I never said that a saved individual does not sin.
1 John 3:7-9
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 John3:9 is referring to being Born Again in our soul existence when God miraculously applies salvation to our life.
As is Ezekiel 36:24-27
24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A NEW HEART also will I give you, and a NEW SPIRIT will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
But that new soul resides in a body that still lusts after sin. And we will never be sinless in our whole personality until we receive our resurrected spiritual body on the Last Day. 1 Corinthians 15
Romans 7:21-25
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
O no,Spencer,again,to clarify you and all readers here,I did not use any formula,it is you are using it,I only made pure description of a biblical Chronology in the time line posted of a very known biblical period of around 6000 years,i.e. the biblical Chronology from Adam until this current Day, and it has nothing to do with any kind of formula.
You are inventing and insinuating one pseudo-formula that has nothing to do with the Word of GOD,I unknow your peculiar formula according your spirit.For what man knoweth the things of a man,save the spirit of man which is in him?even so the things of GOD knoweth no man,but the Spirit of GOD,understand?1Co.2:11.And as you said,you have payed any attention in the time line posted,and invented and insinuated one pseudo-formula that has nothing to do with the Word of GOD.
That said,regarding your question,as all can see you unfortunately developed first a false premise based in an invention of a pseudo formula that does not exist in the Biblical Chronology, and tempt me to answer a nonsense question from you; a false premise results in a false conclusion,and this is EXACTLY what you have described in sequence of your narrative and questions made after your first question.
What matters and prevails is the Truth,the Word of GOD is the Truth,the Word is GOD,GOD Himself,self-executing,understand?
GOD went in the Garden of Eden at the turn of a Day,it was in the end of a millennium,and beginning of another millennium. JESUS in His parable speaks that at midnight a cry made is heard,well, midnight refers to the turn of a new Day,i.e.from the sixth to the seventh Day,the LORD's Day.In my understand what we MUST crie is that"the bridegroom cometh;He is arriving,go ye out to meet Him.Six complete Days or six complete millenniums have already passed since Adam.
In my vision,we are alreading living in the turn from the sixth to the seventh Day,still in the beginning of it.For the Devil's world, there will be ONLY SEVERE punishments
Thanks again David0921. To your first two paragraphs, I find complete agreement: that God alone grants salvation to man, for man in his filthy sinful state could never contribute anything to assist in that glorious Plan of God.
But to your third paragraph. From what I gather, you're stating that God did not know (nor did He try to know) who would or would not respond to the Gospel. But He chose to save some regardless. So, would I be correct in understanding that God just picked out certain ones to save & the rest of mankind He rejected? Two areas of concern for me are: I don't believe that anything is outside the Knowledge of God - He knows all - He sees all. If knowing who would respond to Him is outside that knowledge, then you might find it very hard to support that belief, if you believe that God has, or has chosen to have, limited knowledge.
Secondly, Scriptures as John 3:16 ('God so loved the Worldthat WHOSOEVER believeth in Him'), and 2 Peter 3:9 ('The Lordis longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that ANY should perish'), show to me that all sinners, I repeat, ALL sinners are loved by God & the merits of His Son's death availed to all. I simply can't read it as 'God so loved the ones He picked out for salvation, that even though He didn't want any to perish, He, by His selection, would preclude some (or, many) to receive it'. This would also alleviate the necessity to preach the Gospel, even taking it to far off lands, for why should it be done, if God had already picked out His chosen ones & they will be saved regardless of them hearing and responding to the Gospel?
If we are at odds over these few matters, then even the matter of 'salvation being wholly of God alone' doesn't even arise at this stage. Maybe, you could show me what Scriptures support God not having foreknowledge of all things, and also that He selects some, refusing others for His salvation.
Just to reply briefly (since I've written about this to you just now), you cannot use 2 Peter 3:8 to conduct or investigate a timeline as you have shown. It simply doesn't apply. 2 Peter 3:8 is simply an expression used there to demonstrate God's patience & that He is not bound by a clock.
Hi again SeanPaul. Bro S. Spencer has given you a much more detailed understanding of 2 Peter 3:8 than I gave, as he correctly brought in the other Scriptures that point to this verse, giving it meaning, i.e. of the patience & longsuffering of God towards sinful men and the suddenness of God's final actions against evil.
But I'm glad that you have prayed & carefully considered this important verse & surrounding verses and also noting those three points you learned when looking at Scripture. I would also add, that whenever we read Scripture, we must also ask 'why, when, where, & how' as well; we may not always get the answers we seek from the Word, but we need to search as far as we are able. If we don't, then we can easily be misled into all sorts of interpretations, whether from our overactive minds or supposedly, revelations from the Spirit. The Bible is given to us for our learning & when we correctly read what is given, the Spirit of God will interpret it for our understanding & application to our lives.
