There is a verse in the N T that warns those who do not receive the Apostles are not welcomed or accepted while preaching evangelizing or explain "the way" they will be an anathema before God
Just for some clarification, some may have misunderstood our underlying reasoning for the debate. Neither side of the debate is advocating that Christians are free to sin because we are not under the law. In the NT nine of the ten commandments were indeed repeated as moral instruction and deal with things that are inherently right and wrong. The Sabbath was omitted from that and for a reason. There is no instruction to Christians to keep the Sabbath, and nothing that has been discussed was meant to give any Christian free license to sin. God hates sin in any form!
Yes, Jesus is our "KINSMAN" redeemer.. I emphasize Kinsman because of what is discussed in this thread. In Revelation 5:4-10 Ir states that NO MAN was found to open the book. It had to be a man to fulfill the role! And Jesus qualifies being born of a woman to be our Kinsman.
Galatians 4:3-5 "Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons
We learn much about this in type in the book of Ruth and in other places on the OT.
The original post on this thread was concerning the Sabbath commandment and if it still needs to be obeyed.
This question said nothing about needing to obey this commandment to be saved.''
So, Adam did not change the narrative anymore or less that those who made the thread into obedience to the commands of God as a necessity for being saved. Adam is just directing the conversation into another aspect of how the moral commands of God apply to our walk in the Spirit. I have been reading this thread and was thinking just like Adam as to "Why is no one speaking of how walking in the Spirit is obeying God and how we are warned against walking according to the sinful nature that leads us to think that sinning against the moral commands of God is o.k."
So, I am glad that Adam "changed the narrative" as you say, because the tone of the thread can be perceived as he has voiced a concern about: that we can live as WE wish and not be concerned if we disobey the commandments or not because it doesn't matter. I can see that this can easily be deduced from what many have posted on this thread, especially those who are young in the faith or who have had deep entanglements in sinful lifestyles. So, I think that the Adam's "take" on this subject is needed and anyone who walks by the Spirit ought to agree with him.
S. Spencer, I do not wish to get into a long exchange with you on this as I think much has already been said in this thread and between us in the past on this topic. I know you are passionate about this topic from the angle you present, and I agree that we do not obey God to earn salvation nor His favor. And I agree with Adam that we who walk according the Spirit within us should be living life of moral obedience to God as well as one that follows the lead of the Spirit in every personal experience, to will and do ALL that one is called to do or not to do as the Spirit shows us.
For me, presenting both of these angles is important here.
Legalism is doing what is right in order to earn salvation. It is following man-made requirements to earn God's favor.
It is not legalism to walk in obedience to God by the working of the Holy Spirit. Those who obey the 10 commandments are doing what God wills and showing the world what Jesus was like in that He fulfilled the Law in every way.
We obey the 10 commandments so that we are treating one another with love, grace, and mercy as well as giving God the glory and worship He alone deserves.
Many have taken this discussion in the direction of it is not necessary to obey the 10 commandments as a way to be saved" and most of us agree with that, so perhaps it is time to discuss how obeying the 10 commandments fulfills God's will for us in our daily lives, as you have proposed.
The discussion on the relationship of the 10 commandments to salvation has been discussed thoroughly and at length, but not everyone has presented their argument in such terms which makes it seem that we do not need to live our lives according to God's moral commands.
Some people balk at the term "need" in reference to obeying the 10 commandments, as if using the term "need" means that we obey them in order to secure salvation. But that is not necessarily the case. As believers we do need to be obedient to God and turn from sin in order to fulfill the commands Jesus summed up in Matt. 22:34-40: Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and love your neighbor as yourself. These two commands gather together the whole moral law of God.
In Matt. 5:17-20, our Lord warns against breaking even the least of the commandments and instructing anyone else to disobey these commandments.
Jesus was very clear about our obligation to God to be obedient. If we don't think we need to follow God's rules for right living then we have made ourselves our god and the determiner of right from wrong. We are to be slaves to righteousness. God is our sovereign.
Spencer, this seems like an unusual response from you about my post on the 10 commandments.
>It has never been anything close to an argument whether killing, stealing, adultery, ect was a sin or not on this site, and you know that.
"and you know that"?
What an unusual comment from you. Surely you're not pretending to know my thoughts that only God knows?
I stand by what I wrote and God knows your heart and motives for every word you say. It's a fact that Christians often try to justify sin through clever little cherry picking of verses and this occurs on this site. There was someone just recently who wrote it's impossible for Christians to sin and that our actions don't matter. This is a false teaching. It's unusual that you claimed "never been anything close to an argument..." because that's obviously untrue.
I'm not sure whether you haven't read some of these threads on this or just generally denying it. Christians sinning was such a big deal that's why Jesus warned His followers so much about it over and over, including through parables. If it wasn't such a big deal, Jesus wouldn't have repeated this over and over. John 8:11 "go, and sin no more" etc.
Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"
The truth needs to be shared on this forum, because there is a lot of misinformation and lies often repeated. Satan loves deceiving Christians and getting them to do his work. I feel led by the spirit to warn Christians, because people are ignoring Jesus's words and time is running out. John 14:15 Most people in the US call themselves "Christian" but Jesus says most people will go to hell. Jesus will help go after his true followers (sheep), but He doesn't go after wolves to "save" them, and He doesn't go after wolves in sheep's clothing. Matthew 7:13-21
Why do you assume the beast in Revelation is satan or the anti-christ?
Daniel 7:23 ...the FORTH beast shall be the FORTH KINGDOM on earth ....
John the Baptist came preaching the KINGDOM of GOD; the FORTH kingdom on earth, the FORTH BEAST, the last kingdom on earth.
The Kingdom of God has been on earth now for about 2000 years; CHRIST IN THE FLESH, IN YOU, his BODY, causing man TO WILL and TO DO his good pleasure.
