Prayer. The second thing which is repeatedly mentioned on my postings is the need for prayer. It wouldn't hurt (and i'm talking to myself here as well) to pray even before getting on this site and involving ourselves in discussion.
Emotions tend to rule the day with many issues that bring contention. It seems often questions about a topic are repeated and when answers are given the recipient should also pray about it before drawing conclusions; not to mention have a mind set against any responses that aren't what is palatable at the time. I'd much rather have a disagreement with someone who clearly loves the Lord and cares to respond to my prayer requests than someone who agrees and is rather detached from what's going on around them. That being said; I definitely feel I have been more needy in that regard and should be thinking of others more.
If we really care about others more than ourselves it is their well being along with the integrity of God's Word that motivates us.
We must trust God will show others the truth if indeed they are seeking it but misguided.
In general God's truth goes against the flesh; but our heavenly Father doesn't have to use intimidation tactics to control us. The healthy fear of the Lord; of course is the precedent for all true wisdom from above. His children are chastised but not destroyed.
Finally; in regard to the postings here I will state the obvious that we won't understand all the mysteries of God ( Deut. 29:29). There are many times however when a Greek word or other language can have multiple correct interpretations or meanings so it isn't necessarily right or wrong with translations. Some things from practical perspectives help; such as reading commentaries; carefully studying cross references and general patterns of scripture; cultural things at the time; etc. Let us all pray for wisdom; and edification and growth here and not unnecessary division. Some may walk away from God some remain.
"He that has seen me has seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?"
Trinity is not only God having three distinct personalities but also serve as the Word which Jesus demonstrate here with works. "Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works."(v.10)
In Psalm we have it and its practical application. " He sent his word, and healed them, and delivered them from their destructions."(Ps.107:20). In Bethesda Jesus told the man with palsy, "Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk./And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked." ( John 5:8-9) Before the worlds began he sent forth his word (Is.55:11). The same word Jesus proves at specific time and place works. When John in his Gospel speaks of the Word becoming flesh it is validation of Jesus as the Logos. The Word was God. ( John 1:1-2) So trinity has "our image" in the manner man has body, soul and spirit. All three work as one. While the Word is a sound it is a sign also. Since Jesus Christ serves as a sign from heaven, the same word of God can present as sign as Isaiah refers to him and his children as signs and wonders. (Is.8:18)
The same word in us as a seed is what the breath of God in us signifies. It is truth and it sanctifies us. that can only be by faith. It is what Jesus was driving at in this short colloquy with Philip. The words that Jesus spoke were those of his Father and he made them work. So Jesus commands the man with palsy and he was healed.
Man is created "After our image" so the bread from heaven and the word in us albeit as a seed holds similitude. Principle of Similitude sets heaven and earth on a single standard. The upper and lower in a millstone holds true. "And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone." (Re.18:21)
Blessings we counted in Seven days and these lead us to the Rest where God rested from his labours. "And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made."(Ge.2:3) What is the work of God that we may do? It is to believe in the Son whom he sent. "This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."( John 6:29)
This Rest is compared to the House which wisdom built and it has seven pillars (Pr.9:1) As with seven pillars it has seven foundations. God asks, "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding." ( Job 38:4) It is called Zion.The Tabernacle of God among men is his holy habitation. "His foundation is in the holy mountains./The Lord loveth the gates of Zion more than all the dwellings of Jacob./ Glorious things are spoken of thee, O city of God. Selah."(Ps.87:1-3). The everlasting covenant in seven days relate to seven pillars of this tabernacle where heaven earth and below are reconciled in Jesus Christ. "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him."(Col.1:16)
Blessing of the seventh day (Ge.2:1-3) is for who enters therein and it is by faith.
87:2. "All the dwellings of Jacob are same as Babylon, Philistia, and Tyre, with Ethiopia and all these are dwelling place for men. But of them God has counted those blessed who are born in Zion. "The Lord shall count, when he writeth up the people, that this man was born there."(87:6)
Gates of Zion signify salvation. "Lift up your heads, O ye gates; and be ye lift up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in."(Ps.24:7)
At this juncture I feel it is prudent to once again emphasize us being Bereans and reading scripture as a priority. On this forum I have tried to be fairly detailed and comprehensive with scripture references; at times lately I ask people to look things up to avoid sounding redundant. If one is to go beyond an opinion and discuss an opposing point of view then scriptures need to be referenced in order to debate an issue with any substance. I certainly am not going to state that I have all understanding of all implications of verses which upon interpretation could justify one or another point of view.
There are clear overarching themes and truths that can be verified in multiple references that render apparent contradictions as a sort of red herring.
There are some things that have cost me dearly in regard to friendships; especially lately in regard to a particular subject in scripture. I will refrain from mentioning it again although you are no doubt familiar with what I am talking about. Many things related to eschatology aren't necessarily as important; for instance. In general I think I can state that anyone even and especially within the professing church as a whole who holds out to the traditional understanding of scripture will have resistance even persecution. We need to ask ourseleves several questions here.
1. In regard to a matter is it edification; proper rebuke and in general concern for a brother or a number of people in a congregation that is our main goal or simply trying to prove a point or cause a controversy?
2. Is jealousy for His Word; His sanctuary and His presence overriding our decisions over majority consensus among men; whether believers or not?