And of course, we must be able to discern what are expressions in English & what are factual details. And as S. Spencer has stated, if we take 2 Peter 3:8 as a literal fact, then when we try to apply it, those numbers will fail & make the verse & the way we try to use it, meaningless. So, Jesus' example in Matthew 12:40 of His burial for three days & three nights must be taken as literal & not some Hebraic expression, since that's what took place after His crucifixion. But if all references to 'God's Day being a thousand years & a thousand years as one day' is taken as literal, then it would make the Scriptures pertaining to 'one or a thousand' altogether misleading & erroneous, we then forcing them to fit our beliefs.
John 6:37 states "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
THE INVITATION IS TO THE WHOLE WORLD!
John 1:7-9. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that ALL MEN through him might believe.
He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
That was the true Light, WHICH LIGHTEST EVERY MAN THAT COMETH INTO THE WORLD.
1 John 2:2 "And he is the propitiation for our sins: (AND NOT FOR OURS ONLY)...BUT ALSO FOR THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD.
( John specifically included the Greek word holou, which means "whole, entire, all, complete.")
Revelation 22:17. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And LET HIM THAT IS A THIRST COME. And WHOSOEVER will, let him take the water of life freely.
God loves each and every person ( John 3:16)
an atonement limited by God as a denial of the omnibenevolence of God.
Out of love God sent Christ to atone for the whole world. But nit everyone will respond.
Hi David, it sounds like you believe you're on some kind of autopilot then after becoming a Christian, so you don't believe you have freewill and maybe assume everything you do is perfect?
>Noticed that every single action is GOD's. action, not OUR action.
I think you're cherrypicking a verse like 1 John 3:9 and making a dogma over it while disregarding the context. If you look at the verses before it, it clearly says believers sin. It's just that believers' sins are forgiven, if you abide in Christ.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
Even believers need to purify themselves. The book is talking to Christians, as the verse before indicates.
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
God will take away (forgive) our sin if we abide in Jesus Christ. It doesn't say that those who don't believe or don't abide in Jesus are forgiven. It doesn't say Christians are physically forced to not sin, and have no freewill to sin. No where in the Bible does it say that. The metaphor is from God's perspective, just like Hebrews 8:12 doesn't mean God has a memory problem. And just like drinking the blood of Christ doesn't literally mean his blood and those who eat bread aren't literally eating his body. And it doesn't say that a person loses their freewill or ability to even conduct themselves and become marionettes.
A few verses later it offers this strong warning (still addressed to Christians)
v8: He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
So in the same chapter it says the same Christian can sin, just not to Jesus (if abiding), because of grace.
Now, as for the things in your post, yes, I do remember the unprofitable servant and have read Luke Chapter 17. That is a great section of scripture as I'm sure you would agree. You mention that "We cannot overcome our sinful nature any other way other than by the way God has prepared for us, obedience."
God commands us to be obedient to Him. But until the day we die, or the Lord comes for us first, we will always have a sinful nature because of the flesh. We cannot overcome that. I made mention that we need to be able to differentiate between the flesh and the Spirit of God that lives in us. Our flesh will never submit to the Lord or be obedient to Him.
I guess the whole point I am trying to make is that we in our own human effort can do nothing that is pleasing to the Lord. I hear people say that they are doing God's work for Him, or they are doing this or that for the Lord. I don't agree with any of that.
Again, it comes down to understanding the difference between the flesh and the Spirit. The flesh cannot do anything pleasing to God. But there are many out there that are trying very hard in their own human efforts to do the things that are pleasing to God.
I stopped trying several years ago once I realized that God wasn't going to bless anything I did in my own effort. The only thing we can do that is pleasing to Him is to submit to the persuasion of His Spirit working in our lives. But it's His work, not ours. I think we spend too much time trying to please Him by our human effort. But many still keep on trying!
Again, I do thank you for taking the time to read my 3-part message about striving or attaining "sinless perfection." You mention that you agree with everything I said except the very last part. I am assuming it is the part where I said, "we need to stop trying."
As I've read through what you are disagreeing with, I just would like to say that those were not my words. I am not sure what you meant by saying "we must not stop trying to do those things that we know are acceptable to God and to avoid doing those things that we know are not pleasing to Him," but those were not my words.
Please correct me if I am wrong, but I am assuming you are disagreeing with my last statement where I said that "we cannot reach a state of sinless perfection, so we need to quit trying." I believe this statement fits perfectly well with everything I said in my 3-part post that you agreed with. What am I missing?
As for me saying that we need to stop trying, please allow me to explain. My entire post was about being completely sin free or reaching a state of sinless perfection. I mentioned that we will only be in this state when we receive our glorified bodies. Definitely no sooner than that, and especially not in this life while we are living in this fleshly body that is corrupt. You said that you agreed with that, so what I don't understand is why you would disagree with my statement that we need to stop trying?
