I will just ask one question and you can answer it to yourself. Can you say and confess from the day you accepted Jesus as your Savior and was baptized you have not committed any sin? Is that true? If you cannot answer yes, it is true I have not committed any sin since I accepted Jesus as my Savior and was baptized, your debate is fruitless.
I will just ask one question and you can answer it to yourself. Can you say and confess from the day you accepted Jesus as your Savior and was baptized you have not committed any sin? Is that true? If you cannot answer yes, it is true I have not committed any sin since I accepted Jesus as your Savior and was baptized, your debate is fruitless.
You said we grow until we come to the full measure of Christ, and we will be glorified when we get our glorified bodies. "Which I believe also" ( Ephesians 4:12-13.
So at what point do we lose salvation?
Romans 8:13, "For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye (THROUGH THE SPIRIT) DO MORTIFY THE DEEDS OF THE BODY, ye shall live.
We are given Christ spirit for our infirmities, and that is areas we are weak in the flesh.
What you described as one able to keep himself justified is not Salvation at all.
Once you are saved God keeps on saying you. It's not a onetime transaction. Sanctification Is of the Lord, Justification is of the Lord. It's not in your hands to keep yourself saved.
Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
Part 5 I will attempt to give an example of Sanctification under the law and Gods acceptance of man's cleansing himself and a picture of the difference between the ministration of death and the ministration by the Spirit.
1 Timothy 4:1. Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils.
This verse is in contrast to what is said in the previous Chapter.
" 1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
1 Timothy 4:1 It can read, "But" the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1 Timothy 3:16 - 1 Timthy 4;1.
Putting them together reads like this.
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. "But" the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
This is saying some will depart from what was formally taught and
giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; It is not talking about losing salvation.
It reminds me of Luke 18:8. I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth? (This should be read shall he find THE faith on the earth?)
Again, we have Hebrews 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
(No believer has an evil heart of unbelief). The writer is saying examine yourself. Verse 10 he says, "They do always err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
You emphasized 1 John 1;7.
I say: IF we are saved, we ARE walking in the light! if we are not in the light we ARE in darkness!
If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 1 John 1:6-7. (This is confirmation of salvation, not earning it or trying not to lose it.)
I believe we will have to agree to disagree on the verses you addressed in part 4 being that I have already gave my interpretation on these verses.
However, I would like to address 1 Timothy 4:1. In Part 3.
1) You asked,if a man can choose, can he later as a Christian choose to forsake Christ thereby abandoning his salvation and losing the gift of eternal life? Or is it all predestined? If so, why would there be a judgment?
2) You said Isn't it to believe in him whom he sent?) That is true. To some that is easy, all they must do is believe, they have their ticket. Someone then asks them do they believe in God and what Jesus did, all they must do is say yes, I believe. Is it just to believe that is contradictory, is this a half-truth, like you will not surely die? Gen. 3:4-5. Ronald the scripture saysThat if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt BELIEVE IN THY HEART that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Believing in thy heart is a true profession. it would be like the example given in Matthew 7:21-23.
3) Ronald, you asked; If we say when someone walks away or falls back into sin they were never saved to begin with. If we do is that judging? Is there any way for us to know what is in the heart of another man or woman? and if we say they were never saved is that just to support a doctrine?
I would say no the scripture declares them unsaved. Matthew 7:23.
I would also ask you. if you say someone fell back into sin as you said they would lose their salvation. Isn't that judging and is that just to support a doctrine also?
4) Response to part 3.
You said, Concerning Pentecost, Peter was pleading that they accept Jesus as their Messiah that was promised, and they killed Him, not to repent from Judaism. (accepting Jesus Christ is turning from Judaism!) And act 15 they were opposing Judaism. Acts 15:5-11. ' You noticed verse 11? "But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.Peter is saying the Jews shall be saved even as the gentiles!
You took notice for a reason, all glory to God and His Holy Spirit. Christians have a bad addiction to sin! Just like any other addiction, if we don't acknowledge it and get help, we won't change, we will live in this condition until we die. If we remain a sinner, we will die as a sinner, and we will go to hell as promised in the scriptures.
In scripture below, Jesus promises the invalid that he previously healed that he should "sin no more" or something worse will happen to him!
John 5:14 "Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee."
If those who continue to tell themselves and others that we can't stop sinning, it's just like going up to that invalid that Jesus warned to "sin no more" now we would be telling him: hey we are all sinners, and none of us can ever really stop sinning. You would be stating the exact opposite of what Jesus/God just told the invalid not to do! Do you think God would approve of you telling the invalid that they can't stop sinning?
If we are saying we can't stop sinning, and telling others that they can't stop sinning, we should ask ourselves: Where is this belief/mindset that we can never stop sinning coming from? We know it isn't coming from God. 1John 3:8
I've learned the hard way it's best to not be in conflict with God or His Spirit. If he really loves us, if we sin - He can make us suffer in ways that can get our attention! If he doesn't see we are sincere about sin, a he can take our life, and soul, and put us in hell. I fear God, as we all should, and I offer this to you to help you. Better to say it's hard to stop sinning, but not impossible. God tells us all things are possible if you have faith as a mustard seed Matt 17:20 With God nothing is impossible for us!
