Thanks, brother, as you said I was just sharing my understanding that many do not agree, only if we, in prayer and study led by the Holy Spirit, can our understanding change. I know this doctrine has existed for 1600 years and to many, it is considered heresy to not agree. I am amazed at how many people have been killed because of it, even during the Reformation.
We can end this; I will only make one reply to Colossians 2:9. Do I deny the deity of Christ? No. Colossians was written about 30 years after Jesus was crucified, God raised Jesus from the sleep of death because death could not hold Him because Jesus was sinless, the man Jesus overcame the law by a perfect life, He fulfilled the law that was written for man that a man had to fulfill.
When God raised Jesus, He placed Him above all that is in Heaven, on earth, and under the earth, Ephesians 1:19-21Philippians 2:9-11. This gave Jesus the full power of God's throne, but this did not happen until Jesus was victorious and resurrected, that is my understanding of Colossians 2:9. To me the word deity that was changed to Godhead is confusing and misleading.
"And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days."
Compare this with the woman in v.14, "And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent."
What separates the gentiles and the Israelites are to be understood by the tags. The crown of twelve stars correspond with the place prepared by God. The usage 'her place' is not what God has chosen for but what she has herself created.
Before we come to it let us settle the matter of 12 and10. The former indicates the Gospel of God and the latter refer to the Law and the Decalogue in particular. Similarly we have the saying of Jesus as to the place prepared by God."In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you."( John 14:2). This place is evidently heavenly places, where she is nourished for a time. The tag of 1260 days corresponds to the duration of the earthly ministry of Jesus. (Re.11:3) Of the many mansions let us say a place of refuge, evocative of the three cities of refuge, (Nu.35:11-28)
As with heavenly Zion and New Jerusalem being preserved in heavenly places we have also similar place for the left out church.
Whereas " a time, times and half time" is associated with Israel. (Dan.12:7; Re.11:2) Daniel would have wanted to know 'the end of these wonders?' but it was not meant for him. Additional clue is the tag of '42' which is more relevant for us, "and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months."(Re.13:5). The same red dragon is mentioned here. Because of God's mercies Israel may find her place, which perhaps could be where she is engaged in an existential war, because she had lost the rights to the lands of Palestine for her manifold sins. This shall change
"Lift up your eyes on high, and behold who hath created these things, that bringeth out their host by number." Numbering stars as with names being written in the book of life are not to be taken literally but owes to His holiness. "To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One." (Is.40: 25-26). Compare this with another passage in the same chapter, "Who hath measured the waters in the hollow of his hand, and meted out heaven with the span, and comprehended the dust of the earth in a measure, and weighed the mountains in scales, and the hills in a balance?" The Kingdom of God and of his dear Son are set in numbers, quantities,- linear or volumetric measurements are determined by the Law or the Word. So this single standard can be determined by the Man, the Word become flesh.
In the Vision the v.5 divides the narrative,- and rapture serves as the turning point for the church. "Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them" (v.12) The cloud of witnesses have reason to rejoice. They are reconciled with saints redeemed from the earth. On the other hand it is woe to ye for the left out church, "inhabitants" as in the verse, "Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."
v.13 marks the great tribulation, of which Jesus also corroborates,"And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."(Matt.24:22). "But for the elect's sake" tells us that rapture comes in series. This has to do with the woman for whom God has prepared a place, And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent."(v.14)
God divided light from darkness so one aspect signified divine nature and other the absence of it. Power and Wisdom of God makes both alike to God who is One. "Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee."(Ps.139:12) The Word was with God. This Law settled the matter. Jesus Christ as the fulfilment of the Law submitted to the divine Will declares,"Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,/I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart."(Ps.40:8-9) God settled for light as indicative of His holiness on the logos principle of the Man. God framed the worlds by his word so one becomes subject to the sovereignty of the Word.( John 1:1; He. 11:3). Second reason the Law was to be demonstrated in the worlds made to appear. "Judgement was set, and books were opened" Consequently would settle the matter of darkness. "And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not."( John 1:5). Those who chose light were recorded in the book of life . Faith accordingly became the touchstone. "Law is within my heart" is doable.
The Law intended to give both light and darkness equal weight in the heavenly places. God a Spirit makes angels spirits and the Holy Spirit records both Sons of God on the Mountain of God until sin undid the glory of one. In Ezekiel we read thus, "thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire./Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee."(Ez.28:14-15) God pronounced judgment on Satan,"therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee."(28:18). This is what happens and Jesus refers to it, "And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven."( Luke 10:18)
If we analyze deeply Scriptures,we will see there is difference between how was the Devil,the old Serpent,in Adam's time,and how he is in this time of Apocalypse.The difference is great.By the way,the new name of the Devil now is red Dragon.
In the time of Adam,the Devil still hadn't 7 HEADS and 10 HORNS, much less his TAIL.It's important detail.
Re.12:3-4->3 another wonder appeared in heaven(heaven? Ephesians 1:3-8);behold a great red dragon,having 7 heads and 10 horns,and 7 crowns upon his 7 heads.
4And his TAIL drew the third part of the stars of heaven("drew to the Dragon's Orbit"),and did cast them to the earth:(through the apostasy)
Satan's body started to develop or take shape in the first century of the Church.As time went on(centuries),Satan's body was growing more and more in the WORLD;in Asia,and Europe,frica,Oceania (Australia),North America,Central America and South America,his 7 heads geographically
At the same time, the spirit of antichrist grew within the Churches of the Lord,as is written in 1John 2:18-20,mainly in the Church of Rome,actually the cradle of Antichrist.From there the TAIL of the red Dragon started to growth in the environment of the 7 heads of the Dragon,i.e. in the world at that time
Around 95AD,1st century,the Beast of sea was in the embryo in the belly of the apostate Church of Rome,through Church Satan developed exceedingly his satanic body having 7 heads.John saw that in this current time of Apocalypse,the body of the Beast of sea,whose roots is described in Revelaton 13:2,was complete,having 7 heads,10 horns,and upon his 10 horns 10 crowns, and upon his 7 heads the name of blasphemy
Furthermore,Israel was banned from their land from 70 to 1948AD,i.e. during 1878 years,this terrible event prevented the manifestation of the false messiah before the current time of Revelation, the development of the 10 horns stayed in stand by until this current time.This last event will happen from now on
Matthew 12:23 - And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?
Now, the phrase "son of David" is another phrase for the Messiah, the son of David. But in the Greek text, the negative participle that is used means that the question is expecting the answer no. This is not the son of David, is it?
What they are saying is that He's doing all the things that Messiah is supposed to do when He comes, but it can't be Him!