Sorry, but no I don't understand and haven't payed any attention to your time line,
Just the formula you use.
I've originally seen a post from you maybe a few months back where you mentioned 2 Peter 3:8 as your basis for your "one day is with the Lord as a thousand years formula.
I started to comment then but I didn't.
I'm just asking "Why are you only using half the verse?
If you decide not to answer that that's fine.
But, can you atleast tell me what does the second half of the verse mean? It can't be excused. It's not there for nothing. It's scripture and on the same verse.
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and ( A THOUSAND YEARS AS ONE DAY.)
Does that mean God started his creation 7 days ago?
I know that sounds silly but it's reasonable according to the way you calculate.
Or, When using your interpretation of 2 Peter the way you do is it reasonable to say When God says "And the evening and the morning were the first day" in Genesis 1:5. That also is a thousand years with the evening lasting 500 years and the day lasting 500 years?
Oseas you and I know we are not going to come to an agreement so let's agree to disagree.
I have prayer request my father in heaven, I ask for your forgiveness for my trespasses and the trespasses of those who trespassed against me and my family, I am grateful for everything you have done for me and for keeping me and my family safe and protected. Please father grant my husband freedom from the chains of consequence he has learned his lesson , I promise you father , you put your son in my hands to be his wife to be his protector and caregiver yes I understand my role I am making you a promise today that if you send your MIGHTY angel GABRIEL or also the strongest one that we call SERAFIM just for today to go watch over my Adam as he sleep and protect him through all the bad and darkness of the night like the candle light please FATHER It would fill me with joy please protect my ADAM my husband and your son my word is kept from my side and I know your WORD is unbroken ,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I am forever in Debt of you my father when you're ready for my services GOD your servant is ready to be of service! AMEN.
Your post on Psalms 90:4 deserved the best of my attention.
O no, Spencer, Moses was born around 2500 years after Adam, and in his PRAYER Moses was remembering the wonderful revelations GOD had given to him about His works of the evening and morning of each Day of a thousand years past not only until his current time, but also on the future Days, until our current time, acording the Plan of GOD described in Genesis 1, understand?
O yes, Spencer, you say GOD is from everlasting to everlasting as is written, it is true, however, if we receive the witness of men, the witness of GOD is greater, understand? Well, the Word of GOD, is from everlasting to everlasting, the Word is the everlasting GOD, GOD Himself, Self-Executing, so the things GOD made from six thousand of years ago, or ten thousand, or billions of years ago, for my GOD they are of today, understand? for my GOD and Father there is not time or inexists time, He is Omnipresent, understand?
Regarding Psalm 90:2 and the content of all the rest of your posted commentary, you are saying surreptitiously as if I were interpreting the Scriptures in accordance with your imaginations written in your post, which is not true. Could you tell me which point in the timeline posted by me does not match the Scriptures?
By the way, I would ask: Why does the Jewish calendar have a difference of exactly 240 years in relation to the Christian calendar?
After reading this chapter a number of times it was finally revealed to me what God wanting me to see in this chapter that I hadn't seen before. When I looked at all who were mentioned here I understood that all of them were sinners. I was so shocked, that those who God loved dearly were place here. It was at this point I knew that God not only loved them, but myself as well. We must face the fact all of us fall short of the glory of God. It's only in His righteousness and grace that we find ourselves in his presence.
Yes Adam, God commands us to "choose", to believe, to repent, to obey, to love, etc. The whole Bible is God's Law Book for mankind. But we have to read the verses you quote in the light of what God declares about the condition of mankind. And that is that all of mankind (Adam and Eve excepted before they sinned) WILL NOT and CANNOT "choose" to obey, to repent, to love, i.e. to keep the Law of God in a way that is pleasing to God. Read Romans 3:10-18 and other verses teaching this. And that we are Spiritually "Dead in Trespasses and sins". And that God must raise us from Spiritual Death to Spiritual Life. Eph 2:1.
Furthermore we know from the Bible that the penalty for even the slightest transgression of the Law of God is eternal Death. And in order for anyone to be saved, Christ, must have paid the full penalty required by the Law. And if that penalty has been fully paid, we no longer stand guilty before the Law of God and the Law cannot condem us. These are the Elect of God. We have no idea who these are. Only God knows. God's election program is God's business, not our business. But we know that God has obligated Himself to save everyone for whose sins He paid the full penalty.
But salvation does not end there. When God applies His salvation to one of His elect, He gives them a New Resurrected Soul, i.e. a New Heart in which, in itself, cannot sin. 1 John 3:9. And we become a New Creature in Christ 2 Corinthians 5:17. But we still have a body that has not yet been saved and that still lusts after sin. And though, once saved, we will have an earnest and ongoing desire to repent, to obey, to love God WITH OUR WHOLE HEART, we can, if we take our eyes off of Christ, fall into even grevious sin, as did David. But what was David's reaction when confronted with his sin? Read Psalm 51. So if we have become saved sin will become increasingly anathema to us. And we will long for the Day when God compleates our salvation by giving us our New Resurrected Spiritual Body.