Thank you for the information I understand Jesus knows my heart he wants you to have a heart compassion I know of a lot of scriptures throughout the Bible they're all pulling me this way that way I guess I try so hard I can't serve him good sorry about all the text thank you Jesus Christ will bless you for helping me out thank you again
Your opening statement is welcome & much appreciated,
I see that your knowledge of God is from the letter, this is contrary to the Scriptures
Its a knowledge without the Spirit & Life oF Christ, its fruit is a form of godliness without the power to be truly godly
Meaning; it does take away one sins.
Ronald;
how can one "be a slave of Jesus & continue in sin?"
quoting you;
"we have had 2000 years of leaven that we can see everywhere the whole lump is almost bloated."
This is evident token of what the letter produces &
would you consider yourselve a part of this bloatation in continuing to sin?
Rom 6:1,2,6,14,15,16,18,22
"These are about not to continue in sin, sinning without thought or repentance."
Where does it imply this? Are you saying your in premediation to sin and repent later? & if not how do you know you will get a chance to repent? Not to mention that godly sorrow of repentance is an adhorrance in oneself & a resignation of spirit in total reliance on the Grace of God to not commit it again
"accept Jesus and are baptized, "
which baptizmal are we speaking of water or fire? The fire refers to thoroughly purging the threshing floor of our hearts with
unquenchable fire, which burns up the sinful nature, the chaff, thus becoming dead unto sin
Ephesians 4:5 & becoming a partaker of the Divine Nature that does not sin having escape the corruption thru lust
" justified and made righteous no longer a servant to sin"
if you are no more a servant unto sin, then why are you still commting sin?
Ronald the knowledge that you have is not according to the Spirit of the Scriptures
this is not saying you don't have a sincere heart, but are deceived
Everyone haves their day of visitation from the Lord, when He set life & death before them, its a very solemn moment within ,
I pray that when your turn comes
you will choose life. you have a heart for God, just not the true knowledge.
Reread last thread, particularly the end. Waiting on the Lord.
-while disobeying HIS word then we became ineffective Christians who cannot even say boo to a demon.
Yes, Such People and ministries exist
-There are Men of God who are actually Led by the Spirit of God and are called according to the Gifts given to men by our Lord Jesus Christ, but instead of putting a show they fear God and walk with Him.
They that believe in Him, and they that are committed to His do Him will Revelation 12:11, KJV.
But what we are witnessing is.
-Men have departed from God and the church is a business and entertaining industries.
-Men don't pray earnestly before God and if they pray it's a shopping request rather than worship before God.
-No one is taking head according to the word of God and repentance has become optional this days where people have forgeten that God does not hear sinners ( John 9:31, KJV) and our sins separates us from our God (Isiah 59:2,KJV)
-Lets us pick our Bibles and wipe the dust off from them and lets us be given to God in prays and fasting seeking to fellowship with Him always while continuing in the word of GOD grounded in faith Amen.
-Remember faith without works is dead!
Lastly repent of your sin and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ
-Wherefore When He died at the cross and purge our sins By Himself and rose on the Third day, He gave gifts unto men to be apostles, prophets, evangelist pastors and some to be teachers. ( Ephesians 4:7, KJV) This is clearly seen across different churches and in many Christians who have repented of their sins at the cross and believed in the Lord Jesus Christ the son of the Living God.
- It is also important to note that God put his power in Moses' rode, but it was upon Moses to pick it and use it. but according to Gods will ( exodus 4:1-3, KJV)
And Remember Elijah a man like us tempted like we are but prayed earnestly and the rain ceased and yet Elijah was a man like us ( James 5:17, KJV)
-The writer of the Book James clearly point this out to all Christians (those who have repented at the cross and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ the Son of the Living God) they that take head according to the word of God ( Psalms 119:9, KJV)
-That if there is anyone sick, let him call the elders of the church to pray for him anointing him with oil in the name of The Lord and the prayer of FAITH will save the sick and if he has committed sin the Lord will forgive Him.
-Moreover, in James 5:16, KJV) God clearly points this to us that we are to confess our trespasses to one other and to pray for one other that we may be Healed.
-For if we confess our sins to each other, we will remain humble in the Lord and when we pray with earnestly before God without doubting ( 1 timothy 2:8, KJV) the Lord is faithful who will also do it
Remember prayer is not a shopping list but worshiping the Lord God with Your heart mind and soul.
The conclusion of the matter.
-The Lord still heals the blind, heals the sick and raises the dead according to the Scriptures.
And He does not change but we me and you we change and if we pray in mockery and be covetous in ministry.
-Prophesying for attention picking and choosing the portions of the Scriptures that we want to believe
There was a question posted few weeks, regarding The Gift of The Holy Spirit.
Part 1
-I believe Jesus Christ is the son of the Living God and He died on the Cross for my sins, and He was buried and rose on the third Day and He is sited at the right hand of the father, and He is our high priest according to the order of Melchizedek.
-Brethren bear this in mind that God is the same and He does not change.
