...they must live their lives without human love , affection and comfort ? We know from a wealth of experience , what happens to people who are not permitted to give and receive human affection and romance , just look at the catholic church ! People who have had to live without physical love ( and I mean love not sex ) are deeply affected by this , it can cause all sorts of mental health issues . As a baby , and I mean a baby , i was denied affection . No one was allowed to cuddle me , I was only held when I was fed . As a consequence I'm not much of a hugger :) . It's a dangerous thing to deny a human the comfort of a loved ones cuddle and body heat . I would say that I am not to judge . They will stand before their Redeemer and He will pass judgement . I shall hold my peace .
Hi Gigi , yes this is a hot topic ! Human relationships always are because they involve human emotions which can be extremely powerful . My congregation in the past has been very strict on this matter . Brothers and sisters have even been disfellowshiped because they haven't married people from our denomination . As the decades have rolled by we are very slightly more lenient , but only slightly ! With regards to what to do about people who have married , as you put it , outside of the Lord's will : firstly we cannot be one hundred per cent sure that that is the case , people might disagree with me on this I'm sure :) . Remember that we are not under the law . When I first joined my congregation as a single young woman , a brother was interested in me and his wife , who had been a member , had left and divorced him but not for adultery . As it happened I was not conflicted about this because I wasn't attracted to him . However I did notice that his affection for me caused a stir among the other members . My best friend in the congregation was an elderly sister who had been married twice , ( to fellow members ) her first husband died and her second was divorced because his wife left him for another man . When she married her second husband they were both disfellowshiped instantly without any discussion . This was heart breaking to them as they are both devoted to God . After about a year , discussions started , they had to admit that what they had done was against scripture and repent but ! They were not forced to divorce , this is just adding sin to sin , plus I don't think that they would have divorced . Personally , I don't believe that falling in love is ever a sin , some times unadvisable :) but there is no sin in genuine love . We have had members choose to marry ' against scripture ' and have just left us rather than be kicked out :( this is very sad to me .God brings people into our lives for a reason , who are we to tell fellow Christians that...see 2
Rapture and Tribulation does not change Salvation and Grace, it just takes those who are ready. Tribulation is for God to get His people to turn back to Him and never want to turn again. Gentiles will be there too. The Anti-christ is the King of the North (from the tribe of Dan, Jewish decent)
Raptured before Tribulation are in Rev 5:9-10 in Heaven before Chapter 6,and so on.
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Thank you so much for responding to my question. When you ask: "When the state/people are punishing criminals, why is it surprising that God acts similarly?" My answer is that God is higher than us. His ways are not our ways. You also stated: "They wish a God who loves them, but they don't wish to love others." My response to that is that we cannot compare God to us. We can't judge what God does by what we do. We are trying to be like God. God is not trying to be like us! I am just not comfortable believing that God resorts to violence. I do, however, resonate with the part of your response that says: "It is true that we don't have answers to every question, but we can rely on that we believe in a righteous God who is determined to reward" Thank you, again for responding to my question.
When I read the statement: "The (Holy Ghost) first shows up in the Bible in the New Testament," my response (if I would have chosen to give one) would have been similar to GiGi's response.
True, Jimbob uses the term Holy Ghost, not Holy Spirit or Spirit of God, but are they not all the same Spirit?
So, if they are the same Spirit (which I believe they are), even though the term Holy Ghost is not mentioned in the Old Testament, the Holy Ghost/Holy Spirit/Spirit of God/Gods Spirit, whichever phrase you wish to use, can all be found working throughout the OT, regardless of which term is used.
If someone chooses to say Holy Ghost, and the other person chooses to say Holy Spirit or Spirit of God, it's all the same Spirit, and that Spirit (Holy Spirit/Holy Ghost) is found in the OT.
I do not see any mistreatment by GiGi here, and if Jimbob feels he is being mistreated, I think he would say so. He's been upfront with me in some of our conversations in the past so I think he would speak for himself if he felt that he was being mistreated. Just my thoughts!
Finally, I did consider responding before GiGi did, but there is a reason why I chose not to. I had a suspicion where this was headed right from the very beginning. It seems as though I chose wisely.
Thank you for this information. I do agree that the nail scars were visible in His hands. As far as being nailed in each foot, scripture does not give us that. Can you please share your source of that information?
Also, I am trying to figure out how the entire second half of your post has anything to do with the question that was asked. Can you help me out there also?
45 ...The first man Adam was made a living soul;the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual,but that which is natural;and afterward that which is spiritual.
Well, since the beginning the Word-i.e. GOD-had planned to make man in His image,but how once He is Spirit?GOD sent JESUS about 4000 years after Adam,the first earthly man.And JESUS said:My Father works hitherto,and I work- John 5:17.Notice that when JESUS said this, still very recently He was in the bosom of the Word- John 1:18-,but now He already was in person working together with the Word, i.e.GOD tghe Father, and it at the age 30 or so,then He revealed that His Father was still working, although it was the beginning of the fifth Day. But Jesus knew what He was talking about, so He said: I and my Father are One.
The Word-i.e. GOD-is Spirit. How could man see an image of the Spirit? What is its image of the Spirit? It would be impossible to describe, unless it be created materially, physically, its own image. This explains why Israel always was tempted by the Devil to create an image of GOD for to worship it, and they made even a golden calf.