Matthew 12:30 - He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
Two things I want to share with you about the Greek. Do you see the word "is," the third word in the verse? That's actually a Present Participle, and it denotes continuous action. He that is not continually with me is against me. And he that is not continually gathering with me is scattering. So, in other words if you are not continuously gathering together and following Christ, Jesus said you are against me.
There's no gray area and no middle ground! Jesus said you are either following me or you are against me. He didn't say you have to reject me to be against me. Jesus said, if you're not following me, you are against me.
Matthew 12:40 - For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
He says the only sign that you're to receive is the sign of Jonah, for as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, and it is not a whale. The Greek word means a great fish. And they have found down through history, large fish from this area with parts of human beings inside, so it is possible. But this was a miracle. A great fish swallowed Jonah and spit him up on the shores of Nineveh.
I am going to stop here for the night. I will try and pick back up tomorrow.
Matthew 8:26 - And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm.
Jesus gets up and He rebukes. He says to them, why are ye fearful? The word fearful in Greek is not the word for fear. It's a word that means to be without courage. This could be better translated, "Why are you without courage, O little faith ones?"
Matthew 9:17 - Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.
The word bottle is the word skins. These are not bottles that we know.
Matthew 9:32 - As they went out, behold, they brought to him a dumb man possessed with a devil.
When He went out, they brought to him a dumb man (somebody who couldn't speak). The Greek word would be translated MUTE. His condition was that he was demonized. He was mute because of the demon.
Matthew 10:16 - Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
The word "harmless" in the Greek means artless. It literally means don't use your own ingenuity. In other words, God is not impressed when we use our ideas to do His work. Be wise as serpents. How is the serpent wise? Well, he is very alert and he watches and doesn't make quick reactions. We are to observe and be artless as doves. Jesus said that's the kind of person I will use.
Matthew 12:20 - A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory.
These are long stemmed reeds that are hollow on the inside, and they break really easy. So, when Jesus comes upon somebody that has a very frail weak condition like one of these weeds, He's not going to break them. He is going to help them.
A smoking flax is a wick of a lamp that is smoldering, but it's not lit.
Matthew 8:16 - When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick:
It says when evening had come, and the other gospel writers tell us that this was the Sabbath when Peter's mother-in-law was healed. So, at six o'clock, at sundown, they brought many who were possessed with devils.
The condition: Those three words "possessed with devils," are represented by one Greek word. In fact, never in the Greek text does it say demon possession. It just says "demonized." It is just one word, demonized.
Matthew 8:17 - That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.
This, you may already know. But in the King James text, and we see this in Chapter 1 with what we call the ancestry line, the lineage, in that the King James text, when it mentions names, it's a transliteration of the Greek word. For instance, in Matthew Chapter 1, it talks about Tamar. King James says Thamar and that is because that is the Greek word, Thamar. And so, when it's making reference to Isaiah, he says Esaias because that is the Greek word, but he is talking about Isaiah the prophet. Just general information!
Matthew 8:24 - And, behold, there arose a great tempest in the sea, insomuch that the ship was covered with the waves: but he was asleep.
Here's something we may not catch in our English text:
Here are the circumstances. They got in the boat, and there arose a great "tempest" in the sea. The word tempest is the Greek word SEISMOS. It's where our English word seismic comes from. What this text is telling us is that there was a great earthquake in the sea, so much that the ship was covered with the waves. It wasn't just raining and the boat filling up.
Reading this in English, we see "great tempest" and big waves, but we don't realize that an earthquake was the cause!
Matthew 8:5 - And when Jesus was entered into Capernaum, there came unto him a centurion, beseeching him,
Notice the person that's coming. He is a centurion. A centurion is a Roman soldier. He is a Gentile. The word centurion means 100. He is the commander of 100 men. And the centurion is in charge of the garrison of Roman soldiers there in Capernaum. Just general information I wanted to share.
Matthew 8:6 - And saying, Lord, my servant lieth at home sick of the palsy, grievously tormented.
This phrase "sick of the palsy" is one Greek word (PARALUTIKOS) which means paralytic. This is the condition of his servant. So, this centurion comes, beseeching him, and saying that his servant lies home sick of the palsy. He is a paralytic. He's paralyzed and he's grievously tormented. This is where I believe the translators could have given us a better understanding in their translation by saying, "my servant lieth at home paralyzed, grievously tormented. I am not saying that the translation is wrong, but I'll leave it up to you to decide whether saying "sick of the palsy" or "paralyzed" would mean more to us in our English text.
Matthew 8:15 - And he touched her hand, and the fever left her: and she arose, and ministered unto them.
Here we see the completeness. Jesus touched her, and the fever left her. Notice the completeness in that the fever left her. He touched her hand, the fever left her, and she rose up and ministered unto Him.
Here is something you may not catch without going to the Greek text. The word ministered in Greek, DIAKANOS, is the verb form of our English word deacon. It is the verb form; therefore, it is not calling her a deacon. But it's describing her serving. And it's in the Imperfect Tense which means that she rose up immediately and the fever was gone.
Matthew 6:34 - Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
Take no thought! Again, the word MERIMNAO, the occupation of the attention of our minds? Jesus says don't even worry about it. Don't worry about tomorrow. Let tomorrow take care of itself. Where is our focus right now?
Matthew 7:24 - Therefore, whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
About the word "rock" in this verse, we see the word rock throughout our English Bible, and we know what a rock is, right? But here's something we might not catch without the Greek. Rock used here is the word PETRA. It's the same thing that Jesus told Peter in Matthew Chapter 16 where He says, "Upon this rock (PETRA) I will build my church."
I mention this because there are groups that say this is referring to Peter, that the church is built upon Peter. It wasn't Peter! Peter is PETROS. PETRA is a completely different word. It is the designation for Christ and His word in scripture. Jesus says that everybody that hears these saying of mine and does them will be like a wise man that built his house upon a rock (PETRA) and when the storm comes (which is judgment), his house will stand.
Matthew 7:28 - And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:
Where is says "the people were astonished," this would be the multitudes that began to follow Jesus at the end of Chapter 4. They are the same people that were going to be astonished here at the end of Chapter 7. These are the multitudes that were listening, not the disciples.
Secondly, the word astonished is in the Imperfect Tense in the Greek, which means that it was a continuous past action. They were continually amazed!
Matthew 6:1 - Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
Here it says to "Take heed," which literally means pay attention. Pay attention that you do not your alms, and the Greek word for alms means acts of mercy. Some transcripts have righteousness.
