I am glad that you are reading the Bible. You will find the Lord's company with you when you continue to do this. I will be praying for you to be able to become established with housing, work and resources to help you in your journey. I imagine that living on the streets is challenging in so many ways. And I am glad you were not injured with the event with the live wire! Many of us have had those close encounters with situations that are so dangerous or life threatening and somehow came away ok.
I will be away much of this week and am not sure if I can post anything on this site.
Since this site is dedicated to anonymity there are limitations to what we can do. Nonetheless; as I said in the last post the battles are fierce and we have a strong need to pray for the youth in this hour when suicide; drugs and gun violence are getting to be the number one killer today of that age group.
Discipling is also something commanded in the Great Commission but it seems painfully limited in churches today. There are other information sources; no doubt that can be recommended even here. Perhaps on this site a healthy question and answer sort of dialogue is helpful; and of course those who we know are living out their faith are good examples. It is better to primarily utilize men for men; women for women but sometimes as in my case women are more open to share things and give interaction. We especially see a lack of older women counseling younger in churches and here as well from what I can see.
Accountability is part of discipleship; again there are limitations here. Oftentimes when struggles are mentioned there seems to be a lack of tough love; which I suppose on my part may seem like serving a tongue for a beef meal. I have challenged people as to the chastisement and suffering that ALL true Godly people have in Christ Jesus.
My main theme here is study the scriptures as Bereans and spend time in prayer. I also have what would be considered a fairly traditional view on the Rapture before the Tribulation but think some believers may be left behind for a time to be refined which is not going to be readily accepted but I am trying to reasonably view scripture. Also I hold to a covenant marriage between one man and woman and personally don't believe in remarriage after divorce if a spouse is still alive (in other words I have an explanation for the "exception clause".
Dear Mr. Ballou: I am still trying to assess the best way to minister here. I have been posting rather frequently the last couple years. There are a handful of individuals that respond with some regularity; GIGI being the one who is most communicative; and I consider her to be a true woman of faith who is very intelligent in the Word. My approach is usually to start with a subject or concept then build scriptures around it which mirrors my thought processes; rather than finding a Biblical theme or expository preaching as it were; although there are times I have lately commented on certain scriptural passages. I try to think "outside the box" and be cognizant of what's going on in not only the mainline news but alternative news; history; and focus on Bible Prophecy a great deal. I have gone through the subject of Predestination and other points of Calvin with a specific study focusing on these themes in the Book of John at some point last year. I tend to write very quickly and find scriptures on a search so that there is normally a nice helping as it were of scriptures to back up anything I say...admittedly there have been a few postings of late not so much so.
As to prayer on this site; I have had a concern for quite a while that there is no organized commitment so that any serious requests are granted. It may be up to us and I will mention this to you although I don't know you that well; that looking to find those that have been missed as you have and praying for them would be a good ministry.
I am torn between an interest in deeper delving into some of the broad subjects here and the quagmires that often result through disagreements where it seems nothing edifying comes out of it. Again there are rules here as to derogatory or demamatory language being excluded but we should probably monitor for ourselves to avoid these pitfalls.
As a friend of mine said a few years back he was "desperate for prayer" the war is won; but battles fierce.
I'm sorry but I fail to see how your understanding fits with any of the verses I have quoted.
Universal Atonement and Freewill relative to salvation are not taught in the Bible despite verses that when isolated may appear to do so.
When coming to conclusions regarding the Bible, all of the verses that relate must harmonize.
Unfortunately, failure to follow the Biblical principles of interpretation in virtually every church and denomination have contributed to teachings on critical doctrines, like the Nature of Salvation that are all over the map and ultimately place man and not God in control.
God bless you Rich, for seeking the Lord on my behalf and those blessings are happening as we speak . I will seek the Lord on your behalf also. glad to see He's got your back. thanks for talking to me . praise the Lord !
Hi Adam: There are several points I'd like to address in your comment. I am very much against the "KJB only" people who are mean and condemning. That just isn't right behavior for a christian and I never said that I believe as they do in any of my posts. I do believe when a christian is convicted by the Holy Ghost to do or not do anything, no matter what it is, and they disobey their soul is in trouble with God.
This is your quote, "Some can be fanatical like a man-made religion centered around man's opinion. Could this show a lack of trust in God in his ability to use other translations for his Glory? " Yes and no. Yes in that no fanatical opinion should be used to form a religion. If, and I may be wrong about this, you consider my continuing to address this subject as fanatical, I do it to give another opinion as opposed to so many that endorse these uninspired versions and that isn't fanatical. No in that these other versions are NOT inspired by the Holy Spirit so do not glorify God. Can't you see that just by the way they leave out giving Glory to Jesus when they could give Him glory?
2 Timothy 2:15 really comes into play here. If christians would just study for themselves to see which version is God's the NIV wouldn't be the best selling bible right now. So sad. The great and almighty God protected the purity of every word that was written from the beginning to 1611 when the Holy Ghost moved on the authors to put them together as He wanted it to be. The proof is in the pudding, as they say, the KJB always gives honor to the Father and the Son but just seeing the examples I gave in my last comment proves that the modern versions don't.
Why would the Holy Spirit change His mind and leave out parts of verses like Matthew 18:11 "For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost." is left out or in Luke 4:8 leaving out "And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve." or Ephesians 3:14 "For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ," NIV " For this reason I kneel before the Father, ESV "For this reason I bow my knees before the Father." What is your response to this?
