Matthew 16:22 - Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
Literally from the Greek: Peter began to rebuke him saying, have mercy on you Lord, this shall never happen (Double Negative) to you. It would be equivalent to our English saying, "God have mercy on you for saying that!"
Matthew 16:23 - But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
Here it is literally: He turned, and He said to Peter get behind me, and that is an important word. Jesus will always emphasize that whether it's Satan, or people, or whoever it is. The proper position is behind Him, never alongside of Him, never in front of Him, always behind! He says, "Get behind me Satan."
He's speaking to the influence over Peter. It is Satan that says there will be no suffering in the flesh, and that there will be no hardship in the flesh. Satan is the great defender of the flesh. And through human reason and logic, he will oppose any doctrine that will present the fact that if you follow Jesus, there will be suffering and persecution.
Now the word offense is SCANDALIDZO which is where we get our English word scandal from. A SCANDALON in Greek was actually a rock that you tripped over. So, he says, Satan you are throwing a rock in my path to keep me from reaching my goal.
And the word "savourest" comes from the Greek word PHRONAY which means the frame of mind.
Please notice that Jesus is telling Peter that his frame of mind is not on the things of God, but on the things of man. When we hear about suffering how do we react? Peter's reaction was, and his frame of mind was to defend and protect the flesh. We need to be careful of that in the church. Our frame of mind must be on the things of God, not on the things of man, or the things of the flesh.
Richard, I will pray for your involvement in the prayer group. May God make it fruitful to all who need prayer.
As to this discussion. My emotional side tends to resist that God only saves those who He draws to Jesus, having elected them to salvation in His Son. But as I have been studying the doctrine of the depravity of mankind, I know that no one can turn to God without His drawing us by grace. My rational side is fine with what Romans 9 says, since I know that God is far more holy than we tend to think and if we knew how far apart He is in His holiness from our sinfulness, we would marvel that He has selected those who are to be vessels of His mercy, though they are all children of wrath prior to His work of grace in all He chooses. And I believe that Romans 9 does speak to this in that when the vessels of His mercy truly discover the great work He has done in them and that without it they would be like those who remain vessels of His wrath, we will praise Him, glorify Him, and thank Him endlessly.
I look forward to more discussions on the aspects of Calvinism (which is Augustinianism in many ways) as doing so gives us all better clarity on what the Scriptures actually teach on the topics I mentioned to Chris. I am not ready to dive into the depravity doctrine yet. I want to finish up the posts on the attributes of God. My next one is that He is transcendent. Probably will post on that tomorrow if I have time.
The cabinets are going into our kitchen this week so I have to "supervise" so that both the worker and I are thinking the same as to the layout. Also, the electricians come tomorrow to install the can lighting and connect outlets in the wired boxes.
And on top of all this, our little grandbaby takes up a lot of time as Mom is struggling some to keep up with the care. Grandpa and I spend a lot of time with her between feedings and naps.
Blessings to you Richard. Appreciate your input here and the way we can discuss serious matters between us freely
I have decided to post this in general comments because so many people have been responding to my discussions on Calvinism that I can't keep track of who I am posting to. I keep getting them mixed up. The discussions are on my beliefs against anything of Calvinistic teachings but especially their belief that: "predestination refers to God's eternal and unchangeable decree that determines the salvation of some individuals and the damnation of others. That individuals are still responsible for their choices and actions. At the same time, Calvinists also teach that God has predestined others to damnation, rejecting them and leaving them to their sinful nature. This reprobation is not a result of God actively causing their sin, but rather a passive decision to not intervene or save them." *
In other words, no free will.
Unless I am misunderstanding the last sentence, my God, the true one which is taught in the KJB, would not be unfair and cruel as to create souls He intends to throw in hell when their life is over without any conviction of the Holy Spirit to respond to. To decide they are reprobate before they are born, to me is unfair and cruel.
I have asked, in my discussions, several times for a straight forward answer of yes you believe this teaching or no you don't but none of them so far want to answer yes or no. They give me scriptures of which they want me to accept their interpretation, which I don't, and a lot of talk about things but no yes or no answers.
I will do a future post on what I believe the scripture means about predestination. But I can't see myself believing in the God the Calvinists believe in. A God that creates a soul ahead of birth to be a reprobate with no love or communications from him and be tossed into hell when that life is over.
I would like to say that these discussions are NOT quibbling which means: a petty or carping criticism and I certainly wasn't trying to trap anyone with anger (I don't even know what that means). I am politely but in a straight forward way, raising objections to these teachings that when examined by scripture and the nature of a great, loving God are totally wrong teachings. John 3:16 God Bless :)
*Source is the Brave Search Engine: What Predestination mean according to the Calvinist's teachings?