As it is written Malachi 3:6, kjv
For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
-As God spoke by the prophets in time past in these days, these last hours ( John 1:18) He speaks to us by His beloved son in whom we have been qualified to be saints in the inheritance in the light by His blood at the cross By repentance. ( Colossians 1:12-14,KJV)
-And if you have repented at the cross and received salvation which is by grace and faith alone none of any of our works then we receive gifts according to His will which He gives for the edifying of the ministry (body of Christ For He is the Head of the Church Colossians 1:18, KJV.)
As it written in Ephesians 4:7-8, KJV
7.But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
-And in time past ( Hebrews 1:1, KJV) They the prophets healed the sick, raised the dead and provided provisions and all according to the will of God and not mans will.
-Therefore, we serve the same Living God who has been in the beginning and Does not Change and Was manifest unto us as a child, but He was there from the begging as a Son given unto us as a Son Mighty God, everlasting Father. (Isiah 6:9 KJV)
As it is written in 1 timothy 3:16, KJV.
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Verse 1 states "In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness." This corresponds with the healing waters from the Temple in Ezekiel 47 as well as Revelation 20 for the nations of the world.
Verses 2 through 5 discuss the end of false prophets; even the death of a family member who prophesies lies. Verse 6 seems to also be a prophesy of Christ as well as a warning of how when the Lord returns there is no more toleration from anyone closely associated with a false prophet.
Verse 7 is clearly a prophesy of Christ as cross referenced in Matthew 26:31 since Christ quoted it.
Verse 8 and 9 discuss a subject I've mentioned previously in the posts on Zechariah; on the third that make it through the Tribulation. It should be noted that God hears them. I have also noted for those who think this is cruel as to the interpretation; that mankind will be rarer than gold overall when the Day of Judgment comes. ( Isaiah 13:12). Truly; the cost of rejecting their Messiah and many centuries of rebellion has cost Israel dearly as to blessings they could have had. Nonetheless, they are once again established in their homeland and they will never completely be annihilated there despite the gathering of all nations against them in the last days.
1 Cor 10:24, "Let no man seek his own, but every man another's wealth." The word wealth is in italics, it is not written in the text. My Bible has the word "interest" instead. It could also be "profit".
1 Cor 10:33, "Even as I(Paul) please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.
Philippians 2:19-21, "19But I trust in the Lord Jesus to send Timotheus shortly unto you, that I also may be of good comfort, when I know your state. 20For I have no man likeminded, who will naturally care for your state. 21For all seek their own, not the things which are Jesus Christ's."
Lets pay attention to verse 21. Even at that time people were interested in their affairs, with some exceptions like Paul and Timothy. How difficult is for one to devote himself to the needs of others. But Jesus did exactly that.
2 concepts are indicated in these lyrics. First; praise isn't always accepted by God and second riches of this world often are treasured above the Lord. Both of these points are an issue when it comes to the Contemporary Christian music industry; in particular.
Lucifer according to Ezekiel 28 and Isaiah 14 was anointed as a Cherubim with musical giftings built into him. He chose glory for himself; therefore lost his place in heaven and consequently; can only use his talents for evil purposes today. It is hard to conceive that those who have written scripturally sound lyrics in the past could abandon the Lord; but mind boggling to see those who have continued to confess Christ but accept all the ideologies contrary to scripture. This is certainly reminiscent of the type of people you would expect in the last days Laodicean type church. The kind of God which is worshipped in this case is one sided toward love and acceptance and doesn't look at repentance seriously. God loved us enough to send His Son ( John 3:16) but when the Son had our sins placed on Him the Father had to look away. ( Matthew 27:46; Habakkuk 1:13).
There are exceptions; of course of artists whose lives truly reflect the proper doctrines; and show the proper behavior as a humble servant. This often at the very least means turning down more lucrative offers that cause compromise and starting your own music label. Many start in local churches then end up getting sucked into the greed of worldly desires for success and any new musician should have regular discipling and close association with a local church; preferably as a member. We should pray also for those who are gifted musically in secular circles that they will turn to Christ and witness to them when opportunities arise.
Well I looked that up and yes, there was that person Marcion in the early church who was teaching that there are 2 different Gods. An inferior God in the OT who was strict with people and a superior God in the NT who was mercyful to people. Markion claimed that YAHWEH was the God of the OT. He could not understand why God behaved in different ways in the Old from the New Testament. So he found the solution of 2 different Gods each of them acting in a different age. Still Markion didn't call devil the person that was called YAHWEH, just an inferior God. His teachings were condemned by the early church.
"30. For this cause (taking the Body and Blood of Jesus while unclean) many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
31. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
32. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world."
What does the above say?
It says that if we take the Holy Communion while we are not clean then God will allow(or cause) illnesses and even death to come to us. Why? We are judged by Him in order to make us repent and so we will not be condemned together with the sinful world. Everything that God does is because of His love to us. He even causes hard things to us to make us keep going and cross the finish line. That may sound a bit strange to people but actually we do the same thing to our kids. When they are not obedient and they do bad things, we often punish them to make obey and keep on the straight path.
"The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?"
1 Cor 11:23-29,
"23. For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: 24. And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.25. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. 26. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come. 27. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. 29For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body."
Points of attention:
1. Communion of the Body and Blood of Christ. IT IS(not a symbol of) the Blood and It IS (not a symbol of) the Body of Christ.
