"God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,/ Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son" What we read in the Book of Exodus illustrates this. Nevertheless the nation of Israel rehected his Son when he came into his own. Jesus speaks his 'woe to ye'' discourse in Matthew "There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out./ And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God."
In the day of Regeneration children of the kingdom shall judge the twelve tribes of Israel which were cast out into the outer darkness by Jesus. What is left on the earth the Gentiles and the Jews alike are part of a mixed race. There is no difference in Jesus Christ. It applies to those who are saved and they walk under the light of the Lamb. Re.21:24. The twelve tribes they shall be in eternity..
Ex.24:11 " Also they saw God, and did eat and drink."
The superscription refers to Re.19:17. The Day of Regeneration is called the supper of God to which the blessed of God are called and it is also by invitation, as God invited Moses and a select body to 'come up unto the Lord."
Before this let us discuss this passage from the Gospel of St Luke.
Having said a parable in Ch.13 Jesus tells the Jews thus, "Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets," he goes on to prophesy a great gathering "And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God."( Luke 13:29). Background of this is set forth in the Book of Exodus. He referred to the time the Israelites supped in the presence of God which we shall first consider. This event was by invitation and God commanded Moses,
"Come up unto the Lord, thou, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel; and worship ye afar off." The Spirit is setting two days from the Day decreed for his Son. (Ps.2:6-7) So we are looking the two from the Alpha and Omega aspect of Jesus Christ.
Gospel of Salvation has its judgment upon the disobedient,and the day of Regeneration runs simultaneously. This is what new birth means. They are in the forever mode. God revealed himself first through the Law. And I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them." The law is compared to the face. 'The Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters-'Ge.1:2.It has the body of heaven, "And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness."(24:10) "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
How sad, that from a translation, whether the KJB or RSV (as Urdu Bibles are taken from), believers are missing out on the richness of certain words. And to reiterate, this will always happen, for that is the nature of languages when translated (unless copious notes are also included to further explain or expand).
Sorry Momsage to hit you with such a long response, even though you probably were not looking for one from me. But thought to share in some detail, to show that what brother Jesse is meticulously reading & bringing out for us from the original Greek, should not only be helpful to us in our reading & study, but also to confirm that no translation (even our beloved KJB) can be a perfect rendering of the original. It's one of the best, though not perfect.
Now to Calvinism! No, I won't burden you with that also, but just to say, there are aspects of Calvin's beliefs (otherwise, summarized in those 5 points (five articles of faith: TULIP) accepted by the Synod of Dort in 1618 AD as being the "Rule of Faith" rather than accepting the presentation by the Arminians); that some aspects of Calvin's beliefs are worthy of consideration & acceptance, thereby not throwing out 'baby with the bath water'. Again, it all boils down to, how we read & understand the Scriptures. Thanks for your concern & input on these matters - they are read diligently. Every blessing Momsage.
If I might relate two examples (shared here a long while ago) with just word-for-word difficulties. A language translator missionary (I personally know her) doing her work amongst a tribal group in Papua New Guinea, came across Isaiah 53:6 as part of her work: "All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all". She couldn't get a word for 'sheep' in her target language, simply because they knew nothing of sheep/never seen one. Her dilemma: should she be faithful to the Word and use sheep, maybe giving them some type of picture & their habits to help them, or should she substitute the word for another. If she described a sheep to those with her now, others in later years reading the Bible, may not have the same benefit of her present teaching/translation. So she changed the word to 'pig' ('all we like pigs have gone astray'). Pigs they knew, for they herded them & seen them in the wild, with their propensity to wander off if left unwatched.
A personal example, when sharing from the Word in Pakistan with a Church group. Not having a good grip on Urdu (Pakistan's national language), I used a translator & as is always good practise, to go through the message with him so that he too can be prepared. I referred to 1 John 4:10, "Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins". 'Propitiation' is a big word even for English-speakers, so asked my translator for the Urdu word for it & how he understood it. He gave the word as 'kaffara', which simply means 'atonement'. I asked, "was that all it meant to him (& by extension to all Christians in Pakistan)?" He replied, "Yes, that is how we all read that verse", because they have no word for 'propitiation' = to appease, or satisfy God's Anger. Obviously, I had to explain further to both him & the congregation, its meaning.
Likewise, did Timothy & Titus also understand it in that way? Rather, we have a large group of translators (KJB), in the 17th Century AD, unable to render any other meaning to the Gk, episkopos (which is a superintendent, an overseer, an elder), simply because 'episkopos' was a bishop in the church of that day, but for us in the evangelical community, that is not how we should read it, as it gives us an incorrect understanding. Many of the recent translations change it to 'overseer' - I'm unsure whether any of them use 'elder'.