Jesus thank you for the growing relationship and faith I have with you thank you for your spirit with me that fills me love hope and healing. Jesus please hear the prayers of our family in need of your love and healing. Please rescue those who are addicted to drugs and alcohol with your love that saved me and gave me new life with you and love for my self. Please help me to connect with the spouse you have to share my new life together. Please guide me in finding a safe clean affordable apartment. Jesus thank you for the veterans home and the many blessings that I am so greatfull for.
Psalms 90:4 "For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.
OSeas that is just saying God is not bound by times. He's from everlasting to everlasting!
Look at the previous verses to get the context.
Psalms 90:2 "Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.
And again if Peter is speaking of how we can calculate a day in 2 Peter 3:8 then what does a "thousand years as one day". mean?
Oseas you have to factor that into your equation if it's a way to count down prophecy.
You can't just ignore the second half of this verse.
If it's a formula for time then it brings you a thousand years forward then a thousand years back which is no time at all.
Thank you again for your response. I have appreciated our back and forth on this sublect and I don't mind at all rehashing this topic that we have discussed in the past. Because in my view, while every teaching from the Bible is important since we are dealing with the Word of God, Himself, there is no more important or critical teaching than the Nature of Salvation itself. And if we are trusting in a salvation that is not the salvation of the Bible we are trusting in a lie, in escense a false gospel. That is the snare that certainly National Isreal fell into. And I believe, that the local churches and congregations, to one degree or another, have also fallen into the same snare in teaching a gospel where man himself, and not God ALONE, is ultimately in control of their salvation.
I think that to understand the true Nature of Salvation, one must understand the true nature of mankind apart from God's mercy in salvation. The Bible, I believe, is crystal clear in this regard. We read in Romans 3:10-18 and many other passages on the Bible the terible spititual condition of each and every one of us apart from salvation. We are Spiritually Dead and it is God that must make us Spiriyually alive " Eph 2:1. Just as Jesus raised Lazarus from physical Death and Lazarus played no part in that whatsoever; God must raise us from Spiritual Death to Spiritual Life and we play no part in that whatsoever.
God did not look down the corridors of time before He created the world and saw that some would respond to the gospel and some would not. What He saw is the NO ONE would respond. But despite that dismal fact, God in His Mercy chose to save some. God does not tell us how He made that choice. But He did make it crystal clear that it was not because He saw that some were more likely to respond than others or that there was anything inherent in any one of us deserving of salvation. By nature we are all in rebelion against God and will never come to Him.
No, Peter Apostle was not thinking what you are thinking Peter was thinking. Oh no, absolutely. Your thinking is according to Chris. But in fact, Peter apostle was mentioning what he knew about GOD's time, and it is written in the Psalm 90:4, so Peter having the same Spirit that was is Moses, he confirmed in his universal epistle what Moses wrote in his prayer to the Lord GOD in the Psalms 90.
By the way, Moses in his prayer said too: -->(90:11 Who knoweth the power of thine anger? even according to thy fear, so is thy wrath. 12 So TEACH us to number our days, that we may apply our hearts unto wisdom.
Just to clarify, for your better understanding, broter SeanPaul around 21 hours ago(now page 2),he asked me saying'people mention GOD'S days as being 1 day=1000 of our years.Is this in the Bible?...where to find this? Please help'.
Then I quoted exactly as SeanPaul wrote trayng to help him. It's it.
But you, in your discernment, interpreted I was using Peter 3:8 to build the time line. In fact, I was only informing SeanPaul(in parentheses) were is written 'GOD'S days as being 1 day = 1000'. But I didn't just stop there, understand? I thought that through the time line he would advance more deeply biblically.
I prayed last night after reading this verse for at least a hour over and over, help me see. I looked at a seminary instructions and classes for Bible study to learn on how one should study.
They say keep 3 things in mind who is talking, who are they talking to, and what are they addressing. Also what you think is the mean can not contradict the Bible because the Bible is the truth.
So when I read that verse all I see is what you see, is Peter trying to explain God doesn't perceive time as we do. If you read the entire chapter. But the years does help explain why the genealogy and years are so tedious in Genesis.
But this is all I can think, and forgive me Jesus if I'm wrong, If you take this idea and apply it across the Bible then it must be true everywhere is could be applied, Yes? Remember Jesus nor any other apostil ever said this. If Gods day is 1000 year and God said I will raise from the grave in 3 days , see my problem? or is that's why the second part of the verse is there?