3. Are we living righteously ourselves and not hypocritically?
4. Are we listening to all points of view with an open mind and heart?
5. Are we willing to count the cost and uphold truth
Power of the word of God, Fanakasibairo, is a world apart. Man writes books and one can read from cover to cover. When God has set His word in our hearts we are in a world which is everlasting to everlasting. Read with light of the Spirit and you will not get lost.
Ge.1:14-19 Forth day sets blessings on man as a sign. In Christ we are signs and wonders. The two great lights are signs for the holy city of God where the two worlds framed by the word of God have the throne of God and of the Lamb as signs. "to give light upon the earth,/And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness."((vv.17-18)
1:20-23 Fifth day as a blessing. God gives blessings in terms of man having a volume so he is a steward for other life forms. Man and ox, his livelihood is counted as one. So God commanded Moses, " If a man shall steal an ox, or a sheep, and kill it, or sell it; he shall restore five oxen for an ox,"(Ex.22:1) Nothing in the kingdom of God stands by itself. " Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ."(Gal.6:2)
1:24-30 Sixth day is a blessing for his inheritance in kingdom of light is that he is in 'our image and after our likeness. This explains the quote from Galatians. According to the law of Christ all the above mentioned blessing dwell in man from above and also from everlasting to everlasting. Up and Down and Across renders life of man incomplete without the fulness of God. As 'in our image' he carries his own load as well "Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification/For even Christ pleased not himself."(Ro.15:2-3). Instead what imposter churches do, divide their congregation on ethnic lines. These false shepherds serve the devil. God did not create him on such lines.
"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them./And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."
To the blessed God has the seventh day, and says, "enter thou into the joy of thy lord."
1:1 The heaven and the earth, two worlds framed by the Word which is God. we have been called blessing #1
1:2 "And the earth was without form, and void". We were entered in the book . "and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them."(Ps.139:16)
The Spirit of God working on 'the waters' implies 'Darkness as a cloak in which God dwells.' It gave us an understanding'. In Job we read it is compared to a "swaddling band' meaning God possessed our upkeep as though we were infants. The lack of it is mentioned in Ez.16:4 ( Job 38:9)
1:3-5 first day God separated light from darkness and set us for inheritance in light in Christ. This blessing #1 is added to us being part of the kingdom of his dear Son. Blessing is counted as the first day.
1:6-8 Blessing known as the second day: waters above the firmament is called mercy while waters below is called the grace. In his earthly ministry Jesus defined it thus, "My father worketh hitherto, and I work." ( John 5:17; Lam.3:22-23) We were called in the beginning in his Son and are kept by the grace of God.
1:9-13 The worlds framed by the word of God is the kingdom of God where the world made to appear has the dry land and the seas. The Earth abides forever because the world is called the kingdom of his dear Son.(Ec.1:4; Col.1:13). The command number Three applies to the Son. The day Three is a blessing. "And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas." Holy is his name. We are urged to be holy. "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:"(Ep.1:4)
Trees of righteousness in vv.11-12, "and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself" refer to the word of God which is truth and it sanctifies us. "Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth."( John 17:17)
"When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddling-band for it,/And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors,"
Power and Wisdom is fullness of God and it is the nature of God. Holiness is Person specific. When God says, "Be ye holy, for I am holy" it explains the St Paul quote, " For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell"(Col.1:19) we are battle ready so to speak. Full armour of God has a natural world to back it up. It is thus the sea signifies the saints redeemed from the power of darkness into the kingdom of his dear Son. "Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:/Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son."(Col.1:12-13). We have the cloud of witnesses and God so the woman clothed with the Sun gives our state as inheritors with Christ in light. Being confident that God has set bars and doors we walk by faith and not by sight. How we stay the course despite of the wiles of the enemy our middle state ought to assure, the battle is of God and nothing personal. All we need is faith and patience at every turn that God who made heaven and the earth is our fulness.
Science may explain the natural world and say all plants grow by photosynthesis. Millennia of terrestrial living tells that it is true. But recently it has been discovered that "dark oxygen' is being made at 13,000 feet below the ocean surface. God has a way in the depths of which we read " In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened."(Ge.7:11-12)the word of God speaks of the fountains of the deep and windows of heaven. Fulness of God sets bars and doors for His children, a secure place in moments of distress and peril.
The worlds of God framed by the word of God and of sinful man are two different gospels as Spirit of Christ and that of anti-christ are different. Paul had a thorn on his side and was aware of the battle he was up against. So the grace and truth of Christ had to win the battle for him.
Paul knew it was possible that as a man if he were to change his tune he himself would be accursed. So he warns, "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."(Gal.1:8)
Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in YOU, which was ALSO IN Jesus Christ:
Philippians 2:6 Christ being in the FORM of God, thought it not robbery to be EQUAL with God.
We are the IMAGE of God, NOT the FATHER GOD, we are heirs of our Father, as Christ is heir.
We INHERIT Son ship, being made ONE FLESH by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he had not only BROKEN the Sabbath, but said that God was his FATHER, making him EQUAL with God.
Is God your Father?
Are you EQUAL with God; or, are you THE FATHER?
Christ is not THE GOD, Christ is a god, a HEIR, and we joint HEIRS.
Psalms 136:2 O give thanks to the GOD of gods ......
John 17:21 That they maybe ONE; as thou, Father, art IN ME, that they may also be ONE, IN US, that the world may believe thou has sent me.
Ephesians 4:6 There is ONE BODY (Christ; and we, as one flesh. in Christ), and ONE SPIRIT (God, our Father)......