Now when we look at Acts 14:23 for example, the Gk, word for 'elder' is 'presbuteros', from which we get 'presbytery' (a body of Church elders & ministers). Yet, the KJB translators, being faithful to the Greek had to differentiate between the two (episkopos & presbuteros), which would have been meaningful to those of their day & Church structure, but forces us to re-word those passages to fit our present evangelical Church structure. Were the KJB translators or other modern translators wrong in what they've understood & translated? I don't believe so, they just did what they understood & from the material they had before them. So then back to the old question: how then do we decide which translation is the most accurate & inspired? Is it seen from the original manuscripts/original writings, or just believing that the KJB can be the only one from God for us today? For me, I only read & study from the KJB: it's the one I grew up with, memorized from & love. However, since it didn't come to us in English/modern English, I am constantly on guard to ensure that I am reading the Scriptures as originally given, without the culture & era of the translators impeding on my understanding. Yes, they were inspired to translate, but did so within the limitations of their time & with the understanding that no translation from one language to another can ever be perfect (differences in grammar, syntax, nuances, etc. always apply). Onto Page 2.
Dear Momsage. Thank you for your kind sentiments expressed here. I know that you, and so many others here, love the Lord with all their hearts & your desire is to bring forward your understanding from the Bible, and where there is a difference of opinion, then a good, hearty & loving discussion can ensue. I don't believe that a topic being discussed at great length as 'being run into the ground', since a discussion is as good as those who are prepared to engage in it & want to keep it going. If exchanges cease, then the topic ends, and as often is the case, without agreement, whether in full or part.
Concerning the inspiration of the KJB translation, I believe that brother Jesse has explained it very well, in that inspiration came in the original writings, when holy men of God & prophets had direct interactions with the LORD, or as in the case of Genesis, where Moses was so directed to pen those words or to access other writings from those preceding him, giving us the history. What we have now in our modern translations (including the KJB), is wholly dependent on the texts that they have derived from & the quality of the translators. Does this mean that those translators of the NIV, NASB, etc. were not inspired or diligent in their work? Or rather, their source material, though older, may not necessarily be the more reliable (for they even differ between each other, depending on which one is used or used in combination with the others).
Just as an example concerning the translators themselves: take 1 Timothy 3:1 or Titus 1:7, focussing on the word 'bishop'. Today, we envision a bishop as a senior member of a clergy, maybe in charge of a diocese & one who confers 'holy' orders to his parishes. As well, he robes himself in a long embroidered gown with a mitre on his head. Do you feel that Paul when writing those words in his letters pictured such an official person in the Church, so admirably dressed to lead Christ's Church? Onto Page 2.
Travel mercies and protection for Sarah R. and BW now and as they go out of town and back tomorrow and throughout the weekend, no weapon formed against them shall prosper, Lord keep them safe and happy, cancel all plans of the enemy against them and my family and I, in Jesus Name, Amen.
Another way that God's transcendence is expressed is in His royal and exalted glory and power.
Ps. 57:5, 97:9 speak of God being exalted above all else. He always is in the most high position from creation.
Deut. 4:39; Eccl. 5:2 speaks of God dwelling in heaven above, even the highest heavens. ) Ps 8:1, 57:5) None of us CAN go up to heaven to check Him out in His sovereign majesty. God had to come down to us in the Son for us to know what God s like. John 3 :13.
Ps. 113:5 says that He Himself is the most high ( Ps. 97:9)
So the term 'transcendence" s a convenient term to use to summarize these ways in which God is "above us"; in majesty, holiness, sovereignty, exaltation, glory, perfection, etc.
God is ontologically different and distinct from us that we can only describe Him adequately with our human language (this is called "ineffable). But in His immanence, He has revealed Himself in human terms, both verbally and in Jesus, the Son so that we can be redeemed and have fellowship with Him both now and forever. Jesus said, "This is eternal life, to know the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom He has sent." ( John 17:3)
Though God is transcendent, He has spoken clearly and in language that we can understand with certainty His nature and actions. Romans 1:18-22 says this and that therefore no one can be blameless from ignorance.
Romans 11:33-36 does speak of His mystery, incomprehensibility, ineffability, and "deep things of God" that no man can know.
We can also understand God's transcendence as referring to his Lordship over all that is, to His power and right as the King of everything He has made in all of creation, to His sovereignty and authority over all creatures and in all of His will. This speaks to His omnipotence, omniscience, and omni-presence. ( Ps. 2:47; 93:1; 96:10-13; 97:4; 99:1)
His authority is His control over the moral sphere, over all things that happen in time, all circumstances, and all that w happen.
Lord you know how terrible these things are and that it is just a detail of many similar situations today. I pray that this grandchild is indeed transformed to a mighty warrior in the Lord. May it be as Malachi 4:6 states: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.