The "walking in the park" example you gave was incorrect. These verses didn't just rearrange the words they left the words, edifying Christ, OUT. How do you think these versions glorify God when they are throwing His Son under the bus? I know that the KJB authors added books, chapters and verses but if that is the way it is written then that is the way God wanted it done. You have to believe, as I do, that either the Holy Ghost was in complete control of the writing of the KJB 1611 or you do not. To me it's that simple. I have a long list of scripture comparisons of the KJB to several popular modern versions and it's more then enough to think either God's Holy Spirit inspired the KJB only or He is a God who is dissatisfied with His original bible and wants it done over and over and over again. The NIV claimed that it only replaced old fashioned words with modern ones, but in the end it came up 64,000 words shorter then the KJB and had 3600 changes that affected doctrine like the examples I gave above.
Ask yourself, why are you so adamant about supporting the modern versions? There is good in them, wherever they truly copy the KJB, but the rest is corrupt, so why eat the poison with the good. Do you think the poison in these versions isn't going to hurt you? Let me tell you a story: A young boy was nagging his father because he wanted to go see a worldly movie with his buddies. His father said no because of the cussing and immodest women in it but the son said there was just a little in it and he really wanted to see the movie so he kept nagging his dad to let him go. After awhile the dad said let's forget about the movie for now and go bake a chocolate cake. The son was all for it. In the kitchen the father and the son brought out all the delicious ingredients for the cake; milk, flour, sugar, eggs, baking chocolate, etc. and made the delicious creamy batter for the cake. The son was ready to bake it but the father said, "wait" there is one more ingredient to add so he gave his son a 1/4 teaspoon and told the boy to go out to the garden and fill it with dirt and bring it in to him. The son was very puzzled but he went and got the dirt. When he brought it in his father said okay add it to the batter and then we can bake it and have some delicious chocolate cake. "No dad" the son said, that would ruin it. I'm not going to eat a cake with dirt in it. "Well" the father said "its just a little bit and it won't show once you stir it in and you won't be able to taste it, probably." The son still refused and then the father made his point. "Son" your adamant about not putting a pinch of dirt in your cake but are willing to put dirt into your heart and mind by watching, "just a little bit" of worldliness in a movie. The son understood and agreed so dad took him swimming instead. Do you see my point, why watch the movie when you can go swimming with dad? God Bless :)
Hebrews 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
HAPPY FATHER'S DAY
As I walk around this afternoon I hear bellicose voices likely imbibing alcohol where men are wishing themselves a happy Father's day. This follows a sermon on the subject by our Deacon (as our Pastor is out of town this week). The concept of that sermon was demographics; differences between thought processes of men vs women; the fact that one thing women can do men cannot (giving birth); and finally scriptures on how men ought to be; and the scriptural plan for manhood followed by marriage followed by becoming a Father with the emphasis on the covenant between one man and one woman for life.
As I explore the verse quoted above; it is hard not to see how (as part of the sermon also brought forth as a concept) that kids today have lost a work ethic and are basically unruly not hearing the word "NO" from youth. This; of course has to do with one or both parents but as we all know the emasculation of true manhood has left many children feeling insecure; never being able to settle down. That would naturally extend to an unhealthy desire to acquire material possessions; as well as setting a bad example for their own children. There also is the fallout from those who have relationships and lifestyles that are either deviant or not sanctioned by scripture as traditional marriage has been given a bum rap. Hence we also see a disrespect and lack of honor of elderly people who are often ignored and placed into a Nursing Home and not listened to for their wisdom and practical advice.
There are cases where single fathers clearly ARE the best choice as opposed to mothers who are beset with addiction or other issues. Clearly a two parent home is the best environment as studying data makes pretty self evident under MOST circumstances.
God didn't want to curse Adam and Eve so He cursed the ground/earth instead, Genesis 3:17 "And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;". He also cursed the serpent, verse 14.
That curse ended with Noah, Genesis 5:29, "And he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the LORD hath cursed."
The ground is only one part. Without considering both ground and the heavenly places carnal wisdom gives the ungodly a wrong prognosis. War on terror in Iraq led to something least expected. It has been thus from the beginning,
Whereas the Law of the Spirit lays down another rule. This has been declared before the foundation of the world. John hears the Word announce it. "And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them."(Re.14:13)
'Henceforth' is similar to the phrases the Spirit uses. It is enacted when the Lamb slain breaks open the first seal. The rider on the white horse goes forth conquering and to conquer. (Re.6:2). The martyrs are blessed because he shall slay the wicked one,"whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming"(2 The.2:8:-12). Re.19:15.
"Of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;"
Ground also implies human existence where disobedience sown by one man brings a bumper crop of misery. Labor is wasted and famine and pestilence are ever waiting to come in. Tree of life judged man who ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. What good is to use killer weeds and have the forever chemicals in the water you drink? What good is to save a burning brand out of fire only to have it set your own house in fire?
Only God is good and who is restoring the world ravaged by sin. "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil." ( 1 John 3:8). The West is as much compromised by the works of the devil. We often heard ad nauseam the six millions Jews perishing in the holocaust. Do we hear as much of lives lost by the West. In 1943 was the Bengal famine owing to the wrong policies of Great Britain. Three million lives perished by their policies. Have they even publicly acknowledged their guilt? It is thus nations have shown their hypocrisy.
