'm not saying that scholars like Calvin and some of the others are wrong. I can see in their presentations/arguments over the years that they did the best with what they had.
But we can now diagram and do a schematic of the whole chapter and show where the antecedents are and the we's and us's.
It's always the saved people!
(Part 2):
In Ephesians 1:4-5, it says, "According as He has chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world." As I mentioned, Ephesians 1:3-14 is all one sentence in the Greek text. And I would like to share a technical point. Whenever you have a noun, like a person, and you mention this person's name, and throughout the paragraph or chapter, you want to make reference to that person, you don't keep mentioning his name.
Let's say his name is Jesse. You don't keep saying Jesse in every sentence. Once you're introduced to the person, you make reference to "him," and "he." Those are all pronouns and its antecedent is Jesse so that whenever you see he or him in the sentences, you know who this person is talking about.
So, Jesse becomes the antecedent once it's introduced. Now what is interesting, take a look at the pronouns? According as He has chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world.
Who's the "Us?" And that we should be holy without blame before Him in love. Having predestinated us for adoption. In this text, in Verses 3 through 14, the subject in the Greek text is in Verses 13 and 14, way beyond all of this. So, the antecedent to us and we, who's the us and we?
So, I got to find out who or what the antecedent is for us and we. If you go to Verses 13 and 14, it tells you "We who have heard the gospel, we who have believed, and we who have been sealed with the Holy Spirit of God.
That's who the us and we are!
God has predestinated us, having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ. The adoption process has been predestined for us so that we can become children of God, according as He has chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world. Later on, it says that He has predestinated us to be holy without blame just like He did in Verse 4.
(Part 1):
"For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren."
For whom he did foreknow (that is, know ahead of time), he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son,
With predestination being one of the more recent topics, I would like to share my understanding on what predestination means. I'm no bible scholar by any means, but I actually think that predestination in the bible is fairly simple to understand. To begin with, I just want to say upfront that I do not believe God chooses ahead of time who will be saved and who will not.
In the Greek text, Ephesians 1:3-14 is all one sentence. And that's the chapter that many people focus on when it comes to predestination. The most prominent teaching on predestination that we have today comes from John Calvin, and there are differences as people take different turns with it as to what predestination means.
But the one that's going around that people hold to a lot is that predestination means that God predestines or chooses those who are going to be saved ahead of time, and He predestines those who are going to go to Hell ahead of time.
So according to that belief, you are chosen and predestined as to whether you are going to go to Heaven or Hell. In other words, you have no choice. There's no free will according to this teaching. You are either predestined one way or the other.
But if I read this text in context, here's what it says: For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate. Predestinate what? To be conformed to the image of his Son.
I'll make a point-blank statement, and some may agree, some may not, but predestination is never associated with salvation in the bible. You will always see the word associated with those who are already saved. And it won't be for salvation. It's what has been predestined or chosen for us as part of our inheritance.
My Respond:
06/23/2024; COGIC Sunday School book
I worship God of heaven and earth.God that allows you to become like him. God of accomplishments that are done giving us what you need to obey him.God that gives you knowledge to treat others , be a good employee, parent, spouse. God that blesses. God of all eyes. God of morals. God of subjection." Giving God thanks for allowing me always to become like our Lord Jesus Christ.
18Then answered the Jews and said unto him,What sign shew you unto us,seeing that you does these things?
19Jesus answered:Destroy this temple,in three days I will raise it up.
20Then said the Jews,Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt you rear it up in THREE days?
21But He spake of the temple of His body(both physic an spiritual body-the Church, even now in His return in this 3rd DAY,as prophesied Hosea 6:2-3:
2After two days will He revive us:in the THIRD DAY He will raise us up,and we shall live in His sight.
3Then shall we know,if we follow on to know the Lord:his going forth is prepared as the morning;and He shall come unto us as the rain,as the latter and former rain unto the earth.
Exodus 19:9-11-the WONDERFUL EVENT OF THE CLOUD-the same will occur soon in JESUS's coming.
9And the Lord said unto Moses, Lo,I come unto thee in a thick CLOUD that the people may hear when I speak with thee,and believe thee for ever.And Moses told the words of the people unto the Lord.
10And the Lord said unto Moses,Go unto the people,and sanctify them to DAY and to MORROW, and let them WASH their clothes,
11And be READY against the THIRD DAY:for the THIRD DAY the Lord will come down in the sight of all the people upon mount Sinai.