Matthew 6:9 - After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Here's where the Greek enhances the meaning of this verse. Hallowed means sanctify or set apart. Set apart your name in my life today. May your name be glorified and may all that the people see in my life today is your name. May it be represented correctly!
Matthew 6:25 - Therefore I say unto you, take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
Jesus says, "take no thought for your life." This comes from the Greek word MERIMNAO. If you've never heard that word before, it means to occupy the attention of the mind. If we connect this with what the bible teaches, and we take the phrase "take no thought" understanding that it means to occupy the attention of the mind, it shows us that we only have the capacity to serve one thing. So, if our minds are occupied with other things, and we are only supposed to be serving the one person (Christ), we have a problem! In Matthew 6:25-30, Jesus goes on to say, and He mentions three necessities. He says why are you anxious about what you eat, or what you drink, or about your clothing? He says that even if you don't have clothes or food or drink, that we are not to be occupied with it, (MERIMNA).
Matthew 6:27 - Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?
Again, the word for "taking thought" is MERIMNA, worries and cares that are occupying the attention of our minds.
As far as I know, I have no German ancestry. I am not German. The word Commandant is also used in the US Military. For instance, in the Marine Corp, their highest ranking officer is called the Commandant of the Marine Corp. The Air Force Academy also has a Commandant. The same for West Point.
I have no guess as to what you're getting at on the spelling of the name Jesse. Most males (as myself) they spell it Jesse. For females, it is usually spelled Jessie.
Brother Jesse what I find interesting is as you stated "Jesus the representative of God's love.
That love was displayed on the cross.
If it was a way that Christ would have gave in to Satan when Satan offered Jesus the kingdoms of the world, The unchangeable attribute of God towards the world would have not been displayed or represented on the cross.
There would be no cross.
Also all the sacrifices in the OT that foreshadowed Christ would have been for nothing.
Thank God that his attributes doesn't change and his representation of those attributes doesn't change.
To begin with, there is no evidence that Paul wrote Hebrews. In fact, Hebrews 2:3 would indicate that it probably was not Paul. I can explain that if you wish. We are not told who wrote the book of Hebrews.
But to answer your question, we see Aaron mentioned, and we also see Melchisedec mentioned. But in both Hebrews Chapters 5 and 6, the writer giving us the superiority of Jesus Christ to Aaron.
The writer of Hebrews at the beginning is making a comparison and contrast between Christ and all of the people that the Jews and Hebrews hold to be "special" within the religious system.
Aaron was a family in the tribe of Levi. There were 12 tribes, and you probably know that God commanded that the tribe of Levi, and only the tribe of Levi, should serve in the temple. They are the only ones to serve as priests, and singers, and the attendance in the temple. But specifically, within the tribe of Levi was the family of Aaron. Only those from the family of Aaron directly could serve as high priest.
So, if you wanted to become a priest, if you were not from the tribe of Levi you could not become a priest. And you definitely could not become a high priest unless you were from the family of Aaron.
So, the writer of Hebrews is going to make a contrast between the superiority of Jesus Christ and Aaron, the Aaronic priesthood and the priesthood of Christ.
Sorry if this is not the answer you're looking for, but without knowing why you are asking me this, I'm just left guessing!
Thanks, brother, I agree God knew all before it ever was and he knew Adam would do what he did, it was part of God's plan the same as Jesus was in His plan, but the sentence of surely die meaning die die was not put on mankind until Adam was disobedient and the sin nature entered him, remember Jesus was manifested to undo the works of the devil.
Thanks for sharing your understanding. We do disagree on this one. You mention John 3:34-35 which are very important verses. Literally, that second part of Verse 34 is that God has poured out His Spirit in its fullness upon Christ. He is all God! So, the principle is that He's the only one that has and speaks the words of God. In Colossians 2:9, Paul tells us that in Jesus is all of the Godhead in bodily form, everything there is of God and bodily form! God did not pour out His Spirit by measure but rather in His fullness. In order for me to believe that Jesus could have sinned, I would have to deny His deity. I would have to deny that He is God.
Now, in John 12:49-50 which you gave, I do agree that Jesus is saying these aren't my words. These are the Father's words. And the last half of Verse 50, Jesus says, "whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak." Exact words! Not independent, not on His own, but they are the Father's words. When Jesus came, He didn't represent Himself. He represented God.
I'm sorry, but I do have to disagree with you on "why Jesus's name is called the Word of God." He was not called the word of God because He spoke God's word. There is no correlation between John 3:34-35 and Revelation 19:13.
The word "word" in Revelation 19:13 is the word LOGOS. It is the same word used in John 1:1, and also throughout the beginning of Chapter 1. LOGOS is the Greek word for the word "word." Jesus is called the word because He was the great thinker behind the universe and was already in existence at the time of physical creation. He was always in existence. He was the great thinker behind the universe, and He created all things.
Here's what I meant to say midway through on my previous message.
You asked;
If the first Adam was created with a sinful nature could God say He saw everything was good?
Yes Ronald, Absolutely. He made Adam just the way he planned to make him, and Adam did exactly what was expected. Christ wasn't a afterthought. God knew Adam would sin before he made him.
You said, "Temptation or testing is for an answer to whether someone will be obedient or disobedient,
Ronald here's a silly illustration. When a salesman at a car dealership let's you test drive a car, is he testing to see if the car is obedient? No. He's proving the car is what he say it is.
That's why the Spirit led Jesus into the wilderness to show Jesus is who the father said he was in the previous verse.
Here's how it's read straight through.
And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. Matthew 3:17 - Matthew 4:1.
You asked, How can one be obedient if they cannot be disobedient?
That would be a good question for you and I.
We have a rebellious nature.
Disobedience is our fleshly nature. That's not so with Christ.
If you have to resist sin, you have a sinful nature. That's not so with Christ.
You asked;
If the first Adam was created with a sinful nature could God say He saw everything.
Yes Ronald, Absolutely. He made Adam just the way he planned to make him, and Adam did exactly what was expected. Christ wasn't a afterthought. God knew Adam would sin before he made him.
That is the long answers I have for you Ronald.
Again, My short answer is, Jesus is God and God cannot sin.
Thanks Brother Ronald,
We both know we don't agree on this.
I just thought it was necessary to give my thoughts.
Thanks for the reply. I will say again, I was not necessarily addressing you directly because if I was I would have messaged my reply to you, not Sean Paul. My point was that, just as you might use "whatever" there are many more words or phrases commonly used in our society today that can be used sinfully and we need to be careful of not only our speech but also be sure our intent is not sinful. That is my main point of what I said to Sean Paul. Have a good evening. I think we can exit this discussion now. God bless.
