My last posting raised the question where was evidence for persecution for almost all the "famous" preachers of the last century?
It has truly saddened me to see how Billy Graham seemed to sell out in many ways; and to be at all glad that a special star was made for him in Hollywood (at least I think that's where it is) should be a warning signal when he didn't immediately reject such worldly acclaim. The truth is; unless one is truly dangerous to the Kingdom of darkness they won't be much resisted.
I won't mention anyone currently living by name; but there are other celebrities who have museums named after them and who clearly have sold out to the Christian music "industry"; where we see many performing secular music eventually; and a number becoming atheists of late.
Persecution can come in many forms: Should we preach the truth we should expect those under demonic influence or disturbed to bring resistance as I have witnessed myself personally in the past. I also saw a con artist who used flattery and apparently eventually went elsewhere and bamboozled someone to marry him for her money. He was claiming to be a miracle worker sort of person from one of the African nations. We also can expect people to come who are victims of abuse; I have seen this as well with a wife of an abusive alcoholic. We can expect people who need deliverance; I got to witness that as well as well as hearing of a successful one in my church; although sadly someone ELSE I felt ill prepared for and I'm not sure if he ever went through with it. The enemy will use disturbed people to test our fearlessness. There are some things that must be dealt with outside a formal service but we should be ready to have our comfort zones tested; or how will we be ready when real persecution begins and we are jailed or attacked? We all have to ask ourselves are we ready to rely on the Holy Spirit and truly fight offenively against the enemy?
The Holy Spirit: Living out our faith vs. "smoke and mirrors"
I have discussed apparently more than once in Philippians 1 about how many preached out of envy to add to Paul's suffering as no doubt those preaching this way would bring the accusation that Christians truly are unhinged; and not in the way the Lord intends.
God says that He "draws all men to Himself" ( John 12:32) to be accomplished after the Resurrection.
When we see the sideshow that is so often the megachurch power and numbers game; which in reality is usually just "filthy lucre" as a motivation ( Titus 1:11; 1 Tim. 3:3 etc) it kind of reminds us of Judas Iscariot on steroids; everybody out for a buck and willing to pay into the system so that they can also gain earthly riches. The only one this works for is other hucksters hence we see the company many of these fraudulent Pastors keep which in reality is the only company they respect. I can only imagine what the true titles of some of their conference meeting motivational topics would be if exposed.
INTERNATIONAL conference on ways to fleece the flock: No holds barred. Special invite only for ministries grossing 10 Million a year: Highlights
How to pass the buck with the shell game approach; avoid paying taxes in the US; how to apply to YOUR country
How to impress your King or President with favors
How to maximize giving through flattery; guilt and confusion. Special EVENING devotion on the new "Shock and Awe" approach
How to make it happen: signs; wonders-get the right title for your ministry: "Healing" and "Deliverance ministries OFFICIAL decal for 5000 dollar annual fee.
I may get flagged for this sarcasm but these are techniques being used today. It is truly sobering to see that in many of the so called revivals in the last century there were serious problems; from the anarchy that was prevalent in the Azuza street ministry to many unverified "miracles" with A.A. Allen and others with questionable morals. And no persecution?
In light of my previous attempt to cover some areas in regard to Baptism and other important factors that should aid in raising Godly children; I started discussing how the Spirit works in a household as a specific example from scriptures on the subject.
Joshua 24:15 says: And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
In light of Genesis 15:16 and the sin of the Amorites coming to the fullness about 400 years later and then being devoted to destruction; we certainly can look to the approximately 400 years we have been a nation since Plymouth Rock and how far we have strayed; no doubt worshipping some of the entities which our ancestors found with the American Indians who were considered "pagans" at the time and in general wantonly destroyed. We also could go further and see how the Indian nations themselves were in a sense being judged for some of their wicked practices; although my cousin an expert on the subject gave me a book about 20 years ago which shows the incredible complexity; diversity and number of Indian nations.
Anyway; looking at Proverbs 14:34
"Righteousness exalteth a nation: but sin is a reproach to any people."