Revelation 19:5-9
5And a voice came out of the throne,saying,Praise our GOD,all ye His servants,and ye that fear him,both small and great.
6And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude,and as the voice of many waters,and as the voice of mighty thunderings,saying, Alleluia:for the Lord GOD Omnipotent reigns.
7Let us be glad and rejoice,and give honour to Him:for the marriage of the Lamb is come,and His wife has made herself READY.
8And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white:for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
9And he says unto me,Write,Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb.And he says unto me,These are the true sayings of GOD
I do not have time at this moment to share my own thoughts, but welcome the input from others. I hope to get back to this later today or tomorrow.
I was agreeing with David's belief that God elects and brings to salvation those He predestined to be saved through Jesus Christ alone (monergistically). So, I apologize if I was unclear when i first entered the conversation. However, I think I have explained myself well in the responses I gave to you so I think we can depart from this aspect of the conversation.
"And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising."
The entire chapter numbered 60 of Isaiah serves as pendent to the first 10 verses of Is.40. Thy light refers to Zion which is in heaven. "The mighty God, even the Lord, hath spoken, and called the earth from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof./Out of Zion, the perfection of beauty, God hath shined".(Ps.50:1-2) But did the nation of Israel care? When God brought them from Egypt with a mighty arm, they murmured. They loathed the angel's food. Then they asked for a king to rule them as other nations. So God commanded Samuel to hearken to their demand. They had rejected their God. It was part of their warfare.
"Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished."(Is.40:2).
In the manner they rejected the prophets send to them elicited this from their 'Messiah' woe to ye, he lamented. (Matt.23:31-36). They rejected the true Light and what was the point? "There was no light in them. (Is.8:20). It was to them Jesus asked, "Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?"(Matt.32:32). So they were cast off and only when the finally realize their folly, the Spirit speaks through the prophet, "Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the Lord is risen upon thee." The light of revelation did not come from within but from above. They were received as the Gentile nations because of holiness. "Be ye holy. for I am holy' in other times fell on deaf ears but Zion and New Jerusalem as one, qualified as the light of the Lamb. "And the Lamb is the light thereof./And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it./And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day."(Re.21:23-25) cf."Therefore thy gates shall be open continually; they shall not be shut day nor night;"(Is.60:11)
15For this we say unto you by the Word of the Lord,that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout,with the voice of the archangel(Michael- Daniel 12:1-3),and with the trump of GOD:and the dead in Christ shall rise first:(resurrection of the believers)
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the CLOUD(same cloud of Acts 1:9-11),to meet the Lord in the AIR(on high,3rd heaven,THE NEXT TO BE ESTABLISHED BY THE ALMIGHTY GOD- Micah 4:1-8 combined with 2Corinthians 12:2-4 and Luke 20:35-36,and John 14:3 and John 17:24,among other biblical references),and so shall we(THE ELECTS)ever be with the Lord.
Matthew 25:6&10
6And at midnight there was a cry made(TURN from the sixth to the seventh Day-Lord's Day),Behold,the bridegroom cometh;GO YOU OUT TO MEET HIM.
10...the bridegroom came;and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage:and the door was shut.
Get ready
2Thessalonians 1:7-12
7And to you who are troubled rest with us,when the Lord Jesus shall be REVEALED from heaven with his mighty angels,
8In flaming FIRE taking VENGEANCE on them that know not GOD ( Matthew 11:27),and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9Who shall be PUNISHED with everlasting DESTRUCTION from the PRESENCE of the Lord,and from the Glory of His Power;
10When he shall come to be glorified in his saints,and to be admired in all them that believe(because our testimony among you was believed)in that day.->Lord's Day,seventh and last Day
26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.
Here's the message for today, and for days ahead, day by day, and henceforward, until the END of all things, and END this world as a whole.
Genesis 19:13 reveals the voice sounded in Sodom: We will destroy this place,... but now, even now, from now on, the same voice will destroy the current world of Devil as a whole, as was prophesied, since ancient time. The same Word, the Word of GOD, GOD Himself, must sound, self-executing it. Heavens and earth shall PASS AWAY, but my Words shall not pass away, says my Lord, so
Get ready
There shall be wrath against the wicked- Romans 2:8-9 combined with Revelation 11:18, among many biblical references- see, only Judgment and Justice will support you. Righteousness and Judgment are the foundation of GOD's Throne.