According to the Word, first He needed to create an image from He Himself and that's what God did, and thus JESUS was born in the turn of the fourth to the fifth Day or in the turn of fourth to the fifth millennium. GOD sent JESUS, for"He loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. GOD sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world;but that the world through Him might be saved.He that believeth on Him is not condemned:but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the NAME of the only begotten Son of GOD, JESUS.And this is the condemnation,that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil"- John 3:v.16 to 19.
JESUS was nailed exactly in the center of His hands on the lines that form the figure of an M. And was also nailed in each foot , nailed close to the heel, in the calcaneus region.
Luke 24:36-43
36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and SUPPOSED that they HAD SEEN A SPIRIT.
38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for A SPIRIT HATH NOT FLESH AND BONES as ye see me have.
40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them His HANDS and his FEET.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.
In fact GOD allowed His Son JESUS to be taken to the slaughter like a sheep,but the way He would be killed was not chosen by GOD the Father,but by the Devil,that is the old Serpent,and Satan;and the object that was chosen by the Devil was the satanic CROSS for killing JESUS,for torturing Him,and for humiliation,and mockery, and for the most cruel suffering,until death.JESUS already knew the satanic plan of the Devil- Matthew 26:2-Ye know that after two days is the feast of the passover,and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified.
To take up the cross is to suffer for the love of JESUS,to suffer for the preaching of His Gospel,suffering to testify of His Word in the Devil's world,to suffer for the preaching of His teachings within the Devils's world,to suffer testifying of the redeeming work of JESUS for the corrupt world of Devil,whose work cost his own life by dying on the man-made cross, Devil's cross.Devil's cross that many have on their avatar,the satanic cross that devilish Catholicism kisses and adores, understand? CROSS IS CURSE.
I understand these prophetic verses ok. As a let's just say, a lifelong "student" of the prophetic, Thanks to our Lord Jesus.. there is no, ok.. no 7 YEAR trib. I am fully aware of the time of trouble, as well as the many verses that apply to this. I am fully aware of the "tribulation".. the thing I am trying to get across is simply this. The 7 year trib is NOT in the bible. The antichrist making a treaty with Israel is NOT in the bible. Ok, these are false teachings, Hal Lindsey, Jack van Impe, Lahaye... blah blah, should I go on?.. This is a narrative that is being perpetuated by people who are only repeating what they have HEARD. Because, my friend it is not in the bible. You didn't learn the 7 year trib from the bible did you?.. Of course not, none of you did, it's a deception.. do you understand yet?.. I will be more than happy to correspond on here with you or anyone else if you like, in a civil, friendly ,albeit "challenging" manner. These people get on here and throw out a long winded dissertation about things they don't even know. Hey, one of my favorite lines of scripture..Rev.19:10....worship God, for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. May our Lord be praised, love and peace to the bretheren.
GiGi I appreciate your input on this post even though the post said nothing about the Spirit of God. The words (Holy Ghost) is not mentioned in the Old Testament. You commented on this post then you say "I do not wish to engage in this conversation further" when I ask you a question that you didn't want to answer. You were the one who engaged in this conversation. The Truth matters GiGi, you are putting trust in bibles that are nothing but words of men and are not Inspired by God!
Please answer these questions GiGi.
Why would modern version bibles remove the words "through his blood"?
Heavenly Father, please answer John's and our plea. Please meet his need at this very moment. We trust in that Your love and mercy. Thank You Father God. In the Mighty Name of Jesus Christ. God bless you John.
The belief that punishment is correction (healing) is clearly insane. Healing and punishment are from opposing sources; one being love, the other fear. Typically, fear is a device used to control, obliterating our free will in which we were lovingly created. To utilize fear for correction is to lack faith in God Who is Love. The opposite of love is fear, yet what is ALL encompassing cannot have an opposite. God is not the author of fear; we are. We have chosen to create unlike Him, which is a miscreation, and have therefore made fear for ourselves. Our belief in fear cannot be resolved through the mastery of continued fear. The true resolution rests entirely on mastery through Love.
Free will is not free will when terror is used to to coerce. God is not a terrorist. But He is eternally patient. 2 Peter 3:9. God is NOT willing that any should perish. Who, except in arrogance can oppose and rise against the will and omnipotence of God. This is ONLY possible in a sleeping state involving dreams accompanied by nightmares.
Wake up oh sleepers, rise from the dead (sleep) and Christ will shine on you.
Respectfully, was it necessary to make your most current post to Jema? I'm not defending her, but I question if this is the ATTITUDE the Holy Spirit directed you to have?
The ego always speaks first. The voice of the Holy Spirit is always quiet, because it speaks of peace. Peace is stronger than war because it heals. None of us gain from strife. Until we silence the ego's voice, we cannot hear the Voice for God; only our own. Be still and know God is Love; then speak.
I'm not singling you out, as I often fail to practice what I preach, due to the ego. I value you and all as a brother or sister in Christ. I consider you and Jema my perfect equal. We who are not at war within our mind must look for brothers and recognize all whom we see as brothers/sisters, because only equals are at peace. Where could our peace arise BUT from forgiveness? The Christ in us looks only on the truth and sees no condemnation that could need forgiveness. He is at peace BECAUSE He sees no sin.
