I prayed last night after reading this verse for at least a hour over and over, help me see. I looked at a seminary instructions and classes for Bible study to learn on how one should study.
They say keep 3 things in mind who is talking, who are they talking to, and what are they addressing. Also what you think is the mean can not contradict the Bible because the Bible is the truth.
So when I read that verse all I see is what you see, is Peter trying to explain God doesn't perceive time as we do. If you read the entire chapter. But the years does help explain why the genealogy and years are so tedious in Genesis.
But this is all I can think, and forgive me Jesus if I'm wrong, If you take this idea and apply it across the Bible then it must be true everywhere is could be applied, Yes? Remember Jesus nor any other apostil ever said this. If Gods day is 1000 year and God said I will raise from the grave in 3 days , see my problem? or is that's why the second part of the verse is there?
I do not drink Alcohol, I do not do I llegally Drugs Nether. I do not Smoke Cig. I do not Gamble, All I want to do. Is Sing, Read The Bible. & Pray, & Meditate. & Praise God, In Heaven.
Snoring makes me feel tired the whole day and it causes hypertension so in order to work and take care of my 3 little children I need healing we are healed by His stripes so let us pray and rebuke that condition, command the fatigue to leave and tiredness to withdraw, join me in prayer for good health and full recovery in the Mighty Name of Jesus' Christ of Nazareth
Please pray for my son fighting drug addiction. I don't know how to help him other than pray. He says he wants to be sober. He goes to church, he is struggling. Pray gods will and protection over his heart health mind and body. Pray for me to have the right words to encourage him. I seem to say the wrong things when I am just trying to help.
I agree with Brother Chris, Peter is not giving specific number of years to calculate from;
If we look at verses 3-4 we see Peter is dealing with scoffers.
"Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation".
Verses 5,6 and 7 Peter reminds us that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth was destroyed by water and by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
Now we come to verse 8; "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
Verse 8 is giving us a picture of God's patience and longsuffering!
He's not setting there watching a clock drawing impatience.
It's explained in verse 9.
"Vs 9) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Verse 10 tells us when the Lord comes it will be no count down. He's coming suddenly!
Vs 10) But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night...
He mentions the longsuffering of our Lord again in verse 15.
"And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation;
one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
Is saying there is no clock that governs God's patience.
Hello David, you seem familiar- did we already discuss this topic some months or years before?
If I remember right you don't believe in free will? If so, my challenge to that is then did you write this or someone else? Do you think God made you- or forced you to (beyond your will). If there's no such thing as choice, then how do you explain Paul saying he was wrestling with his fleshly temptation of sin? It's possible you just don't like the word freewill but might believe you are the one who chooses things, like if you are given a menu at a restaurant and order- is that truly you ordering a burger or someone else.
"And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD." Joshua 24:15 KJV
"I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and of his priests and Levites, in my realm, which are minded of their own freewill to go up to Jerusalem, go with thee." Ezra 7:13 KJV
"Envy thou not the oppressor, and choose none of his ways." Proverbs 3:31 KJV
"Choose." The Bible does say we have the ability (freedom) to choose. How many verses can you provide that says we have no choice whatsoever? God bless.
I agree David0921 that "receiving or accepting the gift of salvation is not contributory towards our salvation". What I meant by my comment was that salvation is received with gratitude as a response to what God has done & given to us - and this response is not contributory to our salvation, but a result of it.
However, to the rest of your comment (& we've been down this path before), I don't see eye-to-eye with you on it. I do believe that the Lord knows who will come to Him & He, by His Spirit, will draw that soul. But that soul needs to hear the Gospel, the Spirit will energize him to understand, be convicted, & repent. These aspects are not contributory to one's salvation, but are a result of the Spirit's operation in the life. Without these, then one must come to believe that a person is first saved by God's Work alone, then he will be enlightened & Spirit-charged so that he will repent of his sins. To this I don't agree, as it's 'putting the cart before the horse'.
When I read several Scriptures that confirm this, including Acts 2:21, "whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" and Acts 2:38, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost", they speak of a soul who repents, calling upon the Lord to save him - and when he is saved/forgiven, the Holy Spirit is given (all simultaneous I'm sure). The sinner's act of repenting & calling upon the Lord for salvation, I don't see as contributing in any way to his salvation, but a response from the heart as he is under the Spirit's convicting Work.
