Matthew 17:19 - Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?
The word could is the word ability in the Greek text. Why did we not have the ability, the capacity?
Matthew 17:20 - And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
Notice this because in the Greek it is literally "You are without faith." It specifically says you have none.
Matthew 17:21 - Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.
Just general information to share about Verse 21. If you are into following manuscripts, it is an addition. It is not in some manuscripts. But it actually describes what Jesus said about praying.
Matthew 17:23 - And they shall kill him, and the third day he shall be raised again. And they were exceeding sorry.
The word sorry is the word LUPAY, that means grief. They were exceedingly grieved. Remember before Peter rebuked Him when he said it. There's a difference between being sorry and being grieved!
Matthew 17:27 - Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.
Again, offend (which I previously shared) is the word SCANDALON, or SCANDALIDZO, lest we be the rock that they trip over in coming to the truth.
Matthew 16:24 - Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Now the word deny (ARNEOMAI), means to reject. This is what it means in the Greek. The word deny seems a little soft. It means to reject yourself.
Matthew 17:2 - And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
A more accurate word would be transformed rather than transfigured. In fact, it is the Greek where we get our English word metamorphosis from. He was completely changed in form and in substance. He was transformed before them.
Matthew 17:6 - And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.
In my humble opinion, the translators could have saved us some time here. Sore is from the word SFODRA that means exceedingly. They were terrified!
Matthew 17:15 - Lord, have mercy on my son: for he is lunatick, and sore vexed: for ofttimes he falleth into the fire, and oft into the water.
I love the way these people come. They are asking for mercy. They are asking for compassion. They are not demanding it. For he is a lunatick. That is the Greek word for "moon-struck." Our term lunatic comes from lunar. There are people who suffer, or have behavioral times, or phases, based on the various phases of the moon. That is where the term lunatic, "acting like a lunatic" comes from, Lunar.
Matthew 17:17 - Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.
Faithless means completely without faith. They were not lacking faith. They had none! The word "suffer" means to uphold or support. How long am I going to be around you? How long am I going to be the one that's supporting you, and you keep going to other people?
You have not discouraged me at all. As I have stated, I do value your input on the Greek language. Whether it be your intention to correct or not correct me, if I am in error with what I am sharing, I need to be corrected and shown why. Plus, and not to discredit anyone else here, but it means more coming from someone like you who has known the language their entire life.
I do have a couple questions for you. You gave the meanings of both Genesis and Gennesis, but why the double "nu" and why the eta instead of epsilon? How or why does this change the meaning of the word? Does adding the additional letter "nu" change the pronunciation of the word? I know in Koine Greek, the double gamma "yy" is pronounced with an "ng" sound, but why the double "nu" in Gennesis? Any help you can provide on this would be appreciated.
That is a great question! I'm not sure what the right answer would be, but it seems as though you have answered your own question by stating that "Judas was a manifestation of perdition, just as Jesus was the manifestation of God."
The phrase "son of perdition" is a title. But there is no correlation between son of perdition and Son of God, even though the word HUOIS is used in both places. Since HUIOS is referring to a son who inherits the estate from his father, then what would be Judas' inheritance? Christ has inherited all things from the Father, and we are joint heirs with Christ.
It is interesting that there are only two people in the bible that are given the title "son of perdition," Judas Iscariot and the antichrist that is to come. This is who he (Judas) was and had been his entire life.
Jesus, speaking to the Pharisees in John 8:44 says, "You are of your father the devil." Physically they are from Abraham. Spiritually they are from the devil. Here in John 17:12, Judas is called the son of perdition. Physically, he was the son of Simon. But spiritually, he was the son of the devil.
Remember back in John Chapter 6 Verse 70, "Jesus answered them, have not I chosen you 12 and one of you is a devil," a demon. Jesus didn't choose Judas to be a devil. He says one of you is already a devil. I'm choosing you as already being a devil. This gives us a hint as to what Judas' inheritance will be!
The word HUIOS used by itself would not have triggered the Jewish leaders at that time. It was the entire phrase Jesus used by claiming to be the "Son of God" that the Jews considered blasphemous. To them, He was claiming to be God, which we know He truly is God come in the flesh. By Him claiming to be God, He was making Himself equal to God (which He is).
As I said in my previous post my intention is not to interfere in your posts about the grk, neither my intention is to correct you. But since Chris made an inquiry about it I thought it would be good to point that out to you. So don't be discouraged and keep posting. About Genesis and Gennesis as I said before, even most of grk people can not tell the difference. Unless one is a scholar or have read it somewhere they wouldn't know the difference. So don't put pressure on yourself about it and keep going. GBU
I thought I would try to answer more in relation to the question at hand. What Christ does is indeed die for our sins and of course all of them at that time were future as none of us were around yet 2000 years ago. For someone TRULY saved; He has redeemed us and given the "death blow" as it is to our old NATURE; which is the root and cause of our outer actions or "sins" that manifest what is an outer symptom of an inner heart condition.
This is a crucial point in having assurance of salvation. For the seed of true faith to be planted and take root there is in time good fruit produced. God in the New Covenant establishes a permanent residence with the Holy Spirit and we are His adopted sons and part of the Bride of Christ; at least in the church age in which we live. The process of "sanctification" leads to glorification for all who are redeemed ( Romans 8:29-30). This is part of the chastisement of all He loves; and discipline ( Heb. 12:11). Until our old body is destroyed at death or redeemed at the Rapture the refinement process continues. Some who are disobedient as stated elsewhere on this post go through the fire as it were and suffer loss of rewards; hence are quickly sanctified through this process; or through an early death as Corinthians brings out to the man in sexual sin; or with those taking communion unworthily. We should mortify the deeds of the flesh daily; to prepare if necessary for martyrdom but also so as to please the Lord and secure a reward for service faithfully for Him.
An important point as well; sin is still sin. It may indeed cost us our lives or cause illness and in this life we may have to pay a high price for it. We should accept what is due to us if we indeed are arrested for wrongdoing; or suffer due to disobedience and of course a true believer suffers for doing right and for His Name's sake and Jesus promises great reward ( Matt. 5:10-12).