The West has thus interfered in the 'Jewish question' of the last century to see another kind of ethnic cleansing and genocide now going on before them in the present times. Growing up complacent and being complicit in their crimes does not leave the future generation free from guilt. It is sin where faithless generation shall flounder in the moral morass of their fathers. It is what law of sin demands the devil's due since sinful man is a servant to the devil.
The ground is only one part. Without considering both ground and the heavenly places carnal wisdom gives the ungodly a wrong prognosis. War on terror in Iraq led to something least expected. It has been thus from the beginning.
I used to live in Pittsburgh and I think someone told me something similar where a wire electrocuted several people altogether until the guy got rescued. The Lord had me close to being hit by a train when I was a kid and some girl pulled me out; I had a bullet shot through the ceiling when someone claimed they were "cleaning their gun" and no one including my cat was hit; was able to swerve to just miss a head on with someone in the wrong lane about a year ago going full speed to name a few things in my life.
It is good to be cognizant and not cause an early demise because of sin and or stupidity; but also trust the Lord in His timing knows when we will be born and when we die; and when this Rapture finally occurs. It is; of course where we are going that is the crucial thing at the end of our earthly tabernacles; and as Paul said in Philippians to live is Christ and to die is gain (chapter 1; verse 21). He also wished to run for the prize and to accomplish as a man in the races as much as he could bringing himself under strong discipline.
Sounds like you may live on the street; I will seek the Lord as to opening avenues for you for finances; work you can handle and shelter as well as food.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. 14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then it is NOT OF HIM THE WILLETH, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Jeremiah 17:9 The HEART is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Joel 2:12-14
12 Therefore also now, saith the LORD, turn ye even to me with ALL YOUR HEART, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning: 13 And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil. 14 WHO KNOWETH if he will return and repent, and leave a blessing behind him; even a meat offering and a drink offering unto the LORD your God?
Ezekiel 36:24-28
24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A NEW HEART also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. 28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
Eph 2:1,8-10
1 And you hath he quickened, who were DEAD in trespasses and sins;
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
please pray that ALL of my siblings can become born again and for ALL of my relatives and ALL of my step-relatives and please pray that EVERY christen including me can grow in our spiritual life and that we can do work for god and do whatever he wants us to do please pray that his will be done and in Jesus ALMIGHTY name! thanks, may my ALMIGHTY and LOVING God bless you all.
Hi everyone, I'd like to ask for prayer for my nephew who I believe is being neglected and abused by his father. My nephew has autism and cannot fully take care of himself and his father is his legal caretaker. Why the court would allow his father to do this, I do not know.. since his father has been in trouble with the law quite a few times. Thank you for your prayers, God bless.
I never said that nor do I believe it but why would you want to read a version that deminishes the diety of Christ?Adam gave an incorrect example he said: " if I say I walked to the park it's not incorrect to say the park is where I walked to, this is correct but it's wrong to just say I went for a walk, leaving out an important part of the information; his walk was to the park. If the NIV was written just to modernize the language then why is it 64,000 words shorter then the KJB, and have 3600 changes that affect doctrine.
Please remember me and my daughters and their families today in your prayers Please remember the McCallister family in your prayers they lost their son in a plane crash Friday morning
"Unto Adam also and to his wife did theLordGod make coats of skins, and clothed them."(v.21)
God making coats of skins reiterates the idea 'without shedding of the blood there is no remission of sins.' Where law of sin existed God pointed what to look for. The Law of the Spirit was demonstrated in the mind of Christ which is to be understood spiritually. Example of Seth as an intercessor is a case in point." After our likeness" established the fulness of Jesus Christ so whosoever believed in him entered into the covenant, in his Man component. So Law of Moses was intended as a BandAid cure for one slain by law of sin. The brazen serpent on the pole explains it.
That is faith brethren while a rational man contradicts himself with his mouth. He is a fool, a know nothing. Before him casting pearls may not always end up happily. We may see it in our case. Does anyone think if the imposter church is shown to be wrong in showing they are following doctrine of men and not the gospel of God set forth in the covenant in the opening chapters. that they shall disband and revere God and His holiness?
The entire episode of Eden and the Fall of man takes place in the heavenly places. It is same as we are called to do. We are dead to the world and our lives are hid in Christ. Similarly his life 'hid in Christ meaning that he is created ;after our image and after our likeness'. We produce nevertheless fruits of the Spirit proving the seed in itself, so quality of it proves if we are good or bad tree. What God has not planted shall be cast forth for fire. God has not revised his blessings held out under the covenant.
The Spirit never mentioned the first martyr as dead, Instead he slept. God is the God of the living so their death merely follows God's warning, "And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit./And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.?(Ac.7:59-60) Spirit goes to its set place as what is formed of the ground to its place.
"In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return."
"Sweat of thy face"
St Paul makes a distinction between the face and heart. "For all thingsarefor your sakes, that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving of many redound to the glory of God./For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inwardmanis renewed day by day."(2 Co.4:15-16) Face refers to outward man while heart is a spiritual space about heart which is not any anatomical part. Like the throne is used with reference to the earth as a footstool. It is thus we set Law of the Spirit far above the ground to which the law of sin rules the roost.