May we claim these verses as well '
Psalm 8:2
From the mouth of infants and nursing babes You have established strength
Because of Your adversaries,
To make the enemy and the revengeful cease.
Numbers 14:31
Your children, however, whom you said would become a prey-I will bring them in, and they will know the land which you have rejected.
I ask now that the spirit of New Age will not affect this child; nor doctrines of demons that are in society as well as being taught in many congregations. May it be truly a move of the Holy Ghost and make that clear to the father and her other siblings that this has occurred.
Before creation, there was only God. He existed forever as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in a unified oneness of being. He is and always is one being with three distinct "persons" or centers of consciousness or "subsistences" each sharing eternally the one divine essence (nature) fully and equally. Before creation, God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit loved each other and were completely satisfied within the Being of the one Godhead. He was self-sufficient in all ways, in need of nothing outside of His one Being. No other being in creation is like this. And, since we are finite in all ways, we cannot wrap our minds fully around this quality of God. In this way, He is transcendent.
In His holiness, God is set apart from all He created, being transcendent and beyond the reach of any created being, especially in that humans are sinful and therefore rightly restrained from God's presence. God's glory in His transcendent holiness and majesty determines that no man can see the face of God and live. We will be consumed by His glory and wrath for sinfulness. He did not let Moses see His face (glory) in Exodus 33:20 because Moses was still in sinful flesh. The full revelation of God to mankind is reserved for the future. Now we know in part, but then we will know more fully. Isaiah 64:6-7 speaks to our unworthiness to be in fellowship with God and abide in His presence. "all of us have become like one who is unclean.."
God's holiness and righteousness forces God to turn His face away from what is sinful and keep Himself separate from anything and anyone sinful, impure, unclean, and less than perfect. But paradoxically, God does draw near to those who He redeems and it in this His immanence that any creature can have fellowship with Him and come to truly know Him. Jer. 23:23-24 speaks of this. It is also in His immanence that He controls and upholds the universe, in His work within history, time, and space, and in His plan to create and redeem.-- Pt. 3
Dear Lord: This sister in the Lord has been a great help to me in the last year or more with my struggles and you have given her great wisdom in Your Word. Please protect and sustain her health so that she can continue in the service feeding people in her area as well as contributing to this site and for the sake of her husband and the rest of her family so that they can see your Mighty hand at work.
Sir, a day in "prophetic" terms equals one year, as we see in the 70 weeks. The 1,260 is the same time as the 42 months, as well as the time, times and half time spoken in Daniel. They are all the same time, 538 A.D. to 1798 A.D. Your "tag" info is diluted with misunderstanding.
I pray that one day I will be able to be better in God and be a better Stewart, as 2 days ago my moms and (mine) friends house was on fire... and he is fine yet he is very stressed. I pray that he will find peace in Jesus Christ, Amen.
This word means that something is "not near" or "not knowable" or "beyond our scope of experience"
So, in relation to God, He is in a unique realm of His own. He exists outside of time, space, and dimension. Before creation, He existed within Himself alone. He exists apart from and independent from anyone of anything else.
God is transcendent in His uncommunicable attributes of holiness, purity, sovereignty, infiniteness, limitlessness, omni-presence, omnipotence, omniscience, and perfection. No created being possesses these characteristics in the way God possesses them, which is infinitely and perfectly. He cannot give any creature these attributes because His divine nature is higher above and surpasses any created being. He is in a class of His own as God, as there is no other God but the God of Scriptures. ALL things are upheld by Him. ( Heb. 13), yet He is upheld by Himself alone. He is the only truly transcendent being
God is transcendent in that He is unknowable and remains unknown ( Acts 17:23) by creatures unless He reveals to creatures aspects of Himself, which is called "immanence". All we know about God s what He has revealed to us in creation, theophanies, words to and through His prophets, working of His power, miracles, and most truly and clearly in the incarnation of His eternal Son, Jesus who is "Immanuel", God with us and with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in believers and in the Scriptures inspired by God. Being transcendent, God is the incomprehensible Creator, unsearchable those He created who exist in the realm of time and space and matter. Neither by an act of our will nor by our own reasoning can we possibly come to understand God or experience Him personally. But because He wills to us to know Him, He intersects our realm of time, space and matter to communicate to us what He is like, what His will is, and causes us to seek Him. Isaiah 55:8-9 and Romans 11:33-36 speaks to this.
GOD is in control of history, nothing random happens.
What I know is that the four riders of Apocalypse, one of GOD and three of the Devil, they are already running /walking with their powers that are reflected in whole world.
It is up to the believing followers of JESUS to identify who the four horsemen of the Apocalypse are,
the rider of the white horse is Michael( Daniel 12:1-3 combined with 1Thessalonians 4:16),
and the rider of the red horse in my view is Trump,
but who is the rider of the black horse?