I do not drink Alcohol, I do not do I llegally Drugs Nether. I do not Smoke Cig. I do not Gamble, All I want to do. Is Sing, Read The Bible. & Pray, & Meditate. & Praise God, In Heaven.
Snoring makes me feel tired the whole day and it causes hypertension so in order to work and take care of my 3 little children I need healing we are healed by His stripes so let us pray and rebuke that condition, command the fatigue to leave and tiredness to withdraw, join me in prayer for good health and full recovery in the Mighty Name of Jesus' Christ of Nazareth
Please pray for my son fighting drug addiction. I don't know how to help him other than pray. He says he wants to be sober. He goes to church, he is struggling. Pray gods will and protection over his heart health mind and body. Pray for me to have the right words to encourage him. I seem to say the wrong things when I am just trying to help.
I agree with Brother Chris, Peter is not giving specific number of years to calculate from;
If we look at verses 3-4 we see Peter is dealing with scoffers.
"Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation".
Verses 5,6 and 7 Peter reminds us that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth was destroyed by water and by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
Now we come to verse 8; "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
Verse 8 is giving us a picture of God's patience and longsuffering!
He's not setting there watching a clock drawing impatience.
It's explained in verse 9.
"Vs 9) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Verse 10 tells us when the Lord comes it will be no count down. He's coming suddenly!
Vs 10) But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night...
He mentions the longsuffering of our Lord again in verse 15.
"And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation;
one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
Is saying there is no clock that governs God's patience.
I never said that a saved individual does not sin.
1 John 3:7-9
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 John3:9 is referring to being Born Again in our soul existence when God miraculously applies salvation to our life.
As is Ezekiel 36:24-27
24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A NEW HEART also will I give you, and a NEW SPIRIT will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
But that new soul resides in a body that still lusts after sin. And we will never be sinless in our whole personality until we receive our resurrected spiritual body on the Last Day. 1 Corinthians 15
Romans 7:21-25
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
But thank you for responding.
You are inventing and insinuating one pseudo-formula that has nothing to do with the Word of GOD,I unknow your peculiar formula according your spirit.For what man knoweth the things of a man,save the spirit of man which is in him?even so the things of GOD knoweth no man,but the Spirit of GOD,understand?1Co.2:11.And as you said,you have payed any attention in the time line posted,and invented and insinuated one pseudo-formula that has nothing to do with the Word of GOD.
That said,regarding your question,as all can see you unfortunately developed first a false premise based in an invention of a pseudo formula that does not exist in the Biblical Chronology, and tempt me to answer a nonsense question from you; a false premise results in a false conclusion,and this is EXACTLY what you have described in sequence of your narrative and questions made after your first question.
What matters and prevails is the Truth,the Word of GOD is the Truth,the Word is GOD,GOD Himself,self-executing,understand?
GOD went in the Garden of Eden at the turn of a Day,it was in the end of a millennium,and beginning of another millennium. JESUS in His parable speaks that at midnight a cry made is heard,well, midnight refers to the turn of a new Day,i.e.from the sixth to the seventh Day,the LORD's Day.In my understand what we MUST crie is that"the bridegroom cometh;He is arriving,go ye out to meet Him.Six complete Days or six complete millenniums have already passed since Adam.
In my vision,we are alreading living in the turn from the sixth to the seventh Day,still in the beginning of it.For the Devil's world, there will be ONLY SEVERE punishments
But to your third paragraph. From what I gather, you're stating that God did not know (nor did He try to know) who would or would not respond to the Gospel. But He chose to save some regardless. So, would I be correct in understanding that God just picked out certain ones to save & the rest of mankind He rejected? Two areas of concern for me are: I don't believe that anything is outside the Knowledge of God - He knows all - He sees all. If knowing who would respond to Him is outside that knowledge, then you might find it very hard to support that belief, if you believe that God has, or has chosen to have, limited knowledge.
Secondly, Scriptures as John 3:16 ('God so loved the Worldthat WHOSOEVER believeth in Him'), and 2 Peter 3:9 ('The Lordis longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that ANY should perish'), show to me that all sinners, I repeat, ALL sinners are loved by God & the merits of His Son's death availed to all. I simply can't read it as 'God so loved the ones He picked out for salvation, that even though He didn't want any to perish, He, by His selection, would preclude some (or, many) to receive it'. This would also alleviate the necessity to preach the Gospel, even taking it to far off lands, for why should it be done, if God had already picked out His chosen ones & they will be saved regardless of them hearing and responding to the Gospel?
If we are at odds over these few matters, then even the matter of 'salvation being wholly of God alone' doesn't even arise at this stage. Maybe, you could show me what Scriptures support God not having foreknowledge of all things, and also that He selects some, refusing others for His salvation.
