Thank you Giannis for your comprehensive comment on this. It was interesting to learn that the KJB translators used the Septuagint in reference to Matthew 1:23 (from Isaiah 7:14) instead of the Masoretic text.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God./ The same was in the beginning with God."
In the beginning is a tag by which the Spirit begins the creation account (Ge.1:1) on one part and 'in the beginning John 1:1-2 is the other part. Thus two narrative strands from God the Father and the Son are hinged as one by the tag,'In the beginning'. Similarly the night vision of Daniel (Dan.7:10-13-14) ties up with the inaugural vision of St John. These composite imagery of God and Man allows predestination to work. The same truth whether presented from God or Man is same because the Word which is the word of truth. It sanctifies everyone."They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world./ Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth"( John 17:16-17).
The word of truth, and it is what Jesus Christ as the Son of man revealed what was in the bosom of his Father and what are we if we merely treat it literally? Gospel is one but heresies are what man with carnal wisdom make of it. "You brood of vipers! How can you speak good, when you are evil? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks." (Matt.12:34)" A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.( Luke 6:45)
And yes, the 'Jew is under Electionrequiring only faith'. And so it was pre-Cross, as many from the Elect (of Israel) were accounted righteous & faithful, the blood of the Cross being applied to them, cleansing & justifying them before God. But after Jesus paid the price for our sin, even the Elect (of Israel) & those of the Gentiles now in Christ, are joined together as the Elect of God. Many of the Jews were "cut off" & the Gentiles were engrafted into the tree, but they were "broken offbecause of unbelief", not just to make room for Gentiles. The fact that they were removed means that we could be partakers of those blessings and "many sons might be brought unto glory" ( Hebrews 2:10).
This conversation has been good Daruled, but I will generally be offline for the next few weeks, so please excuse my absence. Blessings.
Thank you Daruled for your explanation of 'abrogation' & how you understand the word in this context.
But to the "old ready to vanish away" & your illustration of 'putting away childish things as we mature'; I can see that those things can indeed 'shape us to who we are today as adults', but in the context of Scripture, I have two problems with this: this would certainly be the case with Israel who were given the Law, & hopefully with the help of the Holy Spirit when some would be saved (e.g. Saul, the disciples), that Law would have been more meaningful to them in their spiritual transition. What then happens to those "who have not the Law", how would that Law which they knew nothing about, nor ever given, shape them?
And secondly, we are 'to put away childish things as we mature'. I see 'putting away' as an abrogation of those things - if not, then it would not be unreasonable for me to go back to my 'box of toys' (as an adult) to begin playing with them. And I would think that anyone witnessing this behavior, would begin to have serious doubts about my mental & emotional state. I therefore see, that this 'putting away', is a 'casting away entirely', for the Law under the Old Covenant has nothing to do with those under the Spirit-given Law, the New Covenant; i.e. I simply cannot put my hand back into my toy box to even pull out that favorite toy - I can glance into the 'box' now & then, & see what I was before as a child (under the Law), but I should be careful not to 'toy' with its contents. Onto Page 2.
Very true, Bob, I agree. It is however unfortunate that at the time of printing the Bible, letter cases weren't given the importance it deserved. I'm particularly sensitive to that as well, even applying caps to, for example, possessive nouns (e.g. God's Glory). It all depends how one is taught I suppose. Having said that, I've noticed & with my apology, "(i.e. God;s)" in my text, was a result of finger trouble or carelessness, or maybe both.
Israel of old in a way represents the natural man at his best.
They were a nation separated from a pagan Idolizing world and instructed by God with God in their midst.
They displays the nature of man who's joined to a living soul. (Adam).
(This is an example where religion does not save.)
Sin is not only what you do that condemns you. It's also who you are that condemns you. "A sinner!
Education about right on wrong can't save you, it can only convict you,
However, this lesson and conviction is necessary for the preparation of the Gospel. That's was their purpose.