I will certainly lift you up in prayer today. Paul battled inward sin, as we all do. Read Romans 7, especially the way he ends the chapter! Jesus has rescued us from the grip of sin! Even when we have to battle against the law of sin in us daily, we can have a heart as yours and Paul, who desire to do God's will and bring Him glory daily, but we find we still fail to live up to all that God wants of us. We are be sanctified daily by the power of the Holy Spirit in us who prompted the Apostle John to affirm and write: "Greater is He that is in you than He that is in the world". 1 JOHN 4:4
So we can have confidence in God and His declaration that we are His and have been transferred from the dominion of darkness into His kingdom of light which is the kingdom of Jesus, the Son of God and our Savior. Colossians 1:13. So don't be discouraged and look to Jesus always, for He is our righteousness and deliver from all that is evil.
Hi Jesse: Telling me or not telling me still makes me feel bad so perhaps you should tell me. But it is up to you.
Please don't apologize for taking the time you need to answer my postings. I am retired, so I can answer quickly but I know lot of posters work, etc and need time to answer.
"Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads."
The seal that the beast set on the world are different from the seal of the Living God. Of the latter God knows as chosen before the worlds began in his Son. "Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity."(2 Ti.3:19). This seal is set on the foundation stone laid in Zion.(Is.28:16) No other foundation can stand. When the Lamb opened the sixth seal "the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. " (6:14) Consequently "And the great dragon was cast out." (12:9)This is what made shakers and movers of the earth and men "hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;/And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb."(6:15-16)
The voice of the Lord has has the sign; when God sent forth his word, it is the word of his power with which the Son upholds the worlds. So the Gospel has its sign. The disciples did not chose Jesus but he did. The number 12 has nothing to do with Israel but the Son. This lesson is what the dream of Joseph teaches us. He is set down as the double for the Son. His parents chided him for it. "Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?"(Ge.37:10). Sheaf of Joseph signified Jesus Christ the bread from heaven. It is thus God earmarked Joseph 'in our image and after our likeness." Gospel is tagged by 12 and the endtimes is marked by 12x12x1000. Seal of God cannot be on Ruben who defiled his father's bed. In similar vein Israel's blessings lays bare the wickedness of Joseph's brethren.
For some reason, parts 19 & 26 did not post. Thank you so much for pointing that out as I probably would not have caught it. What I have been doing is typing the things I find into a Word document for each book, and once I finish the book I'm studying, then I start posting the differences I see on that particular book. I will post those 2 parts later today. Again, thanks for catching that!
The four winds signify the events on the earth are set in motion by God, "For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire." (Is.66:15) We have another instance, and whirlwind presages no good for ungodly nations, "behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea./And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another." (Dan.7:2-3). The ten kings in Re.17:12 are of one mind with the beast. They have their one hour with him. Grace period is in harmony with the Word become flesh. It is brought by another angel, mark you, he comes ascending as with the angel below the great River Euphrates, "ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God."
"Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates./And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men."(Re.9:14-15) The Spirit is spot on to correspond the sixth seal with the sixth angel with the trumpet. The command likewise come from "a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God," (9:12) The voice is the word of God and the number Four has the same meaning as four winds. Also notice the four angels are preset 'for an hour' (9:15). God know who are His and knows how to keep them from all harm. So the grace period is directly associated with Jesus Christ. "For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ." ( John 1:14) These four angel are fellow servants serving His saints on the earth.
The number 12 signifies Gospel. The four and twenty elders are set down as memorial before the throne. (3x8=24) The number indicate the lower parts where the Spirit of Christ preached to the souls in prison. Heaven earth and lower parts hold as one in his Son.
Also please answer my question: Why did the Holy Ghost stop with just inspiring the pure ancient writings and not carry it forward to an English translation; the KJB?
I'm in a constant battle with "hidden" sin. It's like being tortured. I do the things I don't want to do and don't do the things I should/want to do. There are times when I think death would be better than sinning against my God. I know I break His heart when I sin and I don't want to do that. There is so much shame. I pray for a miracle to be healed from lust and selfishness. It's a vicious cycle - I'm wrong, sinful, but I can clearly see I haven't truly repented. I don't want to lose my family to something so meaningless (in this life or the next).
God help me with His strength, His perspective, His grace, and His mercy, and most of all, His forgiveness.
"And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth,"
'After these things' refer to the judgment of God on man who refused to believe in his Son. Blessings were freely extended to man,"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love,"and those who neglected shall face the day of his wrath. The covenant set forth in first book of the Bible is basis on which blessedness of man sets heaven, the earth and under the earth on a single yardstick of Jesus Christ "all things were created by him, and for him:/And he is before all things, and by him all things consist." (Col.1:16-17)
The question, "Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?" is asked in heaven.(5:2) Each seal and loosing the seal thereof corresponds with the day consecutively recorded in the covenant. Opening the sixth seal records this event. "And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together;"(6:14).
Day of the Lord, or of the Lamb are part of the 'now' in the day of Salvation. The saints redeemed from the earth are saved and are set in heavenly places upon him these events do not apply. Before we go further we are looking the time lapse in terms of hour. The space of half an hour is distinct from the day of salvation. We are looking at the space between opening of the sixth and the seventh seal before the great tribulation that must occur. "And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour."
The number Four and 12 are set by the Holy Spirit to indicate nations or cardinal directions but the eternal word of God and the gospel respectively.