Heavenly Father, please answer our plea. That Mssue's oldest son realize that those evil spirits are ruining his life. Father God, also please bless her youngest son with a good paying job. Please give them a hunger for You. In the Mighty Name of Jesus Christ. God bless you Mssue.
It seems scriptural to me that remarriage when a spouse is alive causes the other person to commit adultery as well as the person instigating it. The "escape" clause fits in with Joseph and an espousal; hence the word fornication is used; whereas adultery is used in the next sentence. Corinthians and ROmans explains a woman remarrying when her husband is alive is an adulterer but not when he has died. It seems iron clad to me.
In any case; someone should tell a person to get out of such a marriage God simply doesn't recognize it as a covenant. I had a situation where I could have married someone but God made it clear that I couldn't do it. Others have left such marriages as well. That's how I see it; again I can't say it dogmatically as pastors themselves won't teach it. It is more than cooincidence that I found 2 churches that preached against divorce and remarriage (and I couldn't find any in this state online). They actually haven't preached it yet but the Pastor in my church now at least believes that for Christians. As for nonchristians we have JOhn the Baptist against the marriage of a brother's wife which got him killed; and Abraham and his wife twice who God warned others trying to take her as a "sister" that it was wrong (also Isaac attempted this with Rebekah). Also notice multi marriages but NO divorces for any saints or even sinners in the Bible even in cases like Esther with Vashti who the king ignored; or the wife of Job who told him to curse God and die; she apparently produced more kids later. I don't see abandonment as justification; again seperate or be reconciled.
Sorry if I sound too dogmatic can't see it any other way. I told a friend who is a new pastor that advised someone that did this that he should have told her to leave the guy but he just reassured her. He asked my opinion; don't think he will do that again.
I have much more I could say but unless I can write you privately I suppose this will be all for this forum.
Dear Heavenly Father, once again we lift up the needs of John Ray. He is in need of housing. Please cause someone to be generous to him and offer a place to stay for John Ray, either for a night or for long term. May you move someone to commit to help John Ray for he so needs help. Father, we know that You can do all things well, so we trust that You will meet John Ray's needs each day.
We ask this of You Father, in the name of Jesus, your Holy Son. Amen.
I understand that this is a discussion forum and it is good to lead off threads with topics that can lend well to discussion.
But also, sometimes the Spirit gives us discernment to lead a thread with a topic that He knows will not get much discussion. But the purpose is to just bring out topic or viewpoint that He wants said whether others respond or not, either affirming the view or disagreeing with it.
I do not often feel led to start off a thread, so I don't. I don't always feel led to respond to a post, so I don't. But oftentimes I do feel the Holy Spirit prompting me to respond, and I do. I try not to be in the discussion for myself, but for what the Holy Spirit desires. My viewpoint isn't what is important; obedience to the Spirit is. So, I try to do this His way.
I like to read what others post and think on what they write. Some I agree with wholeheartedy, others I disagree with wholeheartedly. Some I am undecided on and others are not pressing issues for me. Others are very concerning for me, such as when I read things that blaspheme God and His character, misrepresent who He is as revealed in Scripture, and also those things that are outright heresy. These bother me deeply and I must prayerfully respond to what has been stated while continuing to pray and care for the person who stated something that is very wrong and dangerous to other believers.
All in all, I have learned a great deal, have needed to study Scripture more closely on some topics to discover what is really being taught in Scriptures, and am encouraged that so many people truly have a passion for knowing God, His truth, and His will.
Just wondering how speaking your view on divorce and remarriage would get you booted off this forum? Would it be from others reporting to admin your post? I am not sure how this forum works regarding that. When I read so many posts that promote obvious heretical doctrines concerning God and His nature, Jesus and His nature and work, and deification of man and these do not get taken down, how would someone who disapproves of remarriage after divorce for believers be worthy of censure?
I guess I would hope that people on here would not be so quick to want to silence viewpoints on here or other forums. We, as believers, need to be responsible in learning the major tenets of the Christian faith and stand firm on those, being willing to address heretical doctrines. But when it comes to topics that are not core Christian beliefs, we should be gracious and speak our minds on what we believe even when it is not the same view as another poster and not be slandered, have our maturity in Christ or trueness of our conversion be questioned. Everyone has topics that they are quite sensitive on and we should recognize these topics for ourselves so that we will resolve to approach a differing view with kindness and calmness.
The topic of OSAS is not a cardinal doctrine in my view as there are many differing views that can have biblical support for these views. They are not false teachings but what is termed heterodoxy. While I do think that the doctrine of the Second Coming of Christ is a cardinal doctrine, meaning it is clearly taught in Scripture. But the teaching on the Rapture is not a cardinal doctrine. It has not been taught consistently throughout the centuries and is not explicitly taught in Scriptures. So disagreeing on this topic is one that can be permitted as long was we do not beat each other up over it. It tends to be a topic that gets people hot under the collar, but it isn't such for me.
I do share your view on divorce and remarriage pretty much. I think there are exceptions, especially between people when one spouse abandons the marriage for someone else. It seems Jesus gives this exception. But it is not necessarily a blanket endorsement for people to rush into another relationship when this happens. God will lead such people in the way they should go.