2.Verse 29, lets pay attention to that "descerning the Lord's body", so It is the symbol of it.
3. If those were symbols, then nothing would happen to the believers when taking them while having sins. Why would anything happen to them? No reason. BUT if they are really the Body and Blood of Jesus then Holy things are entering our body and if there are sins in us then we are in trouble. In the same way in the OT when the priests were entering the "Holy of the Hollies" which means the place of the full and immediate presence of God, and they were not clean, then they were in danger of falling down dead.
"There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."
The above verse seems to be in contradiction to itself. "But will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it"??? ". A way to escape" SO THAT "you will be able to bear it"?. If God provides a way to escape why do I have to bear it? Either I have to bear itemptation OR I am given a way out. It can't be both. So what's going on here.
Although all translations, not just the KJB, say the same thing, even grk Bibles are of similar interpretation, let's see the grk:
"...alla (But) poiesei ([HE] will do) syn to peirasmo (together with the temptation) kai ten ekbasin (this can be translated as "and the result/ outcome", etc ) tou dynasthai ymas ypenegkein(to make you able to bear). Lets sum it up, "But together with the temptation [He] will give the outcome(something that will have an outcome in your struggle) to make you able to bear." The verse implies that God will give you the tools/strength to bear temptation NOT a way out to free you, as it is seems.
Well, I may be wrong here but this is how I know it.
It sounds as if you have been walking a tough road for a while now . I know from experience that the best way to build up your physical stamina is to push yourself to go that bit further every day , but I do mean only a little bit further every day , pace yourself , give yourself plenty of time to rest between chores , you can do it I'm sure . Whatever else you do , make time and space to think about Your Heavenly Father and His Son Jesus Christ your Redeemer . Read your Bible , say your prayers , thank God for every good thing in your life and don't give up ! I thank God every day for sustaining me , physically mentally emotionally and spiritually , and I ask Him to please continue to do so . If there are things that you are doing that you know are hindering your progress , you must address them and ask God for the strength and determination to do what you know is good for you . As I already know , patience is required :) , not something that comes naturally to me I'm afraid , I've had to learn it because of my own physical limitations . Trust in God , thank Him every day and remember , your physical body is God given so respect the gift . If you spend a lot of time alone ,talk to God , all day every day , it's very good therapy . Keep going Bibleman72 , you have plenty to look forward to :) .
Hi John , I hope you are doing ok . Proverbs Ch 28 V 27 : He that govern unto the poor shall not lack : but he that hideth his eyes shall have many a curse , I'm guessing your wondering about he that hideth his eyes ? To me this means that a person who ignores the request of a poor person , just walks on by , ignores them as if they don't even exist , this person shall suffer for their cold-heartedness . I hope that answers your questions ok .
You did not address this directly with me, but I felt it. This is not to debate it with you. I know in my heart nothing I have posted comes from Satan. There is a difference between, we sin, and we serve sin, dead in or dead to.
Ephesians 2:1:4 When we are born, we are born dead in trespasses and sins, and we remain in that spiritually dead state until we believe in faith Jesus as our savior and are baptized for the remission of our sins, at that moment we who were dead in sin are made spiritually alive in Jesus, Ephesians 2:5.
We confess to now be dead to sin and the old way of living and walk in the newness of life found in following Jesus, Romans 6:1-4. We are dead to sin and alive to God and we have a new walk, Romans 6:2,11. Dead to sin means we are no longer a slave to sin, we are no longer serving sin, Romans 6:6. We no longer allow sin to reign in our body.
This doesn't mean that a Christian will ever reach a state of sinless perfection while on this earth. As long as we are in this mortal body, sins will on occasion be committed. However, the point we became dead to sin through Jesus we will never participate in a lifestyle of persistent, continual, habitual sin. We will never let sin reign over us again, we are no longer sin slaves.
Slip-ups and stumbles are likely, part of us having the Adamic nature, Jesus is faithful and just to forgive our sins if we confess them. If we go back to our evil ways slaves to sin letting sin reign over us instead of our Savior Jesus, no more forgiveness, we are again dead in sin, living in sin.
This is what my understanding is, given to me through prayer and the guidance of the Spirit of God. If we say or teach we can get to a point while in this mortal body, we will never sin again, is that not the same as you shall not surely die??? Only One has or ever will live in this flesh and did not sin. Repentance is not a one-time thing, it is how we live, our walk in the Spirit.
1.Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed
through the sea;
2. And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3. And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
4. And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 5. But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
Points of attention:
1."all our fathers were under the cloud" - means under God's presence.
2. "And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea" - represents getting baptized in water and in the Spirit
3. And did all eat the same spiritual meat and drink - represents getting fully tought the Word of God
4. The result? They were overthrown in the wilderness - end of the road for them
Why that result??
Verses 6-11:
6. NOW THESE THINGS WERE OUR EXAMPLES, TO THE INENT WE SHOULD NOT LUST AFTER EVIL THINGD, AS THEY ALSO
LUSTED.
7. Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
8. Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
9. Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
10. Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
11. NOW ALL THESE THINGS HAPPENED UNTO THEM FOR ENSAMPLES: AND THEY ARE WRITTEN FOR OUR ADMONITION, UPON
In his 2nd letter to Timothy which is Paul's last letter before his martyrdom, Paul says:
2 Timothy 4:6-7,
7. I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
8. Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, BUT UNTO ALL THEM ALSO that love his appearing.
Well, Paul finished his course/run, he fought the good fight and hence the prize of the crown of righteousness (salvation) awaits for him.
If he stopped running, if he stopped fighting, if he didn't keep the faith...???
Same question to Brother Dan.
I will just ask one question and you can answer it to yourself. Can you say and confess from the day you accepted Jesus as your Savior and was baptized you have not committed any sin? Is that true? If you cannot answer yes, it is true I have not committed any sin since I accepted Jesus as my Savior and was baptized, your debate is fruitless.
No more replies on this subject.
RLW
I will just ask one question and you can answer it to yourself. Can you say and confess from the day you accepted Jesus as your Savior and was baptized you have not committed any sin? Is that true? If you cannot answer yes, it is true I have not committed any sin since I accepted Jesus as your Savior and was baptized, your debate is fruitless.
No more replies on this subject.
RLW
Part 4.
You said we grow until we come to the full measure of Christ, and we will be glorified when we get our glorified bodies. "Which I believe also" ( Ephesians 4:12-13.
So at what point do we lose salvation?
Romans 8:13, "For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye (THROUGH THE SPIRIT) DO MORTIFY THE DEEDS OF THE BODY, ye shall live.
We are given Christ spirit for our infirmities, and that is areas we are weak in the flesh.
What you described as one able to keep himself justified is not Salvation at all.
Once you are saved God keeps on saying you. It's not a onetime transaction. Sanctification Is of the Lord, Justification is of the Lord. It's not in your hands to keep yourself saved.
Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
Part 5 I will attempt to give an example of Sanctification under the law and Gods acceptance of man's cleansing himself and a picture of the difference between the ministration of death and the ministration by the Spirit.
See Part 5.
Part 3.
Addressing 1 Timothy 4:1
1 Timothy 4:1. Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils.
This verse is in contrast to what is said in the previous Chapter.
" 1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
1 Timothy 4:1 It can read, "But" the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1 Timothy 3:16 - 1 Timthy 4;1.
Putting them together reads like this.
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. "But" the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
This is saying some will depart from what was formally taught and
giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; It is not talking about losing salvation.
It reminds me of Luke 18:8. I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth? (This should be read shall he find THE faith on the earth?)
See Part 4.
Part 2.
Continuing my response to part 1.
Again, we have Hebrews 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
(No believer has an evil heart of unbelief). The writer is saying examine yourself. Verse 10 he says, "They do always err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
You emphasized 1 John 1;7.
I say: IF we are saved, we ARE walking in the light! if we are not in the light we ARE in darkness!
If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 1 John 1:6-7. (This is confirmation of salvation, not earning it or trying not to lose it.)
I believe we will have to agree to disagree on the verses you addressed in part 4 being that I have already gave my interpretation on these verses.
However, I would like to address 1 Timothy 4:1. In Part 3.
See Part 3.
Part 1.
Response to part 1.
1) You asked,if a man can choose, can he later as a Christian choose to forsake Christ thereby abandoning his salvation and losing the gift of eternal life? Or is it all predestined? If so, why would there be a judgment?
2) You said Isn't it to believe in him whom he sent?) That is true. To some that is easy, all they must do is believe, they have their ticket. Someone then asks them do they believe in God and what Jesus did, all they must do is say yes, I believe. Is it just to believe that is contradictory, is this a half-truth, like you will not surely die? Gen. 3:4-5. Ronald the scripture saysThat if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt BELIEVE IN THY HEART that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Believing in thy heart is a true profession. it would be like the example given in Matthew 7:21-23.
3) Ronald, you asked; If we say when someone walks away or falls back into sin they were never saved to begin with. If we do is that judging? Is there any way for us to know what is in the heart of another man or woman? and if we say they were never saved is that just to support a doctrine?
I would say no the scripture declares them unsaved. Matthew 7:23.
I would also ask you. if you say someone fell back into sin as you said they would lose their salvation. Isn't that judging and is that just to support a doctrine also?
4) Response to part 3.
You said, Concerning Pentecost, Peter was pleading that they accept Jesus as their Messiah that was promised, and they killed Him, not to repent from Judaism. (accepting Jesus Christ is turning from Judaism!) And act 15 they were opposing Judaism. Acts 15:5-11. ' You noticed verse 11? "But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.Peter is saying the Jews shall be saved even as the gentiles!
See Part 2.
You took notice for a reason, all glory to God and His Holy Spirit. Christians have a bad addiction to sin! Just like any other addiction, if we don't acknowledge it and get help, we won't change, we will live in this condition until we die. If we remain a sinner, we will die as a sinner, and we will go to hell as promised in the scriptures.
In scripture below, Jesus promises the invalid that he previously healed that he should "sin no more" or something worse will happen to him!
John 5:14 "Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee."