Get read
28And as it was in the days of Lot, they did eat,they drank,they bought,they sold,they planted,they builded(now, now, this LITERALLY is fulfilling,and the punishments shall also be applied in whole world of the Devil in fulilment of what was prophesied by the Lord,as is written):
29But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30Even thus shall it be in this Day(the seventh)when the Son of man is revealed.
In this current time,seventh and last millennium,it is JESUS who is in control of History,nothing random happens.Mat.28:18&20: ->18 All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
->20 And I am with you always,even unto the END of the world. Amen.
THE END OF THE WORLD- 1Corinthians 15:24-27
24 The END cometh when He shall have delivered up the KINGDOM to GOD, even the Father; when He shall have PUT DOWN ALL RULE AND ALL AUTHORITY and POWER.
25 For he must reign,till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
LITERAL FULFILLMENT OF ABOVE- Revelation 11:15-18
15...The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the kingdoms of our Lord,and of his Christ;and He shall reign for ever and ever.
...
18-And the nations were(WILL BE)angry, and GOD'S WRATH is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be Judged, and that GOD should give reward unto His servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear His name, small and great; and should DESTROY them which destroy the earth.
Start with verse 16
1 Kings 8:16 Since the day that I (God, the Father) brought forth my people Israel out of Egypt, I (the Father) chose no city out of the tribes of Israel to build an house, that MY NAME might be therein; but I (the Father) chose David to be over my people Israel.
Even though this is history, it is also a shadow of the kingdom of God, you notice it is God doing everything.
Also, it had already been prophesied Christ, the PROMISED SEED, would be the true Israel, the true city where God's NAME might be therein, and Christ would, of the flesh, come from the lineage of David.
1 Kings 8:17 And it was in the heart of David my (Solomon's) father to build an house for the NAME of the LORD God of Israel.
1 Kings 8:18 And the Lord (God, the Father) said to David my father, Whereas it is in thine heart (because God had chosen him to accomplish his works) to build a house unto my NAME, thou doest well that it is in thine heart (David had the indwelling of the Holy Spirit).
1 Kings 8:19 Nonetheless ye shall not build the house, but thy son that shall come forth out of thy loins (this is a prophecy that it would be CHRIST, a son of Davids loins, that would build the temple of God, Christ being the corner stone and we being the living stones, where God's NAME is therein), HE (Christ) SHALL BUILD THE HOUSE UNTO MY NAME.
Can you see why we are baptized in THE NAME of Christ, we were made ONE FLESH by his resurrection.
God Bless You
This says he that has the key of David,he that opens,and no man shutteth;and shuts,and no man openeth;
The heavens and the earth,which are now(the 1st and 2nd heavens,the 3rd heaven will be established from now on),by the same Word(Word of GOD,the Word is GOD,GOD Himself,self-executing)are kept in store,reserved unto FIRE against this Day of Judgment and perdition of ungodly men,the heavens(the 1st and 2nd heavens,the 3rd will be established from now on)shall pass away with a great noise,and the elements shall melt with fervent heat,the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up- 2Peter 3:7and 10 and Matthew 10:28 combined with Isaiah 33:10-14,take a look.
So,our thinking can not be from a mere human perspective,but from GOD's perspective revealed in His Word,you know the Word is GOD, GOD Himself,self-executing.JESUS made it clear saying to the Jews:Mat.23:33-Ye serpents,ye generation of vipers,how can ye escape the damnation of hell?->the hell's fire,of course- Matthew 10:28.Take a look.
Matthew 25:31-34&41
31When the Son of man shall come in His glory,and all the holy angels with him,then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32And before him shall be gathered all nations:and he shall separate them one from another,as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand,but the goats on the left.
34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand,Come,ye blessed of my Father,inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand,Depart from me,ye cursed,into everlasting fire,prepared for the Devil and his angels:->these shall go away into everlasting punishment.
I need to edit my response.
I ran together a few paragraphs.
Here's how it should read.
"Yes Gigi,
That is the way he "David" described it his view. This view he described is Limited Atonement.
He made it very clear, unfortunately that's where you came in and agreed with him.