But I'm glad that you have prayed & carefully considered this important verse & surrounding verses and also noting those three points you learned when looking at Scripture. I would also add, that whenever we read Scripture, we must also ask 'why, when, where, & how' as well; we may not always get the answers we seek from the Word, but we need to search as far as we are able. If we don't, then we can easily be misled into all sorts of interpretations, whether from our overactive minds or supposedly, revelations from the Spirit. The Bible is given to us for our learning & when we correctly read what is given, the Spirit of God will interpret it for our understanding & application to our lives.
And of course, we must be able to discern what are expressions in English & what are factual details. And as S. Spencer has stated, if we take 2 Peter 3:8 as a literal fact, then when we try to apply it, those numbers will fail & make the verse & the way we try to use it, meaningless. So, Jesus' example in Matthew 12:40 of His burial for three days & three nights must be taken as literal & not some Hebraic expression, since that's what took place after His crucifixion. But if all references to 'God's Day being a thousand years & a thousand years as one day' is taken as literal, then it would make the Scriptures pertaining to 'one or a thousand' altogether misleading & erroneous, we then forcing them to fit our beliefs.
THE INVITATION IS TO THE WHOLE WORLD!
John 1:7-9. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that ALL MEN through him might believe.
He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
That was the true Light, WHICH LIGHTEST EVERY MAN THAT COMETH INTO THE WORLD.
1 John 2:2 "And he is the propitiation for our sins: (AND NOT FOR OURS ONLY)...BUT ALSO FOR THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD.
( John specifically included the Greek word holou, which means "whole, entire, all, complete.")
Revelation 22:17. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And LET HIM THAT IS A THIRST COME. And WHOSOEVER will, let him take the water of life freely.
God loves each and every person ( John 3:16)
an atonement limited by God as a denial of the omnibenevolence of God.
Out of love God sent Christ to atone for the whole world. But nit everyone will respond.
God bless.
>Noticed that every single action is GOD's. action, not OUR action.
I think you're cherrypicking a verse like 1 John 3:9 and making a dogma over it while disregarding the context. If you look at the verses before it, it clearly says believers sin. It's just that believers' sins are forgiven, if you abide in Christ.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
Even believers need to purify themselves. The book is talking to Christians, as the verse before indicates.
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
God will take away (forgive) our sin if we abide in Jesus Christ. It doesn't say that those who don't believe or don't abide in Jesus are forgiven. It doesn't say Christians are physically forced to not sin, and have no freewill to sin. No where in the Bible does it say that. The metaphor is from God's perspective, just like Hebrews 8:12 doesn't mean God has a memory problem. And just like drinking the blood of Christ doesn't literally mean his blood and those who eat bread aren't literally eating his body. And it doesn't say that a person loses their freewill or ability to even conduct themselves and become marionettes.
A few verses later it offers this strong warning (still addressed to Christians)
v8: He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
So in the same chapter it says the same Christian can sin, just not to Jesus (if abiding), because of grace.
(Part 2):
Now, as for the things in your post, yes, I do remember the unprofitable servant and have read Luke Chapter 17. That is a great section of scripture as I'm sure you would agree. You mention that "We cannot overcome our sinful nature any other way other than by the way God has prepared for us, obedience."
God commands us to be obedient to Him. But until the day we die, or the Lord comes for us first, we will always have a sinful nature because of the flesh. We cannot overcome that. I made mention that we need to be able to differentiate between the flesh and the Spirit of God that lives in us. Our flesh will never submit to the Lord or be obedient to Him.
I guess the whole point I am trying to make is that we in our own human effort can do nothing that is pleasing to the Lord. I hear people say that they are doing God's work for Him, or they are doing this or that for the Lord. I don't agree with any of that.
Again, it comes down to understanding the difference between the flesh and the Spirit. The flesh cannot do anything pleasing to God. But there are many out there that are trying very hard in their own human efforts to do the things that are pleasing to God.
I stopped trying several years ago once I realized that God wasn't going to bless anything I did in my own effort. The only thing we can do that is pleasing to Him is to submit to the persuasion of His Spirit working in our lives. But it's His work, not ours. I think we spend too much time trying to please Him by our human effort. But many still keep on trying!
Again, I do thank you for taking the time to read my 3-part message about striving or attaining "sinless perfection." You mention that you agree with everything I said except the very last part. I am assuming it is the part where I said, "we need to stop trying."
As I've read through what you are disagreeing with, I just would like to say that those were not my words. I am not sure what you meant by saying "we must not stop trying to do those things that we know are acceptable to God and to avoid doing those things that we know are not pleasing to Him," but those were not my words.
Please correct me if I am wrong, but I am assuming you are disagreeing with my last statement where I said that "we cannot reach a state of sinless perfection, so we need to quit trying." I believe this statement fits perfectly well with everything I said in my 3-part post that you agreed with. What am I missing?
