"And thou saidst, I will surely do thee good, and make thy seed as the sand of the sea, which cannot be numbered for multitude."(32:12)
This sand points to triadic motif and consider this verse, "And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea," John's vision takes him spiritually among nations referred in Ch.11. "And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth./ And the temple of God was opened in heaven."(Re.11:18-19) The nations at the time of wrath are not what we have standing on mount Sion. (14:1)
In order to understand the first fruits we need to go back God's promise to Abraham. Faith is the key here. "And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be./And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness." (Ge.15:5-6) Abraham is set as the double for his Son Jesus Christ, "after our likeness." Abraham's faith is same as in Christ. So these saints are holy nation, "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;"(1 Pe.2:9) This nation is not of Abram nor is it from Jacob but heirs of promise. "And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness."
Abraham and Israel made two circles in which God gave both heavenly vision so God is in straight line of vision whether up or down or across. "It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth" promises his disciples,"and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen."(Matt.28:20; Is.40:22)
"And Abram went up out of Egypt, he, and his wife, and all that he had, and Lot with him, into the south." (Ge.13:1)
Abram is without a heir. At the end of making a circle his name is changed into Abraham. "but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee."(17:5)
Jacob similarly makes a similar circle but it runs across. As with Abraham his name is changed from Jacob to Israel. "Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel."(35:10)
From many nations Israel is associated with Jacob. Both Abraham and Israel stand as double for Jesus Christ who serves as the sign. Abraham heard the call (12:1) and when God tells Jacob "And God said unto Jacob, Arise, go up to Bethel, and dwell there: and make there an altar unto God." (35:1,7,15) Bethel is set in an altogether context. Bethel was earlier called Luz ; After Peniel incident seeing God face to face, Bethel acquires significance. God blesses Jacob to promise, "And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed." (28:14) The same promise conferred on Abraham is extended to him. (12:3). Also 13: 14-17 El-bethel signifies that God restores fellowship with Israel and no more his name shall be Jacob as was on his flight from Esau. So the house of God signified spiritual regeneration of Israel mentioned in vv.2-4
Nations are differentiated by triadic motives of dust, sand and stars. "thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth" (13:16) After the Mahanaim episode where angels of God met Jacob God promises still better than the quality of dust. "And thou saidst, I will surely do thee good, and make thy seed as the sand of the sea, which cannot be numbered for multitude."(32:12)
Thank you for your reply to what I wrote to SeanPaul a while ago. In that post I was speaking about using the term "whatever" as a response to what someone else says. If you were simply trying to put an ending to the discussion, then I'll accept that as your intention. You are right in that I do not know your heart, neither you mine.
I have found that often when someone use the term "Whatever" as a response they are doing so with the attitudes that I mentioned. I never said that your attitude was this way, but even so, I was encouraging others to consider what they have grown accustomed to using as responses to others in conversation. I did mention this in my post.
When I post in the way I did I was thinking of myself as well as anyone who would read it. I must also learn to be mindful of my words and responses, whether words or gestures or facial expressions. My point was that we can so easily sin in these ways and that we can examine ourselves before the Lord to see if we have done so. I did that after I posted and I hope you did too along with others on this forum. If you think I sinned because you thought I was judgmental, then I will take that to the Lord also.
I wish you well always, and I am glad to have you here to converse with. We are "iron sharpening iron" here and it is a good thing to do and receive from one another, keeping in mind that we are all blood-bought and being sanctified by the Holy Spirit daily. So we choose to love one another and be forbearing with each other also be willing to be exhorted and grow from that.
Have a good day, Momsage. We are sisters in Christ and not only do we speak words of encouragement and comradery to each other, but, biblically, we are to be willing to say things that are hard to say, but honest, in order that we can be used to help others grow in Christ. That is my approach.
"And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth./ And the evening and the morning were the fifth day." (Ge.1:22-23)
Upto v.21 what the everlasting covenant has laid out dealt with the seed that was in itself. The word was God and the heaven and earth seeded with the will of God. The life was in Jesus Christ and the quality of it was to bless life in whatever forms it took. "In him was life; and the life was the light of men"( John 1:4). Marine life and terrestrial life alike were to be blessed in the man created after our image and after our likeness. "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ." (Ep.1:3)
God gives man a body after the likeness of Man glory of which is different from other lifeforms. "All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds." Their glory is considered as one with the body God is pleased to give man. It is for this reason God laid own one fifth the value of it. "f a man shall steal an ox, or a sheep, and kill it, or sell it; he shall restore five oxen for an ox, and four sheep for a sheep."(Ex.22:1) The man and ox is considered as one since the beast is his livelihood. As a steward he represents the day Five as he is counted one with Christ in his glory. (1 Co.15:38-39).
Everlasting covenant blesses man as a steward so vv.28-31 is on account of ' wherein there is life,". These blessings once released is from everlasting to everlasting.
