I shared with you that Hebrews through Revelation is known as the Jewish Literature Section of the Bible. As we go through the Jewish literature, it becomes more intense the further we get into the Jewish literature section. Hebrews was pretty general. James started to become more specific. 1 Peter was pretty intense and urgent.
But now as we get into 1 John, we're going to get into a book that many pastors like to stay out of because John presents not only the true doctrine of Jesus Christ for his day, but he also provides a checklist if you will, a series of tests where a person can know whether they're really saved or not.
And John is not "wishy-washy." He doesn't present any gray areas. He's considered to be a polemic writer, very controversial. He wouldn't be somebody that you would want to invite to your church to speak because he's not going to mince words. He's going to give his presentation and say here's the truth, and you can say that you are saved, but if you don't measure up to the truth then you're not saved. It's as simple as that!
And so, these letters become more and more intense, ending up with the book of Revelation which is very intense, the judgment of God.
There much truth in what you counsel, my thoughts were in the work of regeneration unto perfection, I would say yes to the thief situation, but to the jailer situation, he would have to work out his salvation, now that he 'first believed" Lydia was already a godly person, mayber just needed to hear more perfectly the gospel. I notice in my own journey, that the brighter the path becomes, the more light I received in understanding the darkness of our old Adamic nature. the little foxes spoil the vine. Song of Solomon 2:15
In grk those words are called synonyms. They are different words with the same meaning. ie church(ekklesia), synagogue(synagoge), congregation(synaxis), they mean the same, a gathering. The anc grks used them to express the same thing. Later, the church was used for the christian congregation and synagogue for the Jewish one. Today in some churches, the word church means the building where christians gather.
Now as I said to GiGi the respective word for gospel in grk (evangelion) actually means good message/news (in ancient greek). Any good message, not only the good news of salvation. The grk for gospel (evangelion) is a very ancient word. It first appears in Homer's poem, the "Iliad" in the 8th centuary BC, for the good message of a victory in a battle, also for the price given to him who brings the good news, or even the sacrifice that was offered to Gods for their support in a victory. In Roman times evangelion(gospel) was any good news from or about the Emperor. So it was not used just for Jesus' gospel. And with this meaning we should apply it in Heb 4:2. If we look it up in other Eng. translations, we find out that all of them translate it more or less as "good news spoken", I can not figure out why the KJV translaters prefered the phrase "gospel preached". Maybe there was no difference at that time. Maybe they really thought that it was Christ's gospel that was spoken to Hebrews, although the context of that chapter does not give that impression.
I need $700 deposit to move into new apartment. I thought I had the money but made a grace error after reading my lease agreement. Totally my error but I gave my 30 days and I have a new place to move to but need the deposit. I feel sick. I am a grandmother raising a 4 year old. I am also a 3rd grade teacher. We start school on the 16th. All this is happening and I'm starting school. Then the school hit say with a zinger instead of getting paid on the last Friday of the month like usual we are getting paid the 31st? The money situation is further hurting me. I feel sick. I need help. If I end up on the street I look unfit to raise my granddaughter. Please help me. Pray for God's mercy. Pray I come up with the deposit and people to help me move. Please pray my current and future landlords work with me. Help. -k Jones
I desire to be submissive, & remain teachable, let take a look at one of your statement of belief.
You spoke to Ronald, & previously stating this many time as I recall
We get our understanding of the Bible from the Bible itself. The Bible alone and its entirety is the Word of God and must be our only Authority.
Ok, this is your faith, not mind, you know where I STAND ON THIS ISSUE, saying that Luke 1:6 they were not blameless. When the Scripture of Truth says plainly "walking in all the commandments & ordinances of the Lord blameless". along with the rest of the Scriptures that I've quoted concerning this, even giving you concordance reference which you use to understand the words of God. David, you don't even believe your own faith & your calling God a liar & you expect me to give heed to counsel such as this?
I could go on refuting you soundly with the Scriptures & sound reasoning, but considering our past conversations, what would be the purpose?
Souls are at stake here, whom Jesus suffer & paid the ultimate price for & God will judge His people Ecclesiastes 5:2,3
David,,,,,,, as Keith Green song says, Your heart is hard (& is hardening ) & your prayers are cold, so where will you go from here?
"separate themselves" means they separate themselves and those who follow them from the rest of the church. "Makers of sectes" or "cause divisions" say the same thing.
I am so sorry to hear of your wife's request. I will certainly pray for you, her and your marriage.