So what is face? We have the face of heaven declaring the glory of God as face of Cain was noticeable. "And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell./And theLordsaid unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?"(Ge.4:5-6) Consider this verse,"For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, togivethe light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ."(2 Co.4:6). The Spirit sets face as the interface between God and man. This is a direct reference to this statement, "And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters./And God said, Let there be light: and there was light."(Ge.1:2-3)
"The light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ" working with our inner man does something to the heart which is knowledge leading to understanding. "The fear of theLordis the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding."(Pr.9:10). Thus no man may excuse that he was ignorant of the Law of the Spirit. When God commanded, 'Fiat Lux!' our inner man knows. That is faith brethren while a rational man contradicts himself with his mouth.
Hello JBTthe3rd. The word 'Sanctification' is from the Latin, 'sanctificare' (to make holy), and 'sanctus' (holy). We also get the word, 'Saint' from this word. The very real meaning of 'Separation' is also involved in this word, as that which is unholy cannot fuse with that which is holy, but must be set apart from it.
We can look at Sanctification in generally three aspects:
a. a true believer in God, having been saved & redeemed through Jesus' Sacrifice, is said to be 'Positionally Sanctified'. That is, by virtue of now being a child of God, through Jesus His Son, the Christian is Separated & made Holy unto God by this position in Christ ( 1 Corinthians 1:30; 1 Peter 1:2).
b. as the believer walks this new separated life, he is also 'Experientially Sanctified'. When we grow in knowledge & experience of our Lord & Savior, we grow to be more like Jesus, hating & avoiding sin and displaying more & more of the Fruit of the Holy Spirit ( Philippians 2:13, Galatians 5:22-25).
c. we can know that we are truly in Christ, separated from the world & its lusts; we can also desire to grow to be more Christ-like in all our ways; but since the pull of the flesh is always at war with our spirit, we long for the day for our 'Future Sanctification', when our earthly struggles will be over and we will be taken into Christ Jesus' Presence (whether in the Rapture or through the veil of death), and we will be entirely perfect (without any stain of sin) & become as He is Holy & Perfect ( 1 John 3:1-3, Ephesians 5:27, Jude 1:24,25).
So the problem is: if God saves BEFORE we can believe - and Belief/Faith can only happen at the moment of salvation, what then is the penitent sinner believing & calling out to God in faith, if it is not Believing & Faith itself. Rather, it may be better stated, 'that the Holy Spirit at the proper time gives the needed Grace & Faith to believe ( Ephesians 2:8), yet the sinner coming to the Lord still needs Faith to believe by the Grace of God - and I believe that this Faith in no way contributes to God's Work of Salvation. As well, if a sinner is born again, he already has expressed belief/faith, therefore it cannot happen at or after salvation is given.
Acts 16:30,31, describes this matter well. The Philippian jailer, after seeing what took place in his prison, cried out to Paul & Silas, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" The jailer was still unregenerate at this point, when Paul & Silas said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house". The jailer, as all sinners, have to believe on Jesus & His finished Work for them - and this belief is when they are still in sin & not at or after salvation.
If the sinner has been true about himself & his need before God, the assurance of that great Work of Salvation is now completed in him & he steps out in great joy & great desire to follow the path of holiness. This I understand is 'Born Again', its work in the sinner & the change of life that ensues.
To the other part of your comment. You stated, "I want to make it clear that there is no salvation without repentance from sin and a broken and contrite heart before God. But this again is the work of God within us as He is drawing and saving us. It is not due to any inherent character within us."
Given what you've stated here & what we've discussed earlier, you state that this (repentance & brokenness) is the Work of God within us as He is drawing and saving us. But back to our problem: if this is the Work of God (to bring about repentance & brokenness), surely this is the unsaved sinner's response before God - that which you have written can never happen, since such a response would be adding to God's Work. As I remember, you've stated previously that it is only God Who saves: "We must be Born Again as God applies His Salvation to those whom He saves BEFORE we can believe with our whole heart. That is Salvation. And our Belief, our Faith is the RESULT of God applying salvation to one of His elect. And is not because we have "accepted" an offer of salvation". (continued on Page 3).
Thank you David0921 for your response. I would align myself with most of what you've written concerning biblical inspiration, that the Word of God is indeed wholly authored by God. Yet, when I read 2 Timothy 3:16, that "ALL scripture is given by the inspiration of God", I would be in conflict with some who hold fervently that what we read now (from the ancient recordings, also the KJB) are the actual Words that God (by His Spirit) spoke to godly men to write. "Inspiration" to me, doesn't mean that God dictated the Words to record, nor does it mean that the fingers of the writers were gripped by Him to pen those holy Words. Rather, as men recorded down what they saw or learned, God's Spirit was present to help them record accurately and remember correctly. That said, since you brought it up, I'll move on.
"What do I believe the Bible says about the term BORN AGAIN?" When we have Scriptures such as John 3:3-8, 1 Peter 1:22-23, 1 John 2:29, 1 John 5:1, & others in John's epistle, we can believe that this re-birth is wholly of God & not of man's doing or involvement; that re-birth is a spiritual birth, whereby God gives us a new spirit (His Spirit) Who always inclines us towards God & His Son; that God's Ministry to us can only be to our revived spirit in us and not to the flesh that has no desire after godly things. Therefore, we are to continue to crucify our flesh which lusts against the Holy Spirit ( Galatians 5:17) in us & distracts us from serving God acceptably & in fear. Therefore, by the Holy Spirit in us, we have become new creatures in Christ Jesus, reckoning ourselves to be dead unto sin but alive unto God through Jesus Christ. This re-birth must be the final Work of God in the sometimes lengthy course in a person's struggle dealing with conviction of sin, brokenness, humility, & cry for a Savior to save & redeem him. (continued on Page 2).
