See, we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: But we speak the wisdom of GOD in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which GOD ordained before the world unto our glory, which none of the princes of this world knew. For what man knows the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of GOD knows no man, but the Spirit of GOD. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of GOD; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of GOD.
But GOD has revealed them unto us by His Spirit: for the Spirit searches all things, yea, the deep things of GOD. 1Corinthians 2:6-16.
In my view,according to the Word of GOD,there are the 1st,2nd and 3rd heavens,and the heaven of the heavens.
What does the Word of GOD say?
Moses said: Deuteronomy 10:14KJV->Behold,the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the Lord's thy GOD, the earth also, with all that therein is.
1Kings 8:27KJV->27 But will GOD indeed dwell on the earth?behold,the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded?
Psalms 33:6KJV->By the Word of the Lord were the HEAVENS made;and all the host of them by the breath of His mouth.
Psalms 148:4KJV-4 Praise him,ye heavens of heavens,and ye waters that be above the heavens.
Job 14:12->12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.
When Scriptures say heaven(singular) they refer to a specific heaven, i.e. to one of the four heavens GOD created, understand? The problem is to discern which of them Scriptures refer.
So,when you intend to post a message,you should FIRST to judge if your message fits with the Word of GOD or not,and if not fit with Scriptures, don't post it. Paul Apostle,was caught to the 3rd heaven, once 3rd heaven exists, also exist the 1st and 2nd heavens.
Re.12:12-Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them( Ephesians 1:3-8). Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea!for the Devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has but a short time.
Furthermore,you said the modern versions are not Holy Ghost inspired like the KJB is,put an 's' implying plural heavens but the Holy Spirit wrote it as one heaven. Now,to say that the modern versions of the Word of GOD are not inspired by the Holy Spirit is a serious error, in fact what you wrote was/is not inspired by the Holy Spirit,in fact you need to rethink the things you wrote for good to them that love GOD,to them who are the called according to His purpose.
Hello brother Spencer, Thank you for making time for some thoughts. For this evening, I would like to stay with my premise that God made Adam and Eve very good in the sixth day before He rested. This thought in Job:
"The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life." Job 33:4 KJV .This verse shows that Life is good and it includes spiritual life as it is made in the likeness of the Spirit of God as everything was in the beginning.
Adam was placed in the garden by God the Father to dress and keep it. We know this by the scripture. We also know by scripture that Adam and his wife Eve did not remain in the state that they were made. When they became naked to each other they were also naked to God the Father and they knew it and tried to hide it.
Adam and his wife Eve were predestinated to the first estate of being made very good physically, emotionally and spiritually for the purpose of dressing and keeping the garden and I would believe as humble children of God. God loved them. It is important to believe that God placed them in the garden himself and that they did not enter on their own. With their free will with power they allowed themselves to be deceived and left this estate and garden in unbelief which is resistance and sin before God the Father.
Now thinking of Titus chapter 3:4-5 the kindness and love of God (the Father) our Savior appeared toward man. This new covering of love with skins and a Promise happened in the garden. His mercy was their salvation. Mercy was free of the works of righteousness which we have done and they too.
Even by faith and hope Adam and Eve went to sleep in their own works of righteousness. We can hope that this covering of Mercy carried them to the second Adam our Christ whose blood is our true covering for our own sin, as we pray by faith for ourselves and every neighbor.
Here we have Ezekiel referencing the Entity behind The king of Tyrus.
Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
THOU HAST BEEN IN EDEN THE GARDEN OF GOD; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Also see Isaiah 14:12-17.
When did all this happen here in Isaiah?
Clearly in Ezekiel he's not talking about the King of Tyrus, when have he been in Eden, "The Garden or God "?
When we view the creation in Genesis chapters 1 and 2 where do we fit this in a six day creation?
I believe you see this in the structure of the menorah.
We have the tendency to believe Man can get his act together if his conditions were to change and there were no outside influence from Satan.
We just need a great economy and time to evolve into Holy people as long as we're under the watch and providence of our great ruler, with even better odds than Adam and Eve had in the Garden or Israel had in the wilderness.
Atleast that would seem to be the case if Satan was bound.
No more evil influence from that deceiver!
Well scripture tells us that the nations of the WORLD will have just that.
Here's just a few verses
Isaiah 30:19-21.
Isaiah 65:17-24.
Amos 9:11-15.
Zechariah 14:16-19.
Revelation 5:10.
Isaiah 2:2-4.
This will happen here on earth during the Millennium when Satan is bound.
And when he's loosed he will deceive the nations again.
I'm finally settled in for the night and thanks again for responding!
I viewed your thoughts and I have a few things I would like you to consider.
I portioned them out and would like to address them separately.
1) You stated; We know they were made very good as part of everything made in the sixth day. I would believe that having been made very good they had a covering at least by the hand of God himself by His image.