Dear Heavenly Father, this marriage is in such trouble right now so we ask that You will step in and stop this divorce from occurring and bring back to both partners the love they had for one another at the start. We ask that You bring this wife to you inn faith in Your Son, Jesus. Restore this marriage to be better than it has ever been and continue to bless these two with love, faithfulness, compassion, servanthood, and graciousness to forgive one another from the heart. Father, bring honor to your holy name in this situation and comfort to these two who are in a painful time in their relationship. Comfort and heal hearts, minds, and each person in this family. We ask these things of You, Father, in the name of Jesus. Amen.
Sometimes salvation is an instant process like with that guard in Philippi and Lydia or the thief on the cross, but sometimes it takes time for one to get their heart in a condition of repentance.
But there is a diference between been saved and get perfected. Once we are saved by believing in Christ we start our course of sanctification. We are not perfect when we are saved, we still have our weaknesses, pasions, our bad character, etc. And now we strive, with the aid of the Spirit, to get rid the old sinful man and dress up the new man in Christ. This procedure takes time, a whole lifetime actually. And there is always the danger of getting out of that course. Maybe what you want to say is that the salvation we were given at first is not secured untill the end of our course in life.GBU
when one rejects Light/Truth no matter what stage of growth one attain too,
they began to wither, darkness covers the eyes of one understanding & the ear become dull of hearing. Their love becomes cold
One's knowledge becomes tainted, their faith feign & if continue in becomes vain.
The thing about deception is, one doesn't know when one has or is being deceived.
Satan uses all his power, in signs & lying wonders with all deceivableness of unrighteous to deceive &
By the way all you who's knowledge is by the letter & book learning, being persuaded that your in the Spirit, your deceived. Only the Spirit can interpret the Scriptures for they are spiritually discerned. & any spirit that tells you otherwise is the spirit of the antichrist. The word power there in 2 Thess 2:9 is the same word power that used in Act 1:8
Satan has No lack of power to deceive.
God in His great love for us gives us Light, that appears to all mankind, whereby we may come out of this deception
To love the Truth more than ourselves, it is a gift from God 2 Thess 2:10 by receiving a love for the Truth. Fulfill the greatest commandment & the second likewise.
Don't allow Satan to cause God to send you strong delusions causing you believe a lie. Be still, become truthful with yourselves. I have, with the good, the bad & the very ugly in my past & God has rewarded me according to the simplicity & integrity of my heart towards Him & my fellow human being & is presently turning my once stony heart into a heart of flesh, enabling me to receive Him daily in everyday ordinary life experiences. Pick up the Cross, follow the Spirit as William Penn said, in the NT only the obedient eat the good of this land. John 14:15
Hi David, I don't know what you and your family may be going through, but I pray that you will be encouraged to continually seek God. I pray that you will trust and have faith that God is with you and your family, may God give you strength and peace and may you remember the word of God tells us in Ephesians 3 verse 20, now unto him that is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we can ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us. I pray that whatever the situation, you will place it before God.
The problems of the U.S. and the entire world are not political, I believe they are spiritual. Unless genuine repentance occurs, the disastrous decline will in all likelihood continue.
Romans 14:11 "For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God."
10 Now will I rise, saith the Lord; now will I be exalted; now will I lift up myself.
11 Ye shall conceive chaff, ye shall bring forth stubble: your breath, as fire, shall devour you.
12 And the people shall be as the burnings of lime: as thorns cut up shall they be burned in the fire.
13 Hear, ye that are far off(the Gentiles peoples), what I have done; and, ye that are near (the Jews, the clay), acknowledge my might.
14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us SHALL DWELL with the devouring fire? who among us SHALL DWELL with everlasting burnings?
1 CORINTHIANS 3:13-15KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
***This comment was inadvertently posted in the wrong thread. I have deleted that comment and am now reposting in the correct thread***
Chris,
Please see my response to what I thought was your last. And with which I agree regarding our disparate beliefs.
In this comment you are suggesting that Romans 3 is "only addressed" to those in Rome. Not true! While it is written to the Church in Rome addressing perhaps their misunderstanding of Mankind's condition, it, like the entire Bible, is written and addressed to all Mankind. And that statement is a statement of Mankind's condition, without exception, that has existed ever since Adam's first Sin of disobedience to God 's Law. That apart from God's Mercy in Salvation as He applies that Salvation to our life in making us Born Again, we are Spiritually Dead and in Bondage to Sin and Satan. And none of Mankind has any "inherent faith" that is pleasing to God and can result in Salvation.
To say it very plainly, you and I understand Salvation and the nature of the Bible quite differently.