God is tagged as 1; Heaven as 2 and the day Three refers to the Son whose obedience gives the word a body. The grass , the herbs and the trees having seed in itself are triadic motives. In short "after our image " gives man a part of the FatherSon relationship; After our likeness refers to the Son whose obedeience to fulfill the will of the Father a visible image as the Son of man. He is set as a sign.
Ezekiel accordingly was "after our likeness". This point is brought out in Ez.3:1-2 where God gives the prophet a roll to eat."Son of man, eat that thou findest; eat this roll, and go speak unto the house of Israel./So I opened my mouth, and he caused me to eat that roll." He is a witness as Jesus Christ was. Inner man corresponds the true Light which God sent out. But how do we walk? "Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word./ With my whole heart have I sought thee:" (Ps.119:9-10) Where one is conscious of the seed within the only way of witnessing Godis to 'walk the talk'. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path." (Ps.119:105)
Triadic motives of the inner man,-the mouth, the heart and the belly ought to direct the feet. By fruits ye shall know the quality of inner man.
"And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good./And the evening and the morning were the fourth day."(1:18-19)
By abiding in the true vine the fruits we produce are ripened under the true Light. So man is not only after our image but also after our likeness." We are part of the two great lights set in heavenly places. We rule over the day and over the night since we have the light of the word within us guiding our paths and we are growing from glory to glory. This goes on from everlasting to everlasting. This is what the command number Four signifies.
Up and Down it is same as it is across since Jesus Christ is the same. (He. 13:8)
Adam showed he had free will and we live with its consequences. God did not tell a direct No since He had breathed into him to know the consequences- he has foreknowledge. 'The seed in itself' is what soul means. Man's ability to know the truth by the light of the word (Word which was God) makes his inner man. He has ability to know and it is evident in his sudden sense of shame at his nakedness.
God's commandment was, "And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:/ But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."(Ge.2:16-17)
Moses's exhortation: "
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:" (De.30:19)
Holiness of God sets free will but whosoever is from God does not sin, since 'be ye holy for I am holy' has been shown as doable by Jesus Christ
Job 12:16 With GOD is strength and wisdom: the DECEIVED and the DECEIVER are his.
Jeremiah 20:7 O LORD, thou hast DECEIVED me, and I am DECEIVED: thou art stronger than I, and hast prevailed: I am in derision daily, everyone mocketh me.
Ezekiel 14:9 And if the prophet be DECEIVED, when God have spoken a thing, I the Lord have DECEIVED that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand on him, and will destroy him from my people Israel.
Do we have free will; or, are we just and instrument in God's hand?
Thanks Brother Jesse for that added information. I also lean towards this whole Prophecy being given to John in one 'sitting', so to speak. Certainly, a huge volume of words, scenes, & (to him) quite peculiar 'animations' to receive (& record) all at once, which probably left him quite exhausted & perplexed at the end of it. Yet, I feel that it was necessary to be given all at once, lest he became distracted or even allow his mind to work through what he saw & heard, causing him to add his own 'flavor' to the vision & words. This helps us to appreciate even more, that what was given to us from the Mouth of our Lord to read & digest, should be received in all serious contemplation, expectation, & holy living. GBU.
I can assure you that in no way whatsoever do I consider you a liar or deceiver, so let's please put that to rest right now. I wish you would not have brought that post back up because it was a while back and if anyone that did not read the original discussion, they are going to think that the words you just sent in quotations were my words, and they were not my words, but yours. I do hope we can move away from that. But just so you know, I trust you to be an honest person. I am close to being done with Matthew and should begin posting on it soon.
I don't believe that Momsage was directing that to me. She is aware that I do not read the NIV, so sending me the history of it would be of no benefit to me. I know she has mentioned that she's not very good at posting yet, so maybe she meant to begin a new thread? I don't know if that's the case, but I don't think what she posted was intended for me personally.
As for Revelation 22:18-19, I am also in the camp of those who believe John is referring to the book of Revelation. Going back to Chapter 1 where John is told to write the things he saw. John got to see prophecy unfold (as it was happening, I believe) and he was told to write what he saw. He ends with the warning not to add to the prophecy of the book he wrote.
What's interesting to note is that in Revelation 1:3, it says, "Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand." Now here's something that I think is very important. The book of Revelation is called prophecy. Words is plural, but prophecy singular.
But this book is called prophecy. The book of Revelation is God's final prophecy, and final message to His church before He comes back. Revelation Chapter 22 says don't add to the prophecy of the book. It's the last book of the bible. That's why it is there. It is the Revelation of Jesus Christ. Just think about all these "Modern day Prophets" proclaiming that God gave them "new" prophecy. We're not to even go there!
I don't mind your picking through various parts of my comments to Jesse or anyone else, that's what this forum is all about. I understand what you are saying so I stand corrected and thank you. I just had it in mind as a warning for those who have published other versions of the bible that are not inspired by the Holy Spirit and can lead people away from the Lord. But I'm sure they must have left their handywork in Revelations so it still applies. God Bless :)
Hey Jesse: I know we have basically settled this issue but I was just browsing in some older posts and found this.