There is only one that can save you and that's the last Adam. he is a quickening spirit. (Life giving Spirit.) Christ.
There has to be a transition from the first Adam to the last Adam and that is seen in baptism of the Holyspirit. Romans 6:3-4.
Look at the order of events here in Romans 6:22-23.
1st) But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God,
2nd) ye have your fruit unto holiness,
3rd) and the end everlasting life.
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. ( The Gift is eternal life by that life giving Spirit. Jesus)
Romans 8:11. speaks on the quickening spirit that raised Jesus from the dead quickening our mortal bodies to bare fruit unto life.
Romans 8:12-16 sums this all up.
"Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:" This is the gift of eternal life shown in sanctification.
This is also what James is saying in James 2:17-18.
It is still better understood that if a Mother is mentioned, then she must be the first in line to her children & their children. It cannot work backwards, i.e. if there were humans before Eve & then she was called 'Mother' to those before her. Even, the Apostle Paul (in 1 Corinthians 15:45) stated, "...The FIRST MAN Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit." If the "first man" was not really the first man then anything we feel about it or believe is correct, will only be from speculation, or from science (as you wrote).
What pleasure to read again the many lessons onfolded by each chapter every verse and line. Lord willing with His care I shall attempt to hide Gods Word in my heart. So I may not sin against Him. That His Word might come to memory as I apply it. To the One Lord God do I give him thanks for His years of my enjoyment in His most precious Word. For His glory and honour.
Lord Jesus- I pray for all our children- please have your Holy Spirit guide them to your path keep them safe and protect their beautiful hearts of flesh.
I pray my daughter Tatiyana realizes how much her daughter is worth.
Chris thank you for your time and a very good respectful conversation on this subject, I do enjoy them, and hopefully they will be fruitful for others who read them as well.
I will only say one more thing Chris.
You said "preserved in the essence of what God wanted to tell us". The way I see that is God would tell us absolutely nothing but the Truth. If God was involved in the translation (and He was) then His Words are 100% pure, sound, uncontaminated. God cannot lie and He would not give us anything that's a half truth, or errors, so everybody who reads and studies the KJB will be able to rightly divide the word of truth ( 2 Tim 2:15) ( 1 Cor 1:10)
I don't see this at all. If there was no one else living, how could she be the mother of all living? Obviously, the world was already populated when Adam was created and, after the fall, Eve spiritually became their mother. This is not only perfectly in line with Genesis but it also lines up with what we know from science.
Once again Jimbob, thank you. I won't address each point as this can go on ad infinitum without finding agreement. Your belief is that the KJB is the Bible referred to, in the Scriptures you gave (such as in Psalm 12:6,7). This is a good example of how the Scriptures are mishandled. This passage in Psalm 12 is given to show the purity of God's Word & its everlasting nature. The mention of "silver tried in a furnacepurified seven times", shows indeed how pure & without error that Word from the LORD was - nothing at all to do with KJB translators taking seven years to produce this Bible.
As well, those Words uttered by God will never change & will never be lost - again showing us the abiding nature of what God has spoken & given. What has now been produced centuries later is the best we have, given how documents & fragments were preserved, collected, & translated. No translation, past or present, can ever reflect perfectly what God spoke to His prophets & servants (& then their recording) - we just need to satisfy ourselves that what we read now does align in the best possible way to the texts that were gathered.
So some turn & hold to the KJB, others reject it, even by many well-studied in biblical history & in document & text analysis, refuting our claim of the superiority of the KJB over other works, giving their preference to other versions. So to answer your last question: the "preserved" Words of God are what we have now. Preserved to the very letter? Never - but preserved in the essence of what God wants to tell us, with that Word being Spirit-generated (as it was given to the prophets of old), able to cut deep into our soul & spirit ( Hebrews 4:12).
And as I wrote, to address each of your other points would take too long & I see no value in doing so anyway, knowing how we read the Scriptures on this matter particularly. As well, I will be on vacation for about six weeks, so thank you for your time brother & may you daily experience His blessings.