I do not agree that the Bible teaches what you are suggesting regarding the Nature of the Godhead and the deity of the LORD Jesus Christ. The verses that I quoted speak for themselves very clearly. Every verse that you quote is absolutely true, but must be interpreted in the light of every verse in the Bible that relates. And when it comes to the Nature of God Himself we will never come to a complete understanding in our finite minds.
Most seriously though, and I am very certain of this, if we are following a gospel where Christ is not Eternal God Himself, then we have no Savior and we are still in our sins. But as long as we have the breath of life there is hope that God might open our spiritual eyes and lead us into Truth.
I have no more to say on the matter and so will leave it there.
Thank you for this discussion and may the LORD Richly Bless You.
We are only "blameless" if Christ has paid for our sins and we have become Born Again. Then the Righteousness of Christ is imputed to us and we no longer stand guilty before the Law of God. No saved person will ever become "blameless" or "faultless" while living in their fleshly body.
When we become Born Again, God does give us a New Resurrected Soul which, in itself, cannot sin. But that Soul still resides in a Body that has not been "saved" and still lusts after sin. And so, while every True Believer will have an earnest ongoing desire to be obedient to the Law of God and will continue to Grow in Grace, they will never attain a state of Sinless Perfection in regard to keeping the Law of God. Hence the Apostle Paul's statement "the good that I would I do not; but the evil that I would not, that I do."
At the Last Day when all True Believers will be Resurrected / Raptured, they will receive their Resurrected Spiritual Bodies. At that time every True Believer will become Sinless in their whole personality and will live and reign with Christ in that state throughout Eternity in the New Heavens and New Earth.
From reading this and some of your other comments, you seem to have an incorrect understanding regarding the Nature of Salvation. I do pray that God might lead us both into Truth as we search the scriptures.
But thank you for you comment. And may the LORD richly bless you.
you say the law of Moses was there condemnation, yes indeed; to those who did not obey it, but what is it to those who do, but there glory, in the measure that God was please to reveal of His Grace which was freely given under the OT gospel
As many as have sinned without law(THE GENTILES) shall also PERISH without law: and as many as have sinned in the law(THE JEWS EXCLUSIVELY) shall be JUDGED by the law;
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the Day of wrath (the Lord's Day, the seventh and last Day) and revelation of the righteous Judgment of GOD;
6 Who will render to every MAN according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, ETERNAL LIFE:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the Truth, but obey unrighteousness, INDIGNATION AND WRATH,
9 TRIBULATION AND ANGUISH (from now on, the beginning of sorrows-Matt.24:3-8), upon EVERY SOUL of man that doeth evil, of the Jew FIRST, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew FIRST, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with GOD.
12 For as many as have sinned WITHOUT LAW (THE GENTILES) shall also PERISH without LAW; and as many as have sinned in the LAW(THE JEWS) shall be JUDGED by the LAW;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before GOD, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the GENTILES, which HAVE NOT THE LAW, do by nature the things contained in the LAW, these, having NOT the LAW, are a LAW unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the LAW written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
16 In this Day(the Lord's Day, this seventh and last Day) when GOD shall Judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to MY GOSPEL. (TRIBULATION AND ANGUISH (from now on, the beginning of sorrows-Matt.24:3-8), upon EVERY SOUL of man that doeth evil, of the Jew FIRST, and also of the Gentile;
The cleansing offer here, is from the evil one, who rules in the old Adamic nature, the first birth.
The dead works are by Satan influence upon hearts & minds, thus we yielding our member unto unrighteousness Rom 6:16
The law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus is obedience to the Spirit. Rom 8:14
Hebrews 10:5-10
The nature of the Salvation that Christ offer was to rid us of sin. John 1:29 "ONCE & FOR ALL".
Bring us to a life of obedience, by the Spirit through the new birth 1Pet 1:2
Hebrews 10:14-18 Where the remission of these are, there is no more offering for sin.
& why, as stated in v 16,17 , the expression here is they that are sanctified, by obedience to His holy will & are made perfect, they sin no more. Christ being formed in the heart by God writing His Commandment on the tablet of our heart & placing His fear there Jeremiah 32:40
Hebrews 10:26-31
If we sin willfully after receiving the knowledge of the Truth, the Grace of God that appears to all mankind Titus 2:11-13
When He appears in Spirit teaching us to discern between Good & evil & we repent with godly sorrow, remission of whatsoever sin is granted, except blasphemy of Holy Spirit. The Blood of Jesus cleanses us of the sin itself & from the influence of the evil one, that we're not to continue in it any longer or we're troddening under foot the Son of God, counting the Blood/Life of Jesus, the Covenant, an unholy thing & doing despite to the Spirit of Grace, turning Grace into lasciviousness & wantonness.