In most churches I am aware of pastors approve of divorce and remarriage for any reason and gladly performs such remarriages. some pastors and members say that as long as one repents of the first sexual encounter as adultery then all relations after that are o.k. and not ongoing adultery. I guess they do not know how preposterous this sounds. If one murders another and repents, then, according to their reasoning, this person can habitually kill other people after that and it is not sinful or murder. Or, if one has one abortion, and then repents, then they can continue to have abortions whenever they wish and it is not sinful or killing another person. I could go on and on giving absurd examples of this reasoning. But people will say that remarriage is different than other sins. I ask "How" and they usually cannot give me an answer.
With all of this said, I think that people who find themselves in a marriage that is failing are in such a hurtful and vulnerable place. And when the divorce does happen, then it is very difficult for some to face the rest of their lives as a single person. But I believe God will give the grace to any who wish to live obediently to what the Lord has commanded on this subject. But it may be a difficult road to travel.
My big question would be: "What do we do about those who have remarried against the Lord's command?"
I'm sure you are aware of my view on the Pretrib Rapture; and dispensationalism and OSAS. No need to elaborate since you have read many of my posts. I don't really care-I have had friends in a church I attended in Pittsburgh that are amillenialists; but loved the Lord and were more interested in His coming than those who call themselves PreTribbers in the other churches I have attended. Others I knew were in the Reformed church and Post Mils.
You probably know that I espouse covenant as well as dispensational viewpoints; I see free will as not contradicting predestination as God works through things just like; for example he did with Judas to accomplish His purposes. And of course a certain number will be saved and damned in the end; which God foreknew even if it wasn't what they call "double predestination" for someone to be lost.
What I am really interested in is whatever discernment the Lord has given me into the spiritual dimension. It leads me to say things that are not readily understood and I have never attempted to grow in that area largely because it isn't the most popular gift to have. Also of course we all want to be ready whenever we get to the time we are to be absent from the body or Christ comes for His church.
Again your comments on God's attributes and such..I am finishing my Zechariah study then will try to delve into your suggestions. It seems there are less questions of late; at least of significance-not sure if it is a trend. Finding it header; therefore to delve into topics people are interested in. I'm trying to include things I learn from news; my church and personal stories. I have a particular calling in terms of speaking out against divorce and remarriage from personal experience when a spouse is still alive. Since being dogmatic could take me off this forum; maybe you could pray where I can find a venue for it.
Guess I won't say anymore here God has made this clear to me though as a calling.
Hello again, Richard. I would like you to respond more to your comment about being surprised by some of my conclusions. I would appreciate some specifics so I can consider these before the Lord. I value your insight.
We are all individuals and susceptible to sin's temptations in our own ways. No one is exempt whether man or women. Christian women may be susceptible in ways that unbelieving women are not. And Christian men may be susceptible in ways that unbelieving men are not. And visa-versa. Christian men may be susceptible in ways that Christian women are not. And visa-versa. I agree that we should not make sweeping generalizations and judgments about people we do not know well and personally.
I appreciate your commitment to having us treat one another with kindness and good intentions on here. I, too, share that commitment. Thanks again and be blessed.
I have been reading this thread. I do agree that women are impressionable. But men, too, are impressionable. We both are equally corrupted by the sinful nature. So I see that it does not serve a BIG purpose to single out women as susceptible to sin when Adam freely ate, being just as susceptible to sin. He was led into sin by Eve and Eve was led into sin by Satan. Since both gave into sin's temptations, does it matter who led them into sin? I think it could have easily been the other way around with Adam being deceived by Satan, eating first and then leading Eve into eating.
There have been many honorable women in the Bible. Hannah, Deborah, Ruth, Anna, Elizabeth, Mary, Mary Magdella, Salome, Martha, Lydia, Dorcus, Demaris, Phoebe are so named. Peter's mother opened her house to believers.
We should honor women and men who served the Lord well either in Scripture or in history, in our families and in our fellowships. The same should be for men who do the same.
in Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek, slave or free, male or female, but all are one in Christ Gal. 3:28.Every believer shouid submit to God and His doctrines taught in Scriptures, men and women alike.
I realize that you are emphasizing the Scriptural reason for women to submit to their husbands and not be in positions of pastors and teachers over men. You have made this point very clear so I do not think there is much reason to continue emphasizing it here unless you are looking for an argument.
I must say though that you are wrong to judge Jema's commitment to the Lord or level of spiritual maturity based on this conversation. You do not know her heart, only God does. And since, we are to speak to one another what we truly know is truth, then we should refrain from evaluate others relationship with the Lord unless someone is clearly advocating heresy, which she is not.
Jim Miller, I have enjoyed reading your posts and I encourage you to continue to post your ideas on topics here.
We also see Lebanon and the wicked in Israel described; likely part of the 2/3 perishing in chapter 13. (verses 1-4). The forest could symbolically represent people; also of course there will be literal burnings of one third of the trees in the Trumpet judgments. Verses 5 and 6 of course could be speaking of the Diaspora and mass starvation during the Roman invasion and massacre of AD 70. The king mentioned in verse 6 could be the final Antichrist. Verses 9-10 show destruction coming to the land; and Verse 11 shows how the poor understand about the covenant being broken. This would imply the new covenant under Christ perhaps with shades of Isaiah 61:1 with the Good News to the poor. Symbolic terms are used here for the old covenant (Beauty and bands). Of course we also see the prophetic 30 pieces of silver which is sarcastically mentioned as what was considered Christ's worth. The field of a potter was determined for "blood money" once Judas repented of what he did (which was to avoid consequences not to seek forgiveness from God Himself), He hung himself; and later his bowels fell out. (verse 12-13; Acts 1:18). We must keep in mind that later verses describe God dealing with Israel then judging the nations that attacked them at the end of the Book of Zechariah.