"You make a good point about people who use these versions not being true Christians and I agree with you for those you (typo, should be who) have been made to see the truth in this. If they ignore the warnings or just don't accept what is right in front of their eyes, then they will be held accountable, however, I do think that those who have not been made aware of the spiritual errors in these books they are innocent until they do know."
The reason I bring it up again is I want you to be totally sure that I am 100%, whole heartly not a liar or a deceiver. I don't believe in fibs or little white lies or anything like that, a lie is a lie, especially if you do it deceitfully. God Bless :)
Going to heaven is a common teaching, however lets examine what the scriptures actually say. First at Genesis 3:19 Adam was told he is returning to the dust. At Psalm 146:3-4 we are told what happens when man dies. We go to Ecclesiastes 9:1-3, 5-6, 10, 11 where we find out those who have passed are not conscious.
That is not the end of the matter however. Jesus promised a ressurectionat John 5:28-29
Thanks Momsage for that interesting read & I managed to pick through your various parts to get the complete message. I know that you're directing this to brother Jesse, but thought to highlight your reference to Revelation 22:18,19.
The reason that some (including me) believe that this reference applies only to the Book of Revelation is that this message from Jesus to His Church (& of course to others, if they choose to hear it or read from it), is His final message & no more would be sent from Him from that time on till the close of the ages. If there should be anyone who would claim to have received a message that amplifies or adds to this Book (of Revelation), then they would do themselves great harm. And let's face it, what more could be added to that final Judgement Day where all sinners having loved sin & refused to turn to their Creator are dealt with; as those who have cleaved to the Lamb of God in spite of everything coming against them, will enjoy eternal bliss with their God & Savior. This alone tells us that God's Plans & Purposes for Heaven & Earth are now ended. Could there be anymore after that? God only would know & we are not to use our brains or supposed heavenly revelations to further prop up or add to this Book.
As well, the Bible as we have it now, was not put together at the time of the apostles (they only had the OT writings), & the Churches received their apostolic letters (both Church-specific & circular). So, the warning in Revelation 22:18,19 to those who want to distort this Word from the Lord, would be doing so only to THIS Book & not to the Bible as a whole. Yet, we still remain responsible & answerable as to how we treat the rest of God's Word, both in our understanding & teaching to others, always open to God's Spirit to help us learn & apply it correctly. GBU.
I know this post was awhile ago but I just felt inclined to answer you. I could just say "whatever" to your extremely judgmental comments which would mean I don't agree with what you've said and don't feel the need to justify myself, but I won't. Sure I could have been a little more polite I suppose but I can't imagine all the poor souls headed for hell because they aren't as polite as they should be based on your beliefs. Just because you believe something is sin, doesn't make it so and you put to much drama on some of the things I say. You don't know what I am thinking when I say the things I say. Your judgmental comments are a sin according to the bible Matthew 7:1 but not according you, I guess. God Bless
"In 1955, businessman Howard Long was convinced of the need for a contemporary English translation of the Bible while sharing the gospel with a business associate. He was unhappy with the King James Version that he used to communicate the gospel and was frustrated with its archaic language. Mr. Young thought, "Everywhere I go, in Canada, the U. S., anywhere, there are people who would like to read their Bible to their children at night. And they don't have something the children can grasp." He shared the frustration with his pastor, Reverend Peter DeJong. Inspired by the need for a Bible in contemporary English, the two men petitioned their denomination, Christian Reformed Church (CRC). After initial rejection and deferral, the CRC endorsed a committee to investigate the issue in 1957. The NIV began with the formation of a small committee to study the value of producing a translation in the common language of the American people and a project of the National Association of Evangelicals in 1957. In 1964, a joint committee of representatives from the Christian Reformed Church and National Association of Evangelicals issued invitations to a translation conference, which met in August 1965 at Trinity Christian College in Palos Heights, Illinois, and made two key decisions. The first was that "a contemporary English translation of the Bible should be undertaken as a collegiate endeavor of evangelical scholars." The second was that a "continuing committee of fifteen" should be established to move the work forward. The "committee of fifteen" was ultimately named the Committee on Bible Translation (CBT), and the
'How Did The NIV Translation Philosophy Differ From Other Bible Translations Of The Time?
The New International Version (NIV) translation philosophy differed from other Bible translations of the time in several ways:
(I'm only listing one.)