A true believer won't be lost but is grieved in the Spirit with sin
Seven angels "having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God."(15:1) Martyrs are in heaven: And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark."In Re.19 the Spirit gives us the Word of God joining war with the beast. These several sevens follow the seven days mentioned in the covenant which we shall see from the consequences of the seven vials.
first vial- "poured out his vial upon the earth;" (16:2) cf. God created the heaven and the earth Ge.1:1
second vial upon the sea (16:3) cf. "And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above" Ge.1:7 -second day
Third vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; (16:4). cf "And the gathering together of the waters called he Seas."(Ge.1:10-day three) "And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun"(16:8) cf. "And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven"(Ge.14-fourth day
"And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; "(16:10) "Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea!"-Re.12:12. Son of perdition who refused to enter the seventh day and the beast 666'
"And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates;"(16:12)
"And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet./ For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth"(16:13-14). Just as the rider on the white horse went forth conquering and to conquer we have Satan with triadic motives, frogs.
Half an hour in heaven (8:1) to warn the Hour of his judgment: "Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, "(14:7)
You will find what is called the judgment seat of Christ in 2 Corinthians 5:10,
The judgment seat is called the bema in the Greek.
2 Corinthians 5:10, "FOR WE must all appear before the JUDGMENT SEAT OF CHRIST; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be (GOOD OR BAD).
Notice what's in caps.
1) Paul adds himself to the group that must appear.
(THIS JUDGMENT IS FOR BELIEVERS ONLY)
2) Paul says, "that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be (GOOD OR BAD). This judgment is for REWARDS for the believers, NOT a judgment for salvation. John 5:24 reads Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and SHALL NOT COME INTO CONDEMNATION; but is passed from death unto life.
This is NOT the GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT. That will be the final judgment of the wicked prior to their being cast into the lake of fire ( Revelation 20:11-15). The Great White Throne will be unbelievers.
MORE ON THE BEMA SEAT.
A bema was a raised platform on which judges sat to view athletic games. Their job was to make sure contestants followed the rules and to present awards.
1 Corinthians 3:10-15 gives us a glance on how this judgment may be performed.
The material used in this portion of scripture speaks of the source behind our works performed.
Those who build with gold, silver, precious stones, their work will abide and be refined. This group is moved by the Holyspirit.
Those who build with wood, hay, stubble; this group works will be consumed by fire. This group wasn't led by the Spirit, but by the flesh.
"And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour."
In a series of sevens the Revelation of Jesus Christ lays out judgment meted out in accordance with the everlasting covenant. The day of salvation is distinct from the hour or months that we come across and it pertains to the nation of Israel. For example we have the rapture associated with the two witnesses. "And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them." The same power of God that lifted up Jesus Christ works on these witnesses. How the Spirit reckons those witnesses for the testimony of God is in this verse. It is set during the great tribulation but the "winepress of the wrath of God. is set in motion from Abel onwards " And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped."(14:16) In the series of seven what we read from Re. Ch.6 is the wrath of God upon the nations. "And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs."(14:20) 1600 furlongs as with 12000 furlongs are tags for the word of God and for the gospel respectively. 4x4x100 is counted according to the generation of Jesus Christ. 12x1000 likewise refers to the gospel of Christ and of God.
Three sets of sevens we can find beginning with the opening the book with seals. Seven trumpets pendent on the seventh seal lead us to the great switch-over: "The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."(11:15)
The line is stretched across Jerusalem. "My house shall be built in it, saith the Lord of hosts, and a line shall be stretched forth upon Jerusalem." This house is built on the stone which is to become the heavenly Zion."
July 14, 2024 Church of God in Christ Sunday School Book 1 Corinthians 8:1-13 KJV
My Repsond:
COGIC WORSHIP: I worship the God that is Jesus Christ- A one and only God that truth, Father and holy. God of and teaches obedience. God that will rule with fairness and subjection and subdues. God of knowledge, love & understanding , God that allows you hear and listen. Permanent forever God. God of a united community, God of grace. A God and teaches you compassion and good behavior and how to speak.
If Jesus died to pay for our sins, past, present and future, and we try to live right why then would you have to face judgement? What is the Bema Seat and where do I find it in the Bible? Sorry for so many questions, but I want learn all I can so I can get to Heaven.
" So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God./But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."
Christ in us or not is not what our reason can teach us. It is simply the matter of faith. It has been determined by God who framed the worlds by his word.(He.11:3) So either you believe the God document as truth or you reject it. There cannot be any exception to the truth. If the kingdom of God in your mind is flawed everything is flawed. If it is truth, the inerrancy of the Bible is by faith. The imposter churches create heresies by disregarding this cardinal rule. Devils also tremble "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."(Jas.2:19). Devils cannot however please God because they cannot faith which comes from hearing, hearing the word of God. "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."(He. 11.6) We see faith demonstrated by the demon possessed man. "Now the man out of whom the devils were departed besought him that he might be with him: but Jesus sent him away, saying,/Return to thine own house, and shew how great things God hath done unto thee. And he went his way, and published throughout the whole city how great things Jesus had done unto him." This was faith created by the word of God. On the other hand the good folks of Gadarenes, "Then the whole multitude of the country of the Gadarenes round about besought him to depart from them;" Their faith was tied up with their swines. Isn't the same when these churches base faith on what is 'prosperity' and on nationalism?
In watering down Christ as the visible image of God and his words to mean less that what it says false teachers prove their gospel is of the devil and another Christ.
As with seven stars, seven seals seven trumpets sounding is determined in heaven. According when the seventh trumpet sounds we understand why God sanctified the seventh day. (Ge.2:3) "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever." Here we are looking at the saints redeemed from the earth have entered into the God's rest.
"And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it:"(Ge.2:3) Blessedness the covenant stipulated was all for those who entered therein by faith. For those who rejected the blessings are denoted by 7x1000. The red dragon and the beast with seven heads indicate their sinfulness was complete.
God punishes the nations that did not repent. The seven angels with vials in Ch.16 and the consequences once again follow as with the trumpets in accordance with the everlasting covenant. "And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done." (16:17)
"It is done" establishes the wrath of God as total. We read the same words. "And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. -Re.21:6)
In addition to this the command number 3 establishes it is the Son who is fulfilling what God the Father had willed. He.11:3
Three refers to "In our image" where most holy place, holy place and saved nations we saw in the Vision of the Woman clothed with the Sun. The woman and the earth (12:18) is a tag for Israel and other nations. "And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles."(Ze.14:16). This explains why gates of the city shall not be shut."And the gates of it shall not be shut" (21:25)
"And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath."