Ezekiel 36:27 I WILL put MY SPIRIT IN YOU and CAUSE YOU to walk in my statutes and TO KEEP my judgements and DO THEM
Revelation 6:7 And when HE (the lamb of God) had opened the forth seal, I heard the voice of the FORTH BEAST (the lamb of God, the kingdom of God) SAY, come and see
Revelation 6:8 And I looked, and behold, a pale horse, and his name that sat on him WAS DEATH, and the grave followed after him, and POWER WAS GIVEN TO THEM (the image of the BEAST, the kingdom of GOD) over the forth part of the earth, to KILL with the SWORD (the word of God), and with HUNGER (no bread of life), and with DEATH, and with the BEAST of the EARTH (those that carry the mark of the BEAST: the kingdom of God.
Revelation 12:16 And the earth HELPED the WOMAN, and the earth OPENED her MOUTH (DEATH and the grave), and swallowed up the FLOOD (people, tongues and nations) which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Psalms 7:13 He hath also prepared for him the INSTRUMENTS of DEATH; he ORDAINED his ARROWS against the persecutors.
Jeremiah 51:29 THOU (those that carry the MARK) are my battle axe and WEAPONS of WAR (arrows, the word of GOD); for with THEE (the saints, the BODY of Christ, the IMAGE of the BEAST) WILL I break in pieces the NATIONS, and with THEE will I destroy kingdoms.
Revelation 2:27 ...to him that overcometh, WILL I give POWER over the NATIONS .....
You're changing the narrative to strengthen your point.
You said,
Just because you strive for righteousness and strive to walk in Jesus's example does not mean you're trying to earn heaven.
We agree on striving for righteousness and strive to walk in Jesus's example! When did you get that?
You also said, "You think the 10 commandments apply- obviously the argument that since Jesus it's ok to do "whatever" is a weak argument"
I've never heard anyone say that on this site, in fact for years we've made it very very clear that the commandments was Holy and they were to show man he is a sinner.
The emphasis has always been on man and his inability to keep the commandments and man's fallen sinful nature.
Is man sinful? Yes!
Has all sinned? Yes!
Romans 3:10
1 John 1:8-10.
Can the commandments make him right with God? No! Galatians 2:21.
It has never been anything close to an argument whether killing, stealing, adultery, ect was a sin or not on this site, and you know that.
There's plenty sins we make that is not listed in the 10 commandments, We sin in our mind and heart, Lack of patience and trust in God is a sin.
You can sin doing the right thing because you didn't want to. Our rebellious nature is sinful.
The Power of Christ resurrection didn't just atone for your sins, it also quickened you to live a live a productive life in Christ, pleasing to God. Romans 8:9-13.
And even with this power and energy from the Holyspirit you can't come from underneath the blood of Christ.
Scripture teaches if a man continues in sin he's not saved. You call that a straw man's argument. But I'm sure you will admit that all have sinned.
You've said no one knows whether they are saved or not until the judgment, But if we're saved by keeping the law it should be clear to you that we're all condemned considering the strictness of the law, then how do God judge his people? He'd have to compromise if Galatians 2:16 isn't true.
Carleton, well said. I need to give today and everyday to Jesus. Although, it is hard going through what I am going through. Nonetheless, May God bless us with the manifestation of His power through us His servants and that we take no credit.
You can check the accuracy of this by using (King James Pure Bible search)
The 1st verse in the Bible, and the last verse in the Bible are,
( Gen 1:1) IN the beginning God created the heaven and the EARTH.
( Rev 22:21) THE grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. AMEN.
The 1st word and the last word of the 1st and last verses of the KJB are (IN) (EARTH) (THE) AND (AMEN)
There are 77777 mentions of these words in the KJB! In the KJB ONLY!!
The 1st word in the KJB and the last word in the KJB are (IN) and (Amen)
There are 777 mentions of these two words in the books of Genesis and Revelation in the KJB! In the KJB ONLY!!
The word (seven) is #7651 in Hebrew; it means from 7650; a primitive cardinal number; seven (as the sacred full one) 7650; means to be complete.
( Rev 1:11) Jesus Christ is speaking here: "Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last"
Jesus Christ IS the first and the last.
The KJB is the Perfect Word of God. This is only a small example of how perfect His Words truly are.
All modern version bibles change the words of God which completely throws this perfect pattern of God's signature off, they have perverted the Words of the living God ( Jer 23:36) (perverted) #2015; it means ((to change))
EVERY WORD OF GOD IS PURE ( Proverbs 30 :5-6) 6"Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar"
If you want to see more of these perfect patterns in the KJB just google (Truth is Christ) on youtube.
Latonyad, it is so sad what is happening in schools. From Kindergarten to Senior High Schools. What is also very sad is that many are manipulated into having a sex-change surgery. The kid's life has been ruined. I am praying that the Lord bless you with a better job. A peaceful and safe environment.
When we remain close to the Cross we remain close to the Commandments and they are not a burden to us as His yoke is easy. We can rest in this day in peace and gladness. Jesus is our new day. I believe the Christian's reasonable service is to point to this day in our non-resistant lives and actions by grace.
"For the Lord knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish."
Job was a righteous man. " But he knoweth the way that I take: when he hath tried me, I shall come forth as gold."( Job 23:10) His patience was a virtue, which was not his patrimony but taught of God in the midst of the fire that tried him daily. 'Behold, we consider those blessed who remained steadfast. You have heard of the steadfastness of Job, and you have seen the purpose of the Lord, how the Lord is compassionate and merciful."( James 5:11-ESV) Do we not see faith in the manner he received it each day? He did not change his stance while to his friends it smacked of mulishness to hold on still to righteousness. It was obvious to the whole world 'here is a wreck, in body and worldly goods! Instead of speaking what was right they did injury to holiness of God to which we shall come anon.
Was Job guilty of pride, to hold onto his righteousness? He knew faith in God's mercy that made him weather the storm about his hearth,- for daily it came in waves. His unfortunate wife was lost in the domestic tragedies she could not understand. St James speaks of mercy which has the righteousness of the Son and also a form,- this was the fourth presence in the story of the Three Hebrew Children Thrown Into The Furnace. Only with experience or growing in grace we begin to appreciate the verses in the Book of Lamentations. "The steadfast love of the LORD never ceases; his mercies never come to an end;/ they are new every morning; great is your faithfulness."(Lam.3:22-23). In a nutshell the grace of Jesus Christ works from within, and 'Christ in me' is not making a show for fools. Consider Jesus who refused the Jews who would want a sign from him. We are living in the same similar wicked and adulterous generation. Till he comes to gather his saints we shall see fools of the same stripe, only that they call it 'prosperity.' They are the chaff.