Indeed bro Giannis. Leaving aside the matter of the water (whether it means from the Word or the flesh), I too sense the difficulty in understanding John 3:9,10 (..."Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?"). As a teacher of the Scriptures, Nicodemus should have picked up, even a little, on what Jesus was trying to convey to him. My thoughts though turn to Psalm 51:10, Ezekiel 11:19,20 & Ezekiel 36:25-27 as passages that should have alerted Nicodemus' mind to Jesus Who was pointing him to a coming spiritual re-birth. And maybe his questions would have centered around those passages & what Jesus was speaking about. Unfortunately, Nico's mind couldn't recall those prophecies. GBU.
I would not agree that our "receiving" or "accepting" the gift of salvation is contributory towards our salvation in any way whatsoever.
Whether or not an individual becomes "saved" is God's choice. Not our choice.
And if I am in anyway trusting that I am safe a secure BECAUSE I have taken some action in order to become saved or contribute to my salvation, I am not trusting in the gospel of the Bible.
And I don't think this is an insignificant point. It is fundamental to the Nature of the salvation program in which we are trusting.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. 9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? 10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? 11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
Christ is here teaching Nicodemus and us something about the nature of salvation. The "water" is the Word of God, ie the gospel. As we read in John 7:38 and Rom 10:17.
The "Spirit" is God Himself as He applies salvation to the life of someone whom He is saving by miraculously giving them a New Resurrected Soul in which they have become a "new creature in Christ" and will have an earnest ongoing desire to be obedient to the law of God, ie to not commit sin. John 3:9 and 2 Corinthians 5:17. This is becoming Born Again, ie becoming "saved".
19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you, 20 I desire to be present with you now, and to change my voice; for I stand in doubt of you. 21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? 22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. 24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. 25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. 27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. 28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. 29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. 30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. 31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
Gal 2:16,27
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
Rom 3:10-31.
Where is free will found in the Bible? Apart from God's salvation I see that I'm in bondage to sin and Satan.
oh almighty LORD, let this soul be miraculously healed by jesus christ's miracles, and let the problems they have been facing be washed away by the love of god and jesus christ. i pray that the surgery shall go well and hope that their soul will be blessed once more. amen.
Thanks bro S. Spencer. I can see from what you've shared, & bro Giannis has also added to, that if we look at Jesus' Words to Nicodemus as purely from a spiritual point of view/understanding, then of course "to be born of water" must have a spiritual connection & not physical. But of course, I don't read that verse in that manner, rather as Jesus' direct answer to Nicodemus' question, which can be paraphrased, 'Yes, there is a physical birth but there is also a spiritual birth/re-birth which I'm telling you about' - 'that a man has to be born, yes physically, but also spiritually to enter God's Kingdom'.
A couple of Bible commenters have even suggested that this being 'born of water' (or, born of the flesh, John 3:6) is a reference to the amniotic fluid which surrounds an embryo in the womb. That this fluid is the water (representing the physical nature of birth) that Jesus refers to, and then to the other birth, which Nico had no inkling about, which is the new birth, not physical but from God's Spirit. But to this meaning (i.e. amniotic fluid), I would be cautious about. Anyway, remaining open over such passages is the key to spiritual enlightenment & understanding. Blessings.
Thanks David0921 for your comment, to which I fully agree. And welcome back to this Discussion Page. When you quoted Ezekiel 36:24-32 and verse 25 states, "Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean...", I thought you intended to address the 'sprinkling of clean water' as reference to the Word, as some understand John 3:5 ('born of water'). However, you made no mention of this, so in respect of your comment, I agree, that salvation is all of God's Work - we contributing absolutely nothing to it, except to receive the Gift in brokenness & faith. GBU.