Having been placed in the garden to dress and keep it was also good and they had all that they needed.
My thoughts;
"When God says that it was good he's not talking about Adam's spiritual condition! God mentioned the same thing about the light, the seas, the grass and the herb, the cattle, the creeping things, the two great lights to rule over the day and night, and on and on until he finished his creation.
As for setting him in the garden of Eden. Well that didn't work out.
2) Continuing your quote;
"And yet nakedness began by listening to a fellow creature rather than being obedient to the Word of the Father himself.
My thoughts;
You said nakedness began by listening to a fellow creature.
However, In Genesis 2:25
Adam was naked BEFORE he listened to the voice of his wife.
Also Adam wasn't deceived by Satan according to 1 Timothy 2:14.
Adam made the decision to disobey God!
The decision process comes before the act.
He wasn't created perfect and the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil opened his eyes to that.
There's only one perfect being to walk here on earth and that's God himself manifested in the flesh!
This "gap" theory is a possibility as the first verses of Genesis leave some room for such speculation such as this. But throughout the whole Bible there is not any account of this happening, who may have been involved, or how events unfolded. So, thanks for the mention of this. But as for me, I can wait until I am with Jesus to find out if this really happened. I leave it as an open idea for now.
I will continue to pray for your granddaughter, her parents, and your family. God only knows all of what the reason He has allowed this to come into your sweet one. But nothing is impossible for Him, so we pray for healing and miracles for her.
Well, we all on here are all seeking God and His ways in His Holy Word. So you are in good company. Giannis has advised you well to pray for God to lead you to a church fellowship with good sound biblical teaching and a loving environment to grow in. That is the way the church was fist established. Believers meeting together to worship, hear what the apostles and leaders preached and to share life together in godly fellowship and deep love and concern for one another. I will pray for this for you as well.
Just found out there is nothing the doctors can do for my granddaughter's brain tumor and they give her two months to live.I am devastated as well as my family and don't understand why God would let her die at five years old.I am praying for God to save her life as we're so crippled inside from the pain.My poor daughter is devastated as her only daughter is going to die.Please pray for all of us as we need it and the strength to go on.Thankyou!
I, too, think that the wilderness interactions of Jesus and Satan were not so much of a test for Jesus to sin, but a declaration of Jesus proving He IS the divine Son of God and therefore, Satan's governor, ruler, and authority. Jesus knew going into the temptation that He would not sin just as He had not sinned in all the temptations He had faced with growing up and in His early adulthood. He knew who He was, even at the age of 12. He knew He could not sin, but His humanity could be tempted and, as the divine Son was the only Person in Jesus, having both a divine and human nature, but only one Person, He knew He knew He would obey His Father and not sin. He also knew what the devil was going to tempt Him with, as He was divine and omniscient. He also knew He would triumph over Satan in this encounter and Satan would leave Him as a defeated foe.
The Scriptures He quoted to Satan are the words He inspired to be written by Moses, David, and the prophets. He is he author of all Scriptures, so He was quoting these Scriptures not just to defend against the temptation and not just to show honor to His Father, but to show that He is to be honored as His Father is honored, too. The devil was not to think that physical things can override the nourishment of Scripture spoken into existence by Jesus, nor was the devil to test God, whether the Father, the Son, or the Holy Spirit, nor was the devil to worship anyone but the true God, who stood before him in the wilderness; Jesus being God int he flesh and the fullness of the Father, Holy Spirit, and Son dwelled in Him in perfection.
Thanks for bringing this up. Sometimes we think of Jesus as being lower than the Father or lesser, but He is true God just as the Father and Holy Spirit. This kind of segways into my next post on who God is: He is Victor!
This a KJB site where one can read the Bible. But this site does not belong to a particular church. So the people who participate in discussions here are from different churches having sometimes completely opposite beliefs about certain things in the Bible. And since you are a new believer you can not distinguish right from wrong. That is why you were advised to study your Bible and find out yourself. Although me personally I disagree with that. My advise to you is to find, with the help from God, a proper congregation/church and get taught the Word of God. The internet is by no means the proper place for one to learn the Word of God. There are lots of different doctrines on the net, also there are people there who try on purpose to deceive others, wolves in lamb's clothes. So you'd better join a church. GBU
I wouldn't call what I have, a garden. I have a few plants. I have land on the Gulf coast I wish I could get someone to put a garden there so I can get veggies.
When Adam sinned it was his imperfections manifesting itself.
Adam and Eve eyes were opened after they ate of the fruit. They were now able to see things that were there that they never seen before!
Is it possible that without the knowledge of good and evil sin is not imputed as we see in Romans 5:12-13 and John 9:41.
Let's take a closer look at Romans 5, being that it seems relevant to our discussion.