Thank you, brother, I know we have discussed it before and I think we both respect and care for each other as brothers. I will try not to rehash that discussion forgive me if there is some overlap, but could Christ have sinned your answer is no, I will just use this verse James 1:13, your answer, according to this verse He could not even have been tempted but Jesus was tempted or tested and Jesus stayed obedient to the Father. Temptation or testing is for an answer to whether someone will be obedient or disobedient, Romans 5:19.
1 Timothy 3:16 the word manifest is the Greek word phanero meaning to make visible, make clear. Jesus did that. In the flesh, I ask when did this happen? Did this happen when Mary conceived or when Jesus was anointed with the Holy Ghost and became the Messiah/Christ?
Hebrews 1:1-3 God spoke to us by His Son every word Jesus said was the word of God, not His. Jesus shunned Philip when he asked Jesus to show them the Father, John 14:9-10, every word Jesus said was the Father.
As I have said when God placed Adam in the garden he did not have a sinful nature but he sinned and was disobedient. Jesus was not conceived by man but by the Holy Ghost, Jesus did not have the sinful nature past down by the first Adam, but He was obedient and did not sin.
I did not say anything about the cross but after Jesus prayed in the garden asking the Father if there was any other way Jesus was obedient to the end, being beaten, nailed to the cross, and giving His life for us.
If the first Adam was created with a sinful nature could God say He saw everything He had made, and it was very good? This sinful nature has a sentence of death, and it was after Adam ate the fruit that it was applied, and it spread to all. Adam was the figure of him that was to come, Jesus, the last Adam who by His obedience we have hope. How can one be obedient if they cannot be disobedient? To say Jesus was sinless and obedient becomes a farce.
Seven heads of the red dragon indicate what this verse signifies, " Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire."(Ps.104:4). God created angels by his breath. " By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent."( Job 26:13). So the Spirit gives the command number Seven a seat in heaven which is tagged as powers, principalities as St Pauls says, "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."(Ep.6:12)
The tail of the red dragon represents heresies with which one the third of the stars shall be cast off into the earth. "The ancient and honourable, he is the head; and the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail./ For the leaders of this people cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed."(Is.9:15-16)
"And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads./And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth"
Both wonders occur in heaven. This is clearly based on the everlasting covenant." And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness." (Ge.1:4) So both wonders are separated only after the Spirit of God moved on the face of the waters. Darkness which was upon the deep showed resistance knowledge of the holy. When God sends Jesus Christ the true Light into the world this rebelliousness in spirit was obvious. John 1:4-5 sums up the quality of the children of darkness. "In him (Jesus Christ) was life; and the life was the light of men./And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not." This also shall explain predestination is tied to the bedrock of the Word. Either you believed and made the seed sown in your heart grow or rejected it. "Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up."(Matt.15:13)
The red dragon is not the serpent but the body of the children of wrath.
The two wonders signify two nations namely children of light and children of wrath. Respectively their crowns indicate their origin.
The twelve stars indicate the Gospel of God working on the woman; meanwhile ten horns stamp the red dragon as a creature of the Law. "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin."(Ro.3:20; Gal.2:16) The beast's authority came from this dragon. "having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy."(Re.13:1). This demagogue is backed by sons of perdition and this spirit of disobedience is evident in our own times. His ten crowns signify the knowledge of sin. Seven heads of the red dragon indicate
Matthe 4:1. "Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
Here's my understanding.
In Matthew 3 we see Jesus being baptized by John the baptist.
Then, in verse 17it reads, "And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased"
That brings us to Chapter 4 where we see the tempting of Satan in which the word for tempted is "peiraz" which means to to test (objectively) that is endeavor 6
scrutinize entice discipline: - assay examine go about to prove.
( Matthew 4:1-11)
Verse 1 says it was the Spirit which led Jesus up into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
What is Important to note in this section is that the DEVIL WASN'T BEING USED TO TEST TO SEE IF JESUS WAS THE SON OF GOD. HE KNEW JESUS WAS THE SON OF GOD!
In verse 3 where it says "if thou be the Son of God"
It should read "And when the tempter came to him, he said, "SINCE" thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
Again, It was the Spirit that led Jesus into the wilderness to EXHIBIT this truth that was declared in Matthew 3:17.
That's my understanding on Christ being tempted.
Also; There is nowhere in scripture that says Christ had a inherited sin nature. .
I don't hold the view that Adam was created "Without" a sin nature. Adam was made a living soul;
Christ was made a Life giving spirit. Neither had to become that or hold on to it. Adam sinned and it proved he had that in him.
Christ proved he didn't.
HERE'S HOW THEY CONTRAST; "Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual
The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
1 Corinthians 15:46-47.
Christ was ordained to be the Lamb that takes away the sins of the whole world before the world began! He didn't have to qualify.
our Savior our priest and the only mediator between us, and God was tempted as we are tempted, would not this temptation only be valid if he could succumb to temptation and was able to sin?
As you said,
I know we have discussed this in the past and yes we know each other stance on this.
However, let me share my understanding on this from what I have gathered and some from this very site.
When dealing with whether Christ could have sinned, the short answer is no He's God. I know we don't agree on that so no need for a debate there.
Now, one would ask "how could God (IN THE FLESH) be tempted? That's who Christ was here on earth. God in the flesh. 1 Timothy 3:16.
You referenced Hebrews 4:15. It reads "For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
This doesn't say Jesus was tempted to sin as if he had a sin nature inherited from Adam.
The word tested here is "peiraz" which is to test (objectively) that is endeavor, scrutinize entice discipline: - assay examine go about to prove.
Christ was tested while in the flesh and "can be touched with the feeling of our infirmities;
This doesn't mean he is fighting back the urge to sin! It means he's being enticed but yet his testing was to prove him.
You see an example of the word temptation being used this way in James 1:12. The word here is peirasmos. It means putting to proof (by experiment [of good] experience [of evil] solicitation discipline or provocation); by implication adversity: - temptation.
Also;
The mocking Christ on the cross was not a test. He was where he wanted to be and doing what he came to do.
They had no power over him and the nails didn't hold him to that cross, love did.
Feel free.
Thanks, brother, as you said I was just sharing my understanding that many do not agree, only if we, in prayer and study led by the Holy Spirit, can our understanding change. I know this doctrine has existed for 1600 years and to many, it is considered heresy to not agree. I am amazed at how many people have been killed because of it, even during the Reformation.