I really don't want to get back into a critical discussion with you as to your belief regarding the KJV or to impinge on your discussion with Chris. As I have in several comments stated my understanding regarding the Nature of the Bible, the KJV, and what I believe to be God's stated methodology for Bible interpretation.
However, I am curious about your methodology for in depth Bible study:
Have you ever used a Concordance or an interlinear based upon the KJV to do a word study of any kind in order to understand how God uses a specific Greek or Hebrew word or phrase THROUGHOUT the Bible?
And also, can you state the principles you use for Bible interpretation and your Scriptural basis for those principles?
About Isaiah 7::14, the Hbr should be translated as " young woman", not "virgin", that is why there is a difference from Genesis 24:16. This is how it is always written in the Hebrew Bibles (Tanakh). So why did the KJB translators preferred the term virgin? Because this how it is written by Matthew in his gospel when he is referring to Isaiah's prophesy about Jesus' birth.. But Matthew follows the Septuagint text of the Old Testament, not the Masoretic. And in the Septuagint it is written "the virgin" And here comes the surprising thing. Although the KJB uses the Masoretic text for the Old Testament in this particular verse they use the Septuagint. Actually this verse is a verse where one part (Hebrews and christians) calls the others forgers. The Hebrews say the christians changed the text to fit Jesus' birth (how is that possible since the Septuagint was written 3 centuries BC?) and the christians say the Hebrews changed it later on to delete any reference to Christ. Just for information. GBU
And He earnestly warned them not to tell who He was. ( Mark 3:12).
This and 22 other verses apparently exist in the Gospels where Jesus warned either people or the demons cast out of individuals not to tell anyone who He was. This seems to be particularly focused on the area where the Jews were; for we see exceptions with these examples:
They went across the lake to the region of the Gerasenes. ( Mark 5:1). Here after Jesus cast the legion of demons out of a man he told him to NOT follow Him right away "Go home to your own people and tell them how much the Lord has done for you, and how he has had mercy on you." ( Mark 5:19).
We see the same principal with the woman at the well. John 4 doesn't give any explicit command for the woman to stop; but she goes to her town and brings others; who come to faith and He remains 2 days with an unnamed town of Samaritans who also come to faith after hearing from Christ after the woman told them to come.
These incidences above show how the contrast exists with the Pharisees and religious order who were hell bent literally to oppose and try to destroy Christ from the onset. Christ had to ensure that His time wouldn't come until 3 1/2 years after he started the public ministry; as it was there were about 10 attempts on His life before the Crucifixion at the set time. This also showed a lack of faith in general among His own people; a Prophet is not honored in his hometown ( Mark 6:4). Contrast that with the pasage above and others where He stayed multiple days and no doubt they didn't want Him to leave.
This situation lead; no doubt to Jesus speaking in Parables which at one point at least He ONLY did when speaking to the crowds. ( Matthew 13:34; Mark 4:34). This is quite astonishing and shows how facts alone don't convince hardened hearts. Perhaps it allowed less people to blasphemy the Spirit the unforgiveable sin or cause other to be persuaded such ( Matthew 12:31).
You go on to say "In fact no Scripture ever points to the KJB being the translation of the future that preserves God's Word perfectly. If one thinks that, then that person is forcing the Scriptures to point to the KJB when it doesn't". Sorry Chris but that is only your opinion, you have no way to prove that statement. ( Ps 12:6) "The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times". 7 years!
(pure) #2889; it means pure (in a physical, ceremonial or moral sense) clean, sound, unadulterated. uncontaminated, morally innocent of holy.
If you think these pure words spoken of here are the manuscripts then how do you explain ( 2 Tim 3:16) "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness'. Can we use the manuscripts for reproof today, can they correct us, can we use them for instruction in righteousness today? NO WE CANNOT!
What about ( 2 Tim 2:15) "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth". (rightly dividing the word of truth)
We are told to Study to shew ourselves approved unto God. Study what? Can we study the manuscripts? NO WE CANNOT!