Romans 5:12-14 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
(For until the law sin was in the world: BUT SIN IS NOT IMPUTED WHEN THERE IS NO LAW. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
What do we inherit from Adam? Just his offence?
What about his nature before and after the fall?
I'm having trouble presenting this so let me give an example by way of a hypothetical scenario.
Let's imagine Adam and Eve had children before the fall, (eating of the fruit of the tree) and also children afterwards.
Would all of them inherit Adam's offense or just those born afterwards?
I believe they all would because Adam had a nature that was bound to fall.
One that was subject to sin.
As for Christ We've been over Matthew 4:1-11.
That wasn't a test to see if he would sin but rather to prove him.
It was to show he was who the Scripture say he was.
The Son of God.
And you are referring to Hebrews 4:15. My understanding of that is Christ "being in the flesh" he was able to relate to our testing but WASN'T ABLE to Succumb to the testing and sin.
I just thought I should mention to you that when you said that the bible says in Genesis 1:1 "in the beginning,GOD created the heavens and the earth," that actually, it says: In the beginning God created the heaven (singular) and the earth. The modern versions, which I believe are not Holy Ghost inspired like the KJB is, put an 's' implying plural heavens but the Holy Spirit wrote it as one heaven. God Bless :)
I was just reading Chris's response too you and I noticed he mentioned the Bereans in a positive way and I agree, however, this would be a perfect example of something you could use the internet for to look up the Bereans, unless you already know about them, and see how they compare to the word of God if they are a kind of people you would want to emulate. This is only a suggestion for you not instructions for you to obey. Only do it if you want to.
I would also like to recommend another site that is very helpful for studying. It's called Bible Hub except it's dot org not
dot com. This is just a suggestion. I hope you have a blessed day. God Bless :)
I guess you could say I am new, I lived my life doing anything and everything I wanted. I thought as long as I didn't hurt anyone things were fine. I cannot honestly tell you when or what happened, but I now know I was not living right. I am trying to learn and grow in my faith.
I like the way Gigi put it concerning Genesis 1:31.
"He made everything just the way he planned it".
Therefore he called it Good.
Including Satan and the Angels.
Good doesn't express behavior in these passages. It's accomplishing what was intended.
There is only one Good and that's God.
Adam shame and trying to cover his nakedness after his eyes were open to receive knowledge of Good and Evil testifies that he had a sense of awareness of his depravity and vulnerability. Not nudity.
If nudity being wrong was all he got out of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and that was sinful and valid then he wasn't made perfect. He didn't take clothes off, He was born Naked.
Adam hid himself from God because when his eyes were opened he saw himself with the knowledge he received from the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.
This Knowledge revealed to him that he wasn't Good. He's now realizes he's vulnerable.
Here's what he said; I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
This is in line with what nakedness means throughout the scripture.
Adam was a natural man, A empty vessel and naked.
How do you define sinless nature? Isn't it "someone's NATURAL reaction to not sin.
How could one with a sinless nature sin?
Or one with a sinful nature "NOT" sin?
I would define Adam as one being imperfect and one that cannot please God.
There is nothing written of him to determine what he was like before the fall.
However he's flesh and there's lust in the flesh and has no ability it or desire to please God.
Hello GIGI, likewise it is good to hear from you! We are well and our daughter is now married! We are going to fly this week the Lord willing to MS and see the new home and be part of our Church's wedding reception for them over-there. How is the beautiful PW this summer! I have heard it was a lot nicer there than here. :)
My thought continued. The first Adam left the garden in sin but with a promise and by mercy there would be a washing of regeneration and a renewing of the Holy Ghost in due time to those whom would believe.
The eternal plan of God before creation was to create humanity in His image and to be their God alone. In this plan, He also allowed for the fall of Satan and his angels and the fall of man because He planned the best way for humanity to have the best fellowship with Himself is through the incarnation of the Son who would never sin yet die in the place for all who were to come to God through Jesus, the second Adam. The first Adam was purposed to come to know his need for a Savior as all of us who believe have come to know that our sin deems us unworthy of fellowship with God and that we need God to do what He deems to be the wisest, most gracious, most merciful, most perfect way to redeem us. And that is in the incarnated Son who became man, though eternally God, to live the life Adam and none of us could live without Christ. He was to be our perfectly righteous Savior and perfect Sacrifice for our sins at the cross. His resurrection to life from death demonstrates the accomplished work of salvation was only through Him, Jesus our Lord.
Adam died because He sinned. Jesus died because Adam sinned.
Adam failed to obey one simple command of God. Jesus obeyed the Father in every way and circumstance in His earthly life even with the devil tempting Him with every device and angle of temptation he could devise. Adam hide from God because of His shame for sinning. Jesus cried out to God on the cross, enduring its shame, experiencing the forsakenness of the Father on our behalf. God sought out Adam in the garden to bring him to repentance and to promise the Redeemer to come. God laid on Jesus the penalty for all of our sin and Jesus, as the divine Son, experienced death in his humanity. And then Jesus was raised back to life to live forevermore as our Savior. Adam died and will be resurrected in the coming of Jesus at the end of the age.