Balancing Transparency and Clarity: The NIV pioneered a different approach by balancing transparency to the original text with clarity of meaning. This meant that the translation aimed to convey the original meaning of the text while also being easy to understand in contemporary English. (This might explain their use of different manuscripts but it really doesn't say clearly which original text were use. I did leave out some of the content of the articles I referenced. The original articles are available on " History of the NIV" and "How Did the NIV's Translation Philosophy Differ From Other Bible Translations of the Time" I use Brave as my search engine because it safer then Google and these are the articles that came up in my search. I hope this helps you understand that from the beginning their emphasis seems to be only to modernize the language. As I'm sure you know that Revelations 22: 18-20 says: "18) For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19) And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20) He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus." Some people believe this is just for the book of Revelations but that doesn't make sense to me. There are plenty of prophecies and plagues through out the whole bible. God is ending the Word and I believe he is referring to the whole Bible. I really feel for the authors of any of these revisions.
"In 1955, businessman Howard Long was convinced of the need for a contemporary English translation of the Bible while sharing the gospel with a business associate. He was unhappy with the King James Version that he used to communicate the gospel and was frustrated with its archaic language. Mr. Young thought, "Everywhere I go, in Canada, the U. S., anywhere, there are people who would like to read their Bible to their children at night. And they don't have something the children can grasp." He shared the frustration with his pastor, Reverend Peter DeJong. Inspired by the need for a Bible in contemporary English, the two men petitioned their denomination, Christian Reformed Church (CRC). After initial rejection and deferral, the CRC endorsed a committee to investigate the issue in 1957. The NIV began with the formation of a small committee to study the value of producing a translation in the common language of the American people and a project of the National Association of Evangelicals in 1957. In 1964, a joint committee of representatives from the Christian Reformed Church and National Association of Evangelicals issued invitations to a translation
which met in August 1965 at Trinity Christian College in Palos Heights, Illinois, and made two key decisions. The first was that "a contemporary English translation of the Bible should be undertaken as a collegiate endeavor of evangelical scholars." The second was that a "continuing committee of fifteen" should be established to move the work forward. The "committee of fifteen" was ultimately named the Committee on Bible Translation (CBT), and the "Contemporary English Translation" became the NIV. In 1967, the New York Bible Society (now called Biblica) took responsibility for the project and hired a team of 15 scholars from various Evangelical Christian denominations and from various countries. The initial "Committee on Bible Translation" consisted of Leslie Carlson, Edmund Clowney, Ralph Earle, Jr., Burton L. Goddard, R. Laird Harris, Earl S. Kalland, Kenneth Kantzer, Robert H. Mounce, Charles F. Pfeiffer, Charles Caldwell Ryrie, Francis R. Steele, John H. Stek, J. C. Wenger, Stephen W. Paine, and Marten Woudstra. The New Testament was released in 1973 and the full Bible in 1978.
Professor of New Testament Studies Rodney J. Decker wrote in the Themelios Journal review of the NIV 2011:............"If we are serious about making the word of God a vital tool in the lives of English-speaking Christians, then we must aim for a translation that communicates clearly in the language of the average English-speaking person. It is here that the NIV excels. It not only communicates the meaning of God's revelation accurately, (of which I sorely disagree.) but does so in English that is easily understood by a wide range of English speakers. It is as well-suited for expository preaching as it is for public reading and use in Bible classes and children's ministries.
'How Did The NIV Translation Philosophy Differ From Other Bible Translations Of The Time?
The New International Version (NIV) translation philosophy differed from other Bible translations of the time in several ways:
(I'm only listing one.)
Balancing Transparency and Clarity: The NIV pioneered a different approach by balancing transparency to the original text with clarity of meaning. This meant that the translation aimed to convey the original meaning of the text while also being easy to understand in contemporary English. (This might explain their use of different manuscripts but it really doesn't say clearly which original text were use. I did leave out some of the content of the articles I referenced. The original articles are available on " History of the NIV" and "How Did the NIV's Translation Philosophy Differ From Other Bible Translations of the Time" I use Brave as my search engine because it safer then Google and these are the articles that came up in my search. I hope this helps you understand that from the beginning their emphasis seems to be only to modernize the language. As I'm sure you know that Revelations 22: 18-20 says: "18) For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19) And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20) He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus." Some people believe this is just for the book of Revelations but that doesn't make sense to me. There are plenty of prophecies and plagues through out the whole bible. God is ending the Word and I believe he is referring to the whole Bible. I really feel for the authors of any of these revisions.
"And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day." (Ge.1:5)
What is a day where God is a Spirit and his kingdom is from everlasting to everlasting. "Thy kingdomisan everlasting kingdom, and thy dominionendureththroughout all generations." (Ps.145:13)
The Spirit uses tags in order to instruct man in order to focus on the Man . "For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell." (Col.1:19). The Spirit first gives us a context as to make the meaning clear. "Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:/Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son." (Col.1:12-13) The kingdom of the Father Son relation ship is an everlasting kingdom.
In Man the fulness of God has invested the inheritance of the saints in light. Separation of light from darkness (Ge.1:4) gives us additional knowledge of "the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ."(2 Co.4:6) This knowledge when understood leads us from glory to glory. (2 Co.3:18). So faith with works explains what it is to abide in Christ.