Folks, this is the true gospel, that has the living Power of God to save unto the uttermost to all that come to Him by faith, His spiritual appearance within our heart / conscience, "The still small Voice". The letter of either covenant cannot reach here, the letter is knowledge, a form of godliness without the Power of His Life/Spirit, & yet it was given unto us as a Witness & Points to the Spirit by which all the saints in the Scriptures were taught, led & saved by.
A personal testimony
Its not an instance salvation, as taught today's in Babylon's Christianity, describe in Rev 17; Mystery Babylon, but is reveal by the Spirit in Philippians 2:12 Rom13:3 1Pet 1:5-9 as a work in progress after we first believe.
Its takes time to purge out the old leaven, from faith to faith, glory to glory; God's mercy & longsuffering love takes us by the hand & leads us to conquer one enemy at a time, in cleansing the house, until we're thoroughly purged Luke 3:17 gathers us unto the Gardner, becoming fit for the Master use & the end, a crown of righteousness unto everlasting life. '
Its truly is fighting the good fight of Faith, the hearing of the Word of God in our heart.
I agree wholeheartedly, but if we look at it this is where this doctrine came from, the writings and ideas of men. The Old and the New Testaments are the inspired word of God. You can find Scriptures that may fit this doctrine, but that is if we have a preconceived knowledge of it before we read it.
I agree with you, Scripture interprets Scripture, and God gives us understanding through His Spirit. We also need to be aware if we have preconceived thoughts of any Scripture these thoughts can blind our eyes and ears to the truth from the Holy Spirit.
Nowhere in the entire Bible is it taught or even discussed. You would think how this doctrine has been placed as a foundation of Christianity and even as many say salvation is dependent on belief in it, but nowhere in the Bible is it mentioned. Scripture is clear about our salvation and there is not a jot or tittle including this doctrine that was written almost 400 years later.
Thank you, David, for your caring replies and discussion of this, I guess we can leave it with that.
God's Commandments are a symbol of His love for us, and obedience to His commandments is a statement of our love for Him.
1 John 3:24 "And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us."
quoting you; no one but Christ could fully keep it
Luke 1:6Philippians 3:6
to use your own tools of understanding
blameless!
, ( to blame), blameless, deserving no censure, free from fault or defect: Luke 1:6; Philippians 2:15; Philippians 3:6; 1 Thessalonians 3:13Hebrews 8:7 (in which nothing is lacking); in the Sept. equivalent to , Job 1:1, 8 etc
Do you think, that perhaps you could be blinded here?
I do not equate the gospel preached to the Israelites mentioned in Hebrews 4:2 with the Law of Moses. The Law of Moses is not the gospel at all. It is the Law that brings us condemnation because no one but Christ could keep it fully.
It seems like you have misunderstood what I posted.
We don't get our understanding of the Bible from history or the writings and ideas of men.
We get our understanding of the Bible from the Bible itself. The Bible alone and its entirety is the Word of God and must be our only Authority.
When we recognize that God Himself is the author of the entire Bible from Genesis to Revelation, we know that we can only come to Truth by comparing scripture with scripture, using the principles that God has laid down in the Bible (and which I have tried to articulate in previous comments).
And then also recognizing that God himself must open our understanding of His Word by giving us ears to hear, as it might be His good pleasure so to do.
Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
It is very clear that John was speaking about creation. John says JESUS was with GOD and "All things were made by JESUS; and without JESUS was not any thing made that was made". By the way, JESUS -the Greater Light- was sent here by our GOD in the fourth Day, that is, around 4000 years after Adam, and around 2000 years ago, and JESUS clearly stated saying "My Father worketh hitherto, and I work."- John 5:17, NOTE that it was still the fourth Day. But, "beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one Day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one Day". - 2Peter 3:8
This past week, my wife requested a divorce. Pray that my wife of 18 years would open her heart to forgiveness AND restoration. She seems to consider forgiveness to be a weakness and a loss of personal control. She is iron-willed, and has not sought God in her life, though she was presented to me as a Christian by her friends from the beginning. We are on good terms, she just desires my departure. We have one 16 yr old daughter.
Isaiah 9:6 his name shall be called does not make him what the name is many Hebrew names have God in them. Jesus says He came in His Father's name.
John 1:1-4 What is the beginning that John is referencing here? Is this the beginning/creation or is this John's prologue of his gospel, the beginning of Jesus's ministry, as in Luke 1:2 or 1 John 1:1? The word of God was in Jesus for everything Jesus said was not His words but the Father's words who sent Him, John 4:16John 12:49John 14:24.