And the pale horse, who is the rider whose NAME is called Death, and Hell follow with him? Is not he the MAN of sin, son of perdition, who will manifest himself very soon as the messiah of the Jews ( John 5:43-47 combined with Revelation 13:11-18) even now, in the last week, week 70th Daniel 9:27 combined with 2Thessalonians 2:3-4 and 9-12, as soon as be elected the next and last Pope? As is written, Power will be given UNTO THEM over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the ruthless beasts of the earth?
The battle is/will be against three unclean spirits like frogs- Revelation 16:13-15. Why frogs? ->there is something in the site of purebible.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the MOUTH of the dragon( Revelation 13:11), and out of the MOUTH of the Beast (Beast of sea- Revelation 13:1-9, the Papacy), and out of the MOUTH of the False Prophet( John 5:43-47).
14 For they are the SPIRITS OF DEMONS, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that Great Day of GOD Almighty.
Please lord forgive me for any mistakes or things that I have said or done that is not consistent with the word of God.There has been a lot that I've had to shoulder and yet that doesn't allow me to treat others with disrespect in any form or fashion!Alow me father to make amends to whoever I have offended! In the name of the father, the son and the Holy Spirit, praise God, and may I be an asset to mankind and not a liability moving forward. This is my prayer that I submit amen.
I pray this when i feel scared i am scaredpsalms 91 is my 911 distress call i cry to everyday inside my mind i need you jesus christ of nazareth pray with me i am rak chazak amats child of the one true king for my mother to please she arguing with me and we say ugly things to each other but i know its not her please prayer warriors i
need you pleasewe need deliverance in jesus christ mighty name of nazareth forgiveness love peace joy long-suffering etc..................
Pray for. my son and his girls. My son got into drugs in his teens. He continues using drugs for several years, but backed off of them when he was 29. He still drinks beer often and may still be doing drugs???
One of his. daughters, Paige, at 21 was found dead in her bedroom one Sunday morning at the first of this. year. It appears to be a drug overdose.
Paige was not saved.
Please pray for Ally (older sister very much into drugs), Wade (the father of these girls) and for Cara Beth.
Cara Beth has never done drugs of any kind. She is shy. She does not run around with the same crowd with whom her sisters keep as companions.
Cara Beth is going to church with her Grandfather. (her first time to go to church and SHE asked her granddaddy if she could go with him.). Pleas pray extra hard that Cara Beth through the influence that God gives to her grandfather will get to know Jesus.
RED APPLE TREATY 4 ME ONLY on Jeremiah 32 - 7 months ago
Verse of day July 18, 2024
"Ah Lord GOD! behold, thou hast made the heaven and the earth by thy great power and stretched out arm, and there is nothing too hard for thee:" Jeremiah 32:17 KJV
My Respond textual scripture:
"Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it." Malachi 3:10 KJV
I accepted Jesus Christ as God using my faith to receive it"( if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it")
I would like some to pray for me. I am going to have an ultrasound of my right torso to check my liver. My AST and ALT liver enzymes have been elevated on two lab tests in the last month. I had an MRI done a few weeks ago due to painful spasms in my back and right side. It seems that this was associated with my back problems and inflammation of nerves that serve that are. The scan also showed gallstones, which I did not know I had. The blood draw showed these elevated liver enzymes. I did see my new primary physician last week and she is ordering this ultrasound to check to see if my liver is showing inflammation or simply "fatty".
Please pray that my liver is healthy and that nothing of concern shows up on the ultrasound. I do hope that I will find out what is causing the spike in these enzymes. It could be the statin med I take or the gallstones. I appreciate those who will pray for me.
I believe, you have misunderstood my thoughts. Our almighty, loving God has created mankind from Adam to now with a free will to choose to love Him and live their lives for Him; salvation/heaven or reject Him and receive the wages of sin they deserve which is eternal torment in Hell. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding/ God Bless :)
Thank you for your comment. I, most assuredly, do not believe in Calvinism in any way. I'm totally in agreement with you. The bible does not teach this misleading doctrine.
My postings on this doctrine were in defensive of yours's and my beliefs that God is a wonderful, greatly loving, fair God who has provided all mankind with a self will, in that when He moves on a soul they have the choice of accepting Him or not. I decided today to send a post to Jesse, (our discussion was on whether the KJB is Holy Ghost inspired, my belief, or whether it is not, his belief) and Chris, (I was discussing Calvinism with him) to let them know I believe we need to end our discussions. I don't want to be guilty of running a discussion into the ground, therefore, I feel we have said all we need to have said for ourselves and for others. My main hope is that others will see these discussions and they will be a help to them, which is why I do these discussions. God Bless :)
I'd like to say: I know you and I are brother and sister in the Lord and I know that we both love the Lord dearly and our lives belong to Him completely. We may disagree on the KJB but in the end, when the Lord calls His Bride to the Marriage Supper of the Lamb; His church, She will be in unity.