We can end this; I will only make one reply to Colossians 2:9. Do I deny the deity of Christ? No. Colossians was written about 30 years after Jesus was crucified, God raised Jesus from the sleep of death because death could not hold Him because Jesus was sinless, the man Jesus overcame the law by a perfect life, He fulfilled the law that was written for man that a man had to fulfill.
When God raised Jesus, He placed Him above all that is in Heaven, on earth, and under the earth, Ephesians 1:19-21 Philippians 2:9-11. This gave Jesus the full power of God's throne, but this did not happen until Jesus was victorious and resurrected, that is my understanding of Colossians 2:9. To me the word deity that was changed to Godhead is confusing and misleading.
Thanks for your discussion brother.
God bless,
RLW
"And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days."
Compare this with the woman in v.14, "And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent."
What separates the gentiles and the Israelites are to be understood by the tags. The crown of twelve stars correspond with the place prepared by God. The usage 'her place' is not what God has chosen for but what she has herself created.
Before we come to it let us settle the matter of 12 and10. The former indicates the Gospel of God and the latter refer to the Law and the Decalogue in particular. Similarly we have the saying of Jesus as to the place prepared by God."In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you."( John 14:2). This place is evidently heavenly places, where she is nourished for a time. The tag of 1260 days corresponds to the duration of the earthly ministry of Jesus. (Re.11:3) Of the many mansions let us say a place of refuge, evocative of the three cities of refuge, (Nu.35:11-28)
As with heavenly Zion and New Jerusalem being preserved in heavenly places we have also similar place for the left out church.
Whereas " a time, times and half time" is associated with Israel. (Dan.12:7; Re.11:2) Daniel would have wanted to know 'the end of these wonders?' but it was not meant for him. Additional clue is the tag of '42' which is more relevant for us, "and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months."(Re.13:5). The same red dragon is mentioned here. Because of God's mercies Israel may find her place, which perhaps could be where she is engaged in an existential war, because she had lost the rights to the lands of Palestine for her manifold sins. This shall change
"Lift up your eyes on high, and behold who hath created these things, that bringeth out their host by number." Numbering stars as with names being written in the book of life are not to be taken literally but owes to His holiness. "To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One." (Is.40: 25-26). Compare this with another passage in the same chapter, "Who hath measured the waters in the hollow of his hand, and meted out heaven with the span, and comprehended the dust of the earth in a measure, and weighed the mountains in scales, and the hills in a balance?" The Kingdom of God and of his dear Son are set in numbers, quantities,- linear or volumetric measurements are determined by the Law or the Word. So this single standard can be determined by the Man, the Word become flesh.
In the Vision the v.5 divides the narrative,- and rapture serves as the turning point for the church. "Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them" (v.12) The cloud of witnesses have reason to rejoice. They are reconciled with saints redeemed from the earth. On the other hand it is woe to ye for the left out church, "inhabitants" as in the verse, "Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."
v.13 marks the great tribulation, of which Jesus also corroborates,"And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."(Matt.24:22). "But for the elect's sake" tells us that rapture comes in series. This has to do with the woman for whom God has prepared a place, And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent."(v.14)
"Two wings of a great eagle" Ps.91:1;Ex.19:4
God divided light from darkness so one aspect signified divine nature and other the absence of it. Power and Wisdom of God makes both alike to God who is One. "Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee."(Ps.139:12) The Word was with God. This Law settled the matter. Jesus Christ as the fulfilment of the Law submitted to the divine Will declares,"Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,/I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart."(Ps.40:8-9) God settled for light as indicative of His holiness on the logos principle of the Man. God framed the worlds by his word so one becomes subject to the sovereignty of the Word.( John 1:1; He. 11:3). Second reason the Law was to be demonstrated in the worlds made to appear. "Judgement was set, and books were opened" Consequently would settle the matter of darkness. "And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not."( John 1:5). Those who chose light were recorded in the book of life . Faith accordingly became the touchstone. "Law is within my heart" is doable.
The Law intended to give both light and darkness equal weight in the heavenly places. God a Spirit makes angels spirits and the Holy Spirit records both Sons of God on the Mountain of God until sin undid the glory of one. In Ezekiel we read thus, "thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire./Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee."(Ez.28:14-15) God pronounced judgment on Satan,"therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee."(28:18). This is what happens and Jesus refers to it, "And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven."( Luke 10:18)
I will pass it.
Red Dragon
If we analyze deeply Scriptures,we will see there is difference between how was the Devil,the old Serpent,in Adam's time,and how he is in this time of Apocalypse.The difference is great.By the way,the new name of the Devil now is red Dragon.
In the time of Adam,the Devil still hadn't 7 HEADS and 10 HORNS, much less his TAIL.It's important detail.
Re.12:3-4->3 another wonder appeared in heaven(heaven? Ephesians 1:3-8);behold a great red dragon,having 7 heads and 10 horns,and 7 crowns upon his 7 heads.
4And his TAIL drew the third part of the stars of heaven("drew to the Dragon's Orbit"),and did cast them to the earth:(through the apostasy)
Satan's body started to develop or take shape in the first century of the Church.As time went on(centuries),Satan's body was growing more and more in the WORLD;in Asia,and Europe,frica,Oceania (Australia),North America,Central America and South America,his 7 heads geographically
At the same time, the spirit of antichrist grew within the Churches of the Lord,as is written in 1John 2:18-20,mainly in the Church of Rome,actually the cradle of Antichrist.From there the TAIL of the red Dragon started to growth in the environment of the 7 heads of the Dragon,i.e. in the world at that time
Around 95AD,1st century,the Beast of sea was in the embryo in the belly of the apostate Church of Rome,through Church Satan developed exceedingly his satanic body having 7 heads.John saw that in this current time of Apocalypse,the body of the Beast of sea,whose roots is described in Revelaton 13:2,was complete,having 7 heads,10 horns,and upon his 10 horns 10 crowns, and upon his 7 heads the name of blasphemy
Furthermore,Israel was banned from their land from 70 to 1948AD,i.e. during 1878 years,this terrible event prevented the manifestation of the false messiah before the current time of Revelation, the development of the 10 horns stayed in stand by until this current time.This last event will happen from now on
Get ready
I'm not sure if a continuation of this discussion will change either of our minds, so I'll leave it up to you if you want to continue!
May the Lord bless you always!
Matthew 12:23 - And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?
Now, the phrase "son of David" is another phrase for the Messiah, the son of David. But in the Greek text, the negative participle that is used means that the question is expecting the answer no. This is not the son of David, is it?
What they are saying is that He's doing all the things that Messiah is supposed to do when He comes, but it can't be Him!