"And whatsoever he doeth shall prosper./The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away".(vv.3-4)
Ungodly are those who have not the Son. ( 1 John 2:23). We see several examples in the history of Israel where they made light of the commandments of God. "Be ye holy for I am holy."
How did the sons of Aaron serve God?
"And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the Lord, which he commanded them not./ And there went out fire from the Lord, and devoured them, and they died before the Lord./Then Moses said unto Aaron, This is it that the Lord spake, saying, I will be sanctified in them that come nigh me, and before all the people I will be glorified. And Aaron held his peace."(Le.10:1-3)
When God presented his Son to the world it was not as a teacher but as the Savior of the world. ( John 3:16) "And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him." (He. 1:6). Without giving glory to God and his Word we pride of belonging as citizens of nations. How nations flounder under their own conceit? "Hath a nation changed their gods, which are yet no gods? but my people have changed their glory for that which doth not profit. Be astonished, O ye heavens, at this, and be horribly afraid, be ye very desolate, saith the LORD. (Je.2:11-13)
It pleased God the Father that in Jesus Christ should all fullness dwell. (Col.1:18) So our witnessing can only work with the true Light where he is the Way.
The chaff is what will-worship wants to achieve as against God and his glory above all.
Peaches, I agree with your interpretation of the "mark". Symbolizing scriptures like Deut. 11:8 "Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes." Referring to what we think and do. The angel sealing the servants of God in Rev. 7 seems like it has to do with the Holy Spirit. Eph. 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Referring to changing our thinking.
Thank U for your comments. It will take time for me to understand them as I don't read the various parts of the bible. I read the commandments and some of genesis and accept the Bible. I do research and some I think relatd to the BIble. I think that our time scales are far different for the time scale of God for example I often wondered that when the roll is called up younder; how long would it take as I imagined it would be like in a class room and the I realized that God can do anything and so that would be done in far less that a milli second as we would all instantly hear our names; and similarly, the the plans for heaven and Earth were in less than a millisecond; and it was all started and continued and done and then his spirit was upon the face of the earth; and He created all the animals etc. and then man; and He created man with the ability to think and decide right from wrong, a little lower that the angels; and there was a reason for that, as angles, if they start to think, they can rebels similar to when the archangel and his followers did, or they just may want try living on earth, maybe to see if they can better it as live men or women; but when they become so they forget they are angles and are born as children a little lower than angles. I think that God sets up Systems for everything that automatically work; and if you do not follow the systems; they will not work as they should of course and we may suffer and or maybe die; however the system will recover before we all die.
BY faith in Jesus who died for our sins; and the forgiving of those sins; many will be judged and hopefully saved to live as Angels
I dont think my comments contradict anything in the Bible. They are not meant to do so. They are only my thoughts and I appreciate anyone commenting on them and teaching me and even adding new aspects to my thoughts. Debating, free speech and discussion is good for mind, body and souls; but it also can confuse. So take care. Thanks 4 your reply
What it means to live by fruit of our lips? "From the fruit of his mouth a man eats what is good, but the desire of the treacherous is for violence."(Pr.13:2-ESV) Mouth that utters knowledge is compared to the plants and how fruit develops from flowers. Think of Maigret's painting 'The Son of Man'. Where the lips ought to be we see the apple under his bowler hat. The Spirit similarly transfers the fruit of the word hidden in his soul into works that can be understood. "A man's belly shall be satisfied with the fruit of his mouth;andwith the increase of his lips shall he be filled."(Pr.18:20)
In Deuteronomy we see the word connecting heart of man where belly represents the inner man and mouth, the world of the flesh and blood. Moses admonishes the nation, "Therefore choose life." (De.30:14,19) How did the nation of Israel choose? "The governor again said to them, "Which of the two do you want me to release for you?" And they said, "Barabbas." (Matt.27:21-ESV)
Lips from the above can be lifted to represent the state and the Word of God, as Moses and Aaron represented the civil and ecclesiastical governments respectively. The children of darkness chose Barabbas because he was one of them. Such choices mark the history of the church. Pagan state versus the early church was one such moment and who won, not the word of God. Advent of Luther and Calvin did not help the case either. The miry clay of church still struggles to come to compromise with the nationalism representing the state. Jesus rejected the idea of setting a civil government before he had perfected the will of his Father. ( John 18:36). Yet temporal power is so attractive to those who serve both God and man; and they need not expect any reward beyond the mess they helped create. Look about us to see what I mean.
"And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper./The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away."
Here we are looking at the river which came from the water above the firmament and the tree of life in particular. In the Genesis account we have a garden planted by God. Out of the ground He caused this garden to take shape. This garden is isolated from its natural circumstances for our instruction. So we are looking at the world of the Spirit, all the ethnicity of peoples, flora and fauna associated with the natural world are brushed out of the snapshot as it were. The Spirit tells us of heavenly places in which we were blessed with all spiritual blessings in Christ, -the Tree of life. Here we are meditating upon what was in the mind of God. Humanity of Jesus compares him to to a plant. So when Jesus said "Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be rooted up. Let them alone," we shall locate our position as many branches of this tree. Isaiah says thus"For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground:"(Is.53:2)
By his death and resurrection he caused the roots tap untold resources from His Father's storehouse so that no one may tell how God provided for them spiritually as well as whatever needful for their daily needs.
St John in the following text tells 'whosoever born of God does not sin'. Those who are born of God must show who they are in their moderation and their sober living. "We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not./And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.:
Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
As Christians what is our hope? "When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.:(Col.3:4). God has blessed us with all spiritual blessings in his Son and the Psalm teaches how we should conduct ourselves. God blessed us for a purpose so we are to attend to where we stand and with whom, "If God be for us who can be against us? (Ro.8:31). St Paul writes "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose."(Ro.8:28)
How often we find examples of those who started well but somewhere lost their wind along the way. It is daunting to take up the challenge by our own strengths. "Thy word have I hid in mine heart, That I might not sin against thee. Blessed art thou, O LORD: Teach me thy statutes.(Ps.119:11-12). After having entered to race according to our calling how on earth can we hang about the fleshpots of Egypt as it were? "For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:/Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)(Ph.3:18-19)
"But his delight is in the law of theLord; and in his law doth he meditate day and night."