Ephesians 4:7 One Lord (and we as lords of our Lord), one faith (of Jesus Christ), one baptism (into the NAME or Jesus Christ)..... 2 Chronicles 7:14 ..... called by my name......
Ephesians 4:8 One God, and Father of ALL, who is above ALL, and through you ALL, and in you ALL.
Luke 2:51-52 And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart. 52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.
We must be so wary of getting ourselves entangled in the things of this life . In the Gospel of John we often read about Jesus judging us , humanity e.g. John 5-30 and John chapter 8 . But in Luke chapter 12 verse 14 , Jesus asks : Man , who made me a judge or a divider over you ? Why ? Why does Jesus refuse to judge this matter ? Read the previous verse , verse 13 and then verse 14 and 15 . These people were asking him to judge in a worldly matter , about possessions of this world , the things that pertain to the flesh and the lusts of it . Christ's judgements of us are spiritual judgements . He judges our hearts and he can do that perfectly because he can see straight into them . He's not interested in wordly things , the things of the flesh , he's interested in our hearts . So we all need to be careful that we don't allow the things of this world to take root in us , Christ is not of this world and we should be trying very hard to focus on the things that pertain to God and His Son and the Kingdom of God , not these kingdoms of men that are in fact kingdoms of death . That's all anyone who doesn't know the Truth has to look forward to . We are called out of this world , we are not to be a part of it , we have no inheritance in these kingdoms of men , just like the Levites in the land of Israel , Deuteronomy chapter 10 verses 1-5 , this is us ! We have no inheritance in this world and so we should shake the very dust of these kingdoms of men from off of our feet !
Thank you for your reply, many consider this subject non-discussable.
As for Luke 15 and 16, if one takes this as a real story that would mean when we die, we go to Hades, the saved go to the good side and the lost are in the flames. I am sorry I do not see that in Scripture, this chapter is parables given to the Pharisees and scribes for their murmuring and their unrighteous love of mammon/money and their neglect of the true riches.
I understand you and others do not believe we sleep in death until the resurrection. The Greek philosophy of the meaning of death is the separation of the soul from the body, and our soul is immortal which was introduced into the Roman Church this is not from Scripture our soul can die, Daniel 12:21 Thessalonians 4:14, and many more.
The word Godhead is in the KJV 3 times, three different Greek words meaning Divine, Divinity, and Deity changed to Godhead in the 16th Century, which can be misleading. My understanding is Jesus's victory was not won until God raised Jesus from death. "His soul was proclaiming the truth to the lost in hades" I suppose this is from 1 Peter 3:18-20, nowhere does this say Jesus was in Hades, these are people before the flood and it also says it was after He was quickened by the Spirit, so He was not in the grave.
Ephesians 4:8 Jesus led captivity captive that is those in captivity of sin captive to Himself, not OT saints from the grave. If the OT saints were resurrected when He was why would He leave David, Acts 2:29-34 the Firstfruits will not be raised until Jesus returns.
In John 8:28 "When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he" Matthew 27:50-54 is the fulfillment. Jesus was in and out of consciousness on the cross when He cried out the word resurrection is a Greek word meaning waking up, all the things in 51-53 happened when Jesus died, the saints did not go to heaven they went into Jerusalem and appeared to many.
One God, a unified one, Hebrew word "echad" used in Deut. 6:4-5 for the Shema and also for the oneness of Adam and Eve in Genesis 2. Who is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, distinct persons, but all co-equal, co-eternal, and equally God to the fullest.
In Scripture, especially the NT God is revealed by Jesus to be three distinct "persons" though one God, one Being, and one divine nature.
Jesus speaks of the Father and the Spirit in ways that show that each are distinct in their personal identity. He uses the terms he, we, him, us, you, yours, etc. He prays to the Father and says He and the Father send the Spirit to live in believers and in doing so, the Father and the Son also live in believers due to the unity of the three persons. There is only one God, not three, but this True God has three distinctions who possess attributes of personhood: consciousness, will, love, power, free agency, intellect and knowledge, among some. Each of the three persons are called God in the Scriptures, and each of the three persons are described in Scripture as having the same divine attributes.
This threeness is not as Modalist/Sabellianians state as one person acting in three different modes. The baptism of Jesus shows us that the Father, Son, and Spirit are distinct from one another and they were all three viewed in this singe event.
Nor is this threeness showing that there are three separate Gods, because they are distinct from each other, but always fully unified in the divine Being of God.
And there is not one God who is the Father, and Jesus His Son is a different person of a different order (human or demi-god), and the Holy Spirit is simply an impersonal power or force as Unitarians propose. As I have shown in my posts on God is Spirit and God is Savior and God is the Son, using Scripture, all three persons are personal, distinct, interactive with each other, and divine. Because I have cited Scripture for this in those posts, I am not going to repost them in this one. But I do urge people to be like Bereans and check out the Scripture reference I posted to see if what I have claimed is true.
There are a few brief points I would make to your inquiry.
There is no such thing as "soul sleep". This is clearly seen with the very real story of Lazarus and the rich man; but also could be pointed out from Christ's time in the grave where corruption could not overtake him as prophesied in David's Psalm someplace.
We also see that Jesus did indeed have the authority to teach in the synagogues with reasoning beyond His years causing men to marvel and He stated then that He was doing the "Fathers' business".