( 2 Pet 1:19-21) v20 "that (no prophecy of the) (scripture) is of any private interpretation"
The word (scripture) is #1124; it means a document, i.e. holy Writ (or its contents or a statement in it)
( 2 Tim 3:16) "All (scripture) is given by inspiration of God" same meaning as above. (a document)
( 2 Tim 2:15) "Study to shew thyself approved unto God" Again study what? We study scripture, the same scripture mentioned in ( 2 Pet 1:19-21)
I've got a question for you Chris? If you don't believe ( Ps 12:6-7) is a promise from God to preserve His Words for the time we live in now but think the only preserved words are in the manuscripts, where are the verses to PROVE that in the Word of God?
You said "When Peter declared this Truth to his readers". At the time Peter wrote these 2 Epistles it was around 60 AD. How far could the reach of hearing those words possibly be in 60 AD when we look at the size and population of the whole world? Chris these books are prophecy for us today. WE ARE HIS READERS!
You also said "These revelations were not of private interpretation (Gk. unloosing, unpacking) they weren't written as from man's determination, but by the "moving of the Holy Spirit upon them". I'm not sure what you mean here (Gk. unloosing, unpacking) but as for the Old Testament prophets being moved by the Holy Spirit? Can you provide verses as proof the OT prophets were moved by the Holy Spirit?
God spoke directly to the Old Testament prophets Chris. The words "Thus saith the LORD" show up 415 times.
In 60 AD why would Peter be concerned about telling the people (at that time) that the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man; but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost? They did already have the Hebrew manuscripts at that time, and one would think that they had complete faith and trust in them at that time.
Read (2 Pet Ch.2) This is prophecy for us today!
You also said "Nothing at all pointing to the KJB in these verses or any of the verses you've cited now and previously as supposedly referring to the KJB as one having pure words..purified seven times".
I don't want to offend you Chris but I'm not sure how closely you are reading these comments!
( Ps 12:6-7) Clearly points to seven times in which a time is 1 year, seven times is equal to the 7 years it took to translate the KJB, there's a major reference pointing to the KJB and it also promises God will preserve His Word for ever! ( Ps 12:7) Clearly tells us God preserved His Word from this generation for ever. FOR EVER!
I do agree with what you say, but you say "next time it shall be easier to say no." But I ask what "makes it easier"? Part of being trained in righteousness is not "blindly" doing what you are told. Otherwise we are no more than drones. God doesn't want us to "act" righteous, no, my Father Commands that I be Righteous! What is the difference, you ask? Mistakes. You see, if I simply follow the rules, even the rules of God, I remain unknowing thereby leaving "the door" open for sin; because God says "no!", and satan asks "why not?!". If I don't have an answer for satan's question then doubt will worm it's way in me. But, if I do have an answer The Protection of God is my reward! The TRUE question is how: How do I get The Answer? And the answer to that question is: make mistakes & Learn from them! You see, if satan tempts me to play with fire (i.e. sin), if I think that there is a way to "make it work for my good" then it will gnaw at my mind incessantly until I partake of it; with the end result being that I'm guilty of transgression. But, if I have, in making many mistakes until I UNDERSTAND that there is no way that I will not "get burned" by playing with fire; there is Absolutely Nothing that satan can tempt me with! Thus, satan is rendered powerless because he doesn't even have the power to even tempt me. And all this was learned from God allowing me to make mistakes (sin) & learn from them. (Note: God allowing me to make a mistake (sin) is NOT the same as giving permission to sin)
Your "HIGHLIGHTS" really emphasise the messages perfectly, and the scripture language is so easy to read/understand, no commentary is really needed, as the strength of each of these verses speak mightily.
Sorting out the firstfruits: From Christ to the 144,000
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. ( 1 Cor. 15:20-22).