Jesus was the Tabernacle of God; God was manifested in Jesus, and this is the light that shined. The light that shined was eternal life 1 John 1:2. This life was given to the Son from the Father John 5:26 and we can have this gift through Jesus Christ our Lord Romans 6:23. Jesus proclaimed the Father, the Father was the Word which was proclaimed to the world, and the Word was God. In Revelation 19:13, Jesus's name is the Word of God.
John 10:30John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: As God and Jesus are one through Jesus we also can be one in unity and purpose.
John 14:9 The Father was in Jesus by God's Spirit everything Jesus did and said was from the Father. This is what Jesus is telling them in verse 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
I understand we differ, and this doctrine is deeply rooted, I do not want to offend anyone. I have studied the creation of it, and it was as much or more political than Scriptural, especially considering the number of lives that were taken because of it.
I shared with you that Hebrews through Revelation is known as the Jewish Literature Section of the Bible. As we go through the Jewish literature, it becomes more intense the further we get into the Jewish literature section. Hebrews was pretty general. James started to become more specific. 1 Peter was pretty intense and urgent.
But now as we get into 1 John, we're going to get into a book that many pastors like to stay out of because John presents not only the true doctrine of Jesus Christ for his day, but he also provides a checklist if you will, a series of tests where a person can know whether they're really saved or not.
And John is not "wishy-washy." He doesn't present any gray areas. He's considered to be a polemic writer, very controversial. He wouldn't be somebody that you would want to invite to your church to speak because he's not going to mince words. He's going to give his presentation and say here's the truth, and you can say that you are saved, but if you don't measure up to the truth then you're not saved. It's as simple as that!
And so, these letters become more and more intense, ending up with the book of Revelation which is very intense, the judgment of God.
There much truth in what you counsel, my thoughts were in the work of regeneration unto perfection, I would say yes to the thief situation, but to the jailer situation, he would have to work out his salvation, now that he 'first believed" Lydia was already a godly person, mayber just needed to hear more perfectly the gospel. I notice in my own journey, that the brighter the path becomes, the more light I received in understanding the darkness of our old Adamic nature. the little foxes spoil the vine. Song of Solomon 2:15
Philippians 3:15,16 here in this life
Thank you
In grk those words are called synonyms. They are different words with the same meaning. ie church(ekklesia), synagogue(synagoge), congregation(synaxis), they mean the same, a gathering. The anc grks used them to express the same thing. Later, the church was used for the christian congregation and synagogue for the Jewish one. Today in some churches, the word church means the building where christians gather.
Now as I said to GiGi the respective word for gospel in grk (evangelion) actually means good message/news (in ancient greek). Any good message, not only the good news of salvation. The grk for gospel (evangelion) is a very ancient word. It first appears in Homer's poem, the "Iliad" in the 8th centuary BC, for the good message of a victory in a battle, also for the price given to him who brings the good news, or even the sacrifice that was offered to Gods for their support in a victory. In Roman times evangelion(gospel) was any good news from or about the Emperor. So it was not used just for Jesus' gospel. And with this meaning we should apply it in Heb 4:2. If we look it up in other Eng. translations, we find out that all of them translate it more or less as "good news spoken", I can not figure out why the KJV translaters prefered the phrase "gospel preached". Maybe there was no difference at that time. Maybe they really thought that it was Christ's gospel that was spoken to Hebrews, although the context of that chapter does not give that impression.
I desire to be submissive, & remain teachable, let take a look at one of your statement of belief.
You spoke to Ronald, & previously stating this many time as I recall
We get our understanding of the Bible from the Bible itself. The Bible alone and its entirety is the Word of God and must be our only Authority.
Ok, this is your faith, not mind, you know where I STAND ON THIS ISSUE, saying that Luke 1:6 they were not blameless. When the Scripture of Truth says plainly "walking in all the commandments & ordinances of the Lord blameless". along with the rest of the Scriptures that I've quoted concerning this, even giving you concordance reference which you use to understand the words of God. David, you don't even believe your own faith & your calling God a liar & you expect me to give heed to counsel such as this?
I could go on refuting you soundly with the Scriptures & sound reasoning, but considering our past conversations, what would be the purpose?
Souls are at stake here, whom Jesus suffer & paid the ultimate price for & God will judge His people Ecclesiastes 5:2,3
David,,,,,,, as Keith Green song says, Your heart is hard (& is hardening ) & your prayers are cold, so where will you go from here?
In love & truth, your Friend
Frankie J
All translations say the same thing,
"separate themselves" means they separate themselves and those who follow them from the rest of the church. "Makers of sectes" or "cause divisions" say the same thing.
I am so sorry to hear of your wife's request. I will certainly pray for you, her and your marriage.