Since John 16:8 mentions sin; righteousness and judgment to come as the working of the Holy Spirit I thought I would reiterate what I have said on numerous occasions with a particular angle. When we are believers we can discern others who are full of the Spirit because we sense conviction of unworthiness as well as the love of Christ at the same time. That truly is a paradox; but shows us a healthy fear of God but exposes us to His mercy as well; and it is and should be truly unnerving at times. That is what I would like to live out; but admit I am sadly short.
Thanks bro Giannis for those additional thoughts. If I might address your first paragraph, re: Jesus' conversation with Nicodemus. You mentioned, "Jesus said that except one is not born again (or from above)", or as the Bible quotes, "Except a man be born again"; ordinarily, I can see that there's a difference in meaning here, but can also see that the difference can also be seen as negligible, or just creating an argument on semantics. For the word 'except', I could use it equivalent, 'unless', which then correctly addresses Jesus' Words, that 'unless a man IS born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God', as opposed to, "unless a man is NOT born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God".
Also, I take your point on, "he cannot SEE the kingdom of God", as honestly I've never observed any difference between 'see' & 'enter' (as in John 3:5), yet I stand corrected in my understanding. But, I note the difference in the Greek words in this respect & also how it cannot apply to infant baptism. But are you of the general persuasion that John 3:5 "born of water and of the Spirit" applies to water baptism & Spirit baptism, rather than my understanding that it applies to 'physical and spiritual births', as an answer to Nicodemus' perplexity? Or, if to the former (i.e. to water baptism), then the necessity of water baptism which must be essential for salvation. GBU.
Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger. ( Psalm 8:2)
And did not he make one? Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one? That he might seek a godly seed. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth. ( Malachi 2:15)
For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. ( 1 Cor. 7:14).
The first verse here bolsters what I said in my last posting. The Lord can and will be loved by small children; because they haven't discovered ways through their own sin nature yet to create their own Kingdom.
The other verses here show what I have argued in the past as being THE most important factor in raising children from the start. That is two parents who are in a genuine covenantal marriage with God and ideally both believers. It appears that if the marriage is honorable than even one believing person can somehow bring the blessing of the Holy Spirit over the whole household. This is a mystery and cannot always guarantee children will remain in the faith but I feel since it IS in the Word it merits careful consideration. I am aware from testimony of one of my friends that after he and his wife came to faith evil presences were removed from their house. Truly KNOWING the Lord should mean there is some tangible comprehension that the Lord is present in our midst. Sadly in today's churches this experiental faith is either entirely disregarded or people are wildly excited about everything without discerning if it is from the Devil or their own imaginations. If the Lord is mocked and sin abounds we can be SURE the Holy Spirit isn't behind any manifestation. The best way I can describe it is a spiritual experience may seem good but the Lord is unique for a true believer KNOWS His voice.
"Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it."
My friend in Pittsburgh is the only one I have had to privilege to see correctly raising Christian children (I have no kids of my own).
Truth be told; his kids have presented materials from the Bible in school papers to their teacher's chagrin; and 2 are now in college but none of his 6 kids know the Lord yet as far as I know. Since I moved from there he has become a Deacon in his church; and it is much deserved in my opinion; my friend is very wise and truly loves the Lord; witnessing on the job as well as when other opportunities arise on the street.
Some have brought up the whole concept of today's methods of declaring someone to be in the faith because of some verbal assent (otherwise sarcastically called "decisional regeneration"). I am not going to attack this from a Calvinistic viewpoint; but from a "fruit inspection" one. And let's consider how this same process is further exacerbated with our own offspring and in particular how children are presented with Gospel truths. It is appropriate for a 5 year old to be given a softened version at least of scriptures of a graphic nature; which would include ones talking of Christ's sufferings to some extent. What we can do; of course is tell them how much we love and fear the Lord IF we live this as a reality. By the time a kid is say 12 or 13 they need to be getting into matter of fact verses about sin and their need for a Savior. FOR SURE they should be taught and experiencing a healthy prayer life; being made to be WARRIORS in a hostile world. That; in tandem with scripture reading.
In ALL stages we should be no less TENACIOUS than the world who is now forcing the politically correct agenda and forced procedures on kids as young as kindergarten today. Let us remember Psalm 8:2: Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies...