First day refers to God the Father.
"And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day." (1:8)
Heaven refers to the word of God revealing the glory of God from everlasting to everlasting. "His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof." (Ps.19:6,1). The word of God causes heat which we notice in the Emmaus incident. "And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?"( Luke 24:32)
"And the evening and the morning were the third day."(1:13)
God is tagged as 1 Heaven as 2 and day Three refers to the Son.
God bless.
That was very informative!
God bless.
"And thou saidst, I will surely do thee good, and make thy seed as the sand of the sea, which cannot be numbered for multitude."(32:12)
This sand points to triadic motif and consider this verse, "And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea," John's vision takes him spiritually among nations referred in Ch.11. "And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth./ And the temple of God was opened in heaven."(Re.11:18-19) The nations at the time of wrath are not what we have standing on mount Sion. (14:1)
In order to understand the first fruits we need to go back God's promise to Abraham. Faith is the key here. "And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be./And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness." (Ge.15:5-6) Abraham is set as the double for his Son Jesus Christ, "after our likeness." Abraham's faith is same as in Christ. So these saints are holy nation, "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;"(1 Pe.2:9) This nation is not of Abram nor is it from Jacob but heirs of promise. "And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness."
Abraham and Israel made two circles in which God gave both heavenly vision so God is in straight line of vision whether up or down or across. "It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth" promises his disciples,"and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen."(Matt.28:20; Is.40:22)
"And Abram went up out of Egypt, he, and his wife, and all that he had, and Lot with him, into the south." (Ge.13:1)
Abram is without a heir. At the end of making a circle his name is changed into Abraham. "but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee."(17:5)
Jacob similarly makes a similar circle but it runs across. As with Abraham his name is changed from Jacob to Israel. "Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel."(35:10)
From many nations Israel is associated with Jacob. Both Abraham and Israel stand as double for Jesus Christ who serves as the sign. Abraham heard the call (12:1) and when God tells Jacob "And God said unto Jacob, Arise, go up to Bethel, and dwell there: and make there an altar unto God." (35:1,7,15) Bethel is set in an altogether context. Bethel was earlier called Luz ; After Peniel incident seeing God face to face, Bethel acquires significance. God blesses Jacob to promise, "And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed." (28:14) The same promise conferred on Abraham is extended to him. (12:3). Also 13: 14-17 El-bethel signifies that God restores fellowship with Israel and no more his name shall be Jacob as was on his flight from Esau. So the house of God signified spiritual regeneration of Israel mentioned in vv.2-4
Nations are differentiated by triadic motives of dust, sand and stars. "thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth" (13:16) After the Mahanaim episode where angels of God met Jacob God promises still better than the quality of dust. "And thou saidst, I will surely do thee good, and make thy seed as the sand of the sea, which cannot be numbered for multitude."(32:12)
Thank you for your reply to what I wrote to SeanPaul a while ago. In that post I was speaking about using the term "whatever" as a response to what someone else says. If you were simply trying to put an ending to the discussion, then I'll accept that as your intention. You are right in that I do not know your heart, neither you mine.
I have found that often when someone use the term "Whatever" as a response they are doing so with the attitudes that I mentioned. I never said that your attitude was this way, but even so, I was encouraging others to consider what they have grown accustomed to using as responses to others in conversation. I did mention this in my post.
When I post in the way I did I was thinking of myself as well as anyone who would read it. I must also learn to be mindful of my words and responses, whether words or gestures or facial expressions. My point was that we can so easily sin in these ways and that we can examine ourselves before the Lord to see if we have done so. I did that after I posted and I hope you did too along with others on this forum. If you think I sinned because you thought I was judgmental, then I will take that to the Lord also.
I wish you well always, and I am glad to have you here to converse with. We are "iron sharpening iron" here and it is a good thing to do and receive from one another, keeping in mind that we are all blood-bought and being sanctified by the Holy Spirit daily. So we choose to love one another and be forbearing with each other also be willing to be exhorted and grow from that.
Have a good day, Momsage. We are sisters in Christ and not only do we speak words of encouragement and comradery to each other, but, biblically, we are to be willing to say things that are hard to say, but honest, in order that we can be used to help others grow in Christ. That is my approach.
"And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth./ And the evening and the morning were the fifth day." (Ge.1:22-23)
Upto v.21 what the everlasting covenant has laid out dealt with the seed that was in itself. The word was God and the heaven and earth seeded with the will of God. The life was in Jesus Christ and the quality of it was to bless life in whatever forms it took. "In him was life; and the life was the light of men"( John 1:4). Marine life and terrestrial life alike were to be blessed in the man created after our image and after our likeness. "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ." (Ep.1:3)
God gives man a body after the likeness of Man glory of which is different from other lifeforms. "All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds." Their glory is considered as one with the body God is pleased to give man. It is for this reason God laid own one fifth the value of it. "f a man shall steal an ox, or a sheep, and kill it, or sell it; he shall restore five oxen for an ox, and four sheep for a sheep."(Ex.22:1) The man and ox is considered as one since the beast is his livelihood. As a steward he represents the day Five as he is counted one with Christ in his glory. (1 Co.15:38-39).