Jerusalem was no exception to the rule governing urban sprawl where the city is a planner's dream but carefully laid out avenues, parks and residential areas burst out of its seams that soon it is a nightmare for the city fathers. Sinful man makes the city and Jerusalem was typical. "How is the faithful city become an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers."(Is.1:21). The earthquake mentioned in the wake of rapture was signified by the day of the Lord. "And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives,"(Ze.14:4) "And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found."(Re.16:20)
At the same hour indicates several climacteric changes. Israel lifted up is one event. "lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses./And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited." (Ze.14:1-0-11) This is what we shall as New Jerusalem. Below the line stretched by the angel the city shall undergo rapid changes. "and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven."(Re.11:13) We shall see them part of the nations walking under the light of the Lamb. (Re.21:24)
"and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: " The result of the sixth angel sounding trumpet is given in multiples of 7 which is according to the everlasting covenant. This is obvious from v.15.
If Christ lives in you the body is dead because of Sin. Ro.8:9-11. Recalling Nicodemus who similarly doubted Christ living in a believer is to be spiritually understood. 'That God may be in all' you had better begin with faith.
I know it have to be frustrating when you clearly stated you were going to share YOUR thoughts on some scripture from a Greek perspective and you wasn't trying to push it on anyone and yet have to be picked apart from all sides.
Don't be discouraged, you shouldn't be surprised.
In researching the scripture as suggested, I found what I thought was interesting and would like to ask you a question.
In Matthew 16:16 you mentioned the word Son used in the Greek is "HUIOS or Uihos" and that is a title of God to the Jews. What Peter was confessing was you are the Messiah and you are God.
That is also the view held by many. Also as you stated TEKNON means a child by birth. A HUIOS is someone who inherits the estate from his father. "A title of God to the Jews."
Using the word HUIOS instead of TEKNON would cause a that!
"The Huios of God" ties you to the ever lasting essence of God!
This reminds me of Matthew 1:23 "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, GOD WITH US.
MY QUESTION.
When speaking of Judas in John 17:12 isn't the word Son/Huios used in the same way, as a title instead of by birth?
John 17:12 "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the SON OF PERDITION; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
The word perdition means "destruction, ruin, waste." Judas was not the literal son of "ruin, destruction, and waste," but those things were the identity of Judas' life. Judas was a manifestation of perdition, just as Jesus was the manifestation of God.
If I may, this is in love, I feel the love you have every time I read your posts. I love the KJV it is the only Bible I read and study. There are some poor translations out there, it is not the translation of the Bible we have, it is the Holy Spirit that guides us to the truth. I understand English is a world language but less than 25 percent of the population of the world can read English.
God can reach us in a newspaper or a history book, it is our belief and faith in our Lord Jesus that will guide us and lead us in the path He wants us to follow regardless of what language we speak. Jesus said He would send the Comforter, the Holy Ghost/Spirit to teach and guide us. So whatever translation we have or language we speak, if our faith is in Jesus the truth will be shown to us. Is it wrong to warn about bad translations, No, but do not let it prevent you from spreading the love you have in you.
Please forgive me if I have overstepped or offended you in any way.
"And the same hour was there a great earthquake." The same earth quake we have in the Book of Zechariah, It is called the day of the Lord. Because God is directly leading the events. It is recalled in the v.5. "and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee."(Ze.14:5) Jesus speaking on the end times had warned, " But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."(Matt.24:36)
This hour is not to be seen according to earth time but according to the time which God has set in relation to Israel. Time times and a half time is set in the Command Number Ten. Zechariah tells us "And half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.:(14:4)
Here we can understand the significance of Ze.1:16 The line is stretched the holy city from the city under judgment. The voice from heaven commands the dead, and it is rapture, " great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them."(Re.11:12). This holy city is 'lifted up" (Ze.14:10). The usage of 'cloud' evokes the holy angels accompanying the Son of man in his glory.
Here we have the hour again mentioned. The angel warns,"Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come."(Re.14:7) and the next verse, "And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, " Jerusalem and Babylon in post-rapture is interchangeable. These are the Gentiles earmarked for the court in the new heaven and new earth.
"And the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand"
The tenth part in v.13 refers to Israel as the ten horns of the dragon.(12:2)
"And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one." That day is the day of Regeneration." (Ze.14:9)
Recently Rosaria Butterfield spoke as seen in a Cross Con site about repentance originally posted 5 months ago; but I am not sure where specifically she spoke. She mentioned how it is Christ in us and used verses in Romans about how sin dwells in us yet not I ( Romans 7:17). As to discussion on whether our old sin nature is completely dead or in a dying state as we are sanctified I will leave to another discussion. Here I am focusing on the audacity as it were; to anyone's reaction to such a bold statement that Christ lives in us.
If we think carefully; we become aware that the Holy Spirit works in a believer when we are convicted of sin and thus it is more than just carefully scripted language that fits the Biblical formula for salvation that affects anyone. The Lord chooses to use His Word along with the Spirit ( Romans 10:14) through the Great Commission to reach souls. There are instances where people read the Word and are convicted and come to conversion without a human agent directly involved in sharing scriptural truth; and reports of visions; dreams etc which have to be carefully evaluated. I believe it is possible for someone to recognize the Lord in someone even before sharing scripture. In any case the Lord does the work and receives all credit due.
Let me state what these facts are NOT.
1) Boasting in any way or through our attitudes displaying any air of superiority that we are saved; sanctified and delivered from the wrath to come. Christ Himself clearly came to serve and not to be served; and show the ultimate love sacrificing His life for His sheep ( Mark 10:45).
2) Working in our own strength to live out a life of righteousness or by merely following a confession or catechism or profession of faith.
It should be Christ in us that leads to true persecution and also draws people to Himself. It is not contention and strife merely to start an argument or get attention.
Thank you, brother, I agree, giving our understanding even if we do not agree cannot be offensive. My understanding of Scripture has grown from discussions we have here, I have benefitted from you, S Spencer, Chris, Giannis, GiGi, and others here. Many sites unless you say you follow the Nicene Creed you cannot even post.
I understand some Bible verses can support the Trinity doctrine. I can see where in John 10:33 it says they said Jesus blasphemed because "being a man, makest thyself, God". In John 10:22-42 they first asked Jesus "If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly" and Jesus said, "I told you, and ye believed not:". So, Jesus told them He was the Messiah, they did not even accept that, but they were not His sheep, because they did not hear His voice.
We see in John 17 that the Father gave Jesus power over all flesh to give eternal life so that they/us might know the only true God and Jesus Christ/the Messiah whom the Father sent. In John 10 Jesus continues saying His Father is greater than all and the works Jesus did were the Father's works, not His, and Jesus said this in John 14:28. Jesus said, "I and my Father are one". Jesus also said in John 17 "And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
John 10:34 Jesus quotes Psalms 82:6 where the judges of Israel who exercised the authority of God, are gods, gods here is the same Greek word in verses 33 and 36 where it is makest thyself God. In verse 36 Jesus rebukes them "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?"