Clearly the final Antichrist is mentioned here as well as the injury to his right arm and eye. (verses 15-17). This is the "worthless shepherd" and reminds us of verses in John 5:43 of another coming in his own name who they will worship.
If I understand your question well you are asking why there is so much violence in the Bible including God's actions. Firstly for what people do God can not be held accountable for. But often people see a violent God, especially in the Old Testament, forgetting that God is a Judge who judges people and nations righteously. Sodom and Gommorah and surrounding villages were destroyed by God. People may see that as an action of violence by God. But how could God judge and punish those people? He didn't create mankind for people to go down the deepest sins ever existed. When the state/people is punishing criminals why is it surprising that God acts similarly? People want a righteous and mercyful God but them themselves are in no mood to be righteous and mercyful. They wish a God who loves them but they don't wish to love others. They wish a God who takes care of all people in our planet but them themselves don't care at all if people die of starvation in other places of the world. They actually wish a God who loves and takes care of all their needs while them themselves go down the deepest deapths of sin and devour all the others for their own benefit.
It is true that we don't have answers to every question but we can rely on that we believe in a rightous God who is determined to reward but also to punish. In the present time humanity enjoys the mercy and the grace of God who calls every single human to accept the gift of eternal salvation, it is free, we just have to accept it, so lets take advantage of that and go get the free gift of salvation that He offers before the door is closed. GBU
Here God is addressing man, "And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat." In the next verse it is to the beasts, 'every green herb for meat' which is to understood for what it is. God as the creator made everything beautiful in his time. (Ec.3:11). So he is not laying do's and dont's but perfect law of liberty in Christ is keep your conscience find its equipoise in him. It is immaterial if one chooses to be a vegan or not. "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ."( Col. 2:16). Let your moderation be known unto all men.
Raptured before Tribulation are in Rev 5:9-10 in Heaven before Chapter 6,and so on.
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Thank you so much for responding to my question. When you ask: "When the state/people are punishing criminals, why is it surprising that God acts similarly?" My answer is that God is higher than us. His ways are not our ways. You also stated: "They wish a God who loves them, but they don't wish to love others." My response to that is that we cannot compare God to us. We can't judge what God does by what we do. We are trying to be like God. God is not trying to be like us! I am just not comfortable believing that God resorts to violence. I do, however, resonate with the part of your response that says: "It is true that we don't have answers to every question, but we can rely on that we believe in a righteous God who is determined to reward" Thank you, again for responding to my question.
When I read the statement: "The (Holy Ghost) first shows up in the Bible in the New Testament," my response (if I would have chosen to give one) would have been similar to GiGi's response.
True, Jimbob uses the term Holy Ghost, not Holy Spirit or Spirit of God, but are they not all the same Spirit?
So, if they are the same Spirit (which I believe they are), even though the term Holy Ghost is not mentioned in the Old Testament, the Holy Ghost/Holy Spirit/Spirit of God/Gods Spirit, whichever phrase you wish to use, can all be found working throughout the OT, regardless of which term is used.
If someone chooses to say Holy Ghost, and the other person chooses to say Holy Spirit or Spirit of God, it's all the same Spirit, and that Spirit (Holy Spirit/Holy Ghost) is found in the OT.
I do not see any mistreatment by GiGi here, and if Jimbob feels he is being mistreated, I think he would say so. He's been upfront with me in some of our conversations in the past so I think he would speak for himself if he felt that he was being mistreated. Just my thoughts!
Finally, I did consider responding before GiGi did, but there is a reason why I chose not to. I had a suspicion where this was headed right from the very beginning. It seems as though I chose wisely.
Thank you for this information. I do agree that the nail scars were visible in His hands. As far as being nailed in each foot, scripture does not give us that. Can you please share your source of that information?
Also, I am trying to figure out how the entire second half of your post has anything to do with the question that was asked. Can you help me out there also?
Thanks again for sharing!
45 ...The first man Adam was made a living soul;the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual,but that which is natural;and afterward that which is spiritual.
Well, since the beginning the Word-i.e. GOD-had planned to make man in His image,but how once He is Spirit?GOD sent JESUS about 4000 years after Adam,the first earthly man.And JESUS said:My Father works hitherto,and I work- John 5:17.Notice that when JESUS said this, still very recently He was in the bosom of the Word- John 1:18-,but now He already was in person working together with the Word, i.e.GOD tghe Father, and it at the age 30 or so,then He revealed that His Father was still working, although it was the beginning of the fifth Day. But Jesus knew what He was talking about, so He said: I and my Father are One.
The Word-i.e. GOD-is Spirit. How could man see an image of the Spirit? What is its image of the Spirit? It would be impossible to describe, unless it be created materially, physically, its own image. This explains why Israel always was tempted by the Devil to create an image of GOD for to worship it, and they made even a golden calf.