Leviticus 27:28 Notwithstanding no devoted thing, that a man shall devote unto the LORD of all that he hath, both of man and beast, and of the field of his possession, shall be sold or redeemed: every devoted thing is most holy unto the LORD.
When we consider how Jesus Himself became our perfect living sacrifice; and how we are expected to reflect the same ( Romans 12:1-2) we can see the beauty in His death; even though His visage was marred more than any man ( Isaiah 52:14).
In consideration of what seems to be a repeated theme on this site the last few days; we should consider the gravity of dedicating our FAMILY members to the Lord. In a larger sense ALL of mankind is part of God's Creation (all souls are mine ( Ezekiel 18:4).
The principal that those who know will receive many beatings compared to those who don't ( Luke 12:47-48) we hope will occur in this life; not in eternal judgment.
I am not saying we shouldn't teach our children about Christ; and probably in regard to infant baptism; I would agree when they are in the "age of innocence" despite being "little sinners" it is only the adult who will be judged irresponsible if indeed it is a violation of God's will to do this. Instead; I think we need to look more seriously at older children and teens who still are attending church activities when living with their parents. True; if we teach our children diligently ( Deut. 6:7) and give them a moral compass at least from a worldly standpoint they likely will avoid many mistakes; often deadly in today's society. But of course we should know better than expect them to automatically continue once they move out; go to college or become of working age. It is inappropriate to lock them up or something once they reach a certain maturity.
The children need to know as they learn doctrines they become more responsible; hence the warnings of Matthew 11:24 need to be taken into consideration. At some point the hard verses need to be taught.
In my church babies are dedicated to God. When they are of an age, more than say one-one and a half months old they are brought by their parents to the church and they are dedicated to the Lord by the pastor. So God takes officially control of their lives and is leading them to His will as they grow up. They learn the Bible gradually as they are growing up until the time they realize that they are sinners and they are eventually regenerated by God. Then water baptism comes next. Not in an standard age, that differs from a child to an other. Some before 10, other after 10, other after 20, other never.
And here is where the responsibility of the church starts. It has to minister these kids to become true christians when they are grown adults. It is also the responsibility of the family. Families that attend the congregation frequently and send their kids to child and youth studies, pray together, study together and do everything to protect their kids from the outside world have good results. Families that are generally careless and don't avoid mixing with the sinful world have usually disasterous results. The problem nowadays in the christian community that looses its young people to the world is that we don't avoid the world as the older generations were doing. We are a bit careless, we underestimate the dangers or we have been compromized with the world. We have become neither hot nor cold. And the kids do what they see in us. GBU
Lets go back to that conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus. Jesus said that except one is not born again (or from above, both translations can be right, the latter more possible) then he can not SEE the kingdom of God. Pay attention to that "SEE". It doesn't say ENTER but SEE. For one to "see" which means to have a knowledge, an understanding, realize, about the Kingdom of God. they must be of an age that they understand, isn't it so? Later on Jesus explains that "born from above". He says that except one is born from water and (from) the Spirit he can not enter the kingdom of God. So that "born again" is explained by Jesus as "born from water and from the Spirit". We know who the Spirit is. But water? If Jesus means the water of baptism (for infants) then that contradicts that "see" above. It also contradicts the verses in 1 Peter 1:23-25 where we are told that new birth occurs by the Word of God which was prached to us by the gospel. So according to these at least infant baptism is out of any consideration.
What about children that can have an understaning? I know many cases that little children can sometime in their lives understand that they do sins, eg say a lie, steal a toy, disobey their parents, little things that kids do. They can not understand the fullness of sin as the adults do but they know they do something wrong and want to be forgiven by God. How do they know they do some things wrong? Because they hear the Word of God that is preached to them in church and by their parents back home. So I believe that although they are not in the age of accountability still God regenerates them. I have seen kids that they have changed completely after new birth and have stopped being naughty after regeneration. They pray to God and try to live properly as the Bible says. So I think those are eligible for water baptism.