Well David0921, as in all things biblical, the student of the Word must come to his own conclusions, yet knowing that not everything can be known or correctly understood. You've stated your interpretation of that Luke 16 account using the principles that have no doubt served you well through the years. I too have studied the Word, & in this instance, Jesus' use of parables, their structure, their message, & the need for His interpretation of them (at least to His disciples, when asked) is essential to my examination.
This account of Lazarus in Hades, to my reading, stands out as one totally different to the rest of Jesus' parables. In fact, I would even place it in the same category as John 14:2,3. I hope we believe that Jesus was truthfully speaking of "mansions" or 'rooms' in His Father's House. Or, maybe He wasn't & just wanting to comfort & assure His disciples that they wouldn't be forgotten at His appearing. Now I can hear some saying that there's no such thing as "mansions" in Heaven & this message to them was simply figurative. Should we believe this account & not the other? Or, maybe reject both? What would make one account truthful & the other not? Individual perceptions are very strong based on a variety of factors that bear upon us, even when we read from the same Bible. GBU.
Mark of the beast is not about any person on whom one can tack his 'bogey'. In the cold war it was Soviet union and quiet recently we have come across the names such as Ayatollah Komeini, Saddam Hossein ISIL et al. The Spirit uses Number 6 as he uses Number 3 or 4. In Ez.39:2 the number Six is used as 'condemnation' against Gog.("And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee". The same tag we find with regards to the image that the king set up. "Nebuchadnezzar the king made an image of gold, whose height was threescore cubits, and the breadth thereof six cubits: he set it up in the plain of Dura, in the province of Babylon."(Dan.3:1) This is against the number 3 assigned for the Son. The creation account in Seven days we have the first Four days allotted for heaven, Four gospels, 4 cardinal directions indication of Jesus Christ the Savior of the World God was Word. Thus 4+3 gives us 7,- the command number for perfection.
666 refers in sequence body spirit and soul which is short of 777. The beast whose authority came from the dragon had no use for the word of God. So his body, spirit and soul were equally marked as condemned. The dragon in Re.13 has seven heads because he is the son of God gone rogue. But his 10 horns indicate he is under the wrath which explains the Decalogue. So whoever rejects the word of God is marked 666 and belongs to Satan. God shall not judge but has left all judgment to the Son. So till the Great White Throne the number 666 stays.
In Re.16 we have a hint from the Spirit that Satan, anti-christ and the beast are in agreement: "And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet./For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, "(vv.13-14)
I think the 10 commandments apply- obviously the argument that since Jesus it's ok to do "whatever" is a weak argument, because that would then mean its ok to kill people, lie, have affairs, etc. Few people argue that those 10 commandments no longer apply, but the sabbath one. I don't think Col 2:16 means that its now ok to commit whatever sin you want. That's not what the verse means.
To me the sabbath can be confusing, because its somewhat tied to Jewish culture, and there are a few verses like this below that Jesus said that makes it possibly "appear" less important...
"And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:" Mark 2:27 KJV
Also the people accused Jesus of breaking the sabbath like by healing people, etc. Jesus's answer:
"Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy it?" Luke 6:9 KJV
Jesus didn't say the sabbath no longer applies, but he seemed to push back on people criticizing him for doing good on that day. They were extremely accusatory and hypocritical and Jesus tried to clarify what the sabbath was for, that its ok to do good, and to put the Pharisees in their place. That is my current short interpretation.
"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Romans 8:1 KJV
No condemnation for who? "to them which are in Christ Jesus"
How about those who aren't really "in" Christ Jesus, but just familiar. Maybe someone's "saved" 30 years ago and inactive since? Maybe doing worldly things here and there, but hey we're all sinners, right? Maybe I'm just following the holy spirit, so its not my fault for indulging in sin sometimes, right?" [satan's deception]
"no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh"
"I'm still saved if I walk after the flesh though, right?"
"who walk not after the flesh"
This is a qualifier. It doesn't say there's no condemnation to anyone and everyone. It also says those who walk not after the flesh. Those who aren't actively, intentionally sinning. Sinning is turning your back on God. Sinning is like slapping Jesus in the face. Satan is trying to convince Christians that the law doesn't apply, that it's ok to sin. It's not ok. Sin leads to death and still will without Jesus. That is not a license to sin, however. Following Jesus means being a "slave" to righteousness- an intentional effort to take Jesus seriously and truly follow Him. Many say it, few do it. Just because you strive for righteousness and strive to walk in Jesus's example does not mean you're trying to earn heaven. This is the number one straw man argument people keep repeating over and over. Some even take it to the extreme where they say God doesn't want you to obey Him. "It's bad to obey God, and good to NOT obey Him." Who does that sound like?
Some cherry pick scripture and ignore the following and obedience part. We're still saved by grace.
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." Matthew 5:17 KJV
I do not believe the Bible supports your conclusion as to how one should handle the parable in Luke 16 if there is no other passage supporting the historical literal nature of the "events" described. God has placed this "parable" in the Bible to teach Spiritual truth related to the Gospel.
The Bible is replete with "parabolic" language that is not literally historical, but figurative. For example, Christ is not a literal "Lamb", and Christ will not be returning on a literal "white horse" with a literal "sword" protruding from His mouth nor will the True Believers return fighting a literal battle with "bows and arrows", etc. This is "parabolic", figurative language.
And we don't have to look at churches that claim extra Biblical revelation for deviation from Scripture. We need only look at the Baptists, the Methodist, the Presbyterians, the Reformed, the Lutherans, etc. in order to see tremendous deviation amongst them and many doctrines and practices contrary to what the Bible teaches. And in our day, an acceleration of departing from the Bible as their ultimate authority.