According to the Word, first He needed to create an image from He Himself and that's what God did, and thus JESUS was born in the turn of the fourth to the fifth Day or in the turn of fourth to the fifth millennium. GOD sent JESUS, for"He loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. GOD sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world;but that the world through Him might be saved.He that believeth on Him is not condemned:but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the NAME of the only begotten Son of GOD, JESUS.And this is the condemnation,that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil"- John 3:v.16 to 19.
JESUS was nailed exactly in the center of His hands on the lines that form the figure of an M. And was also nailed in each foot , nailed close to the heel, in the calcaneus region.
Luke 24:36-43
36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and SUPPOSED that they HAD SEEN A SPIRIT.
38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for A SPIRIT HATH NOT FLESH AND BONES as ye see me have.
40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them His HANDS and his FEET.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.
In fact GOD allowed His Son JESUS to be taken to the slaughter like a sheep,but the way He would be killed was not chosen by GOD the Father,but by the Devil,that is the old Serpent,and Satan;and the object that was chosen by the Devil was the satanic CROSS for killing JESUS,for torturing Him,and for humiliation,and mockery, and for the most cruel suffering,until death.JESUS already knew the satanic plan of the Devil- Matthew 26:2-Ye know that after two days is the feast of the passover,and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified.
To take up the cross is to suffer for the love of JESUS,to suffer for the preaching of His Gospel,suffering to testify of His Word in the Devil's world,to suffer for the preaching of His teachings within the Devils's world,to suffer testifying of the redeeming work of JESUS for the corrupt world of Devil,whose work cost his own life by dying on the man-made cross, Devil's cross.Devil's cross that many have on their avatar,the satanic cross that devilish Catholicism kisses and adores, understand? CROSS IS CURSE.
Matthew 3:22...Except those days of the great tribulation be SHORTENED, no flesh could BE SAVED.
You say your pretrib
The above scripture says you CANNOT be saved till after the great tribulation.
The word says WE ARE SAVED by the RESURRECTION of Christ.
The great tribulation had to happen before Christ was RESURRECTED.
The great tribulation was from the time Christ entered the garden till he DIED on the cross.
The doctrines of men has polluted the words of God.
God Bless YOU!
Please answer these questions GiGi.
Why would modern version bibles remove the words "through his blood"?
Do you think they are Inspired by God?
The belief that punishment is correction (healing) is clearly insane. Healing and punishment are from opposing sources; one being love, the other fear. Typically, fear is a device used to control, obliterating our free will in which we were lovingly created. To utilize fear for correction is to lack faith in God Who is Love. The opposite of love is fear, yet what is ALL encompassing cannot have an opposite. God is not the author of fear; we are. We have chosen to create unlike Him, which is a miscreation, and have therefore made fear for ourselves. Our belief in fear cannot be resolved through the mastery of continued fear. The true resolution rests entirely on mastery through Love.
Free will is not free will when terror is used to to coerce. God is not a terrorist. But He is eternally patient. 2 Peter 3:9. God is NOT willing that any should perish. Who, except in arrogance can oppose and rise against the will and omnipotence of God. This is ONLY possible in a sleeping state involving dreams accompanied by nightmares.
Wake up oh sleepers, rise from the dead (sleep) and Christ will shine on you.
Peace to all
Respectfully, was it necessary to make your most current post to Jema? I'm not defending her, but I question if this is the ATTITUDE the Holy Spirit directed you to have?
The ego always speaks first. The voice of the Holy Spirit is always quiet, because it speaks of peace. Peace is stronger than war because it heals. None of us gain from strife. Until we silence the ego's voice, we cannot hear the Voice for God; only our own. Be still and know God is Love; then speak.
I'm not singling you out, as I often fail to practice what I preach, due to the ego. I value you and all as a brother or sister in Christ. I consider you and Jema my perfect equal. We who are not at war within our mind must look for brothers and recognize all whom we see as brothers/sisters, because only equals are at peace. Where could our peace arise BUT from forgiveness? The Christ in us looks only on the truth and sees no condemnation that could need forgiveness. He is at peace BECAUSE He sees no sin.
Peace to all.
In any case; someone should tell a person to get out of such a marriage God simply doesn't recognize it as a covenant. I had a situation where I could have married someone but God made it clear that I couldn't do it. Others have left such marriages as well. That's how I see it; again I can't say it dogmatically as pastors themselves won't teach it. It is more than cooincidence that I found 2 churches that preached against divorce and remarriage (and I couldn't find any in this state online). They actually haven't preached it yet but the Pastor in my church now at least believes that for Christians. As for nonchristians we have JOhn the Baptist against the marriage of a brother's wife which got him killed; and Abraham and his wife twice who God warned others trying to take her as a "sister" that it was wrong (also Isaac attempted this with Rebekah). Also notice multi marriages but NO divorces for any saints or even sinners in the Bible even in cases like Esther with Vashti who the king ignored; or the wife of Job who told him to curse God and die; she apparently produced more kids later. I don't see abandonment as justification; again seperate or be reconciled.
Sorry if I sound too dogmatic can't see it any other way. I told a friend who is a new pastor that advised someone that did this that he should have told her to leave the guy but he just reassured her. He asked my opinion; don't think he will do that again.
I have much more I could say but unless I can write you privately I suppose this will be all for this forum.