We all have inside us, a sinful nature from the first Adam, we also have a conscience, the knowledge of good and evil, and the knowledge of God. We first see this when Adam and Eve hid themselves because they were naked. We see some go so far into the darkness that their conscience can be seared, the conscience no longer tells them good from evil, 1 Timothy 4:2. There is a point where God turns them over to a reprobate mind, Romans 1:28-32.
I believe there will be those who enter eternity who have never heard the gospel, and those who lived before Jesus first came because we have a loving and just God.
Romans 2:11-16 For there is no respect of persons with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) 16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
My understanding is this will happen at the great white throne judgment, Revelation 20:11-15, in this it says, "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire". If some were not found in the Book of Life means some were found in it. I know many may not agree but if we consider verses like Daniel 12:2Matthew 25:31-46John 5:28-29 to me these also point to this white throne judgment.
I am sure our loving and just God communicates with those who have not had a chance to read or hear Scripture, I believe the blood of Christ will cover them as well.
Let Us Pray For Police Man, & Women, & Keep Each Family Safe, In The In Jesus Christ I Pray Amen . lets pray for our doctors and nurses, And Care Giver.. In Jesus Christ Name I Pray. Amen.... Pray for all those who are fighting cancer.
Father God, we humbly pray for all those who are fighting cancer. Give them the hope and courage they need each day. Comfort them in their pain and bless them with healing. Strengthen their family, and caregivers. Pray for every one who has Stage 4 Lung Cancer, & Heart Cancer. . In Jesus Christ Name I Pray. Amen... PRAYERS TO HEAL AND DESTROY DIABETES. & heart disease. &
stroke, & Cancer. Pray for the Doctors, & Care keep, & The Leukemiahris,& Coronavirus, & t n Name Of Jesus Pray, Pray for every one who wake up hurting, every day. In The Body. Top Of there Head all the way down to there toes & Heels. & God Please Heal Every One Health. Pray For Every One Who Legs, & Foot who Foot & Legs, Who People Sting Foot And toe that burn and hurt, & Pray For Burn & Puff Up & Hurt, In Jesus Christ Name I Pray, & Pray For The Dr, & Nurse. & Police & Fire Fighter. & All Care Keeper, & ERM, & USA Troops, In Jesus Christ Name, & Blessing & Peace yo The Jews In Jesus Christ Name I Pray, Amen.
I am going to try to go to a more local but charismatic prayer group in an international church tomorrow night. Pray for wisdom and discernment.
As to this subject the intended recipient of it is very likely to react as I suggested since I've seen that sort of thing before; if not with her others. I don't want to sound presumptuous or predict reactions so pray about that also. Nonetheless these type things have proven to be dead ends as to discussion when emotions take over and we can't try to be Bereans or comprehend the ways of God. Again; many who would say they believe in the TULIP concepts can be arrogant. In answering these questions scripturally I am afraid the idea is that I have to be bigoted to conceive of God this way. I have appealed to even Judas Iscariot clearly predicted to be the son of perdition (first one then Antichrist being next). Jesus gave him the sop which was the highly sought after symbol of esteem for a friend; as well as the fact that the Psalms showed how a trusted friend would betray the Messiah. Truth be told our niceness can't save the nicest person in the world to the meanest without the Lord intervening and working on men's hearts.
However this works out; fundamentally man only understands how vile his state is by seeing the holiness of God. When the Spirit moves on a man there is the fear of the Lord and the world by and large resists. It should be clear the lack of persecution at least in most mega churches as well as others is due to the fact that somehow the Spirit is being quenched; either with dumbed down doctrines; a lack of emphasis on repentance and a lack of submission love and obedience of His commandments which is needed to be a true disciple of Christ. Such Spirit filled servants are feared and avoided because the conviction level is high and the enemy is threatened. Unless we know we are at war we become politically correct in regard to Satan; not treating him as an enemy we fight ( Ephesians 6)
The nation of Israel gave Imperial Rome their mind when they brought Jesus before the governor. "But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar." ( John 19:15). It is is to this Jesus referred, 'this is your hour of darkness."
This hour associates with Israel while the day is decreed for the Son. Along this day several kings shall rise and Israel's hour with them merely paves the way for judgment. "These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast./These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.(17:13-14).
The woman who was taken on the eagle's wings to a place in the wilderness prepared of God shall redeem as mentioned in Re.7:4-8 by stepping into the breach as Jesus did. The Spirit clues us early on with the example of Seth. Jesus as the intercessor before his advent and also after his resurrection. Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today and forever. (He.13:8) The twelve tribes have given over to the Gospel of Christ in terms of grace and truth. 144,000 with the Lamb on Mount Sion and these 144,000 reveal grace and truth which came by Jesus Christ. Moses gave the law which was inadequate as this body witnesses.
The woman in the wilderness (17:3) is set for perdition. "So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns."
"For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled."