Telling a believer that they are not a true Christian because of what bible version they choose to read is a terrible thing to say. A true Christian is a person who has been born of God's Spirit, Period!
I put a testimony about surviving a live telephone wire, because of Jesus, and I heard from no one. Please talk with me if there's anyone here. I need the fellowship
To add to my earlier comment and your statements regarding repentance and brokenness before God. I want to make it clear that there is no salvation without repentance from sin and a broken and contrite heart before God.
But this again is the work of God within us as He is drawing and saving us. It is not due to any inherent character within us.
I think that some of this may be seen as God is drawing us. But it will certainly be in evidence once God applies His Salvation to our life, in performing the MIRACLE of the New Birth, in giving the one whom He is saving a New Resurrected Soul, ie making them Born Again.
I do believe that God may DRAW those whom He saves in very individual and varied ways. This might be very quickly or very prolonged.
This is all very mysterious and we need to be very careful not to put our spin on God's process. But one thing is certain. All of this is God's work not our work in any sense as God works within us to will and to do of His good pleasure.
All of the glory for every aspect of our salvation belongs to God Alone. And we can take no credit whatsoever for any part of our salvation. Lest we become like the man of Numbers 15.
We should stand amazed that God would have saved us. And asking WHY ME? I deserve only Thy wrath and condemnation.
I am glad that you are reading the Bible. You will find the Lord's company with you when you continue to do this. I will be praying for you to be able to become established with housing, work and resources to help you in your journey. I imagine that living on the streets is challenging in so many ways. And I am glad you were not injured with the event with the live wire! Many of us have had those close encounters with situations that are so dangerous or life threatening and somehow came away ok.
I will be away much of this week and am not sure if I can post anything on this site.
Since this site is dedicated to anonymity there are limitations to what we can do. Nonetheless; as I said in the last post the battles are fierce and we have a strong need to pray for the youth in this hour when suicide; drugs and gun violence are getting to be the number one killer today of that age group.
Discipling is also something commanded in the Great Commission but it seems painfully limited in churches today. There are other information sources; no doubt that can be recommended even here. Perhaps on this site a healthy question and answer sort of dialogue is helpful; and of course those who we know are living out their faith are good examples. It is better to primarily utilize men for men; women for women but sometimes as in my case women are more open to share things and give interaction. We especially see a lack of older women counseling younger in churches and here as well from what I can see.
Accountability is part of discipleship; again there are limitations here. Oftentimes when struggles are mentioned there seems to be a lack of tough love; which I suppose on my part may seem like serving a tongue for a beef meal. I have challenged people as to the chastisement and suffering that ALL true Godly people have in Christ Jesus.
My main theme here is study the scriptures as Bereans and spend time in prayer. I also have what would be considered a fairly traditional view on the Rapture before the Tribulation but think some believers may be left behind for a time to be refined which is not going to be readily accepted but I am trying to reasonably view scripture. Also I hold to a covenant marriage between one man and woman and personally don't believe in remarriage after divorce if a spouse is still alive (in other words I have an explanation for the "exception clause".
I am open to suggestions to improve.
Agape.
As to prayer on this site; I have had a concern for quite a while that there is no organized commitment so that any serious requests are granted. It may be up to us and I will mention this to you although I don't know you that well; that looking to find those that have been missed as you have and praying for them would be a good ministry.
I am torn between an interest in deeper delving into some of the broad subjects here and the quagmires that often result through disagreements where it seems nothing edifying comes out of it. Again there are rules here as to derogatory or demamatory language being excluded but we should probably monitor for ourselves to avoid these pitfalls.
As a friend of mine said a few years back he was "desperate for prayer" the war is won; but battles fierce.
I'm sorry but I fail to see how your understanding fits with any of the verses I have quoted.
Universal Atonement and Freewill relative to salvation are not taught in the Bible despite verses that when isolated may appear to do so.
When coming to conclusions regarding the Bible, all of the verses that relate must harmonize.
Unfortunately, failure to follow the Biblical principles of interpretation in virtually every church and denomination have contributed to teachings on critical doctrines, like the Nature of Salvation that are all over the map and ultimately place man and not God in control.
Hi Adam: There are several points I'd like to address in your comment. I am very much against the "KJB only" people who are mean and condemning. That just isn't right behavior for a christian and I never said that I believe as they do in any of my posts. I do believe when a christian is convicted by the Holy Ghost to do or not do anything, no matter what it is, and they disobey their soul is in trouble with God.
This is your quote, "Some can be fanatical like a man-made religion centered around man's opinion. Could this show a lack of trust in God in his ability to use other translations for his Glory? " Yes and no. Yes in that no fanatical opinion should be used to form a religion. If, and I may be wrong about this, you consider my continuing to address this subject as fanatical, I do it to give another opinion as opposed to so many that endorse these uninspired versions and that isn't fanatical. No in that these other versions are NOT inspired by the Holy Spirit so do not glorify God. Can't you see that just by the way they leave out giving Glory to Jesus when they could give Him glory?
2 Timothy 2:15 really comes into play here. If christians would just study for themselves to see which version is God's the NIV wouldn't be the best selling bible right now. So sad. The great and almighty God protected the purity of every word that was written from the beginning to 1611 when the Holy Ghost moved on the authors to put them together as He wanted it to be. The proof is in the pudding, as they say, the KJB always gives honor to the Father and the Son but just seeing the examples I gave in my last comment proves that the modern versions don't.