Dear Heavenly Father, this marriage is in such trouble right now so we ask that You will step in and stop this divorce from occurring and bring back to both partners the love they had for one another at the start. We ask that You bring this wife to you inn faith in Your Son, Jesus. Restore this marriage to be better than it has ever been and continue to bless these two with love, faithfulness, compassion, servanthood, and graciousness to forgive one another from the heart. Father, bring honor to your holy name in this situation and comfort to these two who are in a painful time in their relationship. Comfort and heal hearts, minds, and each person in this family. We ask these things of You, Father, in the name of Jesus. Amen.
Sometimes salvation is an instant process like with that guard in Philippi and Lydia or the thief on the cross, but sometimes it takes time for one to get their heart in a condition of repentance.
But there is a diference between been saved and get perfected. Once we are saved by believing in Christ we start our course of sanctification. We are not perfect when we are saved, we still have our weaknesses, pasions, our bad character, etc. And now we strive, with the aid of the Spirit, to get rid the old sinful man and dress up the new man in Christ. This procedure takes time, a whole lifetime actually. And there is always the danger of getting out of that course. Maybe what you want to say is that the salvation we were given at first is not secured untill the end of our course in life.GBU
when one rejects Light/Truth no matter what stage of growth one attain too,
they began to wither, darkness covers the eyes of one understanding & the ear become dull of hearing. Their love becomes cold
One's knowledge becomes tainted, their faith feign & if continue in becomes vain.
The thing about deception is, one doesn't know when one has or is being deceived.
Satan uses all his power, in signs & lying wonders with all deceivableness of unrighteous to deceive &
By the way all you who's knowledge is by the letter & book learning, being persuaded that your in the Spirit, your deceived. Only the Spirit can interpret the Scriptures for they are spiritually discerned. & any spirit that tells you otherwise is the spirit of the antichrist. The word power there in 2 Thess 2:9 is the same word power that used in Act 1:8
Satan has No lack of power to deceive.
God in His great love for us gives us Light, that appears to all mankind, whereby we may come out of this deception
To love the Truth more than ourselves, it is a gift from God 2 Thess 2:10 by receiving a love for the Truth. Fulfill the greatest commandment & the second likewise.
Don't allow Satan to cause God to send you strong delusions causing you believe a lie. Be still, become truthful with yourselves. I have, with the good, the bad & the very ugly in my past & God has rewarded me according to the simplicity & integrity of my heart towards Him & my fellow human being & is presently turning my once stony heart into a heart of flesh, enabling me to receive Him daily in everyday ordinary life experiences. Pick up the Cross, follow the Spirit as William Penn said, in the NT only the obedient eat the good of this land. John 14:15
In love & truth.
Romans 14:11 "For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God."
Praying for Thy Kingdom to come!
Isaiah 33:10-14KJV
10 Now will I rise, saith the Lord; now will I be exalted; now will I lift up myself.
11 Ye shall conceive chaff, ye shall bring forth stubble: your breath, as fire, shall devour you.
12 And the people shall be as the burnings of lime: as thorns cut up shall they be burned in the fire.
13 Hear, ye that are far off(the Gentiles peoples), what I have done; and, ye that are near (the Jews, the clay), acknowledge my might.
14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us SHALL DWELL with the devouring fire? who among us SHALL DWELL with everlasting burnings?
1 CORINTHIANS 3:13-15KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Chris,
Please see my response to what I thought was your last. And with which I agree regarding our disparate beliefs.
In this comment you are suggesting that Romans 3 is "only addressed" to those in Rome. Not true! While it is written to the Church in Rome addressing perhaps their misunderstanding of Mankind's condition, it, like the entire Bible, is written and addressed to all Mankind. And that statement is a statement of Mankind's condition, without exception, that has existed ever since Adam's first Sin of disobedience to God 's Law. That apart from God's Mercy in Salvation as He applies that Salvation to our life in making us Born Again, we are Spiritually Dead and in Bondage to Sin and Satan. And none of Mankind has any "inherent faith" that is pleasing to God and can result in Salvation.
To say it very plainly, you and I understand Salvation and the nature of the Bible quite differently.
I do not agree that the Bible teaches what you are suggesting regarding the Nature of the Godhead and the deity of the LORD Jesus Christ. The verses that I quoted speak for themselves very clearly. Every verse that you quote is absolutely true, but must be interpreted in the light of every verse in the Bible that relates. And when it comes to the Nature of God Himself we will never come to a complete understanding in our finite minds.