What I see the works Jesus did were not His works, but the Father's works done through the Holy Spirit that Jesus was anointed with without measure. That is why Jesus said this, in John 14:17 and John 16:7.
I do thank you for discussing this with me, we can let it rest if you want to.
MayI add my understanding of the word? The word Genesis given to the first book is given as 'in the beginning' with reference to the books of Moses collectively called the Pentateuch, a word of Greek origin meaning "the five-fold book. It refers to the everlasting covenant with everlasting life for the blessed and for those who rejected, everlasting punishment, The seven days are articles with regards to the day decreed for the Son.(Ps.2:7). Matthew 1:1 clearly states that the gospel is "The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham." This generation of Jesus covers the entire day decreed for him according to the covenant. So generations of Adam, Noah are all generations in context of Jesus Christ the same He.13:8 also Alpha Omega, the beginning and the ending.
It fits with the Pauline dictum. "And he is before all things, and by him all things consist."( Col.1:17)
"for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months."
Gentiles do not figure in the everlasting covenant between God and Man. He has called all for His blessings which we can narrowed down as applied to man who is created 'in our image and after our likeness" The latter therefore modifies the man as one who keeps the sayings of 'this book"(Re.22:9). He is man and has a spiritual ancillary which the term angel' denotes.
Two witnesses who preached are laid as witness to Jerusalem for a specific reason. "And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified."(11:8) City of Jerusalem is interchangeable with Sodom and Egypt or every other city that comes under the judgment of God. in Ze.1:16 we have it. "I am returned to Jerusalem with mercies: my house shall be built in it,... and a line shall be stretched forth upon Jerusalem."We have in Re.Ch.21 where a single measurement settles what is holy and what belongs to the Gentiles. The Gentiles are on the down side of the line. It is interchangeable with Sodom, Egypt and Babylon. Of the last we read thus: " Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication."(Re.14:8; It is Jerusalem, "And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus."(17:6).
There is no mention of nations either in the everlasting covenant. Blessedness therefore is covenanted with the man, "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours."(Re.14:12-13). The word as a voice and as a sign.The two witnesses are a sign.
"But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles:"
Notice that the angel is asking St John to measure the temple of God while in the vision of Ezekiel, "and, behold, there was a man, whose appearance was like the appearance of brass, with a line of flax in his hand, and a measuring reed;"(Ez.40:3). Who is the angel talking to John but a fellow servant? (" and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book"-Re.22:9). We find mention of one of the seven angels in the Ch.21. All these seven angels we saw here double as stars as in the inaugural vision of John (Re.1:20). So these angels are interchangeable since they keep the sayings of the book representing the revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave him.(Re.1:1). It is for these reason the two witnesses represented heaven and earth. Isaiah similar invoke them in the ch.1:2 " Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the Lord hath spoken," The two witnesses signify the word that God has spoken. Elijah, Elisha and all the prophets for the reason are stand-in for the Son. (He.1:1)
Since the stone was laid in Zion (Is.28:16) building program of the temple of God has been going on and God already had the saints that worship therein from heaven as well as from the earth. So where shall we look for the Gentiles? They are shown in Re.21: 22-24
Consider the tabernacle in the wilderness set is Up and Down as we see the Woman set on the moon in Re.12.
Most holy place refers to the thrones of God and of the Lamb.(Re.22:1)
Holy place refers to the city. "For the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof."
And the court refers to the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.(v.24).
This court is earmarked for the nations, -the Gentiles and Israel alike
The two she bears tearing the 42 gives us a tag Two signifying the same heaven and earth concordat. Two she bears as the Spirit has used there serves us to think of the Gentiles as those who stand athwart in the Salvation Plan of God. Korah and sons dared challenge the authority of Moses and of God; the case of Aarons sons also brought instant retribution. The two witnesses represent all the martyrs from Abel to the emergence of the beast. It goes past the rapture. "And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them."(Re.11:7).
In order to understand them the Spirit has laid down two numbers one of which are to be seen from the two groups from the vision of the Woman clothed with the Sun. God has prepared a place for the woman "they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days."(Re.12:6). It is to which Jesus referred and also lays down the only rule to be found there. "No man cometh unto the Father, but by me."( John 14:6). So the place prepared of God holds a tag 1260. This is set in days as the everlasting covenant is marked by day. Both are consistent with the day that God has appointed for his Son by a decree.(Ps.2:7)
Another tag is set in months. "for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months." Significance of month is also set by God. "This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you."(Ex.12:2). We come across this number in the life of Elisha who was jeered at for his baldness. Why would some children jeer him without a cause? The reason is simple. He is set in the God directive as a double for Jesus Christ. It is the holy angel who stands as witness before God in heaven. Jesus also quotes what the Psalmist had written beforehand."But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause. "( John 15:25;Ps.69:4)
2 Ki.2:23-24. Elisha was on the way to Bethel the house of God and those children of Belial are tagged as 42. They represented sons of perdition and we read that the authority of the beast is tagged by 42. ("and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months."-Re.13:5) The great dragon represents those who hated man-child. It is no brainer to think of the nation of Israel hated Jesus for the reason he came from God. "And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them."(v.24)
In Matthew 1:1 the scripture writes GENESEOS which means OF GENESIS. But in Matthew 1:18 it writes GENNESIS, with double "n", also the second "e" is written in grk with "eta", not "epsilon" as in GENESIS. It is not the same word. GENNESIS means birth . Also genesis which means origin or from the begining or creation from the beginning is often associated to birth. Those two different words which look almost the same confuse even grk people, many don't know the difference in meaning. GBU
Secondly, I want to assure both you and Jaz that you have not and will not offend me by disagreeing with anything I say. Does it offend either of you when I disagree? It shouldn't! We all come here to share our understanding of scripture. Are we to expect that everything we say here will always be agreed upon by everyone? I would hope not. If we disagree, we just disagree. And that is okay. For me personally, I admit that there's always that possibility that I can be wrong. Not too many people will say this about themselves. I also think that even though we may disagree with each other on something, there is that possibility that we might both be wrong.
But no, I will never be offended if either of you (or anyone else for that matter) disagrees with me. If we're being rude to each other while disagreeing, that's a different story. But I'm only doing the same thing that you and everyone else here is doing which is sharing my understanding of what I've studied. We are human. None of us are infallible in our understanding. There will always be disagreement from someone no matter what we share. Not related to our discussion here, but years ago on a different website, I posted an exact quote from the Bible, nothing more, nothing less. I never even added my understanding, just quoted word for word a piece of scripture from the Bible. And guess what? Someone disagreed with it. Go figure!