Matthew 12:30 - He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
Two things I want to share with you about the Greek. Do you see the word "is," the third word in the verse? That's actually a Present Participle, and it denotes continuous action. He that is not continually with me is against me. And he that is not continually gathering with me is scattering. So, in other words if you are not continuously gathering together and following Christ, Jesus said you are against me.
There's no gray area and no middle ground! Jesus said you are either following me or you are against me. He didn't say you have to reject me to be against me. Jesus said, if you're not following me, you are against me.
Matthew 12:40 - For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
He says the only sign that you're to receive is the sign of Jonah, for as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, and it is not a whale. The Greek word means a great fish. And they have found down through history, large fish from this area with parts of human beings inside, so it is possible. But this was a miracle. A great fish swallowed Jonah and spit him up on the shores of Nineveh.
I am going to stop here for the night. I will try and pick back up tomorrow.
Blessings to you all in Christ our Savior!
Matthew 8:26 - And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm.
Jesus gets up and He rebukes. He says to them, why are ye fearful? The word fearful in Greek is not the word for fear. It's a word that means to be without courage. This could be better translated, "Why are you without courage, O little faith ones?"
Matthew 9:17 - Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.
The word bottle is the word skins. These are not bottles that we know.
Matthew 9:32 - As they went out, behold, they brought to him a dumb man possessed with a devil.
When He went out, they brought to him a dumb man (somebody who couldn't speak). The Greek word would be translated MUTE. His condition was that he was demonized. He was mute because of the demon.
Matthew 10:16 - Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
The word "harmless" in the Greek means artless. It literally means don't use your own ingenuity. In other words, God is not impressed when we use our ideas to do His work. Be wise as serpents. How is the serpent wise? Well, he is very alert and he watches and doesn't make quick reactions. We are to observe and be artless as doves. Jesus said that's the kind of person I will use.
Matthew 12:20 - A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory.
These are long stemmed reeds that are hollow on the inside, and they break really easy. So, when Jesus comes upon somebody that has a very frail weak condition like one of these weeds, He's not going to break them. He is going to help them.
A smoking flax is a wick of a lamp that is smoldering, but it's not lit.
Matthew 8:16 - When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick:
It says when evening had come, and the other gospel writers tell us that this was the Sabbath when Peter's mother-in-law was healed. So, at six o'clock, at sundown, they brought many who were possessed with devils.
The condition: Those three words "possessed with devils," are represented by one Greek word. In fact, never in the Greek text does it say demon possession. It just says "demonized." It is just one word, demonized.
Matthew 8:17 - That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.
This, you may already know. But in the King James text, and we see this in Chapter 1 with what we call the ancestry line, the lineage, in that the King James text, when it mentions names, it's a transliteration of the Greek word. For instance, in Matthew Chapter 1, it talks about Tamar. King James says Thamar and that is because that is the Greek word, Thamar. And so, when it's making reference to Isaiah, he says Esaias because that is the Greek word, but he is talking about Isaiah the prophet. Just general information!
Matthew 8:24 - And, behold, there arose a great tempest in the sea, insomuch that the ship was covered with the waves: but he was asleep.
Here's something we may not catch in our English text:
Here are the circumstances. They got in the boat, and there arose a great "tempest" in the sea. The word tempest is the Greek word SEISMOS. It's where our English word seismic comes from. What this text is telling us is that there was a great earthquake in the sea, so much that the ship was covered with the waves. It wasn't just raining and the boat filling up.
Reading this in English, we see "great tempest" and big waves, but we don't realize that an earthquake was the cause!
Matthew 8:5 - And when Jesus was entered into Capernaum, there came unto him a centurion, beseeching him,
Notice the person that's coming. He is a centurion. A centurion is a Roman soldier. He is a Gentile. The word centurion means 100. He is the commander of 100 men. And the centurion is in charge of the garrison of Roman soldiers there in Capernaum. Just general information I wanted to share.
Matthew 8:6 - And saying, Lord, my servant lieth at home sick of the palsy, grievously tormented.
This phrase "sick of the palsy" is one Greek word (PARALUTIKOS) which means paralytic. This is the condition of his servant. So, this centurion comes, beseeching him, and saying that his servant lies home sick of the palsy. He is a paralytic. He's paralyzed and he's grievously tormented. This is where I believe the translators could have given us a better understanding in their translation by saying, "my servant lieth at home paralyzed, grievously tormented. I am not saying that the translation is wrong, but I'll leave it up to you to decide whether saying "sick of the palsy" or "paralyzed" would mean more to us in our English text.
Matthew 8:15 - And he touched her hand, and the fever left her: and she arose, and ministered unto them.
Here we see the completeness. Jesus touched her, and the fever left her. Notice the completeness in that the fever left her. He touched her hand, the fever left her, and she rose up and ministered unto Him.
Here is something you may not catch without going to the Greek text. The word ministered in Greek, DIAKANOS, is the verb form of our English word deacon. It is the verb form; therefore, it is not calling her a deacon. But it's describing her serving. And it's in the Imperfect Tense which means that she rose up immediately and the fever was gone.
Matthew 6:34 - Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
Take no thought! Again, the word MERIMNAO, the occupation of the attention of our minds? Jesus says don't even worry about it. Don't worry about tomorrow. Let tomorrow take care of itself. Where is our focus right now?
Matthew 7:24 - Therefore, whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
About the word "rock" in this verse, we see the word rock throughout our English Bible, and we know what a rock is, right? But here's something we might not catch without the Greek. Rock used here is the word PETRA. It's the same thing that Jesus told Peter in Matthew Chapter 16 where He says, "Upon this rock (PETRA) I will build my church."
I mention this because there are groups that say this is referring to Peter, that the church is built upon Peter. It wasn't Peter! Peter is PETROS. PETRA is a completely different word. It is the designation for Christ and His word in scripture. Jesus says that everybody that hears these saying of mine and does them will be like a wise man that built his house upon a rock (PETRA) and when the storm comes (which is judgment), his house will stand.
Matthew 7:28 - And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:
Where is says "the people were astonished," this would be the multitudes that began to follow Jesus at the end of Chapter 4. They are the same people that were going to be astonished here at the end of Chapter 7. These are the multitudes that were listening, not the disciples.
Secondly, the word astonished is in the Imperfect Tense in the Greek, which means that it was a continuous past action. They were continually amazed!
Continuation in Matthew, (Part 8):
Matthew 6:1 - Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
Here it says to "Take heed," which literally means pay attention. Pay attention that you do not your alms, and the Greek word for alms means acts of mercy. Some transcripts have righteousness.
Matthew 6:9 - After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Here's where the Greek enhances the meaning of this verse. Hallowed means sanctify or set apart. Set apart your name in my life today. May your name be glorified and may all that the people see in my life today is your name. May it be represented correctly!