Hello SeanPaul. 2 Peter 3:8 can be understood in a couple of ways. One, similar to what Oseas has shared here, & the other (which I strongly lean to), is that Peter in this verse, is not giving us a specific number of years to calculate from; rather, that we are to understand that with God Who lives in eternity (i.e. outside of time), that even one of our earthly days, or a thousand, or even a million of our days, is to God as inconsequential & remains unaffected by them. God doesn't work based on our time scale but according to His Plan & Will for things to happen; and His Will is not governed by our clock. However, where certain days are given to us (e.g. Daniel 12:10-12, of the time of the Great Tribulation), then we are obliged to use those numbers to learn from. So I see a difference in how we are to read such Scriptures.
This is how I understand it. Jesus says to Nicodemus that if one is not born again he can not see the Kingdom of God. So Nicodemus understands that Jesus is talking about a physical birth and asks Him how this can be done, enter his mother's womb and be born again? In his mind Jesus is talking about a physical birth. Then Jesus answers him and explains that he is talking about a spiritual birth. So these "water and Spirit" are the spiritual birth. Next Jesus talks to Nicodemus about salvation, verses 11-21. eg. "14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.". So Jesus talks to Nicodemus about having faith in Him in order to enter the kingdom of God. Faith is something that occurs when one hears the gospel and accepts it. That is why I don't take that water as the physical birth. In any case it can not be, in my opinion, the water of baptism. But what I don't understand is why Jesus is expecting Nicodemus to know these things as a master of Israel. How could Nicodemus knew about these? And from verse 11, I understand that Nicodemus had a doubt on what Jesus said.
I prayed last night after reading this verse for at least a hour over and over, help me see. I looked at a seminary instructions and classes for Bible study to learn on how one should study.
They say keep 3 things in mind who is talking, who are they talking to, and what are they addressing. Also what you think is the mean can not contradict the Bible because the Bible is the truth.
So when I read that verse all I see is what you see, is Peter trying to explain God doesn't perceive time as we do. If you read the entire chapter. But the years does help explain why the genealogy and years are so tedious in Genesis.
But this is all I can think, and forgive me Jesus if I'm wrong, If you take this idea and apply it across the Bible then it must be true everywhere is could be applied, Yes? Remember Jesus nor any other apostil ever said this. If Gods day is 1000 year and God said I will raise from the grave in 3 days , see my problem? or is that's why the second part of the verse is there?
2 Peter 3:8
I agree with Brother Chris, Peter is not giving specific number of years to calculate from;
If we look at verses 3-4 we see Peter is dealing with scoffers.
"Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation".
Verses 5,6 and 7 Peter reminds us that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth was destroyed by water and by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
Now we come to verse 8; "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
Verse 8 is giving us a picture of God's patience and longsuffering!
He's not setting there watching a clock drawing impatience.
It's explained in verse 9.
"Vs 9) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Verse 10 tells us when the Lord comes it will be no count down. He's coming suddenly!
Vs 10) But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night...
He mentions the longsuffering of our Lord again in verse 15.
"And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation;
one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
Is saying there is no clock that governs God's patience.
God bless.
Thanks Oseas.
God bless you.
I've seen great commentary on both sides of this topic.
Either way we're in Good company.
God bless.
If I remember right you don't believe in free will? If so, my challenge to that is then did you write this or someone else? Do you think God made you- or forced you to (beyond your will). If there's no such thing as choice, then how do you explain Paul saying he was wrestling with his fleshly temptation of sin? It's possible you just don't like the word freewill but might believe you are the one who chooses things, like if you are given a menu at a restaurant and order- is that truly you ordering a burger or someone else.
"And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD." Joshua 24:15 KJV
"I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and of his priests and Levites, in my realm, which are minded of their own freewill to go up to Jerusalem, go with thee." Ezra 7:13 KJV
"Envy thou not the oppressor, and choose none of his ways." Proverbs 3:31 KJV
"Choose." The Bible does say we have the ability (freedom) to choose. How many verses can you provide that says we have no choice whatsoever? God bless.
However, to the rest of your comment (& we've been down this path before), I don't see eye-to-eye with you on it. I do believe that the Lord knows who will come to Him & He, by His Spirit, will draw that soul. But that soul needs to hear the Gospel, the Spirit will energize him to understand, be convicted, & repent. These aspects are not contributory to one's salvation, but are a result of the Spirit's operation in the life. Without these, then one must come to believe that a person is first saved by God's Work alone, then he will be enlightened & Spirit-charged so that he will repent of his sins. To this I don't agree, as it's 'putting the cart before the horse'.