Matthew 17:19 - Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?
The word could is the word ability in the Greek text. Why did we not have the ability, the capacity?
Matthew 17:20 - And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
Notice this because in the Greek it is literally "You are without faith." It specifically says you have none.
Matthew 17:21 - Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.
Just general information to share about Verse 21. If you are into following manuscripts, it is an addition. It is not in some manuscripts. But it actually describes what Jesus said about praying.
Matthew 17:23 - And they shall kill him, and the third day he shall be raised again. And they were exceeding sorry.
The word sorry is the word LUPAY, that means grief. They were exceedingly grieved. Remember before Peter rebuked Him when he said it. There's a difference between being sorry and being grieved!
Matthew 17:27 - Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.
Again, offend (which I previously shared) is the word SCANDALON, or SCANDALIDZO, lest we be the rock that they trip over in coming to the truth.
Continuation in Matthew, (Part 20):
Matthew 16:24 - Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Now the word deny (ARNEOMAI), means to reject. This is what it means in the Greek. The word deny seems a little soft. It means to reject yourself.
Matthew 17:2 - And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
A more accurate word would be transformed rather than transfigured. In fact, it is the Greek where we get our English word metamorphosis from. He was completely changed in form and in substance. He was transformed before them.
Matthew 17:6 - And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.
In my humble opinion, the translators could have saved us some time here. Sore is from the word SFODRA that means exceedingly. They were terrified!
Matthew 17:15 - Lord, have mercy on my son: for he is lunatick, and sore vexed: for ofttimes he falleth into the fire, and oft into the water.
I love the way these people come. They are asking for mercy. They are asking for compassion. They are not demanding it. For he is a lunatick. That is the Greek word for "moon-struck." Our term lunatic comes from lunar. There are people who suffer, or have behavioral times, or phases, based on the various phases of the moon. That is where the term lunatic, "acting like a lunatic" comes from, Lunar.
Matthew 17:17 - Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.
Faithless means completely without faith. They were not lacking faith. They had none! The word "suffer" means to uphold or support. How long am I going to be around you? How long am I going to be the one that's supporting you, and you keep going to other people?
You have not discouraged me at all. As I have stated, I do value your input on the Greek language. Whether it be your intention to correct or not correct me, if I am in error with what I am sharing, I need to be corrected and shown why. Plus, and not to discredit anyone else here, but it means more coming from someone like you who has known the language their entire life.
I do have a couple questions for you. You gave the meanings of both Genesis and Gennesis, but why the double "nu" and why the eta instead of epsilon? How or why does this change the meaning of the word? Does adding the additional letter "nu" change the pronunciation of the word? I know in Koine Greek, the double gamma "yy" is pronounced with an "ng" sound, but why the double "nu" in Gennesis? Any help you can provide on this would be appreciated.
Thanks, brother!
That is a great question! I'm not sure what the right answer would be, but it seems as though you have answered your own question by stating that "Judas was a manifestation of perdition, just as Jesus was the manifestation of God."
The phrase "son of perdition" is a title. But there is no correlation between son of perdition and Son of God, even though the word HUOIS is used in both places. Since HUIOS is referring to a son who inherits the estate from his father, then what would be Judas' inheritance? Christ has inherited all things from the Father, and we are joint heirs with Christ.
It is interesting that there are only two people in the bible that are given the title "son of perdition," Judas Iscariot and the antichrist that is to come. This is who he (Judas) was and had been his entire life.
Jesus, speaking to the Pharisees in John 8:44 says, "You are of your father the devil." Physically they are from Abraham. Spiritually they are from the devil. Here in John 17:12, Judas is called the son of perdition. Physically, he was the son of Simon. But spiritually, he was the son of the devil.
Remember back in John Chapter 6 Verse 70, "Jesus answered them, have not I chosen you 12 and one of you is a devil," a demon. Jesus didn't choose Judas to be a devil. He says one of you is already a devil. I'm choosing you as already being a devil. This gives us a hint as to what Judas' inheritance will be!
The word HUIOS used by itself would not have triggered the Jewish leaders at that time. It was the entire phrase Jesus used by claiming to be the "Son of God" that the Jews considered blasphemous. To them, He was claiming to be God, which we know He truly is God come in the flesh. By Him claiming to be God, He was making Himself equal to God (which He is).
Blessings to you!
As I said in my previous post my intention is not to interfere in your posts about the grk, neither my intention is to correct you. But since Chris made an inquiry about it I thought it would be good to point that out to you. So don't be discouraged and keep posting. About Genesis and Gennesis as I said before, even most of grk people can not tell the difference. Unless one is a scholar or have read it somewhere they wouldn't know the difference. So don't put pressure on yourself about it and keep going. GBU
This is a crucial point in having assurance of salvation. For the seed of true faith to be planted and take root there is in time good fruit produced. God in the New Covenant establishes a permanent residence with the Holy Spirit and we are His adopted sons and part of the Bride of Christ; at least in the church age in which we live. The process of "sanctification" leads to glorification for all who are redeemed ( Romans 8:29-30). This is part of the chastisement of all He loves; and discipline ( Heb. 12:11). Until our old body is destroyed at death or redeemed at the Rapture the refinement process continues. Some who are disobedient as stated elsewhere on this post go through the fire as it were and suffer loss of rewards; hence are quickly sanctified through this process; or through an early death as Corinthians brings out to the man in sexual sin; or with those taking communion unworthily. We should mortify the deeds of the flesh daily; to prepare if necessary for martyrdom but also so as to please the Lord and secure a reward for service faithfully for Him.
An important point as well; sin is still sin. It may indeed cost us our lives or cause illness and in this life we may have to pay a high price for it. We should accept what is due to us if we indeed are arrested for wrongdoing; or suffer due to disobedience and of course a true believer suffers for doing right and for His Name's sake and Jesus promises great reward ( Matt. 5:10-12).
A true believer won't be lost but is grieved in the Spirit with sin
Seven angels "having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God."(15:1) Martyrs are in heaven: And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark."In Re.19 the Spirit gives us the Word of God joining war with the beast. These several sevens follow the seven days mentioned in the covenant which we shall see from the consequences of the seven vials.
first vial- "poured out his vial upon the earth;" (16:2) cf. God created the heaven and the earth Ge.1:1
second vial upon the sea (16:3) cf. "And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above" Ge.1:7 -second day
Third vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; (16:4). cf "And the gathering together of the waters called he Seas."(Ge.1:10-day three) "And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun"(16:8) cf. "And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven"(Ge.14-fourth day
"And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; "(16:10) "Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea!"-Re.12:12. Son of perdition who refused to enter the seventh day and the beast 666'
"And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates;"(16:12)
"And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet./ For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth"(16:13-14). Just as the rider on the white horse went forth conquering and to conquer we have Satan with triadic motives, frogs.