Dear Heavenly Father, once again we lift up the needs of John Ray. He is in need of housing. Please cause someone to be generous to him and offer a place to stay for John Ray, either for a night or for long term. May you move someone to commit to help John Ray for he so needs help. Father, we know that You can do all things well, so we trust that You will meet John Ray's needs each day.
We ask this of You Father, in the name of Jesus, your Holy Son. Amen.
I hope you don't mind me commenting further.
I understand that this is a discussion forum and it is good to lead off threads with topics that can lend well to discussion.
But also, sometimes the Spirit gives us discernment to lead a thread with a topic that He knows will not get much discussion. But the purpose is to just bring out topic or viewpoint that He wants said whether others respond or not, either affirming the view or disagreeing with it.
I do not often feel led to start off a thread, so I don't. I don't always feel led to respond to a post, so I don't. But oftentimes I do feel the Holy Spirit prompting me to respond, and I do. I try not to be in the discussion for myself, but for what the Holy Spirit desires. My viewpoint isn't what is important; obedience to the Spirit is. So, I try to do this His way.
I like to read what others post and think on what they write. Some I agree with wholeheartedy, others I disagree with wholeheartedly. Some I am undecided on and others are not pressing issues for me. Others are very concerning for me, such as when I read things that blaspheme God and His character, misrepresent who He is as revealed in Scripture, and also those things that are outright heresy. These bother me deeply and I must prayerfully respond to what has been stated while continuing to pray and care for the person who stated something that is very wrong and dangerous to other believers.
All in all, I have learned a great deal, have needed to study Scripture more closely on some topics to discover what is really being taught in Scriptures, and am encouraged that so many people truly have a passion for knowing God, His truth, and His will.
Just wondering how speaking your view on divorce and remarriage would get you booted off this forum? Would it be from others reporting to admin your post? I am not sure how this forum works regarding that. When I read so many posts that promote obvious heretical doctrines concerning God and His nature, Jesus and His nature and work, and deification of man and these do not get taken down, how would someone who disapproves of remarriage after divorce for believers be worthy of censure?
I guess I would hope that people on here would not be so quick to want to silence viewpoints on here or other forums. We, as believers, need to be responsible in learning the major tenets of the Christian faith and stand firm on those, being willing to address heretical doctrines. But when it comes to topics that are not core Christian beliefs, we should be gracious and speak our minds on what we believe even when it is not the same view as another poster and not be slandered, have our maturity in Christ or trueness of our conversion be questioned. Everyone has topics that they are quite sensitive on and we should recognize these topics for ourselves so that we will resolve to approach a differing view with kindness and calmness.
The topic of OSAS is not a cardinal doctrine in my view as there are many differing views that can have biblical support for these views. They are not false teachings but what is termed heterodoxy. While I do think that the doctrine of the Second Coming of Christ is a cardinal doctrine, meaning it is clearly taught in Scripture. But the teaching on the Rapture is not a cardinal doctrine. It has not been taught consistently throughout the centuries and is not explicitly taught in Scriptures. So disagreeing on this topic is one that can be permitted as long was we do not beat each other up over it. It tends to be a topic that gets people hot under the collar, but it isn't such for me.
Let's do everything in love.
Thanks for the response. Appreciated.
I do share your view on divorce and remarriage pretty much. I think there are exceptions, especially between people when one spouse abandons the marriage for someone else. It seems Jesus gives this exception. But it is not necessarily a blanket endorsement for people to rush into another relationship when this happens. God will lead such people in the way they should go.
In most churches I am aware of pastors approve of divorce and remarriage for any reason and gladly performs such remarriages. some pastors and members say that as long as one repents of the first sexual encounter as adultery then all relations after that are o.k. and not ongoing adultery. I guess they do not know how preposterous this sounds. If one murders another and repents, then, according to their reasoning, this person can habitually kill other people after that and it is not sinful or murder. Or, if one has one abortion, and then repents, then they can continue to have abortions whenever they wish and it is not sinful or killing another person. I could go on and on giving absurd examples of this reasoning. But people will say that remarriage is different than other sins. I ask "How" and they usually cannot give me an answer.
With all of this said, I think that people who find themselves in a marriage that is failing are in such a hurtful and vulnerable place. And when the divorce does happen, then it is very difficult for some to face the rest of their lives as a single person. But I believe God will give the grace to any who wish to live obediently to what the Lord has commanded on this subject. But it may be a difficult road to travel.
My big question would be: "What do we do about those who have remarried against the Lord's command?"
You probably know that I espouse covenant as well as dispensational viewpoints; I see free will as not contradicting predestination as God works through things just like; for example he did with Judas to accomplish His purposes. And of course a certain number will be saved and damned in the end; which God foreknew even if it wasn't what they call "double predestination" for someone to be lost.
What I am really interested in is whatever discernment the Lord has given me into the spiritual dimension. It leads me to say things that are not readily understood and I have never attempted to grow in that area largely because it isn't the most popular gift to have. Also of course we all want to be ready whenever we get to the time we are to be absent from the body or Christ comes for His church.
Again your comments on God's attributes and such..I am finishing my Zechariah study then will try to delve into your suggestions. It seems there are less questions of late; at least of significance-not sure if it is a trend. Finding it header; therefore to delve into topics people are interested in. I'm trying to include things I learn from news; my church and personal stories. I have a particular calling in terms of speaking out against divorce and remarriage from personal experience when a spouse is still alive. Since being dogmatic could take me off this forum; maybe you could pray where I can find a venue for it.