Jesus is always righteous and Adam needed to be clothed in His righteousness.
" And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost."
How does faith come to man? "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God./ But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world." The babe leaped in the womb of his mother just as Lazarus who was dead for some four days heard the voice. "Lazarus, come forth./And he that was dead came forth"( John 11:43-44). Similarly John hears the number spoken in his vision,(Re.9:16). Faith is the lingua franca between the two worlds framed by the word of God and this holds for creature two worlds simultaneously, the heavenly places and our physical world Faith is the language between them, "Deep calleth unto deep"(Ps.42:7). Israel being disobedient and gainsaying people were like ostrich their head buried in sand. So are those who refuse faith on insufficient grounds. The babe heard the salutation of Mary and leaped in her womb which is the works we are concerned with. If we say Jesus Christ is the light of the world our works being good witnesses for him establish the quality of our faith. In the case of Paul he believed in the body prepared of God so he would walk not by sight but but by faith. St Paul did not go by appearances nor take things at its face value. " For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life./Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit." (2 Co.5:4-5)
"For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead./And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again."(vv.14-15)
I thought your question about purgatory was serious and valid. And I agree with others that your main source of spiritual knowledge is the Bible. But I do not agree with being discouraged to from seeking information from other sources. The internet, or back in my day, encyclopedias, etc were good sources to get information and then compare that information to what the Bible says. I do this all the time.
AS to purgatory, you will not find any information on it in the Bible because it is not mentioned there. That is where getting information like Chris gave you helps. He did not get this information from the Bible. Nor did I. I learned some about purgatory from Catholic friends. And I sought more information from the internet. You can do that too by posing the topic in ways like:
What is the teaching about purgatory? Is purgatory a biblical doctrine? What is wrong about the concept of purgatory?
I would start there.
I have noticed you come on here from time to time. I hope that you continue to do so. I am sorry that you have been offended by the way some have responded to you. We all come here with positive and negative experiences from our past experiences with various sects of Christianity. My hope for you is that you stay with us here, continue to ask questions, and that you are able to access all the information you need from various sources. The comments of people on here are one source outside of the Bible, So is information that you can find on sites on the internet or in books.
I was wondering, are you new to the faith in Jesus?
I will pray for you that God will guide you to truth concerning the questions you have. He is faithful because He wants all believers to know the truth. Most of this truth we find in the Bible. But some truth is found in other sources because the topic is not mentioned in the Bible, such as purgatory. Keep seeking. the Holy Spirit is with you.
Yes, do can some of what I am able to grow. I do not have a big garden. Just 4 raised beds. But I don't grow a great variety of vegies, just plant a few varieties and that way I get a big enough harvest of, say, tomatoes, or beans, or peppers. I have lettuce and salad greens growing in one bed. It is yielding more than we can eat. So, some goes to the food bank and some to people I know who do not have garden beds. I loved to see the progression from turning the dirt, to planting the seeds, to watering, then sprouting and then the abundance. It is an amazing process that God governs, even though we contribute to it in smaller ways.
Kind of like our daily walk with our Lord. He gives us life, causes us to grow and yield spiritual fruit and governs our days. But we have a responsibility to cooperate and obey him in all things. To neglect to do so is like failing to water our vegetable garden or pull out the weeds that take away from the good plants.
I believe I heard you say you live in the south. is that correct?
Dear Tdianne: I am very sorry if I have offended you in any way I only meant to encourage you, like the others who responded to you. My concern, since you mentioned purgatory was to caution you about the false doctrines of Catholicism and encourage you to go to God's word for your answers. Please don't be discouraged and stay with us. We would love for you to ask questions and discuss with us God Bless :)
"And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus." God chose a Hellenized name for his son, that itself speaks the core value of his Advent. He is a sign, meaning the word concerning has been said and it is beyond recall. God's calling and gifts are irrevocable. A body has he prepared for him and in him whosoever chosen shall have body quality of which to say the least is heavenly. It is a spiritual body. For those who are planted after our likeness it shall be a glorious body. There is a difference. "And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly."(1 Co.15:49) In his humanity he tasted death for everyone. So his name is Hellenized and not Joshua, As the Word he was with God before Abraham. "Before Abraham was, I am". God had besides made him After the order of Melchizedek. "The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek."Ps.110:3 TheSpirit uses "Forever" which tag is to establish His kingship and Priesthood is independent of what is accorded to David. In v.32 according to his humanity he is the son of David. So our glorious body is set for everlasting to everlasting. His ministry of reconciliation covered both Jews and the Gentiles. Hence this Hellenic name. At his crucifixion the superscription on the cross was also written, " and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin."( John 19:20)
For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren."(He.2:11)
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David/And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end." An indication of this we see in Re.Ch.6:2 "and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer." He is seen in Re.19:16
Thank you for your reply.