Why would the Holy Spirit change His mind and leave out parts of verses like Matthew 18:11 "For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost." is left out or in Luke 4:8 leaving out "And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve." or Ephesians 3:14 "For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ," NIV " For this reason I kneel before the Father, ESV "For this reason I bow my knees before the Father." What is your response to this?
The "walking in the park" example you gave was incorrect. These verses didn't just rearrange the words they left the words, edifying Christ, OUT. How do you think these versions glorify God when they are throwing His Son under the bus? I know that the KJB authors added books, chapters and verses but if that is the way it is written then that is the way God wanted it done. You have to believe, as I do, that either the Holy Ghost was in complete control of the writing of the KJB 1611 or you do not. To me it's that simple. I have a long list of scripture comparisons of the KJB to several popular modern versions and it's more then enough to think either God's Holy Spirit inspired the KJB only or He is a God who is dissatisfied with His original bible and wants it done over and over and over again. The NIV claimed that it only replaced old fashioned words with modern ones, but in the end it came up 64,000 words shorter then the KJB and had 3600 changes that affected doctrine like the examples I gave above.
Ask yourself, why are you so adamant about supporting the modern versions? There is good in them, wherever they truly copy the KJB, but the rest is corrupt, so why eat the poison with the good. Do you think the poison in these versions isn't going to hurt you? Let me tell you a story: A young boy was nagging his father because he wanted to go see a worldly movie with his buddies. His father said no because of the cussing and immodest women in it but the son said there was just a little in it and he really wanted to see the movie so he kept nagging his dad to let him go. After awhile the dad said let's forget about the movie for now and go bake a chocolate cake. The son was all for it. In the kitchen the father and the son brought out all the delicious ingredients for the cake; milk, flour, sugar, eggs, baking chocolate, etc. and made the delicious creamy batter for the cake. The son was ready to bake it but the father said, "wait" there is one more ingredient to add so he gave his son a 1/4 teaspoon and told the boy to go out to the garden and fill it with dirt and bring it in to him. The son was very puzzled but he went and got the dirt. When he brought it in his father said okay add it to the batter and then we can bake it and have some delicious chocolate cake. "No dad" the son said, that would ruin it. I'm not going to eat a cake with dirt in it. "Well" the father said "its just a little bit and it won't show once you stir it in and you won't be able to taste it, probably." The son still refused and then the father made his point. "Son" your adamant about not putting a pinch of dirt in your cake but are willing to put dirt into your heart and mind by watching, "just a little bit" of worldliness in a movie. The son understood and agreed so dad took him swimming instead. Do you see my point, why watch the movie when you can go swimming with dad? God Bless :)
HAPPY FATHER'S DAY
As I walk around this afternoon I hear bellicose voices likely imbibing alcohol where men are wishing themselves a happy Father's day. This follows a sermon on the subject by our Deacon (as our Pastor is out of town this week). The concept of that sermon was demographics; differences between thought processes of men vs women; the fact that one thing women can do men cannot (giving birth); and finally scriptures on how men ought to be; and the scriptural plan for manhood followed by marriage followed by becoming a Father with the emphasis on the covenant between one man and one woman for life.
As I explore the verse quoted above; it is hard not to see how (as part of the sermon also brought forth as a concept) that kids today have lost a work ethic and are basically unruly not hearing the word "NO" from youth. This; of course has to do with one or both parents but as we all know the emasculation of true manhood has left many children feeling insecure; never being able to settle down. That would naturally extend to an unhealthy desire to acquire material possessions; as well as setting a bad example for their own children. There also is the fallout from those who have relationships and lifestyles that are either deviant or not sanctioned by scripture as traditional marriage has been given a bum rap. Hence we also see a disrespect and lack of honor of elderly people who are often ignored and placed into a Nursing Home and not listened to for their wisdom and practical advice.
There are cases where single fathers clearly ARE the best choice as opposed to mothers who are beset with addiction or other issues. Clearly a two parent home is the best environment as studying data makes pretty self evident under MOST circumstances.
God didn't want to curse Adam and Eve so He cursed the ground/earth instead, Genesis 3:17 "And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;". He also cursed the serpent, verse 14.
That curse ended with Noah, Genesis 5:29, "And he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the LORD hath cursed."
The ground is only one part. Without considering both ground and the heavenly places carnal wisdom gives the ungodly a wrong prognosis. War on terror in Iraq led to something least expected. It has been thus from the beginning,
Whereas the Law of the Spirit lays down another rule. This has been declared before the foundation of the world. John hears the Word announce it. "And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them."(Re.14:13)
'Henceforth' is similar to the phrases the Spirit uses. It is enacted when the Lamb slain breaks open the first seal. The rider on the white horse goes forth conquering and to conquer. (Re.6:2). The martyrs are blessed because he shall slay the wicked one,"whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming"(2 The.2:8:-12). Re.19:15.
"Of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;"
Ground also implies human existence where disobedience sown by one man brings a bumper crop of misery. Labor is wasted and famine and pestilence are ever waiting to come in. Tree of life judged man who ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. What good is to use killer weeds and have the forever chemicals in the water you drink? What good is to save a burning brand out of fire only to have it set your own house in fire?