Matthew 6:25 - Therefore I say unto you, take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
Jesus says, "take no thought for your life." This comes from the Greek word MERIMNAO. If you've never heard that word before, it means to occupy the attention of the mind. If we connect this with what the bible teaches, and we take the phrase "take no thought" understanding that it means to occupy the attention of the mind, it shows us that we only have the capacity to serve one thing. So, if our minds are occupied with other things, and we are only supposed to be serving the one person (Christ), we have a problem! In Matthew 6:25-30, Jesus goes on to say, and He mentions three necessities. He says why are you anxious about what you eat, or what you drink, or about your clothing? He says that even if you don't have clothes or food or drink, that we are not to be occupied with it, (MERIMNA).
Matthew 6:27 - Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?
Again, the word for "taking thought" is MERIMNA, worries and cares that are occupying the attention of our minds.
As far as I know, I have no German ancestry. I am not German. The word Commandant is also used in the US Military. For instance, in the Marine Corp, their highest ranking officer is called the Commandant of the Marine Corp. The Air Force Academy also has a Commandant. The same for West Point.
I have no guess as to what you're getting at on the spelling of the name Jesse. Most males (as myself) they spell it Jesse. For females, it is usually spelled Jessie.
Blessings to you also!
That love was displayed on the cross.
If it was a way that Christ would have gave in to Satan when Satan offered Jesus the kingdoms of the world, The unchangeable attribute of God towards the world would have not been displayed or represented on the cross.
There would be no cross.
Also all the sacrifices in the OT that foreshadowed Christ would have been for nothing.
Thank God that his attributes doesn't change and his representation of those attributes doesn't change.
God bless.
Thank you, brother, for your reply I understand we may not agree but if you want to discuss it, I will get back to you tomorrow it is late.
To begin with, there is no evidence that Paul wrote Hebrews. In fact, Hebrews 2:3 would indicate that it probably was not Paul. I can explain that if you wish. We are not told who wrote the book of Hebrews.
But to answer your question, we see Aaron mentioned, and we also see Melchisedec mentioned. But in both Hebrews Chapters 5 and 6, the writer giving us the superiority of Jesus Christ to Aaron.
The writer of Hebrews at the beginning is making a comparison and contrast between Christ and all of the people that the Jews and Hebrews hold to be "special" within the religious system.
Aaron was a family in the tribe of Levi. There were 12 tribes, and you probably know that God commanded that the tribe of Levi, and only the tribe of Levi, should serve in the temple. They are the only ones to serve as priests, and singers, and the attendance in the temple. But specifically, within the tribe of Levi was the family of Aaron. Only those from the family of Aaron directly could serve as high priest.
So, if you wanted to become a priest, if you were not from the tribe of Levi you could not become a priest. And you definitely could not become a high priest unless you were from the family of Aaron.
So, the writer of Hebrews is going to make a contrast between the superiority of Jesus Christ and Aaron, the Aaronic priesthood and the priesthood of Christ.
Sorry if this is not the answer you're looking for, but without knowing why you are asking me this, I'm just left guessing!
Blessings!
Thanks, brother, I agree God knew all before it ever was and he knew Adam would do what he did, it was part of God's plan the same as Jesus was in His plan, but the sentence of surely die meaning die die was not put on mankind until Adam was disobedient and the sin nature entered him, remember Jesus was manifested to undo the works of the devil.
God bless,
RLW
Thanks for sharing your understanding. We do disagree on this one. You mention John 3:34-35 which are very important verses. Literally, that second part of Verse 34 is that God has poured out His Spirit in its fullness upon Christ. He is all God! So, the principle is that He's the only one that has and speaks the words of God. In Colossians 2:9, Paul tells us that in Jesus is all of the Godhead in bodily form, everything there is of God and bodily form! God did not pour out His Spirit by measure but rather in His fullness. In order for me to believe that Jesus could have sinned, I would have to deny His deity. I would have to deny that He is God.
Now, in John 12:49-50 which you gave, I do agree that Jesus is saying these aren't my words. These are the Father's words. And the last half of Verse 50, Jesus says, "whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak." Exact words! Not independent, not on His own, but they are the Father's words. When Jesus came, He didn't represent Himself. He represented God.
I'm sorry, but I do have to disagree with you on "why Jesus's name is called the Word of God." He was not called the word of God because He spoke God's word. There is no correlation between John 3:34-35 and Revelation 19:13.
The word "word" in Revelation 19:13 is the word LOGOS. It is the same word used in John 1:1, and also throughout the beginning of Chapter 1. LOGOS is the Greek word for the word "word." Jesus is called the word because He was the great thinker behind the universe and was already in existence at the time of physical creation. He was always in existence. He was the great thinker behind the universe, and He created all things.
Blessings!
That was very helpful.
Thanks again.
God bless.
It appears I did it again!
I left out several consecutive words.
Here's what I meant to say midway through on my previous message.
You asked;
If the first Adam was created with a sinful nature could God say He saw everything was good?
Yes Ronald, Absolutely. He made Adam just the way he planned to make him, and Adam did exactly what was expected. Christ wasn't a afterthought. God knew Adam would sin before he made him.
Thanks again.
God bless.
Thanks for responding.
You said, "Temptation or testing is for an answer to whether someone will be obedient or disobedient,
Ronald here's a silly illustration. When a salesman at a car dealership let's you test drive a car, is he testing to see if the car is obedient? No. He's proving the car is what he say it is.
That's why the Spirit led Jesus into the wilderness to show Jesus is who the father said he was in the previous verse.
Here's how it's read straight through.
And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. Matthew 3:17 - Matthew 4:1.
You asked, How can one be obedient if they cannot be disobedient?
That would be a good question for you and I.
We have a rebellious nature.
Disobedience is our fleshly nature. That's not so with Christ.
If you have to resist sin, you have a sinful nature. That's not so with Christ.
You asked;
If the first Adam was created with a sinful nature could God say He saw everything.
Yes Ronald, Absolutely. He made Adam just the way he planned to make him, and Adam did exactly what was expected. Christ wasn't a afterthought. God knew Adam would sin before he made him.
That is the long answers I have for you Ronald.
Again, My short answer is, Jesus is God and God cannot sin.
Thanks Brother Ronald,
We both know we don't agree on this.
I just thought it was necessary to give my thoughts.
God bless.