How did Noah's son's produce different races of people, When its said in the Ark was Noah and his wife and sons so how did they all produce different race of people
thank u father u changed me i worship u everyday n im not assamed im happy i turn my life around im 17 rn and i just pray everyday that things go back to normal i miss my sisters right now there in a foster home im just letting god handle this for me cuz he knows how much they mean to me like he showing me what i can do he knows im strong i just wake up everyday n i pray i was in a deep black hole doing things i dont wanna talk abt but thank u lord u give me a reason to keep pushing without u i would still be doing bad things but worse im just scared father i cant lose them if u can hear me calling out to u for help i really hope n pray n listen to worship music like i never used to this father im giving my life to u thank u so much for all the blessing u send to me everyday im on this earth its a blessing i just want my sisters back lord amen.
I am haunted by bad memories. My mind replays negative memories repeatedly. I don't know how to control it. And I get anxiety at night time. Please pray for me.
Thank you bro. S. Spencer for sharing that article & your thoughts on this matter of 'infant baptism'.
That was an interesting read for sure, but I do particularly note at your Part 4 (2nd para), quoting Paul Owen, "being spiritually regenerated as new-born babes, even as the Lord has declared: 'Except a man be BORN AGAIN through water and the Spirit, he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven". Here, Paul Owen is quoting John 3:5, which actually says, "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God"; Jesus is not speaking of being born again of water, but of being born of water (of = 'ek', from, from out of), which Jesus qualifies in verse 6, "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit". So Jesus is equating "being born of water" with the physical natural birth (which Nicodemus was specifically questioning in verse 4), and only the birth of (from) the Spirit is what is needed to enter "the kingdom of God". So Paul Owen's slight change of verse 5 to read "except a man be born again through water and the Spirit", can easily lead one to accept that Jesus was proclaiming baptismal regeneration.
And of course, as you rightly stated, a child (of whatever age), when he/she is able to understand what sin is & their own falling short of God's perfection, and that the only remedy is not found in them but in God's Provision of a Savior, then that little one must be led to the Cross, in faith & love, embracing Christ. In this, I see a full warrant for 'child baptism', or else a premature sprinkling on an innocent unaware child would amount to simply a type of 'child dedication' by the parents, which dedication of course, is highly commendable, sans the sprinkling. Blessings brother.
I will pray for your husband and you in this situation. It is hard to live with someone who gets angry easily. My husband is a bit like that, but I make it a point to keep my head about me so that the situation can be decelerated. It is hard to undo relational patterns, but God can help. He has helped us over the 44 years we have been married.
Nathan has been on my mind throughout the day today and I continue to pray for God to intervene according to His will which is always best.
I can only imagine how painful this is to Nathan and they may still be evaluating his injuries so they may not want to put him out just yet so as not to depress any vital systems functioning. I will pray for his parents who must be sick with worry.
Keep us posted. I hope to hear better news about Nathan soon. But God is good, sovereign, knows Nathan through and through, is completely aware of all his injuries and results of this accident, and is almighty. So, we can entrust those we love to Him.
My last posting raised the question where was evidence for persecution for almost all the "famous" preachers of the last century?
It has truly saddened me to see how Billy Graham seemed to sell out in many ways; and to be at all glad that a special star was made for him in Hollywood (at least I think that's where it is) should be a warning signal when he didn't immediately reject such worldly acclaim. The truth is; unless one is truly dangerous to the Kingdom of darkness they won't be much resisted.
I won't mention anyone currently living by name; but there are other celebrities who have museums named after them and who clearly have sold out to the Christian music "industry"; where we see many performing secular music eventually; and a number becoming atheists of late.
Persecution can come in many forms: Should we preach the truth we should expect those under demonic influence or disturbed to bring resistance as I have witnessed myself personally in the past. I also saw a con artist who used flattery and apparently eventually went elsewhere and bamboozled someone to marry him for her money. He was claiming to be a miracle worker sort of person from one of the African nations. We also can expect people to come who are victims of abuse; I have seen this as well with a wife of an abusive alcoholic. We can expect people who need deliverance; I got to witness that as well as well as hearing of a successful one in my church; although sadly someone ELSE I felt ill prepared for and I'm not sure if he ever went through with it. The enemy will use disturbed people to test our fearlessness. There are some things that must be dealt with outside a formal service but we should be ready to have our comfort zones tested; or how will we be ready when real persecution begins and we are jailed or attacked? We all have to ask ourselves are we ready to rely on the Holy Spirit and truly fight offenively against the enemy?