Everlasting covenant blesses man as a steward so vv.28-31 is on account of ' wherein there is life,". These blessings once released is from everlasting to everlasting.
God is tagged as 1; Heaven as 2 and the day Three refers to the Son whose obedience gives the word a body. The grass , the herbs and the trees having seed in itself are triadic motives. In short "after our image " gives man a part of the FatherSon relationship; After our likeness refers to the Son whose obedeience to fulfill the will of the Father a visible image as the Son of man. He is set as a sign.
Ezekiel accordingly was "after our likeness". This point is brought out in Ez.3:1-2 where God gives the prophet a roll to eat."Son of man, eat that thou findest; eat this roll, and go speak unto the house of Israel./So I opened my mouth, and he caused me to eat that roll." He is a witness as Jesus Christ was. Inner man corresponds the true Light which God sent out. But how do we walk? "Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word./ With my whole heart have I sought thee:" (Ps.119:9-10) Where one is conscious of the seed within the only way of witnessing Godis to 'walk the talk'. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path." (Ps.119:105)
Triadic motives of the inner man,-the mouth, the heart and the belly ought to direct the feet. By fruits ye shall know the quality of inner man.
"And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good./And the evening and the morning were the fourth day."(1:18-19)
By abiding in the true vine the fruits we produce are ripened under the true Light. So man is not only after our image but also after our likeness." We are part of the two great lights set in heavenly places. We rule over the day and over the night since we have the light of the word within us guiding our paths and we are growing from glory to glory. This goes on from everlasting to everlasting. This is what the command number Four signifies.
Up and Down it is same as it is across since Jesus Christ is the same. (He. 13:8)
Adam showed he had free will and we live with its consequences. God did not tell a direct No since He had breathed into him to know the consequences- he has foreknowledge. 'The seed in itself' is what soul means. Man's ability to know the truth by the light of the word (Word which was God) makes his inner man. He has ability to know and it is evident in his sudden sense of shame at his nakedness.
God's commandment was, "And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:/ But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."(Ge.2:16-17)
Moses's exhortation: "
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:" (De.30:19)
Holiness of God sets free will but whosoever is from God does not sin, since 'be ye holy for I am holy' has been shown as doable by Jesus Christ
Jeremiah 20:7 O LORD, thou hast DECEIVED me, and I am DECEIVED: thou art stronger than I, and hast prevailed: I am in derision daily, everyone mocketh me.
Ezekiel 14:9 And if the prophet be DECEIVED, when God have spoken a thing, I the Lord have DECEIVED that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand on him, and will destroy him from my people Israel.
Do we have free will; or, are we just and instrument in God's hand?
God Bless You
I can assure you that in no way whatsoever do I consider you a liar or deceiver, so let's please put that to rest right now. I wish you would not have brought that post back up because it was a while back and if anyone that did not read the original discussion, they are going to think that the words you just sent in quotations were my words, and they were not my words, but yours. I do hope we can move away from that. But just so you know, I trust you to be an honest person. I am close to being done with Matthew and should begin posting on it soon.
God Bless!
I don't believe that Momsage was directing that to me. She is aware that I do not read the NIV, so sending me the history of it would be of no benefit to me. I know she has mentioned that she's not very good at posting yet, so maybe she meant to begin a new thread? I don't know if that's the case, but I don't think what she posted was intended for me personally.
As for Revelation 22:18-19, I am also in the camp of those who believe John is referring to the book of Revelation. Going back to Chapter 1 where John is told to write the things he saw. John got to see prophecy unfold (as it was happening, I believe) and he was told to write what he saw. He ends with the warning not to add to the prophecy of the book he wrote.
What's interesting to note is that in Revelation 1:3, it says, "Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand." Now here's something that I think is very important. The book of Revelation is called prophecy. Words is plural, but prophecy singular.
But this book is called prophecy. The book of Revelation is God's final prophecy, and final message to His church before He comes back. Revelation Chapter 22 says don't add to the prophecy of the book. It's the last book of the bible. That's why it is there. It is the Revelation of Jesus Christ. Just think about all these "Modern day Prophets" proclaiming that God gave them "new" prophecy. We're not to even go there!
God Bless!!!
I don't mind your picking through various parts of my comments to Jesse or anyone else, that's what this forum is all about. I understand what you are saying so I stand corrected and thank you. I just had it in mind as a warning for those who have published other versions of the bible that are not inspired by the Holy Spirit and can lead people away from the Lord. But I'm sure they must have left their handywork in Revelations so it still applies. God Bless :)
"You make a good point about people who use these versions not being true Christians and I agree with you for those you (typo, should be who) have been made to see the truth in this. If they ignore the warnings or just don't accept what is right in front of their eyes, then they will be held accountable, however, I do think that those who have not been made aware of the spiritual errors in these books they are innocent until they do know."