See, we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: But we speak the wisdom of GOD in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which GOD ordained before the world unto our glory, which none of the princes of this world knew. For what man knows the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of GOD knows no man, but the Spirit of GOD. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of GOD; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of GOD.
But GOD has revealed them unto us by His Spirit: for the Spirit searches all things, yea, the deep things of GOD. 1Corinthians 2:6-16.
GOD BLESS
You meant angles or angels?
If angels I am talking of the same was refered by Peter Apostle - 2Peter 2:4 and Jude 1:6
Thank you for your reply.
In my view,according to the Word of GOD,there are the 1st,2nd and 3rd heavens,and the heaven of the heavens.
What does the Word of GOD say?
Moses said: Deuteronomy 10:14KJV->Behold,the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the Lord's thy GOD, the earth also, with all that therein is.
1Kings 8:27KJV->27 But will GOD indeed dwell on the earth?behold,the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded?
Psalms 33:6KJV->By the Word of the Lord were the HEAVENS made;and all the host of them by the breath of His mouth.
Psalms 148:4KJV-4 Praise him,ye heavens of heavens,and ye waters that be above the heavens.
Job 14:12->12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.
When Scriptures say heaven(singular) they refer to a specific heaven, i.e. to one of the four heavens GOD created, understand? The problem is to discern which of them Scriptures refer.
So,when you intend to post a message,you should FIRST to judge if your message fits with the Word of GOD or not,and if not fit with Scriptures, don't post it. Paul Apostle,was caught to the 3rd heaven, once 3rd heaven exists, also exist the 1st and 2nd heavens.
Re.12:12-Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them( Ephesians 1:3-8). Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea!for the Devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has but a short time.
Furthermore,you said the modern versions are not Holy Ghost inspired like the KJB is,put an 's' implying plural heavens but the Holy Spirit wrote it as one heaven. Now,to say that the modern versions of the Word of GOD are not inspired by the Holy Spirit is a serious error, in fact what you wrote was/is not inspired by the Holy Spirit,in fact you need to rethink the things you wrote for good to them that love GOD,to them who are the called according to His purpose.
"The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life." Job 33:4 KJV .This verse shows that Life is good and it includes spiritual life as it is made in the likeness of the Spirit of God as everything was in the beginning.
Adam was placed in the garden by God the Father to dress and keep it. We know this by the scripture. We also know by scripture that Adam and his wife Eve did not remain in the state that they were made. When they became naked to each other they were also naked to God the Father and they knew it and tried to hide it.
Adam and his wife Eve were predestinated to the first estate of being made very good physically, emotionally and spiritually for the purpose of dressing and keeping the garden and I would believe as humble children of God. God loved them. It is important to believe that God placed them in the garden himself and that they did not enter on their own. With their free will with power they allowed themselves to be deceived and left this estate and garden in unbelief which is resistance and sin before God the Father.
Now thinking of Titus chapter 3:4-5 the kindness and love of God (the Father) our Savior appeared toward man. This new covering of love with skins and a Promise happened in the garden. His mercy was their salvation. Mercy was free of the works of righteousness which we have done and they too.
Even by faith and hope Adam and Eve went to sleep in their own works of righteousness. We can hope that this covering of Mercy carried them to the second Adam our Christ whose blood is our true covering for our own sin, as we pray by faith for ourselves and every neighbor.
God bless our meditation.
Here we have Ezekiel referencing the Entity behind The king of Tyrus.
Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
THOU HAST BEEN IN EDEN THE GARDEN OF GOD; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Also see Isaiah 14:12-17.
When did all this happen here in Isaiah?
Clearly in Ezekiel he's not talking about the King of Tyrus, when have he been in Eden, "The Garden or God "?
When we view the creation in Genesis chapters 1 and 2 where do we fit this in a six day creation?
The number of Man is 6.
The number 7 is completeness.
Man is incomplete without God.
I believe you see this in the structure of the menorah.
We have the tendency to believe Man can get his act together if his conditions were to change and there were no outside influence from Satan.
We just need a great economy and time to evolve into Holy people as long as we're under the watch and providence of our great ruler, with even better odds than Adam and Eve had in the Garden or Israel had in the wilderness.
Atleast that would seem to be the case if Satan was bound.
No more evil influence from that deceiver!
Well scripture tells us that the nations of the WORLD will have just that.
Here's just a few verses
Isaiah 30:19-21.
Isaiah 65:17-24.
Amos 9:11-15.
Zechariah 14:16-19.
Revelation 5:10.
Isaiah 2:2-4.
This will happen here on earth during the Millennium when Satan is bound.
And when he's loosed he will deceive the nations again.