If those who continue to tell themselves and others that we can't stop sinning, it's just like going up to that invalid that Jesus warned to "sin no more" now we would be telling him: hey we are all sinners, and none of us can ever really stop sinning. You would be stating the exact opposite of what Jesus/God just told the invalid not to do! Do you think God would approve of you telling the invalid that they can't stop sinning?
If we are saying we can't stop sinning, and telling others that they can't stop sinning, we should ask ourselves: Where is this belief/mindset that we can never stop sinning coming from? We know it isn't coming from God. 1John 3:8
I've learned the hard way it's best to not be in conflict with God or His Spirit. If he really loves us, if we sin - He can make us suffer in ways that can get our attention! If he doesn't see we are sincere about sin, a he can take our life, and soul, and put us in hell. I fear God, as we all should, and I offer this to you to help you. Better to say it's hard to stop sinning, but not impossible. God tells us all things are possible if you have faith as a mustard seed Matt 17:20 With God nothing is impossible for us!
Read and Believe
Your opening statement is welcome & much appreciated,
I see that your knowledge of God is from the letter, this is contrary to the Scriptures
Its a knowledge without the Spirit & Life oF Christ, its fruit is a form of godliness without the power to be truly godly
Meaning; it does take away one sins.
Ronald;
how can one "be a slave of Jesus & continue in sin?"
quoting you;
"we have had 2000 years of leaven that we can see everywhere the whole lump is almost bloated."
This is evident token of what the letter produces &
would you consider yourselve a part of this bloatation in continuing to sin?
Rom 6:1,2,6,14,15,16,18,22
"These are about not to continue in sin, sinning without thought or repentance."
Where does it imply this? Are you saying your in premediation to sin and repent later? & if not how do you know you will get a chance to repent? Not to mention that godly sorrow of repentance is an adhorrance in oneself & a resignation of spirit in total reliance on the Grace of God to not commit it again
"accept Jesus and are baptized, "
which baptizmal are we speaking of water or fire? The fire refers to thoroughly purging the threshing floor of our hearts with
unquenchable fire, which burns up the sinful nature, the chaff, thus becoming dead unto sin
Ephesians 4:5 & becoming a partaker of the Divine Nature that does not sin having escape the corruption thru lust
" justified and made righteous no longer a servant to sin"
if you are no more a servant unto sin, then why are you still commting sin?
Ronald the knowledge that you have is not according to the Spirit of the Scriptures
this is not saying you don't have a sincere heart, but are deceived
Everyone haves their day of visitation from the Lord, when He set life & death before them, its a very solemn moment within ,
I pray that when your turn comes
you will choose life. you have a heart for God, just not the true knowledge.
Reread last thread, particularly the end. Waiting on the Lord.
-while disobeying HIS word then we became ineffective Christians who cannot even say boo to a demon.
Yes, Such People and ministries exist
-There are Men of God who are actually Led by the Spirit of God and are called according to the Gifts given to men by our Lord Jesus Christ, but instead of putting a show they fear God and walk with Him.
They that believe in Him, and they that are committed to His do Him will Revelation 12:11, KJV.
But what we are witnessing is.
-Men have departed from God and the church is a business and entertaining industries.
-Men don't pray earnestly before God and if they pray it's a shopping request rather than worship before God.
-No one is taking head according to the word of God and repentance has become optional this days where people have forgeten that God does not hear sinners ( John 9:31, KJV) and our sins separates us from our God (Isiah 59:2,KJV)
-Lets us pick our Bibles and wipe the dust off from them and lets us be given to God in prays and fasting seeking to fellowship with Him always while continuing in the word of GOD grounded in faith Amen.
-Remember faith without works is dead!
Lastly repent of your sin and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ
Amen.
-Wherefore When He died at the cross and purge our sins By Himself and rose on the Third day, He gave gifts unto men to be apostles, prophets, evangelist pastors and some to be teachers. ( Ephesians 4:7, KJV) This is clearly seen across different churches and in many Christians who have repented of their sins at the cross and believed in the Lord Jesus Christ the son of the Living God.
- It is also important to note that God put his power in Moses' rode, but it was upon Moses to pick it and use it. but according to Gods will ( exodus 4:1-3, KJV)
And Remember Elijah a man like us tempted like we are but prayed earnestly and the rain ceased and yet Elijah was a man like us ( James 5:17, KJV)
-The writer of the Book James clearly point this out to all Christians (those who have repented at the cross and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ the Son of the Living God) they that take head according to the word of God ( Psalms 119:9, KJV)
-That if there is anyone sick, let him call the elders of the church to pray for him anointing him with oil in the name of The Lord and the prayer of FAITH will save the sick and if he has committed sin the Lord will forgive Him.
-Moreover, in James 5:16, KJV) God clearly points this to us that we are to confess our trespasses to one other and to pray for one other that we may be Healed.
-For if we confess our sins to each other, we will remain humble in the Lord and when we pray with earnestly before God without doubting ( 1 timothy 2:8, KJV) the Lord is faithful who will also do it
Remember prayer is not a shopping list but worshiping the Lord God with Your heart mind and soul.
The conclusion of the matter.
-The Lord still heals the blind, heals the sick and raises the dead according to the Scriptures.
And He does not change but we me and you we change and if we pray in mockery and be covetous in ministry.