Half an hour in heaven (8:1) to warn the Hour of his judgment: "Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, "(14:7)
You will find what is called the judgment seat of Christ in 2 Corinthians 5:10,
The judgment seat is called the bema in the Greek.
2 Corinthians 5:10, "FOR WE must all appear before the JUDGMENT SEAT OF CHRIST; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be (GOOD OR BAD).
Notice what's in caps.
1) Paul adds himself to the group that must appear.
(THIS JUDGMENT IS FOR BELIEVERS ONLY)
2) Paul says, "that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be (GOOD OR BAD). This judgment is for REWARDS for the believers, NOT a judgment for salvation. John 5:24 reads Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and SHALL NOT COME INTO CONDEMNATION; but is passed from death unto life.
This is NOT the GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT. That will be the final judgment of the wicked prior to their being cast into the lake of fire ( Revelation 20:11-15). The Great White Throne will be unbelievers.
MORE ON THE BEMA SEAT.
A bema was a raised platform on which judges sat to view athletic games. Their job was to make sure contestants followed the rules and to present awards.
1 Corinthians 3:10-15 gives us a glance on how this judgment may be performed.
The material used in this portion of scripture speaks of the source behind our works performed.
Those who build with gold, silver, precious stones, their work will abide and be refined. This group is moved by the Holyspirit.
Those who build with wood, hay, stubble; this group works will be consumed by fire. This group wasn't led by the Spirit, but by the flesh.
God bless.
"And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour."
In a series of sevens the Revelation of Jesus Christ lays out judgment meted out in accordance with the everlasting covenant. The day of salvation is distinct from the hour or months that we come across and it pertains to the nation of Israel. For example we have the rapture associated with the two witnesses. "And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them." The same power of God that lifted up Jesus Christ works on these witnesses. How the Spirit reckons those witnesses for the testimony of God is in this verse. It is set during the great tribulation but the "winepress of the wrath of God. is set in motion from Abel onwards " And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped."(14:16) In the series of seven what we read from Re. Ch.6 is the wrath of God upon the nations. "And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs."(14:20) 1600 furlongs as with 12000 furlongs are tags for the word of God and for the gospel respectively. 4x4x100 is counted according to the generation of Jesus Christ. 12x1000 likewise refers to the gospel of Christ and of God.
Three sets of sevens we can find beginning with the opening the book with seals. Seven trumpets pendent on the seventh seal lead us to the great switch-over: "The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."(11:15)
The line is stretched across Jerusalem. "My house shall be built in it, saith the Lord of hosts, and a line shall be stretched forth upon Jerusalem." This house is built on the stone which is to become the heavenly Zion."
I have been praying. And yes, it seems that there may be more to this than just the 20 year old shooter.
Greetings to you, with joy and peace in Him
My Repsond:
COGIC WORSHIP: I worship the God that is Jesus Christ- A one and only God that truth, Father and holy. God of and teaches obedience. God that will rule with fairness and subjection and subdues. God of knowledge, love & understanding , God that allows you hear and listen. Permanent forever God. God of a united community, God of grace. A God and teaches you compassion and good behavior and how to speak.
" So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God./But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."
Christ in us or not is not what our reason can teach us. It is simply the matter of faith. It has been determined by God who framed the worlds by his word.(He.11:3) So either you believe the God document as truth or you reject it. There cannot be any exception to the truth. If the kingdom of God in your mind is flawed everything is flawed. If it is truth, the inerrancy of the Bible is by faith. The imposter churches create heresies by disregarding this cardinal rule. Devils also tremble "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."(Jas.2:19). Devils cannot however please God because they cannot faith which comes from hearing, hearing the word of God. "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."(He. 11.6) We see faith demonstrated by the demon possessed man. "Now the man out of whom the devils were departed besought him that he might be with him: but Jesus sent him away, saying,/Return to thine own house, and shew how great things God hath done unto thee. And he went his way, and published throughout the whole city how great things Jesus had done unto him." This was faith created by the word of God. On the other hand the good folks of Gadarenes, "Then the whole multitude of the country of the Gadarenes round about besought him to depart from them;" Their faith was tied up with their swines. Isn't the same when these churches base faith on what is 'prosperity' and on nationalism?
In watering down Christ as the visible image of God and his words to mean less that what it says false teachers prove their gospel is of the devil and another Christ.
As with seven stars, seven seals seven trumpets sounding is determined in heaven. According when the seventh trumpet sounds we understand why God sanctified the seventh day. (Ge.2:3) "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever." Here we are looking at the saints redeemed from the earth have entered into the God's rest.
"And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it:"(Ge.2:3) Blessedness the covenant stipulated was all for those who entered therein by faith. For those who rejected the blessings are denoted by 7x1000. The red dragon and the beast with seven heads indicate their sinfulness was complete.
God punishes the nations that did not repent. The seven angels with vials in Ch.16 and the consequences once again follow as with the trumpets in accordance with the everlasting covenant. "And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done." (16:17)
"It is done" establishes the wrath of God as total. We read the same words. "And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. -Re.21:6)
In addition to this the command number 3 establishes it is the Son who is fulfilling what God the Father had willed. He.11:3
Three refers to "In our image" where most holy place, holy place and saved nations we saw in the Vision of the Woman clothed with the Sun. The woman and the earth (12:18) is a tag for Israel and other nations. "And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles."(Ze.14:16). This explains why gates of the city shall not be shut."And the gates of it shall not be shut" (21:25)
"And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath."
Jerusalem was no exception to the rule governing urban sprawl where the city is a planner's dream but carefully laid out avenues, parks and residential areas burst out of its seams that soon it is a nightmare for the city fathers. Sinful man makes the city and Jerusalem was typical. "How is the faithful city become an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers."(Is.1:21). The earthquake mentioned in the wake of rapture was signified by the day of the Lord. "And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives,"(Ze.14:4) "And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found."(Re.16:20)
At the same hour indicates several climacteric changes. Israel lifted up is one event. "lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses./And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited." (Ze.14:1-0-11) This is what we shall as New Jerusalem. Below the line stretched by the angel the city shall undergo rapid changes. "and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven."(Re.11:13) We shall see them part of the nations walking under the light of the Lamb. (Re.21:24)
"and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: " The result of the sixth angel sounding trumpet is given in multiples of 7 which is according to the everlasting covenant. This is obvious from v.15.