Revelation 5:9-10 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Revelation 14:1-5
1And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. 2And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: 3And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. 4These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 5And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
As I mentioned in earlier postings; the firstfruits originated with Christ Himself being lifted up; those who rose from the dead (a sort of gleaning) in Matthew 27:53. Then there is the Rapture where the church appears in Revelation 5 (although firstfruits isn't in that text) and finally the 144,000 mentioned as firstfruits in Rev. 14. It would seem that in this case those of Jewish descent would be the focus here. There is a new song shared here along with the church in Revelation 5. It would seem the 144,000 come after the midpoint of the Tribulation.
"The Word"
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God./ The same was in the beginning with God."
In the beginning is a tag by which the Spirit begins the creation account (Ge.1:1) on one part and 'in the beginning John 1:1-2 is the other part. Thus two narrative strands from God the Father and the Son are hinged as one by the tag,'In the beginning'. Similarly the night vision of Daniel (Dan.7:10-13-14) ties up with the inaugural vision of St John. These composite imagery of God and Man allows predestination to work. The same truth whether presented from God or Man is same because the Word which is the word of truth. It sanctifies everyone."They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world./ Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth"( John 17:16-17).
The word of truth, and it is what Jesus Christ as the Son of man revealed what was in the bosom of his Father and what are we if we merely treat it literally? Gospel is one but heresies are what man with carnal wisdom make of it. "You brood of vipers! How can you speak good, when you are evil? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks." (Matt.12:34)" A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.( Luke 6:45)
And yes, the 'Jew is under Electionrequiring only faith'. And so it was pre-Cross, as many from the Elect (of Israel) were accounted righteous & faithful, the blood of the Cross being applied to them, cleansing & justifying them before God. But after Jesus paid the price for our sin, even the Elect (of Israel) & those of the Gentiles now in Christ, are joined together as the Elect of God. Many of the Jews were "cut off" & the Gentiles were engrafted into the tree, but they were "broken offbecause of unbelief", not just to make room for Gentiles. The fact that they were removed means that we could be partakers of those blessings and "many sons might be brought unto glory" ( Hebrews 2:10).
This conversation has been good Daruled, but I will generally be offline for the next few weeks, so please excuse my absence. Blessings.
Thank you Daruled for your explanation of 'abrogation' & how you understand the word in this context.
But to the "old ready to vanish away" & your illustration of 'putting away childish things as we mature'; I can see that those things can indeed 'shape us to who we are today as adults', but in the context of Scripture, I have two problems with this: this would certainly be the case with Israel who were given the Law, & hopefully with the help of the Holy Spirit when some would be saved (e.g. Saul, the disciples), that Law would have been more meaningful to them in their spiritual transition. What then happens to those "who have not the Law", how would that Law which they knew nothing about, nor ever given, shape them?
And secondly, we are 'to put away childish things as we mature'. I see 'putting away' as an abrogation of those things - if not, then it would not be unreasonable for me to go back to my 'box of toys' (as an adult) to begin playing with them. And I would think that anyone witnessing this behavior, would begin to have serious doubts about my mental & emotional state. I therefore see, that this 'putting away', is a 'casting away entirely', for the Law under the Old Covenant has nothing to do with those under the Spirit-given Law, the New Covenant; i.e. I simply cannot put my hand back into my toy box to even pull out that favorite toy - I can glance into the 'box' now & then, & see what I was before as a child (under the Law), but I should be careful not to 'toy' with its contents. Onto Page 2.
I do believe that is great advice.
It's exactly what I am working on.
I haven't read anything from the site besides your post.
Here's where truth hurts both sides.
I believe sometimes one can be over zealous in an area.
But truth in the doctrine of salvation is not one of them.
Thanks again and God bless you.
Much love.
Satan is not afraid of the truth; nor does he live in fear of his demise, BECAUSE he believes he KNOWS the TRUTH.
God Bless You!
Israel of old in a way represents the natural man at his best.
They were a nation separated from a pagan Idolizing world and instructed by God with God in their midst.
They displays the nature of man who's joined to a living soul. (Adam).