I think it is time to end this discussion and go on to something else. I am not angry, hurt, annoyed or anything else like that. I just don't want to be guilty of running a discussion into the ground and I'm sure you don't either. I believe we have said all there is to be said about this subject for ourselves and others. You can do what you'd like with the NIV history I sent you, however, I would still like to see the comparison you did of the KJB and Texus Receptus. I haven't seen anything like that in your posts to me. I hope I didn't miss it. Let me know how you feel about continuing the discussions or not. I am opened about that.
"God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,/ Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son" What we read in the Book of Exodus illustrates this. Nevertheless the nation of Israel rehected his Son when he came into his own. Jesus speaks his 'woe to ye'' discourse in Matthew "There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out./ And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God."
In the day of Regeneration children of the kingdom shall judge the twelve tribes of Israel which were cast out into the outer darkness by Jesus. What is left on the earth the Gentiles and the Jews alike are part of a mixed race. There is no difference in Jesus Christ. It applies to those who are saved and they walk under the light of the Lamb. Re.21:24. The twelve tribes they shall be in eternity..
" Also they saw God, and did eat and drink."
Ex.24:11 " Also they saw God, and did eat and drink."
The superscription refers to Re.19:17. The Day of Regeneration is called the supper of God to which the blessed of God are called and it is also by invitation, as God invited Moses and a select body to 'come up unto the Lord."
Before this let us discuss this passage from the Gospel of St Luke.
Having said a parable in Ch.13 Jesus tells the Jews thus, "Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets," he goes on to prophesy a great gathering "And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God."( Luke 13:29). Background of this is set forth in the Book of Exodus. He referred to the time the Israelites supped in the presence of God which we shall first consider. This event was by invitation and God commanded Moses,
"Come up unto the Lord, thou, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel; and worship ye afar off." The Spirit is setting two days from the Day decreed for his Son. (Ps.2:6-7) So we are looking the two from the Alpha and Omega aspect of Jesus Christ.
Gospel of Salvation has its judgment upon the disobedient,and the day of Regeneration runs simultaneously. This is what new birth means. They are in the forever mode. God revealed himself first through the Law. And I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them." The law is compared to the face. 'The Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters-'Ge.1:2.It has the body of heaven, "And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness."(24:10) "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
We have gone through the topic earlier and I have nothing more to add,
I have mentioned what I believe as true. That is all
How sad, that from a translation, whether the KJB or RSV (as Urdu Bibles are taken from), believers are missing out on the richness of certain words. And to reiterate, this will always happen, for that is the nature of languages when translated (unless copious notes are also included to further explain or expand).
Sorry Momsage to hit you with such a long response, even though you probably were not looking for one from me. But thought to share in some detail, to show that what brother Jesse is meticulously reading & bringing out for us from the original Greek, should not only be helpful to us in our reading & study, but also to confirm that no translation (even our beloved KJB) can be a perfect rendering of the original. It's one of the best, though not perfect.
Now to Calvinism! No, I won't burden you with that also, but just to say, there are aspects of Calvin's beliefs (otherwise, summarized in those 5 points (five articles of faith: TULIP) accepted by the Synod of Dort in 1618 AD as being the "Rule of Faith" rather than accepting the presentation by the Arminians); that some aspects of Calvin's beliefs are worthy of consideration & acceptance, thereby not throwing out 'baby with the bath water'. Again, it all boils down to, how we read & understand the Scriptures. Thanks for your concern & input on these matters - they are read diligently. Every blessing Momsage.
If I might relate two examples (shared here a long while ago) with just word-for-word difficulties. A language translator missionary (I personally know her) doing her work amongst a tribal group in Papua New Guinea, came across Isaiah 53:6 as part of her work: "All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all". She couldn't get a word for 'sheep' in her target language, simply because they knew nothing of sheep/never seen one. Her dilemma: should she be faithful to the Word and use sheep, maybe giving them some type of picture & their habits to help them, or should she substitute the word for another. If she described a sheep to those with her now, others in later years reading the Bible, may not have the same benefit of her present teaching/translation. So she changed the word to 'pig' ('all we like pigs have gone astray'). Pigs they knew, for they herded them & seen them in the wild, with their propensity to wander off if left unwatched.