As a member of the Godhead Jesus was fully God and fully man but not in the same position and role as the Father. These exchanges of heavenly glory to be humbled as a man and then highly exalted were a blip in time of the timeless Creator; Jesus Himself. He was able to come out of eternity past; appear in one time and place in the destined role as substitutionary atonement and sacrifice; then enter back into eternal glory. All of His humbling was for our sake; He came and lived a perfect life trusting only in the Spirit which is the only way He could represent man; hence we in theory also ought to be perfect and sinless but of course none of us do. Then He had to die and take on the sin of men. His soul was at no point dead as the "it is finished" demonstrates the minute he breathed His last the victory was won. His soul was proclaiming the truth to the lost in hades after that and He also released the captives (souls) of the O.T. saints; also very much alive in the pleasant part of hades at the time along with the wicked who remain there until this day for the final judgment. Many at the time came out of their graves at the Resurrection as the "first of the firstfruits".
If God didn't through the Son overcome death we couldn't live eternally with Him in heaven. He bears the marks of His crucifixion and still appears more or less as He did when on earth in His resurrected body; but the fullness of glory brings the reaction in Rev. 1.
Jesus said I am the way "the truth and the life" in John 14:6
1 John 5:20 also speaks of us coming to the truth (God) and that we come to Truth (God) in Jesus.
1John 5:6 says that the Spirit is the truth
Go is TRUE, FAITHFUL, AND TRUSTWORTHY
Is. 65:16 says that God is the God of truth.
Heb. 6:18 says that God cannot lie.
Prov. 30:5 says that every word God speaks is true.
Ps 33:4 speaks of all of God's works are done in faithfulness and that all of His words are upright.
Mt. 22:16 speaks of Jesus as true and that He speaks what is true.
Rev. 21:5 says that the words spoken by God (Jesus) are trustworthy and true.
Rev. 19:11 says that Jesus is named Faithful and True.
We can trust as true all that God has chosen to be written in Scriptures because He is faithful and true in every way: in what he says, does and in Who He is. He will never lie or deceive us, never change from being righteous and true to being sinful and evil. He is forever our source of truth and He grants us to be enlightened by the Truth of Himself.
This is not to debate; If you do not want to answer, maybe someone else will, if not that's ok. How can it be said God who cannot die died for our sins? Does not Scripture say God did not give Himself but His only begotten Son? Jesus was the final and complete sacrifice for our sins, and the death of Christ as our substitute is the heart of the gospel.
When God formed the first Adam, He breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and Adam became a living soul/being, and without this breath/spirit of life that goes back to God when we die, whether we have done good or evil, we are a dead soul/being until we are resurrected and this is when we receive our reward whether to eternal life with Him or the second death in the lake of fire.
Jesus did not have any authority until His Father gave it to Him when Jesus was anointed with the Holy Spirit on the banks of the river Jordan. Jesus was given to die for us, Jesus was given power and authority, Jesus was given the Holy Spirit without measure, Jesus was given the words He said, all Jesus did was the will of the Father, not His. Jesus even said His Father was His God and His Father was greater than He.
If we say God died for our sins, do we make Jesus's sacrifice and death a charade, and not the truth because it is something God is incapable of doing, is to die.
God bless us and let His Spirit show us the truth regardless of the understanding we have now. Matthew 15:9 As Jesus said all things that the Father hath has been given to Him John 16:13-15.
The Psalm 84 is how our souls long for where flesh is steadily falling away and our confidences with it. "My heart and my flesh crieth out for the living God." This psalm appeals to a believer because it is promised to him no matter what his present circumstances are. " For a day in thy courts is better than a thousand. I had rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God, than to dwell in the tents of wickedness."(v.10) Our heart is like a door and Christ promised us his abiding presence. "if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me." (Re.3:20) "I in him and he in me" explains this bond. It is like Soul of Jonathan, "that the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul."(1 Sa.18:1). What a difference it was from King Saul towards David? He wanted him at the table so he could at any moment kill him. An unclean spirit had already taken hold of the king. So wisely the Spirit instructs us, " Eat thou not the bread of him that hath an evil eye, neither desire thou his dainty meats:/For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee."(Pr.23:6-7). Look around the world. The fixer who would take a bullet for his boss would rue that he ever came any closer to man whose unvarnished soul cared only for himself. The devil is like roaring lion walking about. Cursed is any man who would entangle with evil men.
"Offer the sacrifices of righteousness, and put your trust in the Lord./There be many that say, Who will shew us any good? Lord, lift thou up the light of thy countenance upon us./Thou hast put gladness in my heart, more than in the time that their corn and their wine increased."(Ps.4:5-7)
Christ cleansed us with his own blood."the Lord will give grace and glory: no good thing will he withhold from them that walk uprightly. O Lord of hosts, blessed is the man that trusteth in thee."
Fulness of Christ is like a seed in itself so 'thy word is truth' and indweiing Spirit helps you sprout and put out shoots leaves and fruits. Our abundance is not of ourselves but of his fulness. " I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing."( John 15:5). This is the tree of righteousness planted by the waters. (Ps.1:3) The tree is an emblem of heaven earth and lower parts becoming crystallised so we are bound to time and place yet we are on the right side of the river and of the tree of life.(Re.22:1)
We are also as Christ promised his apostles., "And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men." (Matt.4:19) We are like fishers in the vision of Ezekiel, " And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from Engedi even unto Eneglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many. "(Ez.47:10)
Instead what do we find prayer request a week ago in this forum but conspiracy theories insinuating 'this senile guy sniffing kids' and the prayer for Trump. For instance the shooter is not a lone wolf as evident in this, "I have been praying. And yes, it seems that there may be more to this than just the 20 year old shooter." It is what spirit of the times have made the simple spread lies under 'pious' statement. True believers ought to compare spiritual with spiritual and aid and abet the unrighteous. This strong delusion is from the spirit of the times.