(This is an example where religion does not save.)
Sin is not only what you do that condemns you. It's also who you are that condemns you. "A sinner!
Education about right on wrong can't save you, it can only convict you,
However, this lesson and conviction is necessary for the preparation of the Gospel. That's was their purpose.
There is only one that can save you and that's the last Adam. he is a quickening spirit. (Life giving Spirit.) Christ.
There has to be a transition from the first Adam to the last Adam and that is seen in baptism of the Holyspirit. Romans 6:3-4.
Look at the order of events here in Romans 6:22-23.
1st) But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God,
2nd) ye have your fruit unto holiness,
3rd) and the end everlasting life.
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. ( The Gift is eternal life by that life giving Spirit. Jesus)
Romans 8:11. speaks on the quickening spirit that raised Jesus from the dead quickening our mortal bodies to bare fruit unto life.
Romans 8:12-16 sums this all up.
"Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:" This is the gift of eternal life shown in sanctification.
This is also what James is saying in James 2:17-18.
God bless.
know salvation of the lord jesus christ
no lord jesus christ
no salvation of the lord jesus christ
god bless all. september 3, 2023
Jesus Christ was the first king of Israel; but they rejected him, as has most of his creation to this day.
1 Samuel 8:6 But the thing displeased Samuel,when they said, Give us a KING ......
1 Samuel 8:7 ....for they have not rejected thee, but they have REJECTED ME to reign over them .....
God bless you!
I pray my daughter Tatiyana realizes how much her daughter is worth.
Touch her heart in the MIGHTY NAME OF JESUS!!
May God punish them- and show no mercy.
In Jesus mighty name I pray.
Amen
May the Holy Spirit protect their little hearts of flesh and keep them from hardening.
May these little angels know that JESUS is their protector and May all who hurt a child- feel their pain and sorrow in Jesus Mighty Name i Pray.
AMN
I will only say one more thing Chris.
You said "preserved in the essence of what God wanted to tell us". The way I see that is God would tell us absolutely nothing but the Truth. If God was involved in the translation (and He was) then His Words are 100% pure, sound, uncontaminated. God cannot lie and He would not give us anything that's a half truth, or errors, so everybody who reads and studies the KJB will be able to rightly divide the word of truth ( 2 Tim 2:15) ( 1 Cor 1:10)
God Bless you brother.
Prayers for a safe vacation.
As well, those Words uttered by God will never change & will never be lost - again showing us the abiding nature of what God has spoken & given. What has now been produced centuries later is the best we have, given how documents & fragments were preserved, collected, & translated. No translation, past or present, can ever reflect perfectly what God spoke to His prophets & servants (& then their recording) - we just need to satisfy ourselves that what we read now does align in the best possible way to the texts that were gathered.
So some turn & hold to the KJB, others reject it, even by many well-studied in biblical history & in document & text analysis, refuting our claim of the superiority of the KJB over other works, giving their preference to other versions. So to answer your last question: the "preserved" Words of God are what we have now. Preserved to the very letter? Never - but preserved in the essence of what God wants to tell us, with that Word being Spirit-generated (as it was given to the prophets of old), able to cut deep into our soul & spirit ( Hebrews 4:12).
And as I wrote, to address each of your other points would take too long & I see no value in doing so anyway, knowing how we read the Scriptures on this matter particularly. As well, I will be on vacation for about six weeks, so thank you for your time brother & may you daily experience His blessings.
I really don't want to get back into a critical discussion with you as to your belief regarding the KJV or to impinge on your discussion with Chris. As I have in several comments stated my understanding regarding the Nature of the Bible, the KJV, and what I believe to be God's stated methodology for Bible interpretation.
However, I am curious about your methodology for in depth Bible study:
Have you ever used a Concordance or an interlinear based upon the KJV to do a word study of any kind in order to understand how God uses a specific Greek or Hebrew word or phrase THROUGHOUT the Bible?
And also, can you state the principles you use for Bible interpretation and your Scriptural basis for those principles?