A personal example, when sharing from the Word in Pakistan with a Church group. Not having a good grip on Urdu (Pakistan's national language), I used a translator & as is always good practise, to go through the message with him so that he too can be prepared. I referred to 1 John 4:10, "Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins". 'Propitiation' is a big word even for English-speakers, so asked my translator for the Urdu word for it & how he understood it. He gave the word as 'kaffara', which simply means 'atonement'. I asked, "was that all it meant to him (& by extension to all Christians in Pakistan)?" He replied, "Yes, that is how we all read that verse", because they have no word for 'propitiation' = to appease, or satisfy God's Anger. Obviously, I had to explain further to both him & the congregation, its meaning.
Onto Page 4.
Likewise, did Timothy & Titus also understand it in that way? Rather, we have a large group of translators (KJB), in the 17th Century AD, unable to render any other meaning to the Gk, episkopos (which is a superintendent, an overseer, an elder), simply because 'episkopos' was a bishop in the church of that day, but for us in the evangelical community, that is not how we should read it, as it gives us an incorrect understanding. Many of the recent translations change it to 'overseer' - I'm unsure whether any of them use 'elder'.
Now when we look at Acts 14:23 for example, the Gk, word for 'elder' is 'presbuteros', from which we get 'presbytery' (a body of Church elders & ministers). Yet, the KJB translators, being faithful to the Greek had to differentiate between the two (episkopos & presbuteros), which would have been meaningful to those of their day & Church structure, but forces us to re-word those passages to fit our present evangelical Church structure. Were the KJB translators or other modern translators wrong in what they've understood & translated? I don't believe so, they just did what they understood & from the material they had before them. So then back to the old question: how then do we decide which translation is the most accurate & inspired? Is it seen from the original manuscripts/original writings, or just believing that the KJB can be the only one from God for us today? For me, I only read & study from the KJB: it's the one I grew up with, memorized from & love. However, since it didn't come to us in English/modern English, I am constantly on guard to ensure that I am reading the Scriptures as originally given, without the culture & era of the translators impeding on my understanding. Yes, they were inspired to translate, but did so within the limitations of their time & with the understanding that no translation from one language to another can ever be perfect (differences in grammar, syntax, nuances, etc. always apply). Onto Page 2.
Dear Momsage. Thank you for your kind sentiments expressed here. I know that you, and so many others here, love the Lord with all their hearts & your desire is to bring forward your understanding from the Bible, and where there is a difference of opinion, then a good, hearty & loving discussion can ensue. I don't believe that a topic being discussed at great length as 'being run into the ground', since a discussion is as good as those who are prepared to engage in it & want to keep it going. If exchanges cease, then the topic ends, and as often is the case, without agreement, whether in full or part.
Concerning the inspiration of the KJB translation, I believe that brother Jesse has explained it very well, in that inspiration came in the original writings, when holy men of God & prophets had direct interactions with the LORD, or as in the case of Genesis, where Moses was so directed to pen those words or to access other writings from those preceding him, giving us the history. What we have now in our modern translations (including the KJB), is wholly dependent on the texts that they have derived from & the quality of the translators. Does this mean that those translators of the NIV, NASB, etc. were not inspired or diligent in their work? Or rather, their source material, though older, may not necessarily be the more reliable (for they even differ between each other, depending on which one is used or used in combination with the others).
Just as an example concerning the translators themselves: take 1 Timothy 3:1 or Titus 1:7, focussing on the word 'bishop'. Today, we envision a bishop as a senior member of a clergy, maybe in charge of a diocese & one who confers 'holy' orders to his parishes. As well, he robes himself in a long embroidered gown with a mitre on his head. Do you feel that Paul when writing those words in his letters pictured such an official person in the Church, so admirably dressed to lead Christ's Church? Onto Page 2.
May God bless you and your precious family while you are going through this ordeal.
I pray for God's grace, mercy and compassion to be upon you, and that God relieves you of your worries and pour His healing power upon you.
In Jesus precious name.
God bless!
Thanks for extending your love and grace to me again and again to pray for answers to my requests.
PT. 3
Another way that God's transcendence is expressed is in His royal and exalted glory and power.
Ps. 57:5, 97:9 speak of God being exalted above all else. He always is in the most high position from creation.
Deut. 4:39; Eccl. 5:2 speaks of God dwelling in heaven above, even the highest heavens. ) Ps 8:1, 57:5) None of us CAN go up to heaven to check Him out in His sovereign majesty. God had to come down to us in the Son for us to know what God s like. John 3 :13.
Ps. 113:5 says that He Himself is the most high ( Ps. 97:9)
So the term 'transcendence" s a convenient term to use to summarize these ways in which God is "above us"; in majesty, holiness, sovereignty, exaltation, glory, perfection, etc.
God is ontologically different and distinct from us that we can only describe Him adequately with our human language (this is called "ineffable). But in His immanence, He has revealed Himself in human terms, both verbally and in Jesus, the Son so that we can be redeemed and have fellowship with Him both now and forever. Jesus said, "This is eternal life, to know the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom He has sent." ( John 17:3)
Though God is transcendent, He has spoken clearly and in language that we can understand with certainty His nature and actions. Romans 1:18-22 says this and that therefore no one can be blameless from ignorance.