The number Ten is set by the Holy Spirit to indicate Satan is under judgment. His curse on the serpent is a clue to us that Satan is similarly under judgment and the necessity of the Son who shall manifest in due time was to uphold the law that is forever settled in the heavens. "Between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel." (Ge.3:15). God allowed Adam a free will but was for him to exercise or obey God's commandment. The enmity was purely consequences of his disobedience. God is similarly aware of the nation of Israel and the true state of their heart. The Decalogue was for them to redeem themselves from the curse of the law of sin. God's counsel,"If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door.(Ge.4:7). Moses exhorted them"And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might./And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart." (De.6:5-6). "But they went a whoring after other gods."(Ju.2:17). It is thus Israel has become Babylon. She has rejected God her husband, "How doth the city sit solitary, that was full of people! how is she become as a widow!"(Lam.1:1)
The angel asks, St John, "Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns." The dragon also has the seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns. (12:3)
He has given the beast "his power, and his seat, and great authority." While the dragon's 7 crowns point to his authority is derived from spiritual darkness is heavenly places the beast has merely temporal powers. "And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet;"
Hi Chris: All I can say is, of course, God already knows who will be in paradise with Him and who will not be because of their free will to choose Christ or not. My issue is with the cruel teachings of Calvinism. God Bless :)
Plagues that visited Egypt primarily owes to sin. "I am the Lord that healeth thee, said the Lord. After rendering the waters of Marah sweet by God declares his holiness. "And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the Lord thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the Lord that healeth thee." Judgment upon Egypt was as much as a lesson for the nation of Israel. Plagues are what sin released which knows no geographical boundaries anymore than any nation might by sheer will of their might keep them out of its borders. Holiness of God has sent the word, and as the familiar Psalm quote says,"He sent his word, and healed them, and delivered them from their destructions."(Ps107:20), This is established forever as a statute in the heavens. So the Israelites and the Gentiles are free to avail of the divine promise. It is conditional. 1) diligently heed the word, the voice of God 2) Do that which is right in His sight. 3) faith with works-led by the Spirit so we submit to His righteousness .
The key text tells that Israel would have none of it. "How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow." The same idea we have "How doth the city sit solitary, that was full of people! how is she become as a widow!"(La.1:1-2) Heart of Israel was not right before God so she is qualified as reprobate silver.
Her judgment was counted in hour while what the Son has promised is 'now is the day of Salvation.When we received him in faith we have been placed in heavenly places safe from harm as long as we abide in him.
Hello Momsage. If I might throw in my understanding to your first question to Richard (i.e."Do you believe God chooses some souls before they are born to be the elect destined for heaven and those who are not the elect destined for Hell?"). I believe that Romans 8:29,30 answers this:
"For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified."
To loosely transliterate/expand: God KNOWS all things beforehand, including those who would come to Him in faith through His Son (heaven bound) & those who would refuse Him (hell bound).
In His Foreknowledge, he predestined those (in verse 30) to increasingly bear the Image of His Son, thereby Jesus being truly the firstborn of God's children (firstborn, both as a forerunner & Chief Cornerstone of His Church ( Hebrews 12:23; Ephesians 2:20), as well as being the firstborn where both Deity & Humanity coexist together ( 1 Timothy 3:16; 1 Corinthians 3:16).
In fulfilment of His Predestination Plan to one day have those of His creation to bear His Son's Image & be filled with His Spirit, God, IN HIS FOREKNOWLEDGE, called (those He chose) to hear & receive the Gospel message. And these very ones who received the Word with all readiness of mind ( Acts 17:11) & joy, God justified ('declared as righteous', having our slates cleaned, as it were). And to those He justified, he glorified (Gk. edoxasen: 'God brings Christians to a heavenly dignity and condition').
Since, we as believers evangelising with the Gospel, have no idea of those who will be saved & those who will not (known to God alone), the Gospel seeds are scattered/sown that all might hear, particularly those to whom the Spirit leads us to. Sadly, most will refuse, but we can rest assured that all known of God will be saved - none lost.
Where do my tears go to? The same place where my laughter goes to. God formed our hearts alike. Take comfort, vale of tears have peaks of delights in His word and in his presence,
I was thinking some of the same things you posted to Momsage.
I agree that Romans 9 is a difficult passage to accept for most of us. And, like you mentioned, God could have, in his holiness, purity, sinlessness and justice willed that NO ONE would be saved and all sinners would be judged to the lake of fire as He has determined for Satan and the angels that sinned with him. But we know that His decision to save a selected people for salvation to live forever in His presence, forgiven of all their sins and made righteous through His Son. Just as some question how a loving, merciful God could predestine some and leave others to be condemned, we could say "How can a perfectly sinless, holy, pure, and just God forgive anyone's sins and gift them with salvation."
Or we can say, "If God is loving and merciful then He should save every person to be fair and just." But we know that that is not true.
The answers to these queries are deeply rooted in God's perfect wisdom, will, purpose, and that His ways are higher than ours, His thoughts are not our thoughts, as Isaiah said. We can, however, read what Romans 9 says and believe that God actually selected Abel over Cain, Shem's lineage over Ham's, Abraham over his brothers, Isaac over Ishmael, Jacob over Esau, Joseph over his other brothers, Moses over other Levites, to be set apart for His purpose and by His grace given favor, mercy, and blessing.