About Isaiah 7::14, the Hbr should be translated as " young woman", not "virgin", that is why there is a difference from Genesis 24:16. This is how it is always written in the Hebrew Bibles (Tanakh). So why did the KJB translators preferred the term virgin? Because this how it is written by Matthew in his gospel when he is referring to Isaiah's prophesy about Jesus' birth.. But Matthew follows the Septuagint text of the Old Testament, not the Masoretic. And in the Septuagint it is written "the virgin" And here comes the surprising thing. Although the KJB uses the Masoretic text for the Old Testament in this particular verse they use the Septuagint. Actually this verse is a verse where one part (Hebrews and christians) calls the others forgers. The Hebrews say the christians changed the text to fit Jesus' birth (how is that possible since the Septuagint was written 3 centuries BC?) and the christians say the Hebrews changed it later on to delete any reference to Christ. Just for information. GBU
This and 22 other verses apparently exist in the Gospels where Jesus warned either people or the demons cast out of individuals not to tell anyone who He was. This seems to be particularly focused on the area where the Jews were; for we see exceptions with these examples:
They went across the lake to the region of the Gerasenes. ( Mark 5:1). Here after Jesus cast the legion of demons out of a man he told him to NOT follow Him right away "Go home to your own people and tell them how much the Lord has done for you, and how he has had mercy on you." ( Mark 5:19).
We see the same principal with the woman at the well. John 4 doesn't give any explicit command for the woman to stop; but she goes to her town and brings others; who come to faith and He remains 2 days with an unnamed town of Samaritans who also come to faith after hearing from Christ after the woman told them to come.
These incidences above show how the contrast exists with the Pharisees and religious order who were hell bent literally to oppose and try to destroy Christ from the onset. Christ had to ensure that His time wouldn't come until 3 1/2 years after he started the public ministry; as it was there were about 10 attempts on His life before the Crucifixion at the set time. This also showed a lack of faith in general among His own people; a Prophet is not honored in his hometown ( Mark 6:4). Contrast that with the pasage above and others where He stayed multiple days and no doubt they didn't want Him to leave.
This situation lead; no doubt to Jesus speaking in Parables which at one point at least He ONLY did when speaking to the crowds. ( Matthew 13:34; Mark 4:34). This is quite astonishing and shows how facts alone don't convince hardened hearts. Perhaps it allowed less people to blasphemy the Spirit the unforgiveable sin or cause other to be persuaded such ( Matthew 12:31).
The TRUE presence of God causes division
Thanks for this repertoire of Scripture verses that speak to recent discussions here. These bless me today.
You go on to say "In fact no Scripture ever points to the KJB being the translation of the future that preserves God's Word perfectly. If one thinks that, then that person is forcing the Scriptures to point to the KJB when it doesn't". Sorry Chris but that is only your opinion, you have no way to prove that statement. ( Ps 12:6) "The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times". 7 years!
(pure) #2889; it means pure (in a physical, ceremonial or moral sense) clean, sound, unadulterated. uncontaminated, morally innocent of holy.
If you think these pure words spoken of here are the manuscripts then how do you explain ( 2 Tim 3:16) "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness'. Can we use the manuscripts for reproof today, can they correct us, can we use them for instruction in righteousness today? NO WE CANNOT!
What about ( 2 Tim 2:15) "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth". (rightly dividing the word of truth)
We are told to Study to shew ourselves approved unto God. Study what? Can we study the manuscripts? NO WE CANNOT!
( 2 Pet 1:19-21) v20 "that (no prophecy of the) (scripture) is of any private interpretation"
The word (scripture) is #1124; it means a document, i.e. holy Writ (or its contents or a statement in it)
( 2 Tim 3:16) "All (scripture) is given by inspiration of God" same meaning as above. (a document)
( 2 Tim 2:15) "Study to shew thyself approved unto God" Again study what? We study scripture, the same scripture mentioned in ( 2 Pet 1:19-21)
I've got a question for you Chris? If you don't believe ( Ps 12:6-7) is a promise from God to preserve His Words for the time we live in now but think the only preserved words are in the manuscripts, where are the verses to PROVE that in the Word of God?