I have discussed apparently more than once in Philippians 1 about how many preached out of envy to add to Paul's suffering as no doubt those preaching this way would bring the accusation that Christians truly are unhinged; and not in the way the Lord intends.
God says that He "draws all men to Himself" ( John 12:32) to be accomplished after the Resurrection.
When we see the sideshow that is so often the megachurch power and numbers game; which in reality is usually just "filthy lucre" as a motivation ( Titus 1:11; 1 Tim. 3:3 etc) it kind of reminds us of Judas Iscariot on steroids; everybody out for a buck and willing to pay into the system so that they can also gain earthly riches. The only one this works for is other hucksters hence we see the company many of these fraudulent Pastors keep which in reality is the only company they respect. I can only imagine what the true titles of some of their conference meeting motivational topics would be if exposed.
INTERNATIONAL conference on ways to fleece the flock: No holds barred. Special invite only for ministries grossing 10 Million a year: Highlights
How to pass the buck with the shell game approach; avoid paying taxes in the US; how to apply to YOUR country
How to impress your King or President with favors
How to maximize giving through flattery; guilt and confusion. Special EVENING devotion on the new "Shock and Awe" approach
How to make it happen: signs; wonders-get the right title for your ministry: "Healing" and "Deliverance ministries OFFICIAL decal for 5000 dollar annual fee.
I may get flagged for this sarcasm but these are techniques being used today. It is truly sobering to see that in many of the so called revivals in the last century there were serious problems; from the anarchy that was prevalent in the Azuza street ministry to many unverified "miracles" with A.A. Allen and others with questionable morals. And no persecution?
In light of my previous attempt to cover some areas in regard to Baptism and other important factors that should aid in raising Godly children; I started discussing how the Spirit works in a household as a specific example from scriptures on the subject.
Joshua 24:15 says: And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
In light of Genesis 15:16 and the sin of the Amorites coming to the fullness about 400 years later and then being devoted to destruction; we certainly can look to the approximately 400 years we have been a nation since Plymouth Rock and how far we have strayed; no doubt worshipping some of the entities which our ancestors found with the American Indians who were considered "pagans" at the time and in general wantonly destroyed. We also could go further and see how the Indian nations themselves were in a sense being judged for some of their wicked practices; although my cousin an expert on the subject gave me a book about 20 years ago which shows the incredible complexity; diversity and number of Indian nations.
Anyway; looking at Proverbs 14:34
"Righteousness exalteth a nation: but sin is a reproach to any people."
Since John 16:8 mentions sin; righteousness and judgment to come as the working of the Holy Spirit I thought I would reiterate what I have said on numerous occasions with a particular angle. When we are believers we can discern others who are full of the Spirit because we sense conviction of unworthiness as well as the love of Christ at the same time. That truly is a paradox; but shows us a healthy fear of God but exposes us to His mercy as well; and it is and should be truly unnerving at times. That is what I would like to live out; but admit I am sadly short.
Also, I take your point on, "he cannot SEE the kingdom of God", as honestly I've never observed any difference between 'see' & 'enter' (as in John 3:5), yet I stand corrected in my understanding. But, I note the difference in the Greek words in this respect & also how it cannot apply to infant baptism. But are you of the general persuasion that John 3:5 "born of water and of the Spirit" applies to water baptism & Spirit baptism, rather than my understanding that it applies to 'physical and spiritual births', as an answer to Nicodemus' perplexity? Or, if to the former (i.e. to water baptism), then the necessity of water baptism which must be essential for salvation. GBU.
And did not he make one? Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one? That he might seek a godly seed. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth. ( Malachi 2:15)
For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. ( 1 Cor. 7:14).
The first verse here bolsters what I said in my last posting. The Lord can and will be loved by small children; because they haven't discovered ways through their own sin nature yet to create their own Kingdom.