Revelation 20:1-8.
Note: This is not the Church!
More on Satan and Eden next.
God bless.
I'm finally settled in for the night and thanks again for responding!
I viewed your thoughts and I have a few things I would like you to consider.
I portioned them out and would like to address them separately.
1) You stated; We know they were made very good as part of everything made in the sixth day. I would believe that having been made very good they had a covering at least by the hand of God himself by His image.
Having been placed in the garden to dress and keep it was also good and they had all that they needed.
My thoughts;
"When God says that it was good he's not talking about Adam's spiritual condition! God mentioned the same thing about the light, the seas, the grass and the herb, the cattle, the creeping things, the two great lights to rule over the day and night, and on and on until he finished his creation.
As for setting him in the garden of Eden. Well that didn't work out.
2) Continuing your quote;
"And yet nakedness began by listening to a fellow creature rather than being obedient to the Word of the Father himself.
My thoughts;
You said nakedness began by listening to a fellow creature.
However, In Genesis 2:25
Adam was naked BEFORE he listened to the voice of his wife.
Also Adam wasn't deceived by Satan according to 1 Timothy 2:14.
Adam made the decision to disobey God!
The decision process comes before the act.
He wasn't created perfect and the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil opened his eyes to that.
There's only one perfect being to walk here on earth and that's God himself manifested in the flesh!
God bless.
This "gap" theory is a possibility as the first verses of Genesis leave some room for such speculation such as this. But throughout the whole Bible there is not any account of this happening, who may have been involved, or how events unfolded. So, thanks for the mention of this. But as for me, I can wait until I am with Jesus to find out if this really happened. I leave it as an open idea for now.
I will continue to pray for your granddaughter, her parents, and your family. God only knows all of what the reason He has allowed this to come into your sweet one. But nothing is impossible for Him, so we pray for healing and miracles for her.
Well, we all on here are all seeking God and His ways in His Holy Word. So you are in good company. Giannis has advised you well to pray for God to lead you to a church fellowship with good sound biblical teaching and a loving environment to grow in. That is the way the church was fist established. Believers meeting together to worship, hear what the apostles and leaders preached and to share life together in godly fellowship and deep love and concern for one another. I will pray for this for you as well.
I, too, think that the wilderness interactions of Jesus and Satan were not so much of a test for Jesus to sin, but a declaration of Jesus proving He IS the divine Son of God and therefore, Satan's governor, ruler, and authority. Jesus knew going into the temptation that He would not sin just as He had not sinned in all the temptations He had faced with growing up and in His early adulthood. He knew who He was, even at the age of 12. He knew He could not sin, but His humanity could be tempted and, as the divine Son was the only Person in Jesus, having both a divine and human nature, but only one Person, He knew He knew He would obey His Father and not sin. He also knew what the devil was going to tempt Him with, as He was divine and omniscient. He also knew He would triumph over Satan in this encounter and Satan would leave Him as a defeated foe.
The Scriptures He quoted to Satan are the words He inspired to be written by Moses, David, and the prophets. He is he author of all Scriptures, so He was quoting these Scriptures not just to defend against the temptation and not just to show honor to His Father, but to show that He is to be honored as His Father is honored, too. The devil was not to think that physical things can override the nourishment of Scripture spoken into existence by Jesus, nor was the devil to test God, whether the Father, the Son, or the Holy Spirit, nor was the devil to worship anyone but the true God, who stood before him in the wilderness; Jesus being God int he flesh and the fullness of the Father, Holy Spirit, and Son dwelled in Him in perfection.
Thanks for bringing this up. Sometimes we think of Jesus as being lower than the Father or lesser, but He is true God just as the Father and Holy Spirit. This kind of segways into my next post on who God is: He is Victor!
This a KJB site where one can read the Bible. But this site does not belong to a particular church. So the people who participate in discussions here are from different churches having sometimes completely opposite beliefs about certain things in the Bible. And since you are a new believer you can not distinguish right from wrong. That is why you were advised to study your Bible and find out yourself. Although me personally I disagree with that. My advise to you is to find, with the help from God, a proper congregation/church and get taught the Word of God. The internet is by no means the proper place for one to learn the Word of God. There are lots of different doctrines on the net, also there are people there who try on purpose to deceive others, wolves in lamb's clothes. So you'd better join a church. GBU
Yes, I live in Georgia.
I wouldn't call what I have, a garden. I have a few plants. I have land on the Gulf coast I wish I could get someone to put a garden there so I can get veggies.
We'll see.
Blessings.
Perhaps I should know this but, when you talk about the "population in Eden" are you talking about other angles?
God Bless :)
When Adam sinned it was his imperfections manifesting itself.
Adam and Eve eyes were opened after they ate of the fruit. They were now able to see things that were there that they never seen before!