This is why God's judgment is upon the churches and why Matt 24, Mark 13, 1 Pet 4:17 and 2 Thess 2 are now in play. This is the Day in which we are living, the Great Tribulation. The "fig tree", "National Israel", is in "leaf", but bearing no "fruit" and this will continue until Christ returns to at the Last Day.
Hello Peaches, You are right about the Mark being about who we give our allegiance and worship to and that it is not any vaccine now available.
But what you said about the DNA is not correct. One's DNA is not altered by a vaccine anymore that by the meat or other foods we eat. The nourishment of food is broken down and goes into every cell of our body. So we should not fear our DNA being changed against God's will for how each person's DNA is unique to them. God is able to preserve our bodily integrity down to the DNA, even to the amino acid molecules that make up the DNA and to the atoms that make up the elements that constitute our bodies.
I praise God for we are fearfully and wonderfully made!
I retired from teaching Kindergarten a few years ago. I was so glad to be able to do so because of what you are experience with such young children who are violent, unruly, disruptive to class instruction, hurting other children and staff, and not being properly disciplined by administrators that think that not having consequences to wrong behavior is better for the child. This bothered my very deeply because I know that this approach is harmful to these children with disturbing behaviors and to those children who are victimized by them. No five year old should be experiencing this abuse in school!
I feel for you LaTonya. As teachers, our hands were tied. We were told that, by law, we cannot put our hands on the children to prevent them from hurting others or to keep them from running out of the classroom or away from adults. Most parents and people in the community do not know how terrible the situation is in schools now, nor how the laws passed by legislators who do not know what is really happening in schools affect the school community. So much time is spent in class addressing these children and/or making all the class exit the classroom so that the problem child can trash the room, throw things like chairs, etc. so much learning opportunity is lost due to this approach. One classroom evacuation takes about 15 -20 minutes out of the school day and this can happen multiple times a day in some classes.
I will pray for you, LaTonya, for this situation is so concerning for you. I pray for your safety, for the Lord to reduce your stress levels, and to open doors to a more appropriate and healthy work situation.
Yes, Jesus is our "KINSMAN" redeemer.. I emphasize Kinsman because of what is discussed in this thread. In Revelation 5:4-10 Ir states that NO MAN was found to open the book. It had to be a man to fulfill the role! And Jesus qualifies being born of a woman to be our Kinsman.
Galatians 4:3-5 "Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons
We learn much about this in type in the book of Ruth and in other places on the OT.
GB.
The original post on this thread was concerning the Sabbath commandment and if it still needs to be obeyed.
This question said nothing about needing to obey this commandment to be saved.''
So, Adam did not change the narrative anymore or less that those who made the thread into obedience to the commands of God as a necessity for being saved. Adam is just directing the conversation into another aspect of how the moral commands of God apply to our walk in the Spirit. I have been reading this thread and was thinking just like Adam as to "Why is no one speaking of how walking in the Spirit is obeying God and how we are warned against walking according to the sinful nature that leads us to think that sinning against the moral commands of God is o.k."
So, I am glad that Adam "changed the narrative" as you say, because the tone of the thread can be perceived as he has voiced a concern about: that we can live as WE wish and not be concerned if we disobey the commandments or not because it doesn't matter. I can see that this can easily be deduced from what many have posted on this thread, especially those who are young in the faith or who have had deep entanglements in sinful lifestyles. So, I think that the Adam's "take" on this subject is needed and anyone who walks by the Spirit ought to agree with him.
S. Spencer, I do not wish to get into a long exchange with you on this as I think much has already been said in this thread and between us in the past on this topic. I know you are passionate about this topic from the angle you present, and I agree that we do not obey God to earn salvation nor His favor. And I agree with Adam that we who walk according the Spirit within us should be living life of moral obedience to God as well as one that follows the lead of the Spirit in every personal experience, to will and do ALL that one is called to do or not to do as the Spirit shows us.
For me, presenting both of these angles is important here.
I agree with you.
Legalism is doing what is right in order to earn salvation. It is following man-made requirements to earn God's favor.
It is not legalism to walk in obedience to God by the working of the Holy Spirit. Those who obey the 10 commandments are doing what God wills and showing the world what Jesus was like in that He fulfilled the Law in every way.
We obey the 10 commandments so that we are treating one another with love, grace, and mercy as well as giving God the glory and worship He alone deserves.
Many have taken this discussion in the direction of it is not necessary to obey the 10 commandments as a way to be saved" and most of us agree with that, so perhaps it is time to discuss how obeying the 10 commandments fulfills God's will for us in our daily lives, as you have proposed.
The discussion on the relationship of the 10 commandments to salvation has been discussed thoroughly and at length, but not everyone has presented their argument in such terms which makes it seem that we do not need to live our lives according to God's moral commands.
Some people balk at the term "need" in reference to obeying the 10 commandments, as if using the term "need" means that we obey them in order to secure salvation. But that is not necessarily the case. As believers we do need to be obedient to God and turn from sin in order to fulfill the commands Jesus summed up in Matt. 22:34-40: Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and love your neighbor as yourself. These two commands gather together the whole moral law of God.
In Matt. 5:17-20, our Lord warns against breaking even the least of the commandments and instructing anyone else to disobey these commandments.
Jesus was very clear about our obligation to God to be obedient. If we don't think we need to follow God's rules for right living then we have made ourselves our god and the determiner of right from wrong. We are to be slaves to righteousness. God is our sovereign.
>It has never been anything close to an argument whether killing, stealing, adultery, ect was a sin or not on this site, and you know that.
"and you know that"?
What an unusual comment from you. Surely you're not pretending to know my thoughts that only God knows?
I stand by what I wrote and God knows your heart and motives for every word you say. It's a fact that Christians often try to justify sin through clever little cherry picking of verses and this occurs on this site. There was someone just recently who wrote it's impossible for Christians to sin and that our actions don't matter. This is a false teaching. It's unusual that you claimed "never been anything close to an argument..." because that's obviously untrue.
I'm not sure whether you haven't read some of these threads on this or just generally denying it. Christians sinning was such a big deal that's why Jesus warned His followers so much about it over and over, including through parables. If it wasn't such a big deal, Jesus wouldn't have repeated this over and over. John 8:11 "go, and sin no more" etc.
Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"
The truth needs to be shared on this forum, because there is a lot of misinformation and lies often repeated. Satan loves deceiving Christians and getting them to do his work. I feel led by the spirit to warn Christians, because people are ignoring Jesus's words and time is running out. John 14:15 Most people in the US call themselves "Christian" but Jesus says most people will go to hell. Jesus will help go after his true followers (sheep), but He doesn't go after wolves to "save" them, and He doesn't go after wolves in sheep's clothing. Matthew 7:13-21
Why do you assume the beast in Revelation is satan or the anti-christ?
Daniel 7:23 ...the FORTH beast shall be the FORTH KINGDOM on earth ....
John the Baptist came preaching the KINGDOM of GOD; the FORTH kingdom on earth, the FORTH BEAST, the last kingdom on earth.
The Kingdom of God has been on earth now for about 2000 years; CHRIST IN THE FLESH, IN YOU, his BODY, causing man TO WILL and TO DO his good pleasure.
Ezekiel 36:27 I WILL put MY SPIRIT IN YOU and CAUSE YOU to walk in my statutes and TO KEEP my judgements and DO THEM
Revelation 6:7 And when HE (the lamb of God) had opened the forth seal, I heard the voice of the FORTH BEAST (the lamb of God, the kingdom of God) SAY, come and see
Revelation 6:8 And I looked, and behold, a pale horse, and his name that sat on him WAS DEATH, and the grave followed after him, and POWER WAS GIVEN TO THEM (the image of the BEAST, the kingdom of GOD) over the forth part of the earth, to KILL with the SWORD (the word of God), and with HUNGER (no bread of life), and with DEATH, and with the BEAST of the EARTH (those that carry the mark of the BEAST: the kingdom of God.
Revelation 12:16 And the earth HELPED the WOMAN, and the earth OPENED her MOUTH (DEATH and the grave), and swallowed up the FLOOD (people, tongues and nations) which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Psalms 7:13 He hath also prepared for him the INSTRUMENTS of DEATH; he ORDAINED his ARROWS against the persecutors.
Jeremiah 51:29 THOU (those that carry the MARK) are my battle axe and WEAPONS of WAR (arrows, the word of GOD); for with THEE (the saints, the BODY of Christ, the IMAGE of the BEAST) WILL I break in pieces the NATIONS, and with THEE will I destroy kingdoms.
Revelation 2:27 ...to him that overcometh, WILL I give POWER over the NATIONS .....
God Bless You!
You're changing the narrative to strengthen your point.
You said,
Just because you strive for righteousness and strive to walk in Jesus's example does not mean you're trying to earn heaven.
We agree on striving for righteousness and strive to walk in Jesus's example! When did you get that?
You also said, "You think the 10 commandments apply- obviously the argument that since Jesus it's ok to do "whatever" is a weak argument"
I've never heard anyone say that on this site, in fact for years we've made it very very clear that the commandments was Holy and they were to show man he is a sinner.
The emphasis has always been on man and his inability to keep the commandments and man's fallen sinful nature.
Is man sinful? Yes!
Has all sinned? Yes!
Romans 3:10
1 John 1:8-10.
Can the commandments make him right with God? No! Galatians 2:21.
It has never been anything close to an argument whether killing, stealing, adultery, ect was a sin or not on this site, and you know that.
There's plenty sins we make that is not listed in the 10 commandments, We sin in our mind and heart, Lack of patience and trust in God is a sin.
You can sin doing the right thing because you didn't want to. Our rebellious nature is sinful.
The Power of Christ resurrection didn't just atone for your sins, it also quickened you to live a live a productive life in Christ, pleasing to God. Romans 8:9-13.
And even with this power and energy from the Holyspirit you can't come from underneath the blood of Christ.
Scripture teaches if a man continues in sin he's not saved. You call that a straw man's argument. But I'm sure you will admit that all have sinned.
You've said no one knows whether they are saved or not until the judgment, But if we're saved by keeping the law it should be clear to you that we're all condemned considering the strictness of the law, then how do God judge his people? He'd have to compromise if Galatians 2:16 isn't true.
God bless.
You can check the accuracy of this by using (King James Pure Bible search)
The 1st verse in the Bible, and the last verse in the Bible are,
( Gen 1:1) IN the beginning God created the heaven and the EARTH.
( Rev 22:21) THE grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. AMEN.
The 1st word and the last word of the 1st and last verses of the KJB are (IN) (EARTH) (THE) AND (AMEN)
There are 77777 mentions of these words in the KJB! In the KJB ONLY!!
The 1st word in the KJB and the last word in the KJB are (IN) and (Amen)
There are 777 mentions of these two words in the books of Genesis and Revelation in the KJB! In the KJB ONLY!!
The word (seven) is #7651 in Hebrew; it means from 7650; a primitive cardinal number; seven (as the sacred full one) 7650; means to be complete.
( Rev 1:11) Jesus Christ is speaking here: "Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last"
Jesus Christ IS the first and the last.
The KJB is the Perfect Word of God. This is only a small example of how perfect His Words truly are.
All modern version bibles change the words of God which completely throws this perfect pattern of God's signature off, they have perverted the Words of the living God ( Jer 23:36) (perverted) #2015; it means ((to change))
EVERY WORD OF GOD IS PURE ( Proverbs 30 :5-6) 6"Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar"
If you want to see more of these perfect patterns in the KJB just google (Truth is Christ) on youtube.
Blessings to all who seek His Truth!
Truth matters!
Great description!
God bless
When we remain close to the Cross we remain close to the Commandments and they are not a burden to us as His yoke is easy. We can rest in this day in peace and gladness. Jesus is our new day. I believe the Christian's reasonable service is to point to this day in our non-resistant lives and actions by grace.
"For the Lord knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish."
Job was a righteous man. " But he knoweth the way that I take: when he hath tried me, I shall come forth as gold."( Job 23:10) His patience was a virtue, which was not his patrimony but taught of God in the midst of the fire that tried him daily. 'Behold, we consider those blessed who remained steadfast. You have heard of the steadfastness of Job, and you have seen the purpose of the Lord, how the Lord is compassionate and merciful."( James 5:11-ESV) Do we not see faith in the manner he received it each day? He did not change his stance while to his friends it smacked of mulishness to hold on still to righteousness. It was obvious to the whole world 'here is a wreck, in body and worldly goods! Instead of speaking what was right they did injury to holiness of God to which we shall come anon.