The other verses here show what I have argued in the past as being THE most important factor in raising children from the start. That is two parents who are in a genuine covenantal marriage with God and ideally both believers. It appears that if the marriage is honorable than even one believing person can somehow bring the blessing of the Holy Spirit over the whole household. This is a mystery and cannot always guarantee children will remain in the faith but I feel since it IS in the Word it merits careful consideration. I am aware from testimony of one of my friends that after he and his wife came to faith evil presences were removed from their house. Truly KNOWING the Lord should mean there is some tangible comprehension that the Lord is present in our midst. Sadly in today's churches this experiental faith is either entirely disregarded or people are wildly excited about everything without discerning if it is from the Devil or their own imaginations. If the Lord is mocked and sin abounds we can be SURE the Holy Spirit isn't behind any manifestation. The best way I can describe it is a spiritual experience may seem good but the Lord is unique for a true believer KNOWS His voice.
"Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it."
My friend in Pittsburgh is the only one I have had to privilege to see correctly raising Christian children (I have no kids of my own).
Truth be told; his kids have presented materials from the Bible in school papers to their teacher's chagrin; and 2 are now in college but none of his 6 kids know the Lord yet as far as I know. Since I moved from there he has become a Deacon in his church; and it is much deserved in my opinion; my friend is very wise and truly loves the Lord; witnessing on the job as well as when other opportunities arise on the street.
Some have brought up the whole concept of today's methods of declaring someone to be in the faith because of some verbal assent (otherwise sarcastically called "decisional regeneration"). I am not going to attack this from a Calvinistic viewpoint; but from a "fruit inspection" one. And let's consider how this same process is further exacerbated with our own offspring and in particular how children are presented with Gospel truths. It is appropriate for a 5 year old to be given a softened version at least of scriptures of a graphic nature; which would include ones talking of Christ's sufferings to some extent. What we can do; of course is tell them how much we love and fear the Lord IF we live this as a reality. By the time a kid is say 12 or 13 they need to be getting into matter of fact verses about sin and their need for a Savior. FOR SURE they should be taught and experiencing a healthy prayer life; being made to be WARRIORS in a hostile world. That; in tandem with scripture reading.
In ALL stages we should be no less TENACIOUS than the world who is now forcing the politically correct agenda and forced procedures on kids as young as kindergarten today. Let us remember Psalm 8:2: Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies...
When we consider how Jesus Himself became our perfect living sacrifice; and how we are expected to reflect the same ( Romans 12:1-2) we can see the beauty in His death; even though His visage was marred more than any man ( Isaiah 52:14).
In consideration of what seems to be a repeated theme on this site the last few days; we should consider the gravity of dedicating our FAMILY members to the Lord. In a larger sense ALL of mankind is part of God's Creation (all souls are mine ( Ezekiel 18:4).
The principal that those who know will receive many beatings compared to those who don't ( Luke 12:47-48) we hope will occur in this life; not in eternal judgment.
I am not saying we shouldn't teach our children about Christ; and probably in regard to infant baptism; I would agree when they are in the "age of innocence" despite being "little sinners" it is only the adult who will be judged irresponsible if indeed it is a violation of God's will to do this. Instead; I think we need to look more seriously at older children and teens who still are attending church activities when living with their parents. True; if we teach our children diligently ( Deut. 6:7) and give them a moral compass at least from a worldly standpoint they likely will avoid many mistakes; often deadly in today's society. But of course we should know better than expect them to automatically continue once they move out; go to college or become of working age. It is inappropriate to lock them up or something once they reach a certain maturity.
The children need to know as they learn doctrines they become more responsible; hence the warnings of Matthew 11:24 need to be taken into consideration. At some point the hard verses need to be taught.
God bless.
In my church babies are dedicated to God. When they are of an age, more than say one-one and a half months old they are brought by their parents to the church and they are dedicated to the Lord by the pastor. So God takes officially control of their lives and is leading them to His will as they grow up. They learn the Bible gradually as they are growing up until the time they realize that they are sinners and they are eventually regenerated by God. Then water baptism comes next. Not in an standard age, that differs from a child to an other. Some before 10, other after 10, other after 20, other never.