Emotions tend to rule the day with many issues that bring contention. It seems often questions about a topic are repeated and when answers are given the recipient should also pray about it before drawing conclusions; not to mention have a mind set against any responses that aren't what is palatable at the time. I'd much rather have a disagreement with someone who clearly loves the Lord and cares to respond to my prayer requests than someone who agrees and is rather detached from what's going on around them. That being said; I definitely feel I have been more needy in that regard and should be thinking of others more.
If we really care about others more than ourselves it is their well being along with the integrity of God's Word that motivates us.
We must trust God will show others the truth if indeed they are seeking it but misguided.
In general God's truth goes against the flesh; but our heavenly Father doesn't have to use intimidation tactics to control us. The healthy fear of the Lord; of course is the precedent for all true wisdom from above. His children are chastised but not destroyed.
Finally; in regard to the postings here I will state the obvious that we won't understand all the mysteries of God ( Deut. 29:29). There are many times however when a Greek word or other language can have multiple correct interpretations or meanings so it isn't necessarily right or wrong with translations. Some things from practical perspectives help; such as reading commentaries; carefully studying cross references and general patterns of scripture; cultural things at the time; etc. Let us all pray for wisdom; and edification and growth here and not unnecessary division. Some may walk away from God some remain.
"He that has seen me has seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?"
Trinity is not only God having three distinct personalities but also serve as the Word which Jesus demonstrate here with works. "Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works."(v.10)
In Psalm we have it and its practical application. " He sent his word, and healed them, and delivered them from their destructions."(Ps.107:20). In Bethesda Jesus told the man with palsy, "Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk./And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked." ( John 5:8-9) Before the worlds began he sent forth his word (Is.55:11). The same word Jesus proves at specific time and place works. When John in his Gospel speaks of the Word becoming flesh it is validation of Jesus as the Logos. The Word was God. ( John 1:1-2) So trinity has "our image" in the manner man has body, soul and spirit. All three work as one. While the Word is a sound it is a sign also. Since Jesus Christ serves as a sign from heaven, the same word of God can present as sign as Isaiah refers to him and his children as signs and wonders. (Is.8:18)
The same word in us as a seed is what the breath of God in us signifies. It is truth and it sanctifies us. that can only be by faith. It is what Jesus was driving at in this short colloquy with Philip. The words that Jesus spoke were those of his Father and he made them work. So Jesus commands the man with palsy and he was healed.
Man is created "After our image" so the bread from heaven and the word in us albeit as a seed holds similitude. Principle of Similitude sets heaven and earth on a single standard. The upper and lower in a millstone holds true. "And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone." (Re.18:21)
Blessings we counted in Seven days and these lead us to the Rest where God rested from his labours. "And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made."(Ge.2:3) What is the work of God that we may do? It is to believe in the Son whom he sent. "This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."( John 6:29)
This Rest is compared to the House which wisdom built and it has seven pillars (Pr.9:1) As with seven pillars it has seven foundations. God asks, "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding." ( Job 38:4) It is called Zion.The Tabernacle of God among men is his holy habitation. "His foundation is in the holy mountains./The Lord loveth the gates of Zion more than all the dwellings of Jacob./ Glorious things are spoken of thee, O city of God. Selah."(Ps.87:1-3). The everlasting covenant in seven days relate to seven pillars of this tabernacle where heaven earth and below are reconciled in Jesus Christ. "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him."(Col.1:16)
Blessing of the seventh day (Ge.2:1-3) is for who enters therein and it is by faith.
87:2. "All the dwellings of Jacob are same as Babylon, Philistia, and Tyre, with Ethiopia and all these are dwelling place for men. But of them God has counted those blessed who are born in Zion. "The Lord shall count, when he writeth up the people, that this man was born there."(87:6)
Gates of Zion signify salvation. "Lift up your heads, O ye gates; and be ye lift up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in."(Ps.24:7)
At this juncture I feel it is prudent to once again emphasize us being Bereans and reading scripture as a priority. On this forum I have tried to be fairly detailed and comprehensive with scripture references; at times lately I ask people to look things up to avoid sounding redundant. If one is to go beyond an opinion and discuss an opposing point of view then scriptures need to be referenced in order to debate an issue with any substance. I certainly am not going to state that I have all understanding of all implications of verses which upon interpretation could justify one or another point of view.
There are clear overarching themes and truths that can be verified in multiple references that render apparent contradictions as a sort of red herring.
There are some things that have cost me dearly in regard to friendships; especially lately in regard to a particular subject in scripture. I will refrain from mentioning it again although you are no doubt familiar with what I am talking about. Many things related to eschatology aren't necessarily as important; for instance. In general I think I can state that anyone even and especially within the professing church as a whole who holds out to the traditional understanding of scripture will have resistance even persecution. We need to ask ourseleves several questions here.
1. In regard to a matter is it edification; proper rebuke and in general concern for a brother or a number of people in a congregation that is our main goal or simply trying to prove a point or cause a controversy?
2. Is jealousy for His Word; His sanctuary and His presence overriding our decisions over majority consensus among men; whether believers or not?