If Christ lives in you the body is dead because of Sin. Ro.8:9-11. Recalling Nicodemus who similarly doubted Christ living in a believer is to be spiritually understood. 'That God may be in all' you had better begin with faith.
I know it have to be frustrating when you clearly stated you were going to share YOUR thoughts on some scripture from a Greek perspective and you wasn't trying to push it on anyone and yet have to be picked apart from all sides.
Don't be discouraged, you shouldn't be surprised.
In researching the scripture as suggested, I found what I thought was interesting and would like to ask you a question.
In Matthew 16:16 you mentioned the word Son used in the Greek is "HUIOS or Uihos" and that is a title of God to the Jews. What Peter was confessing was you are the Messiah and you are God.
That is also the view held by many. Also as you stated TEKNON means a child by birth. A HUIOS is someone who inherits the estate from his father. "A title of God to the Jews."
Using the word HUIOS instead of TEKNON would cause a that!
"The Huios of God" ties you to the ever lasting essence of God!
This reminds me of Matthew 1:23 "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, GOD WITH US.
MY QUESTION.
When speaking of Judas in John 17:12 isn't the word Son/Huios used in the same way, as a title instead of by birth?
John 17:12 "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the SON OF PERDITION; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
The word perdition means "destruction, ruin, waste." Judas was not the literal son of "ruin, destruction, and waste," but those things were the identity of Judas' life. Judas was a manifestation of perdition, just as Jesus was the manifestation of God.
Thanks and God bless.
If I may, this is in love, I feel the love you have every time I read your posts. I love the KJV it is the only Bible I read and study. There are some poor translations out there, it is not the translation of the Bible we have, it is the Holy Spirit that guides us to the truth. I understand English is a world language but less than 25 percent of the population of the world can read English.
God can reach us in a newspaper or a history book, it is our belief and faith in our Lord Jesus that will guide us and lead us in the path He wants us to follow regardless of what language we speak. Jesus said He would send the Comforter, the Holy Ghost/Spirit to teach and guide us. So whatever translation we have or language we speak, if our faith is in Jesus the truth will be shown to us. Is it wrong to warn about bad translations, No, but do not let it prevent you from spreading the love you have in you.
Please forgive me if I have overstepped or offended you in any way.
God bless,
RLW
"And the same hour was there a great earthquake." The same earth quake we have in the Book of Zechariah, It is called the day of the Lord. Because God is directly leading the events. It is recalled in the v.5. "and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee."(Ze.14:5) Jesus speaking on the end times had warned, " But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."(Matt.24:36)
This hour is not to be seen according to earth time but according to the time which God has set in relation to Israel. Time times and a half time is set in the Command Number Ten. Zechariah tells us "And half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.:(14:4)
Here we can understand the significance of Ze.1:16 The line is stretched the holy city from the city under judgment. The voice from heaven commands the dead, and it is rapture, " great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them."(Re.11:12). This holy city is 'lifted up" (Ze.14:10). The usage of 'cloud' evokes the holy angels accompanying the Son of man in his glory.
Here we have the hour again mentioned. The angel warns,"Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come."(Re.14:7) and the next verse, "And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, " Jerusalem and Babylon in post-rapture is interchangeable. These are the Gentiles earmarked for the court in the new heaven and new earth.
"And the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand"
The tenth part in v.13 refers to Israel as the ten horns of the dragon.(12:2)
"And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one." That day is the day of Regeneration." (Ze.14:9)
Recently Rosaria Butterfield spoke as seen in a Cross Con site about repentance originally posted 5 months ago; but I am not sure where specifically she spoke. She mentioned how it is Christ in us and used verses in Romans about how sin dwells in us yet not I ( Romans 7:17). As to discussion on whether our old sin nature is completely dead or in a dying state as we are sanctified I will leave to another discussion. Here I am focusing on the audacity as it were; to anyone's reaction to such a bold statement that Christ lives in us.
If we think carefully; we become aware that the Holy Spirit works in a believer when we are convicted of sin and thus it is more than just carefully scripted language that fits the Biblical formula for salvation that affects anyone. The Lord chooses to use His Word along with the Spirit ( Romans 10:14) through the Great Commission to reach souls. There are instances where people read the Word and are convicted and come to conversion without a human agent directly involved in sharing scriptural truth; and reports of visions; dreams etc which have to be carefully evaluated. I believe it is possible for someone to recognize the Lord in someone even before sharing scripture. In any case the Lord does the work and receives all credit due.
Let me state what these facts are NOT.
1) Boasting in any way or through our attitudes displaying any air of superiority that we are saved; sanctified and delivered from the wrath to come. Christ Himself clearly came to serve and not to be served; and show the ultimate love sacrificing His life for His sheep ( Mark 10:45).
2) Working in our own strength to live out a life of righteousness or by merely following a confession or catechism or profession of faith.
It should be Christ in us that leads to true persecution and also draws people to Himself. It is not contention and strife merely to start an argument or get attention.
Thank you, brother, I agree, giving our understanding even if we do not agree cannot be offensive. My understanding of Scripture has grown from discussions we have here, I have benefitted from you, S Spencer, Chris, Giannis, GiGi, and others here. Many sites unless you say you follow the Nicene Creed you cannot even post.
I understand some Bible verses can support the Trinity doctrine. I can see where in John 10:33 it says they said Jesus blasphemed because "being a man, makest thyself, God". In John 10:22-42 they first asked Jesus "If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly" and Jesus said, "I told you, and ye believed not:". So, Jesus told them He was the Messiah, they did not even accept that, but they were not His sheep, because they did not hear His voice.
We see in John 17 that the Father gave Jesus power over all flesh to give eternal life so that they/us might know the only true God and Jesus Christ/the Messiah whom the Father sent. In John 10 Jesus continues saying His Father is greater than all and the works Jesus did were the Father's works, not His, and Jesus said this in John 14:28. Jesus said, "I and my Father are one". Jesus also said in John 17 "And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
John 10:34 Jesus quotes Psalms 82:6 where the judges of Israel who exercised the authority of God, are gods, gods here is the same Greek word in verses 33 and 36 where it is makest thyself God. In verse 36 Jesus rebukes them "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?"
What I see the works Jesus did were not His works, but the Father's works done through the Holy Spirit that Jesus was anointed with without measure. That is why Jesus said this, in John 14:17 and John 16:7.