As for me saying that we need to stop trying, please allow me to explain. My entire post was about being completely sin free or reaching a state of sinless perfection. I mentioned that we will only be in this state when we receive our glorified bodies. Definitely no sooner than that, and especially not in this life while we are living in this fleshly body that is corrupt. You said that you agreed with that, so what I don't understand is why you would disagree with my statement that we need to stop trying?
I need to send a part 2...
Thanks again for your replies.
Sorry, but no I don't understand and haven't payed any attention to your time line,
Just the formula you use.
I've originally seen a post from you maybe a few months back where you mentioned 2 Peter 3:8 as your basis for your "one day is with the Lord as a thousand years formula.
I started to comment then but I didn't.
I'm just asking "Why are you only using half the verse?
If you decide not to answer that that's fine.
But, can you atleast tell me what does the second half of the verse mean? It can't be excused. It's not there for nothing. It's scripture and on the same verse.
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and ( A THOUSAND YEARS AS ONE DAY.)
Does that mean God started his creation 7 days ago?
I know that sounds silly but it's reasonable according to the way you calculate.
Or, When using your interpretation of 2 Peter the way you do is it reasonable to say When God says "And the evening and the morning were the first day" in Genesis 1:5. That also is a thousand years with the evening lasting 500 years and the day lasting 500 years?
Oseas you and I know we are not going to come to an agreement so let's agree to disagree.
God bless you.
Your post on Psalms 90:4 deserved the best of my attention.
O no, Spencer, Moses was born around 2500 years after Adam, and in his PRAYER Moses was remembering the wonderful revelations GOD had given to him about His works of the evening and morning of each Day of a thousand years past not only until his current time, but also on the future Days, until our current time, acording the Plan of GOD described in Genesis 1, understand?
O yes, Spencer, you say GOD is from everlasting to everlasting as is written, it is true, however, if we receive the witness of men, the witness of GOD is greater, understand? Well, the Word of GOD, is from everlasting to everlasting, the Word is the everlasting GOD, GOD Himself, Self-Executing, so the things GOD made from six thousand of years ago, or ten thousand, or billions of years ago, for my GOD they are of today, understand? for my GOD and Father there is not time or inexists time, He is Omnipresent, understand?
Regarding Psalm 90:2 and the content of all the rest of your posted commentary, you are saying surreptitiously as if I were interpreting the Scriptures in accordance with your imaginations written in your post, which is not true. Could you tell me which point in the timeline posted by me does not match the Scriptures?
By the way, I would ask: Why does the Jewish calendar have a difference of exactly 240 years in relation to the Christian calendar?
Furthermore we know from the Bible that the penalty for even the slightest transgression of the Law of God is eternal Death. And in order for anyone to be saved, Christ, must have paid the full penalty required by the Law. And if that penalty has been fully paid, we no longer stand guilty before the Law of God and the Law cannot condem us. These are the Elect of God. We have no idea who these are. Only God knows. God's election program is God's business, not our business. But we know that God has obligated Himself to save everyone for whose sins He paid the full penalty.
But salvation does not end there. When God applies His salvation to one of His elect, He gives them a New Resurrected Soul, i.e. a New Heart in which, in itself, cannot sin. 1 John 3:9. And we become a New Creature in Christ 2 Corinthians 5:17. But we still have a body that has not yet been saved and that still lusts after sin. And though, once saved, we will have an earnest and ongoing desire to repent, to obey, to love God WITH OUR WHOLE HEART, we can, if we take our eyes off of Christ, fall into even grevious sin, as did David. But what was David's reaction when confronted with his sin? Read Psalm 51. So if we have become saved sin will become increasingly anathema to us. And we will long for the Day when God compleates our salvation by giving us our New Resurrected Spiritual Body.
Psalms 90:4 "For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.
OSeas that is just saying God is not bound by times. He's from everlasting to everlasting!
Look at the previous verses to get the context.
Psalms 90:2 "Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.
And again if Peter is speaking of how we can calculate a day in 2 Peter 3:8 then what does a "thousand years as one day". mean?
Oseas you have to factor that into your equation if it's a way to count down prophecy.
You can't just ignore the second half of this verse.
If it's a formula for time then it brings you a thousand years forward then a thousand years back which is no time at all.
I would re-examine this Oseas.
God bless.
Thank you again for your response. I have appreciated our back and forth on this sublect and I don't mind at all rehashing this topic that we have discussed in the past. Because in my view, while every teaching from the Bible is important since we are dealing with the Word of God, Himself, there is no more important or critical teaching than the Nature of Salvation itself. And if we are trusting in a salvation that is not the salvation of the Bible we are trusting in a lie, in escense a false gospel. That is the snare that certainly National Isreal fell into. And I believe, that the local churches and congregations, to one degree or another, have also fallen into the same snare in teaching a gospel where man himself, and not God ALONE, is ultimately in control of their salvation.