Romans 11:33-36 does speak of His mystery, incomprehensibility, ineffability, and "deep things of God" that no man can know.
We can also understand God's transcendence as referring to his Lordship over all that is, to His power and right as the King of everything He has made in all of creation, to His sovereignty and authority over all creatures and in all of His will. This speaks to His omnipotence, omniscience, and omni-presence. ( Ps. 2:47; 93:1; 96:10-13; 97:4; 99:1)
His authority is His control over the moral sphere, over all things that happen in time, all circumstances, and all that w happen.
May we claim these verses as well '
Psalm 8:2
From the mouth of infants and nursing babes You have established strength
Because of Your adversaries,
To make the enemy and the revengeful cease.
Numbers 14:31
Your children, however, whom you said would become a prey-I will bring them in, and they will know the land which you have rejected.
I ask now that the spirit of New Age will not affect this child; nor doctrines of demons that are in society as well as being taught in many congregations. May it be truly a move of the Holy Ghost and make that clear to the father and her other siblings that this has occurred.
Maranatha. Rich P
Blessings.
pt 2
Before creation, there was only God. He existed forever as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in a unified oneness of being. He is and always is one being with three distinct "persons" or centers of consciousness or "subsistences" each sharing eternally the one divine essence (nature) fully and equally. Before creation, God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit loved each other and were completely satisfied within the Being of the one Godhead. He was self-sufficient in all ways, in need of nothing outside of His one Being. No other being in creation is like this. And, since we are finite in all ways, we cannot wrap our minds fully around this quality of God. In this way, He is transcendent.
In His holiness, God is set apart from all He created, being transcendent and beyond the reach of any created being, especially in that humans are sinful and therefore rightly restrained from God's presence. God's glory in His transcendent holiness and majesty determines that no man can see the face of God and live. We will be consumed by His glory and wrath for sinfulness. He did not let Moses see His face (glory) in Exodus 33:20 because Moses was still in sinful flesh. The full revelation of God to mankind is reserved for the future. Now we know in part, but then we will know more fully. Isaiah 64:6-7 speaks to our unworthiness to be in fellowship with God and abide in His presence. "all of us have become like one who is unclean.."
God's holiness and righteousness forces God to turn His face away from what is sinful and keep Himself separate from anything and anyone sinful, impure, unclean, and less than perfect. But paradoxically, God does draw near to those who He redeems and it in this His immanence that any creature can have fellowship with Him and come to truly know Him. Jer. 23:23-24 speaks of this. It is also in His immanence that He controls and upholds the universe, in His work within history, time, and space, and in His plan to create and redeem.-- Pt. 3
Amen.
(Seven means completion.) * * * * * * *
This word means that something is "not near" or "not knowable" or "beyond our scope of experience"
So, in relation to God, He is in a unique realm of His own. He exists outside of time, space, and dimension. Before creation, He existed within Himself alone. He exists apart from and independent from anyone of anything else.
God is transcendent in His uncommunicable attributes of holiness, purity, sovereignty, infiniteness, limitlessness, omni-presence, omnipotence, omniscience, and perfection. No created being possesses these characteristics in the way God possesses them, which is infinitely and perfectly. He cannot give any creature these attributes because His divine nature is higher above and surpasses any created being. He is in a class of His own as God, as there is no other God but the God of Scriptures. ALL things are upheld by Him. ( Heb. 13), yet He is upheld by Himself alone. He is the only truly transcendent being
God is transcendent in that He is unknowable and remains unknown ( Acts 17:23) by creatures unless He reveals to creatures aspects of Himself, which is called "immanence". All we know about God s what He has revealed to us in creation, theophanies, words to and through His prophets, working of His power, miracles, and most truly and clearly in the incarnation of His eternal Son, Jesus who is "Immanuel", God with us and with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in believers and in the Scriptures inspired by God. Being transcendent, God is the incomprehensible Creator, unsearchable those He created who exist in the realm of time and space and matter. Neither by an act of our will nor by our own reasoning can we possibly come to understand God or experience Him personally. But because He wills to us to know Him, He intersects our realm of time, space and matter to communicate to us what He is like, what His will is, and causes us to seek Him. Isaiah 55:8-9 and Romans 11:33-36 speaks to this.
See part 2
What I know is that the four riders of Apocalypse, one of GOD and three of the Devil, they are already running /walking with their powers that are reflected in whole world.
It is up to the believing followers of JESUS to identify who the four horsemen of the Apocalypse are,
the rider of the white horse is Michael( Daniel 12:1-3 combined with 1Thessalonians 4:16),
and the rider of the red horse in my view is Trump,
but who is the rider of the black horse?