Is it possible that without the knowledge of good and evil sin is not imputed as we see in Romans 5:12-13 and John 9:41.
Let's take a closer look at Romans 5, being that it seems relevant to our discussion.
Romans 5:12-14 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
(For until the law sin was in the world: BUT SIN IS NOT IMPUTED WHEN THERE IS NO LAW. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
What do we inherit from Adam? Just his offence?
What about his nature before and after the fall?
I'm having trouble presenting this so let me give an example by way of a hypothetical scenario.
Let's imagine Adam and Eve had children before the fall, (eating of the fruit of the tree) and also children afterwards.
Would all of them inherit Adam's offense or just those born afterwards?
I believe they all would because Adam had a nature that was bound to fall.
One that was subject to sin.
As for Christ We've been over Matthew 4:1-11.
That wasn't a test to see if he would sin but rather to prove him.
It was to show he was who the Scripture say he was.
The Son of God.
And you are referring to Hebrews 4:15. My understanding of that is Christ "being in the flesh" he was able to relate to our testing but WASN'T ABLE to Succumb to the testing and sin.
God bless.
I just thought I should mention to you that when you said that the bible says in Genesis 1:1 "in the beginning,GOD created the heavens and the earth," that actually, it says: In the beginning God created the heaven (singular) and the earth. The modern versions, which I believe are not Holy Ghost inspired like the KJB is, put an 's' implying plural heavens but the Holy Spirit wrote it as one heaven. God Bless :)
I was just reading Chris's response too you and I noticed he mentioned the Bereans in a positive way and I agree, however, this would be a perfect example of something you could use the internet for to look up the Bereans, unless you already know about them, and see how they compare to the word of God if they are a kind of people you would want to emulate. This is only a suggestion for you not instructions for you to obey. Only do it if you want to.
I would also like to recommend another site that is very helpful for studying. It's called Bible Hub except it's dot org not
dot com. This is just a suggestion. I hope you have a blessed day. God Bless :)
thanks to all of you for answering my questions
I like the way Gigi put it concerning Genesis 1:31.
"He made everything just the way he planned it".
Therefore he called it Good.
Including Satan and the Angels.
Good doesn't express behavior in these passages. It's accomplishing what was intended.
There is only one Good and that's God.
Adam shame and trying to cover his nakedness after his eyes were open to receive knowledge of Good and Evil testifies that he had a sense of awareness of his depravity and vulnerability. Not nudity.
If nudity being wrong was all he got out of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and that was sinful and valid then he wasn't made perfect. He didn't take clothes off, He was born Naked.
Adam hid himself from God because when his eyes were opened he saw himself with the knowledge he received from the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.
This Knowledge revealed to him that he wasn't Good. He's now realizes he's vulnerable.
Here's what he said; I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
This is in line with what nakedness means throughout the scripture.
Adam was a natural man, A empty vessel and naked.
How do you define sinless nature? Isn't it "someone's NATURAL reaction to not sin.
How could one with a sinless nature sin?
Or one with a sinful nature "NOT" sin?
I would define Adam as one being imperfect and one that cannot please God.
There is nothing written of him to determine what he was like before the fall.
However he's flesh and there's lust in the flesh and has no ability it or desire to please God.
See part 2.
My thought continued. The first Adam left the garden in sin but with a promise and by mercy there would be a washing of regeneration and a renewing of the Holy Ghost in due time to those whom would believe.
Carleton
So good to hear from you.
The eternal plan of God before creation was to create humanity in His image and to be their God alone. In this plan, He also allowed for the fall of Satan and his angels and the fall of man because He planned the best way for humanity to have the best fellowship with Himself is through the incarnation of the Son who would never sin yet die in the place for all who were to come to God through Jesus, the second Adam. The first Adam was purposed to come to know his need for a Savior as all of us who believe have come to know that our sin deems us unworthy of fellowship with God and that we need God to do what He deems to be the wisest, most gracious, most merciful, most perfect way to redeem us. And that is in the incarnated Son who became man, though eternally God, to live the life Adam and none of us could live without Christ. He was to be our perfectly righteous Savior and perfect Sacrifice for our sins at the cross. His resurrection to life from death demonstrates the accomplished work of salvation was only through Him, Jesus our Lord.
Adam died because He sinned. Jesus died because Adam sinned.
Adam failed to obey one simple command of God. Jesus obeyed the Father in every way and circumstance in His earthly life even with the devil tempting Him with every device and angle of temptation he could devise. Adam hide from God because of His shame for sinning. Jesus cried out to God on the cross, enduring its shame, experiencing the forsakenness of the Father on our behalf. God sought out Adam in the garden to bring him to repentance and to promise the Redeemer to come. God laid on Jesus the penalty for all of our sin and Jesus, as the divine Son, experienced death in his humanity. And then Jesus was raised back to life to live forevermore as our Savior. Adam died and will be resurrected in the coming of Jesus at the end of the age.