And the view you described is that "the love offering of the Lamb of God and INVITATION of the free gift is limited by God, and Christ sacrificial death on the cross wasn't for all, and his foreknowledge had no part in declaring his elect.
Gigi, I believe God knows who will come to him, However the invitation goes out to everyone.
Whosoever thirst, come!!
That is what was being debated in the beginning of the debate.
God bless.
To sum it up, Christianity is a Birth from above.
We are led by Christ Spirit from within.
We are the body of Christ.
We present him, Not ourselves.
2 Corinthians 5:15 "And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
We also are told to examine ourselves. 2 Corinthians 13:5 "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
And you are right we feed on the SINCERE "undeceitful" milk of the word that ye may grow thereby: 1 Petee 2:2. (Truth)
NO ONE knows it all but as we learn we share.
WE ARE CALLED IN ONE HOPE OF OUR CALLING;
There is one Spirit that we are baptized by. (We are Identified with Christ and should be Identified with one another.
Ephesians 4:4-5 reads "There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
However there are those who oppose the faith and has done so since the beginning.
Jude speaks of this in his writings.
Paul says in Romans 16:17 "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; AND AVOID THEM.
Jaz, I don't know it all, very little in fact when considering the great teacher's I benefit off of and great teacher's I have run across on this site.
But I defend the truth with what little I have.
God bless you my friend.
You are right.
God shall never do contrary to his holiness!
My point exactly.
God bless.
I could not help but point out what you state as some doctrine of man as something sacred is worth dragging in. You write. "Universalism teaches that every human will be saved whether they believe or accept Christ or not." Universalism smells of human sweat and his play on words. Why drag in some one else's leftover as though it merits a debate? God gave you indwelling Spirit since your love for the word no one shall dispute. Be careful how you connect verses in the word of God. In whichever way you make out of various passage the simple yardstick is: God shall never do contrary to his holiness. I know you are intended to fortify yourself with more solid food than milk, so let God work with you more effectively.
The Spirit cites the coming of the messenger in.v.3. "The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight in the desert a highway for our God." We know from the Gospel of John that he recognized Jesus by same Word that marked him before his birth for his ministry. So what does he say, "And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!"( John 1:36). The Spirit in v.9 rounds it off where the exhortation of John did come from. "O Zion, that bringest good tidings, get thee up into the high mountain; O Jerusalem, that bringest good tidings," The Gospel tells how Jesus was pointed out to him from the crowd in a public place. So the Spirit the expression "Behold your God!"is tied up with the Advent of Jesus Christ. Zion is established by God in the 'now' and in heaven. (Is.28:16). Jerusalem claimed by David from Jabusites is the city of David (2 Sam.5:6-10). Jerusalem and Zion founded in heaven is the holy city of God open to all saints. "Gather my saints together unto me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice."(Ps.50:5). In short the first 9 verses refer to his second appearance in mid-air: "Behold, the Lord God will come with strong hand, and his arm shall rule for him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him."(v.10)
It is further supported by v.5. " And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it." "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen."(Re.1:7) All kindreds of the earth is what Isaiah refers to as 'All flesh shall see it together'.
vv.1-2 is pendent on the above. "For she hath received of the Lord's hand double for all her sins." Nevertheless a remnant shall be allowed. Significant is the term" double"- the kingdom is taken away from them. Re.21:25.
The Bible is a big book , we shall not understand every single part of it in this life , it's given to us by God to help us , to help us to grow closer to Him by learning about Him and His ways and His purpose and His promises and His Son . If we are reading it everyday with open hearts and minds then that is what will happen . We will GROW , growth sometimes requires us to change , to change what we think and believe as we keep LEARNING . This is my goal as a Christian , to keep learning and growing , hopefully closet to God through His Living Word . This is enough to keep me busy , if I can help someone else on their Christian journey , I will . This site to me , is part of that . Hopefully . May God bless you and all of us on here as we try to grow ourselves , and help each other to do so .
You stated;
You never say "accept Christ" because the Bible never tells us to accept Him. It does tell us to receive Him. To me, to accept just means to mentally agree with something or someone.
I immediately see what you are saying!
Huge difference!
God bless you.
"To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One."