The reason I bring it up again is I want you to be totally sure that I am 100%, whole heartly not a liar or a deceiver. I don't believe in fibs or little white lies or anything like that, a lie is a lie, especially if you do it deceitfully. God Bless :)
That is not the end of the matter however. Jesus promised a ressurectionat John 5:28-29
The reason that some (including me) believe that this reference applies only to the Book of Revelation is that this message from Jesus to His Church (& of course to others, if they choose to hear it or read from it), is His final message & no more would be sent from Him from that time on till the close of the ages. If there should be anyone who would claim to have received a message that amplifies or adds to this Book (of Revelation), then they would do themselves great harm. And let's face it, what more could be added to that final Judgement Day where all sinners having loved sin & refused to turn to their Creator are dealt with; as those who have cleaved to the Lamb of God in spite of everything coming against them, will enjoy eternal bliss with their God & Savior. This alone tells us that God's Plans & Purposes for Heaven & Earth are now ended. Could there be anymore after that? God only would know & we are not to use our brains or supposed heavenly revelations to further prop up or add to this Book.
As well, the Bible as we have it now, was not put together at the time of the apostles (they only had the OT writings), & the Churches received their apostolic letters (both Church-specific & circular). So, the warning in Revelation 22:18,19 to those who want to distort this Word from the Lord, would be doing so only to THIS Book & not to the Bible as a whole. Yet, we still remain responsible & answerable as to how we treat the rest of God's Word, both in our understanding & teaching to others, always open to God's Spirit to help us learn & apply it correctly. GBU.
for anyone wanting to know
When a person is strong, with Pride,they are weak with Faith
when a person is strong in Faith , pride is weak and not needed
self Pride and Faith Do Not Mix...
Faith will march a person right into the gates of Heaven
Pride will hold them back
I know this post was awhile ago but I just felt inclined to answer you. I could just say "whatever" to your extremely judgmental comments which would mean I don't agree with what you've said and don't feel the need to justify myself, but I won't. Sure I could have been a little more polite I suppose but I can't imagine all the poor souls headed for hell because they aren't as polite as they should be based on your beliefs. Just because you believe something is sin, doesn't make it so and you put to much drama on some of the things I say. You don't know what I am thinking when I say the things I say. Your judgmental comments are a sin according to the bible Matthew 7:1 but not according you, I guess. God Bless
God Bless:)
Beginnings
"In 1955, businessman Howard Long was convinced of the need for a contemporary English translation of the Bible while sharing the gospel with a business associate. He was unhappy with the King James Version that he used to communicate the gospel and was frustrated with its archaic language. Mr. Young thought, "Everywhere I go, in Canada, the U. S., anywhere, there are people who would like to read their Bible to their children at night. And they don't have something the children can grasp." He shared the frustration with his pastor, Reverend Peter DeJong. Inspired by the need for a Bible in contemporary English, the two men petitioned their denomination, Christian Reformed Church (CRC). After initial rejection and deferral, the CRC endorsed a committee to investigate the issue in 1957. The NIV began with the formation of a small committee to study the value of producing a translation in the common language of the American people and a project of the National Association of Evangelicals in 1957. In 1964, a joint committee of representatives from the Christian Reformed Church and National Association of Evangelicals issued invitations to a translation conference, which met in August 1965 at Trinity Christian College in Palos Heights, Illinois, and made two key decisions. The first was that "a contemporary English translation of the Bible should be undertaken as a collegiate endeavor of evangelical scholars." The second was that a "continuing committee of fifteen" should be established to move the work forward. The "committee of fifteen" was ultimately named the Committee on Bible Translation (CBT), and the
"Part 3
'How Did The NIV Translation Philosophy Differ From Other Bible Translations Of The Time?
The New International Version (NIV) translation philosophy differed from other Bible translations of the time in several ways:
(I'm only listing one.)
Balancing Transparency and Clarity: The NIV pioneered a different approach by balancing transparency to the original text with clarity of meaning. This meant that the translation aimed to convey the original meaning of the text while also being easy to understand in contemporary English. (This might explain their use of different manuscripts but it really doesn't say clearly which original text were use. I did leave out some of the content of the articles I referenced. The original articles are available on " History of the NIV" and "How Did the NIV's Translation Philosophy Differ From Other Bible Translations of the Time" I use Brave as my search engine because it safer then Google and these are the articles that came up in my search. I hope this helps you understand that from the beginning their emphasis seems to be only to modernize the language. As I'm sure you know that Revelations 22: 18-20 says: "18) For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19) And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20) He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus." Some people believe this is just for the book of Revelations but that doesn't make sense to me. There are plenty of prophecies and plagues through out the whole bible. God is ending the Word and I believe he is referring to the whole Bible. I really feel for the authors of any of these revisions.