3. Are we living righteously ourselves and not hypocritically?
4. Are we listening to all points of view with an open mind and heart?
5. Are we willing to count the cost and uphold truth
6. Will we harbor bitterness in our hearts?
Ge.1:14-19 Forth day sets blessings on man as a sign. In Christ we are signs and wonders. The two great lights are signs for the holy city of God where the two worlds framed by the word of God have the throne of God and of the Lamb as signs. "to give light upon the earth,/And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness."((vv.17-18)
1:20-23 Fifth day as a blessing. God gives blessings in terms of man having a volume so he is a steward for other life forms. Man and ox, his livelihood is counted as one. So God commanded Moses, " If a man shall steal an ox, or a sheep, and kill it, or sell it; he shall restore five oxen for an ox,"(Ex.22:1) Nothing in the kingdom of God stands by itself. " Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ."(Gal.6:2)
1:24-30 Sixth day is a blessing for his inheritance in kingdom of light is that he is in 'our image and after our likeness. This explains the quote from Galatians. According to the law of Christ all the above mentioned blessing dwell in man from above and also from everlasting to everlasting. Up and Down and Across renders life of man incomplete without the fulness of God. As 'in our image' he carries his own load as well "Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification/For even Christ pleased not himself."(Ro.15:2-3). Instead what imposter churches do, divide their congregation on ethnic lines. These false shepherds serve the devil. God did not create him on such lines.
"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them./And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."
To the blessed God has the seventh day, and says, "enter thou into the joy of thy lord."
1:1 The heaven and the earth, two worlds framed by the Word which is God. we have been called blessing #1
1:2 "And the earth was without form, and void". We were entered in the book . "and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them."(Ps.139:16)
The Spirit of God working on 'the waters' implies 'Darkness as a cloak in which God dwells.' It gave us an understanding'. In Job we read it is compared to a "swaddling band' meaning God possessed our upkeep as though we were infants. The lack of it is mentioned in Ez.16:4 ( Job 38:9)
1:3-5 first day God separated light from darkness and set us for inheritance in light in Christ. This blessing #1 is added to us being part of the kingdom of his dear Son. Blessing is counted as the first day.
1:6-8 Blessing known as the second day: waters above the firmament is called mercy while waters below is called the grace. In his earthly ministry Jesus defined it thus, "My father worketh hitherto, and I work." ( John 5:17; Lam.3:22-23) We were called in the beginning in his Son and are kept by the grace of God.
1:9-13 The worlds framed by the word of God is the kingdom of God where the world made to appear has the dry land and the seas. The Earth abides forever because the world is called the kingdom of his dear Son.(Ec.1:4; Col.1:13). The command number Three applies to the Son. The day Three is a blessing. "And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas." Holy is his name. We are urged to be holy. "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:"(Ep.1:4)
Trees of righteousness in vv.11-12, "and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself" refer to the word of God which is truth and it sanctifies us. "Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth."( John 17:17)
"When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddling-band for it,/And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors,"
Power and Wisdom is fullness of God and it is the nature of God. Holiness is Person specific. When God says, "Be ye holy, for I am holy" it explains the St Paul quote, " For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell"(Col.1:19) we are battle ready so to speak. Full armour of God has a natural world to back it up. It is thus the sea signifies the saints redeemed from the power of darkness into the kingdom of his dear Son. "Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:/Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son."(Col.1:12-13). We have the cloud of witnesses and God so the woman clothed with the Sun gives our state as inheritors with Christ in light. Being confident that God has set bars and doors we walk by faith and not by sight. How we stay the course despite of the wiles of the enemy our middle state ought to assure, the battle is of God and nothing personal. All we need is faith and patience at every turn that God who made heaven and the earth is our fulness.
Science may explain the natural world and say all plants grow by photosynthesis. Millennia of terrestrial living tells that it is true. But recently it has been discovered that "dark oxygen' is being made at 13,000 feet below the ocean surface. God has a way in the depths of which we read " In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened."(Ge.7:11-12)the word of God speaks of the fountains of the deep and windows of heaven. Fulness of God sets bars and doors for His children, a secure place in moments of distress and peril.
The worlds of God framed by the word of God and of sinful man are two different gospels as Spirit of Christ and that of anti-christ are different. Paul had a thorn on his side and was aware of the battle he was up against. So the grace and truth of Christ had to win the battle for him.
Paul knew it was possible that as a man if he were to change his tune he himself would be accursed. So he warns, "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."(Gal.1:8)
King David was flesh and blood, therefore he is in the grave, dust to dust.
Acts 2:29-34
King David, the NEW CREATION, by the resurrection of Christ, is now in the presence of God, being made ONE FLESH, by the resurrection of Christ.
1 Corinthians 15:53 ... this mortal shall PUT ON IMMORTALITY ......
1 Timothy 6:16 ...... Christ ONLY hath IMMORTALITY, dwelling in the light ......
2 Corinthians 3:18 But we all...... are CHANGED into the same IMAGE .... even so by the Spirit of God.
John 11:25 ..... Christ is the RESURRECTION .......
God Bless You
Perhaps the problem is your being ORDAIN into institutionalize ministry?
Man does not reach or understand the kingdom of God?
Do you understand the kingdom of God?
Maybe it is the angels of God causing you all this trouble, trying to keep you from going down the path of institutionalized religion.
It is a kingdom, not religion.
God Bless You
Philippians 2:6 Christ being in the FORM of God, thought it not robbery to be EQUAL with God.
We are the IMAGE of God, NOT the FATHER GOD, we are heirs of our Father, as Christ is heir.