When I read several Scriptures that confirm this, including Acts 2:21, "whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" and Acts 2:38, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost", they speak of a soul who repents, calling upon the Lord to save him - and when he is saved/forgiven, the Holy Spirit is given (all simultaneous I'm sure). The sinner's act of repenting & calling upon the Lord for salvation, I don't see as contributing in any way to his salvation, but a response from the heart as he is under the Spirit's convicting Work.
I would not agree that our "receiving" or "accepting" the gift of salvation is contributory towards our salvation in any way whatsoever.
Whether or not an individual becomes "saved" is God's choice. Not our choice.
And if I am in anyway trusting that I am safe a secure BECAUSE I have taken some action in order to become saved or contribute to my salvation, I am not trusting in the gospel of the Bible.
And I don't think this is an insignificant point. It is fundamental to the Nature of the salvation program in which we are trusting.
And I agree absolutely that the "sprinkling of clean water" in Exekiel 36:25 is indeed a reference to the Word of God, the Gospel.
John3:3-12
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. 9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? 10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? 11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
Christ is here teaching Nicodemus and us something about the nature of salvation. The "water" is the Word of God, ie the gospel. As we read in John 7:38 and Rom 10:17.
The "Spirit" is God Himself as He applies salvation to the life of someone whom He is saving by miraculously giving them a New Resurrected Soul in which they have become a "new creature in Christ" and will have an earnest ongoing desire to be obedient to the law of God, ie to not commit sin. John 3:9 and 2 Corinthians 5:17. This is becoming Born Again, ie becoming "saved".
This is what God is teaching in Ezekiel 36:24-31
I would askHow do you understand these verses?
Gal 4:19-31
19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you, 20 I desire to be present with you now, and to change my voice; for I stand in doubt of you. 21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? 22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. 24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. 25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. 27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. 28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. 29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. 30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. 31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
Gal 2:16,27
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
Rom 3:10-31.
Where is free will found in the Bible? Apart from God's salvation I see that I'm in bondage to sin and Satan.
I think it is you are using only half the verse. Peter apostle was/is not saying what you have posted.
Blessings
God bless you Mary.
Amen
Heavenly Father, we believe in Your healing power. Thank you for healing Cody.
In the Mighty Name of Jesus Christ.
Amen
A couple of Bible commenters have even suggested that this being 'born of water' (or, born of the flesh, John 3:6) is a reference to the amniotic fluid which surrounds an embryo in the womb. That this fluid is the water (representing the physical nature of birth) that Jesus refers to, and then to the other birth, which Nico had no inkling about, which is the new birth, not physical but from God's Spirit. But to this meaning (i.e. amniotic fluid), I would be cautious about. Anyway, remaining open over such passages is the key to spiritual enlightenment & understanding. Blessings.
That is the way I have it as well.
God bless.
This is how I understand it. Jesus says to Nicodemus that if one is not born again he can not see the Kingdom of God. So Nicodemus understands that Jesus is talking about a physical birth and asks Him how this can be done, enter his mother's womb and be born again? In his mind Jesus is talking about a physical birth. Then Jesus answers him and explains that he is talking about a spiritual birth. So these "water and Spirit" are the spiritual birth. Next Jesus talks to Nicodemus about salvation, verses 11-21. eg. "14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.". So Jesus talks to Nicodemus about having faith in Him in order to enter the kingdom of God. Faith is something that occurs when one hears the gospel and accepts it. That is why I don't take that water as the physical birth. In any case it can not be, in my opinion, the water of baptism. But what I don't understand is why Jesus is expecting Nicodemus to know these things as a master of Israel. How could Nicodemus knew about these? And from verse 11, I understand that Nicodemus had a doubt on what Jesus said.
I have a question on the verse you quoted to build your time line. ( 2 Peter 3:8)
You do know you are using only half the verse to determine your time line right?
Here is what the verse says;
"But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, AND A THOUSAND YEARS AS ONE DAY.
How do you determine what half of that verse to use?
Blessings