Jesus is always righteous and Adam needed to be clothed in His righteousness.
" And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost."
How does faith come to man? "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God./ But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world." The babe leaped in the womb of his mother just as Lazarus who was dead for some four days heard the voice. "Lazarus, come forth./And he that was dead came forth"( John 11:43-44). Similarly John hears the number spoken in his vision,(Re.9:16). Faith is the lingua franca between the two worlds framed by the word of God and this holds for creature two worlds simultaneously, the heavenly places and our physical world Faith is the language between them, "Deep calleth unto deep"(Ps.42:7). Israel being disobedient and gainsaying people were like ostrich their head buried in sand. So are those who refuse faith on insufficient grounds. The babe heard the salutation of Mary and leaped in her womb which is the works we are concerned with. If we say Jesus Christ is the light of the world our works being good witnesses for him establish the quality of our faith. In the case of Paul he believed in the body prepared of God so he would walk not by sight but but by faith. St Paul did not go by appearances nor take things at its face value. " For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life./Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit." (2 Co.5:4-5)
"For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead./And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again."(vv.14-15)
I thought your question about purgatory was serious and valid. And I agree with others that your main source of spiritual knowledge is the Bible. But I do not agree with being discouraged to from seeking information from other sources. The internet, or back in my day, encyclopedias, etc were good sources to get information and then compare that information to what the Bible says. I do this all the time.
AS to purgatory, you will not find any information on it in the Bible because it is not mentioned there. That is where getting information like Chris gave you helps. He did not get this information from the Bible. Nor did I. I learned some about purgatory from Catholic friends. And I sought more information from the internet. You can do that too by posing the topic in ways like:
What is the teaching about purgatory? Is purgatory a biblical doctrine? What is wrong about the concept of purgatory?
I would start there.
I have noticed you come on here from time to time. I hope that you continue to do so. I am sorry that you have been offended by the way some have responded to you. We all come here with positive and negative experiences from our past experiences with various sects of Christianity. My hope for you is that you stay with us here, continue to ask questions, and that you are able to access all the information you need from various sources. The comments of people on here are one source outside of the Bible, So is information that you can find on sites on the internet or in books.
I was wondering, are you new to the faith in Jesus?
I will pray for you that God will guide you to truth concerning the questions you have. He is faithful because He wants all believers to know the truth. Most of this truth we find in the Bible. But some truth is found in other sources because the topic is not mentioned in the Bible, such as purgatory. Keep seeking. the Holy Spirit is with you.
Yes, do can some of what I am able to grow. I do not have a big garden. Just 4 raised beds. But I don't grow a great variety of vegies, just plant a few varieties and that way I get a big enough harvest of, say, tomatoes, or beans, or peppers. I have lettuce and salad greens growing in one bed. It is yielding more than we can eat. So, some goes to the food bank and some to people I know who do not have garden beds. I loved to see the progression from turning the dirt, to planting the seeds, to watering, then sprouting and then the abundance. It is an amazing process that God governs, even though we contribute to it in smaller ways.
Kind of like our daily walk with our Lord. He gives us life, causes us to grow and yield spiritual fruit and governs our days. But we have a responsibility to cooperate and obey him in all things. To neglect to do so is like failing to water our vegetable garden or pull out the weeds that take away from the good plants.
I believe I heard you say you live in the south. is that correct?
I have a very small area I tried to grow some tomatoes and peppers but it didn't go well. Not enough sunlight. To many trees.
We did get one salad out of it.
Blessings
They were not clothed with Christ prior to their sinning"
Well stated!
Our righteousness is always described as a garment. Jesus is described as being clothed in light.
God bless.
"And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus." God chose a Hellenized name for his son, that itself speaks the core value of his Advent. He is a sign, meaning the word concerning has been said and it is beyond recall. God's calling and gifts are irrevocable. A body has he prepared for him and in him whosoever chosen shall have body quality of which to say the least is heavenly. It is a spiritual body. For those who are planted after our likeness it shall be a glorious body. There is a difference. "And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly."(1 Co.15:49) In his humanity he tasted death for everyone. So his name is Hellenized and not Joshua, As the Word he was with God before Abraham. "Before Abraham was, I am". God had besides made him After the order of Melchizedek. "The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek."Ps.110:3 TheSpirit uses "Forever" which tag is to establish His kingship and Priesthood is independent of what is accorded to David. In v.32 according to his humanity he is the son of David. So our glorious body is set for everlasting to everlasting. His ministry of reconciliation covered both Jews and the Gentiles. Hence this Hellenic name. At his crucifixion the superscription on the cross was also written, " and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin."( John 19:20)
For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren."(He.2:11)
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David/And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end." An indication of this we see in Re.Ch.6:2 "and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer." He is seen in Re.19:16