We INHERIT Son ship, being made ONE FLESH by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he had not only BROKEN the Sabbath, but said that God was his FATHER, making him EQUAL with God.
Is God your Father?
Are you EQUAL with God; or, are you THE FATHER?
Christ is not THE GOD, Christ is a god, a HEIR, and we joint HEIRS.
Psalms 136:2 O give thanks to the GOD of gods ......
John 17:21 That they maybe ONE; as thou, Father, art IN ME, that they may also be ONE, IN US, that the world may believe thou has sent me.
Ephesians 4:6 There is ONE BODY (Christ; and we, as one flesh. in Christ), and ONE SPIRIT (God, our Father)......
Ephesians 4:7 One Lord (and we as lords of our Lord), one faith (of Jesus Christ), one baptism (into the NAME or Jesus Christ)..... 2 Chronicles 7:14 ..... called by my name......
Ephesians 4:8 One God, and Father of ALL, who is above ALL, and through you ALL, and in you ALL.
God Bless You
Today we see worldliness infiltrate the church in so many ways.
That is something I have mentioned before on this site and recently have been meaning to post on it again.
However, the timing hasn't been right.
It's funny you brought that up because was preparing to do it today but I will put it on the shelf until I can buy some time.
Blessings.
Luke 2:51-52 And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart. 52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.
God bless,
RLW
Thank you for your reply, many consider this subject non-discussable.
As for Luke 15 and 16, if one takes this as a real story that would mean when we die, we go to Hades, the saved go to the good side and the lost are in the flames. I am sorry I do not see that in Scripture, this chapter is parables given to the Pharisees and scribes for their murmuring and their unrighteous love of mammon/money and their neglect of the true riches.
I understand you and others do not believe we sleep in death until the resurrection. The Greek philosophy of the meaning of death is the separation of the soul from the body, and our soul is immortal which was introduced into the Roman Church this is not from Scripture our soul can die, Daniel 12:2 1 Thessalonians 4:14, and many more.
The word Godhead is in the KJV 3 times, three different Greek words meaning Divine, Divinity, and Deity changed to Godhead in the 16th Century, which can be misleading. My understanding is Jesus's victory was not won until God raised Jesus from death. "His soul was proclaiming the truth to the lost in hades" I suppose this is from 1 Peter 3:18-20, nowhere does this say Jesus was in Hades, these are people before the flood and it also says it was after He was quickened by the Spirit, so He was not in the grave.
Ephesians 4:8 Jesus led captivity captive that is those in captivity of sin captive to Himself, not OT saints from the grave. If the OT saints were resurrected when He was why would He leave David, Acts 2:29-34 the Firstfruits will not be raised until Jesus returns.
In John 8:28 "When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he" Matthew 27:50-54 is the fulfillment. Jesus was in and out of consciousness on the cross when He cried out the word resurrection is a Greek word meaning waking up, all the things in 51-53 happened when Jesus died, the saints did not go to heaven they went into Jerusalem and appeared to many.
God bless,
RLW
One God, a unified one, Hebrew word "echad" used in Deut. 6:4-5 for the Shema and also for the oneness of Adam and Eve in Genesis 2. Who is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, distinct persons, but all co-equal, co-eternal, and equally God to the fullest.
Amen! One God consisting of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Coequal and Coeternal
In Scripture, especially the NT God is revealed by Jesus to be three distinct "persons" though one God, one Being, and one divine nature.
Jesus speaks of the Father and the Spirit in ways that show that each are distinct in their personal identity. He uses the terms he, we, him, us, you, yours, etc. He prays to the Father and says He and the Father send the Spirit to live in believers and in doing so, the Father and the Son also live in believers due to the unity of the three persons. There is only one God, not three, but this True God has three distinctions who possess attributes of personhood: consciousness, will, love, power, free agency, intellect and knowledge, among some. Each of the three persons are called God in the Scriptures, and each of the three persons are described in Scripture as having the same divine attributes.
This threeness is not as Modalist/Sabellianians state as one person acting in three different modes. The baptism of Jesus shows us that the Father, Son, and Spirit are distinct from one another and they were all three viewed in this singe event.
Nor is this threeness showing that there are three separate Gods, because they are distinct from each other, but always fully unified in the divine Being of God.
And there is not one God who is the Father, and Jesus His Son is a different person of a different order (human or demi-god), and the Holy Spirit is simply an impersonal power or force as Unitarians propose. As I have shown in my posts on God is Spirit and God is Savior and God is the Son, using Scripture, all three persons are personal, distinct, interactive with each other, and divine. Because I have cited Scripture for this in those posts, I am not going to repost them in this one. But I do urge people to be like Bereans and check out the Scripture reference I posted to see if what I have claimed is true.
There is no such thing as "soul sleep". This is clearly seen with the very real story of Lazarus and the rich man; but also could be pointed out from Christ's time in the grave where corruption could not overtake him as prophesied in David's Psalm someplace.
We also see that Jesus did indeed have the authority to teach in the synagogues with reasoning beyond His years causing men to marvel and He stated then that He was doing the "Fathers' business".