Was Job guilty of pride, to hold onto his righteousness? He knew faith in God's mercy that made him weather the storm about his hearth,- for daily it came in waves. His unfortunate wife was lost in the domestic tragedies she could not understand. St James speaks of mercy which has the righteousness of the Son and also a form,- this was the fourth presence in the story of the Three Hebrew Children Thrown Into The Furnace. Only with experience or growing in grace we begin to appreciate the verses in the Book of Lamentations. "The steadfast love of the LORD never ceases; his mercies never come to an end;/ they are new every morning; great is your faithfulness."(Lam.3:22-23). In a nutshell the grace of Jesus Christ works from within, and 'Christ in me' is not making a show for fools. Consider Jesus who refused the Jews who would want a sign from him. We are living in the same similar wicked and adulterous generation. Till he comes to gather his saints we shall see fools of the same stripe, only that they call it 'prosperity.' They are the chaff.
"And whatsoever he doeth shall prosper./The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away".(vv.3-4)
Ungodly are those who have not the Son. ( 1 John 2:23). We see several examples in the history of Israel where they made light of the commandments of God. "Be ye holy for I am holy."
How did the sons of Aaron serve God?
"And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the Lord, which he commanded them not./ And there went out fire from the Lord, and devoured them, and they died before the Lord./Then Moses said unto Aaron, This is it that the Lord spake, saying, I will be sanctified in them that come nigh me, and before all the people I will be glorified. And Aaron held his peace."(Le.10:1-3)
When God presented his Son to the world it was not as a teacher but as the Savior of the world. ( John 3:16) "And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him." (He. 1:6). Without giving glory to God and his Word we pride of belonging as citizens of nations. How nations flounder under their own conceit? "Hath a nation changed their gods, which are yet no gods? but my people have changed their glory for that which doth not profit. Be astonished, O ye heavens, at this, and be horribly afraid, be ye very desolate, saith the LORD. (Je.2:11-13)
It pleased God the Father that in Jesus Christ should all fullness dwell. (Col.1:18) So our witnessing can only work with the true Light where he is the Way.
The chaff is what will-worship wants to achieve as against God and his glory above all.
BY faith in Jesus who died for our sins; and the forgiving of those sins; many will be judged and hopefully saved to live as Angels
I dont think my comments contradict anything in the Bible. They are not meant to do so. They are only my thoughts and I appreciate anyone commenting on them and teaching me and even adding new aspects to my thoughts. Debating, free speech and discussion is good for mind, body and souls; but it also can confuse. So take care. Thanks 4 your reply
(2/2)
What it means to live by fruit of our lips? "From the fruit of his mouth a man eats what is good, but the desire of the treacherous is for violence."(Pr.13:2-ESV) Mouth that utters knowledge is compared to the plants and how fruit develops from flowers. Think of Maigret's painting 'The Son of Man'. Where the lips ought to be we see the apple under his bowler hat. The Spirit similarly transfers the fruit of the word hidden in his soul into works that can be understood. "A man's belly shall be satisfied with the fruit of his mouth;andwith the increase of his lips shall he be filled."(Pr.18:20)
In Deuteronomy we see the word connecting heart of man where belly represents the inner man and mouth, the world of the flesh and blood. Moses admonishes the nation, "Therefore choose life." (De.30:14,19) How did the nation of Israel choose? "The governor again said to them, "Which of the two do you want me to release for you?" And they said, "Barabbas." (Matt.27:21-ESV)
Lips from the above can be lifted to represent the state and the Word of God, as Moses and Aaron represented the civil and ecclesiastical governments respectively. The children of darkness chose Barabbas because he was one of them. Such choices mark the history of the church. Pagan state versus the early church was one such moment and who won, not the word of God. Advent of Luther and Calvin did not help the case either. The miry clay of church still struggles to come to compromise with the nationalism representing the state. Jesus rejected the idea of setting a civil government before he had perfected the will of his Father. ( John 18:36). Yet temporal power is so attractive to those who serve both God and man; and they need not expect any reward beyond the mess they helped create. Look about us to see what I mean.
"And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper./The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away."
Here we are looking at the river which came from the water above the firmament and the tree of life in particular. In the Genesis account we have a garden planted by God. Out of the ground He caused this garden to take shape. This garden is isolated from its natural circumstances for our instruction. So we are looking at the world of the Spirit, all the ethnicity of peoples, flora and fauna associated with the natural world are brushed out of the snapshot as it were. The Spirit tells us of heavenly places in which we were blessed with all spiritual blessings in Christ, -the Tree of life. Here we are meditating upon what was in the mind of God. Humanity of Jesus compares him to to a plant. So when Jesus said "Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be rooted up. Let them alone," we shall locate our position as many branches of this tree. Isaiah says thus"For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground:"(Is.53:2)
By his death and resurrection he caused the roots tap untold resources from His Father's storehouse so that no one may tell how God provided for them spiritually as well as whatever needful for their daily needs.
St John in the following text tells 'whosoever born of God does not sin'. Those who are born of God must show who they are in their moderation and their sober living. "We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not./And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.:
vv.1-2
Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
As Christians what is our hope? "When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.:(Col.3:4). God has blessed us with all spiritual blessings in his Son and the Psalm teaches how we should conduct ourselves. God blessed us for a purpose so we are to attend to where we stand and with whom, "If God be for us who can be against us? (Ro.8:31). St Paul writes "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose."(Ro.8:28)
How often we find examples of those who started well but somewhere lost their wind along the way. It is daunting to take up the challenge by our own strengths. "Thy word have I hid in mine heart, That I might not sin against thee. Blessed art thou, O LORD: Teach me thy statutes.(Ps.119:11-12). After having entered to race according to our calling how on earth can we hang about the fleshpots of Egypt as it were? "For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:/Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)(Ph.3:18-19)
"But his delight is in the law of theLord; and in his law doth he meditate day and night."