Guess I won't say anymore here God has made this clear to me though as a calling.
Agape Rich P
]
We have had this discussion several times already. In my post I just wanted to point out that the Spirit of God is mentioned in many places in the OT.
Otherwise, I do not wish to engage with you in this conversation further.
We are all individuals and susceptible to sin's temptations in our own ways. No one is exempt whether man or women. Christian women may be susceptible in ways that unbelieving women are not. And Christian men may be susceptible in ways that unbelieving men are not. And visa-versa. Christian men may be susceptible in ways that Christian women are not. And visa-versa. I agree that we should not make sweeping generalizations and judgments about people we do not know well and personally.
I appreciate your commitment to having us treat one another with kindness and good intentions on here. I, too, share that commitment. Thanks again and be blessed.
I have been reading this thread. I do agree that women are impressionable. But men, too, are impressionable. We both are equally corrupted by the sinful nature. So I see that it does not serve a BIG purpose to single out women as susceptible to sin when Adam freely ate, being just as susceptible to sin. He was led into sin by Eve and Eve was led into sin by Satan. Since both gave into sin's temptations, does it matter who led them into sin? I think it could have easily been the other way around with Adam being deceived by Satan, eating first and then leading Eve into eating.
There have been many honorable women in the Bible. Hannah, Deborah, Ruth, Anna, Elizabeth, Mary, Mary Magdella, Salome, Martha, Lydia, Dorcus, Demaris, Phoebe are so named. Peter's mother opened her house to believers.
We should honor women and men who served the Lord well either in Scripture or in history, in our families and in our fellowships. The same should be for men who do the same.
in Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek, slave or free, male or female, but all are one in Christ Gal. 3:28.Every believer shouid submit to God and His doctrines taught in Scriptures, men and women alike.
I realize that you are emphasizing the Scriptural reason for women to submit to their husbands and not be in positions of pastors and teachers over men. You have made this point very clear so I do not think there is much reason to continue emphasizing it here unless you are looking for an argument.
I must say though that you are wrong to judge Jema's commitment to the Lord or level of spiritual maturity based on this conversation. You do not know her heart, only God does. And since, we are to speak to one another what we truly know is truth, then we should refrain from evaluate others relationship with the Lord unless someone is clearly advocating heresy, which she is not.
Jim Miller, I have enjoyed reading your posts and I encourage you to continue to post your ideas on topics here.
We also see Lebanon and the wicked in Israel described; likely part of the 2/3 perishing in chapter 13. (verses 1-4). The forest could symbolically represent people; also of course there will be literal burnings of one third of the trees in the Trumpet judgments. Verses 5 and 6 of course could be speaking of the Diaspora and mass starvation during the Roman invasion and massacre of AD 70. The king mentioned in verse 6 could be the final Antichrist. Verses 9-10 show destruction coming to the land; and Verse 11 shows how the poor understand about the covenant being broken. This would imply the new covenant under Christ perhaps with shades of Isaiah 61:1 with the Good News to the poor. Symbolic terms are used here for the old covenant (Beauty and bands). Of course we also see the prophetic 30 pieces of silver which is sarcastically mentioned as what was considered Christ's worth. The field of a potter was determined for "blood money" once Judas repented of what he did (which was to avoid consequences not to seek forgiveness from God Himself), He hung himself; and later his bowels fell out. (verse 12-13; Acts 1:18). We must keep in mind that later verses describe God dealing with Israel then judging the nations that attacked them at the end of the Book of Zechariah.
Clearly the final Antichrist is mentioned here as well as the injury to his right arm and eye. (verses 15-17). This is the "worthless shepherd" and reminds us of verses in John 5:43 of another coming in his own name who they will worship.
If I understand your question well you are asking why there is so much violence in the Bible including God's actions. Firstly for what people do God can not be held accountable for. But often people see a violent God, especially in the Old Testament, forgetting that God is a Judge who judges people and nations righteously. Sodom and Gommorah and surrounding villages were destroyed by God. People may see that as an action of violence by God. But how could God judge and punish those people? He didn't create mankind for people to go down the deepest sins ever existed. When the state/people is punishing criminals why is it surprising that God acts similarly? People want a righteous and mercyful God but them themselves are in no mood to be righteous and mercyful. They wish a God who loves them but they don't wish to love others. They wish a God who takes care of all people in our planet but them themselves don't care at all if people die of starvation in other places of the world. They actually wish a God who loves and takes care of all their needs while them themselves go down the deepest deapths of sin and devour all the others for their own benefit.
It is true that we don't have answers to every question but we can rely on that we believe in a rightous God who is determined to reward but also to punish. In the present time humanity enjoys the mercy and the grace of God who calls every single human to accept the gift of eternal salvation, it is free, we just have to accept it, so lets take advantage of that and go get the free gift of salvation that He offers before the door is closed. GBU
Here God is addressing man, "And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat." In the next verse it is to the beasts, 'every green herb for meat' which is to understood for what it is. God as the creator made everything beautiful in his time. (Ec.3:11). So he is not laying do's and dont's but perfect law of liberty in Christ is keep your conscience find its equipoise in him. It is immaterial if one chooses to be a vegan or not. "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ."( Col. 2:16). Let your moderation be known unto all men.