I believe that if God has indeed predestined some to be saved without any merit on their part and leaves the rest of humanity to continue in sin and be condemned to the lake of fire, then that is His sovereign choice to do so. It does not diminish His love or mercy at all, nor is He unfair. He is the one who decides what is good, morally right, and just. We are not to question His ways, but believe that He is right in all of His ways, choices, and actions.
It is hard at times to submit our thoughts, desires, and emotions to God when He does not choose all.
Dear Mike ,i just now prayed for you Brother,i pray the Lord will intercede for you to find a good independent baptist church,and the hospital and for a good Bible believing family.i will pray for you this week .
Matthew 16:22 - Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
Literally from the Greek: Peter began to rebuke him saying, have mercy on you Lord, this shall never happen (Double Negative) to you. It would be equivalent to our English saying, "God have mercy on you for saying that!"
Matthew 16:23 - But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
Here it is literally: He turned, and He said to Peter get behind me, and that is an important word. Jesus will always emphasize that whether it's Satan, or people, or whoever it is. The proper position is behind Him, never alongside of Him, never in front of Him, always behind! He says, "Get behind me Satan."
He's speaking to the influence over Peter. It is Satan that says there will be no suffering in the flesh, and that there will be no hardship in the flesh. Satan is the great defender of the flesh. And through human reason and logic, he will oppose any doctrine that will present the fact that if you follow Jesus, there will be suffering and persecution.
Now the word offense is SCANDALIDZO which is where we get our English word scandal from. A SCANDALON in Greek was actually a rock that you tripped over. So, he says, Satan you are throwing a rock in my path to keep me from reaching my goal.
And the word "savourest" comes from the Greek word PHRONAY which means the frame of mind.
Please notice that Jesus is telling Peter that his frame of mind is not on the things of God, but on the things of man. When we hear about suffering how do we react? Peter's reaction was, and his frame of mind was to defend and protect the flesh. We need to be careful of that in the church. Our frame of mind must be on the things of God, not on the things of man, or the things of the flesh.
I thought maybe I was overlooking something.
Thanks and God bless.
As to this discussion. My emotional side tends to resist that God only saves those who He draws to Jesus, having elected them to salvation in His Son. But as I have been studying the doctrine of the depravity of mankind, I know that no one can turn to God without His drawing us by grace. My rational side is fine with what Romans 9 says, since I know that God is far more holy than we tend to think and if we knew how far apart He is in His holiness from our sinfulness, we would marvel that He has selected those who are to be vessels of His mercy, though they are all children of wrath prior to His work of grace in all He chooses. And I believe that Romans 9 does speak to this in that when the vessels of His mercy truly discover the great work He has done in them and that without it they would be like those who remain vessels of His wrath, we will praise Him, glorify Him, and thank Him endlessly.
I look forward to more discussions on the aspects of Calvinism (which is Augustinianism in many ways) as doing so gives us all better clarity on what the Scriptures actually teach on the topics I mentioned to Chris. I am not ready to dive into the depravity doctrine yet. I want to finish up the posts on the attributes of God. My next one is that He is transcendent. Probably will post on that tomorrow if I have time.
The cabinets are going into our kitchen this week so I have to "supervise" so that both the worker and I are thinking the same as to the layout. Also, the electricians come tomorrow to install the can lighting and connect outlets in the wired boxes.
And on top of all this, our little grandbaby takes up a lot of time as Mom is struggling some to keep up with the care. Grandpa and I spend a lot of time with her between feedings and naps.
Blessings to you Richard. Appreciate your input here and the way we can discuss serious matters between us freely
I have decided to post this in general comments because so many people have been responding to my discussions on Calvinism that I can't keep track of who I am posting to. I keep getting them mixed up. The discussions are on my beliefs against anything of Calvinistic teachings but especially their belief that: "predestination refers to God's eternal and unchangeable decree that determines the salvation of some individuals and the damnation of others. That individuals are still responsible for their choices and actions. At the same time, Calvinists also teach that God has predestined others to damnation, rejecting them and leaving them to their sinful nature. This reprobation is not a result of God actively causing their sin, but rather a passive decision to not intervene or save them." *
In other words, no free will.
Unless I am misunderstanding the last sentence, my God, the true one which is taught in the KJB, would not be unfair and cruel as to create souls He intends to throw in hell when their life is over without any conviction of the Holy Spirit to respond to. To decide they are reprobate before they are born, to me is unfair and cruel.
I will do a future post on what I believe the scripture means about predestination. But I can't see myself believing in the God the Calvinists believe in. A God that creates a soul ahead of birth to be a reprobate with no love or communications from him and be tossed into hell when that life is over.
I would like to say that these discussions are NOT quibbling which means: a petty or carping criticism and I certainly wasn't trying to trap anyone with anger (I don't even know what that means). I am politely but in a straight forward way, raising objections to these teachings that when examined by scripture and the nature of a great, loving God are totally wrong teachings. John 3:16 God Bless :)
*Source is the Brave Search Engine: What Predestination mean according to the Calvinist's teachings?