And here is where the responsibility of the church starts. It has to minister these kids to become true christians when they are grown adults. It is also the responsibility of the family. Families that attend the congregation frequently and send their kids to child and youth studies, pray together, study together and do everything to protect their kids from the outside world have good results. Families that are generally careless and don't avoid mixing with the sinful world have usually disasterous results. The problem nowadays in the christian community that looses its young people to the world is that we don't avoid the world as the older generations were doing. We are a bit careless, we underestimate the dangers or we have been compromized with the world. We have become neither hot nor cold. And the kids do what they see in us. GBU
May I add a few things on baptism?
Lets go back to that conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus. Jesus said that except one is not born again (or from above, both translations can be right, the latter more possible) then he can not SEE the kingdom of God. Pay attention to that "SEE". It doesn't say ENTER but SEE. For one to "see" which means to have a knowledge, an understanding, realize, about the Kingdom of God. they must be of an age that they understand, isn't it so? Later on Jesus explains that "born from above". He says that except one is born from water and (from) the Spirit he can not enter the kingdom of God. So that "born again" is explained by Jesus as "born from water and from the Spirit". We know who the Spirit is. But water? If Jesus means the water of baptism (for infants) then that contradicts that "see" above. It also contradicts the verses in 1 Peter 1:23-25 where we are told that new birth occurs by the Word of God which was prached to us by the gospel. So according to these at least infant baptism is out of any consideration.
What about children that can have an understaning? I know many cases that little children can sometime in their lives understand that they do sins, eg say a lie, steal a toy, disobey their parents, little things that kids do. They can not understand the fullness of sin as the adults do but they know they do something wrong and want to be forgiven by God. How do they know they do some things wrong? Because they hear the Word of God that is preached to them in church and by their parents back home. So I believe that although they are not in the age of accountability still God regenerates them. I have seen kids that they have changed completely after new birth and have stopped being naughty after regeneration. They pray to God and try to live properly as the Bible says. So I think those are eligible for water baptism.
God Bless :)
That was an interesting read for sure, but I do particularly note at your Part 4 (2nd para), quoting Paul Owen, "being spiritually regenerated as new-born babes, even as the Lord has declared: 'Except a man be BORN AGAIN through water and the Spirit, he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven". Here, Paul Owen is quoting John 3:5, which actually says, "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God"; Jesus is not speaking of being born again of water, but of being born of water (of = 'ek', from, from out of), which Jesus qualifies in verse 6, "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit". So Jesus is equating "being born of water" with the physical natural birth (which Nicodemus was specifically questioning in verse 4), and only the birth of (from) the Spirit is what is needed to enter "the kingdom of God". So Paul Owen's slight change of verse 5 to read "except a man be born again through water and the Spirit", can easily lead one to accept that Jesus was proclaiming baptismal regeneration.
And of course, as you rightly stated, a child (of whatever age), when he/she is able to understand what sin is & their own falling short of God's perfection, and that the only remedy is not found in them but in God's Provision of a Savior, then that little one must be led to the Cross, in faith & love, embracing Christ. In this, I see a full warrant for 'child baptism', or else a premature sprinkling on an innocent unaware child would amount to simply a type of 'child dedication' by the parents, which dedication of course, is highly commendable, sans the sprinkling. Blessings brother.
I lift up all these requests before our Heavenly Father now.
I will pray for your husband and you in this situation. It is hard to live with someone who gets angry easily. My husband is a bit like that, but I make it a point to keep my head about me so that the situation can be decelerated. It is hard to undo relational patterns, but God can help. He has helped us over the 44 years we have been married.
I will pray for your grands.
I pray that our Heavenly Father heals your marriage and blesses your union in a multitude of ways.
I will pray for you and your daughter. May God gift you with answers to your needs soon.
Nathan has been on my mind throughout the day today and I continue to pray for God to intervene according to His will which is always best.
I can only imagine how painful this is to Nathan and they may still be evaluating his injuries so they may not want to put him out just yet so as not to depress any vital systems functioning. I will pray for his parents who must be sick with worry.
Keep us posted. I hope to hear better news about Nathan soon. But God is good, sovereign, knows Nathan through and through, is completely aware of all his injuries and results of this accident, and is almighty. So, we can entrust those we love to Him.