Only God is good and who is restoring the world ravaged by sin. "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil." ( 1 John 3:8). The West is as much compromised by the works of the devil. We often heard ad nauseam the six millions Jews perishing in the holocaust. Do we hear as much of lives lost by the West. In 1943 was the Bengal famine owing to the wrong policies of Great Britain. Three million lives perished by their policies. Have they even publicly acknowledged their guilt? It is thus nations have shown their hypocrisy.
The West has thus interfered in the 'Jewish question' of the last century to see another kind of ethnic cleansing and genocide now going on before them in the present times. Growing up complacent and being complicit in their crimes does not leave the future generation free from guilt. It is sin where faithless generation shall flounder in the moral morass of their fathers. It is what law of sin demands the devil's due since sinful man is a servant to the devil.
The ground is only one part. Without considering both ground and the heavenly places carnal wisdom gives the ungodly a wrong prognosis. War on terror in Iraq led to something least expected. It has been thus from the beginning.
It is good to be cognizant and not cause an early demise because of sin and or stupidity; but also trust the Lord in His timing knows when we will be born and when we die; and when this Rapture finally occurs. It is; of course where we are going that is the crucial thing at the end of our earthly tabernacles; and as Paul said in Philippians to live is Christ and to die is gain (chapter 1; verse 21). He also wished to run for the prize and to accomplish as a man in the races as much as he could bringing himself under strong discipline.
Sounds like you may live on the street; I will seek the Lord as to opening avenues for you for finances; work you can handle and shelter as well as food.
Agape: rich P
Romans 9:13-16
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. 14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then it is NOT OF HIM THE WILLETH, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Jeremiah 17:9 The HEART is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Joel 2:12-14
12 Therefore also now, saith the LORD, turn ye even to me with ALL YOUR HEART, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning: 13 And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil. 14 WHO KNOWETH if he will return and repent, and leave a blessing behind him; even a meat offering and a drink offering unto the LORD your God?
Ezekiel 36:24-28
24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A NEW HEART also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. 28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
Eph 2:1,8-10
1 And you hath he quickened, who were DEAD in trespasses and sins;
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
In Genesis 2:8 the Masoritic text says, "And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed."
The Septuagint text says, "And God planted a paradise in Edem to the east, and put there the man whom he formed"
In Genesis 2:15 the M/c says, "And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it."
The S/t says, "And the Lord the God took the man whom he formed, and put him into the paradise of pleasure/delight to work and protect it."
God Bless :)
"Unto Adam also and to his wife did theLordGod make coats of skins, and clothed them."(v.21)
God making coats of skins reiterates the idea 'without shedding of the blood there is no remission of sins.' Where law of sin existed God pointed what to look for. The Law of the Spirit was demonstrated in the mind of Christ which is to be understood spiritually. Example of Seth as an intercessor is a case in point." After our likeness" established the fulness of Jesus Christ so whosoever believed in him entered into the covenant, in his Man component. So Law of Moses was intended as a BandAid cure for one slain by law of sin. The brazen serpent on the pole explains it.
That is faith brethren while a rational man contradicts himself with his mouth. He is a fool, a know nothing. Before him casting pearls may not always end up happily. We may see it in our case. Does anyone think if the imposter church is shown to be wrong in showing they are following doctrine of men and not the gospel of God set forth in the covenant in the opening chapters. that they shall disband and revere God and His holiness?
The entire episode of Eden and the Fall of man takes place in the heavenly places. It is same as we are called to do. We are dead to the world and our lives are hid in Christ. Similarly his life 'hid in Christ meaning that he is created ;after our image and after our likeness'. We produce nevertheless fruits of the Spirit proving the seed in itself, so quality of it proves if we are good or bad tree. What God has not planted shall be cast forth for fire. God has not revised his blessings held out under the covenant.
The Spirit never mentioned the first martyr as dead, Instead he slept. God is the God of the living so their death merely follows God's warning, "And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit./And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.?(Ac.7:59-60) Spirit goes to its set place as what is formed of the ground to its place.
"In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return."
"Sweat of thy face"
St Paul makes a distinction between the face and heart. "For all thingsarefor your sakes, that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving of many redound to the glory of God./For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inwardmanis renewed day by day."(2 Co.4:15-16) Face refers to outward man while heart is a spiritual space about heart which is not any anatomical part. Like the throne is used with reference to the earth as a footstool. It is thus we set Law of the Spirit far above the ground to which the law of sin rules the roost.
So what is face? We have the face of heaven declaring the glory of God as face of Cain was noticeable. "And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell./And theLordsaid unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?"(Ge.4:5-6) Consider this verse,"For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, togivethe light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ."(2 Co.4:6). The Spirit sets face as the interface between God and man. This is a direct reference to this statement, "And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters./And God said, Let there be light: and there was light."(Ge.1:2-3)
"The light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ" working with our inner man does something to the heart which is knowledge leading to understanding. "The fear of theLordis the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding."(Pr.9:10). Thus no man may excuse that he was ignorant of the Law of the Spirit. When God commanded, 'Fiat Lux!' our inner man knows. That is faith brethren while a rational man contradicts himself with his mouth.