I will certainly lift you up in prayer today. Paul battled inward sin, as we all do. Read Romans 7, especially the way he ends the chapter! Jesus has rescued us from the grip of sin! Even when we have to battle against the law of sin in us daily, we can have a heart as yours and Paul, who desire to do God's will and bring Him glory daily, but we find we still fail to live up to all that God wants of us. We are be sanctified daily by the power of the Holy Spirit in us who prompted the Apostle John to affirm and write: "Greater is He that is in you than He that is in the world". 1 JOHN 4:4
So we can have confidence in God and His declaration that we are His and have been transferred from the dominion of darkness into His kingdom of light which is the kingdom of Jesus, the Son of God and our Savior. Colossians 1:13. So don't be discouraged and look to Jesus always, for He is our righteousness and deliver from all that is evil.
Please don't apologize for taking the time you need to answer my postings. I am retired, so I can answer quickly but I know lot of posters work, etc and need time to answer.
God Bless :)
"Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads."
The seal that the beast set on the world are different from the seal of the Living God. Of the latter God knows as chosen before the worlds began in his Son. "Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity."(2 Ti.3:19). This seal is set on the foundation stone laid in Zion.(Is.28:16) No other foundation can stand. When the Lamb opened the sixth seal "the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. " (6:14) Consequently "And the great dragon was cast out." (12:9)This is what made shakers and movers of the earth and men "hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;/And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb."(6:15-16)
The voice of the Lord has has the sign; when God sent forth his word, it is the word of his power with which the Son upholds the worlds. So the Gospel has its sign. The disciples did not chose Jesus but he did. The number 12 has nothing to do with Israel but the Son. This lesson is what the dream of Joseph teaches us. He is set down as the double for the Son. His parents chided him for it. "Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?"(Ge.37:10). Sheaf of Joseph signified Jesus Christ the bread from heaven. It is thus God earmarked Joseph 'in our image and after our likeness." Gospel is tagged by 12 and the endtimes is marked by 12x12x1000. Seal of God cannot be on Ruben who defiled his father's bed. In similar vein Israel's blessings lays bare the wickedness of Joseph's brethren.
For some reason, parts 19 & 26 did not post. Thank you so much for pointing that out as I probably would not have caught it. What I have been doing is typing the things I find into a Word document for each book, and once I finish the book I'm studying, then I start posting the differences I see on that particular book. I will post those 2 parts later today. Again, thanks for catching that!
God Bless!!!
The four winds signify the events on the earth are set in motion by God, "For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire." (Is.66:15) We have another instance, and whirlwind presages no good for ungodly nations, "behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea./And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another." (Dan.7:2-3). The ten kings in Re.17:12 are of one mind with the beast. They have their one hour with him. Grace period is in harmony with the Word become flesh. It is brought by another angel, mark you, he comes ascending as with the angel below the great River Euphrates, "ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God."
"Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates./And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men."(Re.9:14-15) The Spirit is spot on to correspond the sixth seal with the sixth angel with the trumpet. The command likewise come from "a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God," (9:12) The voice is the word of God and the number Four has the same meaning as four winds. Also notice the four angels are preset 'for an hour' (9:15). God know who are His and knows how to keep them from all harm. So the grace period is directly associated with Jesus Christ. "For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ." ( John 1:14) These four angel are fellow servants serving His saints on the earth.
The number 12 signifies Gospel. The four and twenty elders are set down as memorial before the throne. (3x8=24) The number indicate the lower parts where the Spirit of Christ preached to the souls in prison. Heaven earth and lower parts hold as one in his Son.
God help me with His strength, His perspective, His grace, and His mercy, and most of all, His forgiveness.
-Rich
"And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth,"
'After these things' refer to the judgment of God on man who refused to believe in his Son. Blessings were freely extended to man,"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love,"and those who neglected shall face the day of his wrath. The covenant set forth in first book of the Bible is basis on which blessedness of man sets heaven, the earth and under the earth on a single yardstick of Jesus Christ "all things were created by him, and for him:/And he is before all things, and by him all things consist." (Col.1:16-17)
The question, "Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?" is asked in heaven.(5:2) Each seal and loosing the seal thereof corresponds with the day consecutively recorded in the covenant. Opening the sixth seal records this event. "And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together;"(6:14).
Day of the Lord, or of the Lamb are part of the 'now' in the day of Salvation. The saints redeemed from the earth are saved and are set in heavenly places upon him these events do not apply. Before we go further we are looking the time lapse in terms of hour. The space of half an hour is distinct from the day of salvation. We are looking at the space between opening of the sixth and the seventh seal before the great tribulation that must occur. "And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour."
The number Four and 12 are set by the Holy Spirit to indicate nations or cardinal directions but the eternal word of God and the gospel respectively.
As S Spencer said we may not know for sure.