I do thank you for discussing this with me, we can let it rest if you want to.
God bless,
RLW
MayI add my understanding of the word? The word Genesis given to the first book is given as 'in the beginning' with reference to the books of Moses collectively called the Pentateuch, a word of Greek origin meaning "the five-fold book. It refers to the everlasting covenant with everlasting life for the blessed and for those who rejected, everlasting punishment, The seven days are articles with regards to the day decreed for the Son.(Ps.2:7). Matthew 1:1 clearly states that the gospel is "The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham." This generation of Jesus covers the entire day decreed for him according to the covenant. So generations of Adam, Noah are all generations in context of Jesus Christ the same He.13:8 also Alpha Omega, the beginning and the ending.
It fits with the Pauline dictum. "And he is before all things, and by him all things consist."( Col.1:17)
"for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months."
Gentiles do not figure in the everlasting covenant between God and Man. He has called all for His blessings which we can narrowed down as applied to man who is created 'in our image and after our likeness" The latter therefore modifies the man as one who keeps the sayings of 'this book"(Re.22:9). He is man and has a spiritual ancillary which the term angel' denotes.
Two witnesses who preached are laid as witness to Jerusalem for a specific reason. "And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified."(11:8) City of Jerusalem is interchangeable with Sodom and Egypt or every other city that comes under the judgment of God. in Ze.1:16 we have it. "I am returned to Jerusalem with mercies: my house shall be built in it,... and a line shall be stretched forth upon Jerusalem."We have in Re.Ch.21 where a single measurement settles what is holy and what belongs to the Gentiles. The Gentiles are on the down side of the line. It is interchangeable with Sodom, Egypt and Babylon. Of the last we read thus: " Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication."(Re.14:8; It is Jerusalem, "And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus."(17:6).
There is no mention of nations either in the everlasting covenant. Blessedness therefore is covenanted with the man, "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours."(Re.14:12-13). The word as a voice and as a sign.The two witnesses are a sign.
"But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles:"
Notice that the angel is asking St John to measure the temple of God while in the vision of Ezekiel, "and, behold, there was a man, whose appearance was like the appearance of brass, with a line of flax in his hand, and a measuring reed;"(Ez.40:3). Who is the angel talking to John but a fellow servant? (" and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book"-Re.22:9). We find mention of one of the seven angels in the Ch.21. All these seven angels we saw here double as stars as in the inaugural vision of John (Re.1:20). So these angels are interchangeable since they keep the sayings of the book representing the revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave him.(Re.1:1). It is for these reason the two witnesses represented heaven and earth. Isaiah similar invoke them in the ch.1:2 " Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the Lord hath spoken," The two witnesses signify the word that God has spoken. Elijah, Elisha and all the prophets for the reason are stand-in for the Son. (He.1:1)
Since the stone was laid in Zion (Is.28:16) building program of the temple of God has been going on and God already had the saints that worship therein from heaven as well as from the earth. So where shall we look for the Gentiles? They are shown in Re.21: 22-24
Consider the tabernacle in the wilderness set is Up and Down as we see the Woman set on the moon in Re.12.
Most holy place refers to the thrones of God and of the Lamb.(Re.22:1)
Holy place refers to the city. "For the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof."
And the court refers to the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.(v.24).
This court is earmarked for the nations, -the Gentiles and Israel alike
The two she bears tearing the 42 gives us a tag Two signifying the same heaven and earth concordat. Two she bears as the Spirit has used there serves us to think of the Gentiles as those who stand athwart in the Salvation Plan of God. Korah and sons dared challenge the authority of Moses and of God; the case of Aarons sons also brought instant retribution. The two witnesses represent all the martyrs from Abel to the emergence of the beast. It goes past the rapture. "And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them."(Re.11:7).
In order to understand them the Spirit has laid down two numbers one of which are to be seen from the two groups from the vision of the Woman clothed with the Sun. God has prepared a place for the woman "they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days."(Re.12:6). It is to which Jesus referred and also lays down the only rule to be found there. "No man cometh unto the Father, but by me."( John 14:6). So the place prepared of God holds a tag 1260. This is set in days as the everlasting covenant is marked by day. Both are consistent with the day that God has appointed for his Son by a decree.(Ps.2:7)
Another tag is set in months. "for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months." Significance of month is also set by God. "This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you."(Ex.12:2). We come across this number in the life of Elisha who was jeered at for his baldness. Why would some children jeer him without a cause? The reason is simple. He is set in the God directive as a double for Jesus Christ. It is the holy angel who stands as witness before God in heaven. Jesus also quotes what the Psalmist had written beforehand."But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause. "( John 15:25;Ps.69:4)
2 Ki.2:23-24. Elisha was on the way to Bethel the house of God and those children of Belial are tagged as 42. They represented sons of perdition and we read that the authority of the beast is tagged by 42. ("and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months."-Re.13:5) The great dragon represents those who hated man-child. It is no brainer to think of the nation of Israel hated Jesus for the reason he came from God. "And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them."(v.24)
In Matthew 1:1 the scripture writes GENESEOS which means OF GENESIS. But in Matthew 1:18 it writes GENNESIS, with double "n", also the second "e" is written in grk with "eta", not "epsilon" as in GENESIS. It is not the same word. GENNESIS means birth . Also genesis which means origin or from the begining or creation from the beginning is often associated to birth. Those two different words which look almost the same confuse even grk people, many don't know the difference in meaning. GBU
(Part 2):
Secondly, I want to assure both you and Jaz that you have not and will not offend me by disagreeing with anything I say. Does it offend either of you when I disagree? It shouldn't! We all come here to share our understanding of scripture. Are we to expect that everything we say here will always be agreed upon by everyone? I would hope not. If we disagree, we just disagree. And that is okay. For me personally, I admit that there's always that possibility that I can be wrong. Not too many people will say this about themselves. I also think that even though we may disagree with each other on something, there is that possibility that we might both be wrong.
But no, I will never be offended if either of you (or anyone else for that matter) disagrees with me. If we're being rude to each other while disagreeing, that's a different story. But I'm only doing the same thing that you and everyone else here is doing which is sharing my understanding of what I've studied. We are human. None of us are infallible in our understanding. There will always be disagreement from someone no matter what we share. Not related to our discussion here, but years ago on a different website, I posted an exact quote from the Bible, nothing more, nothing less. I never even added my understanding, just quoted word for word a piece of scripture from the Bible. And guess what? Someone disagreed with it. Go figure!
Blessings to you both in Christ!