We can look at Sanctification in generally three aspects:
a. a true believer in God, having been saved & redeemed through Jesus' Sacrifice, is said to be 'Positionally Sanctified'. That is, by virtue of now being a child of God, through Jesus His Son, the Christian is Separated & made Holy unto God by this position in Christ ( 1 Corinthians 1:30; 1 Peter 1:2).
b. as the believer walks this new separated life, he is also 'Experientially Sanctified'. When we grow in knowledge & experience of our Lord & Savior, we grow to be more like Jesus, hating & avoiding sin and displaying more & more of the Fruit of the Holy Spirit ( Philippians 2:13, Galatians 5:22-25).
c. we can know that we are truly in Christ, separated from the world & its lusts; we can also desire to grow to be more Christ-like in all our ways; but since the pull of the flesh is always at war with our spirit, we long for the day for our 'Future Sanctification', when our earthly struggles will be over and we will be taken into Christ Jesus' Presence (whether in the Rapture or through the veil of death), and we will be entirely perfect (without any stain of sin) & become as He is Holy & Perfect ( 1 John 3:1-3, Ephesians 5:27, Jude 1:24,25).
So the problem is: if God saves BEFORE we can believe - and Belief/Faith can only happen at the moment of salvation, what then is the penitent sinner believing & calling out to God in faith, if it is not Believing & Faith itself. Rather, it may be better stated, 'that the Holy Spirit at the proper time gives the needed Grace & Faith to believe ( Ephesians 2:8), yet the sinner coming to the Lord still needs Faith to believe by the Grace of God - and I believe that this Faith in no way contributes to God's Work of Salvation. As well, if a sinner is born again, he already has expressed belief/faith, therefore it cannot happen at or after salvation is given.
Acts 16:30,31, describes this matter well. The Philippian jailer, after seeing what took place in his prison, cried out to Paul & Silas, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" The jailer was still unregenerate at this point, when Paul & Silas said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house". The jailer, as all sinners, have to believe on Jesus & His finished Work for them - and this belief is when they are still in sin & not at or after salvation.
If the sinner has been true about himself & his need before God, the assurance of that great Work of Salvation is now completed in him & he steps out in great joy & great desire to follow the path of holiness. This I understand is 'Born Again', its work in the sinner & the change of life that ensues.
To the other part of your comment. You stated, "I want to make it clear that there is no salvation without repentance from sin and a broken and contrite heart before God. But this again is the work of God within us as He is drawing and saving us. It is not due to any inherent character within us."
Given what you've stated here & what we've discussed earlier, you state that this (repentance & brokenness) is the Work of God within us as He is drawing and saving us. But back to our problem: if this is the Work of God (to bring about repentance & brokenness), surely this is the unsaved sinner's response before God - that which you have written can never happen, since such a response would be adding to God's Work. As I remember, you've stated previously that it is only God Who saves: "We must be Born Again as God applies His Salvation to those whom He saves BEFORE we can believe with our whole heart. That is Salvation. And our Belief, our Faith is the RESULT of God applying salvation to one of His elect. And is not because we have "accepted" an offer of salvation". (continued on Page 3).
Thank you David0921 for your response. I would align myself with most of what you've written concerning biblical inspiration, that the Word of God is indeed wholly authored by God. Yet, when I read 2 Timothy 3:16, that "ALL scripture is given by the inspiration of God", I would be in conflict with some who hold fervently that what we read now (from the ancient recordings, also the KJB) are the actual Words that God (by His Spirit) spoke to godly men to write. "Inspiration" to me, doesn't mean that God dictated the Words to record, nor does it mean that the fingers of the writers were gripped by Him to pen those holy Words. Rather, as men recorded down what they saw or learned, God's Spirit was present to help them record accurately and remember correctly. That said, since you brought it up, I'll move on.
"What do I believe the Bible says about the term BORN AGAIN?" When we have Scriptures such as John 3:3-8, 1 Peter 1:22-23, 1 John 2:29, 1 John 5:1, & others in John's epistle, we can believe that this re-birth is wholly of God & not of man's doing or involvement; that re-birth is a spiritual birth, whereby God gives us a new spirit (His Spirit) Who always inclines us towards God & His Son; that God's Ministry to us can only be to our revived spirit in us and not to the flesh that has no desire after godly things. Therefore, we are to continue to crucify our flesh which lusts against the Holy Spirit ( Galatians 5:17) in us & distracts us from serving God acceptably & in fear. Therefore, by the Holy Spirit in us, we have become new creatures in Christ Jesus, reckoning ourselves to be dead unto sin but alive unto God through Jesus Christ. This re-birth must be the final Work of God in the sometimes lengthy course in a person's struggle dealing with conviction of sin, brokenness, humility, & cry for a Savior to save & redeem him. (continued on Page 2).
To add to my earlier comment and your statements regarding repentance and brokenness before God. I want to make it clear that there is no salvation without repentance from sin and a broken and contrite heart before God.
But this again is the work of God within us as He is drawing and saving us. It is not due to any inherent character within us.
I think that some of this may be seen as God is drawing us. But it will certainly be in evidence once God applies His Salvation to our life, in performing the MIRACLE of the New Birth, in giving the one whom He is saving a New Resurrected Soul, ie making them Born Again.
I do believe that God may DRAW those whom He saves in very individual and varied ways. This might be very quickly or very prolonged.
This is all very mysterious and we need to be very careful not to put our spin on God's process. But one thing is certain. All of this is God's work not our work in any sense as God works within us to will and to do of His good pleasure.
All of the glory for every aspect of our salvation belongs to God Alone. And we can take no credit whatsoever for any part of our salvation. Lest we become like the man of Numbers 15.
We should stand amazed that God would have saved us. And asking WHY ME? I deserve only Thy wrath and condemnation.
Praise God for so great Salvation!