We all have inside us, a sinful nature from the first Adam, we also have a conscience, the knowledge of good and evil, and the knowledge of God. We first see this when Adam and Eve hid themselves because they were naked. We see some go so far into the darkness that their conscience can be seared, the conscience no longer tells them good from evil, 1 Timothy 4:2. There is a point where God turns them over to a reprobate mind, Romans 1:28-32.
I believe there will be those who enter eternity who have never heard the gospel, and those who lived before Jesus first came because we have a loving and just God.
Romans 2:11-16 For there is no respect of persons with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) 16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
My understanding is this will happen at the great white throne judgment, Revelation 20:11-15, in this it says, "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire". If some were not found in the Book of Life means some were found in it. I know many may not agree but if we consider verses like Daniel 12:2 Matthew 25:31-46 John 5:28-29 to me these also point to this white throne judgment.
I am sure our loving and just God communicates with those who have not had a chance to read or hear Scripture, I believe the blood of Christ will cover them as well.
God bless,
RLW
Father God, we humbly pray for all those who are fighting cancer. Give them the hope and courage they need each day. Comfort them in their pain and bless them with healing. Strengthen their family, and caregivers. Pray for every one who has Stage 4 Lung Cancer, & Heart Cancer. . In Jesus Christ Name I Pray. Amen... PRAYERS TO HEAL AND DESTROY DIABETES. & heart disease. &
stroke, & Cancer. Pray for the Doctors, & Care keep, & The Leukemiahris,& Coronavirus, & t n Name Of Jesus Pray, Pray for every one who wake up hurting, every day. In The Body. Top Of there Head all the way down to there toes & Heels. & God Please Heal Every One Health. Pray For Every One Who Legs, & Foot who Foot & Legs, Who People Sting Foot And toe that burn and hurt, & Pray For Burn & Puff Up & Hurt, In Jesus Christ Name I Pray, & Pray For The Dr, & Nurse. & Police & Fire Fighter. & All Care Keeper, & ERM, & USA Troops, In Jesus Christ Name, & Blessing & Peace yo The Jews In Jesus Christ Name I Pray, Amen.
Job 1:10 Psalm 91:4,5
Zechariah 2:5 Psalm 91:8-11
Psalm 34:7 Psalm 91:14-16
Psalm 91:1,2
As to this subject the intended recipient of it is very likely to react as I suggested since I've seen that sort of thing before; if not with her others. I don't want to sound presumptuous or predict reactions so pray about that also. Nonetheless these type things have proven to be dead ends as to discussion when emotions take over and we can't try to be Bereans or comprehend the ways of God. Again; many who would say they believe in the TULIP concepts can be arrogant. In answering these questions scripturally I am afraid the idea is that I have to be bigoted to conceive of God this way. I have appealed to even Judas Iscariot clearly predicted to be the son of perdition (first one then Antichrist being next). Jesus gave him the sop which was the highly sought after symbol of esteem for a friend; as well as the fact that the Psalms showed how a trusted friend would betray the Messiah. Truth be told our niceness can't save the nicest person in the world to the meanest without the Lord intervening and working on men's hearts.
However this works out; fundamentally man only understands how vile his state is by seeing the holiness of God. When the Spirit moves on a man there is the fear of the Lord and the world by and large resists. It should be clear the lack of persecution at least in most mega churches as well as others is due to the fact that somehow the Spirit is being quenched; either with dumbed down doctrines; a lack of emphasis on repentance and a lack of submission love and obedience of His commandments which is needed to be a true disciple of Christ. Such Spirit filled servants are feared and avoided because the conviction level is high and the enemy is threatened. Unless we know we are at war we become politically correct in regard to Satan; not treating him as an enemy we fight ( Ephesians 6)
The nation of Israel gave Imperial Rome their mind when they brought Jesus before the governor. "But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar." ( John 19:15). It is is to this Jesus referred, 'this is your hour of darkness."
This hour associates with Israel while the day is decreed for the Son. Along this day several kings shall rise and Israel's hour with them merely paves the way for judgment. "These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast./These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.(17:13-14).
The woman who was taken on the eagle's wings to a place in the wilderness prepared of God shall redeem as mentioned in Re.7:4-8 by stepping into the breach as Jesus did. The Spirit clues us early on with the example of Seth. Jesus as the intercessor before his advent and also after his resurrection. Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today and forever. (He.13:8) The twelve tribes have given over to the Gospel of Christ in terms of grace and truth. 144,000 with the Lamb on Mount Sion and these 144,000 reveal grace and truth which came by Jesus Christ. Moses gave the law which was inadequate as this body witnesses.
The woman in the wilderness (17:3) is set for perdition. "So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns."
"For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled."