And the pale horse, who is the rider whose NAME is called Death, and Hell follow with him? Is not he the MAN of sin, son of perdition, who will manifest himself very soon as the messiah of the Jews ( John 5:43-47 combined with Revelation 13:11-18) even now, in the last week, week 70th Daniel 9:27 combined with 2Thessalonians 2:3-4 and 9-12, as soon as be elected the next and last Pope? As is written, Power will be given UNTO THEM over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the ruthless beasts of the earth?
The battle is/will be against three unclean spirits like frogs- Revelation 16:13-15. Why frogs? ->there is something in the site of purebible.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the MOUTH of the dragon( Revelation 13:11), and out of the MOUTH of the Beast (Beast of sea- Revelation 13:1-9, the Papacy), and out of the MOUTH of the False Prophet( John 5:43-47).
14 For they are the SPIRITS OF DEMONS, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that Great Day of GOD Almighty.
ATTENTION!
15 Behold, I come as a thief.
Be careful and Get ready
need you pleasewe need deliverance in jesus christ mighty name of nazareth forgiveness love peace joy long-suffering etc..................
One of his. daughters, Paige, at 21 was found dead in her bedroom one Sunday morning at the first of this. year. It appears to be a drug overdose.
Paige was not saved.
Please pray for Ally (older sister very much into drugs), Wade (the father of these girls) and for Cara Beth.
Cara Beth has never done drugs of any kind. She is shy. She does not run around with the same crowd with whom her sisters keep as companions.
Cara Beth is going to church with her Grandfather. (her first time to go to church and SHE asked her granddaddy if she could go with him.). Pleas pray extra hard that Cara Beth through the influence that God gives to her grandfather will get to know Jesus.
Thank you,
Martha Ann, grandmother
Consider it done!
"Ah Lord GOD! behold, thou hast made the heaven and the earth by thy great power and stretched out arm, and there is nothing too hard for thee:" Jeremiah 32:17 KJV
My Respond textual scripture:
"Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it." Malachi 3:10 KJV
I accepted Jesus Christ as God using my faith to receive it"( if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it")
I would like some to pray for me. I am going to have an ultrasound of my right torso to check my liver. My AST and ALT liver enzymes have been elevated on two lab tests in the last month. I had an MRI done a few weeks ago due to painful spasms in my back and right side. It seems that this was associated with my back problems and inflammation of nerves that serve that are. The scan also showed gallstones, which I did not know I had. The blood draw showed these elevated liver enzymes. I did see my new primary physician last week and she is ordering this ultrasound to check to see if my liver is showing inflammation or simply "fatty".
Please pray that my liver is healthy and that nothing of concern shows up on the ultrasound. I do hope that I will find out what is causing the spike in these enzymes. It could be the statin med I take or the gallstones. I appreciate those who will pray for me.
I believe, you have misunderstood my thoughts. Our almighty, loving God has created mankind from Adam to now with a free will to choose to love Him and live their lives for Him; salvation/heaven or reject Him and receive the wages of sin they deserve which is eternal torment in Hell. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding/ God Bless :)
Thank you for your comment. I, most assuredly, do not believe in Calvinism in any way. I'm totally in agreement with you. The bible does not teach this misleading doctrine.
My postings on this doctrine were in defensive of yours's and my beliefs that God is a wonderful, greatly loving, fair God who has provided all mankind with a self will, in that when He moves on a soul they have the choice of accepting Him or not. I decided today to send a post to Jesse, (our discussion was on whether the KJB is Holy Ghost inspired, my belief, or whether it is not, his belief) and Chris, (I was discussing Calvinism with him) to let them know I believe we need to end our discussions. I don't want to be guilty of running a discussion into the ground, therefore, I feel we have said all we need to have said for ourselves and for others. My main hope is that others will see these discussions and they will be a help to them, which is why I do these discussions. God Bless :)
I'd like to say: I know you and I are brother and sister in the Lord and I know that we both love the Lord dearly and our lives belong to Him completely. We may disagree on the KJB but in the end, when the Lord calls His Bride to the Marriage Supper of the Lamb; His church, She will be in unity.
I think it is time to end this discussion and go on to something else. I am not angry, hurt, annoyed or anything else like that. I just don't want to be guilty of running a discussion into the ground and I'm sure you don't either. I believe we have said all there is to be said about this subject for ourselves and others. You can do what you'd like with the NIV history I sent you, however, I would still like to see the comparison you did of the KJB and Texus Receptus. I haven't seen anything like that in your posts to me. I hope I didn't miss it. Let me know how you feel about continuing the discussions or not. I am opened about that.
God Bless :)