As a member of the Godhead Jesus was fully God and fully man but not in the same position and role as the Father. These exchanges of heavenly glory to be humbled as a man and then highly exalted were a blip in time of the timeless Creator; Jesus Himself. He was able to come out of eternity past; appear in one time and place in the destined role as substitutionary atonement and sacrifice; then enter back into eternal glory. All of His humbling was for our sake; He came and lived a perfect life trusting only in the Spirit which is the only way He could represent man; hence we in theory also ought to be perfect and sinless but of course none of us do. Then He had to die and take on the sin of men. His soul was at no point dead as the "it is finished" demonstrates the minute he breathed His last the victory was won. His soul was proclaiming the truth to the lost in hades after that and He also released the captives (souls) of the O.T. saints; also very much alive in the pleasant part of hades at the time along with the wicked who remain there until this day for the final judgment. Many at the time came out of their graves at the Resurrection as the "first of the firstfruits".
If God didn't through the Son overcome death we couldn't live eternally with Him in heaven. He bears the marks of His crucifixion and still appears more or less as He did when on earth in His resurrected body; but the fullness of glory brings the reaction in Rev. 1.
Jesus said I am the way "the truth and the life" in John 14:6
1 John 5:20 also speaks of us coming to the truth (God) and that we come to Truth (God) in Jesus.
1John 5:6 says that the Spirit is the truth
Go is TRUE, FAITHFUL, AND TRUSTWORTHY
Is. 65:16 says that God is the God of truth.
Heb. 6:18 says that God cannot lie.
Prov. 30:5 says that every word God speaks is true.
Ps 33:4 speaks of all of God's works are done in faithfulness and that all of His words are upright.
Mt. 22:16 speaks of Jesus as true and that He speaks what is true.
Rev. 21:5 says that the words spoken by God (Jesus) are trustworthy and true.
Rev. 19:11 says that Jesus is named Faithful and True.
We can trust as true all that God has chosen to be written in Scriptures because He is faithful and true in every way: in what he says, does and in Who He is. He will never lie or deceive us, never change from being righteous and true to being sinful and evil. He is forever our source of truth and He grants us to be enlightened by the Truth of Himself.
This is not to debate; If you do not want to answer, maybe someone else will, if not that's ok. How can it be said God who cannot die died for our sins? Does not Scripture say God did not give Himself but His only begotten Son? Jesus was the final and complete sacrifice for our sins, and the death of Christ as our substitute is the heart of the gospel.
When God formed the first Adam, He breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and Adam became a living soul/being, and without this breath/spirit of life that goes back to God when we die, whether we have done good or evil, we are a dead soul/being until we are resurrected and this is when we receive our reward whether to eternal life with Him or the second death in the lake of fire.
Jesus did not have any authority until His Father gave it to Him when Jesus was anointed with the Holy Spirit on the banks of the river Jordan. Jesus was given to die for us, Jesus was given power and authority, Jesus was given the Holy Spirit without measure, Jesus was given the words He said, all Jesus did was the will of the Father, not His. Jesus even said His Father was His God and His Father was greater than He.
If we say God died for our sins, do we make Jesus's sacrifice and death a charade, and not the truth because it is something God is incapable of doing, is to die.
God bless us and let His Spirit show us the truth regardless of the understanding we have now. Matthew 15:9 As Jesus said all things that the Father hath has been given to Him John 16:13-15.
RLW
The Psalm 84 is how our souls long for where flesh is steadily falling away and our confidences with it. "My heart and my flesh crieth out for the living God." This psalm appeals to a believer because it is promised to him no matter what his present circumstances are. " For a day in thy courts is better than a thousand. I had rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God, than to dwell in the tents of wickedness."(v.10) Our heart is like a door and Christ promised us his abiding presence. "if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me." (Re.3:20) "I in him and he in me" explains this bond. It is like Soul of Jonathan, "that the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul."(1 Sa.18:1). What a difference it was from King Saul towards David? He wanted him at the table so he could at any moment kill him. An unclean spirit had already taken hold of the king. So wisely the Spirit instructs us, " Eat thou not the bread of him that hath an evil eye, neither desire thou his dainty meats:/For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee."(Pr.23:6-7). Look around the world. The fixer who would take a bullet for his boss would rue that he ever came any closer to man whose unvarnished soul cared only for himself. The devil is like roaring lion walking about. Cursed is any man who would entangle with evil men.
"Offer the sacrifices of righteousness, and put your trust in the Lord./There be many that say, Who will shew us any good? Lord, lift thou up the light of thy countenance upon us./Thou hast put gladness in my heart, more than in the time that their corn and their wine increased."(Ps.4:5-7)
Christ cleansed us with his own blood."the Lord will give grace and glory: no good thing will he withhold from them that walk uprightly. O Lord of hosts, blessed is the man that trusteth in thee."
Fulness of Christ is like a seed in itself so 'thy word is truth' and indweiing Spirit helps you sprout and put out shoots leaves and fruits. Our abundance is not of ourselves but of his fulness. " I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing."( John 15:5). This is the tree of righteousness planted by the waters. (Ps.1:3) The tree is an emblem of heaven earth and lower parts becoming crystallised so we are bound to time and place yet we are on the right side of the river and of the tree of life.(Re.22:1)
We are also as Christ promised his apostles., "And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men." (Matt.4:19) We are like fishers in the vision of Ezekiel, " And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from Engedi even unto Eneglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many. "(Ez.47:10)
Instead what do we find prayer request a week ago in this forum but conspiracy theories insinuating 'this senile guy sniffing kids' and the prayer for Trump. For instance the shooter is not a lone wolf as evident in this, "I have been praying. And yes, it seems that there may be more to this than just the 20 year old shooter." It is what spirit of the times have made the simple spread lies under 'pious' statement. True believers ought to compare spiritual with spiritual and aid and abet the unrighteous. This strong delusion is from the spirit of the times.