-Prophesying for attention picking and choosing the portions of the Scriptures that we want to believe
There was a question posted few weeks, regarding The Gift of The Holy Spirit.
Part 1
-I believe Jesus Christ is the son of the Living God and He died on the Cross for my sins, and He was buried and rose on the third Day and He is sited at the right hand of the father, and He is our high priest according to the order of Melchizedek.
-Brethren bear this in mind that God is the same and He does not change.
As it is written Malachi 3:6, kjv
For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
-As God spoke by the prophets in time past in these days, these last hours ( John 1:18) He speaks to us by His beloved son in whom we have been qualified to be saints in the inheritance in the light by His blood at the cross By repentance. ( Colossians 1:12-14,KJV)
-And if you have repented at the cross and received salvation which is by grace and faith alone none of any of our works then we receive gifts according to His will which He gives for the edifying of the ministry (body of Christ For He is the Head of the Church Colossians 1:18, KJV.)
As it written in Ephesians 4:7-8, KJV
7.But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
-And in time past ( Hebrews 1:1, KJV) They the prophets healed the sick, raised the dead and provided provisions and all according to the will of God and not mans will.
-Therefore, we serve the same Living God who has been in the beginning and Does not Change and Was manifest unto us as a child, but He was there from the begging as a Son given unto us as a Son Mighty God, everlasting Father. (Isiah 6:9 KJV)
As it is written in 1 timothy 3:16, KJV.
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Part 2 next.
Verse 1 states "In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness." This corresponds with the healing waters from the Temple in Ezekiel 47 as well as Revelation 20 for the nations of the world.
Verses 2 through 5 discuss the end of false prophets; even the death of a family member who prophesies lies. Verse 6 seems to also be a prophesy of Christ as well as a warning of how when the Lord returns there is no more toleration from anyone closely associated with a false prophet.
Verse 7 is clearly a prophesy of Christ as cross referenced in Matthew 26:31 since Christ quoted it.
Verse 8 and 9 discuss a subject I've mentioned previously in the posts on Zechariah; on the third that make it through the Tribulation. It should be noted that God hears them. I have also noted for those who think this is cruel as to the interpretation; that mankind will be rarer than gold overall when the Day of Judgment comes. ( Isaiah 13:12). Truly; the cost of rejecting their Messiah and many centuries of rebellion has cost Israel dearly as to blessings they could have had. Nonetheless, they are once again established in their homeland and they will never completely be annihilated there despite the gathering of all nations against them in the last days.
1 Cor 10:33, "Even as I(Paul) please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.
Philippians 2:19-21, "19But I trust in the Lord Jesus to send Timotheus shortly unto you, that I also may be of good comfort, when I know your state. 20For I have no man likeminded, who will naturally care for your state. 21For all seek their own, not the things which are Jesus Christ's."
Lets pay attention to verse 21. Even at that time people were interested in their affairs, with some exceptions like Paul and Timothy. How difficult is for one to devote himself to the needs of others. But Jesus did exactly that.
Have a blessed weekend.
Riches I heed not, nor man's empty praise,
Thou mine inheritance, now and always:
Thou and Thou only, first in my heart,
High King of heaven, my treasure Thou art.
2 concepts are indicated in these lyrics. First; praise isn't always accepted by God and second riches of this world often are treasured above the Lord. Both of these points are an issue when it comes to the Contemporary Christian music industry; in particular.
Lucifer according to Ezekiel 28 and Isaiah 14 was anointed as a Cherubim with musical giftings built into him. He chose glory for himself; therefore lost his place in heaven and consequently; can only use his talents for evil purposes today. It is hard to conceive that those who have written scripturally sound lyrics in the past could abandon the Lord; but mind boggling to see those who have continued to confess Christ but accept all the ideologies contrary to scripture. This is certainly reminiscent of the type of people you would expect in the last days Laodicean type church. The kind of God which is worshipped in this case is one sided toward love and acceptance and doesn't look at repentance seriously. God loved us enough to send His Son ( John 3:16) but when the Son had our sins placed on Him the Father had to look away. ( Matthew 27:46; Habakkuk 1:13).
There are exceptions; of course of artists whose lives truly reflect the proper doctrines; and show the proper behavior as a humble servant. This often at the very least means turning down more lucrative offers that cause compromise and starting your own music label. Many start in local churches then end up getting sucked into the greed of worldly desires for success and any new musician should have regular discipling and close association with a local church; preferably as a member. We should pray also for those who are gifted musically in secular circles that they will turn to Christ and witness to them when opportunities arise.
Well I looked that up and yes, there was that person Marcion in the early church who was teaching that there are 2 different Gods. An inferior God in the OT who was strict with people and a superior God in the NT who was mercyful to people. Markion claimed that YAHWEH was the God of the OT. He could not understand why God behaved in different ways in the Old from the New Testament. So he found the solution of 2 different Gods each of them acting in a different age. Still Markion didn't call devil the person that was called YAHWEH, just an inferior God. His teachings were condemned by the early church.
GBU
1 Cor 30-32,
"30. For this cause (taking the Body and Blood of Jesus while unclean) many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
31. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
32. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world."
What does the above say?