God Bless :)"
Beginnings
"In 1955, businessman Howard Long was convinced of the need for a contemporary English translation of the Bible while sharing the gospel with a business associate. He was unhappy with the King James Version that he used to communicate the gospel and was frustrated with its archaic language. Mr. Young thought, "Everywhere I go, in Canada, the U. S., anywhere, there are people who would like to read their Bible to their children at night. And they don't have something the children can grasp." He shared the frustration with his pastor, Reverend Peter DeJong. Inspired by the need for a Bible in contemporary English, the two men petitioned their denomination, Christian Reformed Church (CRC). After initial rejection and deferral, the CRC endorsed a committee to investigate the issue in 1957. The NIV began with the formation of a small committee to study the value of producing a translation in the common language of the American people and a project of the National Association of Evangelicals in 1957. In 1964, a joint committee of representatives from the Christian Reformed Church and National Association of Evangelicals issued invitations to a translation
which met in August 1965 at Trinity Christian College in Palos Heights, Illinois, and made two key decisions. The first was that "a contemporary English translation of the Bible should be undertaken as a collegiate endeavor of evangelical scholars." The second was that a "continuing committee of fifteen" should be established to move the work forward. The "committee of fifteen" was ultimately named the Committee on Bible Translation (CBT), and the "Contemporary English Translation" became the NIV. In 1967, the New York Bible Society (now called Biblica) took responsibility for the project and hired a team of 15 scholars from various Evangelical Christian denominations and from various countries. The initial "Committee on Bible Translation" consisted of Leslie Carlson, Edmund Clowney, Ralph Earle, Jr., Burton L. Goddard, R. Laird Harris, Earl S. Kalland, Kenneth Kantzer, Robert H. Mounce, Charles F. Pfeiffer, Charles Caldwell Ryrie, Francis R. Steele, John H. Stek, J. C. Wenger, Stephen W. Paine, and Marten Woudstra. The New Testament was released in 1973 and the full Bible in 1978.
Professor of New Testament Studies Rodney J. Decker wrote in the Themelios Journal review of the NIV 2011:............"If we are serious about making the word of God a vital tool in the lives of English-speaking Christians, then we must aim for a translation that communicates clearly in the language of the average English-speaking person. It is here that the NIV excels. It not only communicates the meaning of God's revelation accurately, (of which I sorely disagree.) but does so in English that is easily understood by a wide range of English speakers. It is as well-suited for expository preaching as it is for public reading and use in Bible classes and children's ministries.
'How Did The NIV Translation Philosophy Differ From Other Bible Translations Of The Time?
The New International Version (NIV) translation philosophy differed from other Bible translations of the time in several ways:
(I'm only listing one.)
Balancing Transparency and Clarity: The NIV pioneered a different approach by balancing transparency to the original text with clarity of meaning. This meant that the translation aimed to convey the original meaning of the text while also being easy to understand in contemporary English. (This might explain their use of different manuscripts but it really doesn't say clearly which original text were use. I did leave out some of the content of the articles I referenced. The original articles are available on " History of the NIV" and "How Did the NIV's Translation Philosophy Differ From Other Bible Translations of the Time" I use Brave as my search engine because it safer then Google and these are the articles that came up in my search. I hope this helps you understand that from the beginning their emphasis seems to be only to modernize the language. As I'm sure you know that Revelations 22: 18-20 says: "18) For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19) And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20) He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus." Some people believe this is just for the book of Revelations but that doesn't make sense to me. There are plenty of prophecies and plagues through out the whole bible. God is ending the Word and I believe he is referring to the whole Bible. I really feel for the authors of any of these revisions.
God Bless :)
"And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day." (Ge.1:5)
What is a day where God is a Spirit and his kingdom is from everlasting to everlasting. "Thy kingdomisan everlasting kingdom, and thy dominionendureththroughout all generations." (Ps.145:13)
The Spirit uses tags in order to instruct man in order to focus on the Man . "For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell." (Col.1:19). The Spirit first gives us a context as to make the meaning clear. "Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:/Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son." (Col.1:12-13) The kingdom of the Father Son relation ship is an everlasting kingdom.
In Man the fulness of God has invested the inheritance of the saints in light. Separation of light from darkness (Ge.1:4) gives us additional knowledge of "the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ."(2 Co.4:6) This knowledge when understood leads us from glory to glory. (2 Co.3:18). So faith with works explains what it is to abide in Christ.
First day refers to God the Father.
"And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day." (1:8)
Heaven refers to the word of God revealing the glory of God from everlasting to everlasting. "His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof." (Ps.19:6,1). The word of God causes heat which we notice in the Emmaus incident. "And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?"( Luke 24:32)
"And the evening and the morning were the third day."(1:13)
God is tagged as 1 Heaven as 2 and day Three refers to the Son.