I don't think there are any!
You said "When Peter declared this Truth to his readers". At the time Peter wrote these 2 Epistles it was around 60 AD. How far could the reach of hearing those words possibly be in 60 AD when we look at the size and population of the whole world? Chris these books are prophecy for us today. WE ARE HIS READERS!
You also said "These revelations were not of private interpretation (Gk. unloosing, unpacking) they weren't written as from man's determination, but by the "moving of the Holy Spirit upon them". I'm not sure what you mean here (Gk. unloosing, unpacking) but as for the Old Testament prophets being moved by the Holy Spirit? Can you provide verses as proof the OT prophets were moved by the Holy Spirit?
God spoke directly to the Old Testament prophets Chris. The words "Thus saith the LORD" show up 415 times.
In 60 AD why would Peter be concerned about telling the people (at that time) that the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man; but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost? They did already have the Hebrew manuscripts at that time, and one would think that they had complete faith and trust in them at that time.
Read (2 Pet Ch.2) This is prophecy for us today!
You also said "Nothing at all pointing to the KJB in these verses or any of the verses you've cited now and previously as supposedly referring to the KJB as one having pure words..purified seven times".
I don't want to offend you Chris but I'm not sure how closely you are reading these comments!
( Ps 12:6-7) Clearly points to seven times in which a time is 1 year, seven times is equal to the 7 years it took to translate the KJB, there's a major reference pointing to the KJB and it also promises God will preserve His Word for ever! ( Ps 12:7) Clearly tells us God preserved His Word from this generation for ever. FOR EVER!
see p2
I do agree with what you say, but you say "next time it shall be easier to say no." But I ask what "makes it easier"? Part of being trained in righteousness is not "blindly" doing what you are told. Otherwise we are no more than drones. God doesn't want us to "act" righteous, no, my Father Commands that I be Righteous! What is the difference, you ask? Mistakes. You see, if I simply follow the rules, even the rules of God, I remain unknowing thereby leaving "the door" open for sin; because God says "no!", and satan asks "why not?!". If I don't have an answer for satan's question then doubt will worm it's way in me. But, if I do have an answer The Protection of God is my reward! The TRUE question is how: How do I get The Answer? And the answer to that question is: make mistakes & Learn from them! You see, if satan tempts me to play with fire (i.e. sin), if I think that there is a way to "make it work for my good" then it will gnaw at my mind incessantly until I partake of it; with the end result being that I'm guilty of transgression. But, if I have, in making many mistakes until I UNDERSTAND that there is no way that I will not "get burned" by playing with fire; there is Absolutely Nothing that satan can tempt me with! Thus, satan is rendered powerless because he doesn't even have the power to even tempt me. And all this was learned from God allowing me to make mistakes (sin) & learn from them. (Note: God allowing me to make a mistake (sin) is NOT the same as giving permission to sin)
All great, true, and powerful verses!
Your "HIGHLIGHTS" really emphasise the messages perfectly, and the scripture language is so easy to read/understand, no commentary is really needed, as the strength of each of these verses speak mightily.
GBU
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. ( 1 Cor. 15:20-22).
Revelation 5:9-10 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Revelation 14:1-5
1And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. 2And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: 3And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. 4These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 5And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
As I mentioned in earlier postings; the firstfruits originated with Christ Himself being lifted up; those who rose from the dead (a sort of gleaning) in Matthew 27:53. Then there is the Rapture where the church appears in Revelation 5 (although firstfruits isn't in that text) and finally the 144,000 mentioned as firstfruits in Rev. 14. It would seem that in this case those of Jewish descent would be the focus here. There is a new song shared here along with the church in Revelation 5. It would seem the 144,000 come after the midpoint of the Tribulation.