The number Ten is set by the Holy Spirit to indicate Satan is under judgment. His curse on the serpent is a clue to us that Satan is similarly under judgment and the necessity of the Son who shall manifest in due time was to uphold the law that is forever settled in the heavens. "Between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel." (Ge.3:15). God allowed Adam a free will but was for him to exercise or obey God's commandment. The enmity was purely consequences of his disobedience. God is similarly aware of the nation of Israel and the true state of their heart. The Decalogue was for them to redeem themselves from the curse of the law of sin. God's counsel,"If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door.(Ge.4:7). Moses exhorted them"And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might./And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart." (De.6:5-6). "But they went a whoring after other gods."(Ju.2:17). It is thus Israel has become Babylon. She has rejected God her husband, "How doth the city sit solitary, that was full of people! how is she become as a widow!"(Lam.1:1)
The angel asks, St John, "Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns." The dragon also has the seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns. (12:3)
He has given the beast "his power, and his seat, and great authority." While the dragon's 7 crowns point to his authority is derived from spiritual darkness is heavenly places the beast has merely temporal powers. "And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet;"
" Therefore shall her plagues come in one day"
Plagues that visited Egypt primarily owes to sin. "I am the Lord that healeth thee, said the Lord. After rendering the waters of Marah sweet by God declares his holiness. "And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the Lord thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the Lord that healeth thee." Judgment upon Egypt was as much as a lesson for the nation of Israel. Plagues are what sin released which knows no geographical boundaries anymore than any nation might by sheer will of their might keep them out of its borders. Holiness of God has sent the word, and as the familiar Psalm quote says,"He sent his word, and healed them, and delivered them from their destructions."(Ps107:20), This is established forever as a statute in the heavens. So the Israelites and the Gentiles are free to avail of the divine promise. It is conditional. 1) diligently heed the word, the voice of God 2) Do that which is right in His sight. 3) faith with works-led by the Spirit so we submit to His righteousness .
The key text tells that Israel would have none of it. "How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow." The same idea we have "How doth the city sit solitary, that was full of people! how is she become as a widow!"(La.1:1-2) Heart of Israel was not right before God so she is qualified as reprobate silver.
Her judgment was counted in hour while what the Son has promised is 'now is the day of Salvation.When we received him in faith we have been placed in heavenly places safe from harm as long as we abide in him.
"For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified."
To loosely transliterate/expand: God KNOWS all things beforehand, including those who would come to Him in faith through His Son (heaven bound) & those who would refuse Him (hell bound).
In His Foreknowledge, he predestined those (in verse 30) to increasingly bear the Image of His Son, thereby Jesus being truly the firstborn of God's children (firstborn, both as a forerunner & Chief Cornerstone of His Church ( Hebrews 12:23; Ephesians 2:20), as well as being the firstborn where both Deity & Humanity coexist together ( 1 Timothy 3:16; 1 Corinthians 3:16).
In fulfilment of His Predestination Plan to one day have those of His creation to bear His Son's Image & be filled with His Spirit, God, IN HIS FOREKNOWLEDGE, called (those He chose) to hear & receive the Gospel message. And these very ones who received the Word with all readiness of mind ( Acts 17:11) & joy, God justified ('declared as righteous', having our slates cleaned, as it were). And to those He justified, he glorified (Gk. edoxasen: 'God brings Christians to a heavenly dignity and condition').
Since, we as believers evangelising with the Gospel, have no idea of those who will be saved & those who will not (known to God alone), the Gospel seeds are scattered/sown that all might hear, particularly those to whom the Spirit leads us to. Sadly, most will refuse, but we can rest assured that all known of God will be saved - none lost.
Greetings,
Where do my tears go to? The same place where my laughter goes to. God formed our hearts alike. Take comfort, vale of tears have peaks of delights in His word and in his presence,
With Joy and peace in Him,
I was thinking some of the same things you posted to Momsage.
I agree that Romans 9 is a difficult passage to accept for most of us. And, like you mentioned, God could have, in his holiness, purity, sinlessness and justice willed that NO ONE would be saved and all sinners would be judged to the lake of fire as He has determined for Satan and the angels that sinned with him. But we know that His decision to save a selected people for salvation to live forever in His presence, forgiven of all their sins and made righteous through His Son. Just as some question how a loving, merciful God could predestine some and leave others to be condemned, we could say "How can a perfectly sinless, holy, pure, and just God forgive anyone's sins and gift them with salvation."
Or we can say, "If God is loving and merciful then He should save every person to be fair and just." But we know that that is not true.
The answers to these queries are deeply rooted in God's perfect wisdom, will, purpose, and that His ways are higher than ours, His thoughts are not our thoughts, as Isaiah said. We can, however, read what Romans 9 says and believe that God actually selected Abel over Cain, Shem's lineage over Ham's, Abraham over his brothers, Isaac over Ishmael, Jacob over Esau, Joseph over his other brothers, Moses over other Levites, to be set apart for His purpose and by His grace given favor, mercy, and blessing.
I believe that if God has indeed predestined some to be saved without any merit on their part and leaves the rest of humanity to continue in sin and be condemned to the lake of fire, then that is His sovereign choice to do so. It does not diminish His love or mercy at all, nor is He unfair. He is the one who decides what is good, morally right, and just. We are not to question His ways, but believe that He is right in all of His ways, choices, and actions.
It is hard at times to submit our thoughts, desires, and emotions to God when He does not choose all.
You have been having foot problems for a while. I will keep on praying for you and all of your needs.