Most seriously though, and I am very certain of this, if we are following a gospel where Christ is not Eternal God Himself, then we have no Savior and we are still in our sins. But as long as we have the breath of life there is hope that God might open our spiritual eyes and lead us into Truth.
I have no more to say on the matter and so will leave it there.
Thank you for this discussion and may the LORD Richly Bless You.
We are only "blameless" if Christ has paid for our sins and we have become Born Again. Then the Righteousness of Christ is imputed to us and we no longer stand guilty before the Law of God. No saved person will ever become "blameless" or "faultless" while living in their fleshly body.
When we become Born Again, God does give us a New Resurrected Soul which, in itself, cannot sin. But that Soul still resides in a Body that has not been "saved" and still lusts after sin. And so, while every True Believer will have an earnest ongoing desire to be obedient to the Law of God and will continue to Grow in Grace, they will never attain a state of Sinless Perfection in regard to keeping the Law of God. Hence the Apostle Paul's statement "the good that I would I do not; but the evil that I would not, that I do."
At the Last Day when all True Believers will be Resurrected / Raptured, they will receive their Resurrected Spiritual Bodies. At that time every True Believer will become Sinless in their whole personality and will live and reign with Christ in that state throughout Eternity in the New Heavens and New Earth.
From reading this and some of your other comments, you seem to have an incorrect understanding regarding the Nature of Salvation. I do pray that God might lead us both into Truth as we search the scriptures.
But thank you for you comment. And may the LORD richly bless you.
Deuternomy 4:6-9
As many as have sinned without law(THE GENTILES) shall also PERISH without law: and as many as have sinned in the law(THE JEWS EXCLUSIVELY) shall be JUDGED by the law;
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the Day of wrath (the Lord's Day, the seventh and last Day) and revelation of the righteous Judgment of GOD;
6 Who will render to every MAN according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, ETERNAL LIFE:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the Truth, but obey unrighteousness, INDIGNATION AND WRATH,
9 TRIBULATION AND ANGUISH (from now on, the beginning of sorrows-Matt.24:3-8), upon EVERY SOUL of man that doeth evil, of the Jew FIRST, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew FIRST, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with GOD.
12 For as many as have sinned WITHOUT LAW (THE GENTILES) shall also PERISH without LAW; and as many as have sinned in the LAW(THE JEWS) shall be JUDGED by the LAW;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before GOD, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the GENTILES, which HAVE NOT THE LAW, do by nature the things contained in the LAW, these, having NOT the LAW, are a LAW unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the LAW written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
16 In this Day(the Lord's Day, this seventh and last Day) when GOD shall Judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to MY GOSPEL. (TRIBULATION AND ANGUISH (from now on, the beginning of sorrows-Matt.24:3-8), upon EVERY SOUL of man that doeth evil, of the Jew FIRST, and also of the Gentile;
Be careful or then get ready
Friends
Concerning Hebrews 9:14
The cleansing offer here, is from the evil one, who rules in the old Adamic nature, the first birth.
The dead works are by Satan influence upon hearts & minds, thus we yielding our member unto unrighteousness Rom 6:16
The law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus is obedience to the Spirit. Rom 8:14
Hebrews 10:5-10
The nature of the Salvation that Christ offer was to rid us of sin. John 1:29 "ONCE & FOR ALL".
Bring us to a life of obedience, by the Spirit through the new birth 1Pet 1:2
Hebrews 10:14-18 Where the remission of these are, there is no more offering for sin.
& why, as stated in v 16,17 , the expression here is they that are sanctified, by obedience to His holy will & are made perfect, they sin no more. Christ being formed in the heart by God writing His Commandment on the tablet of our heart & placing His fear there Jeremiah 32:40
Hebrews 10:26-31
If we sin willfully after receiving the knowledge of the Truth, the Grace of God that appears to all mankind Titus 2:11-13
The Holy Spirit who John 16:8
When He appears in Spirit teaching us to discern between Good & evil & we repent with godly sorrow, remission of whatsoever sin is granted, except blasphemy of Holy Spirit. The Blood of Jesus cleanses us of the sin itself & from the influence of the evil one, that we're not to continue in it any longer or we're troddening under foot the Son of God, counting the Blood/Life of Jesus, the Covenant, an unholy thing & doing despite to the Spirit of Grace, turning Grace into lasciviousness & wantonness.
Folks, this is the true gospel, that has the living Power of God to save unto the uttermost to all that come to Him by faith, His spiritual appearance within our heart / conscience, "The still small Voice". The letter of either covenant cannot reach here, the letter is knowledge, a form of godliness without the Power of His Life/Spirit, & yet it was given unto us as a Witness & Points to the Spirit by which all the saints in the Scriptures were taught, led & saved by.