I think that to understand the true Nature of Salvation, one must understand the true nature of mankind apart from God's mercy in salvation. The Bible, I believe, is crystal clear in this regard. We read in Romans 3:10-18 and many other passages on the Bible the terible spititual condition of each and every one of us apart from salvation. We are Spiritually Dead and it is God that must make us Spiriyually alive " Eph 2:1. Just as Jesus raised Lazarus from physical Death and Lazarus played no part in that whatsoever; God must raise us from Spiritual Death to Spiritual Life and we play no part in that whatsoever.
God did not look down the corridors of time before He created the world and saw that some would respond to the gospel and some would not. What He saw is the NO ONE would respond. But despite that dismal fact, God in His Mercy chose to save some. God does not tell us how He made that choice. But He did make it crystal clear that it was not because He saw that some were more likely to respond than others or that there was anything inherent in any one of us deserving of salvation. By nature we are all in rebelion against God and will never come to Him.
More to come
No, Peter Apostle was not thinking what you are thinking Peter was thinking. Oh no, absolutely. Your thinking is according to Chris. But in fact, Peter apostle was mentioning what he knew about GOD's time, and it is written in the Psalm 90:4, so Peter having the same Spirit that was is Moses, he confirmed in his universal epistle what Moses wrote in his prayer to the Lord GOD in the Psalms 90.
By the way, Moses in his prayer said too: -->(90:11 Who knoweth the power of thine anger? even according to thy fear, so is thy wrath. 12 So TEACH us to number our days, that we may apply our hearts unto wisdom.
GOD BLESS
Just to clarify, for your better understanding, broter SeanPaul around 21 hours ago(now page 2),he asked me saying'people mention GOD'S days as being 1 day=1000 of our years.Is this in the Bible?...where to find this? Please help'.
Then I quoted exactly as SeanPaul wrote trayng to help him. It's it.
But you, in your discernment, interpreted I was using Peter 3:8 to build the time line. In fact, I was only informing SeanPaul(in parentheses) were is written 'GOD'S days as being 1 day = 1000'. But I didn't just stop there, understand? I thought that through the time line he would advance more deeply biblically.
SIX PERIODS OF BIBLICAL TIMES ------------------DURATION
I- From Adam to the Flood-(Gen.5 plus 7:11)------1656 years
II- From the Flood to Abraham-( Gen. 11&12)-------427 years
III- From Abraham to Exodus-(Gal.3:17)-------------430 years
IV-From Exodus to king Saul-(1Reis6:1(480-84)-----396 years
V-From Saul to the fall of Jerusalem ------------------508 years
VI-From the fall of Jerusalem to Jesus ----------------587 years
Thus,from Adam to the 1st coming of Jesus --------4004 years
From Jesus to our days(Christian Calendar)---------2023 years
Total from Adam to our days -------------------------6027years
If we use the 2nd half of this verse to count. then the math here should be 9027.
Because 1000 years is as a day and Jesus who is GOD as the Son of Man said I will raise in 3 days. Yes , No , Thoughts?
So is it because I am thinking like a human and can not perceive GODS thought as this passage in implying with time?
So confusing this is why so many people give up on the Bible.
Thank you for explaining what I also was thinking.
I prayed last night after reading this verse for at least a hour over and over, help me see. I looked at a seminary instructions and classes for Bible study to learn on how one should study.
They say keep 3 things in mind who is talking, who are they talking to, and what are they addressing. Also what you think is the mean can not contradict the Bible because the Bible is the truth.
So when I read that verse all I see is what you see, is Peter trying to explain God doesn't perceive time as we do. If you read the entire chapter. But the years does help explain why the genealogy and years are so tedious in Genesis.
But this is all I can think, and forgive me Jesus if I'm wrong, If you take this idea and apply it across the Bible then it must be true everywhere is could be applied, Yes? Remember Jesus nor any other apostil ever said this. If Gods day is 1000 year and God said I will raise from the grave in 3 days , see my problem? or is that's why the second part of the verse is there?
2 Peter 3:8
I agree with Brother Chris, Peter is not giving specific number of years to calculate from;
If we look at verses 3-4 we see Peter is dealing with scoffers.
"Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation".
Verses 5,6 and 7 Peter reminds us that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth was destroyed by water and by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
Now we come to verse 8; "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
Verse 8 is giving us a picture of God's patience and longsuffering!
He's not setting there watching a clock drawing impatience.
It's explained in verse 9.
"Vs 9) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Verse 10 tells us when the Lord comes it will be no count down. He's coming suddenly!
Vs 10) But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night...
He mentions the longsuffering of our Lord again in verse 15.
"And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation;
one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
Is saying there is no clock that governs God's patience.
God bless.