Thanks for the reply. I will say again, I was not necessarily addressing you directly because if I was I would have messaged my reply to you, not Sean Paul. My point was that, just as you might use "whatever" there are many more words or phrases commonly used in our society today that can be used sinfully and we need to be careful of not only our speech but also be sure our intent is not sinful. That is my main point of what I said to Sean Paul. Have a good evening. I think we can exit this discussion now. God bless.
Thank you, brother, I know we have discussed it before and I think we both respect and care for each other as brothers. I will try not to rehash that discussion forgive me if there is some overlap, but could Christ have sinned your answer is no, I will just use this verse James 1:13, your answer, according to this verse He could not even have been tempted but Jesus was tempted or tested and Jesus stayed obedient to the Father. Temptation or testing is for an answer to whether someone will be obedient or disobedient, Romans 5:19.
1 Timothy 3:16 the word manifest is the Greek word phanero meaning to make visible, make clear. Jesus did that. In the flesh, I ask when did this happen? Did this happen when Mary conceived or when Jesus was anointed with the Holy Ghost and became the Messiah/Christ?
Hebrews 1:1-3 God spoke to us by His Son every word Jesus said was the word of God, not His. Jesus shunned Philip when he asked Jesus to show them the Father, John 14:9-10, every word Jesus said was the Father.
As I have said when God placed Adam in the garden he did not have a sinful nature but he sinned and was disobedient. Jesus was not conceived by man but by the Holy Ghost, Jesus did not have the sinful nature past down by the first Adam, but He was obedient and did not sin.
I did not say anything about the cross but after Jesus prayed in the garden asking the Father if there was any other way Jesus was obedient to the end, being beaten, nailed to the cross, and giving His life for us.
If the first Adam was created with a sinful nature could God say He saw everything He had made, and it was very good? This sinful nature has a sentence of death, and it was after Adam ate the fruit that it was applied, and it spread to all. Adam was the figure of him that was to come, Jesus, the last Adam who by His obedience we have hope. How can one be obedient if they cannot be disobedient? To say Jesus was sinless and obedient becomes a farce.
God bless,
RLW
Seven heads of the red dragon indicate what this verse signifies, " Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire."(Ps.104:4). God created angels by his breath. " By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent."( Job 26:13). So the Spirit gives the command number Seven a seat in heaven which is tagged as powers, principalities as St Pauls says, "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."(Ep.6:12)
The tail of the red dragon represents heresies with which one the third of the stars shall be cast off into the earth. "The ancient and honourable, he is the head; and the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail./ For the leaders of this people cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed."(Is.9:15-16)
"And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads./And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth"
Both wonders occur in heaven. This is clearly based on the everlasting covenant." And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness." (Ge.1:4) So both wonders are separated only after the Spirit of God moved on the face of the waters. Darkness which was upon the deep showed resistance knowledge of the holy. When God sends Jesus Christ the true Light into the world this rebelliousness in spirit was obvious. John 1:4-5 sums up the quality of the children of darkness. "In him (Jesus Christ) was life; and the life was the light of men./And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not." This also shall explain predestination is tied to the bedrock of the Word. Either you believed and made the seed sown in your heart grow or rejected it. "Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up."(Matt.15:13)
The red dragon is not the serpent but the body of the children of wrath.
The two wonders signify two nations namely children of light and children of wrath. Respectively their crowns indicate their origin.
The twelve stars indicate the Gospel of God working on the woman; meanwhile ten horns stamp the red dragon as a creature of the Law. "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin."(Ro.3:20; Gal.2:16) The beast's authority came from this dragon. "having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy."(Re.13:1). This demagogue is backed by sons of perdition and this spirit of disobedience is evident in our own times. His ten crowns signify the knowledge of sin. Seven heads of the red dragon indicate
Part 2.
Tempted of Satan.
Matthe 4:1. "Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
Here's my understanding.
In Matthew 3 we see Jesus being baptized by John the baptist.
Then, in verse 17it reads, "And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased"
That brings us to Chapter 4 where we see the tempting of Satan in which the word for tempted is "peiraz" which means to to test (objectively) that is endeavor 6
scrutinize entice discipline: - assay examine go about to prove.
( Matthew 4:1-11)
Verse 1 says it was the Spirit which led Jesus up into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
What is Important to note in this section is that the DEVIL WASN'T BEING USED TO TEST TO SEE IF JESUS WAS THE SON OF GOD. HE KNEW JESUS WAS THE SON OF GOD!
In verse 3 where it says "if thou be the Son of God"
It should read "And when the tempter came to him, he said, "SINCE" thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
Again, It was the Spirit that led Jesus into the wilderness to EXHIBIT this truth that was declared in Matthew 3:17.
That's my understanding on Christ being tempted.
Also; There is nowhere in scripture that says Christ had a inherited sin nature. .
I don't hold the view that Adam was created "Without" a sin nature. Adam was made a living soul;
Christ was made a Life giving spirit. Neither had to become that or hold on to it. Adam sinned and it proved he had that in him.
Christ proved he didn't.
HERE'S HOW THEY CONTRAST; "Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual
The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
1 Corinthians 15:46-47.
Christ was ordained to be the Lamb that takes away the sins of the whole world before the world began! He didn't have to qualify.
God bless.
Part 1.
You stated; "We are told
our Savior our priest and the only mediator between us, and God was tempted as we are tempted, would not this temptation only be valid if he could succumb to temptation and was able to sin?
As you said,
I know we have discussed this in the past and yes we know each other stance on this.
However, let me share my understanding on this from what I have gathered and some from this very site.
When dealing with whether Christ could have sinned, the short answer is no He's God. I know we don't agree on that so no need for a debate there.
Now, one would ask "how could God (IN THE FLESH) be tempted? That's who Christ was here on earth. God in the flesh. 1 Timothy 3:16.
You referenced Hebrews 4:15. It reads "For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
This doesn't say Jesus was tempted to sin as if he had a sin nature inherited from Adam.
The word tested here is "peiraz" which is to test (objectively) that is endeavor, scrutinize entice discipline: - assay examine go about to prove.
Christ was tested while in the flesh and "can be touched with the feeling of our infirmities;
This doesn't mean he is fighting back the urge to sin! It means he's being enticed but yet his testing was to prove him.
You see an example of the word temptation being used this way in James 1:12. The word here is peirasmos. It means putting to proof (by experiment [of good] experience [of evil] solicitation discipline or provocation); by implication adversity: - temptation.
Also;
The mocking Christ on the cross was not a test. He was where he wanted to be and doing what he came to do.
They had no power over him and the nails didn't hold him to that cross, love did.
He could have come down any time he wanted to.
He was in control, not them! John 19:9-11.
See Part 2.
The tempting of Satan.