It says that if we take the Holy Communion while we are not clean then God will allow(or cause) illnesses and even death to come to us. Why? We are judged by Him in order to make us repent and so we will not be condemned together with the sinful world. Everything that God does is because of His love to us. He even causes hard things to us to make us keep going and cross the finish line. That may sound a bit strange to people but actually we do the same thing to our kids. When they are not obedient and they do bad things, we often punish them to make obey and keep on the straight path.
1 Cor 10:16,
"The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?"
1 Cor 11:23-29,
"23. For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: 24. And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.25. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. 26. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come. 27. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. 29For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body."
Points of attention:
1. Communion of the Body and Blood of Christ. IT IS(not a symbol of) the Blood and It IS (not a symbol of) the Body of Christ.
2.Verse 29, lets pay attention to that "descerning the Lord's body", so It is the symbol of it.
3. If those were symbols, then nothing would happen to the believers when taking them while having sins. Why would anything happen to them? No reason. BUT if they are really the Body and Blood of Jesus then Holy things are entering our body and if there are sins in us then we are in trouble. In the same way in the OT when the priests were entering the "Holy of the Hollies" which means the place of the full and immediate presence of God, and they were not clean, then they were in danger of falling down dead.
"There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."
The above verse seems to be in contradiction to itself. "But will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it"??? ". A way to escape" SO THAT "you will be able to bear it"?. If God provides a way to escape why do I have to bear it? Either I have to bear itemptation OR I am given a way out. It can't be both. So what's going on here.
Although all translations, not just the KJB, say the same thing, even grk Bibles are of similar interpretation, let's see the grk:
"...alla (But) poiesei ([HE] will do) syn to peirasmo (together with the temptation) kai ten ekbasin (this can be translated as "and the result/ outcome", etc ) tou dynasthai ymas ypenegkein(to make you able to bear). Lets sum it up, "But together with the temptation [He] will give the outcome(something that will have an outcome in your struggle) to make you able to bear." The verse implies that God will give you the tools/strength to bear temptation NOT a way out to free you, as it is seems.
Well, I may be wrong here but this is how I know it.
You did not address this directly with me, but I felt it. This is not to debate it with you. I know in my heart nothing I have posted comes from Satan. There is a difference between, we sin, and we serve sin, dead in or dead to.
Ephesians 2:1:4 When we are born, we are born dead in trespasses and sins, and we remain in that spiritually dead state until we believe in faith Jesus as our savior and are baptized for the remission of our sins, at that moment we who were dead in sin are made spiritually alive in Jesus, Ephesians 2:5.
We confess to now be dead to sin and the old way of living and walk in the newness of life found in following Jesus, Romans 6:1-4. We are dead to sin and alive to God and we have a new walk, Romans 6:2,11. Dead to sin means we are no longer a slave to sin, we are no longer serving sin, Romans 6:6. We no longer allow sin to reign in our body.
This doesn't mean that a Christian will ever reach a state of sinless perfection while on this earth. As long as we are in this mortal body, sins will on occasion be committed. However, the point we became dead to sin through Jesus we will never participate in a lifestyle of persistent, continual, habitual sin. We will never let sin reign over us again, we are no longer sin slaves.
Slip-ups and stumbles are likely, part of us having the Adamic nature, Jesus is faithful and just to forgive our sins if we confess them. If we go back to our evil ways slaves to sin letting sin reign over us instead of our Savior Jesus, no more forgiveness, we are again dead in sin, living in sin.
This is what my understanding is, given to me through prayer and the guidance of the Spirit of God. If we say or teach we can get to a point while in this mortal body, we will never sin again, is that not the same as you shall not surely die??? Only One has or ever will live in this flesh and did not sin. Repentance is not a one-time thing, it is how we live, our walk in the Spirit.
God bless,
RLW
1.Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed
through the sea;
2. And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3. And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
4. And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 5. But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
Points of attention:
1."all our fathers were under the cloud" - means under God's presence.
2. "And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea" - represents getting baptized in water and in the Spirit
3. And did all eat the same spiritual meat and drink - represents getting fully tought the Word of God
4. The result? They were overthrown in the wilderness - end of the road for them
Why that result??
Verses 6-11:
6. NOW THESE THINGS WERE OUR EXAMPLES, TO THE INENT WE SHOULD NOT LUST AFTER EVIL THINGD, AS THEY ALSO
LUSTED.
7. Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
8. Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
9. Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
10. Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
11. NOW ALL THESE THINGS HAPPENED UNTO THEM FOR ENSAMPLES: AND THEY ARE WRITTEN FOR OUR ADMONITION, UPON
WHOM THE ENDS OF THE WORD COME.
When sin gets in, we get out.
In his 2nd letter to Timothy which is Paul's last letter before his martyrdom, Paul says:
2 Timothy 4:6-7,
7. I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
8. Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, BUT UNTO ALL THEM ALSO that love his appearing.
Well, Paul finished his course/run, he fought the good fight and hence the prize of the crown of righteousness (salvation) awaits for him.
If he stopped running, if he stopped fighting, if he didn't keep the faith...???
24. Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
25. And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
26. I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
27.But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
I don't think the above needs any further explanation. It is very clear.
No run, no prize, no fight no prize.