A personal testimony
Its not an instance salvation, as taught today's in Babylon's Christianity, describe in Rev 17; Mystery Babylon, but is reveal by the Spirit in Philippians 2:12 Rom13:3 1Pet 1:5-9 as a work in progress after we first believe.
Its takes time to purge out the old leaven, from faith to faith, glory to glory; God's mercy & longsuffering love takes us by the hand & leads us to conquer one enemy at a time, in cleansing the house, until we're thoroughly purged Luke 3:17 gathers us unto the Gardner, becoming fit for the Master use & the end, a crown of righteousness unto everlasting life. '
Its truly is fighting the good fight of Faith, the hearing of the Word of God in our heart.
In love & truth
I agree wholeheartedly, but if we look at it this is where this doctrine came from, the writings and ideas of men. The Old and the New Testaments are the inspired word of God. You can find Scriptures that may fit this doctrine, but that is if we have a preconceived knowledge of it before we read it.
I agree with you, Scripture interprets Scripture, and God gives us understanding through His Spirit. We also need to be aware if we have preconceived thoughts of any Scripture these thoughts can blind our eyes and ears to the truth from the Holy Spirit.
Nowhere in the entire Bible is it taught or even discussed. You would think how this doctrine has been placed as a foundation of Christianity and even as many say salvation is dependent on belief in it, but nowhere in the Bible is it mentioned. Scripture is clear about our salvation and there is not a jot or tittle including this doctrine that was written almost 400 years later.
Thank you, David, for your caring replies and discussion of this, I guess we can leave it with that.
God bless,
RLW
1 John 3:24 "And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us."
Luke 1:6 Philippians 3:6
to use your own tools of understanding
blameless!
, ( to blame), blameless, deserving no censure, free from fault or defect: Luke 1:6; Philippians 2:15; Philippians 3:6; 1 Thessalonians 3:13 Hebrews 8:7 (in which nothing is lacking); in the Sept. equivalent to , Job 1:1, 8 etc
Do you think, that perhaps you could be blinded here?
Jude 1:19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
(looks like, this speaks about causing problem to himself)
But in Tyndale it says
Jude 1:19 These are makers of sectes fleshlie havynge no sprete.
(looks like, this speaks about causing problem to the church)
In BSB it says: These are the ones who cause divisions, who are worldly and devoid of the Spirit.
Which one is correct "separate themselves" or "makers of sectes" or "cause divisions" as in other translations?
Because both "separate themselves" and "cause divisions" are different in meaning.
I do not equate the gospel preached to the Israelites mentioned in Hebrews 4:2 with the Law of Moses. The Law of Moses is not the gospel at all. It is the Law that brings us condemnation because no one but Christ could keep it fully.
It seems like you have misunderstood what I posted.
We don't get our understanding of the Bible from history or the writings and ideas of men.
We get our understanding of the Bible from the Bible itself. The Bible alone and its entirety is the Word of God and must be our only Authority.
When we recognize that God Himself is the author of the entire Bible from Genesis to Revelation, we know that we can only come to Truth by comparing scripture with scripture, using the principles that God has laid down in the Bible (and which I have tried to articulate in previous comments).
And then also recognizing that God himself must open our understanding of His Word by giving us ears to hear, as it might be His good pleasure so to do.
Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Isaiah 9:6 his name shall be called does not make him what the name is many Hebrew names have God in them. Jesus says He came in His Father's name.
John 1:1-4 What is the beginning that John is referencing here? Is this the beginning/creation or is this John's prologue of his gospel, the beginning of Jesus's ministry, as in Luke 1:2 or 1 John 1:1? The word of God was in Jesus for everything Jesus said was not His words but the Father's words who sent Him, John 4:16 John 12:49 John 14:24.
Jesus was the Tabernacle of God; God was manifested in Jesus, and this is the light that shined. The light that shined was eternal life 1 John 1:2. This life was given to the Son from the Father John 5:26 and we can have this gift through Jesus Christ our Lord Romans 6:23. Jesus proclaimed the Father, the Father was the Word which was proclaimed to the world, and the Word was God. In Revelation 19:13, Jesus's name is the Word of God.
John 10:30 John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: As God and Jesus are one through Jesus we also can be one in unity and purpose.
John 14:9 The Father was in Jesus by God's Spirit everything Jesus did and said was from the Father. This is what Jesus is telling them in verse 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
I understand we differ, and this doctrine is deeply rooted, I do not want to offend anyone. I have studied the creation of it, and it was as much or more political than Scriptural, especially considering the number of lives that were taken because of it.
God bless,
RLW