In order to understand the role of nations let us first understand what God is. "He is omnipresent" so Time is zero. So is space. In short His kingdom which we call as everlasting to everlasting is in the "now". There is no comparison with our earth time. The Spirit has however set the earth time in relation to His nature,- Holiness giving us the Person of Jesus Christ. His earthly ministry makes us relate our nature in step with His nature. We shall illustrate this in terms of our heartbeats We have 60 to 100 while the heartbeats of a blue whale is 1.8 seconds. A rodent say a shrew has 1500 beats per minute. We synchronise our lives on the basis where every terrestrial creature can be set on as single standard accordingly. It is thus the Spirit has set Jesus Christ as the Way because he ascended to heaven and Jesus Christ as the truth since he came from heaven to set an example. It is thus we set Israel as an example which means nothing in terms of heaven. So when Jesus says, "But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up." (Matt.15:13). Without Jesus there is no way a nation can be counted in the sight of God
"Now is the day of Salvation" is in context of the grace brought to the world by Jesus. That ye receive not the grace of God in vain.(2 Co.6:1-2) Nature of God his holiness has been revealed. That which is a quality associated with God mercy or grace is what the tern "now" represents for us. By the same token when Jesus Christ says, "Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom."( Luke 12:32), this is the everlasting kingdom revealed to Daniel in a night vision, "And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away." (Dan.7:14)
"Behold, the days come, that all that is in thine house, and that which thy fathers have laid up in store until this day, shall be carried to Babylon: nothing shall be left, saith the Lord."
These words of Isaiah must have come as a let down to King Hezekiah who having showed showed the glory of his house,- all the war trophies, peace offerings and tributes brought from other nations to his guest, naturally he expected to be complimented. The illustrious names of David and Solomon were 'treasures' indeed. A man born with a silver spoon in his mouth think it is glorious to dine off the golden plate. The king was a show off. Now it fell to the prophet to bring the news of disaster. Before we move on to the topic of nations we need focus on the glory of nations.
What glory sinful men calls is defied in the sight of God. What is the glory of superpowers? The banana wars brought gold into the treasury but what is the mess piling up south of the border? History of nations is a sordid tale of greed and violence and the more glory they seek the deeper they find stuck in mire. The same prophet speak of the glory of Zion instead. It is what the expression" unto this day" in the key verse leads to.
"Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee./The multitude of camels shall cover thee, the dromedaries of Midian and Ephah; all they from Sheba shall come: they shall bring gold and incense; and they shall shew forth the praises of the LORD." (Is.60:5-6) This spiritual kingdom is established by God before the worlds began. It is to which the word of God exhorts us in this exquisite line, "But they that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint."(Is.40: 28-31)
Thank you for those words. I do agree that salvation is offered to all through Christ, but not all will receive Him. Romans 10:8-10 which you have shared is a promise to everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord, that they will, not might, but they will be saved.
But yes, there has to be a response. A person must receive Christ. Please know that I never say "accept Christ" because the Bible never tells us to accept Him. It does tell us to receive Him. To me, to accept just means to mentally agree with something or someone. A person must receive Christ!
As far as there having to be a response from us, did you know that we are saints by calling?
In some of Paul's letters, we see the phrase "called to be saints," and the words "to be" are in italics. It's because the words "to be" were added. We are not called to be saints. We are called saints. It is God who called us, and we simply responded to the call!
And yes, I agree with you on the future restoration of the Jewish/Hebrew people. I believe that when Christ returns, every Jew alive on this earth will then realize that He is their Messiah that they crucified, and they will be saved!
God Bless!!!
Yes, you already answered and stated your position. We came to an agreement and I have moved on and forgotten about because I thought we were done with that conversation. But since you are bringing it back up, please allow me to reshare your exact words to SeanPaul:
You said to him, "You make a good point about people who use these versions not being true Christians and I agree with you for those you have been made to see the truth in this."
Now you are telling me that I "really didn't understand" what you were saying, but your statement was quite clear to me as to what you were agreeing with, or at least what you thought was a "good point."
And no, I did not think that you agreed with someone who said Christians who use bible versions other than the KJB are in sin because that's not what you said. What you seemed to agree with was that these people were not true Christians if they read any other Bible than the KJV.
Please reread your exact words which I have quoted. I'm not sure how else to interpret what you said. If that's not what you meant and you simply made a mistake by telling SeanPaul that he made a good point about those who read different bibles not being true Christians, then that's fine, let's move on!
Blessings!