This account of Lazarus in Hades, to my reading, stands out as one totally different to the rest of Jesus' parables. In fact, I would even place it in the same category as John 14:2,3. I hope we believe that Jesus was truthfully speaking of "mansions" or 'rooms' in His Father's House. Or, maybe He wasn't & just wanting to comfort & assure His disciples that they wouldn't be forgotten at His appearing. Now I can hear some saying that there's no such thing as "mansions" in Heaven & this message to them was simply figurative. Should we believe this account & not the other? Or, maybe reject both? What would make one account truthful & the other not? Individual perceptions are very strong based on a variety of factors that bear upon us, even when we read from the same Bible. GBU.
666 refers in sequence body spirit and soul which is short of 777. The beast whose authority came from the dragon had no use for the word of God. So his body, spirit and soul were equally marked as condemned. The dragon in Re.13 has seven heads because he is the son of God gone rogue. But his 10 horns indicate he is under the wrath which explains the Decalogue. So whoever rejects the word of God is marked 666 and belongs to Satan. God shall not judge but has left all judgment to the Son. So till the Great White Throne the number 666 stays.
In Re.16 we have a hint from the Spirit that Satan, anti-christ and the beast are in agreement: "And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet./For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, "(vv.13-14)
To me the sabbath can be confusing, because its somewhat tied to Jewish culture, and there are a few verses like this below that Jesus said that makes it possibly "appear" less important...
"And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:" Mark 2:27 KJV
Also the people accused Jesus of breaking the sabbath like by healing people, etc. Jesus's answer:
"Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy it?" Luke 6:9 KJV
Jesus didn't say the sabbath no longer applies, but he seemed to push back on people criticizing him for doing good on that day. They were extremely accusatory and hypocritical and Jesus tried to clarify what the sabbath was for, that its ok to do good, and to put the Pharisees in their place. That is my current short interpretation.
"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Romans 8:1 KJV
No condemnation for who? "to them which are in Christ Jesus"
How about those who aren't really "in" Christ Jesus, but just familiar. Maybe someone's "saved" 30 years ago and inactive since? Maybe doing worldly things here and there, but hey we're all sinners, right? Maybe I'm just following the holy spirit, so its not my fault for indulging in sin sometimes, right?" [satan's deception]
"no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh"
"I'm still saved if I walk after the flesh though, right?"
"who walk not after the flesh"
This is a qualifier. It doesn't say there's no condemnation to anyone and everyone. It also says those who walk not after the flesh. Those who aren't actively, intentionally sinning. Sinning is turning your back on God. Sinning is like slapping Jesus in the face. Satan is trying to convince Christians that the law doesn't apply, that it's ok to sin. It's not ok. Sin leads to death and still will without Jesus. That is not a license to sin, however. Following Jesus means being a "slave" to righteousness- an intentional effort to take Jesus seriously and truly follow Him. Many say it, few do it. Just because you strive for righteousness and strive to walk in Jesus's example does not mean you're trying to earn heaven. This is the number one straw man argument people keep repeating over and over. Some even take it to the extreme where they say God doesn't want you to obey Him. "It's bad to obey God, and good to NOT obey Him." Who does that sound like?
Some cherry pick scripture and ignore the following and obedience part. We're still saved by grace.
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." Matthew 5:17 KJV
"not come to destroy"
Luke 6:46 - real followers obey
I do not believe the Bible supports your conclusion as to how one should handle the parable in Luke 16 if there is no other passage supporting the historical literal nature of the "events" described. God has placed this "parable" in the Bible to teach Spiritual truth related to the Gospel.
The Bible is replete with "parabolic" language that is not literally historical, but figurative. For example, Christ is not a literal "Lamb", and Christ will not be returning on a literal "white horse" with a literal "sword" protruding from His mouth nor will the True Believers return fighting a literal battle with "bows and arrows", etc. This is "parabolic", figurative language.
And we don't have to look at churches that claim extra Biblical revelation for deviation from Scripture. We need only look at the Baptists, the Methodist, the Presbyterians, the Reformed, the Lutherans, etc. in order to see tremendous deviation amongst them and many doctrines and practices contrary to what the Bible teaches. And in our day, an acceleration of departing from the Bible as their ultimate authority.
This is why God's judgment is upon the churches and why Matt 24, Mark 13, 1 Pet 4:17 and 2 Thess 2 are now in play. This is the Day in which we are living, the Great Tribulation. The "fig tree", "National Israel", is in "leaf", but bearing no "fruit" and this will continue until Christ returns to at the Last Day.
But what you said about the DNA is not correct. One's DNA is not altered by a vaccine anymore that by the meat or other foods we eat. The nourishment of food is broken down and goes into every cell of our body. So we should not fear our DNA being changed against God's will for how each person's DNA is unique to them. God is able to preserve our bodily integrity down to the DNA, even to the amino acid molecules that make up the DNA and to the atoms that make up the elements that constitute our bodies.
I praise God for we are fearfully and wonderfully made!
I retired from teaching Kindergarten a few years ago. I was so glad to be able to do so because of what you are experience with such young children who are violent, unruly, disruptive to class instruction, hurting other children and staff, and not being properly disciplined by administrators that think that not having consequences to wrong behavior is better for the child. This bothered my very deeply because I know that this approach is harmful to these children with disturbing behaviors and to those children who are victimized by them. No five year old should be experiencing this abuse in school!
I feel for you LaTonya. As teachers, our hands were tied. We were told that, by law, we cannot put our hands on the children to prevent them from hurting others or to keep them from running out of the classroom or away from adults. Most parents and people in the community do not know how terrible the situation is in schools now, nor how the laws passed by legislators who do not know what is really happening in schools affect the school community. So much time is spent in class addressing these children and/or making all the class exit the classroom so that the problem child can trash the room, throw things like chairs, etc. so much learning opportunity is lost due to this approach. One classroom evacuation takes about 15 -20 minutes out of the school day and this can happen multiple times a day in some classes.
I will pray for you, LaTonya, for this situation is so concerning for you. I pray for your safety, for the Lord to reduce your stress levels, and to open doors to a more appropriate and healthy work situation.